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Super Sex
This is an 18+ podcast!
Welcome to Supersex—the podcast where you get to dive into all things sex and relationships without it ever getting boring!
Ever wondered how talking about sex could actually be fun? Well, here’s where you find out. We’ve got a queer guy and a straight dude ready to dish out the tea, share the cringey moments, and keep it as real (and hilarious) as it gets.
Every episode is packed with the good stuff—the latest research, wild stories, and a ton of laughs, so you get to learn about sex and relationships without feeling like you're in a classroom.
Curious about what’s new in sexual health? Need advice on navigating the dating jungle? Or maybe you just wanna hear about someone else’s relationship fails to feel better about your own? We got you!
From first dates to kink, we're breaking down the science and making it all relatable to you so you can implement the good stuff into your sex life and get rid of the bad.
Expect personal stories, guest experts, and, of course, a bunch of jokes. Get ready to laugh, learn, and maybe even rethink a few things about love and intimacy.
So tune in, because you deserve to have fun while figuring out this whole sex and relationship thing!
Super Sex
Episode 48: Polyamory Explained: Can You Really Love More Than One Person?
Have you ever questioned why we limit romantic love to just one person when we don't apply the same restrictions to friendships, family relationships, or parental love? This thought-provoking episode with sexologist Kate Campbell challenges everything you thought you knew about relationship structures.
We dive deep into what polyamory actually means—and what it doesn't. Forget the stereotypes of commitment-phobic people or hypersexual escapades. Polyamory (poly = many, amory = love) is about creating multiple committed, loving relationships with consent and communication at the core. Kate shares her journey from skepticism to embracing polyamory, realizing that what society taught her about "finding the one" never quite fit her authentic self.
The conversation tackles jealousy head-on, reframing it not as a relationship killer but as an opportunity for growth. When someone in a polyamorous relationship feels jealous, they're encouraged to explore why—what insecurity or fear lies beneath the surface? This practice creates emotional intelligence that monogamous relationships might never develop simply because they avoid these triggering situations altogether.
We explore fascinating parallels between relationship structures and other aspects of identity. Many neurodivergent individuals find polyamory aligns better with how they naturally form connections. We discuss the problematic double standards (why is a man with multiple female partners seen as powerful while a woman with multiple male partners is questioned?), the historical roots of monogamy in patriarchal control systems, and the practical considerations of time management and sexual health.
Whether you're polycurious, happily monogamous, or somewhere in between, this episode offers valuable insights about communication, emotional intelligence, and expanding your capacity for love. As Kate beautifully puts it, "Love is not a finite resource—you get more by giving more and having more."
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Welcome back to Super Sex, the podcast that isn't afraid to ask hard questions and maybe get a little emotionally entangled while we're at it. I'm your host, jordan Walker, and today we're diving into the world of polyamory the art, the science and sometimes chaos of loving more than one person on purpose. So, whether you're polycurious, polypracticing or just here to figure out what the heck a kitchen table polycule is, you're in the right place. Joining me today is the brilliant no bullshit sexologist and psychologist, kate Campbell. Together, we're breaking down what polyamory is, what it isn't, and why love doesn't have to follow a one-size-fits-all script. Spoiler alert jealousy isn't the villain that we think it is. So grab your headphones, maybe a calendar, because we're unpacking, scheduling sex and the surprising freedom that comes from building relationships your own way. Let's get into it. Hey, to all the straights, gays and nays, welcome to Supersex, the podcast where we have conversations and share our perspectives on sexuality, sex and more. I'm Sheldon and I'm Jordan Two friends, one straight one gay taking on all things sex.
Speaker 1:So this beautiful voice that you can hear is Kate Campbell.
Speaker 3:Hello.
Speaker 1:Back again, my love. How are you?
Speaker 3:I'm good, I've got my heat pack, got my drink, I'm ready to talk about sex stuff. Yes, so excited.
Speaker 1:It's good, it's good, it's good. Now. You were on an episode a couple of weeks back talking about herpes, yes, and loved it so much that we got you in for seconds. But it seems as though we're going to be getting you in for thirds, fourths, fifths, maybe sixths, and carrying on from everywhere.
Speaker 3:Maybe infinity.
Speaker 1:Maybe that would be awesome.
Speaker 3:To infinity and beyond of super sex Buzz light yeah, oh, I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you are going to be one of the new co-hosts on super sex.
Speaker 3:Thank, you for having me.
Speaker 1:Oh it's great, no, I'm really excited. It's really going to add like a different dynamic to the pod, though, because you come at it from that psychology, sexology background. I've got the educational background and for those of you listening now, um, sherman is stepping away from the pod for a little bit, um, and then basically yourself and tush are going to be coming in and we're going to form like this dynamic trio.
Speaker 3:A trio of dips, yeah, or drips, drips.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm definitely a drip.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we can pick what fluid of drip we are.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, and maybe we should conflab on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we've got to talk about that one a little bit more. Not me. I'll choose some horrible, disgusting thing, horrible disgusting thing, and tasha's definitely going to choose something weird yeah but um, yeah. So I think from now on in we're going to hit this pod from your psychology perspective and your sexology perspective. My educational background and tasha's medical back background what like a biopsychosocial model? Oh yeah, who would have thought that would have been a good idea. Right let's triangulate that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it will be so much fun. It will be so much fun, but today what are we talking? About.
