Super Sex

Episode 53: Kink Isn’t What You Think: Naya Arian on Psychology, Presence & Permission to Feel

• Jordan Walker, Kate Campbell & Tarsh Wilson

Share episode

Send us a text

Forget everything you thought you knew about kink and BDSM. Professional mistress Naya Aryan pulls back the leather curtain to reveal a world where power exchange becomes a profound tool for healing, connection, and even therapy.

"People come to see me to explore their innermost desires that they might not in their day-to-day lives," Naya explains, quickly dismantling stereotypes as she reveals how sessions often transform into therapeutic experiences. Her clients span all walks of life – from high-powered executives to students – united by their search for embodied experiences in an increasingly disconnected world.

What emerges throughout our conversation is the surprising psychological depth behind kink practices. Many drawn to extreme sensation play are actually disconnected from their bodies, using intense physical experiences to "drop in" and feel present again. This resonates whether you're into kink or not – think about why you might crave an intense workout, hot bath, or even pain-inducing treatments. It's all about finding pathways back to embodied experience.

Most fascinating is Naya's approach to "holistic kink" – considering a person's entire wellbeing including physical health, emotional state, and psychological needs. She emphasizes that consent in kink goes far beyond a simple "yes" – introducing concepts like rolling consent, safe words, and careful communication that mainstream relationships could greatly benefit from. Her description of proper aftercare following sessions highlights how much of what people truly crave is genuine connection and care.

Whether you're kink-curious or simply interested in better understanding human psychology, this episode offers profound insights into desire, communication, and what our bodies are really asking for beneath the surface of everyday life. Listen with an open mind – you might be surprised what resonates.

🎧 Listen now on all major podcast platforms!

Check us out on Instagram and YouTube now!

www.instagram.com/supersex_podcast

https://youtube.com/@supersex_podcast?si=r2duzemPxjUHVg0J

https://x.com/supersexpodcast?s=21

Or our new Discord 

https://discord.gg/NGuFgm9X

 
 Don't forget to check out the podcast at:

https://www.jordanwalkerrse.com/podcast-1

or see what Jordan is up to teaching all things sex ed at:

www.youwontlearnthisatschool.com


Find Naya here:

https://www.instagram.com/naya_arian_/

https://mistressnaya.godaddysites.com/

https://scarletblue.com.au/bdsm-fetish/mistress-naya?city=Perth&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAac0AYQKxqyiVa5ZJXDYbGS5VulQFjd87FAQzKSG1JrcOc8SRxSebGyD8RmXFg_aem_-Mu1WIHxFoO3y2WqCI5JcQ


The doll herself Kara Elkes has gathered the icons, the legends, and the absolute divas — and it’s all FOR. THE. DOLLS.

🌈 Show up. Show love. For The Dolls Event

🎟️ Get your ticket now at events.humanitix.com/for-the-dolls

🎫 $35 presale, $40 on the door — or FREE entry for all trans, non-binary, and First Nations fam. Jus

Speaker 1:

Alright, guys, before we start today's episode, I want to tell you about a little event that's happening here in Perth, august 16 at Connections Nightclub this one well, it's time to fundraise for the dolls. Cara Elks has gathered icons, legends and allies for one reason, and one reason only, and that is to support our trans folk in Perth fighting for life-saving, gender-affirming care. This is hosted by Veronica Jean Jones, with a lineup that's hotter than your group chat and raffle prizes that absolutely slay. The tickets are $35 pre-sale, $40 on the door, and there is free entry for trans, non-binary and First Nations folks. Just DM Cara Elks to get on that list. So let's raise the roof, raise some funds and raise each other up a little bit. All right, folks?

Speaker 1:

Today's guest is not your typical intimacy coach. Naya Aryan is a professional mistress, kink consultant and holistic educator who blends deep psychological insight with the art of play, power and erotic connection. We are talking about kink, but not just the stuff that gets clicks. We're going deep. We're going into ritual, into healing, and we're going into how our desires reflect something ancient, something intelligent even, and something that many of us have never dared to name. So, whether you're curious about impact play, interested in the emotional intelligence of dominance and submission, or you just want to be a better lover and listener? This episode is for you. So get comfy, drop your assumptions and let's meet a woman who holds power with elegance and intention.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Super Sex, the podcast that dives into sex, relationships and absolutely everything in between. We're stripping away shame, turning up the truth and keeping it smart, playful and unapologetically real. So buckle up, because the combos are deep, the topics are juicy and the safe word is always more. Let's get into it. Alright, guys, on the pod today we have the wonderful Naya Arian. How in hell are you?

Speaker 2:

I'm well, thank you, how are you?

Speaker 1:

Very good, thank you. We also have my darling, tash Wilson. How are you?

Speaker 3:

Good, but please don't call me darling. It was a bit weird. Why, I don't know.

Speaker 1:

It's staring straight into my eyes while you say it Some complex psychological stuff we need to unpack there.

Speaker 3:

Okay, yes, we do. I'll just do my.

Speaker 1:

Tom Jones, little hand gesture and you know that you're in trouble. This is for another episode yeah, so you are a mistress, so you? Are a mistress. I am A full-time professional mistress. I'm so excited, I am fascinated by this. First, though, explain because I've got hardly any sort of any connection to that kink world Explain to me what a mistress does and why a mistress might be a professional at what they do.

Speaker 2:

So people come to see me to explore their innermost desires that they might not in their day-to-day lives, and that can include anything from a touch sensual session to some extreme kinks that we explore together. I have quite a broad bandwidth of my. I suppose you call them the boundaries and limits that I enjoy. And.

Speaker 2:

I can hold container for a lot of people's desires and limits without actually having to enjoy them. So that is my pleasure is holding that container for their pleasure. So somebody can come to me for all sorts of things. A lot of the time it turns into therapy sessions yeah, a lot of the time it turns into them just needing connection and comfort and somebody to talk to. So it can be as simple as a come in and do a quickie session and that's all they're wanting and it's not much connection. And to an overnight, 12-hour stay with somebody, yeah, they're very different. It's a broad range of things that I can cover. Wow, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So many questions from that, yeah.

Speaker 2:

It's so hard to tell you specifically because, like there are so many kinks, hundreds, hundreds. I see people from tickling clients to spanking, to adult baby diaper wearers to foot fetish, to hardcore BDSM, pain and degradation, where they don't even like to be talked to or looked at. They're just a thing.

Speaker 3:

So it's varied drastically yeah, Just so everyone knows, Jordan and I are sitting here with our mouths open like just really invested in this right now.

Speaker 1:

I was just sitting there as soon as you said like foot fetish and I'm like thinking about my feet and I'm like nobody will pay for that shit.

Speaker 3:

Nobody will pay for that shit. We're both feet haters.

Speaker 2:

Look, I wasn't adverse to feet when I started, but it definitely wasn't something I ever thought of enjoying or exploiting for money or anything. And getting very good at controlling oneself at having your feet worshipped, because I'm very ticklish. So they get a little warning. But at the same time, yeah, I didn't realise how much of a common thing it is. Foot fetish is really common. Yeah, I think it's one of the most common ones.

Speaker 3:

I was going to try to sell my feet on Feet Finder or something, and then I was just like you know what I hate feed. I don't even want to look at my own feed To take the photos of the feed.

Speaker 1:

You mean take the photos of your feed, not actually sell your feed.

Speaker 3:

No, no, you know, there's some weird-ass German that's sitting there going, tash will sell me her feed.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly, she'll be walking around on stumps like a little pirate for the rest of the day. How?

Speaker 3:

did you overcome that? I'm going to take notes now, just FYI.

