Leading With Heart: Boundaries vs Avoidance and Pleasing vs Serving

What’s the difference between protecting your energy and avoiding people? In this live episode of The Ritual Pantry, Heather and Steph unpack “boundaries” (and why that word can be a trigger), how pleasing creates resentment, and what it looks like to lead from a heart-centered place—especially when you’re tired, activated, or dealing with family patterns. 

This conversation starts with real-life morning chaos and quickly turns into a deep (and hilarious) unpacking of judgment, compassion, and leadership. Heather and Steph explore how often we default to “you should,” why we try to protect others from lessons we’ve already lived through, and how communication (not invisible rules) is the thing that actually creates healthy relationships. They also break down the difference between pleasing and serving—because one leads to resentment, every time—and what it takes to shift into a mindset where life isn’t happening to you… it’s happening for you. 

Call to Action If this episode hit a nerve (in the best way), drop a comment: When have you used “boundaries” when you were actually just out of capacity? And if you’ve got a Pantry Confession—send it in. Anonymous is welcome. 

 #RitualPantry #BoundariesVsAvoidance #PeoplePleasingRecovery #EmotionalWellness #SelfLeadership #PersonalGrowthJourney #MindsetShift #HealingJourney #OkotoksAlberta #PodcastCanada 

Hosted By:

Stephanie Stefan — Instagram: @spaghettitreechef | Website: spaghettitreechef.com 

Heather Wurz —Instagram : @heather.wurz 

The Ritual Pantry:  Instagram: @theritualpantry

📩 Send in your Pantry Confessions: sarah@puremedia-solutions.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Leading with our hearts when we don't want to. Showing up with love and compassion when it is so hard to not be in that place of judgment or be in that place of you should and point fingers.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

Mastering coming from your heart and leading with love and seeing everyone in that state is like it's it's a lifelong journey. It's a lot of work. And I know that you and I have both done a ton of work on this, and it's still hard, even because we unless you are literally a guru or a master, and even then, you it's very easy to fall into judgment of others, like, oh well, I wouldn't do it that way, or you should, and that finger pointing where because how we would do something, we make it wrong when other people don't show up that way. Yep. And what that is really is as we both know, is it's just a reflection on self. Talking about how your opinions, because that's what they are, what do they mean to you? And how do we get out of the funk of needing everyone to do it our way? I think that's a really huge question. And something that came up for us this morning is when we're leading from heart, how do we honor ourselves as well as others?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Yeah, that's a really tough one. It's placing that judgment back on ourselves because that's what we're doing. Ultimately, when we're judging other people, we're seeing it through our eyes, and it's something that we've either done in the past or something that we would have never done, and we don't understand why that person either hasn't learned that lesson or why they're not willing to learn that lesson. Welcome to the ritual pantry. I'm Heather.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

And I'm Steph, and man alive, do we have a lot to talk about? It's been a pretty funny morning. It's been a wild morning. I started off pretty rough, actually. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, I did too. Yeah, it was uh it was a lot. Is it a full moon? Does anyone know if it's a full moon? I should know that. Usually I do. Yeah, usually I do too, but like, I don't know, there's something in the air or the water or yeah, it took me a little bit to get going this morning.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Uh it actually was um it was a slow start for me, which typically isn't my my go-to. Usually I get out of bed and it's like I'm on it. But today was uh a little bit of a slow start.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

Well, did you put that color on to make yourself feel better? I sure did. See, I love that. We talked about that before about you know using your energy guidance system to pick things that make you feel good and can naturally boost your energy. So good job, Bessie. Oh, thanks.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah, uh the pink isn't you've seen I typically don't wear the bright colors, so beige. Hey, hey, hey.

