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Super Sex
This is an 18+ podcast!
Welcome to Supersex—the podcast where you get to dive into all things sex and relationships without it ever getting boring!
Ever wondered how talking about sex could actually be fun? Well, here’s where you find out. We’ve got a queer guy and a straight dude ready to dish out the tea, share the cringey moments, and keep it as real (and hilarious) as it gets.
Every episode is packed with the good stuff—the latest research, wild stories, and a ton of laughs, so you get to learn about sex and relationships without feeling like you're in a classroom.
Curious about what’s new in sexual health? Need advice on navigating the dating jungle? Or maybe you just wanna hear about someone else’s relationship fails to feel better about your own? We got you!
From first dates to kink, we're breaking down the science and making it all relatable to you so you can implement the good stuff into your sex life and get rid of the bad.
Expect personal stories, guest experts, and, of course, a bunch of jokes. Get ready to laugh, learn, and maybe even rethink a few things about love and intimacy.
So tune in, because you deserve to have fun while figuring out this whole sex and relationship thing!
Super Sex
Episode 50: Inside Mormon Sex with Nikki Kelly
Nikki Kelly stands at a fascinating crossroads – a devout Latter-day Saint who works as a sex educator and sex toy expert. Her very existence challenges assumptions about religious people and sexuality, making for a conversation that will have you rethinking everything you thought you knew about faith, desire, and how they intersect.
Stepping into the world of Mormon sexuality reveals surprising complexities. From the ubiquitous Utah soda shops (a creative workaround for the coffee ban) to the hushed struggles of religious newlyweds attempting to navigate intimacy without education, Nikki shares insights with remarkable candour and compassion. We explore the painful reality of sexual dysfunction in religious communities, where vaginismus and other issues often stem from years of internalised shame about normal bodily functions and desires.
The journey from religious shame to sexual empowerment isn't straightforward. Nikki describes her own path – hiding her interest in sex education for years, fearing judgment from her community, and eventually finding the courage to embrace her calling. Through therapy with her mother and deep personal reflection, she discovered that spirituality and sexuality aren't opposing forces but beautifully intertwined aspects of her identity. This revelation transformed her approach to both her faith and her work.
What emerges from our conversation is a powerful message that transcends religious boundaries: true maturity isn't about rigid rule-following or finding loopholes, but developing a personal relationship with your values and creating a life that genuinely reflects your authentic self. Whether you're religious, spiritual, or neither, Nikki's perspective offers a refreshing alternative to shame-based approaches to sexuality, showing how education, communication, and self-acceptance create the foundation for healthy relationships with both our bodies and our beliefs.
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All right, folks, buckle up. Today we're diving headfirst into the holy water and then maybe dipping a toe into something a little steamier. On this episode of Supersex, we're joined by the brilliant Nikki Kelly, sex educator, sex toy expert and proud Latter-day Saint yeah, you heard that right. We're going deep on what it means to grow up Mormon, live your faith and explore your sexuality. Nikki brings the kind of honesty, humour and heart that makes you lean in and rethink everything you thought you knew about religion and desire. We talk shame, silence and sacred bodies, from purity pledges and coffee abstinence to why phrases like modest is hottest hit way harder than they should. We get real about the myths, misunderstandings and the wild ways that young people in ultra religious spaces sometimes find to sidestep the rules. And yet we even get into where the Mormons are kinkier. Spoiler alert it's more fascinating than you think this one is for anyone who grew up religious, is questioning the script they were handed or is trying to find a version of sexuality that actually fits with their values. Let's get into it.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Super Sex, the podcast that dives into sex, relationships and absolutely everything in between. We're stripping away shame, turning up the truth and keeping it smart, playful and unapologetically real. So buckle up, because the combos are deep, the topics are juicy and the safe word is always more, let's get into it, more, let's get into it. Alright, guys, today we have Nikki Kelly back in the studio, because we love talking to her so much. We've also got our favourite pagan in the house Tash.
Speaker 3:Wilson, I love that.
Speaker 1:That's going to be my new intro now the pagan, the pagan, and you can say the pagan because you're German as well.
Speaker 3:No, it's like 5%, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:You're all out German now. That's enough of the accent. Today we just had this brilliant idea. In fact, no, we didn't have it, nikki had it. We're calling this episode Two Pagans and a Mormon. I think that's fairly self-explanatory about what the fuck we're talking about. We are talking about the intersection of sex, love, relationships and religion yes let's dive into this, because mormon's not the right term, is it?
Speaker 2:that is, it is not the right term.
Speaker 1:For idiots like me, please clarify.
Speaker 2:No, it's definitely the term we've been known by for a very long time, but it is, and has always been, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So the term Mormon was actually a term originally to make fun of us, because we believe in the Book of Mormon. But when people ask me, like are you Mormon? Usually I know what they mean and I'm not easily offended. So I'll say like well, I mean Mormon died a long time ago. But like we are Christian, like that's just we're Christian. But Latter-day Saint is typically a little bit more accurate than Mormon, because there are three different denominations of mormon. You have rlds, flds and then lds. Yeah, so, but you know that gets confusing. You don't want to explain it. So the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints is the official name and that is the religious denomination I am a part of okay I love this yeah it.
Speaker 1:This is going to be fascinating because I think when we talk religion, I think that is almost the umbrella that is shielding us or protecting us from the terms like shame and stigma and purity and all these other things that come into it, because I grew up in the north of England, raised not necessarily religiously, but under the banner of Church of England. Now the Church of England is far more liberal than Catholics. I dated a South American Catholic girl and, holy fuck, the intersection of us coming together with the way that it was dramatic.
Speaker 3:So my mum's Church of England and my dad's Catholic Wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and.
Speaker 3:I'm a pagan. I just was like bye guys.
Speaker 2:Church of England and Catholic birthed the pagan.
Speaker 3:I was just like atheist for a while. I'm like no, stop everything, I'm pagan and read up on it and I really enjoy it now.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I know where you're coming from with the whole Church of England and Catholics.
Speaker 3:So I was raised as a Catholic but my mum and dad got married in a Church of England church.
Speaker 1:Somebody was burning, it's probably me inside my mum's tummy.
Speaker 2:That's an L? Evil baby Evil egg.
Speaker 3:No, you had an egg that's an evil baby, evil egg.
Speaker 1:No, you had an egg and that was evil from the start. Where's my stone circle, fuckers?
Speaker 3:Bring me drink and sex. All I was was a little egg. Give me the vodka, up the, up the, and then let's go.