Speaker 2:

I suppose, because it's when somebody enjoys feet. You can see their enjoyment and pleasure and you can feel it from them. So leaning into that and drawing that out of them and then allowing that, that's what they get desire and satisfaction out of and they get fulfillment out of that, and sometimes they're very shamed in their lives of enjoying something like that. So making it a safe space is my priority. So in part of that is me not having a reaction to things and I'm not going to do something I'm not comfortable with.

Speaker 4:

Like you said, you get irked by your own feet, so it's not a great idea to be a foot model, but it's nothing I do is beyond my comfort, If there is and I find it.

Speaker 2:

I've found triggers and discomfort while scening because there's stuff that I haven't done and obviously in the negotiation process my person who I'm doing that with knows this. But yeah, it's part of the process and it's just a something that I can blank out to then allow that experience with that person. Wow, yeah, lots of self-control. Yes, don't kick them in the face.

Speaker 3:

I know you're ticklish, but breathe in, out, in out.

Speaker 1:

The general idea like and I'm talking like broader society when they sit there and think of the people that goes to see a mistress, and I think this is like media driven right. It's normally always either this dweeby little guy that had mummy issues as a kid that just needs to get spanked, or it's a high-flying businessman that you know has just got all this complete power in his day-to-day life and he just needs to have that taken away. Is that true?

Speaker 2:

Yes, and everything in between. Okay, so like all my clients are all walks of life, but there is a heavy element of powerful people in higher roles. So I have people who are in positions where they're managing teams and millions of dollars and whatever their processes.

Speaker 3:

Are I really just wanted to say CEOs from the company? I don't want to say it.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if I've got any CEOs they haven't divulged that but I'm sure they're pretty much high up there or you won't have that CEO.

Speaker 1:

No, because that fuckers on a tight leash right now. Right yeah, he ain't getting let out of the house.

Speaker 3:

That's the first thing that crossed my mind. When you're like high up there, I'm like oh, that's my joke for the day Tick. Like oh, that's my joke for the day Tick.

Speaker 2:

So every walk of life then, yes, yep, I think my exposure to people it's mainly men. About 1% of sex workers' experience of the female or AFAB people comes through our doors and I'm still considered a sex worker in the field that I do, Even though it's not about seeing me for that. It is an element of kink and can be depending. But, yeah, everything from, yeah, high power people to your construction tradies who see me, to people who are students I have a few doctors on rotation that are open about it. So, yeah, I have a lot of people. I like it when they tell me and give me that sort of disclosure because it gives me that element of understanding them more and their inner world and workings. Because it's usually people with those high power positions or a lot of responsibility in their day-to-day life that just want to not think and have that container held for them, because they're always holding it for somebody else or doing in life.

Speaker 2:

So it's not just about that kink and sex element. They just don't want to have to be the one making decisions.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And they hand that over quite willingly most of the time I'm like hang on, we need negotiation here.

Speaker 1:

No, we don't Just fucking take it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, do whatever you want to me. I'm like careful, don't say that around me, no, they learn quickly, that's okay.

Speaker 1:

So it is, in a way, then, a sense of therapy.

Speaker 3:

Yes, it's because we're starting to see. It sounds like a really fun therapy session.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, it can be and it can also be really heavy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2:

So, like I work with people that are often coming to me because of past traumas and they're either gaining control of something again in their life and by doing it in this safe space and gaining that sense of comfort and control with me, they're able to lean into it and have that ownership of their desires and pleasures.

Speaker 2:

But then in turn it can trigger a lot of their old stuff. So that's where aftercare comes into play and I'm very heavy on aftercare in kink because people don't understand how mental and psychological kink is and how deep it can go. It can be very superficial and play and fun, because that's where it is nice and lands there for a lot of people, but it can also be very deep and I hold that container for them afterwards and have that check-in and be like how did you go through it? Did anything come up for you? Do you want to discuss anything? So it's almost like a therapy session at the end which is part of the aftercare. I've been in therapy myself for five years continuously, so I have a lot of background knowledge of bringing in that trauma awareness around kink. And yeah, it goes a lot deeper than people realise.

Speaker 2:

And I just have a knack for asking those questions like oh, when did you start liking feet? And they're like well, and they tell me their story of either liking their mum's shoes or just seeing a foot that particularly tickled their interest, and it generally is from that young age to teen years that they're like. No, I actually really like this thing yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's, and I can see that in you, because you've got this calm, quiet demeanour where, like I could just tell, you all of my secrets right now.

Speaker 3:

I know.

Speaker 1:

I'm sitting here going.

Speaker 3:

Oh, what shouldn't I say on the pod? How deep is this therapy session going for Jordan and I?

Speaker 1:

She's going to charge you for this, I know I know, I'm going to get my invoice later but that really is being a part of what you do, isn't it? You've got to have the personality type in order to do that, but I want to know how much of that is a performance to do that. But I want to know how much of that is a performance. Like, when I walk into a classroom or a workshop or online sort of one-to-one stuff, I move into a different space.

Speaker 1:

I'm not the Jordan that I am at home. I'm now educator.

Speaker 3:

I'll put that different. You probably do the same with nursing. I think if you were the Jordan at home and I was the Tasha at work, we would be fired. Probably would be. Yeah, we would be. But, it is true, because I step into a whole, like as soon as I've got somebody in the room the consultation room and I step in. I'm a whole different person.

Speaker 1:

And do you find that that's the same with you, or do you bring like a lot of yourself into that space?

Speaker 2:

It's a mix for me. So I like to liken it as putting on a hat. Literally I wear a wig for my work and it's part of my anonymity for work. But also it helps get me in that headspace and that mindset of dominant and holding that space In saying that I'm not somebody's dominant until they give me that permission to be. So, even if somebody's come through my door, we've not had negotiations. We are adult to adult. We're having that chat and then once we switch into that scene, that's when the mistress comes in. So even though I'm negotiating that scene and I'm being the top and dominating that time because I don't know how to have those conversations it's still me. It's more of a tailored edge of me.

Speaker 2:

And then once I get to know my clients, especially my regulars I've got several regulars that they do get the unadulterated version of me because I've built that trust with them and so have they. They're a safe space for me to lean in and be my silly ADHD self. That's chaos. I just know how to not let that out at times and I use that in my sessions and to inspire me because my creativity comes through my sessions. So once they do get to know me and they're more comfortable with that and they've seen that glimpses and I've been able to have that safe landing. Then, yes, I can rock up to sessions and there's some clients, I see, without all the hair and makeup, because that's the connection we have now and we can just land into it and go straight away without the theatrics I suppose. So some people prefer it. I think there's a heavy reason why I do. It is because when you think of going to a professional mistress or a dominatrix, you think the leather and chains and you know power poses and corsets and stuff like that.

Speaker 2:

So, there's an element of that I bring to it because that's what I need to advertise around, bringing in customers because it is still a business, but also still make it my own. So I still do those things, but to my level of comfort and not the shoulds. Do I want to wear a corset today? No, I don't want anything touching my tummy so I'm not going to. So I still have those that fuel how I am going to present for that day. But it's still that mode that you step into because it is work and my personal dom that comes out with my business and then versus my business dom are very different. If somebody's seeing me for a paid service versus a connection that I'm building up over time, that is a dynamic. Personally, that's separate as well. Yeah, it's like a different personally, that's separate as well, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Like a different personality sort of thing.

Speaker 2:

No, it's just the energy. Okay, so if I'm seeing somebody in my personal life that I am seeing as a submissive and that we're building that connection that's more long-term, it's going to take into factors of our external worlds and what else we're bringing to the table our life outside of it Not that the sessions don't, but it's a different element because it's more personal and when I connect like that it is deep for me. Whereas I'm not giving that deep of my stuff, I'm holding deep for them in service.

Speaker 1:

I see what you mean.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I'm not giving as much as my personal side Like it comes out, of course. But yeah, that takes time with long-term clients.

