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Super Sex
Supersex was a podcast exploring sexuality, relationships, and sex education that ran from July 2024 to December 2025.
The show was created during an earlier stage of my professional journey as I developed my work as a sexologist, educator, and communicator. Through conversations with guests and discussions on a wide range of topics, Supersex aimed to make sexuality education more accessible, practical, and relevant to everyday life.
As my work has evolved, so too has the focus of the conversations I want to have.
In 2026, Supersex will be re-launched as The Jordan Walker Show.
The new show will explore relationships, sexuality, human behaviour, education, masculinity, digital culture, and the challenges facing young people and adults in the modern world. Drawing on research, professional experience, and conversations with leading experts, the show will focus on helping listeners better understand themselves, their relationships, and the people around them.
Thank you to everyone who listened, supported, appeared on, and contributed to Supersex.
This isn't the end of the conversation.
It's the next chapter.
Jordan
Super Sex
Reframing Misconceptions in Sex Work
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What happens when a scientist, a pilot, and a former high-end sex worker walk into a podcast studio? Pure Supersex magic! In this episode, Amy Taylor brings her wild mix of life experiences to the table, peeling back the layers on sex positivity, intimacy, and the impact of trauma. From the resilience needed in sex work to the misunderstandings society clings to, Amy unpacks power dynamics, therapy’s role in healing, and the trust issues that make intimate relationships so complex.
Amy’s stories are more than just tales from the sex work world—they’re eye-openers on the very real dangers and manipulations lurking in the shadows. She sheds light on how privilege and resources can be protective in sex work, while others face heightened risks and unique psychological challenges. We dive deep into the intense relationship dynamics in BDSM communities, showing how their insights on consent can inform society at large.
Together, we challenge cultural myths around sexuality, body image, and gender roles, pushing for an inclusive view of sexual agency and understanding. Amy’s candor and humor make this journey not only a fascinating one but also a reminder that open discussions about sex are crucial to reclaiming our agency and redefining intimacy across all walks of life.
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Exploring Sex Work and Trauma
Speaker 1Alright , folks , buckle up . Today's ride through the super sex universe is bringing some serious fire . We're chatting with the brilliant , fearless and , might I add , ridiculously multi-talented Amy Taylor . Now , amy's not just a former high-end sex worker , she's also a scientist and a pilot . So if anyone knows about navigating turbulence in intimacy , she's the one .
Speaker 1Now we're talking about everything , like everything Trauma , trust issues and those funny misconceptions we carry into the bedroom . How does the world of consent and safety look from any side of things ? And why does society still get so damn squirmy about sex work ? She's dropping some major truth bombs and sharing the kind of insights you'd only get from someone who's seen it all . So , whether you're here to learn , laugh or just lean back and enjoy the ride , this is the episode for you Because , let's face it , life isn't always a level playing field , but a little empathy , humor and self-awareness make all the difference . Anyways , let's get into it . Hey to all the straights , gays and nays , welcome to Supersex , the podcast where we have conversations and share our perspectives on sexuality , sex and more . I'm Sheldon and I'm Jordan , two friends , one straight one gay taking on sexuality , sex and more .
Speaker 2I'm Sheldon and I'm Jordan , two friends , one straight , one gay taking on all things sex .
Speaker 1We have Amy Taylor on the pod . Amy is , she's a wealth of knowledge . She's got a wealth of experience as well . So you know what , Amy ? I hate those podcasts where people are introducing somebody else on their behalf , and I think it's so much more powerful when you introduce yourself . So let the listeners know how did you get to this point in your life ?
Speaker 3So , yeah , I'm pretty pretty sex positive , which is why my assistant found you , because I think we're both trying to be more open in a world that can be pretty phobic about this topic . Um , the reason I I am sex positive is that , among other things I've done , I have been a sex worker . Uh , I've also been a pilot , both for a hobby and , at times , for a living . I was a scientist briefly after undergrad . I was kind of a mediocre one . I've done an MBA and helped work for an oil company . I'm a mother I'm not a mother , I'm a dog mother and I'm an aunt and I'm a sister and I'm a friend . So I'm a patchwork of things , like all of us , but I am unabashedly sex positive and I love your podcast and it's such an honor to get to talk to you because I'm a big fan of the show .
Speaker 1It's really good to see there's like this emerging movement of sex positivity at the moment , and it's there's a lot of people coming at it from different angles , which is absolutely brilliant . You know , like on our show , we do it from the queer perspective , we do it from the straight perspective , we do it from lived experience , we do it from the scientific basis . But having you on the show today to talk about your experiences and what that has brought to your understanding of sex positivity is absolutely huge . So , yeah , I'm super excited to get into this one . But today we're talking , or we're going to try and talk , about sexual experiences and how they shape your relationships . We're going to talk a little bit about trauma so there's a bit of a trigger warning in there for people . So we're going to hit how in , how it impacts your relationships and , more importantly , what the fuck you can do about it and how the hell we can get around it . So , yeah , because that's what everybody wants to know , right ?
Speaker 3yeah . So thanks for this topic and and right for those triggered and maybe want to turn it off or listen in in doses as you can . Thanks for being brave and listening . I think , think I believe in Fiat Lux . I think the more light we shine on the difficult stuff , the better our world becomes .
Speaker 3I don't think hiding our way out of things is the way to go . Not that I don't run down the street and talk about my traumas with strangers , that'd be weird . But I do think you know , like if someone has experienced , for instance , the traumas of manipulation and coercion which I was a very privileged , high-end sex workers but sometimes I left or refused people who did try to manipulate and coerce . I have the great privilege of never having had contact with them , but I still get their emails a hundred times a day that are pretty awful and that kind of trauma in sex work or or in any other kind of sexual relationship .
Speaker 3It can lead to like fear of intimacy . It can lead to trust issues . It can lead to hypervigilance , um , it can reduce your willingness to be vulnerable . Moving forward , it can reduce your willingness to be vulnerable . Moving forward , you don't feel safe with a partner and positive past experiences , of which I've been lucky to have many , can foster openness and trust that tends to be attractive to a partner . So it's it's really unfortunate that having bad experiences can lead to more bad experiences , and that's what we want to tell the truth about and counter , because that's such a tragedy If , if we can't go through the hard stuff and become better and the hard stuff really can make you better If you , if you approach therapy and recovery in the right ways- I think that the hard stuff kind of makes you who you are , so who , and if you happy with who you are at this particular point in time , the hard stuff , all that horrible stuff at the time , unfortunately has that foundation , those building blocks to make you who you are today .
Speaker 2So it's unfortunate , trauma sucks , but a lot of the time it makes us who we are .
Speaker 3Yeah , totally I agree with you . I think sometimes pressure can make diamonds right .
Speaker 2Absolutely . Look at this beautiful diamond right here .
Speaker 3Oh , you too . I know the wonderful Mexican saying that says they tried to bury me but they didn't know I was a seed . But because we're all so different , the same trauma can manifest , does definitely manifest differently in different people . Right , like , yes , that's right . I know a lot of sex workers have . They talk about it . They have to disassociate to do the work and , uh , that's a way of getting through something that they wouldn't want for their body but they're doing because poverty is also traumatic . Not being able to buy food or shelter is literally death inducing . In my country we don't have many safety nets .
