Honest Christian Conversations
A weekly podcast dealing with cultural and spiritual issues within the Christian faith.
Honest Christian Conversations
How To Be Succesful In Your Parenting
Swimming against the cultural current while raising faithful children requires intentional discipleship and vulnerability—something Pastor Josh Poteet knows well. From his experiences as a father and church leader, Josh unpacks powerful principles that transform how we approach the parenting journey.
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Are you parenting against the current? If you aren't sure what that means, you're gonna wanna pay attention to today's episode with Josh Poteet, the pastor of 180 Life Church in West Hartford, connecticut, which, fun fact, is not really that far away from me. I thought that was cool once I found that out. This episode we talk about parenting and all the stuff that goes into how to parent well so that we can leave a good legacy for our children and help them grow into good, healthy individuals in their future. You're going to love this episode. You're going to get so much out of it, so stay tuned till the very end. He has some great wisdom for the men, because this is during the tribute to masculinity that I'm doing during the summer. So men, don't tune out towards the end. You're going to get encouraged. Thank you for tuning in. I'm Anna Murby. This is Honest Christian Conversations Before the episode starts. Make sure you follow the show so you never miss another episode.
Speaker 1:Josh, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today to discuss with me parenting, family and fatherhood during this Tribute to Masculinity. I want to discuss your book, which I think is a very good title Parenting Against the Current. The title pretty much sums it up for anyone who knows the struggles that we go through as parents nowadays as parents to figure out how to work against what they're being taught in public schools, colleges and just by their friends or the things that they watch and I'm guessing your book discusses all of those things and I'm very excited to talk to you about that. But before we do that, I want to let everyone know that there is a fun fact Josh and I live in the same state. We are not really that far from each other, which I think is really cool. We both live in Connecticut.
Speaker 1:You did make it sound like you were far from everything when we were talking about it, I do feel like we don't have a lot in my area where I live, other than a couple casinos. But yeah, it's not like a super remote area I live in, but we are probably about an hour away from each other, which I think is so cool. How long have you been pastoring in Connecticut?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm pretty new to Connecticut. I grew up in Florida, was pastoring in Texas before this for a while, so I've only been in Connecticut for about two years. So I'm still trying to figure out what to do with this white stuff that shows up during the winter. Our family is just just. We don't know what to do. It's exciting and at the same time we're like we are wildly ill equipped for this, which is kind of my MO anyway, so yeah, I don't mind the snow.
Speaker 1:I like it at night. It's peaceful, it's quiet, it's beautiful coming down and I don't mind shoveling it. People and I don't mind shoveling it. People always think I'm weird for that. I come from California. We didn't have snow where I lived either, and, yeah, I don't mind it.
Speaker 2:So it's a cardio. Yeah, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. This winter I learned a pretty valuable lesson it was my first time experiencing wet snow. I didn't know there were all different varieties of snow.
Speaker 1:The wet snow is the worst.
Speaker 2:And I let it freeze. So there I am, trying to like free up my driveway from all this ice that's on it with like a pitchfork trying to just jab into it. It was awesome. I'm stronger for it.
Speaker 1:Lessons learned for next time, and you can pass these lessons on to your children at some point how old are your children right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I have a two-year-old son and a seven-year-old daughter, so we're thick in it. We have kind of a nice spread where our daughter is thriving. She has this fire for the Lord that it doesn't even make sense for someone her age to be on fire in the way she is. We just switched over to private school because her mom's teaching in private school. But last year her teacher went up to her and was like hey, you can't talk about Jesus anymore, which I told her. I said listen, you break that rule all day Like you preach the word. But that was also attention, I'm like man, she's so young, I don't need the world speaking into her in that way, especially because she's with them for eight hours. So that was a big shift. And then Ezra is our two-year-old son, who is an absolute wrecking ball Like this guy.
Speaker 1:Sounds like my two-year-old he throws things, he kicks things and, yeah, he thinks it's funny.
Speaker 2:It's wild If it is climbable or tall, doesn't even need to be climbable. If it's tall, he's going to do whatever he can to get on top of it. Yeah, we are already budgeting for ER visits at this point. We just know, we just know.