Speaker 3:We're going to talk about polyamory.
Speaker 1:Polyamory I know fuck all about this. I know what polyamory. Polyamory I know fuck all about this. I know what polyamory means.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:Outside of that, like I see what you see on TV and like fat white guys sitting there going, oh you know, fucking people are retarded for going down polyamory and they must be sick and what's wrong with them, and stuff like that. Like I know nothing about it. And I mean I'm in a monogamous marriage and that is. That's obviously my choice, but there are different choices out there of lifestyles and relationships and I want to get into this cause. I want to understand and not just sit there and go huh.
Speaker 3:Okay, let me start with a story because, like I, when I got introduced to polyamory as a concept, it was very much sold to me as something that people who couldn't choose, couldn't commit, you know, couldn't lock down the one. That was just something that they fell into and it wasn't all that legitimate. It was just sort of something that people did while they were sorting out and, you know, waiting for the one to show up, and I found that interesting at the time but obviously really incorrect and problematic.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So that was when it first came into my sphere of attention. And then I was dating someone for a little while and that's fine. We broke up, we remained friends and he sort of said to me oh you know, I'm polyamorous, so I've now got a couple of partners.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And in my head it was that sort of well, you know, of course you are like just so bloody noncommittal, like of course you can't stick to one person, right? So I have never really had a positive spin on things and then fast forward a few years, moved to vancouver for a couple of years and I met a lot of people in the non-monogamy and polyamory scene, yeah, and I saw it done beautifully yeah and I saw the, the communication, the dynamics, what, what was possible, and I thought, oh, like, actually this is amazing.
Speaker 3:And then something tweaked in my mind and I thought, well, actually this is probably more aligned with who I am. And the more I got to understand what it meant and what it was, I could see that I, in fact, was probably always orientated this way. But in previous relationships, when I started feeling things for other people whilst I was in a relationship, I made that mean that that wasn't the one.
Speaker 3:Right, okay, so if I'm having feelings for someone else, then this obviously isn't the right thing for me. So I need to leave it, or I need to sabotage it, or it's not the.
Speaker 2:Thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's like this whole social script that we always come up with right, like, if you're not head over heels in love with one person, it's not right and you should run a million miles away from it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And like that gets passed down from like fucking Disney and all sorts of you know. Oh 100%.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm re-watching Alias at the moment Such a terrible show. But one of the scenes is you know, one guy is asking another guy do you think you can be in love with two people at the same time? Because you know he's married to his wife, who he loves, and he's got this other person, who's you know, come back from the dead because it's alias and you know, like he was in love with her, yeah, and the friend is like no, I don't think you can. And that's the trope of so many things that we watch, is that there's always this love triangle and someone has to pick, someone misses out. You can't have more than one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's, I think, people from what I understand as well. With polyamory. They think that a traditional relationship you give 100% to your partner and then you're expected to then give 100% of yourself to multiple other partners, which I suppose, when you think about it, that's almost an impossibility though, because, like you, just don't have that time or that energy or that ability even to be able to do that. So it's almost like we're segregated into different parts of our personalities and when we find partners who resonate with a particular part of our personalities, we can sort of match it up there and bring those people into a relationship. Is that the way it sort of works, or am I just completely like off top with that?
Speaker 3:Well, I didn't quite get. Was there a question there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, can you give 100% of yourself to more than one person or do you have to choose the parts that you're giving out in like a polyamorous relationship?
Speaker 3:Okay, can I answer your question with a question?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Take away when we talk about, like a polyamorous relationship, take away the fact that we're talking about, or what people expect, that we're talking about romantic or sexual love.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Are you expected to give 100% of yourself to each of your loving friendships, to each parent, to each child, to each important person in your life.
Speaker 1:That's true. That's true. You don't do you Like. I mean, I suppose you do when you're invested. Within that moment you're there, you're present, you're giving it 100%, Absolutely, but you're not there 100% of the time. No, so, yeah, I suppose it's a yes and a no, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 3:I find what people seem to struggle with with poly a lot of the time. There's a few things, though, like first of all, when we talk about polyamory we're not talking about like just sleeping around. So consensual non-monogamy is that. You know that huge smorgasbord of things that you can do. That is not monogamy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it all has different boundaries and different like partnerships and different, you know, consent structures, all these sorts of things. Polyamory is one of those things and essentially poly, many amory love. So it's being involved in many committed loving relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you can do that. You know you can have a hierarchy, so you've got like a primary partner and then a few other like partners that you might see, or like boyfriends, girlfriends, whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You might have. You know, like no hierarchical structure, so everyone's just on the same playing field same level. People are solo polyamory, so they might actually be a single human and they have multiple partners, who they don't live with, who they don't have a life commitment to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so just like various branches and various ways that you can take it, based on your personality and the partners that you're getting with.
Speaker 3:So that's one part to consider. And then the other part is in what other style of love would we restrict people to one? So if people have many children and you would never say, oh, I'm sorry, you can only love one of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You can only love one sibling. You can only love one sibling, you can only love one parent.
Speaker 2:Pick a friend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3:And then I would say, like when people say, but why polyamory? I would say where did monogamy come from? Why are we so into this whole thing of I have to find the one? Like, if I don't find this one person to partner with for the rest of my life, what?