Speaker 1:We need to make like a cartoon documentary of your life. I think that would just be, brilliant.
Speaker 3:That's the beginning. That's the egg of evil. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But when these things do intersect, that's where I think challenges come up, because we all get raised in our own little pockets, right, like? Church of England is far more liberal than Catholic. And then there are certain sects within Christianity that are far more conservative than others. I went to the one that was like so liberal, you might as well not even have a religion, you know, but it's when they come together that you see those differences in opinions and whatnot.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I think now this really big thing is coming out because the Pornhub stats for 2024, one of the biggest rises was Mormonormon wives and mormon porn. What the fuck like, do mormon people actually have sex different? Like where does that go and how? How is this even a thing?
Speaker 2:to be honest, I don't know if I can like fully speak to that because I don't know, but I do know in general, the moment you put the label mormon on something, you're getting clicks. You're getting like we are. I don't know what it quite is, I'm, I mean, I do in some aspects, but there is so much about, uh, latter-day saint religion that is interesting to a lot of people because of what they think they know, because of what, yeah, like it's like, listen what you think you know, probably 10% accurate, but it gets so much media attention. Um, and I don't, we're just a peculiar. I think people want to figure us out and they want to put us in a box, right, and they have for so long, um, that, yeah, you put mormon on something and then all of a sudden, people are interested.
Speaker 2:They're like, oh, I watched, you know, see your lives of mormon wives which, like that is literally where I was like born and raised, like where that show is filmed, like that is literally my neighborhood.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and like those women, like.
Speaker 2:I know in Utah you're always one step away from like someone famous because there's so many influencers in Utah. There's also, I think, there's a lot of very beautiful people in Utah, very talented as well.
Speaker 3:This is what our discussion was at lunchtime. I want to go to Utah to find my wallpapers.
Speaker 2:There are some very, very pretty people in Utah Like it's crazy. If you Google like Utah, you say yeah, like if you Google like Mormons, like why are Mormons like one of the top searches are going to be? Why are they so hot? Like and this is not listen, I'm not in that category. I love how I look, Don't get me wrong, but it was rough growing up. When people around you are just beautiful.
Speaker 3:They are so pretty, so I'm changing religion and going to Utah into Utah.
Speaker 2:We're very unique from the rest of the US as well as far as our habits go and the way that we live our lives. The theology is, I think, very fascinating to people. It's like you've never had coffee, you've never had a drink of alcohol in your whole life. That is, to people, insane. That's insane for them. They can't even fathom. How have you ever had a good time? But I have a completely different definition of what a good time looks like.
Speaker 3:Hang on stop, they don't have coffee. I figured that out today too. Oh, you didn't know that Coffee, I didn't know that. Did you not know that?
Speaker 1:No, I did Explain this.
Speaker 3:Did you explain? This is why I'm having a headache. I am now seven days. No coffee from six coffees a day.
Speaker 1:Do you really need to go there just to get a dick.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:Just go to Utah and find him.
Speaker 3:Just go to Utah and find him and say I'm not having coffee anymore.
Speaker 2:No, so it comes from it's just a health code that we have. You know, like Muslims have their health code Jewish, it's very similar as far as, like, we just a health code that we have much. You know, like, muslims have their health code jewish, that it's very similar. Yeah, um, as far as, like, we have a health code. Um, the basis of it is anything that could be addictive we try and stay away from, because one of our biggest values is the ability to choose, um, the ability to make choices, and so when you are inhibited by something that you are addicted to, it's kind of choosing for you. You don't have a choice in it. So, alcohol, drugs, um, coffee is quite addictive, but that's where it gets a little nuanced and tricky.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say you just told me at lunch time so we've just had some lunch together, nikki and I on our way here to the podcast and you said that Utah has the best soda sodas mixtures ever. Isn't soda an addiction, nikki? Absolutely it is.
Speaker 2:One hundred percent. So this is where, this is where culture and religion meet. Okay.
Speaker 1:The intersections are real.
Speaker 2:Because I'm sure you would find this in any religion but ours. The big, just blaring loophole I like to say that people have found is if they're doing very letter of the law, right, like well, it says no coffee, but it never said anything about soda. So Utah actually has a soda shop on like every freaking corner, like as many church steeples as there are. There's a soda shop and we do soda where we add creamer to it. You guys don't have that here. No, it's coffee creamer. It's delicious and you add fruit purees and so syrups and their combination, so it's kind of like coffee and that you have your base.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know your dr pepper coke or pepsi or something and then you add things to it like lime, coconut creamer, uh, different syrups and lord, and this is my whole lunch time was like I want to go have one of these sodas.
Speaker 2:But then here's my problem as someone I don't drink a ton of soda. Like, if I'm gonna have soda, I going to have it the Utah way, do not get me wrong. Like, I'm going to have my root beer with vanilla, coconut creamer and half and half. But I think where people get really twisted in their beliefs and this is why it's so salacious, this is why social media is like this makes no sense. Because it doesn't make any sense, because, really, if you're actually following the principle behind it, you're not going to have a 44 ounce soda every day. Like, if you're really trying to stay away from addictive substances, you're not going to do that.
Speaker 2:But a lot of people, you know they just they don't fully allow their religion to be something that they create. You know what I mean. Like these are principles, these are values, these are things that you're taught, and I really believe that you should be looking internally and saying what do I want my life to look like? What do I believe that's here that's good, and how do I want to create a life based on these and something that's healthy, right? Or am I only going to say, well, these is, this is my list of dues, this is my list of don'ts and as long as I follow these then I'm good. Like that's not, I don't think truly getting into like a mature relationship with like religion.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that's where a lot of people are very stuck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think a lot of people do pick and choose between it and they yeah, they can interpret it one way and interpret it the other way, and sometimes that's a really great positive way.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it's negative but, that can impact a whole heap of things, but certainly raising kids. I want to know what was it like growing up within that religion, that culture and understanding or maybe even not understanding anything about sexuality. Talk to me about that because, like I'm sitting there thinking from my perspective, you know, like my dad just did not give a shit about anything to do with religion, and sex was just one of those free and open things that we could talk about. And I wonder, how was that experience different from yours?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I would say very different. No, I will give my parents so much credit because my parents were far more open than the vast majority of, I would say, latter-day Saints in my dad. He gave me the talk. He was raised by his mom as a nurse and my dad's very analytical thinking. You can come to him with any question and he will give it to you directly. You know it's not going to be, you're not going to feel guilty. He's not going to make you feel guilty for asking a question, which I really appreciate and that allowed me to have a little bit more open conversation. But by no means does that mean that it was just this open topic discussed all the time that it was like you can ask anything like and you can believe anything like. No, that wasn't quite right, but I at least had some sex education, like my parents taught me that. You know, this is how this works from a biological perspective as well as um.