SPEAKER_03 3:32

I can pull off some bright colors, okay? You can. No, you have beautiful colors in your wardrobe, and when you wear them, they're gorgeous, and I notice them every time. But you typically go with like earth tones, like that's your natural, and that's cool. That's what makes you feel good. Because that's what you're supposed to do. So it makes you feel good.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Yeah, absolutely. So put on the pink and got some coffee and life is rolling.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Yeah, I put on earrings that I haven't worn forever, and they're I don't even remember what they are, but they're Kate King. We'll drop that name because she's brilliant. But um, my kids got them for me for like Mother's Day Forever Ago, and I don't even remember what they are, but I know if they come from Kate, they've got some juju in them. So I put those on for my good juju. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Look at us just uh rolling with our with our vibes. Yeah. Yeah, it's sweet. So today. Oh, today. Oh, today. Today, today. So we want to discuss leading with our hearts when we don't want to, showing up with love and compassion when it is so hard to not be in that place of judgment or be in that place of you should and point fingers.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

Mastering coming from your heart and leading with love and seeing everyone in that state is like it's it's a lifelong journey. It's a lot of work. And I know that you and I have both done a ton of work on this, and it's still hard, even because we unless you are literally a guru or a master, and even in then, you it's very easy to fall into judgment of others, like, oh well, I wouldn't do it that way, or you should, and that finger pointing where because how we would do something, we make it wrong when other people don't show up that way. Yep. And what that is really, is as we both know, is it's just a reflection on self. Talking about how your opinions, because that's what they are, what do they mean to you? And how do we get out of the funk of needing everyone to do it our way? I think that's a really huge question. And something that came up for us this morning is when we're leading from heart, how do we honor ourselves as well as others?

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah, that's a really tough one. It's placing that judgment back on ourselves because that's what we're doing. Ultimately, when we're judging other people, we're seeing it through our eyes, and it's something that we've either done in the past or something that we would have never done, and we don't understand why that person either hasn't let learned that lesson or why they're not willing to learn that lesson. Not learn lessons, but we don't understand why they would do those actions or have those judgments or place the those actions at you. Like, what were you thinking? We do it with our kids, we do it with our families. I mean, it's like you're looking at your two-year-old climbing up the outside of a railing on a banister and be like, ah. That's my kids. It was your kids, yeah, 100% it was. But you want to protect those other people when we've gone through those lessons or gone through those things that are so emotionally draining, and you can see the outcome. And not that I'm definitely not saying that, oh, I've been there, I've done that, I know all things. That is not, that is not what I'm saying. But the things that I have gone through, and you can see it clearly when other people are going through it. And you're like, I just want to stop you and protect you. Because at the core of my being, I love people. I tell people I love them all the time. I tell the strangers I love them. It weirds them out. Like my cross shift. I used to tell her I loved her all the time. And she's like, okay, have a great day.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

Yeah, I make a point to tell people I love them. I go out of my way to make a weird. I do. Like, listen, I'm gonna make it weird. I love you.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

But I do. I tell people I love them all the time. And I generally I do. I generally love people. I love their excitement. I love how they show up. I love that every single one of us is different and unique. And I really want to bring those traits forward because I think it's important. I think it's important to have different opinions. I think it's important to have life being viewed in different ways and have people challenge what they're up to or what we're up to. I love having those conversations.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Yeah. And I mean, for me, we live in two very different worlds. And so the the fun thing is, is well, it's fun and challenging, right? Is is that I've got the kiddos, right? So, and that one's always hard. And I work really hard and I don't always hit the mark. Let's be so real. I do not always hit the mark when it comes to leading my kids and my family, because you want a certain outcome. Sometimes you're just like, listen, you little mother fathers, you listen because sometimes you hit that point. But when you're leading with heart, and I so with the four kids, they're all so different that honoring each one of them. So we had a scenario this morning where like Nova wants to go to school. It's time, it's ready to go. Oh, like no, like this morning was like, Amory, get ready. And she's yelling and she's shouting. And I'm like, bruh, just calm down. This is not your battle. We're gonna be on time, everything's gonna be fine, but she needs to drive it. Like it that's that's her thing. She needs that. I don't even know what I want. I don't want to use the word control. That's not what it feels like. So in these moments, leading them when they're both yelling back and forth at each other, like one doesn't want to be responsible for his time because apparently he doesn't think he should have to be. And the other one's like, let's go. And Jasper's just there playing hockey and lacrosse in a hockey helmet, doing his thing. And so leading them, those three, to get out the door at the same time, it has to come from heart, and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes just like get the fart out the door, man. Get out. But you know, this morning I raided in and I was like, man, listen, you you don't need to drive this. You could get out of bed, you got upstairs at 7.58. Like exactly, because I looked at the clock and was like, are you gonna have breakfast or what? And I mean, Amory was up, but he was dicking around doing Amory stuff. But we all got out, and I was like, listen, man, you gotta not be so janky in the morning. Like, do what do you want your whole day to be like this?