Speaker 3So , choosing between different forms of suffering and it's unfortunate that can make them . That can make them uncomfortable with physical touch in in their non paid relationships , which you know , or they can feel trapped in a cycle of fear and guilt . The things they're doing for money then make them feel , especially when society tells you a thousand times a day that you're a garbage person who would be better off dead , which is what it tells sex workers in my country Exactly . I know some who become overwhelmingly people pleasers as a need to sort of feel like if they're worthless unless they earn love and approval . You see that a lot , especially in the high end Women with eating disorders . They have to be more perfect . They sort of don't think they're worthy . Their trauma makes them feel like they're almost a tool that is not worthy of love and acceptance unless they are useful to someone else , and that's a survival response usually formed from early trauma . Right , If I earn approval and love , nobody will hurt me anymore .
Speaker 1Yeah , the other thing I find as well is that there's this weird sort of stigma from the outside in looking at people in sex work , and I sort of got a firsthand account of this when I was young , because I used to date a stripper and a lot of the girls were taking different substances in order to get through life and people were like , oh you know well , they're stripping simply to feed their habit . And while that was true for a couple , it was more likely the inverse that was actually going on , where they were actually on the gear because they were suffering from the trauma that was being applied to them during that sex work . So is that a thing that you've seen a lot of ?
Speaker 3A lot of people can't work without being a little bit drunk or high . However , that's true . I've seen a lot of A lot of people can't work without being a little bit drunk or high . However , that's true . I've seen a lot of finance guys who need Coke to work 18-hour days .
Speaker 1I've seen a lot of mad people who do Adderall to do spreadsheets better .
Speaker 3So there's a lot of drug use in a lot of business . I'm not trying to do whataboutism but yes , that is true that sometimes the habit can make you it's easier to tolerate the wild nights of strip club , because you're everybody's good time in a strip club .
Speaker 3They're going there to have fun . You're everybody's party . It's a bit like being a rock star where they can end up with substance abuse problems
Navigating Trauma in Sex Work
Speaker 3because you're everybody . The thing that worked for you can end up really destroying you , right ? I had a client once . I dumped him . He said to me I want you to be my little coke slut , because when I call and want you to come , fly out and take a vacation with me , I want you to jump for me . So I want to get you addicted to cocaine so that I will be the person you always answer the phone for . And , of course , I dumped him .
Speaker 3Well , I had the privilege of being higher educated , not really being financially desperate . Very quickly I was no longer super broke because I saved and lived beneath my means . But this man wanted to get me addicted , simply for the leverage it would have over me , which was terrifying . To be told that , I mean he's self-snitched , thank god , so yes which is very scary .
Speaker 3Well , yeah , he was a creep and good riddance , but , um , the uh , I don't think I ever would have done drugs with him . It's not my vibe . I'm , I'm uh bizarre enough without drugs . This is me sober , but I don't , I don't need them , uh , but and I'm afraid of them . Honestly , I'm I'd rather buy shoes than drugs with my money , but , um , but yes , uh , you're correct that the that the chicken and egg argument of drugs versus work , versus trying to get through things that are difficult , that that is definitely true . Yeah , as you saw , it's that .
Speaker 1That's really fucked up . That story , though like that . There's people out there that are trying to get people hooked on substances just to be able to coerce them and take advantage .
Speaker 3That is oh well , pimps do that because if they've got , if they've got the source of your drugs and they're also , uh , profiting like selling you drugs and taking a profit , and then you're broke because you're spending all your profits on drugs Then they got you right Exactly . Also , if you only get two hours of sleep a night . You can be on the blade working more right and that fact that they'll use the drugs will burn you out and you'll end up burnt out in 10 years . They don't care .
Speaker 3They're not thinking they don't care , they're not thinking , they don't care what happens to you in 10 years . Yeah , they're just saying for the quick financial hit and then that's it . They want to get every penny out of you . And because they're selling young , new , the , the , the street is very much a hunting thing . The men who like it , they like to drive down the street and kind of hunt , that's , that's the . And so they are supplying newness , freshness , youngness , and so they don't care about destroying you . Yeah , sure , so there , that is a big part of it .
Speaker 3And yeah , the , this gentleman I think he's not a gentleman , I'll be honest . Uh , he probably would have said I'm just kidding if I confronted him instead of being polite and getting back to the airport to fly home and never talk to him again . Um , yeah , you should watch Anna Kendrick's movie on Netflix , a woman of the hour , because it'll show you , uh , what we do to stay safe from predatory men is that we behave very politely and then get the fuck out safely , because we know that confronting them does not work . That's how you get killed , right .
Speaker 1Then as a sex worker and I suppose you can extrapolate that out to being a female within society as well , and more so historically than , or in fact I don't even know if I'm saying that right , maybe not , but females also have to be hypervigilant around men , because it seems that has nothing to do with sex work .
Speaker 3It has to do with being a female alive um yeah and in . So , uh , yes , you know that you are physically smaller , you will not win in a hand-to-hand combat battle , unless you know second amendment if you have a firearm , but he might just as a stronger , bigger person , he might just take it . So , um , you know that you will not win biologically , so you finesse and you use your wiles and and that's correct , um , which can be its own form of trauma , is that we're like deer . Right , you got to have the eyes .
Speaker 1This way , it's it's this weird sort of coping mechanism that females sort of have to come , come along and I suppose , being a sex worker , you worker , you live that life every single day , so you're constantly getting cycled through trauma to a certain extent simply by just trying to have to protect yourself .
Speaker 3Well , so when you're very privileged , you only deal with people who are very famous , very well known . You meet them at places where they've been vetted , like the penthouse suite at the peninsula , where the hotel has registered them under a credit card . Yeah , they could still kill you , but it's pretty unlikely they're going to go , do all that under their name , go and then murder you in the room . It's , it's always possible , but uh , and they have a lot to lose . So why would they , I mean , and they're so rich if they were mad at you ? They just pay you and tell you to leave . Um , well , and of course , there are safety checks . And then there's the blackmail of when you deal with people who are not single , they tend not to want to piss , make you upset because you have a little bit of leverage , which is a a sick thing to say , but it is a bit effective .
Speaker 1The worst person that sex workers should never see is a person with nothing to lose , right ? Yeah , so that would then make it even more dangerous for the people who are working let's call it on the streets , where they don't have those vetted sort of places to be able to go and those safety and security checks .
Speaker 3You know , if they're just hustling on the street , it's dangerous the people with the best psychological outcomes , according to most of the generally accepted data , are brothel workers , because they have a lot of security , um uh . They tend to feel like they're living with their coworkers and they're pretty safe . They get half they can force , like safe sex and medical check . They have to take medical checks , so they're not going to push let clients push their boundaries . They tend to have the most safe outcomes and that's why most countries that have decriminalized or legalized have embraced the brothel model . Why America doesn't , I'm not sure , because while you know strip clubs , you dated a stripper . It's not perfect . There's lots of nonsense and labor problems , but it's certainly better than than the street for sure .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , it's , uh and it's . It's interesting , the legalities around it , like country to country . I mean I spent a bit of time in amsterdam and seen what that was like and that was an absolute eye-opener . Coming from australia , and then you know , you go to other places like japan , where it's a completely closed society , and then australia it's , it's actually legal but it's not legal and it's it's just an absolute minefield .
Speaker 3Yeah , Many laws are attempting to push us away from base animalistic actions that are harmful and destructive , that live in a lot of people . Right , we're trying to make a civilized world out of people who may not behave with civility . If they could , I think we're . You know , the world is epically less violent and horrific than it was a couple thousand years ago . So I think we're sort of doing it , but it remains imperfect .