Speaker 2:It was not just focused on procreation. That's not something that my particular religion focuses on is it's. We believe that sex is not just procreative, but it is supposed to be enjoyed. It's supposed to be this pleasurable experience for both people and it doesn't just have to be for children. I also was raised where birth control and things was absolutely a personal choice and not looked down upon at all. I know that it depends because there's so much variation, right and like, how Orthodox people are, and I grew up in a very, very active family and I still am extremely active. I went to church today, but something that was ingrained in me and what I think built the foundation for me to be confident of speaking about sexuality, is that it wasn't shamed. My own sexuality wasn't shamed. There was a larger narrative of shaming within the church, a lot of adults being very uncomfortable with their own sexuality, and I could feel that you cause you, can you?
Speaker 2:know when you're a youth you can feel that, like mom or dad or this adult can't handle my question because they have their own anxieties about it. Right, and I am not. As a teenager, I don't have the capacity to handle mom or dad's anxiety and my own, like I'm just not going to ask them. Right, so kids can map that and I could tell that it wasn't completely comfortable for both of my parents to talk about fully. But if I did have like a question I knew I could go to them. And just one extra thing I'll add something that I think really influenced me was when I first got my period. It was on vacation. I'll never forget.
Speaker 3:I was on vacation.
Speaker 2:What a time for it to come, they always come at the inappropriate time it was in a gas station and I was. I went into the bathroom at this gas station.
Speaker 2:I realized oh my goodness, my period. And I come out whisper in my mom's ear mom, I just got my period. I'm so nervous. My mom was so great and she was like, oh, let me get you stuff. She gets me all the supplies and things. And that night my dad actually came in. I was sharing a hotel room with my brothers and he was like hey guys, like can you leave?
Speaker 2:I want to talk to you know, your sister and my dad came in and he told me like how happy he was for me and how proud he was just to like have me as his daughter and that, like this is a really great thing, that, like me, turning into a woman is nothing I should be ashamed of. And he also talked about like I should always expect respect from men, especially that I don't have to give them anything, that they should just respect me regardless, and that me being a woman, and I have value and I am special. And I think that was really influential for me and I do believe that my religious background and like the way that we view our bodies and women and men, I think that's what created that moment that was so impactful for me.
Speaker 2:All you know, even now, yeah that he, it was my dad, not even my mom, but he was my dad, this man. I have three brothers, I'm the only girl in my family, but to have this male figure in my life, um, come and tell me that this is nothing I should be ashamed of, that was really powerful for me.
Speaker 1:That is absolutely huge and props to your dad.
Speaker 2:Like Tasha and.
Speaker 1:I did an episode the other week on raising daughters.
Speaker 2:I heard it, it was fantastic.
Speaker 1:And that is like one of the things that we hope, that guys would be doing with their daughters.
Speaker 3:You know, just coming in, giving them information and doing what your dad did.
Speaker 2:Just making it comfortable and making making it known that somebody's there yeah, and that it's not this thing I have to hide that it's only something women deal with like that he recognized. You know that this isn't just something I have to face alone, that you know, and my mom, of course, was so great and so sweet, but it was really, I feel like, to me, more impactful that it was my dad. Yeah, that said something about it and made it a moment.
Speaker 1:I wonder if that's because, like, there's a big leap for a guy to talk about that sort of stuff as well, like you know, how difficult it is for a lot of guys to have that conversation with their daughter absolutely, yeah, yeah it's well, but that, like as you were talking about that, I was just thinking how much that contrasts with what a lot of people would think that people within those more conservative sort of religions go through.
Speaker 1:Right, you know and most people would think that I don't know. Have you seen that US version of ghosts with the Puritan ghost? And she's just like oh, you will pay for your sins and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:No, I will say that is probably. My experience is quite unique. I would say if I was just any other run of the mill, any one of my friends, like anyone else on this couch, they would say I received zero sex education at all and Utah is abstinence only. And even then you have to have a permission slip that's signed by your parents for the two-day unit.
Speaker 1:Um, like there is that's it there?
Speaker 2:is nothing. They do not show you how to use a condom. They do not show. They show nothing, absolutely nothing. I remember like you label the parts of a penis. You know, this is the shaft and this is the glands and this is.
Speaker 2:You know, um, and then you do ovaries we don't label the clitoris at all um, but a lot of the class actually got excused, like their parents were not okay with them being in even on this abstinence only curriculum, where you learn nothing. Their parents still were not comfortable about it and so, but they're not learning it at home, right? Because that's the idea is like, okay, if you don't want public school to teach your kids, then you need to be doing it. But they're not. So where I started seeing this real need and I was like, oh wow, people were raised different than me was when I turned like 18, 19 years old and I started going to college and I had so many friends that had never put in a tampon before and they they had never like they were terrified. They knew nothing about sex, absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2:And I was sitting there going, how is this possible? Like what do you mean? But I do understand, I think in better capacity than someone who was not raised religious. Like how is that possible? Because I think there's this automatic assumption that like, well, you would have picked it up somewhere. I'm telling you, as someone who was raised in a very religious household, it's very easy to not have exposure to that, very easy. I did not have internet on my phone until I was 18 years old, like I didn't have Safari on my phone.
Speaker 2:My parents were very protective, like it's easy to not actually be exposed to those things because I suppose when you live in that fishbowl nothing comes in, nothing really goes out right yeah, yeah, wow, especially in utah, because you know, like 62 is the same religion there's. There's so much around you that is very cultural as far as the church goes, it is such a dominating part of Utah culture, which is what makes it so distinct and different from the rest of the U? S. So you know it's. It is easier than people think when you live in a community of people that think similarly, that live values similarly.
Speaker 1:Um, I think it is easy to just have things fly under the radar, and sexuality and sex is going to be absolutely one, that is, it's very taboo, I would say, across the board talk to me on that, though, because you're a sex educator, you work with couples, you work in sex shops and you you help couples to be able to find the best of their sexuality together, right? How did you first decide to get into that? But, more importantly, was it like a really massive cultural thing when you came out for one of the better work, and how was that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that would have been very like.
Speaker 1:I'm just imagining. It's fucking terrifying.