Speaker 1:Yeah and that like there's been a heap of studies around monogamy and like evolutionary stuff you know, and like there's problems with evolutionary sort of theories anyway, yeah, but I mean, what was the one that I did see that the majority of relationships break down three years after the birth of a child.
Speaker 3:Seriously.
Speaker 1:Not the majority, but, like the ones that do break up, it's a significant portion that break up three years after the birth of a child. Okay, and this evolutionary theorist posited that that was basically because it takes three years for a kid to become self-sufficient yeah at which point then, they can go their separate ways, because a kid can look after themselves. Basically, right, and you know the? The mother's always going to be attached to the kid, but the father doesn't need to be anymore. So, yeah, like it's weird.
Speaker 3:But then when you look at like the history of monogamy you know like where does it all come? From, and a lot of the time it actually comes down and people can come and fight me on this if they want to.
Speaker 1:That's fine, but it comes down to um possession and control of women yes to continue a patriarchal line yep, and that's that often gets sort of um written up as a religious thing. Yep, but actually it's that patriarchy that sits above the religion and that's using the religion as a way to throw it down the line and just be like you know what? Fuck it. This is what we want. We're going to give you the story through religion and you guys are going to gobble it up because that's what we want.
Speaker 1:But they did, they really, really did, and they like there was religious laws that came out that said that you couldn't do it. Like medieval England, you basically had to be with that one person. You know, you could not go outside of that relationship. If you went out, like even if your partner died, like you were then expected to go and get another monogamous relationship because you needed to pump out the kids for society, basically. So yeah, monogamy was the thing, because if they had people running around, then in their view, I think what they were thinking is that everybody was going to get syphilis and die.
Speaker 2:Cool yeah.
Speaker 1:So if you can keep them monogamous and they'll live happily ever after, yeah, they're not going to get syphilis and they're not going to die. So you know, there it is. So, yeah, it's a weird fucking thing like how societies have been controlled forever, because some dude said so.
Speaker 3:But at the same time, right like. So there's the idea of monogamy, so you commit to this one person, and my argument would be that if it works so well for everyone, we wouldn't have such high rates of infidelity.
Speaker 2:True, true.
Speaker 3:So and that's? I don't think that that's a gendered thing. I think both you know, any gender will have, you know, the feelings to stray. Yeah, just the more I think about it and look into it, the more it just baffles me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the more.
Speaker 3:I think about it and look into it, the more it just baffles me. Yeah, and like I think it's good to preface that I'm not anti-monogamy at all, I think it's a legitimate choice whether people want to do it in a serial fashion. So go from one monogamous to another or they want to, you know, just find the one and stick with that person forever, you know through hell or high water, whatever, but I don't think it's the only legitimate way to relate to people.
Speaker 1:No, and it can't be, because what you said just before made a hell of a lot of sense. Like you don't sit there and go. Oh, you know, you can only love one kid, or you can only love one grandparent or one sibling, so why can't you love more than one person at a time?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know why we've put this restriction on ourselves and as a society that you know we can't, yeah, like, have that, you know, beautiful, loving, romantic, sexual, emotional, intelligent connection with someone.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Why does it only have to be one? And we don't. We would never expect any of our friends to be absolutely everything to us.
Speaker 3:You know like we, most people, have a selection or a collection of people in their lives that you know spark their, spark their intelligence or spark their, you know, like fun, loving side, like this is this person that I love to go and climb with and this is this person that I love to hang out and play games with and be quiet with and read books with and, you know, go on adventures or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And we somehow have this thing in our brain that if we find, you know, a romantic partner, they have to fulfill all of these parts, which is a huge ask.
Speaker 1:And it is so rare, yeah, so rare, yeah, like there's got to be a very, very special set of circumstances for two people to come together that click on 100% of things.
Speaker 1:Yeah people to come together that click on a hundred percent of things. Yeah, and that doesn't happen, because we evolve over time as well and our personalities change. Like a lot of people sit there and go, no, you've got a fixed personality and you've got fixed likes and dislikes and all that sort of stuff. Just like our sexuality, our personality is constantly changing and evolving. So you might even come together as 100% on the same level.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But five, ten years in, there's going to be differences.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it just makes sense then that if you've got a relationship structure where you can sort of have different people, where you know you could sit there and go okay, I'm going to go climbing with this person or reading with this person, or I'm going to go and get drunk and party with that person, like it totally makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because not everybody likes doing that sort of stuff, and then that if you do force somebody into that, that could potentially be a bit of a pressure point within a relationship.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I mean you wonder why there's so much infidelity, though, going on. I imagine because people feel a great amount of pressure.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you know stress and I don't know insecurity. You know how can I possibly continue to meet all of these expectations? I'm one person, yeah.
Speaker 1:A lot of it. I think I read an interesting article the other day and it was quoting figures around the mid-20s so 2024 rings a bell, so 24 rings a bell. Might have got that a little bit wrong, but about 24% of monogamous relationships will have some form of infidelity.
Speaker 3:I feel like that's a really low estimate.