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Because that's a thing. So, but then that comes back to judgment where that works for him. That's his personality, yeah. That's his personality, that's how he gets going, that's how he gets in the groove. So, what about that is wrong? He was still out the door on time. Yes, there was a little bit of coaxing and a little bit of like lighting fires under some butts. But how do you lead people and not place that judgment?

SPEAKER_03 11:49

That's the question we're talking about, because that literally comes back to how do you honor the other people and yourself at the same time as being the leader. So in that moment, yeah, it stayed pretty calm until Nova to dislike Simba. But she was cranked up this morning. But that affects everyone else, right? So being the leader in that moment is, I mean, like from my perspective, I handled it well. Like there was no screaming and yelling in the car. But they obviously have a different perspective, which I'm not gonna ask them right now. They're also children.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

They're also children, and they need that leadership. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

So so honoring them, which I think I did a pretty decent job of, and and that that leadership with the kids. So that that's one thing. But the judgment piece, that's a tough one. Because I one I'm guilty.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

But it's that's all of us. I mean, there's days where you're like, Heather, where were you thinking? What were you doing? What were you doing in that moment, right? It's just because it's not our way doesn't mean it's wrong. Speak for yourself. Just kidding. No, you're right. Yeah, yeah. It's it's true. I mean, if you take you and me, for example, we have very different approaches. I like that linear approach, and you like the go with the flow approach. Going with the flow? We had this discussion this morning.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Going with the flow doesn't work for me. That's true. That's why you hate working with me.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

No, I love working with you, but it frustrates me sometimes. And I have to kind of rein that in to be like, okay, just because it's not done the way that I want it to be done doesn't mean that it's wrong. It's a different approach. So it comes to compromise, not always easy, and looking at that other person, but still honoring what I need. And how do we do this? Well, when you and I work together, we have I show up and I have all of our recipes. Like Steph and I used to, so prime example, we used to do Christmas boxes together. We had a hundred pieces in there. What about that? It was a lot. Did a whole bunch of different cookies, um, presented it beautifully, and one box, and you had all your Christmas baking done for the year. And it was all lots of love, lots of heart went into it. However, stuff would show up and she'd be like, all right, I guess we're yeah, we have these ingredients, let's make these cookies. Where me, I showed up and I had all our recipes printed out, what we were doing, how many we were making.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

That when we switched to that system worked so well.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

But it was a matter of honoring what I needed, but also honoring what you needed. And guiding me. Well, it wasn't even a matter of guiding you. It was like, hey, this is what I need. So, and you could do whatever you wanted to in that moment where I had a very linear approach, and you're like, Yeah, sure, whip shortcut sounds great to me today. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

Yeah, but we had a system, right? So you did lead me. And you and that that's a really great example because you did come with those things, and it worked extremely well. I remember this because we were so efficient that what we made a boatload of cookies in a short amount of it was long days. It was long days. It was long days, but but that system that you created for us actually really worked very well. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Don't discount that. I'm not going to discount it. Yeah. Honor it. So for me, I also work in a corporate environment. So I don't always know the people on that level. Like, you're my best friend. I've worked with you in the past. We well, not work, but we went to school together, we've done projects together, we've led cooking classes together. So I know you. I know you at the heart of who you are at this at your soul level. There's people I work with that I don't. Like, for instance, I was working with somebody this week who was on the other shift and I didn't know anything about him. And he had a very different approach to how I would do things. So, in order for me to honor myself and to honor him, it took a little bit to get in that groove. But I, with the experience that I've had over the years and understanding, it comes back to understanding who I am and how I can show up. And that is the key. Knowing who I am helps me navigate how other people show up. Because not everybody wants to deep dive into themselves. Not everybody knows who they are, and that's okay. We're never gonna have that. It's a perfect world to be like, yeah, everybody knows exactly who they are and what makes them tick, and I'm not gonna say anything.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