Speaker 1:We should do that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's the same, they sound exactly the same, and your seven-year-old kind of sounds like my eight-year-old. She asked me one time she's like Mom, does Jesus love Satan? What's going to happen to me if I get this wrong? Or she talks about she wants to die because she wants to go to heaven and she wants to see Jesus. She's just got such childlike faith that I'm like I wish I had what you have, this hunger, this desire to know things on a deep level. I wish I had the answers for her. I don't always, but I'm coming out of a really legalistic style of relationship, so I'm still trying to figure out what it is exactly that I believe. So her questions do help me with that, because she gets me thinking and, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:So kids are the future and that's why we need to guard them against the lies and the deception that are coming at them. Like you said with your daughter, they were telling her she can't talk about Jesus anymore. What, yeah, yeah, you can. It's called free speech. You can do that. They can't tell you you can't pray at school. My son has told me I'm not allowed to pray at school. I was like well, you can do it in your head. I'm not allowed to pray. At school I was like, well, you could do it in your head. They don't know you're doing it, they can't tell you you can't do this. So how do we teach our children as they start making their own decisions? Because my son's 13 now, so he's going to have to at some point, he's going to have to stand up for his own faith. I've been telling him you can't ride on my coattails to heaven. It's not going to happen. That's not how it works. You have to make your relationship your own. So how would parents steward their kids so that they can do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's the tension, because I have found that and this is from my own experience, but it's also limited, right, I'm up to seven years old. It's also pastoring other families and walking beside a ton of other people and learning from people who have just crushed it for the kingdom in their families. And I would say the challenge is that as soon as I hit that parental sweet spot where, oh, I'm crushing it, I figured out my five-year-old. I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:They level up and I have to re-figure out this whole thing. So part of it is, I would say, for parents. If we're being hyper-practical. It's a chapter in my book really kind of focuses on needs based parenting. It's this idea that the way that I parent is actually meant to meet my child where they are. It's this whole idea of identify where they are, figure out what they need to grow, meet them there and then lead them to what's better. And if I'm doing that intentionally, I'm going to find out that my role as a parent is going to shift even more than their role as a child, meaning that when I've got a two-year-old, I'm teaching. Right, that's my primary job. It's not a whole lot of facilitating, it's not a whole lot of having them do the work. It's I do, you watch. But as they get older, it's I do you help or you do I help. And then they get into that teen area.
Speaker 2:And this is where we get into trouble, I think, because parental identity can be really there's a gravity to it where, man, I want to be needed by my kids. But actually victory in discipling your kids intentionally is that they don't need you. We still want them to want to be around, we want them to enjoy us, but they should be independent, they should be able to thrive and they also should feel freedom to fail. And so it's really that loosening of the grip that some of us kind of cling on to a little bit and just be like hold on, I'm a coach now. My role has shifted. It's you do? I watch at this point, which means that I'm on the sideline cheering you on and when you fall or you score the touchdown, whatever it is, I'm there to help debrief it with you and we're going to talk through it, and when you do fall, I'll be a soft place for you to land, that we can get back up and keep moving forward.
Speaker 2:I think that's sometimes where we can miss. It is because of the busyness that we're in, because we're tired. There's a whole current that our kids are in and we're in a different current and just kind of pulls us away from each other and realizing, hey, hold on, I need to actually infuse intentionality wherever I am. I love what you were talking about about. It's all about my walk with Jesus, right, it's all about relationship with him. Even that idea of heaven and hell, I always I don't push against the idea because those are real, those are real places, but we get focused on the destination and that's actually not the point. The point is the relationship. I don't win heaven, I win jesus. Heaven is thrown in yeah, it's a bonus the hell is that?
Speaker 2:it's not jesus. It's a choice, the relational choice that we get to make, and when we intentionally infuse our relationship with jesus into walking beside kids, it invites them into it and they ride your coattails for a season that's part of it. When I was a student pastor, kids came in and they showed up for their parents and they carried faith for their parents and they prayed because of their parents, and yet that wasn't the end game. Like a parent's faith was never designed to sustain their kids. It's a starting point.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so there's a lot in that. There's a lot of practical things that we can do, but I think step one that I always go to is I can only lead someone to where I am. So step one is how's my walk with Jesus? How am I doing? There's a Jewish phrase may you be covered in the dust of your rabbi? Am I covered in his dust? Or am I so far away where I'm? Yeah, I know that guy, but I'm really kind of just Jesus adjacent, I'm not with him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's very wise and yeah, it's profound. Are you covered in his dust? Are you that close to him that when he's walking, you collect the dust from his feet? That's a very powerful metaphor for how close we need to be to God. I like what you were saying about how kids need to feel that it's okay to fail. They don't get that a lot. I mean, look at the participation trophies was a thing.