Speaker 2:It was. It really really was. Yeah, for my undergrad I've just known for so long. Even when I was a teenager, I was like maybe I'll teach high school health. It was just always something that fascinated me. It was always something I wanted to ask questions on, and I tried. But then again these anxieties of these adults around me, they didn't make any sense to me, where I was like, why is this such an uncomfortable topic for you, like you have 10 kids? No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1:You should be able to talk about this shit easy.
Speaker 2:But it just never made any sense, and especially with the theology of you know, you're telling me that the mysteries of God will be unfolded, like that I can talk to God and I can get answers to my questions, but like, oh listen, I can't get answers to this. That doesn't make any sense. You're directly contradicting yourself. So when I started college, I was like you know what I can't? I can't pursue sex education, because what will other people think of me? I was very concerned about that. Yeah, um, and especially being a virgin, that is like how could you know anything?
Speaker 2:right, like yeah but my response to that is always male gynecologists exist, so so can I, like there's so many things like I teach about. Like products for penises. And I don't have a penis, regardless of my own sexual status, like I still don't have one. But I still can know so much, like there is an extent, like I can know as much as a male gynecologist can know. I cannot speak. I never go past the line where I can't speak to you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:But there's so much education there, like prior, so I was worried about that. I was like, well, all credentials would go out the window because or I was also afraid of what people would assume about me, um, and within my community, that really mattered a lot to me. So I was like, if I say that I'm in sex education, then all these people that I have a lot of respect for and that have a lot of respect for me, I feel like that's going to go away, because it is so taboo that they're going to think that I am a certain type of way and I've been raised my whole life to. You know that that's not the way that we should be. And there was, there was a lot that I battled with that for like five years. I didn't tell anyone that what I was really doing at school.
Speaker 2:I went with what my minor was. My minor was autism studies, behavioral analytics, and so I would say, yeah, I'm going into that anytime anybody asked. And I just felt more and more and more like I can help in this space. I can be a voice to the voiceless, I can speak to my own people, yeah, and they need someone who can speak out on this, because I'm helping everybody in the background.
Speaker 2:I'm doing sex ed nights at my apartment complex and they're growing in number, like because just girls all around, like from church and from all over, is like, oh well, Nikki, like we'll talk about it. So like let's go over. She seems to know all this stuff. Meanwhile I'm in my room like studying the crap out of everything. I was like, oh, I got to know something, like I got to know all this stuff, cause people are asking I'm now this resource, right, so that's all happening in the background. And right, so that's all happening in the background. And I was like I think I'm really good at this like and I'm I feel comfortable talking about it and not everyone does in my community and I just I felt really called to it, which was difficult for me for years, feeling to me like God was calling me to this yet culturally.
Speaker 2:how could I tell someone within my community that I felt like God told me to do this thing? That is directly against what they think God would tell me to do. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the day I met you was like our first ever day at uni. First ever session. We were the only two sexologists in our class and when I got to get to know you a bit more I was like I absolutely love this chick. And when I found out your story of, like you know, being the virgin educator, I was like this is freaking amazing.
Speaker 1:Like this is amazing and you know what you said. Then it's like you're calling yeah. I don't know how many of us have sat there like, especially when we do the SAR and we sit there and we look around the room and we go. These are our people.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:This is where I've always meant to be and, like you can see, the people that are a little bit outside of that and they actively sort of start placing themselves on the fringes of the room towards the end of the week. But the people who feel it, they're like right there in the thick of it, right yeah.
Speaker 2:They're raising their hand, we're participating, we're debating in classes.
Speaker 1:Bit right, like yeah they're raising their hand, we're participating, we're debating in classes because, you're in my sar class and you could tell like there's groups of us that were just sort of starting to mingle a lot more, and then there's people on their periphery and yeah, I get that calling. But what was it like when you finally decided have you decided?
Speaker 3:You're on social media right she's out.
Speaker 1:I'm very out now Sorry this podcast has brought you out now Because. I'm just sitting there thinking it's such a cultural thing, oh yeah, and there's all that fear and stigma and shame around, like, oh, what are my family going to think? That fear and stigma and shame around, like, oh, what are my family gonna think? And like, my family are gonna carry this weight of what I'm doing within my community? Yes, yes, how did that go?
Speaker 2:so it was a long process, truly like it took me, in total, probably six years to go from like I, this is what I need to do, this is what I, I think I'm born to do. To hey everybody, hi, I'm a sex educator, um, and I first started with me. I was like you know what? I'm going to? Take the classes, I'm going to see if I'm really interested in this, and then, you know, talking to friends about it and studying on my own time and seeing like their response, and then that helped me build my confidence. And then I started going to therapy. That was really helpful too, to just because I was just so concerned about what everyone else thought about me and I think that's a very natural thing, especially, you know, before your frontal lobe closes, like every, what your community and what your people think about you matters so much to you. And so I think, as I was maturing as an adult, that played a big part into it.
Speaker 2:But, um, eventually I hit this, uh, this moment where I was like why do I do the things that I do? Like what, what kind of life do I want to live? And I was like I really love my religion, like I love the values it teaches. I love the person it makes me I. This isn't something that I am ashamed of, but yet I feel almost like I have to be ashamed of it when I'm in the sexuality space.
Speaker 2:And then I feel like I need to be ashamed of my sexuality when I'm in this space and I was like you know what, let me try and figure out a way to blend these, because I don't think that everything lives in a vacuum. You know, like we're we're complex people and, uh, I think starting to realize that my sexuality and my spirituality were not at odds. They were not these two separate things that are contrary to each other. In fact, they're beautifully intertwined and they are both part of me and they both are what make me powerful. That was kind of the beginning, and so I was like what do I want out of life? What if I always wanted to do, but I've been too afraid to do it because of what other people thought.
Speaker 3:So I started small with coming out and saying like I'm a want to be a sex educator. That was way too big, right. So I did it in a small way first and I started pole dancing.
Speaker 2:I'll start the small steps. I was like you know, so I did pole dancing that's the smallest step you could find.
Speaker 1:I just love it. I walked out there with my six inch stilettos on, wrapped myself around that pole and that was my coming out.