Speaker 1Yeah , as it always is . Now , what I wanted to chat with you about as well is , like , obviously you've got all this embedded sort of trauma that comes from doing sex work and being in different sort of situations with a lot of different men . What are some of the strategies that people can use to get through this and we've talked offline about ? Is it EMDR and kinks specifically ? So I'd love to get into those two things yeah , I mean .
Speaker 3So for people who don't know , emdr , eye movement , desensitization , desensitization and uh , what is it ? Repositioning , reprocessing , right ? Um , it in . It involves where your eyes track and where your brain go . I am not qualified to , but google , um , there's also like some somatic therapy stuff , um , but it basically helps .
Healing Trauma and Building Intimacy
Speaker 3Your trauma no longer dictates how you engage with intimacy , right . So the truth is , in my colleagues I know , I know hundreds of thousands of sex workers worldwide , literally , and most of them are in relationships , they have a partner and they have healthy sex lives outside of this .
Speaker 3Most of them are no relationships , they have a partner and they have healthy sex lives . Outside of this , most of them are no more or less okay than regular people . I mean , I have a family member who's a rape survivor . She was never a sex worker , it was just the next boyfriend who raped her because he was mad , uh , and she's married for 27 years and in a healthy relationship . So it is entirely possible with good therapies , um , and open communication . The the best partners are allies , um . They're empathetic , they're willing to support the healing journey and create a safe environment .
Speaker 3Um , and then sort of I don't mean to be funny , but actually kinks can be a very , uh , interesting place to process some trauma in a safe way . I come from a perspective of never yucking someone else's . Yum . I understand some people listening to this might not agree , but I've seen in the BDSM world , with which I'm quite familiar , a lot of people use dungeons and the various things that go on in that big world as a way of processing trauma . They do and I don't judge it . I think whatever helps people get through is fine by me .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's . The BDSM community , from what I understand , is and it is such a patchwork of people , you know you've got people from all different walks of life , and the fact that people are coming there to experience something is , firstly , great . And the thing I like about those particular communities is that they are communities where people are talking , people are supporting each other and working through that . So I think that's like a pretty vital element from what you've just said open communication , and that is so prevalent within that King community .
Speaker 3They have a lot to teach the rest of us about consent .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , oh yeah . So I'm a sex educator and quite a lot of the consent lessons that I teach teens . I have basically got straight from the kink community and I've implemented that and I've got all these other teachers and principals walking past going . You know that was a great lesson on consent , yeah , but you didn't realize that I just got that from a whole heap of kinky websites ?
Speaker 3Yeah , but you didn't realize that I just got that from a whole heap of kinky websites . One of the most disgusting thing my country does to sex workers is that , because they criminalize it almost everywhere in America , the consent cannot be talked about or out or dictated beforehand , so people are going in blind , which makes things worse . Of course . It's almost like America just wants people who engage in sex work to suffer wow so ?
Speaker 1so hang on . You're not allowed to talk about consent , you're not allowed to have that conversation , is that ? Is that what I'm hearing ?
Speaker 3no , that would be . That would be illegal because you would talk , you'd be talking about sex acts where it's and where you monetize prostitution , which becomes illegal .
Speaker 3So people are going in blind . There's no consent , uh , bdsm they can talk about it's quasi legal . I live in new york state where it's officially totally legal to be a dominatrix , uh , but not every state is like that , right , we're kind of like 50 ridiculous little countries with their own laws . It's a mess , uh mess . And some of them are going the other way . Right , they're outlawing porn and I mean it's , I'm not gonna . Yeah , fbi listening this , hi , america's not perfect . I still love it . But look , the fbi agents said vulnerability is essential to building intimacy and if you don't have consent and you're not talking about your truth , then you're not vulnerable and then you cannot be intimate . Right ?
Speaker 1yeah , absolutely , absolutely . And that's that's a conversation that I think as we get older , we get better at , we get better at discussing . Hey , this is what I like , this is what turns me on , what turns you on , and especially for guys , I think as we move past I'm going to say 30 , as we move past 30 , we start to get this weird thing . Well , it's not weird , it's actually great . We get this thing where we want to start pleasing our partner rather than the pleasure coming to us and we start getting off on that . So that leads into a conversation .
Speaker 1But it's not always a skill that young guys have acquired , and young women as well . They don't really get taught this because it's not in sex ed curriculums , it's . You know , you're never going to learn that in school . And if you're not going to learn it in school , where are you going to learn it ? You're going to go to social media , and social media now , as you well know , like you say , the word vagina and suddenly a shadow ban for six weeks . And what's the next step ? Porn . You never get the consent lesson on porn . So you know , people aren't learning these skills and they're learning it through experience , and that experience sometimes is problematic , you know , and but question what are some things that people can do to have those conversations a little bit better ?
Speaker 3um , yeah , so most of us have a combination of positive and negative sexual experiences , right , and and we , like you said , be start to be more comfortable with what we like , and then we also may have I've met many middle age people who have a curiosity about all the things they didn't try . They're kind of like , look , I want to check these boxes before I die , kind of thing . Right , I think , um , navigating the mix and understanding yourself it I I'm a big fan of journaling . I think acknowledging your sexual experiences and thinking about how they shaped you and your attitudes and your feelings about sex can really help . If a certain situation or activity really feels pleasurable and fulfilling , I think it's important to think about why , think about it and even write about it . For me , writing crystallizes things . Perhaps other people it would be talking to their therapist or their partner , I think , conversely , if it's like , really triggering , then it's important to understand why . I think self-awareness is as important as communication , right , and I guess self-awareness is actually . Communication is just with yourself , right , and talking to yourself as you would a loved one with , with kindness and empathy , uh , is an empowering thing that can can allow the nuance of your feelings and they can change like
Challenging Societal Sexuality Norms
Speaker 3.
Speaker 3I know people who've been into bdsm for a decade and then not so much , and that's cool too . I in college wanted to try sleeping with a woman , but I wouldn't call myself gay , I didn't hate it , it was fun . But I think sometimes it's okay to like something and then maybe something else . But understanding why something is either pleasurable or painful , either emotionally or physically , is very important . Why something is either pleasurable or painful , either emotionally or physically , it , uh , is very important . I would encourage everybody to , as we've said , communicate , including with your , with yourself , and pay attention to when the the antenna goes up for something , either in a good way or a very negative way . Um , yeah , some of that's biological .
Speaker 3I don't like nipple clamps . I don't think anything ever happened to my nipples that I can remember . I think they're just too intense for me . I don't know , I don't like them . But cool people who do you , do you right ?
Speaker 2Yeah , no , I think that's great advice . Personally speaking , I know there's been moments where , sexually , I've done stuff and gone wait , hold on . Why do I like ? Why does that feel good ? And there's that little moment where it just goes click and it's like , oh shit , that's from my trauma , my sexual trauma . And there's that moment where I go wait , but is this a good thing or is it a bad thing ? How can this be something that I like or I'm into or gives me pleasure , if it has such a bad connotation behind it ? A great idea to actually sit down there and like journal , think it through , process it . But me processing just in my head , muddle head here . Um , it took a while to realize that it's okay . What I like is what I like . Yes , it comes from a place of trauma , unfortunately , but it is what it is . What can you do ?
Speaker 3and I wouldn't say bad or good not . Yeah , it's hard to say . Trauma is good , as we talked about earlier . But yeah , societal norms are huge factors in how we perceive our sexual experiences . Don't at the internet . I'm not saying that child abuse is okay , I know it's not , but like these things are in a bell curve and there are extremes , that for sure 100 never okay . However , women , I'll say from my perspective as a woman we are subjected to so many conflicting messages about our sexuality . Be a slut , but don't be a slut . Be a virgin , but don't be bad at sex . Be able to be the throat goat , but , on the other hand , if you have a too high of a body count , fuck you .