Speaker 1:And that's only the ones who have actually said yes, I've done it, you don't know, how many people have been willing to come out. So they said 24% of this, but the majority of those 24% when they got asked why, it wasn't about a physical thing. It was an emotional thing, rarely just a sexual thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think that is where that link to polyamory could be in, you know, because people are wanting more emotional connection and sometimes they just don't get it within the confines of a monogamous relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, like most guys are out there fucking brain dead at times within relationships and they just don't give to their partners. And then of course it's going to happen?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, and on the flip side, like a lot of guys do cheat, and that quite often is because that how can I say this? Sex can be weaponized by some women. But what? When they weaponize sex and use it as a thing to be like you know what? I'm only going to give this to you. When you do this, that breaks down that emotional connection Of course. And when that gets broken down, the guy starts looking for emotional connection and intimate connection. But that always gets played out in a physical way first.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you know it's both male. Females are looking for emotional connection and that's why they're cheating.
Speaker 3:Absolutely yeah, and the thing is is that there's that breakdown of communication there, because you'll find that people, generally speaking, people who are doing polyamory, well their communication skills are like oh, chef's kiss, we still struggle with it, yeah, but you know we see value in the discomfort and the hard conversations and that's where you know, that's where the connection it's like. When you work to build more connection, you get more love and that then you get more and then more comes. So it's not a scarcity game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's an addition thing. You're constantly adding to it by getting better and developing those skills and moving forward right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Now here's a question that I've always had on the back of my head. Can like, let's say, you've got a monogamous couple, what's the likelihood that they're going to be able to sit there and transfer that relationship to a polyamorous style of relationship successfully Like can people do that, or is it more like you've got to start from scratch?
Speaker 3:No, I think that they can. I think people can do anything that they want to do. The question would be like what is the motivation?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And actually I've recently, in the last couple of years, seen friends do this.
Speaker 1:Right, okay.
Speaker 3:Yep. So I had a couple of friends who were monogamous. They'd been together for a really long time and they never actually considered that either would be poly yeah um, and I got a message from one of them a couple of years ago saying I I I've met someone else and um spoken to you know my partner about it, and I think I might actually be poly because I have really strong feelings for this person and so we chatted about it Like her primary relationship flourished with this.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:And now you know, she's a lucky bitch has two really beautiful male partners.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:And the second partner. He's married.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So you know they're friends with the wife and we're all friends and like yeah, I've definitely seen it happen, so it's a possibility. Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I think a lot of people would think that as soon as another person gets added to within a relationship, that part of the relationship is going to then suffer.
Speaker 3:But suffer. In what way?
Speaker 1:Well, suffer because the person's not there and not around and is one of the better words diluting their attention.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:But as those words came out of my mouth, I was more just sitting there thinking well, yes, the person might not be there as much in terms of time, but the time that they are there, they're probably far more present, and that's where a relationship is going to really blossom, right, because you're actively putting that time in towards it. It's quality over quantity, exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And the other thing to consider is like whether, okay, so let's say, for hypotheticals you and your wife decide to branch out and be poly. So if you're going out and you're spending like an afternoon with a new partner, and that's time that you're not spending here, you're going out there and you're fulfilling a very key part of yourself yes and you're bringing joy to yourself. You're going to come home and, like you, are a whole, fulfilled person coming home.
Speaker 3:Like you've gone out to do something and be with someone that actually you know brings you joy and like adds to your world. Yeah, You're going to come home with like that shine in your eyes and you know you're going to be like heck, yeah, life.
Speaker 1:Life is awesome, and then that would obviously rub off onto the partner who's at home and they're going to get those good vibes and happiness and whatnot.
Speaker 3:That's the key. Yeah, that's what we're sort of aiming for. That's compersion, right is that joy?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Joy in seeing the people that you love really, really happy.
Speaker 1:And I think that compersion is basically the underlier of all C& CNN relationships. Absolutely, because, basically, you want to see the person happy and like. The opposite of compersion is jealousy and that's where, like a lot of people who know nothing about poly, like me, I'm just sitting there going, oh my God, like how much jealousy would be in a relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I suppose people who are in poly relationships, like you just said, have got amazing communication skills to be able to work around that right.
Speaker 3:Well, the point of, I guess, the difference between people who there's a huge difference between people who avoid jealousy as if it's going to just go away, which it doesn't because, at the core of jealousy is feeling threatened, that something that you possess is going to get taken. Right so envy is a little bit different, where you want what someone else has.
Speaker 3:Yes, you can be envious, but feeling jealous of a partner means that you feel threatened. You are feeling threatened and insecure that they will be taken away from you. And if you get these feelings and you lean into them and work on why that is coming up because it's basically going to be fear, insecurity, like something is there and people who do CNM and poly well will see that as an opportunity for growth and they'll lean in as uncomfortable and yucky as it is and be like okay, I'm really jealous, what is that about? Like, what is that about?
Speaker 1:Because that would then lead into a really rich discussion about potentially there's something, some other form of insecurities within a relationship. Like they feel there might be like an inadequacy here or there might be something that needs work on over there or something like that right. So the jealousy thing is like a mechanism, a way to continually build if it's done in that right manner.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's this. I think it's definitely a myth, because a lot of people in monogamous relationships will say to me oh, I could never do that, I'd be too jealous, and it's like. Well, like, yeah, you probably would experience jealousy, but so does every other human being.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it's not something to be avoided. And you know like, just because you know avoiding anything, because you know avoiding anything doesn't make it go away, sorry everybody. That's why we have psychologists and therapists. But you know, if you avoid it, you're still going to be insecure and feel threatened in your relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's still going to be there.