Speaker 1:

And that's what I think I always say to a lot of guys that I work with is sex and intimacy gets better with that deeper connection.

Speaker 2:

It absolutely does. Kink is the same. Yeah, yep.

Speaker 1:

It's almost as though these sex.

Speaker 3:

That's why people don't get pussy on first date. It's never good, some people do Some people do, I don't, it's never great though, is it no, exactly no. You just met them.

Speaker 1:

Like you said, connection yeah, but you don't really know what they like, what they're into, unless it's a topic on the first date.

Speaker 3:

let's be honest, If people listen to the podcast and go on a date with me, they're probably like I already know you, tash, so let's talk.

Speaker 1:

By the way, I brought my own whip. I know it's the first date and we're at a kid's club, but sure. There's something that you mentioned there, though, which I found very interesting. From my personal point of view is because, probably about four or five years ago, my wife and I went to see a burlesque show, but it was at a kink club, and that was the first time that we ever stepped into that kink world. Now she'd been the same as 100 million other women and just watched that Fifty Shades of Grey.

Speaker 2:

You know and she's watching it, watching it, watching it.

Speaker 1:

And then we walk into the kink club and she's like oh, it's not like that at all. Is it Like? Where is all like the fine leathers and the velvets and this and that? But I think there is that aspect of there, is that sort of material aspect to kink that a lot of people are expecting, and that's what you were sort of saying on there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it just depends on like what. When you say kink to somebody, what comes up for them? Because a lot of it is a skewed view of what society might have told you it was, or a Fifty Shades of Grey. So if you talk to a lot of people in the kink community about Fifty Shades of Grey. We're not too happy about that movie.

Speaker 3:

No, that's why I went.

Speaker 2:

They kind of touch on it in the second one-ish, but they don't make amends for it. But, in saying that it opened up kink for non-taboo discussion. It would open it up to everyone to be like oh cool, it's more of a non-taboo and people started talking about it more openly. So it did amazing for that side of the BDSM community, but not so great as the representation for it. No.

Speaker 1:

Do you think that BDSM and kink has really come out of its shell since that film dropped?

Speaker 3:

365 Days is a better one. I reckon for it, you reckon.

Speaker 1:

I thought that series was crap. It was, but I don't like it, it was that guy. He was so sleazy. It was the guy, oh no.

Speaker 4:

So that's why you were watching it. You thought it was good for that and I'm sitting there going.

Speaker 1:

What a douchebag that guy is.

Speaker 2:

It's still like that. Like what do you call it kidnapping? And against your will and all that sort of stuff, and consent is still like you can definitely do that stuff consensually, but there is that it's still a fantasy right. So that fantasy it played was hot. Like a lot of really good sex scenes. I do like all the drinking my water with gin.

Speaker 1:

See, the thing is with those films, though, is they're so popular for a reason because I think that they're starting to hit on, like these, core and very deep issues that a lot of people are wanting to explore but aren't able to for who knows, whatever reason.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes that is where I come in. So people do come to see me when they can't experience that in their day-to-day vanilla lives. And I think yes, the movie Fifty Shades of Grey definitely opened up for the community with BDSM and brought a different light to it. And because I started practising after that came out, I'm not sure how the influx with my sort of work went. But we're definitely not saturated by any means, especially in Perth. But yeah, it's, everyone's view is just so different and it depends on your upbringing.

Speaker 2:

It depends on how sexually open you are when you raised and if you talk about it like I did not, like we did not talk about anything, we didn't talk about periods we didn't talk about like you know are like you know, are you safe? Okay, that was it.

Speaker 2:

Like what is safe is talking about consent talking about you know what pill I was on or if I was using condoms or not. So it's like there was a lot of gaps. And there's so much gaps in kink as well, not just sex, so that's where it like leads into. A lot of people come to see me and they're just like oh my God, I didn't realise there was so much to this. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Because they have that preconceived idea, like you said, like the velvet walls and the leather and chains, and it's like I could do kinky in this room. So it's not, you don't need all of that stuff.

Speaker 1:

That's helpful, but yeah not a requirement, not necessary. Yeah, do you ever get like partners?

Speaker 2:

coming to you to learn how to explore these things together and couples, yes. So partners, um, I get. Sometimes it's one person. I have a one of a couple that come to me and it's because her partner can't deliver the more extreme impact play and so he waits in the car park. She comes in and sees me and then I don't do a lot of aftercare with her because she gets it mainly from him.

Speaker 3:

But we do have like a touch. I like that yeah.

Speaker 2:

And so then we have a connection afterwards to obviously break out of the scene, have our own little mini aftercare, but she gets most of it from her dominant, who then takes her off and he's expressed interest in learning a little bit more but and takes her off and he's expressed interest in learning a little bit more. But it's up to them whether they go down that road. I've had a couple who have come to see me just to play and then they've gone from there like, oh, we've got a lot to learn. Can we book in a session? So then we do a teaching session together and run through the basics of how I do what I do and how I do my flow. A lot of the time people are like how do you get your ideas, how do you know what to do next? And a lot of the time, if you do something enough, you get good at it. And that's the same with kink. That's true yeah.

Speaker 2:

So if you practice it and do it and research it and learn about it and talk about it, the more you do those things, the more fluid things become. So yeah, Fascinating.

Speaker 1:

I've got so many things running through my mind right now. I know, right, I know. It's like I could literally take this conversation a hundred million different ways.

Speaker 3:

Yes, which way are we going?

Speaker 1:

Well, I think we started this off, though, with this idea of psychological stuff, and we talked like a tiny bit about like impact and the different types, but you talk a lot about holistic kink. Yes, what the hell is holistic kink?

Speaker 2:

So holistic kink for me is taking into all aspects of somebody's being when you're going into kink, so I have a chat to them about, okay. What do you want to feel in this session? What's your experience with what we're exploring? What are your limitations and what are your body limits? And also what's going on for you at the moment that I might need to be aware of and I normally list off, like life stresses, any traumas that might come up. It's harder to get deeper with clients that come to see me more for the one-offs when I have that more exposure to someone and understanding them as a person. That's what I love, because we can go deeper. We can explore deeper levels of why they like what they like and how they want it tweaked. And it's taking into consideration their health, their medication, any sensory needs that they may have, because the majority of kinky people are neurodiverse. Yes.

Speaker 2:

Yep, yep, sensory joy.

Speaker 3:

I'm making sure I'm never medicated.

Speaker 1:

That's a problem for everybody, not just you.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, they might not understand that, like the medication that they're taking, might impact certain experiences and with my nursing background, I can bring that in as well of my understanding of the human body and bring it all together for a scene that is going to capture all of their caring kink and hopefully deliver their pleasure in angles that they didn't even realise that they needed it.

Speaker 2:

So they might come to me being like I want a hardcore impact session but, what they get out of it is the care afterwards and the nurture and the sensory from holding them in that space afterwards. So that's what I normally find with people they like to get smacked with the fun things but don't actually understand that that connection and coming back to reality is so important. It is normally not something that is put a lot of attention on and grounding afterwards.

Speaker 1:

I think a lot of people are actually striving for connection. Yeah, like that's.

Speaker 2:

Especially in this day and age, with the technology that they have, they are just so starved of it. Absolutely, you're so starved of it.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and young guys especially. They're not being taught how to talk to people, talk to women, talk to other guys.

Speaker 3:

No, that's why I deleted all dating apps, because they can type to you and then you meet them and they're like.

Speaker 1:

But the thing is like they can't talk because they've never been given those skills and they, like this generation, is having less and less sex than any other generation before it.