Speaker 3So like we carry around guilt and shame about sex and also we're supposed to be the sexual queen and goddess . So , like sometimes , society stigmatizes and rewards stuff , and so you can .
Speaker 3I would say , in reclaiming your sexual agency . I don't know the details of your trauma , but sometimes I would shake some of it off and be like that's society's bullshit . Not not always , but yeah . I know hundreds of retired sex workers , for instance , who are just fine now . They typically lie about it because they're now running come . I know some who are tycoons in business . They're running companies that you guys know and wow . Well , the people close to them know what they did to get through grad school . They don't want to hurt them and it's ancient history now . But the only reason they're okay and not traumatized by society is because they have to lie , and I don't think they are evidence to me that sometimes there is nothing wrong with having been a sex worker .
Speaker 3Maybe but , except for society right again , that is not always the truth sure , that's not always true , but sometimes it's society's bullshit that assigns trauma to you that shouldn't , that doesn't need to even be there that's 100 , totally agree gay man here .
Speaker 2I completely agree . We talked about this on the other week , so you know , yeah , I was . I was just going to say like we .
Speaker 1We talked about this on the pod , the other week , so you know .
Speaker 1Yeah , I was just going to say like we talked about this on the pod the other week , like how there is so much shame just from being a gay person and then for women , there's so much shame about even airing your desires to a partner . Like , I've been working with a few guys who are really sort of wigging out on the fact that their partners are liking large dildos and large penises and they're like , oh , is my girlfriend a slut because she likes something a bit bigger than me ? And it's like , fuck , no , she's not a slut , she just likes a different sensation . But it's that whole societal imprint that's making these guys double check their relationship and double check their , their perceived morality of their partner , simply because you know , if you like a big cock , you're a slut .
Speaker 3it's so fucked up oh , my favorite one was like some ugly old client would say he didn't have a problem with gay guys as long as they didn't hit on him . And I wanted to say , bitch , no one is hitting on you . I think that's my favorite line . When guys do that , Well , they would like a gay guy to hit on them . Obviously right . Of course , I never met a man to compliment . Hit on them . Obviously right of course .
Speaker 2Obviously we have to remember it is it's the biggest compliment , because gay guys have such high freaking standards that if a gay guy says to you you're hot , take it because you're probably a straight 10 and a gay four and a half I mean that's hilarious .
Speaker 3I'm gonna borrow that a straight 10 a game . I never met a man who didn't love getting pegged Not one .
Speaker 2So I mean always oh , that's interesting .
Speaker 3Always they just . And then they would ask if I thought they were gay . I was like , first of all , I'm a woman , so not gay . Secondly , we know that God loves gays . He put the male G spot up there .
Speaker 2That's evolution , so you should relax . Sorry , sorry , jordan , but I have to say it straight men are so dumb , straight men are so dumb especially from the older generation .
Speaker 3They were punished so severely for being sexually open , if they were bi or even curious about it , that they didn't feel at liberty to be honest yeah they were trapped in the same nonsense this is .
Speaker 2It is true . I mean , I know that this is where it all comes from . It comes from the past . I just hate , I just I want those stereotypes to be all broken , that you know if you put a finger anywhere near your arsehole it's gay Like . Can we just look at English . What is the definition of gay ? It's attraction to the same sex . Attraction Says nothing about fingers in arseholes , about being pegged by your wife or your girlfriend . Being gay is being attracted to the same sex , Sexually attracted to the same sex . It's so dumb .
Speaker 3It's stupid Like . What if you just like ? Somebody's soul , they could be you know the kids are better at this than even my generation being over 40 . Now you might love their soul and the way they make
Exploring Societal Views on Sexuality
Speaker 3you feel . And who cares whether it has a vagina or penis or both , or you know , everybody's got a mouth and hands . Those are more important anyway oh , too right , too right .
Speaker 1And how many people get caught up on genitals and like , like let's talk about the meaning of sex because you brought that up , and like let's talk about the meaning of sex because you brought that up , and like it's either good or it's bad . And then people sit there and talk about , like virginity as this sort of thing that women must protect , you know , and like that's a whole other thing . But then they say that virginity comes from vaginal sex , which means then that a gay man can never be , is always going to be , a virgin , because a gay man's never going to have vaginal sex . So like what the fuck is going on ? So , as a gay man , you are now the more morally pure one because you're always a virgin . Yet you're dicking somebody's backside like all night . People just have such distorted views on sex .
Speaker 3Policing . Women's sexuality has always been a thing in every culture and probably always will be . You don't want to . We know all the arguments . You don't want to be raising some other guy's kids . Men are often forever insecure because women have proof positive that that's your baby . You don't forget giving birth you know , that's your kid .
Speaker 3Uh , men , there's always this liver of a chance that maybe it's not yours . That we have paternity tests , yes , you probably know , but there's never the proof positive that there is of actually giving birth to the thing Right . So I think Mother Nature , you know , set up a little bit of possible deception . You see it in a lot of animals . Where I an undergrad at UC Berkeley , I was a biology major and I worked one summer on voles . It's a field mouse .
Speaker 3We were studying hantavirus worked one summer on voles . It's a field mouse . Uh , we were studying hantavirus when the male and the female mate at night . Uh , the male puts like a waxy it's made of like wax and fur and he puts it it's a sperm plug . And after mating they cop the little mice , copulate and he puts this plug inside . And what does the female do ? The first thing she does is they run away after mating and she takes it out and goes and mates with a bunch of other males . Why ? Because each male brings her food and resources . So she's basically a prostitute , which you see a lot of prostitution in a lot of animals , where males trade resources for sex . You see that a lot . And also it creates sperm competition where if she mates with like five mice during when she's in heat , the best sperm wins , which is actually very good for evolution yeah , it's so on that , like absolutely it does and love that , like our biology is actually set up for that as well .
Speaker 1I read something .
Speaker 1I read this study that basically looked at the shape of the penis and the way that the crown of the penis is meant to basically remove any old sperm and put our new sperm in there , because we were never really meant to be monogamous creatures . We sort of just got there through calorie hoarding and all that sort of stuff and society and morals and all that sort of shit you know . So we found ourself here , but is it necessarily biologically who we're supposed to be ? Fuck no . But yet we're going to shame people out for it .
Speaker 3Yeah , dan Savage said it really well . He called us monogamish . It's a great term , birds are a lot like us .
Speaker 3They raise a very vulnerable offspring that needs parental care . Somebody has to go get worms and the other one has to like sit on it to keep it warm so it won't die Much like our infants . There's a lot of parental care and you do need cooperation . Women are very vulnerable in the last trimester . They can't run and hunt and things naturally and I'm not talking about now so we do probably need to stick together to not just make the offspring but get it to where it can survive right , that's true . But the shenanigans of cheating and this stuff that have always existed and will , we can only reckon with them . We probably can't eliminate them right and we probably shouldn't even want to try , because they are normal .
Speaker 2Why do they cause us so ?
Speaker 3much pain . Well , we're jealous creatures . Right when we love somebody , we often get very afraid of being abandoned .
Speaker 1Yeah , and there must also be that societal thing in that as well , because if you have a look at societies where polyamory and all that sort of different relationship styles are there , they don't have that level of jealousy . This is something that's been built up within our society and within our culture that now we are just embedding that as normal fact and not even challenging these thoughts by ourselves , which is I don't know . I'm starting to think that that's like this whole thing where we're not challenging our own thoughts around sex and sexuality and relationship styles and whatnot . It's actually really dangerous for our mental health in the long run I agree , I think a lot of .