Speaker 1:And it's probably going to get worse as well, though. Well, yeah, it's not going to get relationship. Yeah, that's still going to be there, and it's probably going to get worse as well, though.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, it's not going to get better.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's not to say that everyone has to go out there and be non-monogamous. But if even thinking about it and you feel like your jealousy would get in the way, god find out what that's about.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, yeah, you know, and like would it if you both had the opportunity to be more happy and whole. Would it be worth talking through some jealousy, don't know, would it?
Speaker 1:I think having those conversations is definitely always a fucking massive thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I got hit up by a guy who his wife was pregnant and got pregnant, didn't have sex for the last few months and then went on for about three months post-birth no intimacy, no, nothing yeah. No intimacy, no, nothing, yeah. And basically what it all came down to is that they're just not talking. Oh, there's no talking, no communication, no intimacy in that communication space. Yeah, so you know, people fucking need to communicate and talk, because if they don't, then everything just goes to shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah it does.
Speaker 1:I mean, and from my understanding as well, people in polyamorous relationships are really really good at having those chats.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I won't say that. That's true across the board. I think I mean I've seen polyamory done very, very poorly, just like anything.
Speaker 1:But what does that look like when it's done poorly though?
Speaker 3:Okay, so I think it's performative.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:So people will sort of say oh, you know like I'm. They'll say you know like I'm poly or whatever. And then they've got all these bizarre rules about and this is usually men about their female partners and what they're allowed to do. So, you know like sometimes poly can be used, as I guess. Sometimes poly can be used, as I guess, an excuse to be non-monogamous, but only on your terms. So if it's very one-sided then it's not really true consensual non-monogamy.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:People cheat in poly Right, so people would assume that that doesn't happen, but in fact it can and does, because the whole idea is that you know if you're interested in another person or you want to, you know, add someone into your intimate space or you want to have another sexual partner. The whole purpose of that is that you check in with your you know, your circle, your partners, and say, hey, like this is what I'm thinking. But yes, there are, like, if you've got certain boundaries or like rules in place for your different relationships and you break them, then of course you can cheat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah as well yeah.
Speaker 3:I guess, yeah, people who just sort of think it's a bit of a trend and go around, you know, breaking hearts and saying, oh you know, sorry, I can't commit, I'm polyamorous. Like everything that gives it a bad name essentially is when it's done poorly.
Speaker 1:Because I was sort of thinking as well, like I can imagine that there are people out there that are just doing it because they want to be seen as cool and edgy as well, and they're just like, oh you know, yeah, yeah, I'm poly, I've got this relationship, but like they're not really doing any of the work necessary to.
Speaker 3:Passively poly.
Speaker 2:Yeah to do it properly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, quite possibly, and then so the the other thing that always gets labeled on is oh, it's just a way to have heaps and heaps of sex with people, because you're just a hypersexual person like god, if only that. The very nature of the word itself, though, doesn't lend itself to that, does it? No, many loves, many loves. We're not saying many gang bangs.
Speaker 3:Exactly, we're not saying you know many boink fests. We're saying many loves.
Speaker 1:Just imagine that as a relationship structure.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'd love to draw the diagram for that. Oh, who's getting gang banged by tonight?
Speaker 1:I'm going to see my 10 boyfriends. It'll be fucking great, yeah. But that's one of these myths that like, basically people are just going out there and just shagging left, right and centre.
Speaker 3:And they might be. They might be, yeah, like if that's part of your deal, go for it, but that's not what polyamory is. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Because it brings it back down to the word love.
Speaker 3:There can be like. There's plenty of people on the ace spectrum that are polyamorous, so there's, you know, little to no sex involved. Yeah, but they have strong, committed, loving relationships with more than one person. Romantic um emotionally connected yeah, they might know there might be no sexual activity there but, it's still valid and still legitimate yeah, and that's an interesting point as well to make.
Speaker 1:Is that, like different sexualities and certain different people with you know neurodivergence as well? Like I read something as well, like people with autism gravitate strongly towards polyamory because it allows them to get their needs met from very specific people in a very specific sort of way, and then they can pull back when they need to. Yeah, so depending on the type of the person, yeah, it might actually be the best relationship style for you absolutely.
Speaker 3:there's a lot of crossover between um neurodivergent people and gender diverse, which which we understand, but there's also a lot of people who are neurodivergent and gender divergent who are also like in those consensual, non-monogamy, like polyam spaces, because I think, you know, that style of brain just cannot be contained in a box no you know, like you can't.
Speaker 3:You can't say this is how a relationship should be, and you have to be a girl, and this is what girls do, and this and a, b and c and this is the rules and they're like fuck you yeah and that's it's so true that that brain style and the way that brain works. Yeah.
Speaker 1:A traditional monogamous relationship would be far more damaging potentially for a person like that Absolutely to try to sit outside of themselves, when that is just not the way that a lot of neurodivergent people work 100%.
Speaker 3:Look, I've got plenty of neurodivergent friends who want monogamy and that's also fine yeah. You know like it's interesting the trends back and forth. Yeah, yeah, yeah like just people who sort of view relationships differently, and I think you know a lot of. The concepts of consensual non-monogamy and polyamory can be beautifully applied to monogamous relationships. Anyway, have you read the Ethical Slut?
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, it's a great book.
Speaker 3:Oh, I love it I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1:I think it's on the table over there actually. Oh my gosh, it is.
