#0014 CLARE GARRAD - AN ABSTRACT JOURNEY TO FULFILMENT!

Welcome to the Creative Nowhere Land podcast.

In this episode, we're joined by Abstract Artist, Clare Garrad.

Abstract art is one of the most popular forms of art.  But also, arguably, one of the most contentious. With the common misconception that you're just slapping paint on a canvas.  It's easy. It doesn't mean anything or that anybody could do it. Well, Clare gives us an insight into what it actually involves, and for her at least, it's so much more. 

Clare discusses her intuitive creative process with music and emotions always at the heart of her work, influencing the colour palette, the mood, and the composition of a piece.  Often bold and immersive, Clare explores the synesthetic connection between music she loves and visual expression.  Using them to translate some of life's highs and lows into her art.

We also discuss Clare's journey to get to where she is now—spending ten years drifting through various non-creative jobs, feeling somewhat lost and unfulfilled.  Until a life-changing moment forced Clare to rethink and reassess everything she was doing.   

Now established as a full-time artist with a solo show coming up, we also discuss some more universal things like overcoming imposter syndrome, building resilience, balancing motherhood with creativity, the importance of community and mentorship, and so much more.  Clare's passion for her work, and also the power of connection, is infectious. So we hope you enjoy it too.

Check out all of the links below to Clare's work and sit back and let Clare tell you why abstract art, for her at least, is a whole lot more than just slapping paint on a canvas.

CLARE GARRAD INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/claregarradart/

CLARE GARRAD ARTWORK SALES: https://cosimo.art/artist/clare-garrad/4990

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:01

Hello everyone and welcome to the Creative Noirland podcast. On this episode, we're joined by abstract artist Claire Garrard. Now, abstract art is possibly one of the most popular forms of artwork, but also arguably one of the most contentious, with a common misconception that you're just slapping some paint on a canvas, it's easy, it doesn't mean anything, or that anybody can do it. Well, in this episode, claire gives us an insight into what it actually involves, and, for her at least, it's so much more. Claire discusses her intuitive creative process, with music and emotions always at the heart of her work, influencing the colour palette, the mood and the composition of the piece, often bold and immersive. Claire explores the synesthetic connection between music she loves and visual expression, using them to translate some of life's highs and lows into her art.

Speaker 1 1:00

It's never a straight road in these things, though, and we also discuss Claire's journey to get to where she is now, spending 10 years drifting through various non-creative jobs, feeling somewhat lost and unfulfilled, until a life-changing moment forced Claire to rethink and reassess everything she was doing, now established as a full-time artist with a solo show coming up. We also discuss some of the more universal things, like overcoming imposter syndrome, building resilience, balancing motherhood with creativity, the importance of community and mentorship and so much more. Claire's passion for her work, and also the power of connection, is infectious. So sit back, enjoy and let Claire tell you why abstract art, for her at least, is a whole lot more than just slap and paint on a canvas. Let's get into it, claire, matt, shall we talk abstract art? Yes, let's. Okay, I'm going to go in a little bit deep. Do you believe abstract art needs an explanation?

Speaker 2 2:21

wow, that is quite um intense for the viewer's question. This is all just me, so personally I don't think it does, because it's how the viewer perceives it. However, I think it gives an extra layer of understanding. I think it adds, it gives an extra layer of understanding and almost when you have the meaning behind it from the artist, I think it can take on a whole new perspective. So that's not really answered your question, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 2:55

No, but I think that's what we're trying to get into, isn't it? Because abstract art is one of those. It's actually probably one of the most popular forms of artwork to people to have in their homes, but it also please don't take this derogatory it's probably the one that people go. Well, I could have done that.

Speaker 2 3:10

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 3:11

You know and I'm sure you get that?

Speaker 2 3:13

Yeah, you do hear that.

Speaker 1 3:16

How does that make you feel as an abstract artist? Do you feel like that belittles what you do in a little bit, or do you not let that affect you?

Speaker 2 3:25

It used to, but it doesn't so much now because I've been doing it long enough to have built up a resilience. And also, from my point of view, I know and understand how much goes into a piece of work. And it's not just that physical piece of work, it's the hours and hours of you might have done explorations, you might have done experiments, but it's not just that, it's the inspiration that you've absorbed over the years, it's everything that you've ever done basically goes into a piece of art. So it's not just physically that paint on the canvas, it's all the experience, knowledge, everything that's that's gone into that and part of you we are a result of the inputs that we've received, right yes, so okay, you're an abstract artist now, but you didn't begin like that, did you?