Speaker 2:No, I wish I was there in short sleeves and shorts. I was so like, but no, I realized I was like, okay, I think the first thing I need to do is I need to rewrite my sexual script and I have a lot of um, purity, culture, modesty culture, ideas that I don't agree with anymore. But again, sticking with my values, I was like, okay, what are the values? And then how can I shift my mind into thinking in a much more healthy way? So I was like, well, I need to feel comfortable looking at myself with less clothing on, because I've never done that and I wear religious clothing underneath my clothing. I've never done that and I wear religious clothing underneath my clothing. So that also limits me in like how much exposed skin that I have on just like a day-to-day basis. So I was like, okay, I'm going to start with this sport. This is something that my body can do. It's, I mean, it sounds fun.
Speaker 3:It sounds and I love. I love a shock value.
Speaker 2:I always have so, and I wanted something, ultimately, that would make me feel different. It wasn't about aesthetics, it was I want to feel strong, I want to feel beautiful and I want my sexuality to not be dictated by outside sources. I want to feel sexy and like, own that and not be ashamed of that, so that I can have better control over what I want to do with that. So I started with pole dancing and it took me like I think it was six months before I told my parents and I was at the whole like I need to sit down and tell you something.
Speaker 3:Like like they, I wanted to tell them so badly.
Speaker 2:But I was so afraid of just judgment, of just. You know these cultural things I was.
Speaker 2:My parents are great, but they're a product of who raised them and like they've got their scripts going on as well right, exactly, the script has been written absolutely it's so hard to step away from it yes, so I wanted to tell them because I had learned how to climb a pole for the first time and I was so proud of myself because you know how difficult it is to climb a 14 foot pole like I felt so strong, I felt so powerful, and so I had said that and the reaction was very like what? Like it was not really talked about. But then, of course, you know, I knew it was going to be talked about. Once I left I was like, oh gosh, I never should have told them, like um, so that's kind of where it started. And then I started making little changes and doing different things because I was like I need to work on me first. I need to get to a place where I feel okay with me so that when other people disagree with me and when other people question me and other people judge me in what I feel like is incorrect and incorrect way, when they see me the way that they're going to see me and I have no control over that I need to be okay with myself in those moments and I need to feel confident in my choices because they're mine and I'm making them with me and God, like they're not from other people. So that's where I began.
Speaker 2:And then I think a real big pivot point for me was I asked my mom to go to therapy with me. My mom and I did a year of therapy together. That was so helpful, like it was very, very difficult, but I, you know, I my the opinions of my parents matter so much to me and I love my parents and they're such good people. But there are, you know, these cultural things that I knew. I could tell that they judged me and I could tell that, like certain things that my mom thought about me and it hurt me, it hurt me so deeply to be like can't you see that Like I'm still the daughter that you raised, like I'm still, I still have these values that you taught me and like I love them.
Speaker 2:But it doesn't have to look. My life does not have to look the way that yours does or did or the one that you imagined for me, like this is. I think it was very difficult for my parents to see my life in the way that I was creating it and it was so different than the like playbook they gave me. So I think that was really most helpful was I went to therapy, my mom was incredible and so willing and I'm very blessed to have that, because not everyone gets that. Not everyone has a parent that's willing to handle their own stuff and to like develop a relationship with you and do that work Like I'm really grateful.
Speaker 1:Do you know how few people are actually willing to do the work?
Speaker 2:at all. Yeah, and that's why they stay stuck.
Speaker 1:They do, they do and it's I what you were talking about there. I was just falling in love with all of it, right? Because there is this thing that I'm I'm starting to see more and more and it's it's not like that it's happening more and more. It's just that I'm starting to see more and more and it's not like that it's happening more and more. It's just that I'm seeing it more and more and I think what it is? It's like this feminine empowerment through an understanding and embracing of sexuality, absolutely Taking ownership of that sexuality and taking ownership of that. I think for the longest time, women have been told that sex happens to you yeah, not with you, or not because of you. And when a woman does take that on and they embrace it and they, and they say exactly what you said, like this is me, you can come at me, but I'm good with me.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Whatever you say cool, won't affect me.
Speaker 1:It's not really going to affect me but whatever, because I know me and you can tell the people that have done that work because they fucking glow, like they absolutely glow, and you can see them walking down the street, you can see it in conversation, you can see it in a nightclub when you go out for dancing. You know, you can see those people. I'm not saying like they look like slutty or lascivious or anything like that. I'm'm just saying that there's an energy and a confidence of the person that glows with that and it's like you can throw your shit and it's not going to stick Right. And I think more people, not just women, more people need to go on that fucking journey and mainly men.
Speaker 1:I'm throwing it out at guys Fucking guys need to do that.
Speaker 2:It would be so helpful to our society.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh my God, yeah, Now I can only imagine that, growing up obviously with no education around this, and you got pretty decent education.
Speaker 2:But still very little in comparison. Still limited, but better. Yeah, it's still very little in comparison.
Speaker 1:But better. Yeah, but for the majority of LDS people, they're growing up with nothing, so you can imagine that prior to having a relationship or a marriage or something like that, there's a lot of issues, right. There's a lot of shame issues and all that sort of stuff. There's a lot of trying to figure out what happens, why my body does this, how my body does that, why I think this, why I think that I'm really interested yeah, what the fuck happens after people get married. Isn't this going to be your like? Did I just get it?
Speaker 3:No, this is her wanting to do thin, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:This is literally why I have a job? Because they don't. They don't get it, and I think that that's what's sad is. There is again these assumptions, these assumptions that you'd learn it along the way Okay, then you don't. Okay, but at least you get married, and then you're going to figure it out.
Speaker 2:How difficult can it really be? Right, well, turns out really, really hard, because so many of the couples that I work with have such traumatic honeymoon experiences that I work with have such traumatic honeymoon experiences like so awful, yes, and that really sets them up literally from the beginning for just such a rough, rough sex life, rough relationship in general, like and to me it's so heartbreaking because marriage is valued so highly in my religion and to have it be this like well, you can't do anything, you know, like marriage is all of this is the culminating. What we're striving for is marriage. We don't talk anything about sex prior, like what happens, you know, and then, all of a sudden, it's not what you think, like, these people get into marriage and they're like let's go, but there's a lot of anxiety because what happens is, if you don't learn about these things, it literally isn't a switch that you can flip.
Speaker 3:They wouldn't know if they need lube. What's that? They wouldn't even know if they need lube or anything like that.
Speaker 2:Right, well, the only advice that they're getting is from their like girlfriend, right like the, from the girls in their group, and they all have the same advice because they all just got the same advice from the same people and it's not, it's not very inclusive, yeah, and it's like well, they also have a terrible sex life, so I don't know if I'm talking to them.