Speaker 3:Oh, one of the original editions. Yeah, I enjoyed that book so much and what I loved about it was how so many of the concepts around just making sure all needs are fulfilled and the communication styles and how you relate to people and what you value in relationships can absolutely be applied to monogamy as well, yeah. I think it could actually help people have happier, healthier monogamous relationships.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, because, at the end of the day, it's those skills. A relationship is two people coming together, but that coming together is a transfer of skills almost. Yeah, you know because you need to be able to get that shit across. And if you can't get that shit across, if you can't get your personality across to somebody in a good way, in a respectful way, you've got no chance of having a good, respectful relationship.
Speaker 3:So it's skills yeah.
Speaker 1:It's skills, and that's where a lot of these different relationship structures can actually build that, because you've got to do the work in order to get those skills. Oh, you have to Whereas people who come into monogamy. It's so scripted that you just don't need to work at it, because you're just you know, well, you know what's going to happen next.
Speaker 3:I've been together for a year. Well, we probably should buy a house, or maybe we should have a kid, or we could get married.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll get a house plant. If that survives, we'll get a dog. If the dog survives, then we know that we're ready for a house, and if the house survives, then we'll get a kid. And we should probably find out if we're going to get married somewhere in there as well, even if we don't like each other, because but that's what you do.
Speaker 3:That's what you do. That's the relationship escalator.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in about five to seven years' time we're going to divorce and we're going to try and do it all again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because we're monogamous, that's it yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's that whole part of monogamy is just so fucked up Like I went through it with my previous girlfriend, like we fucked up, like I went through it with my previous previous girlfriend like we hated each other. We fucking hated each other. Oh, it sounds like a beautiful story. It was gorgeous. It was like the opposite of disney. It was um, but like we were just so polar opposite.
Speaker 2:hey, yeah.
Speaker 1:So fucking polar opposites, and it was like cultures were different, everything was different. The way our brains work was different.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like I'm this more like big picture, get out there, just go and live life and love it. And she was just like no, I just to stay, stay here, and just like put myself in this little box and just squirrel away for the rest of my life and I'm like fuck, no, yeah, but nonetheless it was this thing where it was like okay, we've been together three years, let's get engaged. Now we need to start working towards getting married. I got a house.
Speaker 1:We had two, two dogs, two, two cats house, second house, about to get married, and then it all fell on its head just before the marriage because of infidelity oh not on my part, on her part yeah which was very fucking interesting, yeah, but yeah, wow, yeah, yeah, that's the trap of monogamy, and you just get stuck into it and it just does not fucking work for some people.
Speaker 3:No, it doesn't. No, actually, someone had an interesting comment a few months ago to me. They said oh, people who cheat, then they're polyamorous. I'm like no, they're not. That's completely different. So I think there's also like yeah, there's so many different ways to look at how people relate to each other in relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Just because you know you're sleeping with multiple people doesn't mean that you know that you're necessarily geared towards infidelity, or yes? You know, they're not the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you can do it in an ethical way. Yeah, if you are going to be sleeping with a whole heap of different people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like you live your slut era, you do it. Just make sure that you tell everyone.
Speaker 1:And that everybody's okay with it. Yeah, you know, because like it can be really positive and beneficial if you've got those skills to be able to talk about it and get through it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But if you're hiding it, fuck. It just erodes everything.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh.
Speaker 1:Absolutely erodes everything. I did an amazing PD. What was her name? Was it Sandra Pertzo? Sandra Pertzo, and nonetheless, we were talking about couples relationships.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And she was saying that infidelity is not the killer, it's the lying about it that is the killer, because that erodes the bedrock of a relationship yeah so yeah yeah, I can just imagine that gets applied across the board and, you know, within polyamorous relationship.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine. Well, obviously there's going to be shit poly relationships, but I can't imagine it's going to be as a taboo conversation to have in a poly relationship as it is in a monogamous relationship. You know, it's like, hey, I want to go out and sleep with other people, okay, cool, because that relationship structure maybe might allow for that a bit more, whereas in a monogamous relationship it basically means that it's the end of something.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You know, or like people just sweep it under the rug, or they sort of know about it but they choose not to address it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you know, some people have a don't ask, don't tell policy, which is so fine, but then again that's consensual. Yes, they've again that's consensual.
Speaker 1:Yes, they've agreed to that, they've talked about it, yeah, yeah, and yeah, it's about getting that structure within a relationship and reassessing it, maybe throughout the course of the relationship.
Speaker 3:And you know like those dynamics can change, because I know, like a lot of people who you know, like they're in polyamorous situations or you know like non-monogamy or whatever they're doing, and I've seen people sort of then streamline into a more monogamous style for a good couple of years.
Speaker 3:And sometimes that's around kids, sometimes that's just around lifestyle or changes, or they move and they've got to, you know, recreate a scene or recreate, you know, friendship groups. But you know, like, just because people say, oh, you know, we're polyamorous, it's a bit like someone who's bi being with the same, like a same-sex partner, it doesn't mean they're gay, they're still bi.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Or if they're, then with, you know, an opposite-sex partner. They haven't gone straight, they're still bi.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So when people identify their relationship style as being polyamorous, it might not always look like that but it doesn't mean that they're not still.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's an interesting thing to say.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I never thought about that? Because I suppose in my head I would just be sitting there going well, there's only two people in that relationship so it's a monogamous relationship? Yeah, maybe not, but you don't know that. Yeah, yeah, you definitely don't.