Speaker 1:That was a controversy at one point in my life when my daughter was doing soccer. They tried to give her a participation trophy and I told them no, I said she's not getting one, and there was a lot of people who were. They applauded me for it. But I wanted to teach my kids that you don't get things just to get things. You get them because you earn them. And if they don't learn how to fail, then when they do fail, how are they going to react? And at home is a safe environment. They should feel comfortable that if they fail at something, you're not going to fly off the handle and start yelling at them. You're not going to browbeat them, push them down further, but you're going to help them figure out how to do better next time. Because we aren't perfect. We parents are not perfect.
Speaker 1:It's not like we have it all together and we don't fail. We fail all the time and I think that's why they need to see us apologize to them if we've wronged them. There's so many people out there who don't want to do that. They go. I'm the parent. I don't have to. They just have to listen to me. That's not how it works. They want to respect you. You want them to respect you, so be someone they can respect. That means if you've done something against them, you need to apologize. We need to be willing to be that kind of vulnerable in front of them to show them you know I'm not perfect. I don't have it all together. I'm sorry that I yelled at you. They just need to see that we fail too, but that we don't stay in that failure, we don't get all shame and guilt ridden. We work through our problems in a healthy way, and then that will help them, as they get older, to do the same, and I wish more parents would do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have an entire chapter on this, because leading from vulnerability is essential and that's just. It's not even a parenting thing, this is just a leadership. Good leadership is going to do this. Well, I boast in my weakness that God can be all the more, and so for me, there's several ways that we can.
Speaker 2:The phrase that I like to use is fail forward.
Speaker 2:Even though I stumble, I'm going to fall in the right direction and take ground for the kingdom, and so one of those is my family should be the place that hears from me the words will you forgive me the most.
Speaker 2:My family should hear that more than anyone else, which means that if you go to my daughter right now and you said, hey, does your dad mess up, does he make mistakes, does he make bad choices, and how does he respond? She'll be like, yes, he does, and this is what it looks like, because she's hearing that from me and she's hearing that from mom and her mom is hearing that from me as well. Like I need to model that, because when I mess up to my bride in front of my kids, my son is learning how he should treat a woman and my daughter is learning how a man should treat her, which means that, yes, I'm going to mess up, she's not going to find somebody who's perfect. But when that happens, I want her to see that my response time is really quick, to own my part, to seek forgiveness and to walk that out in a way that's God honoring. Our kids are watching. They're learning from the way that we navigate this stuff.
Speaker 2:A couple other things that we could do to intentionally fail forward. I would say every single believer in Christ has a testimony where God took us from rags to riches. He took us from our brokenness, and it could be. I like to say you're either a recovered Pharisee or a recovered prodigal. It's either you have to be convinced that you need Jesus because your life isn't that messy, or you lit your life on fire. That was the path that I chose. I lit my life on fire and then I said well, you know what? I would like to not be in this furnace and get burned right now. And so I started seeking, trying to figure out who God was.
Speaker 2:Regardless of what your story is, there is power in that story. God has allowed you to have that testimony that you can proclaim his name in beautiful ways. Growing up in my house, there was a phrase that I heard often, because I would ask about faith and I wasn't raised really in a Christian home, and so I would ask about God and what that looked like, and the response was well, that's personal. That's personal, son, and they were right. It is personal, but personal doesn't mean private.
Speaker 2:My relationship with Jesus is deeply personal, and yet my kids need to see that part of my life and they need to see what he's done Now. Caveat it needs to be age appropriate right, I can't just blast my kid with things that they can't carry.