Speaker 1:

Really, this generation and it's not because they can't, it's not because they're having dick issues or vaginal issues or anything in between, it's because they don't have the skills to connect and communicate and read emotion and stuff Exactly which I think that's where, like what I'm seeing is like this broader scope when you're doing multiple sessions with a person, you're looking at those very fine details in their body, like how they respond to something, how their eyes dilate and whatnot, and you're reading that in order to give them what they want, right? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

A lot of it is body cues because they don't tell me enough of the information I need. Most of the time I have men walk through my door who aren't in touch with their body. I feel like a lot of people are disconnected from their body, like it's cut off from their head, and that is because of a whole range of things. But when you can get somebody to drop in and they get that, like whoa, it's holding that space for them and I have to read their body because they don't know what's going on and making sure that obviously their consent is still there and they're happy to go ahead. But yeah, their body is what's telling me what's next most of the time and it's intuitive.

Speaker 2:

But but I do find that I feel like the aftercare and the connection afterwards is very fulfilling because of this lack of connection that we're having, because people don't know how to sit down and connect with the other human that's in front of them and that's actually sparked off why I'm doing one of my workshops called Blissful Bonding, because people don't know how to connect with each other mentally, let alone. Then let it be physical, because if you connect physically, like you're saying, on a first date, there's nothing. There's no substance there. It could be a fun time but it's not satisfying to that level of like, connection and deep sharing of that experience.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because it's almost as though when you do have that connection, what you say you can drop into your body. You can drop into that safety and that security around that connection and you can allow your body to experience everything at once. Because the one thing that I do know is the way our nervous systems work is that when you are stressed or feeling that little bit of tension within yourself, it shuts off all those pathways to the brain. So basically, you can't feel your body anymore, and maybe that's why a lot of your clients aren't feeling their body or not connected to their body, because they've got that cortisol running through them all the time and they're just not there.

Speaker 2:

It's usually why a lot of people like extreme pain, because they're not connected to their body.

Speaker 2:

So by feeling the extreme pain they then feel that sense of connection and it's satisfying to them because it brings them and grounds them into it and sometimes it can just be for that release and that adrenaline rush. But I find that a lot of my extreme pain sluts are so disconnected from their body, they just don't have that ability to drop in outside of that play. Yeah, it's fascinating because, talking to them outside of those scenes, they're living in their head and anxiety and stress and busy and life, and it's like what do you do for you? What do you do to ground yourself, to connect to your body, to connect to your core needs, and they say come and see me. But they need so much more than that really, and I try and nourish that with them as well being like well maybe this might be a good idea to you know self-cares and grounding and put you first.

Speaker 2:

Whether or not they do. That's up to them. But yeah it's interesting.

Speaker 1:

You know, I think you've just made me realize that I might be a kinky individual. You've just realized that now.

Speaker 3:

After all these episodes and going to uni studying sexology, you're just realizing that now.

Speaker 1:

I could have told you that ages ago. My background is that I got vaccine injured and the stress and the fear from that made me, in a way, disconnect from my body. Right, and in order for me to try to reconnect to my body, I could have chose kink, but instead I chose ultramarathon running, right, but the whole time I was sitting there and I was enjoying the pain of that as a way to reconnect to myself. And I'm sitting there thinking like that's the exact same fucking thing that we're talking about right now, like you're back in your body yeah, it's getting back in there.

Speaker 2:

thinking like that's the exact same fucking thing that we're talking about right now, like you're back in your body.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's getting back in there and, like other people, might get different mechanisms like going to the gym to blow off some steam or reconnect or going for a run or I don't know, getting bladdered on tequila or something like that.

Speaker 2:

Remedial massage.

Speaker 1:

Or the above Remedial massage.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, If I'm touch starves. My remedial masseuse has a lot of time with me so I can be in receive sometimes. But yeah, it's definitely. There's so many avenues of experiencing pain that people don't understand that they're putting themselves through that they're actually getting enjoyment out of and is bringing them into it Getting a wax Like, but also some did, they do to me. But also some people don't like I actually really like it or getting tattooed, oh that's me.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, we're both covered in tattoos. I fell asleep in my last tattoo. Actually, I had a job interview while I was getting tattooed once, like they were tattooing my back, and I was just like on a phone on a job interview. I got the job. But I'm like gosh, yeah, and then I fell asleep on one of them. That's amazing.

Speaker 1:

What? You fell asleep on one of your bosses.

Speaker 3:

No, I fell asleep while getting tattooed, all right.

Speaker 4:

Thanks for clarifying that one. Oh my God, just a touch note.

Speaker 3:

No, I've never slept with a boss before. Just so people know.

Speaker 2:

I am my own boss, I'm just like.

Speaker 1:

It's a power play it's. So all of this is sort of really starting to pull in again to that sort of connection between psychology and the mind and the body. You're also massive into sensory play, like let's run through some of that because people are either sitting there thinking that it's nice fluffy little whips that are, they don't really hurt, or it's some medieval flail that's going to rip off half your spine. I mean, like what sort of stuff are we talking about that people are coming to you to explore, or both.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think a lot of people don't know what sensory play can involve. So that is a really broad banner and underneath that you have impact play, sensory deprivation, wax play. You can even consider rope a part of sensory play because of the sensations of rope against the skin. So it's a very big umbrella. And then I sort of narrow down into the more impact and wax sensory play. It doesn't have to involve pain, but a lot of people come to me for pain, so I can do a full sensory scene and it's more about grabs and touch and grounding and tickles and that mental fuckery of what's next, what is she going to do next? And a lot of the time I prefer if they are blindfolded because it takes away that sight, so everything else is increased. They're hearing me move around them and my heels clicking on the floor and they're like what is she doing? Where is she moving? What's next? What am I going to? Get hit? And that's what I love, because it's that peak and that desire and then building that crescendo up to that big intensity.

Speaker 2:

Even if it's not pain, it still can be very intense for them and then coming back down and being more sensual and soft and impact play and sensory play can just be done with my hands. I don't need implements and, just like hands, you can be soft, you can be ticklish, you can be scratchy, you can be harsh. So my paddle, my flogger, my cane, my switches, they can all be used in ways to create tickle, to create just that connection to them. Just touching it on them is an extension of me and my energy, so I can use that whichever way that I choose. So it's not necessarily just about what that paddle can do in terms of pain, but how else can I use that? Can I use the edge of it? Can I dig it into them? Can I use it rhythmically? Where on their body are they consenting for me to use it as well?

Speaker 2:

Because heavy impact needs to stay on broader areas like buttocks, thighs, shoulder blades, protected areas of the body. Anywhere that's a joint is a helna. That's like for tickles and light scratches, and then, when you're going further, like abdomens and things like that. That is a case by case and I see a lot of people do extreme things, but that is definitely each to their own where you get into those sort of levels, a lot of people like I'm going to say this wrong bastardado impact to the bottom of the feet. Oh, okay, so caning, scratching, mostly pain. Yeah, I do have a tickle client who well, actually two, who really enjoy tickling to their feet and strapping them down hard to a bench and that's all I do, for the session is climb all over them and tickle them.

Speaker 1:

They just come and you tickle them and that's it. Yeah, fuck, my four-year-old would love that job. I was going to say, the joy is so much fun.

Speaker 2:

I did do a tickle party for somebody's birthday, so I gathered five of my kinky fellow peoples and we strapped him down to the bench and he had five or ten hands on him to tickle and build him up and bring him down and yeah, all the sensations and sensories, and he was rock hard the whole time and enjoying it very thoroughly.

Speaker 3:

We're both speechless right now. Brilliant the joy I understand the blindfolding thing, because that's a big thing for me. We're getting into TMI now, guys.

Speaker 2:

Being perceived is a big thing, so if you can't see yourself being perceived, I love it.

Speaker 3:

Like I find, if I can see what's happening, I'm like, oh, this is fun, yeah. As soon as, like I'm blindfolded, it's like woohoo, let's go. Yeah, because yeah.