My mouth stays shut here.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Okay, Steph's mouth. There we go. But not everyone takes that approach to life where it's placing the blame the blame on other people. Being the victim. This always happens to me. Okay, why does it always happen to you? Is it the way you're thinking about it? Are you actually the victim? Is someone actually out to get you? Chances are no. Humans by nature are very selfish humans, like we're very selfish. We rarely think about other people and how they're showing up or how our actions are going to affect other people.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

Yeah, it's a very self-centric um society, right? And and in some aspects, that's a really good thing, and in some aspects it's not. So that um awareness of pleasing versus serving, that I think is a really important thing. And you sort of touched on it, and I'd like you to elaborate, and I'm I'm happy to elaborate on it also, because when we do things for others, we are serving, right? So coming from that heart center, not for me, but for you also, and leading that way, like you did with the cookies, it wasn't selfish. It was this is truly going to lead us to the best outcome. And you didn't not let me do my thing.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

But it would have been a very different approach. And if I came in and said, absolutely stuff, no, it we're doing this many dozen of this cookie, and that's it, you can't go outside your bounds, like no, you can't do what you want to do. This is our process. And sometimes that need also needs to be done, right? It does. It's not always a compromise.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

But the the point I'm trying to make is that if if I had if you had come in with something that I didn't agree with and I went along with it anyway, without saying something, I would be pleasing you. And out of that's my energy, right? It's a pleasing energy, which makes me the victim of my own self. You haven't done anything to me. Heather's being bossy, she's telling me what to do, right? That's where that mindset comes in. Exactly. And then life is happening to me. And oh, there's so much in here. This is loaded. But pleasing leads to resentment, right? That's it's every single time you cannot go in to please someone else without having resentment afterwards because you are not doing it from a heart center. You are doing it to please someone outside of yourself. So that does not work. So when you are the heart-led leader and you actually are in alignment, it's it's okay to hear others and where they're at, and it's okay to explain why, and they're probably gonna have some feedback. And you pardon me you can s again, I'm just going back to you, you can still honor yourself and others when it's coming from service, not trying to please. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 20:55

It does. But I think those two phrases are so tightly uh combined that we often collapse them into one.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Absolutely. It's hard to discern the difference, right? Um they are so close and it's so easy to fall into the the victim mindset, as you were saying, in terms of like, oh well, I have to do this, I have to do this, because someone else said so. And I think that this goes into so many areas of your life, so many that you don't even realize it because it's it's literally a default pattern in everybody.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Well, if we look at our family, so outside of work, outside of friendships, if we go to our parents and our siblings no matter what's happening in my world, no matter how much work I've done, Those, I'm gonna call them triggers, are so evident because it has been programmed in us since we were little on how to react to our family because we were expecting that outcome instead of coming from heart. We're expecting, oh yeah, they're gonna show up and they're gonna do it this way.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

And my brother contacted me last week and he was so freaking excited about a job interview. And uh it's at sight. So I was like, yeah, bro, he's describing it to me. And I'm like, yeah, this is like brilliant. And then he says to me, Well, I don't know. Even if they offer it to me, I don't think I'll take it. And I'm like, back the bus up. Like, why? And he gives this laundry list of reasons that are all valid. So I I just like worked on pumping him up about this because this would be like so amazing, and he would be so good at it. Yeah, he'd be a great teacher. So he went for the interview yesterday, and he was so jazzed about it. Like, so jazzed. And it just makes me think about why can't we be happy for other people when something wicked is happening? Oh, I love pumping people up. Like, right? It's just like it feels so good. And I we talked for like an hour while he sat in his driveway, and I was just like, you're gonna get it. This is so great. Everything was amazing, and he just feels so good about it, as opposed to coming from. I mean, I guess that's a judgment, that's a positive judgment. It's still but it's a it's a celebration instead of coming from the point, the default pattern of oh, well, like, yeah, you're right, those are very valid points.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yeah, you shouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Yeah, like, oh, well, it's a really far drive, or bringing up all the negative things that I'm sure I okay, no, like I know he's had thought about because that's the default is to to think about bad stuff, measure the gap of negative instead of measuring the gap with positivity. So it was just really cool because it did make me think, like about uh hiccup, sorry, the default pattern of pointing out what's wrong. So how do you switch into always, no matter what, looking at life, that everything happens for a reason and a purpose and it serves me?