Speaker 2:By the grace of God, I'm 13 years, sober, that's not my own doing. That's what he brought me out of. And yet alcoholism is not super seven-year-old safe. And so my daughter knows that God has redeemed and restored me and that dad made some wildly bad choices and didn't know Jesus back in the day. And as she gets older she's going to start knowing those details a little bit more, so you can share in full vulnerability without sharing all the details and doing it in a way that's appropriate.
Speaker 2:But too often we cover up, we protect, we mask up, we wall up because, truthfully, it's because we're protecting ourselves and I would say the measuring stick in your failure. So when you mess up, what do I share with my kids? The question shouldn't be how do I protect myself? It should be who am I protecting? And if you're protecting yourself, then put down your armor and walk this out with your family in the way that God's called you, to Seek forgiveness, share your testimony, walk through the things that you've messed up, and there are going to be times I would say they're the exception, not the rule where you are protecting them right.
Speaker 2:The alcohol is an example, my daughter knows I don't drink. She doesn't know the details, but she does know that dad royally screwed up his life for a while. She knows those things, but she doesn't know all of it. So that's what I would say. We can fail forward really, really well, or we can try to hide it, but the more you push stuff under the rug, the more you trip over the rug. And so I would just say let's move forward together and bring your family with you by owning your mistakes and being vulnerable and being honest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, does your book cover that from a male perspective? Because I think it's harder for men to admit when they've made mistakes, especially to their children, because they want to be seen as an authority figure, they want to be respected. They want their children to not necessarily know that they have things together, but they just don't want them to see their weaknesses. So does your book cover that, or do you just have wisdom to share about?
Speaker 2:that. So it does and it doesn't what I didn't do for the most part. There are a couple of times where I go dads, moms, but for the most part I try to keep it parents-minded. But I do dive into those gender dynamics Because there's a gravity to it, especially, like you're saying, for men. There's a movie Dwayne Johnson was in. I don't know if you've ever seen Hercules.
Speaker 1:No, it's terrible.
Speaker 2:Don't waste your time it wasn't good at all.
Speaker 2:But there's a scene in it that I like to bring up, that Hercules gets cut during a fight and his second in command puts something over him and says, hey, don't let them see you bleed. And that is the current of the world. Is, men, armor up, act tough, don't cry, don't bleed, don't show weakness. And that is the antithesis of the gospel. It is not that we have it together, it's that we didn't and that we couldn't, but he could and he did. So we accept the free gift that he offers us, and so for men and I think women can fall into it too.
Speaker 2:But I would agree with you this is very much leans towards our stumbling point. We view weakness as almost an insurrection of our authority. I make a mistake, I am a bad leader, and that's a lie from the enemy and we need to just call that what it is. What is actually true and I've experienced this in my own leadership, just in leading a church is when I mess up and I go to my staff member or someone in my church that I messed up with and I say, hey, I didn't respond the way that I should have, and usually it's not some huge thing, usually it's something small, I didn't think to get their opinion first, or?
Speaker 1:whatever.
Speaker 2:And hey, please forgive me, it wasn't my heart to make you feel uncared for, and at the same time, I recognize I could have been more intentional in this. That actually gives me credibility with them. It doesn't rob me of authority. It says, hey, josh genuinely cares about me and he's not a robot who's just saying things from the stage. And it also tells people and this is a challenge with lead pastoring, but parenting too is when I go on a stage or when I lead my family, automatically I get bumped up on a pedestal. People bring me to places that I should not be brought to, and my job is to as a good leader who is first a good follower of Jesus or at least I try. I need to break the stage.
Speaker 2:I need to break that platform that people bring me up on because, they need to see I'm human too, and our kids especially dads, need to hear this. If your kids don't ever see you mess up, they will think perfection is the target. And if perfection is the target. Shame will own your kids because they cannot reach it. Boom and so break the stage. Yeah, we have to be willing to bleed in front of our families, because if we don't, shame is going to have a hold of our heart. An ounce of shame fills a tiny heart and our kids were not built for shame.
Speaker 1:That's humbling right there. Whether you're a man or a woman, that's a humbling thought and it's absolutely true. It's like when you're a couple and you're fighting. There's certain fights maybe you shouldn't have in front of your kids, but at some point they need to see that tension between you two and see the results of you fixing it in a healthy way. Otherwise, they will not know how to do that in their own relationships. Obviously, if you're going to have a knockout drag out, throwing things at each other, they don't need to see that. Nobody needs to see that you shouldn't be doing that. They need to see what a healthy argument is and how to either quell it from getting worse or, if it does get bad, they need to see how to fix it in a healthy way.