Speaker 1:

Because I suppose, like what you were saying, there is when you're walking around and they can hear your heels click. That's almost like raising anxiety levels to a point, and then what you were saying is bringing it back down. It's that wave, isn't it? Yes, and that's what they're really coming for to feel those extremes of the human experience, I suppose, because we don't generally get that, and if you're just doing your day-to-day job.

Speaker 1:

Like I do my day-to-day job and I know what I'm doing. I don't get too high, I don't get too low, I'm just there. Yeah, it's just a thing that you've learned to deal with, right, but it doesn't make you alive.

Speaker 2:

And also when you're in that scenario, you're not thinking about much else, nothing else is going on in your brain because you're so in tune to that particular thing that it takes that weight off everything else.

Speaker 2:

You don't think about anything else because you also don't have to make any decisions, because I'm making them all for you. So it's giving that power, is their release and let go in a form of escapism, but also then creating that sensation and input, because they're so a lot of the time, touch starved or sensory starved because they are going through their day-to-day lives. It's monotony, it's groundhog. I know what I'm doing. I'm going to just do it, go home and then zonk out in front of the telly or whatever, scrolling on Instagram. It's very detached and a lot of people are very much in that state because of the high stress. We're working so much Cost of living is stupid. We're working several jobs a lot of the time and they come to me for that. I just don't want to think. I just want to exist.

Speaker 3:

It would be great for like burnout If You'd be great for like burnout. If someone's burnt out, you just go to you. Yeah, relax.

Speaker 2:

Come have a decompression session.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly Well it totally is like a point of that therapy. Yep, like, I mean, I'm feeling burnout right now and like we haven't even started second semester.

Speaker 3:

I know, like as soon as they're like orientation week, I'm like oh no.

Speaker 1:

I can't orientate.

Speaker 3:

Orientated to what. I couldn't even function on the break of uni, and now it's frigging uni again.

Speaker 1:

What it's nonstop, it is that therapy and it's that bringing it back, isn't it?

Speaker 3:

and how to move from that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that, all right. So what I want to know and I've seen something on this and it freaked me the fuck out it was like a vinyl or plastic sort of bag. Somebody gets put inside it and then vacuum sealed. Yes, you look so excited about that.

Speaker 2:

I am like horrified.

Speaker 3:

What are you watching?

Speaker 2:

Latex bed Okay.

Speaker 1:

Explain to me watching Latex bed. Okay, explain to me what's going on there.

Speaker 3:

All I keep thinking about is dead people in the body bags.

Speaker 2:

So, I've not experienced a latex bed. I've experienced a latex cube, so I was put inside basically PVC piping cube, and it had latex all around very hard to get into. I had a breathing hole.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

And then it was attached to a vacuum cleaner, so it was a bit loud and it was all homemade and it was at one of the kink clubs in Perth and I had somebody I trusted topping and navigating this with me because I wanted to feel what it felt like I was like this is fascinating to me.

Speaker 2:

Plus, I love compression. So one of my aftercare rituals if I'm receiving, I their rituals. If I'm receiving, I have that person lie on top of me and I'm face down and I call it soul squishing me back into my body because I'm grounded. Yeah, it's very connective because their heads right here and we can have our little aftercare chats. So I know I loved that squish and I'm just like would I like the squish of this and would it be too stimulating?

Speaker 2:

So once I was in it I felt weightless. Once I relaxed and because, like the fuck, and I couldn't talk, it was uh-huh or uh-uh, because it's that tight on you you can't move anything and it's just. All it was was a mouth hole and he was talking to me the whole time, which I was really grateful for, couldn't see anything. But then when he's like, do you consent to people touching you? I'm like, yes, please. Then the touch through it. So I'm feeling weightless as well, as then that heightened sensation of touch through the latex is just.

Speaker 2:

I have not experienced something like that. It felt almost like electro play. So if you've got static shock from the cans at the shops, it's like that continuous, and so it like enlightened my sensations and of course, because I was sensory deprived, couldn't hear much because of the noise of the vacuum, so that was kind of added to it as well. My hearing and my sight was taken away, other than his voice, and I think people do it for that escapism, for a type of bondage as well. That level of submission to give yourself is extreme, but also like it turned my brain off in such a gorgeous way that all I could think about was those sensations and the compression of it was lovely. It's like a massive hug everywhere.

Speaker 3:

I'm just seeing the biggest smile on my face.

Speaker 2:

I was like, wow, I got out of it.

Speaker 3:

I'm just like again, again, again, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like I'm just thinking about like how I would feel in that space. And I freaked out when I watched buried with ryan reynolds, where he gets put in a coffin, and that was enough for me. I was just watching a movie and I freaked out, so I would just absolutely claustrophobia was real.

Speaker 2:

I don't have claustrophobia and I had a bit of that as they started it. And that's when he was like breathe, relax, tense, relax, tense everything up and let go. So he already knew that's the process people go through. So he was able to talk me through it and once I like then relaxed because I was sitting up cross-legged. So it was a little bit of an awkward situation and I'd much prefer to try the vacuum beds, because then that lied down position. I've seen so many different porn clips, and especially on FetLife as well, where it's used as a form of bondage for a submissive and then they can be toyed with. So because that latex is so thin, you can put a vibrator through it or flog through it or whatever, and they can't move because they're vacuumed in.

Speaker 2:

It can also be a form of breath play.

Speaker 3:

So I'm just like, oh my God, I have to buy one of these. T in it can also be a form of breath play. So I'm just like, oh my god, I have to buy one of these. Tash tries it out on herself. I can't get out.

Speaker 1:

Always have a spot on, I'll get a call tonight, hey, jordan, I stopped by the shop.

Speaker 2:

I'm stuck. In the latex bag I'm stuck. It's a list.

Speaker 1:

Breath play you just mentioned that that is starting to become super, super prominent now with like this whole strangulation and choking and all that sort of stuff. From the kink side of things, what are we talking about? Because I think they were saying that choking and sexual violence is in like 95% of mainstream porn now and all these young guys are sitting there looking at it going oh yeah, chicks get off when they get choked. It's not the case.

Speaker 2:

And it's not actual choking. So if you move into the kink sphere it's about you've got blood choking and breath choking and when you're playing with blood choking you've got little receptors on either side of your neck which are lined up with your big main vessels and when they're lightly pressed or massaged it gives a signal to your brain that it's not receiving enough blood. It's not receiving enough blood. It's not not receiving blood. It's the signal that you're fucking with. So with that V shape not C shape of your hand because a lot of people you're seeing are doing that C shape and they're pressing on the front of the neck and that is your most vulnerable spot because you've got your voice box and you've got cartilage rings around your trachea and they can snap if they're pushed on too hard and they can then pierce the vessels and you basically drown.

Speaker 2:

And then also people can cause strangulation and passing out and death because they're not taught how to choke in the kink sex way. There's a lot of education that's just being missed because they are seeing it in porn, which is entertainment, not education, and then they're not researching it, just going straight ahead, going, yeah, just choke them and whilst it might feel nice at the time, it's a lot more about that, I feel, the power exchange or that sense of mine. So a lot of women who do enjoy it. They might not lean in it for the heady spins and what it actually can be used for. They're just more wanting it as a like sense of ownership and control, and that's very different as well. You can get that just from a jaw hold rather than the choke, hold Breath.

Speaker 2:

Choking is more of the control of the breath and it's a lot safer because you can. You can create damage. You can scar the vessels on the neck as well if you do it too often and too harsh. Going lightheaded and depriving your brain of oxygen is not very safe. So it's definitely something that people need to have conversations about and they're not.