Speaker 1:you don't know that but they do have a sex life, so so listen to them, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:They all use the same lube. They all use the same thing. It's all Utah companies Like the problem that it causes. It causes so much sexual dysfunction and that's what I work with couples. That's, you know, one of the things that I specialize in is sexual dysfunction and it's really so sad to me. A lot of women experience pain during sex. Um they have vaginismus, undiagnosed vaginismus um that's what I did my undergrad thesis on.
Speaker 2:Was, uh, the prevalence of vaginismus in high demand religions um so that's oh, it was very interesting Talk, yeah, what a lot of women don't realize is when you grow up in this culture and we have a very big like modesty, purity culture, which I do believe is changing and I'm so grateful for that but the way that it's been taught for so long is very problematic and it brings a lot of the shame that you just said, so much shame so you learn to suppress any sort of sexual feeling from the very beginning of getting it right that you get this narrative that this is bad, this is wrong, this is something that you should be shameful about, right and that causes a true biological effect with the tightening of your lower pelvic floor muscles. Right, like this is a real thing that's happening in your body, where your body, as a defense against this bad, wrong thing, is clenching, but you don't realize it's so unconscious. That's what vaginismus is the unconscious and like it's an uncontrollable tightening of the lower pelvic floor muscles.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's what opens and closes your vaginal canal. So you have this tightening that occurs all throughout you know your adolescence and into your early adulthood that you don't realize is going on and you have a lot of shame and a lot of fear of shame and a lot of fear, and most couples, like the stats I wish I could remember I think it was like less, uh, less than 50 percent have conversations about sex prior to marriage, which is again like what?
Speaker 2:what that's bad um, yeah, so they're not talking about it, they're not. They're just like oh, we're gonna get married and we're gonna figure it out, right, but then.
Speaker 3:So now, yeah, so now going to the urethra. That would be bizarre, but that's the truth.
Speaker 2:That's the truth, though, like they don't know, yeah, like they really don't. And, depending on how you were raised, like your lack of knowledge could be quite severe. And so now you're having penetration for the very first time, right, and you've been told, well, it's gonna hurt, because that's the only advice that you know most people well, it's natural for it to hurt. And all this stuff, right, which, again, is like this, this false, this false thing that you're hearing, right, because it hurt your mom. She doesn't have a good you know, she never had a good sex life, and your friend doesn't have a good one, and everyone it just, it just perpetuates the cycle, right Of like, well, this is what you should expect, and it's not true.
Speaker 2:And so, when it hurts really, really, really badly, then they go oh well, that's just what this is like, that's just how it is, but over time, that's that's going to be really problematic. And then it creates so many emotional problems for both people. It's heartbreaking. And then you know, I've met couples, genuinely. I have met couples who are two years into marriage and never had penetrative sex.
Speaker 1:What the fuck? What? Simply because of vaginismus, because of pain, yeah, because of pain, oh my God.
Speaker 2:And it is to see these couples like just sobbing and feeling like they're both broken, and then you know, then they get to the blame game of whose fault it is and blah, blah, blah and like all you want is sex and she doesn't want sex. It's like it's just, it's a nightmare why doesn't? She want it because it fucking hurts, right. And then it's like, oh well then then it makes him feel bad.
Speaker 2:I'm like if we had a healthier way. That still aligns listen, that's a thing, newsflash. Sex education does align with a lot of religious values and, specifically speaking about my denomination, healthy sexuality is not a topic that you cannot speak on. In fact, there is nothing there that perpetuates, like the culture. The culture is what's dominating these narratives. It is not actually the doctrine in any capacity, and I think if there was just more, if there was more talking about it, more educating, especially for singles, because if you're taking a community full of celibate people and that's what you're encouraging you still need to teach them sex education. You need to set them up for success, not failure.
Speaker 1:Spot on.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's just spot on yeah.
Speaker 1:See my thing that I'm hearing there and wondering is there's that saying if you don't use it, you lose it, right? And that works just as much with guys as it does with females. Like, basically, if guys aren't getting erections, their penis is starting to shrink and retract and there's all sorts of blood flow issues potential necrosis.
Speaker 2:Peyronie's disease and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:That needs like a little bit more, but like there's so many fucking things that happens just to guys if they're not getting regular erections. But I'm just thinking like the vagina and the vulva are so much more sensitive and if they're not getting regular, let's call it workouts. You're getting tight pelvic floor, you're getting vaginismus, you're getting that thinning of the vaginal cavity, you're getting that dropping down of, like different parts which not meant to happen. And just a simple conversation, even just base it in pure health. Use a dilator every week, I don't know. Just fucking. Use something, Something. Don't use a whole fat sitting on the table.
Speaker 3:Well, it's been eight months. I haven't used anything. So holy shit, here you go, mate.
Speaker 2:So that's such an interesting point that you bring up, and I think a lot of times this is where it makes religious people very nervous, right? Is it's like, well, I can't, I can't, right, and so I like to reframe it in a way that can be helpful where these muscles that you're exercising, there are so many of them there right, we're talking physical muscles, but then also like mental and emotional.
Speaker 1:Because there's that link to it as well. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Like if, every single time that you have a sexual thought, you shame yourself for that. You make you, you feel bad, that is causing problems. You're you're working the wrong muscle, other than holding that and being like you know what. This is amazing that I can feel this way. And if you're religious, like the way that I take, it is like wow, like God created my body to do incredible things.
Speaker 1:Yes, Like that's amazing Wow.
Speaker 2:Like how cool am I? You know and I don't shame myself for any sort of feeling that I have and it's much like if you go to a museum and you look at a piece of art, right, and you're looking at something and you may have a reaction to that, it may it may evoke some sort of feeling within you. You may feel uncomfortable, or you may feel like really happy at whatever you're looking at, or maybe you feel turned on or whatever. It may be Right, but then you know you move on. You're not sitting there going like questioning, like well, why do I feel this way? And like I shouldn't feel this way, and all this You're just looking at like art, Right, and I think that we can do that with our feelings as well. It's like, yeah, you have a sexual feeling and just you can just sit with it for a minute and then. But you can decide then what you're going to do with that, and I think there's three uh uh ways that you can go.
Speaker 2:You can suppress it, which that's going to cause major problems, okay you're going to end up in my office don't do that, um, you can act on it, you know, and you could masturbate 12 times a day, I mean like, or you could just, there's so many different things that you could do to like, act on it, right. But if that feels without, not within your value system, if you're like, oh well, I don't want to masturbate, okay, well, then you can channel it then into something else. There's so many sports teams where they're not allowed to have sex before a game because that makes them so they can channel that energy, like into the game, right, and I think artistic expression in any form is a great way to channel. If you're wanting to do it within a value system that's teaching complete celibacy instead of suppressing it or acting on it.