Speaker 3They say that the young are having less sex than ever . I , I hope that's not true . This is difficult data to collect . I hope they're lying and having some sex , but um , I yeah , I think it's to . To ignore what we truly are is bizarre . That said , I have friends who are swingers and they say that they're totally open . There's often still quite a few rules because people still don't want to lose the love of their life to another person . We still have that in us , right ? It's not the sex , it's the abandonment , right yeah , that's it .
Speaker 1It's that emotional connection that everybody gets but I think is so deeply tied to sex as well .
Speaker 3Emotions and sex , yeah , I mean . A lot of women won't have an orgasm unless they trust a guy .
Speaker 1As a sex worker . Is that a thing for you where you've been out there and you've just really enjoyed a person's company and you've been able to get right into it ? Or is it always that sort of disassociation where it's like , okay , this is a performative act , and now I'm going through this to make sure this guy's got his rocks off , you know . Or or is that something that you sort of can let yourself go if you feel that right connection ?
Speaker 3Well , I mean , I would handpick some guy who was super rich and wanted a relationship and then I would see him for like five or six or seven years . So I was at the very privileged end of things . It was very much relationships . However , the fact that he provided was part of what I was looking for , and none of them would have provided for me if there hadn't been . I hadn't been gorgeous and compliant and stayed thin and , yes , had sex . So it was transactional , but it also was slightly emotional .
Speaker 3The breakups were painful because this was somebody you traveled all over the world with and spent a lot of time with . Um , uh , one of them I was never physically attracted to , but he was brilliant and funny . I really enjoyed being with him , but I never had an orgasm because he was pretty bad at sex for what I like . Probably somebody else liked what he did , but it wasn't great for me and because he was my boss , also there was . I would have never harmed his ego by saying I need something different than what you're doing , and so in that sense it's not a real relationship , because if I had , if I had not been being provided for , I would have . Well , I probably wouldn't have dated him , but I would have immediately said this is what I need when somebody was providing for me . They are in charge , they get what they want . But that doesn't mean it didn't feel good , that doesn't mean I didn't like it , I just never got over the edge . But that's not what I was there for and I and I still I still care deeply with him , we're still friendly .
Speaker 3Things ended for other reasons . It's fine , um , but orgasm surprised me . I mean , once I had a Tinder date regular , unpaid . I was really horny , so I felt like just having sex with this guy on the first date , which is not normally something I want . I like to do no judgment of women who do all good . Uh , but the Tinder date I showed up . I was really late in Los Angeles traffic and he was pretty mad and we had a brief dinner and then he was visiting from the San Francisco and I went to his hotel room perfectly willingly and I came so hard and I don't know why . We went out a few more times and I never came again and I don't know if it was the adrenaline I was nervous .
Speaker 3I don't know if it was hormones , like it was very weird , so orgasm maybe it might have been the la traffic I didn't particularly like him , that much I didn't dislike him either build up uh , yeah , I guess I should have sat in more la traffic . Maybe that's what got me off . I don't fucking know . I I don't know , um the love of my life , that I should have married , uh , um , he , uh , we . I came about half the time , which is pretty good odds for a straight woman . Um , but he was very sexy , very good looking . I liked him a lot . Probably should have married him , but that would have faded with time and life if we had made it .
Speaker 3Uh , so I don't know . Orgasms are a mystery to me and I've had some very , very good sex where I didn't come and some utterly forgettable sex where I did . I don't really think the finish line is the whole story for a lot of women .
Speaker 2That is so interesting .
Speaker 3But I was , oh , and transactional , like performative , transactional sex . Yeah , there is a power differential . When somebody is providing for you , there would be any way even if he wasn't , because these were very powerful , famous , wealthy men and I am nobody . So you feel that power differential . When you're dating a billionaire , yeah , it's very clear that there's a difference in status . You'd be delusional not to acknowledge that . Um . That said , I don't think um it I was ever able to have empty performative sex . I needed it dressed up in at least the man pretending to give a shit about me . I'm sure some of them were lying , don't care , needed them to lie to me anyway . Uh , or , I couldn't do my job , so they were always very chivalrous . They were always , you know , pretending it was a very much a relationship . Again , you'd have to ask them if maybe they were like I didn't care about her at all , it just got better service out of her . That's possible , I hope not yeah but I needed .
Speaker 1If somebody had treated me like it was completely just performative and I was an empty vessel , I would have left I I didn't ever allow that to be so black and white which which gets me sort of wondering , though and I've always had this thought about guys that quite often , when they access access a sex worker , I I don't necessarily know if it's always for the sex .
Speaker 3I wonder if there's an element that's about connection , about trying to build a relationship of some form , or just being heard because I don't know , I'm yeah , I , I just can't reconcile that I mean , I knew a very , I knew a very nice guy for years who would always uh , make arrangements for like the entire evening and then he would always leave early and uh , it kind of made you feel a little bit .
Speaker 2I mean you would .
Speaker 3You'd think you'd love it . Right , I get to go home to my friends and my dog or whatever , but it kind of made me feel empty . I'm a bit of an idiot that way .
Sex Work, Poverty, and Intimacy
Speaker 3And I guess he was not interested and so I condamned him to taking me overseas on a trip . He had a business trip and I wanted to go to this country because I'd never been there , and so he took me and we spent a week together and clearly that was not what he wanted . I had a great time , and not just for the money , but it was his country of origin , so it was great for me , but he never made it . He never made plans like that again and he was not looking for like to have a girlfriend . He was really not .
Speaker 3He was just looking for to have some fun and go home , and that's okay . He was polite and chivalrous . A lot of sex workers really liked him because they were like , hey , I'm out of here in an hour and I go home and it's a lot of money , right . But because I'm , I needed to at least feel like a person cared about me and I needed them to lie to me . If they didn't , it didn't really work for me . After a while it just felt kind of meaningless . But hey , income , I like not being homeless too , right .
Speaker 1That's exactly it and that's why I suppose we all choose our careers , because we're trying to stay as far away from poverty and you know the the negative side of things as possible and we use whatever we can to advance ourselves and , like we talked a little bit about this off air . You know , you , I don't care who you are , you use your sexuality and your personality to some form to progress your career , to keep you away from that poverty line and whatever . It's . Just sex workers get a bad rap for it because they actually use what God gave them as their body to be able to .
Speaker 2I don't understand the judgment . Why the judgment ?
Speaker 3So do I . Every married guy ever knew his wife gave him a lot of hot sex until she got the ring . I joke , just a joke Of course . But yes .
Speaker 2I mean , you want that really nice new car .
Speaker 3Poverty . People talk about sex work taking your dignity . You know what took all my dignity ? Not being able to buy groceries when I was young . Poverty stole all my dignity . Able to buy groceries when I was young , poverty stole all my dignity , I mean . So , given the landscape of opportunities , life is not a level playing field People when they say , just don't do sex work well if you have no other options that are nearly as good , also for intimacy , I've seen people who are . I used to see somebody who was blown up in a landmine and had one arm and no legs . He does not have access to intimacy like you guys do . So should he live devoid of human intimacy and , yes , some of it being sexual ? I say no .