Speaker 2:

Breath control is literally just covering somebody's mouth and nose and controlling their breath, and holding your breath is safer than stopping the blood flow, and because you can get lightheaded and dizzy, you're still going to have flow of that oxygen around your body and the worst that will happen is that they might get a little bit faint and dizzy, but they will come true. Some people do it for that reason, some people just like it for the heady effect. Some people do it for that reason. Some people just like it for the heady effect, some people like it for the power exchange of you control my breath. So there's so many different elements to somebody's why around it, and that normally then shows you why the specific act that they're doing.

Speaker 2:

But because it's so prominent in porn and then they're not getting the education around it. It's then so dangerous because they're just willy-nilly doing it and I hear so many girls come and they just choke me out of nowhere, without asking or slapping the side of my face, and I'm just like what the fuck? There's that lack of what needs to happen between those negotiations and that consent, the rolling consent that you need to have in engaging with somebody from. Can I kiss you to like? Would you like to be choked? It needs to be an interaction and a question asked, not just like oh, she said she likes it rough, so it means all this stuff.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's it, because I think a lot of guys they don't really understand that, you know, they just think that it does mean as soon as they open up that menu, it's all of the menu, not just a couple of items on it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

But you talk about that ongoing check-in, right? Because a lot of people are sitting there going. I asked for consent, I said yes, can I do this to you, and it happened. But they don't realize that it is a constant process, right.

Speaker 1:

But, what are you looking for in order to get that consent and how are you sort of checking in all the time to make sure that you've still got it, because there are sexy ways to do it and then there are ways that sort of just completely deflate the whole fucking thing. Trust me, I've learned.

Speaker 3:

Your call wise.

Speaker 2:

But somebody who wants to engage with you won't be put off by that.

Speaker 2:

So somebody who has active consent with you and wants to do things, you might feel like you're creepy, you might feel like it's a weird thing or I'm going to break the tension. Regardless of all those things, if somebody is actively wanting to do the things with you, that won't change their mind, yeah. So it can be awkward sitting in that spot being like, oh, this has happened and now we have to get back on track. And now I have to ask the thing again. No, no, no. Have to ask the thing again. No, no, no. It's. We're human, stuff happens.

Speaker 2:

We're goofy, I lean into it and have a giggle and then carry on Rolling consent looks like having safe words in place, having regular discussions with the person around what you're doing, especially if it is more of an extreme play. How does that feel for you today? The check-in of aftercare afterwards did that land today. How did it feel? Did it feel different? Oh, I didn't like that placement. Or it might be because I'm X, y, z in life is then impacting this, so I'm not really feeling it, or I'm needing more of a central side, more than the rough side today. So can we not Like it's both people actively checking in and also letting the other person know where they're at, because we're not mind readers? Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I always have a rolling consent safe word system. It's typical traffic lights red, yellow, green and I ask that with people during their first session. Especially I ask what colour are you? Or I just go green, because sometimes I can get a reaction. I'm like is this a good noise or a bad noise? Because they can sound the same sometimes. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And especially if you're dealing with pain or something that's a little bit more tricky to navigate. Their yike is a good one, but it might sound like a no, so it's needing to get that consent. And also, if you're using the language in a scene that might be like a consensual non-consent, where they're going, no, don't stop. You need to be able to have a very clear understanding that if they say yellow or red, that is the line, that's it. So those discussions, just it's. I find it's natural for me in my connections because of the way I connect with people and how holistically I look at someone um, but not everyone does it, and that's where the failings are coming, where we're not connecting around.

Speaker 2:

Kink first and they're just diving headfirst into it and they don't even have safe words and it's like safe words are for always, I feel, because sometimes we don't even have safe words and it's like safe words are for always, I feel, because sometimes we don't have words for something we're feeling and we might just be like yellow because we need that person to check in with us, but we don't know how to advocate for ourselves at that time. So it can allow that person to step up for us and hold that space for our yellow and it also just pauses everything so that we're not overstepping our own boundaries.

Speaker 1:

And I think that's something as well that like people could just get into their regular everyday sex life, because there are times when you are wanting to do something and as a partner you're like, oh, yeah, this will be great and you know been married for 10 years or whatever. And you're like, oh, let's get on with this. And then you can see that your partner's not 100% in there, but they're not really communicating that to you. But if that your partner's not 100% in there but they're not really communicating that to you, but if they had that sort of language already set up where they can just be like, hey, hello, you agree, you're good, yeah, and it also allows for that person who's seeing the shift like, oh, they're not quite into it, they're not reacting.

Speaker 2:

The same way, you can have that check-in with them like, are we agreeing? Because you can still want to be involved and be agreeing but not have that. That's where this enthusiastic consent I feel like comes into play, because it's very important to have enthusiastic consent and the fuck yes, but sometimes our yes doesn't look like a fuck yes or enthusiastic For whatever reason. I've had a really hard day and I just want to be and receive. Is that okay with you? I want to do this kink, but I'm really unsure because of my history or just because I've never done it before. So I might look like I'm really reserved in this, but I want to try. Can we take it easy and can you check in with me lots? So consent can look like all sorts of things and that hesitation in consent can also look like a lot of things.

Speaker 1:

And I think that's really important to bring up, because we do a lot of education around it within schools and sort of outside as well that if it's not a hell, yes, it's a hell no, and blah, blah blah.

Speaker 1:

But there are those times where it's not a hell, yes, but it is still. I absolutely want this. So it's about understanding that nuance. But at the same time we teach quite a lot about how to read body cues. You know, if their eyes are sort of darting all over the place, if they're looking directly at your hands about what they're going to be doing, if, like their sort of pupils, are getting a little bit bigger, like you know, they're sort of in that point of stress. So you need to start backing off and asking of stress. So you need to start backing off and asking. But I don't think reading body cues is a sort of is a substitute for asking.

Speaker 2:

Not at all. It needs to be with both. So if you do pick up on body cues, it is that check-in, saying is this a good thing or a bad thing? Because everyone's going to be so different and, like you said, all of those things can be a sign of anxiety and they can also be a sign of excitement. So it's checking with that person, because I've had people who are with me and it feels like they're an anxious ball of mess and I'm just like are we good? We're green and they are loving it. I'm just like let's go.

Speaker 2:

I've got their active consent, but to me, my body's telling me, like they are saying no with all of their body, but they're actively telling me they want the thing. So it can be a challenge. But you also have to trust that person and if I'm not comfortable, I'm not going to do the thing. But yeah, it's. That's why kink you people don't just leap into it. I they shouldn't leap into it, but they do. And that's where we get these problems happening, because there needs to be so much more education around it. And it's out there, but people have to seek it. And I love that you are doing this in high schools and providing this information for our kids, because I think that's definitely where it starts and those conversations need to be had.

Speaker 2:

And, yeah, that body language cue, but also that it's up to that person to let you know what their fuck, yes looks like yeah, because I think we we can never really know what's going through somebody else's mind.

Speaker 1:

You said before that a lot of people within a community are neurodiverse. Yes, and I am remembering back, probably about five years ago. There was a young autistic boy and what he would do is he would walk up onto a meter high limestone wall and he would throw himself off onto the sand below without breaking his fall in any way, shape or form, and we were like, oh my God, this kid is like trying to commit suicide. This kid is trying to do this.

Speaker 1:

This kid is trying to do that, but over time, because this kid was also nonverbal, we realised that this kid was actually just looking for that sensory input.

Speaker 2:

Sensory seeking.

Speaker 1:

And while I and my colleague seen it as problematic, for him it was.

Speaker 2:

He was having the best time of his life. He was loving the best time of his life.

Speaker 3:

He was loving it. I'm going to do that again. Scare all the teachers, and that would also be something he would likely do it for, because I'm getting a reaction.