Speaker 3:And there's a lot of single like. I'm polyamorous and single at the moment, so I'm very poly, like I love everybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like I'm like, come and give me love, but I also am. I mean, who has the time? Okay, first of all, who has the time for polyamory? Like, hit me up on these calendar things, like how do you organise your shit.
Speaker 1:But also like who can afford monogamy? Who can afford anything anymore?
Speaker 3:Monogamy in this economy, come on.
Speaker 1:It's fucking expensive. That needs seven people. Man. So the time and the sort of money thing is another thing that I suppose that people are wondering about when it comes to this, yeah. As a guy who works uni kid, I get home at the end of the day and I've literally got about half an hour to an hour with my wife and that's it, and for me there's no chance that I could have anything more, because I just simply don't have energy for anything more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, which is why a lot of people come into monogamy when they have kids.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:There's no time or energy.
Speaker 1:And then they flow back out, potentially when that and that's yeah, that's evolution and that you know flow of relationship styles.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've got to have it mapped out at the start, sort of, don't you? You've got to be like, you know this is.
Speaker 3:You've got to at least know who you are.
Speaker 2:Yeah this is where we're going.
Speaker 3:And be willing to work with it. I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I have a sort of a question for you. Okay. Do you think that you can have discordant couples? So could you have a person who is like no, I'm monogamous, that's it be with a poly person? Who practices polyamory. This is a very good question.
Speaker 1:I'm going to say yes if there's consent.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, because one person could totally be monogamous and just be fine with that one partner, yeah, but then the other partner gets to go out and, you know, have the different relationships that they want. But it all needs to be consensual.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Otherwise it's cheating right. Yeah, I would say yes, am.
Speaker 3:I right, oh yeah, yes, okay want, but it all needs to be consensual yes, otherwise it's cheating right. Yeah, yeah, I would say yes, am I right?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah it was more of a gold star for you. It wasn't a right or wrong job, it was just a discussion piece.
Speaker 3:But you know, like I um, I think of, like tilda swinton, right? So she's the actress, she's got a husband and a boyfriend.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I have no idea if the husband or boyfriend have other partners, but I find that really interesting because I'm like maybe the husband's like cool, now I'm married to her, that's fine. She can do whatever she wants, but she's my wife and that's all I need.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I think you absolutely can. So I think you absolutely can. I've personally run into the problem of a partner trying to get on board with Polly and then trying to make everything even Like if you can do that, then I need to be able to do this. But if I want to do this I don't know if I really want you to do that, but I can't make you not. I was like whoa, whoa, back it up, Back it up, sir.
Speaker 1:It's tit for tat yeah but it's not.
Speaker 3:It's like okay, well, what like? Polly can look really different for each person.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 3:So like like someone might want like a basically monogamous relationship and then go on the odd date, or like go out and have you know, like have a one-night stand once a month, or like that's what they like, yeah. Or you know someone might want to have. You know like three or four people that they date and they love and they you know make time for, and that sort of stuff, and it can look so different. And if both partners are dating, maybe for one partner, you know they have to break up with someone and you know they're only dating one other person and this person still has three. And you know, like some, people.
Speaker 3:I don't know, like there's always different dynamics on both sides.
Speaker 1:Yes, the thing that was just coming up for me when you were just talking about the girl with her two husbands.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think societally we would sort of view that as a society and be like oh, there's something wrong with one of those guys. Yeah, what's wrong with the husband, what's wrong with him? Oh, there's something wrong with one of those guys?
Speaker 3:Yeah. What's wrong with the husband? What's wrong with him? Yeah, why does she need another one? Why?
Speaker 1:does she need another one? What's he not giving her? Which is a really fucked up narrative. But if you flip that around, and it's the one guy with two females.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh man, that dude's a powerful dude. Yeah, it's not. You know what's wrong with the girls? It's, oh, that's a powerful dude that's got it all going on, which is a really fucked up way of viewing things, isn't?
Speaker 3:it. It is, yeah, yeah, yeah, so problematic.
Speaker 1:It is so problematic.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, it is very problematic because, like, what are we saying to? It just feeds all of those horrendous like patriarchal bullshit ideas down to young kids as well. You know, like if you have many women, you're an absolute stud. If you've got many boyfriendsfriends, then you're a slut and something's wrong with that one.
Speaker 3:Because you know what's wrong with that guy that he can't satisfy all your needs yeah, exactly and that it's such an odd thing that we still expect one person to satisfy all of our needs, and that's and for guys as well, it gets tied a lot to sexual prowess. Oh, a bit.
Speaker 1:Like. Might be one thing with the emotional thing. Guys are willing to look one way if a guy's not meeting all the emotional needs of a female, but as soon as he's not meeting the sexual needs of that female you are getting roasted by the boys.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which is really fucked up, because pretty much most men have some form of sexual problems at some point during their life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know. And women, yeah, exactly Like we all do there's an interesting thing there about poly gone wrong is when, like, if there's a heterosexual couple and the woman has, you know, like bisexual lesbian fantasies and the guy's like, okay, let's open up the relationship then and I'll go and sleep with some women and you can go and sleep with some women, but you know, no other dicks.
Speaker 1:So it's just prefacing it all on um.