Speaker 1 4:22

you studied fashion design at university yes, so there's before.

Speaker 2 4:28

That, even because of knowing that I was going to sit down with you, has made me reflect quite a lot on things. So I never really knew what I wanted to do. So when I, after I did my air levels, which were not creative at all I went to university to do business studies, which was a complete, you know, it all went tits up and I left.

Speaker 2 4:52

I hadn't even done a year, hated it, it wasn't your thing it wasn't my thing, but I think there's a sort of a pathway that people are expected to do, aren't they? They which doesn't? You know, the whole academic model which could be a whole other podcast doesn't fit every single child student. Do your GCSE, then you do your A-levels, then you go to university, then you get a job, and I don't think that was meant to happen for me and it didn't happen. So I left university, came back home, had an office job and then I'd started making my own clothes for clubbing, since the 90s.

Speaker 1 5:32

I am a child of the 90s.

Speaker 2 5:34

Loved that, loved meeting people, loved going out and thought what am I going to do? What am I going to do with my life? I don't even know how it came about. I was like I'm going to do what am I going to do with my life? I don't even know how it came about.

Speaker 2 5:45

I was like I'm going to do fashion design okay but to get onto that course, because I hadn't done any creative a levels, I had to do a art foundation, which was just a year, but I absolutely loved it, so I did photography, fine art, textiles and graphic design you dip your toe into it, yeah and you do art history as well.

Speaker 2 6:10

So in my head I was thinking, right, just need to get this course done because I just need it to get onto the BA honours course. So, unexpectedly, absolutely loved the fine arts. You would get assessed in each module and in the fine art I got a distinction which, like everybody, was falling about, like what the hell do you remember what he did?

Speaker 2 6:34

yes, so it wasn't quite abstract. So it was like a repetitive pattern of leaves. It started off as leaves and then I'd blown them up, really gone into the detail so it wasn't you know. You didn't look at it and think it was a leaf, so it was quite abstract. But then I made these huge I can't remember what, where we got them, but these massive rolls of paper as big as this wall, oh wow, and painted those in this repetitive pattern, had paint dripping down it. I've done all these explorations and to get to that point and um, but really enjoyed it. So, yeah, went through that, finished that course, then got onto the degree course, which was three years but you didn't, which was the fashion design degree.

Speaker 1 7:23

So you didn't take that passion for the fine art. I know you said you had a love of designing clothes when you're going out clubbing, but just thinking back to another artist, ava, who was actually in the fashion industry as well- which I listened to, and our.

Speaker 2 7:40

It was so interesting listening to her because a lot of her story resonated with me.

Speaker 1 7:46

So did you choose fashion? Because Ava chose fashion? Because it seemed like the sort of safer option. Was that in mind?

Speaker 2 7:52

It was a bit because in my head I'd decided I was going to do fashion design, then I was going to move to London and I was going to get a job there. Because you can just get a job.

Speaker 2 8:02

Yeah, because you know it was the early 2000s yeah yeah, I couldn't bear to stay here no offense, sutton Caulfield, because I'm back here but I was desperate to get out of the town and into a big city to see what might happen. So I guess this was maybe um a gateway to do that how did you find the fashion design degree?

Speaker 1 8:28

did you find you excelled at it? Did you want for the fine art in any way or did you take some of those skills? Because I mean, I can hear in the project you did for the foundation almost like the repetitive pattern.

Speaker 2 8:38

I mean that's textile design, yeah, well, no, the fine art thing that was left then because it was quite intense, this course which is listening to ava. I was like, oh my god, that's so true. Um, and it was. You know, you had to do a dissertation in the last year and you had to do a collection. So I had a sewing machine and I made my own clothes for me, but I'd never learned pattern cutting and what an art that is. You know, it's really hard and we were making our own patterns to make garments. But there was a lot involved in it and there was a lot of fashion illustration, which I quite enjoyed. I mean, I don't draw so much now, but when I do dip into drawing I think I've always enjoyed that. But there was not the fine art side of things.

Speaker 1 9:36

No, and like you say, these fashion design courses, they tended to be quite intense.

Speaker 2 9:41

All of my group of friends. We'd all agreed we were going to move to London and they, one by one, didn't they all fell by the wayside, and I was the only one that did it what gave you the bravery, the strength to go right.