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Speaker 2:Yeah, it's definitely a balancing act, because this is not a statement that our kids are ready or should or really anybody should see everything that goes on in your marriage. That wouldn't be healthy or appropriate and at the same time, when our kids engage in conflict or witness the conflict we're engaging in, we are teaching something really, hopefully really intentional or if we're not being intentional, we're still teaching something. There was a conflict that happened a while back between me and Jenny and I don't even remember what it was about.
Speaker 2:It was a couple years ago and all I know is like we weren't yelling, we were having a conversation, but it was very tense. Our daughter was there and so she was kind of witnessing the whole thing. And I just remember I knew I was right, I knew I was the high ground. I was right. And so what happened was I proceeded to tell my wife how right I was, which is just a great strategy in any conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, women love that.
Speaker 2:Well, I think anybody loves it. It's me just high-roading of hey, you're clearly wrong, you need to get it together. And so I'm having this discussion very tense. She starts crying because I'm crushing it as a husband and a dad right now. And what happened was and this is what's neat, because when we see our kids engage in conflict, they also are teaching us something and it gives us insight on where they are. So my daughter, who is way more empathetic than I am, it is her superpower. She cares about people in ways that I'm jealous over the way that she is able to connect with people. And she goes over to her mom. Well, I'm just like in this whole just thesis on how incredible my argument is. She goes over and she starts checking on. Mom sees me still going like I've not broken stride, I am, I'm right. And Lilla comes over to me and quietly whispers in my ear. She goes, dad, mom's crying and it broke me in that moment. And this this would be the easy point for especially a dad to go. What are you talking about? Tiny human? This would be the easy point for especially a dad to go. What are you talking about? Tiny human? Mind your own business. This is not your fight. And, at the same time, what I saw my child do was she was fighting for what was true, good and just, and she was trying to lead me to what was beautiful. And so, rather than puffing up and going, hey, be quiet, you don't know what you're talking about. It was a. You absolutely know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Now I need to seek forgiveness from my bride and from my child for not modeling what Jesus did and this is a story she can still tell you, even though it was a couple of years ago because it had such an impact on her. I want my child to be bold. I want her to. When conflict comes up, I want her to address it rather than burying it for three years and having a hidden resentment. I also want, when someone comes up and starts gossiping with her, for her to say hey, you know, that's not a conversation I'm willing to actually take part in, but she's not going to be bold unless I let her be bold. And so there was victory right there in my amazing failure. And I don't even remember if I actually was right, I just know that I thought I was. But even if I was right that's the thing is, you can be right and wrong at the top of your lungs. You can be right in your logic and execute it so brokenly. And if I am covered in the dust of my rabbi, I'm going to be incredibly quick or at least my goal is to get quicker and quicker at seeking forgiveness and modeling that for my kids and giving them a playground in our home to practice.
Speaker 2:There is no or at least there should be no safer place for them to engage in what kingdom battle looks like than in the home. They should experience conflict, they should experience risk. They should experience sharing the gospel. Have your kids practice on you. They're not going to mess up your theology. It's beautiful. You practice on them. Honestly, that's a little off topic, but one of the reasons that I think God gives us those first two years where you can practice sharing the gospel with your kid and not mess up their theology. They've got no idea what you're saying. They don't speak English yet. But man, how much better is it for as a parent, I get ready before they're ready, so that when they're ready I'm not trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that you can learn so much from children. My kids have humbled me many times and we tell them you are allowed to call us out if you think we're being hypocritical. You just need to do it in a respectful way because we are still your parents. But we don't want to come across as hypocrites and they have no shame in their game of telling us what we are. And sometimes they throw it out to each other You're being a hypocrite. And then I have to say you know, you can't just keep throwing that out. You have to use it appropriately, otherwise it's going to lose its meaning. And then I use that as a moment to explain to them what that is. If they do end up telling us you're being a hypocrite, then we have in that moment. Are we going to own up to it and apologize, or are we going to just go off and let our pride take over?