Speaker 1:Yes, you can get that side of it, but you can't threaten me by bringing another guy in yeah yeah, I can imagine that would happen and that that sort of starts speaking to me of like do you know how we've got these different labels for different types of relationships, like um. That starts speaking to me of like those stag vixen type relationships or like those cuck type relationships. You know where the female can go out and play um, but it's very prescriptive, and who she can play with and all of that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she cannot be penetrated by anything else, though, like you, are the penetrator he's like. I will say what you have to say. I will say who you can go and do but I'm the only one that's penetrating you, that's fucking.
Speaker 1:I don't get that, I don't get it. I don't get that, I don't get it and I don't get it from the point that sex is emotional for most people. You know, if you're having sex with somebody, it's because you want to be intimate, yeah, and it's because, yes, you're attracted to them. But there's also something else that lights your fire in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah, like if you're worried about somebody else coming in and stealing a girl because they're putting their dick inside.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yet you're allowing them to go and have sex with another female who they're clearly attracted to and clearly have some form of intimate connection.
Speaker 3:Which brings us back to jealousy, which brings us back to an opportunity for growth. Oh my God, Someone's getting possessive.
Speaker 1:So complex.
Speaker 2:It is so complex.
Speaker 1:Now I think there's one more, or there's a lot of different stuff that I wanted to get into, but we won't have time for it into, but we won't have time for it. But here's one thing that I have always wondered about as well so those setups where there might be five or six different people within a poly relationship and where they're all crossing and having those sort of different sexual relationships with each other.
Speaker 3:Yep Like a polycule.
Speaker 1:Like a polycule yeah, is that the word for it. There would have to be some rigorous discussions around sexual health within those relationships, right? Yes, yep, because that's the myth that's going on. It's just like a cesspool of STIs just whizzing around.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, if you imagine, like, if there's more than one person in a group and they're all knowingly having sex together and they're all going to get regularly tested, because this is what smart people do, this is where the discussion comes. If you're going to add in additional people, yes.
Speaker 3:So this is why it's so important to have those discussions and be open and honest about what's going on, because a lot of the time, like, people might choose, you know like okay, everyone go and get a test, cool, we're all good, all right, now this person can come into the group, like okay everyone go and get a test.
Speaker 3:Cool, we're all good. All right, now this person can come into the group. Yes, okay, or you know. So there has to be that sort of accountability for your own sexual health, but also accountability for the group, and this is, I guess, you know, becomes problematic when people are cheating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there shouldn't be any need for it. But yeah, you know like you have to look after yourselves becomes problematic when people are cheating.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there shouldn't be any need for it. But yeah, you know like you have to look after yourselves, I suppose.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's so basically every time that somebody does get added in, you get that test start from a blank slate, everybody knows where they're at and then, if you know, everything then can happen. But yeah, it all comes down to those soft skills around communication.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and from I guess the groups that I'm aware of that you know practice in this way you know if someone has even a cold, but if someone has a cold, if someone has a herpes outbreak, if someone gets strep throat, if someone I don't know like might pick up or they like get a positive SDI test for something, then they will just let everybody know and the group will then practice the best practice around that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So you know, if someone gets a herpes outbreak, obviously no one's going to have like that physical skin-to-skin contact with them.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:I'll go and use a toy you know like go and have fun elsewhere. Yeah, so you know. You just again just sort of say okay, well, this is the reality of it. There's no shame around this. We just work around it and let's still have fun.
Speaker 1:See I this.
Speaker 3:We just work around it and let's still have fun. See, I love that shit, I know I love that shit. Imagine if we all just talked about it and we're willing to just have fun anyway.
Speaker 1:one of the biggest things I think that is missed by most people these days is mutual masturbation and just being able to sit there with your partner partners and just get yourself off. You don't need to touch each other, you can just sit there and just get off on a vibe. There's like five people there.
Speaker 3:Oh, that could be cool. You're just like oh, that's a thought.
Speaker 1:Could be cool. It could not be. Vicky, don't listen to this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like you say right, like there's so many things you can do and then you just get to experience this. If you're polyamorous, you get to experience this with a bunch of different other cool humans and just share the love and grow it. Love is not a finite resource no. You get more by giving more and having more.
Speaker 1:And I think that is a perfect place to end it, but we're going to need to circle back to this because I've still got about a hundred billion more questions.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, send them in. Send them in If you've got questions on the pod, send them in and we can always come back and address Hell. Yeah, I love questions.
Speaker 1:They're great, aren't they?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why I do this explain thing, because people send questions and I'm just like oh god yeah I don't really want to type it back on insta, so just get on the mic and do it. But yeah, send any questions, awesome thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, kate, you're welcome catch you next week okay bye bye okay, that's a wrap on our deep dive into polyamory with the wonderful Kate Campbell. Whether you're feeling inspired, curious or just mildly overwhelmed by the idea of managing more than one relationship, we get it. The key takeaway is this Love is expansive, but it's not effortless. It takes communication, consent and a whole lot of emotional agility. Polyamory isn't better or worse than monogamy. It's just different, and if it works for you, amazing. If it doesn't, also amazing. The goal here is building relationships that work, not just the ones that look good on Instagram. So if you love this episode, make sure to follow Supersex wherever you listen, share it with your friends or send it to that one person who always says I could never do poly. I'm just too jealous. You know the one. Anyways, don't forget to check out jordanwalkerrsccom or you won't learn this at schoolcom for more smart sex-positive resources. Until next time, stay curious, stay kind and stay super sexy.
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