Speaker 1Yeah , and that brings up like a really good point , because I work with a lot of people with new diversity and physical disabilities and whatnot and what I'm seeing with them is they would love to have a sexual relationship , but there are too many barriers between them finding somebody who's just willing to have sex with them , which is where thankfully now in Australia we've got this sort of loophole where people with a disability can actually access funding to get time with a sex worker , which I think is absolutely brilliant because they are getting that need out , because having sex and being intimate is a wellness issue .
Speaker 3It's not a morality life , I think I think that's wonderful , and I wish america would think about something like that too .
Debunking Myths About Sexuality
Speaker 3Life is not a level playing field . We don't all have the same opportunities , gifts , chances yeah , it's people .
Speaker 1I think . The sooner , yeah , I think the sooner the people stop putting these heavy sort of meanings on sex and trying to sort of embed everybody else with their perspectives , I think that the sooner that everybody will just start opening up and just being like you know what cool sex is , sex . Sex means what it means to you , and it's not a bad thing , it's not a good thing , it's just what it is . And if you're into hardcore bdsm , great , all power to you . If you're into missionary with the lights off and the sheets between you , cool , you know .
Speaker 3But missionaries lit . It's under as underrated sex acts go . Missionary is lit , as is sometimes a quickie . A quickie is more fun than people will give it credit for right oh yeah , oh , absolutely , I agree to both of those things .
Speaker 2First of all , missionary . I just find it so funny that the amount of times I've had straight guys ask me or mention oh well , you can't do that , what do you mean ? I can't do that . It's like of course I can , like , oh , but gay guys can't , they can't do missionary . Like we don't only sit there and do doggy . I mean , missionary for me is the best position because I want to be able to see that person's face and engage kissing , just it's so I'm with you . I like that .
Speaker 3There's a lot of um there . Uh , there's some , finally , some of the good movies on netflix like um have actually shown like two men in a love scene and so , like stupid , straight people have finally been like oh , that's what they do , like I mean my favorite question is a client once asked me when two women make love , how do they know when they're finished ? Right , right .
Speaker 1Oh , that's brilliant .
Speaker 3I mean oh my sweet summer child . You've never seen a woman orgasm , apparently . So , jokes aside , you don't . You don't know what you don't know . And I , maybe some of the men who don't know , missionary , maybe they're not doing enough yoga , they can't get there .
Speaker 2I don't know , oh yeah , I just , I just , find it so funny how everyone's idea of sex is so different , and people's idea of of gay sex is I don't know what , because I'm like where do they get it from ? They obviously straight people aren't watching the gay porn , so where are these ideas coming from that ? Or or maybe they are .
Speaker 3We don't know they should , they should learn more . Well , and you know , a lot of gay men are not tops and bottoms . They're neither or both .
Speaker 2Yeah , I'm averse , sometimes I prefer the top , sometimes I prefer the bottom . It just depends on the mood , the person , the guy , how I'm feeling in that particular moment . Mood , the person , the guy , how I'm feeling in that in in that particular moment . But the idea that I always love , how straight guys will always go oh well , if you're gay , you're taking it . Well . That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard , because physically , somebody has to give it , so there's gotta be these guys that are top . So not every man is taking it bruv and even if they , oh , what's wrong with that ?
Speaker 3this is the , the forbidden in their mind thing that they're very curious about , which I've seen a lot . They want to know what it feels like and they're very afraid oh yeah , I've had many of those conversations . I love those conversations right the things conversations , the things that they bring up , and that's to Jordan's point . That's because of the abysmal state of sex education in most places absolutely .
Speaker 3I think we don't talk about sex and so , yeah , we learn from our idiot friends , or we learn from porn , and porn is great . Some people struggle with addiction , but actually most people don't . Most people can just watch porn . We , yeah , we learn from our idiot friends , or we learn from porn , and porn is great . Some people struggle with addiction , but actually most people don't . Most people can just watch porn and be fine . We don't outlaw food because there's food . Addict Prohibition didn't work . Porn is made for the movie and those are kind of sexual Olympic athletes , right , the sex they're having is not the same as the sex that we mere mortals are having . I have met a lot of people who , uh , were furious that anal sex had gone so badly for them in their lives , but that's because they had never tried with lube oh my god yeah , I mean right , jordan .
Speaker 3Imagine dry anal . How , how well is that going to be received by your partner ? I don't even think you can . No .
Speaker 2Oh , my God .
Speaker 1It's . Oh my , it might generate support the idea that people have not thought .
Speaker 3Oh , my , they should show it more in porn . You know , a lot of times the camera cuts away and then the camera cuts back and it's very looped up and shiny .
Speaker 2I'll be honest .
Speaker 3I know that it's a fantasy . There are very few .
Speaker 2I was going to say there are very few . I've watched so many , so many gay movies or movies where they have gay sex scenes in them , and the ones that I love the most are the ones that I watch and I'm like that's really what happens , and there's probably been like maybe two gay scenes I've ever watched in a movie where it wasn't too graphic but it was so much more believable because that's actually what happens and you're like , wow , that's perfect , because they depicted in a way that we actually were , not just you're kissing , and then it pans away and comes back and oh yay , that's not , that's not reality .
Speaker 3Yes , they . Neil Patrick Harris did a great rom-com it was on Netflix and things last year and it shows him going on like a Tinder type of date I guess Grindr or maybe not and he the guy is way too big and he's a bottom . And it shows him .
Speaker 2I watched that episode . I watched that . It was so good .
Speaker 3It was so good . Yes , you saw it . It's great , it's honest and it demystifies and all the straight people with phobias can watch it and be like , oh , they're just , they're just people .
Speaker 2Wait are you ?
Speaker 1saying that gay people are just people , that's controversial in 2024 , so controversial I think that's the biggest problem is that straight people can't accept that .
Speaker 2They can't accept that . No they can't . We are just normal , just like everybody else , and also we're just as boring . We're just as annoying , just as irritating , just as boring . We just as annoying , just as irritating , just as wonderful , just as fabulous as speak for yourself Every other straight person .
Speaker 3Sexuality exists in almost all animals . I mean everywhere we look for it , we find it . So I think , empathy we're . We're generally're generally . The running theme of this whole show , which I love , has been empathy . We talked about communication and talking about , you know , being honest with yourself and trying to judge other people who are different , whose choices are different from you or whose genetics or whatever . It's all the same thing , it's all empathy , it's all the ability to realize that other people are not you .
Speaker 2Exactly . I mean , that's the whole point of the show is that you know everyone's different , but sometimes we're all actually the same and we just need to have that understanding and empathy , like you say , to understand that . You know what , If you're a little bit different , if your kinks are a little bit different to mine , if you are a person that likes certain things that I don't like , it's all good , we're all beautiful . Yes , I believe if we could be more empathetic and kinder .
Speaker 3some of the incompatibilities that spread trauma might not happen . If we could be more honest about what we want and need in sex , there would be less coercion . I would know fewer wives who felt they had to do things that traumatized them , because they could have been at liberty to be more honest and gone and found somebody who fit that need instead of lying and hiding and having destructive things happen to their relationship . Right , I think it's why we can't be honest about sex . I don't know . It's very weird , Because if you get honest about it , it's actually just sex . It's a great thing , but it's like drinking water or eating food .
Speaker 2It becomes good sex .
Speaker 3Yes , one would hope right and it can be transcending . If you're in love with somebody and it's missionary , with candlelight and flowers , sure transcendent . But you know what's also sometimes okay it's just sports sex with an app date that turns you on that night , that's okay .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , hey man it preaches to us , because it's just sex . You're a big fan .
Speaker 3That's cool .