Speaker 2:off and let our pride take over.
Speaker 1:Learning from children is a beautiful way God humbles us and disciplines us and works with us, because sometimes you don't learn any other way and all it was was just your daughter whispering to you something that you could have seen if you weren't trying to win the argument, but that's all it took was just a whisper from your child of what was right in front of you, and I love when God does things like that, just little moments I mean.
Speaker 1:When I was freed from my pornography addiction, he used my four-year-old son to get me to realize I had an addiction, because I had never called it that before, but the way he used my son really transformed my heart and broke me and I actually admitted that's what I had and from that moment on I started my journey of healing.
Speaker 1:From that I just love how he'll use our children. They're gifts from God, but I'm realizing they're gifts from God in so many ways other than just them being present in our lives. They're doing things behind the scenes on behalf of God that we wouldn't even know was from God if we did not take the time to process that. They're hearing from him in ways that we probably don't as adults, because we've been jaded by life and they hear him while they sleep and they act on that and they don't know why they're doing it. They're just doing it because, like you said, at a certain age they don't really have that much of a theology, so they don't know why they do what they do. They just know that something or someone told them or gave them this urge to do it and they're doing it. And I really love that and I think that's why we're supposed to have childlike faith, because they are fully trusting, they are fully loving and they're honest too, sometimes brutally honest, but maybe we need that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kids are a gift. I like to say that my kids have been teaching me about Jesus long before they could speak, because as soon as I held that little girl and eventually that little boy in my arms, I experienced a new kind of love that conceptually I understood and yet had no clue. I got the concept but I hadn't experienced it. And I remember holding my daughter for the first time, like just right after she was born, and she's in my arms and there was this conviction of it was this question that I was really praying through, of God asking me what would you be willing to receive to give her up? And I was like nothing, nothing could like she's mine, this can't like, like there's nothing I would trade for this little girl. And what he was doing was he was giving me a picture of what Jesus did. He sent his son to die on the cross for me. Whereas I'm feeling the weight of that now, where I've got a cherished little one in my arms, saying this is my daughter. And now I'm feeling the weight of what Jesus did and what the father experienced when Jesus went on the cross In a way I didn't know until I had that little girl. It's our kids, if we're humble enough to see it, are there to help us grow and mature.
Speaker 2:One of the key parts of being a mature believer, being a disciple maker, is you can only mature so much without a spiritual child. I genuinely believe that, and that doesn't mean you need to have a physical child. You could just be discipling somebody and leading them to maturity. But when you start to do that, you start to help them grow and mature because you're others minded Now, you're not this Christian consumer. They start to ask those like a new believer does the same thing, a kid does. They ask questions that you had never thought of.
Speaker 2:My daughter the other day asked so our son has a? He was diagnosed at his 18th bundle checkup with a rare eye condition, and so we've had a whole lot of surgery since then. And my daughter came up to me. She said hey, dad, when Ezra gets the medicine to help him go to sleep, does he dream? And I was like I don't know if he dreams, probably not, but maybe. And then she asked well, can he wake up? I said no, the design of the medicine is that he doesn't feel any pain when he's having a surgery, and so he can't wake up during that time and she goes. But what if he's having?
Speaker 2:a nightmare and he can't wake up and like that's the level of empathy my daughter has and that's the kind of question that I like hard hearted Josh over here, like not a, not a thought, thought for me Never would have come up with that question on my own, but she's stretching me and she's growing me and she's having me press into things that I hadn't thought of otherwise.
Speaker 2:That's what our kids do. That's what discipling people is meant to do. It's going to grow us as well, it's not just them. It's beautiful and it's good if we allow it to be, but if we're busy being guarded and walled up and keeping them at an arm's distance and never being willing to show any kind of weakness, that's going to show them that they need to do those things too. It's going to keep them at an arm's distance. We're never going to get as close as we were meant to. I'm going to stunt some of the growth that God was planning on doing in me through them, which I would say would be tragic.
Speaker 1:Your daughter is so sweet.
Speaker 2:She's awesome.
Speaker 1:That's just the sweetest. And yeah, that's something that probably wouldn't have crossed my mind either to think of. I mean, yeah, it's very profound. How does a parent do parenting against the current?