Speaker 2:If those are not options for you, then using that gift of creativeness of this, you know, if that's really what this is, this energy to create. You can create friendships, create beauty, create art. I mean, think of like breakup songs, right? Is this energy to create? Um, you can create friendships, create beauty, create art. Yeah, I mean, think of like breakup songs, right, like when people, they have this love, this desire that they can no longer, like, give to somebody and that hurts and they want to express it, and then they write this incredible thing that can be shared with others.
Speaker 3:Tangible right like those are the best songs or a love song.
Speaker 2:you know like we can do the same even if you're not like having sex. There's healthy ways to handle your sexuality but also embrace it, to find ways to feel confident about it yourself. I think is such a big part of it is you need to be able to hold those things and be okay with that and see it as a gift and a blessing If that's your religious you know, like theology, um, rather than, this is somehow a detriment to your spirituality. Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:it's incredible, you, you've actually like hit exactly what I say to a lot of people in those more conservative religions because, like if you believe that God is all-powerful and the creator of all things and you need to respect your God and you know and give back to your God.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:If your God created you with a clitoris with 10,000 nerve endings? Isn't it disrespecting God by not using it.
Speaker 3:Exactly Like.
Speaker 2:I mean, come on, there is one other thing, a lot of when it comes to the conversation of desire, especially like sexual desire, right, like these things.
Speaker 2:I think it's a great skill and a muscle to exercise. If you're someone that's practicing celibacy, to learn then what things you do like and that doesn't necessarily mean sexually, like I'm meaning like just in life, like go after things that you desire, because if you're not practicing any sort of skill, you know that if you don't use it, you lose it. If you have never practiced, like speaking up for yourself and saying when you like something, saying when you don't, whether that's at a restaurant and someone asks you what your order is, and you're like afraid to like really voice what you want, I'll just go with what they want, or something like. I know that's such a stupid example, but you need to be practicing these skills that can then be transferable into different settings. Yes, you know, like that's. I think where the mark is being missed within religious communities is they're afraid of well, if you're practicing something, then you're immediately practicing it sexually, and that's a no-no, and so then you therefore do nothing, and I think that that's where we're getting so many problems.
Speaker 2:It's like there's so many different ways that you can be healthy about this, still within your value system. Practicing these skills that will set you up for success.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I was like wow, I literally can't add anything more to that, I'm just like uh-huh, uh-huh yeah. But talking about the abstinence as well it's not just cultural areas either.
Speaker 1:Most schools teach abstinence, yeah yeah, which is yeah Because you can teach abstinence and you can teach biology without taking the wrath of parents basically. Because you literally just sit there and go. It's an anatomical lesson and I'm teaching your kids not to do it.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:That's it. I'm teaching them how to keep themselves safe. So schools do take on that, even here, right, and we've arguably got one of the best well, better, it's not the best but we've got one of the better sex ed programs in the world. But yeah, we still largely revert back to that abstinence model, which is really fucked up and that sort of embeds itself within culture, embeds itself within different thought processes, you know, and it all centers that primacy of penis and vagina sex Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:But on that I want to ask a question, because this came up when I was about 17, 16, 17.
Speaker 3:Remember that far back.
Speaker 1:Wow. Oh, my gosh Cool, you got me the first time you got me last time Touche touche, but yeah, remembering that far back when I was a wee witness, napper you know, driving around in my little penny, fathering.
Speaker 3:I thought, so.
Speaker 1:But there was a girl who, let's say, we were in cahoots with each other and she turned around to me and she's like I'm a virgin and I'm like cool I think most of us are at 16, 17, like cool. And then she's like oh yeah, but I really like you know stuff when it goes in my ass and I've had guys play around with my ass and all that sort of stuff and I'm just like how do we?
Speaker 1:define virgin here, like if you're having regular anal sex with a load of different guys, like it's vaginal stuff. But I suppose my question is within that community, are there people who are playing around with, let's say, kink or fetish stuff?
Speaker 3:Oh no, what did you say? A gobby? I don't know that term Blowjob. Oh, we don't call it that.
Speaker 1:But are there people out there within that community who are playing around with kink or fetish-based stuff and writing it off as I'm not?
Speaker 3:having sex. I'm not having sex?
Speaker 1:yeah, is that something that's actually going on? Oh, absolutely. Oh, it is. Talk to me more about that and the prevalence, because now all my head is just going to yes, utah's got a lot of churches, but it's also got a lot of soda shops and a fuckload of BDSM dungeons.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh see, here's the thing. It literally goes back to that soda conversation, right, where it's like well, not technically, okay, but again now we're missing the whole point Because once again, you're why are you even religious? Like no, that's a bad question, but like either these are values that you actually live by or this is something that has been put on you and you. It's not intrinsic, it's just this external thing and these rules that you just push up against. And there you, you learn to resent them.
Speaker 2:I can't imagine if I, if I, did not really truly hold these values as my own and be like again what kind of person do I want to be? How do I want to live my life? What, what kind of habits do I want to have? What am I okay with? What feels within my value system when it comes to, like, my sexual interaction with someone?
Speaker 2:If I'm constantly looking to the rule book, then I feel like we're missing the whole point, like I think you're, you're, you're just setting yourself up for failure. You're setting yourself up for so much shame, so much like oh well, now you're just, you're just setting yourself up for failure. You're setting yourself up for so much shame, so much like oh well, now you're just, you're a rule breaker and all this stuff At the end of the day. That's what really blows my mind is when people like are like, well, there's this loophole and this loophole just have sex, then yeah, like, why do the whole loophole thing? Yeah, because at the end of the day, you're not actually having true integrity. If that's your day like, I would have so much more respect for someone who just has sex yes and it's like, yeah, I had sex because that's what I felt like was right.
Speaker 2:I have so much respect for that. But then someone who's got the loophole over here, this loophole, this loophole I'm like what are you doing? What are you doing that is, that's completely contrary to like the belief system in general, and you also made it miserable for yourself because now you didn't even have a good time because you were so caught up in like the loophole of it all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah you know what I mean. It's like the soda thing. It's these people that drink the 44-ounce sodas every single morning and they're like well, but like they're completely addicted.
Speaker 3:It's not coffee.