Speaker 1 9:57

No, I'm going to do this. I'm going to move to london well, I was a bit again.

Speaker 2 10:03

I don't really know what I'm going to do. I'm a bit drifting. I'd split up with the previous boyfriend and I had just got together with Marcel, who I'm now married to, and I was like I really want to go, but I've just started this relationship, which feels very meaningful. But I was a bit caught now and I remember my mum and I remember vividly she was ironing. I was like Mum, what am I going to do? I said I was going to go to London. Now no one's coming. And she just went well, you know, you've just got to go, haven't you? And I think I needed that. And maybe if I hadn't have had her say that, because it would have been easy for her to say, oh, don't go get a job around here you know it'd be fun, but she was like no, you, you need to go, don't you?

Speaker 2 10:49

and marcel was also very much like like you, you've got to do it. If you don't do it, I think you'll massively regret it?

Speaker 1 10:57

did marcel stay here or did he come with you?

Speaker 2 10:59

so he stayed here for about a year or so, and then he moved to London.

Speaker 1 11:07

Ah well.

Speaker 2 11:09

I know.

Speaker 1 11:09

That's a big step for both of you, yeah.

Speaker 2 11:11

So I set about trying to find somewhere to live, which was interesting. We saw some real howlers a ridiculous many and then I found a room in a flat share in Tulshill, which is about a mile from Brixton, and uh, got a good vibe from that. So that was it right. I'm gonna, I'm gonna move. I didn't have a job yeah, nothing. So I moved to London that's quite brave sign. Sign on.

Speaker 1 11:42

Okay.

Speaker 2 11:43

Yeah Well, a girl's got to live you know, yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 11:47

And then there was a pub in Herne Hill, which is also very close to Tulshill, and my parents had come to sort of settle me in and they said we'll go for lunch here. Anyway, we went in there and it was absolute carnage. It was a shit show in this place. So I basically just walked up to the guy that was in charge and said I think you're really struggling, aren't you? Do you need some more staff because I need a job? And he was like oh shit, okay, so he gave me a job, so I worked there for a while. That was interesting because there were two guys that owned it and one of them, his wife, was a producer for big brother oh, okay, endemol yeah, so, and this is when big brother was.

Speaker 2 12:30

It was big, huge, yeah. So that was an unusual and interesting job. The chef used to be a private chef for tina turner and going from living in this little town and everybody knowing each other and being sort of thrust into the deep end which I'd done to myself, but it really pushed me- Opened your eyes to the world, oh massively, hugely. You know Brixton 2005, it's not for the faint-hearted.

Speaker 1 12:57

Yeah, now it's all Blooming Farmers. It's very gentrified now. It wasn't then no, no, no, not at all.

Speaker 2 13:02

You'd pop out the tube and by the time you got to your best stop, you've been offered three or four different types of drugs as the kfc. So that was that, and then I just joined loads of what's the when you're trying to find a job agencies okay, yeah joined.

Speaker 1 13:18

Loads of agencies said just send me for interviews for anything for anything, to do it in fashion oh, you see, you were still trying to do it in fashion, but it was not the creative side.

Speaker 2 13:32

So I wasn't getting anywhere, I wasn't getting any interviews, I wasn't getting seen and it was really frustrating. Wrong, we were working in this pub forever and then they said right, we've got you an interview with a supplier in baker street, so can you get there? Yeah, yes, of course I'll get there. So I'll go for this interview and it goes really well, but I still don't really know what the job is. It's not anything I've really heard of, but it's working in like jewelry. So I was like, okay, yeah, did my sweet talking, whatever, and then on the bus, because I couldn't even afford the tube on the bus on the way home, my family would say oh yeah, you've got the job. Cool, yeah, but still didn't really know what the job was.

Speaker 2 14:14

But I thought, oh, I've just got to do it.

Speaker 1 14:17

Job's a job in London. Job's a job yeah.

Speaker 2 14:20

So it was merchandising, but not in a creative way. So basically, this company was a supplier to Marks and Spencers and Next Right and a couple of other accounts. They were their main accounts and they would supply jewelry, gifts, textiles, scarves, gloves, hats and things and as a merchandiser you are in charge of making sure that the designs get to the factory. They make the samples. The samples then get bought by Marks and Spencers.

Speaker 1 14:52

So it's very much logistical rather than creative.