Speaker 1We're getting different needs from it , and that's cool . Sex can be a wholly intimate , beautiful , tantric thing between two people where their souls are colliding and fucking fireworks are going off . And then sex can be a thing where you literally go to the toilet , pull up porn hub and have a fap on the toilet because you just need to get off in that particular moment in time , and it can be anywhere in between , right or if you want to be five people together , hey , it is what it is five ten , fifteen twenty I mean that's cool pretty much pretty much we .
Speaker 1We've got this show to be sponsored by kleenex and , uh , the water corporation , because I'm basically always in the toilet , that's so good , you know , frankly sec is also very often funny .
Speaker 3It's vulnerable you're naked it makes funny noises and smells you're , you're letting somebody see your whole body and be in there , and it actually is kind of a funny thing and that's beautiful too , right , oh I have to say it's so funny .
Speaker 2So because I think the best sex I think I've ever had was the funniest sex I've ever had , and I think we both laughed throughout the whole time . It was . I don't know why it was funny , but we laughed and at the end of it I'm like that was amazing . It was so funny because in the moment you realize you know what this is actually hilarious . This is everything we're doing to each other , with each other . It's funny and it was so good .
Speaker 3You just made me think about that just then you're funny sex .
Speaker 3That's great that you remember
Exploring Sexual Education and Communication
Speaker 3it . No , I mean , I look I was very lucky . My first sexual experience it was 18 in one day and it was with somebody that I was in love with for years and and so I think my first impression of sex was positive and even through some negative ones , I was lucky to carry that with me . What it could be . I think I couldn't fix people who definitely had some sexual problems , nor was I qualified or there to do that . But I think some levity can be very important . I've catered to lots of fetishes and things and it can be very funny and that's a good thing , right ? I think 99% of people are looking for connection , whether that's in sex , work or civilian relationships , but connection , you know , I have a neighbor here in New York . She's a very powerful young career lady , super busy , super successful , young . She like just wants to have sex with a hot guy and then get back to work , cause that's the chapter in life she's in right now and you know it's fine .
Speaker 2It's fine , I love that .
Speaker 3All things for all people . The key would be honesty , so that you're not inflicting trauma right um absolutely I think , don't do to other people what they don't want done to them . That's that , what's it that's all . The only way to figure that out is communication and conversation I knew a guy who torpedoed his whole marriage because he found out he really liked like orgies and swinger stuff and he didn't know that when he was younger and his wife tried it and just couldn't get on board with him so they divorced um that's sort of sad but um , but they're co-parenting and doing it and he's living the way he wants sexually and she is .
Speaker 2It would be great if we lived in the world , if he's happy , you know . I mean it'd be beautiful if we were all perfectly compatible , but that's not always the case , right but that's not always the case , and this is the whole point of um divorce and relations breaking up . Right you , at some point you do get honest with yourself and you realize . You know what we . We're not that compatible as much as we thought we might've been .
Speaker 1Yeah , and like you talked about with that sexual fluidity as well , like that we change over time . You know , you , you might get into a relationship not knowing that you're into something , and then you get into something and you're like , oh shit , actually I really like that , and sometimes with really good communication and you know , a lot of sort of exploration self-exploration , partner exploration . Sometimes you can go there together and it can open up a relationship into some incredible spaces , but sometimes it also doesn't work like that .
Speaker 3I think when couples want to try to keep things compatible , I think a coach like somebody like you is pretty important , because navigating that can be tricky but is entirely possible . As you've said , sometimes going to a pro like a sex therapist or a counselor is a really good idea .
Speaker 1Yeah , absolutely yeah , because there's a lot of things out there as well that people don't know , that they don't understand yet and they're not . There's so much shame around certain things that they don't want to go there and unpack it and they might not even know about it . Because sex is one of these things that you leave school , you do your couple of sex ed classes in high school and then you're full bottle on it . You don't need to learn anymore . So we never really investigate it anymore , we never really try to educate ourselves , and that leads to a massive problem , because if we're not educated on something , we just don't know what we're missing out on . Or we don't know if we are missing out on a certain part of our personality or our sexuality . We don't know if we are missing out on a certain part of our personality or our sexuality . So it becomes this huge thing where the job is actually to re-educate somebody and give them these insights and then allow them to sort of make up their own mind with that new information .
Speaker 3The big problem comes from having no information at all . One of the best sex partners I ever had was a guy who , uh , a girlfriend and he had broken up when he was pretty young , like right out of college , and uh , she had said that the sex was dissatisfactory and he was bruised and battered by that emotionally , as you are .
Speaker 3But he went to a professional like sex therapist , coach and dude learned some techniques like yeah , I really enjoyed dating with him because this dude , he figured out how important hands are and he was like oh yes he knew his . That dude knew his way around a vagina and it was like we're far older , now he's's married , she's a lucky lady . Like good for her . He had gone to a pro and like flat out said look , I'm here , I want to be better with women's bodies , yeah , and dude , let's win .
Speaker 2Anybody can get better . Anybody can literally get better . I think that's the idea that I'm going to put men under the pump here , but , unfortunately , sorry guys . But I I'm gonna put men under the pump here , but unfortunately , sorry guys . But I feel like men think that they know it all and , like Jordan's saying , you do a little bit of sex education in school , you watch a little bit of porn , you maybe sleep with two or three people , and then they think that there are these gods that just know every woman's or every man's button that they're gonna press . And it's like bruh , you will be learning for the rest of your life , because every woman , every man is different . So the one woman that you meet that loves this certain kind of touch , there's going to be another one that doesn't . I mean , I had the most horrible experience of my life last weekend where I had a guy that decided that teeth was a really good way of giving head . No , oh my , yes , yes . It was a horrible , scary experience and I was paying .
Speaker 1I was in pain for three days but , sorry I thank you , did you hook up with Mr Ed again ?
Speaker 2Shut up you . Did he meet somebody ?
Speaker 3once who was into that , because you know you name it . Somebody's into it , like that seems really rare , but where the fuck did he come from ?
Speaker 2That's what I got from it because , well , I feel like there has to have been someone has said to him that this is a good thing , because the idea that it wasn't just I mean , you can tell when someone's just not good at it and there's a little bit of teeth here and there , but this person was full on going with the teeth and I was like at some point thought someone's told this dude that this is a great thing or that's what they were into , and he's gone . I'm going to do it to everybody .
Speaker 3And again , you think you know , but there's always space to learn . Just bad , I mean 99.99 or whatever percent of people know like , although everything's out there
Navigating Intimacy and Aging Relationships
Speaker 3. I remember going flying to columbus , ohio , to meet somebody who was not from there , but this person , uh , you think it's a normal date . One thing leads to another . Because you like each other , all the normal stuff is happening , and he is not getting a chub at all . And I'm like , oh no , he hates me , right , he's not , there's no chemistry . No , he finally leveled with me that the only thing that gave him like a chubber was pain , and I mean real pain and I'm , you know , BDSM .
Speaker 3But like the harder I kicked him in the balls , harder he got . And I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself , and this was end of the bell curve . That's not something you see a lot .
Speaker 3That's not something anybody would just go for and be like , hey , let me kick you in the nuts and see if it gives you direction . Dude , Exactly , Most guys are going to be like no thanks , Satan , get away . But this was this person . I actually , uh , we dated a couple more times and then I bowed out . Because what started to scare me is if , if pain is literally pleasure for this person , would he start thinking that that was the case for me , which it is not ?