Speaker 2:I would say that the biggest thing and there's a lot to it, right, the whole it's all about intentionality and part of the current for a parent is I'm tired, I get home, I'm tired. I've been working all day.
Speaker 2:And so, the current being all right, I'm going to give my family the leftovers, and if all you do is give your family the leftovers, don't be surprised when your kids stop showing up to the table. We have a responsibility, like for when your kids stop showing up to the table. We have a responsibility for me, and I tell this to my church. My first ministry is not my church.
Speaker 2:It's my home, it's my family. That's where I need to press in and grow and lead and shepherd. But there's this mentality of especially in Christian circles well, we're going to delegate the spiritual leadership to the church. So my kids, they'll go to kids ministry once a week, every Sunday, if they show up every Sunday, and that's how my child's going to learn about Jesus. No, like I would never delegate my marriage to somebody else, I'd never say, hey, you know what, Jenny, go over with the neighbor, they're going to be your husband for a couple of days. I'd never do that, That'd be ridiculous. But we do that with the church where we say, hey, you disciple my kid. No, we are meant to do that and one of the key ways.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of strategies that I unpack, but the biggest thing if this is the only thing you hear, dads, this is what I want you to know Be a destination parent. We're so busy trying to survive that we forget to look ahead and actually swim and lead somewhere. We need to know where we're looking to lead our families. So what's the destination that you're parenting toward? I'll give you mine. Jenny and I have had a lot of conversations about this and our destination is three parts. It's we want our kids to love God, love people and enjoy us. Those are the three things.
Speaker 2:That's the destination that we're driving to, which means that, because that's our destination, everything we do is moving in that direction. If it doesn't help like if you're going to Miami right now, you're probably not going to stop at the Space Needle in Seattle You're not going to like we're in Connecticut, you just kind of go straight down. That's just how it works. You're going to go in the direction you need to be headed. Same thing for this. This is the filter Love God, love others, enjoy us. Everything we do is pushed through, which means that when my daughter wants to play soccer in the basement and I am tired, I need to make tired weight and go down and do the thing that I know will build our connection together, because I want her to enjoy us. I want that connection to be so, so deep that when she doesn't have to be around mom and dad, she still wants to be. When Sunday comes up and there's soccer games or church, like we're part of it's my job.
Speaker 2:So I know there's an asterisk there for some of us, but this was true before I worked for a church we are going to say no, no, we're going to do what's most important Soccer's cool, but it's not most important and we're going to make sure that we're pressed into a biblical community, because it doesn't just take a village to raise a child, it takes a village to raise a parent, and I want community around me and I want men around me and women around my wife to be able to really help raise us up and call us to what's better. But if we don't have that filter which is true for most parents, you don't have that destination that you're parenting toward. The intentionality is more about treading water than swimming into swimming to a direction and the current is going to sweep you away. If you're treading water, the current already has you. You have to be moving against it.
Speaker 2:And so, parents, we need to know where we're leading our families, and that needs to be the filter of everything that we do. If it doesn't fall into our destination, we don't do it, period. Our family will not do it. And if it does help us get there, we might do it. It's still not a guarantee, because we have to balance our schedule. That's one of the problems that we have like we were meant to lead our schedules. Our schedules were not meant to lead us, but my schedule also doesn't need help filling it, it'll fill itself. And then, all of a sudden, I'm busy, busy, busy, busy, and I look up and I'm way downstream, and so I need to get control of the things that I control. I need to realize that everything I say yes to, I say no to something else, which means I need to say yes to the things that help lead my family to the place that we're meant to be moving towards.
Speaker 1:Very good tips and tools. It really hit me when you were talking about how you're tired but you need to put the tired aside to do the thing that's going to make you and your child connect and that, even if they're not near you, they're going to want to be. That really hit me a lot because I'm not always a hands-on parent never really been one. My mom was, but I'm not quite like her and it just it convicted me. I'll be honest, because it's something that I need to work on. My kids want to color with me, do puzzles, play video games. I should be willing to do those things. Being selfish is not helpful and it's certainly not going to make them want to be near me at some point in the future. So, yeah, that was definitely humbling, thank you.