Speaker 1:

This is fun, yeah, so yeah, absolutely. And that's why we sort of need to ask that question and like, obviously I couldn't ask this kid because he's non-verbal. But if you are in that kink scene, you're assuming that the person is verbal enough to be able to say red, yellow or green. Sometimes they're not.

Speaker 2:

So it depends on, well, if you've taken away their talking for conscious decision with a gag, if they're in a vacuum seal and they can't talk, all these sorts of things. So like non-verbal consent, cues and safe words are needed. So, like I said, in that cube I did the uh-huh and uh-uh. So at any time I did uh-uh, they would check in and then they'd ask me again is that a red? Uh-huh, uh-uh, so it's, that's more sort of. They had to carry that conversation a lot more, but that's my safe words that I had. I have a squeaky toy.

Speaker 2:

So that goes into the hand of my people, even newbies, who are doing a little bit more hardcore, because when you get into that subspace or sensory enjoyment or overwhelm, I've had one of my clients have a panic attack with the amount of adrenaline that was going through their body. They had to call red and come down. But she even said it took me a while to say red because I was in the panic and I'm just like, okay, and she didn't think to squeak the squeaker because she just wanted to say red. So she even had it and couldn't do it. So there's times when we can't rely on verbal but you have other things in place, like this in rope a lot of the time is a signal clicking hands, or if you're strung up and you've got keys in your hand and then you drop the keys. There's so many options. Some people have IQs of blinking like, depending on your level of connection.

Speaker 1:

But that's where it all comes down to, that initial conversation around it.

Speaker 2:

The conversation, yeah, and then it can evolve, because otherwise you don't know. No, absolutely.

Speaker 3:

Yep, yep, never go in with the unknown.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and if you do talk about all of the possibilities and outcomes and then you can consent to them and do your risk profile around it, because a lot of the time kink together can be a very new experience for both people involved.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's where you do have to have those running conversations and assess your risk profile in it. What in conversations and assess your risk profile in it? What could be the outcome of this and how would we navigate that and what would that look like? Because then that brings in the safety and then brings in those elements that, okay, this is what I'm willing to do in this and this is what I'm not.

Speaker 2:

A lot of the time, bruises and markings can come into that, because people want to do these fun things and then don't realise that if you get strung up in rope, you're going to have bruises on you for a couple of days. Yeah, what does that look like at work? Can you have appropriately marked bruises at work? Can you cover yourself up? Are you going to get then questioned about this and then somebody reports you because you've got weird bruises? They think you're in an abusive relationship, or if you are a model per se and you're rocking up with bruises everywhere, or there's so many things like that you need to take into consideration outside of the right here and now and what we're doing for fun.

Speaker 3:

So do you? So you teach? Can you teach? So, say, someone's in a new relationship and the woman say loves to be a sub and the new partner has never learnt anything about being a dom. Do you teach that kind of stuff? Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome. Yeah, they can come to me for that A lot of the time.

Speaker 3:

it's breaking down the stigma of what it is to be a dom, because you don't, because a lot of people watch the porn just to learn it and they're like, oh, that's what I do, that's fine. But it's not, it's not.

Speaker 2:

They don't see all the navigating and the negotiating, and the people behind the scenes and the intimacy coach and da-da-da-da.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah because there's a lot of neurons to kink. Isn't there Like? It's the type of paddle that you're using. It's the type of flogger. It's the materials that it's made from. It's where you're standing, it's how you're standing. It's where you're throwing your hands from.

Speaker 3:

And I only ask because obviously everyone M-I-A, I mean T-M-I again, I was like what alphabet am I?

Speaker 2:

using M-I-A.

Speaker 1:

I was like are you going somewhere?

Speaker 3:

No, I might be, I'm going to wherever this freaking zipper bag, the zip line is no, but like I'm a sub, so when I meet somebody I'm open about it, I tell them and then they go, oh yeah, okay, I'll read up. I've never been a dom before. I know nothing about it. I'm like, oh, red flags in my mind or red lights, because I'm like that's very unsafe for me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah too right, because there's so many things that could hurt you and, like you were saying, it's so edgy.

Speaker 3:

So if anyone dates me in the future, they have to go to you to be trained properly.

Speaker 2:

You just need to get them this episode.

Speaker 3:

Minimum of two sessions with Niall yeah exactly, and I want proof that you've gone.

Speaker 1:

You must be like, did that go? Talk to me about wax play though.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah, because I've never tried that.

Speaker 1:

That sounds fun. Oh, it does, and I've seen some of the photos on your Insta and they were fucking wicked.

Speaker 2:

I love wax play.

Speaker 1:

That's not just normal candle wax, though, right, no, no, no, okay, good.

Speaker 3:

Don't go to Dusk and buy a candle.

Speaker 2:

So you can do a few different ways of wax play. Wax play if you get your candles from adult shop, they're not great but they're good enough. You still have to be really careful of, like the height in which you drip it. I call that drip play because it is that dump, dump, dump. The wax play that I like is wax pouring and you make your own concoction. So you buy soy and paraffin wax and then you can put in a what's it called mecca powder. It's a highlighter powder. It's safe and consumable stuff. They put in textures for kids but you get the neons. So then when you do it under the black light and you've got a wax pour, it looks insane. That sounds fun.

Speaker 1:

It looks sexy, it looks totally sexy.

Speaker 2:

And it feels incredible and you can put them at different temperatures. So, depending on your mix of soy and paraffin depends on how hot the wax gets. Yeah, so I normally colour code it with my waxes. So the blue is my lighter, cooler wax, and then you go up to the red and that's my hot wax.

Speaker 3:

Which girls can probably take. As you know, the shower is always scorching hot. Yeah, I love that one.

Speaker 2:

And you can layer them, and you do have to be careful with layering wax as well. A lot of it's about prep, so if you're a particularly hairy person, removing said wax is really hard. Um, so you would get oiled up first, so some sort of like oil base massage. I use something called body dew because it's it still absorbs into the skin but gives me that nice layer that it comes off really easily.

Speaker 2:

Um, removing wax takes just as long as putting it on, so that's also part of the scene and it's like more sensory play and that's where you can bring in potentially edge play with a knife, depending on your consent levels with the person you're doing it with. I do it with a? Um, you know those old school envelope openers.

Speaker 1:

It looks like a knife, but it's made of wood.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's still sharp feeling. The tip is pointy so you can get that flicky feeling, that scratch from it, but using a before that it was my time zone card, so like you can use.

Speaker 3:

How many points do I have? I like that.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, that's what I was using and, depending on somebody's comfort, they might not want the knife because of trauma or whatever the trust that we've built.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, that sort of wax play that I do on my feed, it's, yeah, the wax pouring, and you can book a service. I'm pretty sure he's still doing it. So the person that I went to see, I actually learnt how to do wax with him when we were together and we set up a session Sorry, set up his shed, and so it was just literally all neon lights and we have, you know, those electric frying pans, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

You put a bit of water in them, and then milk, frother, jug metal ones, and that's what you put your wax in, and you can then keep it at all the nice temperature. Put your mica powder in, so you know which one's which, and go to town pouring it.

Speaker 3:

That sounds fun, it is.

Speaker 2:

It's really fascinating.

Speaker 3:

Tasha's going like I don't know what shops do I go to your credit cards?

Speaker 1:

get a workout. Laptop sensory bag wax.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, my bank account's going to be like. What is she doing with all this new stuff?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, my baby cat's going to be like what is she doing with all this new stuff? Yeah, wax plate. I feel like that's quite a cheap If you keep doing it and doing bulk of it, but it can last you a really long time because we get the soy and paraffin from. My brain's not going to remember it's a wholesaler in Wangarra and you buy it like solid and mix it together yourself.