Speaker 3exactly , exactly he never did nothing bad , ever happened . But I I didn't mean to be judgmental , but that was a bit much for me . Like teeth , like old teethy blowjob is probably not going to be your next boyfriend , absolutely not . I assume there's a wedding coming , that this is the man for you I'll buy you guys a dental plan if it is the way Right . Now , you're nice and exfoliated , or not , but like yeah , I mean , but there's . You're not horrible . You seem to everything dude .
Speaker 2I mean there's somebody into everything there's going to be someone out there that's going to love those teeth .
Speaker 3It's just not me . Did you kind of try to start saying like that's not my thing and he just ignored you , or it was ?
Speaker 2it was such an awkward situation that I didn't know what to do , and there was a moment where I'm like the only thing I can do is just pull away and hope that he understands . And at some point that's exactly what I just had to pull away and be like you know what Sorry that's when you just say blowjobs aren't really my thing ,
Speaker 3I'm not that into oral sex . I like to do this other thing instead .
Speaker 2The funny part is blowjobs are not my thing and I'm not really into oral sex at all . Really , I just thought I'd give it a go and it really yeah . And for me that was the moment where I realized you know what . Yes , I'm definitely not into this .
Speaker 3Are blowjobs not your thing because of this man ? It sounds like that would do it for me .
Speaker 2Well , now it's definitely done . Before it was like 50-50 , now it's like 20 .
Speaker 3Just you know , next one be like only if you've got tiny little teeth and big lips or just you know what , take your false teeth , outcomes , I mean yeah , go for the over 95 year old set , you won't have to worry about teeth . Sorry , I was ageist , just watch internet just watch out for sti .
Speaker 1So because the sti rates in nursing homes has gone crazy , you know . But if you do end up there , this is true with those old people wait what but no , thank you , I'm good , I'm good it's true , sti sti rates are actually skyrocketing , skyrocketing in , uh , nursing homes , because basically there's this whole thing that old people don't have sex but they actually do and they are not being taught that . There are all these things that are still around , that you know and , of course , you can't get an FBI from an older person , but yeah , I once went on a date with a very that's the oldest of all the ones I ever met and lovely gentlemen , brilliant , former career , funny .
Speaker 3Um , it took him a while to move around and stuff and he was unashamed he would fly in women for dates to this particular fancy hotel . He didn't give a shit what anybody thought he was a widow , widower and uh , and talked about her , which broke my heart . Uh , clearly had been very in love . Uh , I'm sure he's gone now . I haven't googled him . But um , the weirdest was the second day . We're getting ready to go have breakfast and he gets his like you know those like sunday , monday , tuesday , wednesday pill things . He had that and he looks at me and opens it and goes if I don't take these I'll die .
Speaker 1Oh Lord .
Speaker 3He was lonely but I was terrified I might break him .
Speaker 2Oh , my days .
Speaker 3That is hilarious .
Speaker 1And if that doesn't turn you on , Amy , nothing will .
Speaker 3Dude , boss it , boss it .
Speaker 1You know , I once heard a story from a friend of ours . He is a very wealthy guy and he had this next-door neighbor , no-transcript Decides to go and pop a couple of Viagras and you know , when you're in your early 80s it's maybe one of those things that might have a heart problem . So he ended up having a heart attack and getting wheeled out with the biggest erection any of the paramedics have ever seen . So the paramedics have ever seen oh , people do have sex . At least they try if they take their meds .
Speaker 3You know what ? My grandmother . She spent the last decade and a half of her life in assisted living in Europe because she was a European citizen . So for healthcare reasons she went back there and we just came to visit all the time , instead of keeping her in America where she wasn't eligible for insurance , whatever . Anyway , when we first put her there and she loved it , that's where all her friends were , that's where she had lived for decades before , but she was never in her apartment . We would call and we thought , oh , do we need one of those like flashing lights , maybe she can't hear the phone ? Uh , and we called downstairs and they said well , we'd like to let you know that the reason is that she has met someone and she's always in his apartment . She was like 92 , he was only 84 , so he was a younger man .
Speaker 1Toy boy I like that 92 .
Speaker 2He was still interested , I know someone that got married At 82 82 years old . It was the cutest story I've ever heard .
Speaker 3Like why , but also , that's awesome .
Speaker 2I can't imagine I just got married and then , like five years later , oh , maybe that's what I'll do .
Speaker 3I'll get married at like 80 and by the time he hates me I'll be dead .
Speaker 2So brilliant relationship because , it'll be honeymoon period . I'm up here for five years and then you're gone .
Speaker 1Oh man , I love it yeah .
Speaker 3I think it's a lot Like if I ever get married , it will be the stories I joke about and I try to have empathy for , and some of the ones that are tougher . It'll be a lot for somebody to unpack . You know , maybe we'll hire Jordan It'll , but I , you know , maybe we'll hire Jordan It'll , but I believe . I believe it's possible to be survivors with all of the things that happened to us . I have to believe that and even if I'm wrong , I don't really care .
Speaker 3We're all here on a journey . I like that . Even even through the years of sex work , I I still want and love physical intimacy . I really do . So that's hopeful , um , and the degree to which I was in relationships with deep power , imbalances , where I was not always at liberty to be totally living in my truth . Well , that's probably been been true for certainly for the weaker one , which was typically women , for all of human history . And yet people survived and loved , and so I think I will too . If you know , it's like being in the last round of the draft pick . I think somebody will be like this is what's left . We're both bruised and battered , but maybe we love each other and uh let's do it .
Speaker 3Yeah , maybe that'll just have to be okay .
Speaker 1I think if , uh , what we've seen here today , I think you're not just going to survive it , you're going to thrive absolutely amazing , and I actually think that we could probably talk all day and probably all night and just keep having this banter .
Speaker 3We'll have to get you on for a second episode , I think . Amy and I'd love to learn more from you . We didn't talk as much about EMDR and maybe somatic therapy , but I mean some of those new therapies which I'm sure you know . This is your world . I'd love to talk about do another episode .
Speaker 1Yeah , let's get into that . We'll definitely hook up for another episode . And yeah , amy , this has been amazing . If people want to know more , find out about you , work with you . Where can they find you ?
Speaker 3Oh yeah , so I still do some modeling , even over 40 . And so most of that is what you'll see on the socials . I'm amytaylornyc on most of them , but I like to talk about my past life , and then you know . If you want to see my nonsense of pretty pictures and videos , that's on there too .
Speaker 1So get in touch and say hi , awesome , we'll put the link in the show notes . We'll put the link to your Insta as well , and , yeah , this has been amazing . Thank you so much for sharing your insights and we'll definitely be having another chat soon .
Speaker 3Love that . Thank you for being an ally to those of us who've had trauma . Really appreciate what you do .
Speaker 1My pleasure .
Speaker 2Well , it was great to speak to you , Amy , and hopefully we'll definitely have another episode with you soon .
Speaker 3I'd love that .
Speaker 1Awesome Over and out . Thanks , guys , see you guys . All right , fam , we've come full circle on this deep dive into sex , positivity , trauma and everything else we squirm about over brunch . I want to say a huge thanks to Amy for being so open , hilarious and real with us today . I mean , we hit it all . We hit why aging doesn't mean losing your spark , how humor might just be your best move in the bedroom and that golden rule of relationships communication . So , whether you're a diamond under pressure , a fan of missionary as lit or just working on embracing your unique brand of sexy , remember a little resilience and a lot of honesty go a long way . And hey , if you like this episode , give us a follow on social media and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform . Your support keeps us bringing you this juicy stuff . Catch us next time for more laughs , lessons and , let's be honest , probably a little bit of oversharing . Until then , keep it super and keep it sexy Over and out .
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