Speaker 2:It's hard, though it is challenging, and I'm not preaching against self-care. I think self-care is wildly overblown by culture, right?
Speaker 1:now, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:Because it's not self-care, it's just selfish. But I'm in on. There are going to be times where it's like, hey, I just need to breathe, I just need a minute. Um, and that's where, for those of us who do have a partner do you have a spouse that we're doing this with? That's the beautiful time where you can be like, hey, I just need to. Can I tap out for a minute, like you've got them and I need to to get right with Jesus or refill or whatever it is. That's okay, I'm not against that. I just think that that shouldn't be the norm.
Speaker 2:If that's, every time I get home. I'm not connecting. I'm missing an opportunity, is what I would call it. I have painted far too many little paper mache unicorns and I hate art. I hate it, I despise it. But I love my daughter, which means that I'm going to meet her there, even though and I'm going to do it graciously she doesn't know that I hate art yet. Eventually she will catch on.
Speaker 1:If she listens to the podcast, she will.
Speaker 2:I'm sold out. That's not good. I'm in trouble, yeah no.
Speaker 1:I get that and it's a sacrifice thing and a laying down of self, which is what we're supposed to be doing as believers in Christ. So, yeah, I definitely I do need to work on that and I will be working on that.
Speaker 2:Well, me too. It's a process.
Speaker 1:So where can everyone find the book?
Speaker 2:So I got it right here. So it's the book. It's not small. It's also on Audible, because if we want to reach parents, let's be real, half of us read while we're driving anyway. Yeah true, so it is on Audible, but you can find it on Amazon. Parenting Against the Current Taking Back Discipleship in your Home. That's the title by Josh Poteet and Matt Nations. You can also find us on our website, wwwparentingagainstthecurrentcom. Would love to be able to connect with any parents trying to grow, step forward and move upstream.
Speaker 1:All right, well, before we go, give some encouragement to the fathers out there who maybe they're feeling a little bit of conviction right now because of everything that we've discussed, and they realize they're not hitting the mark. Give them encouragement.
Speaker 2:No, it's good, I would say. This Conviction is meant to be the dwelling place of the believer, and so when I'm convicted, I feel encouraged, and here's why it's God giving me a target to aim for. It's not, hey, the gospel is not your failure. You're messed up. You're whatever that was before You're redeemed in Christ, you're saved, which means that it's not a gospel of do anymore, it's a gospel of done. It is finished, which means that you don't need to feel guilt. As you experience conviction, you can actually rejoice in the fact that God's giving you something good to aim at. The other piece I would say is wrestling through. This stuff is a lifelong journey and you're exactly where you need to be. That wrestling, the moment that I feel like I've got my parenting figured out, and then I'm crushing it, which is the ultimate irony. Yeah, I wrote a book on it. Yeah, read page one. It's me just saying I am still figuring.
Speaker 1:I've got no idea.
Speaker 2:I'm pulling from other people who know what they're doing, like we're building a plane while flying here, and yet you're where you need to be wrestling with those questions, trying to figure it out, seeking wise counsel, pressing into biblical community. If you're not doing those things, start. Yesterday was the best time to do it. Today is the second best time, so let's press in together. You're where you need to be and God has something so beautiful. I genuinely believe that he is inviting your family into something beautiful. I don't know what that looks like. I'm not promising you like wealth or prosperity or anything like that.
Speaker 2:I have no idea what God's definition of good is for your family, but I know that his good comes with a capital G and that's what I want to move toward.
Speaker 2:And that's what he has for your family too. Like if all we have at the end of the day is standing at the gates of heaven and your kids are with you there and they're moving into a deeper presence with the Lord because of the kingdom ground that they got to take part in back here. My goodness, that's what parenting is all about, and you're taking steps and just simply wrestling with the question. So let's keep moving upstream.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good stuff. Thank you again, josh, for coming on and talking with me today. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, leave a review for the podcast wherever you are listening, or click the link in the show notes. If you have feedback for me, use the leave a message or voicemail links also in the show notes. You can check out my website honestchristianconversationscom to leave a review or feedback as well. Join the community and become part of something bigger than yourself. Lastly, sign up for the mailing list and get the free seven-day devotional as a thank you gift. Once again, thanks for listening. I look forward to our next conversation.