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Well, it's not necessarily everything happens for a reason, but I'm a firm believer that the way that we show up in life, it happens to us. Right? We can take the same situation, carry on, and look at it from two different lenses.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

I have two lenses on that. Is to you, for you. So life happening to you keeps you firmly in the seat of the victim. If we change our thought patterns, and it's barking hard, really hard to switch into the this is happening for me because everything shows you something, even in the shittiest situations. Oh, like there is something positive to find. And that's this is a tough one, and it's a rabbit hole. But bad things happen to good people, and you you don't have to just sit there. You have a choice. Did it happen to you or did it happen for you?

SPEAKER_01 26:18

So, a prime example of that is when I was laid off in 2015, where 30% of the company got let go. And that was I had to switch my mind from this happened to me, I wasn't this, I didn't do this. I took that opportunity to really understand myself because I defined myself by the stuff that I had. I had the house, I had the car, I had all the things, I was I was doing three to four trips a year, and all of a sudden all of that was taken away. And I chose to look at it as the best thing that ever happened to me. It took a lot to get through that. But it was, it was the best thing that ever happened to me because I didn't know who I was without that stuff, I was lost. So I took that opportunity to really understand who I was at the core of my being and what made me happy. And it turns out it wasn't the stuff that made me happy. What makes me happy is showing up and loving people, showing up and supporting people when they need it, showing up and having these conversations that allow people to see it from a different lens. And I wouldn't be here without that event.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

Yeah, that's true. And you went through some huge changes there. Huge. I had to.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

The default wasn't working, the default needed to change. And it was the hardest thing that I've ever done. And would go through it 10 times over if that means I came back to this spot of understanding who I am, loving myself, knowing what I'm capable of, pushing myself to the limits. So when I was talking to mom yesterday, she was just leaving the bank and she's like, I love spending money at the bank. And I'm like, yep.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

I don't think I have the same sentiment.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Who does? Who loves paying bills? Nobody loves paying bills. However, five years ago, when I couldn't pay bills and it was a struggle, and every time I saw some bill come in, I would have a panic attack. I'm not in that place. I'm very thankful that I have an income. I have money that I can pay those bills. So that's the shift. Yeah. Instead of seeing it and having a panic attack about it, it's like I'm so grateful that I can do this. Because five years ago, that wasn't the case.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

Yeah, and you're really hitting it. And I I know that we've talked about this before, that this does go back to how do you actually shift in those those moments when that bill does come, and you're looking at what all those numbers actually even mean. Into like, oh my gosh, I'm actually so grateful that I have heat and water and all these things that I can pay for. And and it's it's so hard. And the the default is is hard, but the default keeps us stuck very, very even five years ago.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Somehow I managed to pay all my bills every day. You did every time it just it worked out.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

Do you know what's so fun? I've been telling myself recently that like it just rains money. It just rains money for me, and it's been really fun because sometimes literally money just like falls off the counter or out of the sky. I don't know, it's just on my floor, and I'm like, yeah, money's raining for me. And I went into like my PayPal account because I have like an affiliate link, and I don't ever look at it. I just was like, I have a PayPal account. There's 411 bucks in there, man. I was like, making it rain, and then I like went into a different account because, like, you know, I'm doing this other business, and I didn't realize I was getting paid. Like, I legitimately had no idea. I'm getting paid. See? And I'm like, it is random money. I love money.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

See? It is all right. That brings us to our pantry confessions. What time is it? It's our pantry confessions time. No, that's the wrong answer. It's time for lunch.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Let's try again. What time is it? It's time for pantry confessions.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Wrong answer. All right.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Time for lunch in the pantry. All right. My version of self-care is avoiding everyone and calling it boundaries. Oh, I've done that. I cancel plans, ignore texts, and convince myself I'm protecting my energy when really I don't have the capacity to explain how tired I am. Sometimes it feels nourishing, other times it feels lonely. And I'm not always sure which one I'm choosing. I say I'm protecting my energy, but I think I'm just hiding. I don't know how to ask for connections without feeling drained.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