Speaker 2:

So it can be quite cheap. I found the milk frother jugs from Kmart, along with the electric flying frying pan, the mica powder, I think, online on Amazon. So it's not too bad. But then in comparison to my kit, which is probably the kit that I'm walking around with at the moment, is probably about two grand worth of stuff in it that I would touch on a pretty regular basis through work. I mean obviously it's what I do for work, but my personal kit that is 10 years of kink. That's lots and lots of dollars.

Speaker 3:

So yeah, I love that, mine's just my little bed light drawer.

Speaker 1:

Remember back to that Mischief and Mayhem conversation where they had the dildos in the car. That was like weighing it down, and I'm just thinking, like about all your gear in the back of the car.

Speaker 2:

It's a heavy bag.

Speaker 3:

I'm just thinking about how much things I could home make, like the wax, the lube. I'm just like ooh. You can get powdered lube.

Speaker 1:

That's what we talked about then, it's so much cheaper, see, and I think like I sort of wanted to bring up the wax because it's a nice easy intro to playing with King, to playing with sensory experiences as well. I suppose Like it's a lot more tangible and palatable for a lot of people to drip or pour wax than it is to pull out a paddle or a flogger or something along that lines or, you know, get in that cage under my bed.

Speaker 3:

I was like did you see my face? I was like, oh, a cage under the bed. What I'm allergic to? Dust mate. So it has to be vacuumed regularly.

Speaker 2:

It's probably your job as a sub to maintain your cage. Oh, there we go, they're claiming, with that French maid outfit.

Speaker 3:

I was going to say I've got it in the cupboard.

Speaker 1:

It's all right, I'll put it on later. Now I want to finish this up with a question, a personal question. With a question. A personal question because my wife and I have just got tickets to go to our very first kink event. So we're going there. We are basically just going to look to observe, to see what's going on and how it all goes on. But there are, like, obviously different king clubs around Perth. What advice would you give to a complete newbie walking into that space? Because a lot of people that are listening to this are sort of going to sit there and go, you know what? I could totally go and explore that, and now I know that they're probably going to do it. So what advice would you give to an idiot like me who's walking into one of these clubs?

Speaker 3:

Glad he said he's an idiot because he is.

Speaker 2:

I think first of all, have as many conversations with your person as you can about like what you could see that might be something of discomfort. What is a limit of yours to experience together? Are you comfortable seeing the levels of kink that are spoken about in the event description?

Speaker 2:

Because, there's all sorts of kink parties and kink clubs and extreme level of extremes that people are showing. If it's an intro night, wicked, yes, that's great because it's made for newbies. If you're going to something that's a little bit more open dungeon, you could see the public come in and do their thing. They're not allowed to do anything that's beyond the capacity of the venue but that can still involve a lot of quite heavy things that you can see. So, going in with safe words, because if there's a point that you guys come to and you want to yellow out, then you do that together. Definitely that what your agreements are of how much you're going to be involved there as well, because it depends on your level of comfort and your involvement to how much you express yourselves there. If you're just going to witness, then absolutely that is an amazing thing to be able to watch kink. That's one of the things I tell people in my workshops to learn, because that's how I learnt.

Speaker 2:

The first time I saw kink was in a swingers club and I was like I want to do more of that. What are they doing? It sounds fun. They're laughing like I like being spanked, like maybe we could get into this. So it's like being very open-minded to what you can see. Um, kinksters are quite particular about their kits. So if you see somebody's suitcase or bag or anything like that and they might have toys and things like that definitely most kinksters are very happy to talk about their stuff but don't touch anything of anyone else's. I think a lot of people get really excited and be like, oh my God, look at all this stuff and it's almost like an extension of themselves. So it needs consent to then touch ropes or any of somebody's toys and paddles and things like that, and that just comes with touching other people.

Speaker 2:

In general, I think the kink community is one of the most safest places I've been, and I feel safer in a kink club than I do walking around Northbridge because of the level of consent, like I might meet someone and they even ask like, oh, would you like a hug? So it's even at that base level of connection and human contact, um, and that's why I could quite easily walk around naked at a club, a kink club, and feel really safe because of that. So it's yeah, seeing what could potentially come up for you guys. If there is anything of discomfort, what you would then do about it. So your risk profiles around kink, what you're really excited to witness, because it might be very different, like you might really want to watch Wax play, but she really wants to watch Shabari.

Speaker 2:

So, holding space for each other, are you going to spend the whole night connected or are you open to having some time separately, if something collides and you want to be in this room for that, but she wants to be over there, like. Those sort of discussions are really important because it can happen in the moment and that person then is left like I didn't want you to leave my side and it's like, well, I didn't know that and I really wanted to do the thing. So it's the innocent stuff that people just don't think about. So, having that navigation around that and agreement to where you're at with each other, yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1:

I will be talking to her later on.

Speaker 3:

I'll message you and be like make sure Jordan talks to you.

Speaker 1:

What event are you going to? So we're going to the Mayhem event.

Speaker 2:

Yes, at Infusions yes. So that is my dungeon that I work out of yeah, so I used to um, go to club 103, um. They also have a massive staircase so I was over lugging up my bag there, and then I moved to um, connecting with wayna infusions, and that's where I work out of now. So you're gonna see my space yeah, see your space.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it'll be fascinating. Um, so we're sort of psyched about it, but we're like a little bit nervy as well, first time being in that space, and so it'll be an interesting one and they're newbies to perth too.

Speaker 2:

Aren't they the people who are running?

Speaker 1:

it? Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah, are they getting a?

Speaker 2:

lot of traction. It would be cool to check them out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, they're really cool. We had them on the pod a couple of weeks back now.

Speaker 3:

I think so. Yeah, I don't know. All my life and days just blur into one Time. Is why me man? Yeah?

Speaker 2:

Now they talk of intersection sometimes between swinging and kink, and yeah, there's not a lot of overlap and swingers don't like kinksters and kinksters don't like swingers and I'm like swinging is a kink. Come on, guys.

Speaker 3:

It actually is. It's fascinating.

Speaker 1:

Fascinating. All right. On that note, I think let's wrap it up. Where can people find you? Where can I participate in your workshops?

Speaker 3:

For my teacher boyfriends. They need to know where to find you.

Speaker 1:

I love that you said plural with that boyfriends?

Speaker 3:

Well, I don't know. I like options. Exactly. I like the options and then if one like tickles me fancy, then I'm like oh, you're it.

Speaker 1:

They can definitely go for some tickling, yeah, so you can find me on Instagram at Naya underscore, arian underscore.

Speaker 2:

I'm also on FetLife. If you're not already on FetLife, please be warmed. It's the Kinkster's Facebook and you can see everything on there, so nothing is censored. But you can make anonymous profiles. But I am Mistress Naya there I think it's Mistress underscore, naya underscore and my website that you can find through my Instagram link. It's easier to just go through there and I've also got my ad up there for services.

Speaker 3:

I think I already follow you on Instagram.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 3:

That's probably the best place Just to give them all a heads up too.

Speaker 1:

We'll put all those in the show notes anyway, yeah thank you so much. You have been amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the pod.

Speaker 2:

You're so welcome.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for having me. It's been really fun. Yes, I love it. That was something else, wasn't it? A massive thanks to Naya Arian for bringing not just wisdom but depth, grace and clarity to a topic that most people still tiptoe around. If this episode stirred something in you, whether that's curiosity, resistance or a strange flutter in your chest, follow that thread. That's where the real work starts. Now you can find Naya's workshops, mentoring and content via the links in the show notes, and I highly recommend that you do. She's absolutely awesome. You do. She's absolutely awesome, as always. If you love the episode, leave us a review, share it with someone who's King Curious, or just sit with what you learned today. That's also really important. Until next time, stay curious, stay kind and stay in your body.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Jordan

Host