Speaker 2 14:55

It's total admin, yeah, and then you've got to make sure that they're shipped in time for the launch, and then you're looking at what's selling the best. You feed that back to the designers, because we were in a small team couple of designers, me and another merchandiser, and then the head like a buyer. So we would say, well, this particular style is selling well, so they would then design a new collection based around that. So it's not creative, not even for the designers and where were you creatively?

Speaker 1 15:25

was this just taking up all of your time so you weren't even thinking creatively?

Speaker 2 15:28

I've got to have that meeting with that person about the supplier doing that so all of a sudden I was I'd gone from working in a pub and then I was going to the head office of marks and spencers to meet the head of merchandising to talk about can we get these 2 000 pairs of earrings in on time? And I suppose that was the start of me being swept up in completely the wrong career and that lasted like 10 years, oh good 10 years, and then we'll get on to the next bit, which is more years.

Speaker 1 15:59

Yeah but I think it's interesting to develop this story so people understand. It's not like oh, I came out of uni, I was an artist and that's how it was. We've all sort of dipped and weaved around to try and find where we want to go.

Speaker 1 16:11

I mean, you don't sound very infused about that 10 years of doing and that's not why I've got you on. So I guess, was there a pivotal moment when you were doing all this 10 years of logistics and not being very creative? Presumably what was the moment that made you go? I don't want to do this anymore. I want to find that creativity.

Speaker 2 16:32

Well, it came it came much, much later, and also in within those 10 years, marcel and I went traveling for 10 months, which was I. I didn't realize until not that long ago that that hugely influenced me creatively. So we did a little bit of America and Canada because we had friends in Canada, but then we did a long stretch in New Zealand, Australia, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Malaysia and a little bit of Singapore Just me and him before we had kids, which culturally I'd never been out of Europe.

Speaker 1 17:16

Oh, it's a big eye-opener.

Speaker 2 17:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1 17:18

Especially Southeast Asia, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 17:21

So all these things, although you don't realise it, oh yeah. And so all these things, although you don't realize it, are adding to layer upon layer of inspiration that you're absorbing all the time.

Speaker 1 17:33

It's that inputs we were talking about, isn't it you? Get more and more inputs and you.

Speaker 2 17:36

It really does change your output. So then, after that I then we moved back to london and I got job which was slightly more creative for a fairly mid to high-end jewellery company. It was hugely stressful. I used to run the QVC account.

Speaker 1 17:55

QVC for anyone who doesn't know what QVC is is a shopping channel based in the UK.

Speaker 2 18:02

So that was a big account, but it was a very stressful job. And then I got pregnant with my daughter, so we stayed in London for a bit longer, but then decided to move here.

Speaker 1 18:12

What was the major catalyst though? Just raising. Didn't want to raise a family in London.

Speaker 2 18:17

We basically couldn't afford. I didn't want to go back to that job. It was really having a detrimental effect on my mental health massively. It's. Even when I think about that time it makes me feel jittery and horrible. It was awful. It was not a nice, it was a toxic environment and I didn't want to go back to that. And so we couldn't afford to pay for nursery fees. We had a lovely flat but there was no garden and we have all our families here, so we decided to move was that daunting after or did that feel?

Speaker 1 18:54

I really struggled, I imagine after having the bravery and courage to go to london and get out of the small town mentality you've discussed and then sort of, you've done it, but coming back do you almost feel a bit like, uh, it defeated me yeah, kind of, and it, and at the time I felt like it was a step backwards, and also the whole having children is really messes with your identity.

Speaker 2 19:21

I think it's strict to begin with. It strips away your identity, but for me it did. I'm don't want to speak for anybody else and then also moving back here, and I'd literally look out the window and be like, where is all the people, where's the culture, where's the vibrancy? And, of course, you, you can find that again. You've just got to seek out a little bit more. It's not on your doorstep. It's not on your doorstep like it is.

Speaker 1 19:45

It's not on every street corner. Yeah, like it is.

Speaker 2 19:47

I mean in London. I used to go before kids, so I'd get the train to London Bridge, go through Borough Market, go to buy all the food for dinner, pop out by the river, walk along to the Tate Modern and there used to be a Mark Rothko room that was just full of Mark Rothko paintings. Oh my god, it's the most immersive. I love his work anyway, and I'd just go on my own and I'd sit there and just literally let it take over you. You could just forget everything and just stare at those paintings and the way they lit them and you know it was so beautiful what are you feeling at that time?