This is loaded. That is a loaded one. Yeah, super loaded. There's a lot of ways. Well, not a lot. There's a few ways that I personally look at this. Because it is, you know, that word boundaries gets thrown all over the joint. Um, it's actually kind of a word that uh I think gets used too much personally. It's kind of like the word bullying. I'm not gonna go down that rabbit hole, but seriously, it's not what it is. Uh you being a dick to everyone else is not a boundary. That's just my thoughts on it. This is a great question for today. Because they do not have to conform to your fucking feelings. I'm sorry, I'm swearing on today's episode. It's out there. I have strong feelings about boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Where is it a boundary or is it avoidance? It's avoidance. So what is a boundary?

SPEAKER_02 32:50

Bullshit? No.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

Wrong answer. Uh oh, okay. See, so so for me, I I'm just, yeah, again, I'm gonna call it something different. It's standards. Okay, change your words because boundaries are things that we put up around us and we tell people don't touch it. Don't touch it, and they don't even know it's there. So, how are they supposed to avoid something to keep your ass happy when you aren't dealing with it? They're not. So, yeah, stay home if that's the case. Deal with your shit. Uh, don't put boundaries up and expect people to see them. They're invisible. Nobody cares. That's the truth. Nobody cares. Deal with your shit. You can't put up a boundary and expect people not to touch it or know it's there or walk right through it if you haven't dealt with it. It's not anyone else's job to deal with it. So, yeah, you could totally stay home. But while you're there, sitting in your victim couch, you should probably work on your triggers and get to the bottom of why that bugs you.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

So, how do we change your phrasing?

SPEAKER_01 34:11

To be kind? To come from heart. Because boundaries are a real thing. And it's the way that we have to communicate it out. That's my opinion. Because there's some things that we just can't tolerate. Like someone give me an example. Um out on a date, and a man is um not being very kind and is threatening. What's your standard? Exactly. So to me, standards and boundaries are very similar. But as you said, people don't have we don't tell people our boundaries. Like it's it's implied that yeah, we don't do this to other people. Other people don't do this to me, except for we don't we fail to have those conversations with them. So if someone's crossing that line where you're not comfortable, because our boundaries are there to protect ourselves, protect our hearts, is essentially what boundaries are. So it's having that capability of having those conversations led from heart that lead to the other person understanding where you're at. Hey, you know what? I'm going through some stuff. I'm just not up for, I'm just not up for going for coffee, I'm exhausted. It opens the door for another conversation. Agreed.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

I don't disagree with that because communication is key, and that's what it does come down to. So I get what you're saying. But the whole staying at home part.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

But sometimes that's just what you need. Like I got home from work yesterday. I was tired, I was ready for bed. 6 30, I was ready for bed. But that's not a boundary. It's not a boundary. But if someone would have said, hey, you're gonna come out and go to this event tonight, I probably would have declined. And said, you know what? And had an explanation instead of ignoring that text.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

I don't know. I feel like I feel like I get it. I see, clearly I'm triggered by the word boundary. I'll go work on my shit. So I guess where I guess the perspective I'm coming from is that if you put up a boundary, you don't you can't expect other people to respect your boundaries. If they don't know what they're if they don't know what it is. So coming from the the heart part, you have to be in the seat of the observer. So if you had said to me, if I had texted you about, you know, said event and you had said, man, I'm just not feeling it, then that's coming from the the seat of the observer saying, oh, hey man, are you okay? But this doesn't feel like a boundary for me. I feel like we're leaving this hanging, but like there's two different there's there's a few different approaches here.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

All right. Well, I think this might be a good topic to talk about boundaries and what boundaries mean to other people.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

Send this, I want to know. This, like because clearly this is heated for me. So send in. What what is it? A boundary. You don't even have to put your name on the things, okay? Anonymous, or put your name, I don't care. Uh what does it mean to you? We want to be able to have these conversations and and understand different perspectives. That's kind of the point of this. So please, please, please, please send your stuff. Could be just where we're at today, too. Me, the moon, the moon cycle. On that note, good Lord, love a duck. Love you.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

And I love you.