Speaker 2:It's not coffee, just have a cup of coffee, then my goodness, that's not what this is actually about. And I think it's this unhealthy relationship with sexuality and religion that, like, babe, you need to sit with yourself and if this isn't for you, then it's not for you. But you need to own that then and you need to figure out what kind of life you want to live, whether that's within a value system, whether, like what kind of life you want to live, whether that's within a value system, whether it's within a different one. And you need to own that and quit making yourself miserable to please other people and for some guilt towards God. Like that's not the God that we believe in, like it's that's not our theology. You missed the whole point, like you missed it all. So, to me, missed the whole point, like you missed it all, so to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, at that point I'm like just have sex like it's?
Speaker 2:yeah, you'll be figured. We don't even believe in hell, so like I don't understand what you're so afraid you're not going to hell. But like for me, yeah, my reason behind staying celibate is, I think, very different. I'm not doing it for somebody else, yeah, truly like genuine. And I'm not doing it because I feel guilty, like I'm going to somehow be bad in the eyes of God. Like that's not it either. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know if that actually answered any of your questions. No, it totally does, and I think that's perfect place to wrap this up, like, yeah, you summed it up, but before we do, rapid fire round. Okay, all right, I'm calling it sin or win.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh, boy, okay Okay.
Speaker 1:In one sentence or less your thoughts on knees.
Speaker 2:Knees.
Speaker 1:On knees right.
Speaker 2:On knees.
Speaker 3:Not knees, definitely not knees knees.
Speaker 1:I've got terrible knees oh, oh jordan put your knees away, you slut okay, I'm ready so one sentence less your personal thoughts around it.
Speaker 2:Masturbation I think it has been villainized to no end and that is completely false. But but I do not masturbate. But do I think masturbation is bad?
Speaker 1:no, I like it me too we know, we know you like it and yeah yeah, whether religious or not, that applies.
Speaker 2:That applies to people within my religion as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, watching porn as a couple.
Speaker 2:I think that that's a complete couple decision like 100%.
Speaker 3:I love it.
Speaker 2:Plus, porn is so subjective as well Like porn could be created by you too that you're watching as well.
Speaker 1:You could be watching yourself, couldn't?
Speaker 2:you yeah, exactly, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Here's a question is watching yourself in the mirror porn?
Speaker 3:that's four years I don't like watching myself and see, I mean I guess you could classify it as that, yeah because it's not recorded.
Speaker 1:It's live stream it's a live stream I'm an only fans creator for my only fan, which is my wife, who's alive.
Speaker 3:We're there, we're live streaming.
Speaker 1:Sex outside of marriage.
Speaker 2:Just like my personal opinion on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm no one's judge, so Do what you do Do what you do. Yeah, I don't expect anyone to have my same religious beliefs in any capacity, even people within my own religion, like you know it's nuanced, do yeah all right.
Speaker 1:Last one okay, and this one's a bit of a fun one to have fun with, but having a kink for religion itself.
Speaker 2:Oh, like in what capacity?
Speaker 3:You mean like people dressed as nuns in the porn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, there you go.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that could get a lot of people going. We don't have that at all, but I can think of some in particular, like some things. Yeah, that could be quite a turn on. Yeah, yeah, there we go.
Speaker 1:It could be a turn on. Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 3:It could be a turn on there we go, I think kink is great Like highly encouraged. I'm divorced, so I'm allowed to have sex because I've technically been married.
Speaker 2:Technically, everyone's like I'm allowed to have sex too. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:And you're slighting it off as well because you've got your ankles hanging out.
Speaker 3:I see what you're doing. I do my can. My cane calls. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Nikki, once again you have been brilliant.
Speaker 3:Amazing, loved it, thank you.
Speaker 1:More episodes are required from you.
Speaker 2:Yes, More hangouts, oh, please yes. I could talk about sex toys and sexuality and religion all day.
Speaker 1:I love it, and you know what? I will bring you a 44-gallon drum of soda next time.
Speaker 3:No, she doesn't like the soda over here. Can I ask a question actually?
Speaker 1:Yeah sure.
Speaker 2:Can I ask a question when you found out like I am celibate or just like religious in general?
Speaker 3:You announced it to the class. Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Did that change like like your opinion or anything?
Speaker 3:I was more fascinated as to like holy crap, you're doing this Amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But I found it more like encouraging and yeah, just no judgment at all Just like I was very amazed and like was very I don't know what's the word really wanted to get to know you, because I was actually so appreciated that you actually took this path, even though you're not doing anything that we're learning in class.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, me taking avid notes. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:The 201 questions. I feel like sometimes go Nikki.
Speaker 1:I'll just tell you in the car, yeah, I also felt like a sense of wonder and awe, because getting back to what I was saying about people who own their sexuality has been powerful. I think from the first moment that you started speaking, I got that sense from you, and sexuality doesn't mean that you need to be out there banging everybody.
Speaker 1:Sexuality, it can just be how you interpret it yourself and I can see that you're so strongly linked to that and that is so fucking cool and especially in today's society right where like kids are out there having anal sex at 12 and 13 and they're playing with kink from the age of 14 and they're watching porn and all that sort of stuff. I think to be the outlier within that society is amazing and shows real strength and character.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I can't wait to come and visit you in Utah Guys.
Speaker 1:thank you, I'm going over.
Speaker 3:Let's be fair, you're going over for the ghost hunter guy no, I'm going to go and see Nikki and to get that soda, exactly. So I haven't had a soda for like five years. I was telling Nikki and I do love Dr Pepper so I will have to go over.
Speaker 2:We'll get you a dirty Dr Pepper.
Speaker 3:Dirty Dr Pepper.
Speaker 1:Dirty Dr Pepper is will catch you next time.
Speaker 3:Bye, super sex.
Speaker 1:Ciao, well, well, well, that was an episode right. Huge love and thanks to Nikki Kelly for bringing her whole self, her faith, fire and fantastic insight to the Super Sex Podcast. If this episode hit home, whether you're still sitting in pews or haven't stepped in the chapel for years, I hope it reminded you that your sexual self and your spiritual self aren't enemies. You can hold on to both and you deserve both. And if you're navigating shame, religious pressure or just figuring out what your pleasure looks like in a world that told you to shut that part down, keep going. There's room for you here. Make sure that you follow Nikki for more incredible content and if you love this convo rate review, share it with someone who needs it and maybe say a little prayer for Better Sex Ed while you're at it Till next time, stay curious, stay kind and stay sexy. Amen.
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