Speaker 1 20:29

because obviously, mark rothko is renowned for having that powerful effect. People sometimes sit in front of his painting and cry. And do you remember what you're feeling when you're looking at these rothko paintings?

Speaker 2 20:40

I think that I was possibly thinking I'm not doing what I'm meant to be doing, I'm failing myself somehow. But I can't get out of this now because I was on a really you know, I was being paid really well. It was a stressful job. I was going to Milan. We were traveling with work which is way more glamorous than it sounds. It's glamorous at all but there was certain like kudos with working for this particular brand. But I wasn't work-wise, I wasn't fulfilled, and I think I used to go there so much because I needed Link to remind me, and it took a really long time even from that point to get where I am now.

Speaker 1 21:27

How long ago is that then? So my daughter's 11, and it was before her, oh wow, yeah, but when you're in it, you're living that sort of life in London. That is the, it's the churn, it's the hamster wheel, isn't it? You know, you, you want to get out, you, you're on the wheel. If you stop, it's very difficult.

Speaker 2 21:46

There's no way then that I could have stopped working a job, a safe, secure, contracted, employed job. I couldn't have done that then because we had flat. We wanted to do this, we wanted to do that and somehow, when you're on that wheel, you don't think for yourself. You're on that wheel, you don't think for yourself. Your time's not your own got to be there at this time. You can't leave till that time. Even outside of work, you're doing work.

Speaker 1 22:12

It was, yeah, it was hard so how do we get from there? Moving back to the midlands? You know you're craving culture. Can't go to your Rothko room anymore, not well, not easily so how do we get from there to here?

Speaker 2 22:28

so then I had my son, and I then just needed a job. Any job again seemed to be back to that point. I just wanted part-time, something easy, and no one would even interview me, so I ended up working for my brother, which ended up being for quite a long time.

Speaker 1 22:51

I mean, that's just the nature of wanting to be secure, isn't it? You're raising a young family.

Speaker 2 22:56

Yeah, art's not the most. No, when they're young like that, there's only two years between mine. You are like in the trenches. It's really hard work and if for anybody who's being creative and they've got very young children, I absolutely salute you, because to carve out any sort of time for yourself is very, is very difficult, which is why probably they were that bit older when I did finally say right, that's it.

Speaker 1 23:25

Okay. Is there a moment, then, where you go? Right, this was the moment where I go. No, I don't want to work for my brother anymore. I'm going to stop that and I'm going to see if I can make this dream of being an artist.

Life, Grief, & Creative Resurgence

Speaker 2 23:39

I did start painting. What made you do that Well? At this time as well, my dad was had become ill, so there was quite a long descent into dementia. So I was working part-time. The kids were really quite young and as a family we were trying to manage that situation. But I did start painting then again, not very often, here and there, because I think that it provided a necessary escape for me From everything, from everything.

Speaker 1 24:18

Mention family life bills.

Speaker 2 24:20

Yeah.

Speaker 1 24:21

What were you painting?

Speaker 2 24:23

So I'd get canvases from, like, charity shops that were cheap because I didn't have loads of money at the time, which is quite a good tip actually if you're just starting and you just don't want to worry about. Oh, this canvas cost 25 quid. Literally. Just go to a charity shop, pick up anything, put a couple of coats of white on it and then go from there. So it was abstract. It was just me not even thinking too much, and just and always with music. So that's my biggest obsession. That was how I'd lose myself, because it was very difficult with dad. It was very difficult with dad. And then I think you're saying where was that point? When he died? Although it was not unexpected and we knew it was coming, it absolutely devastated me, absolutely floored me. I was not ready, I didn't know how to cope, and he died in the July of 2019 and I was 40 six weeks later.

Speaker 2 25:34

It was quite seismic those momentous moments in life, yeah, which was difficult, but I continued in that job still after because we went into lockdown. And then obviously your homeschooling children. That's really stressful. There was no time for art or creativity at that point, so I was still working and trying to do the kids. But it got to the point because my dad was an artist ah, okay, so we've missed this big chunk.

Speaker 2 26:09

Yeah, this is why we have to have these conversations there so I can get to the root we're meandering around it, but we're getting there yeah, so well, he was, and I say that with pride because he wasn't a professional and I'm doing the quotes yeah he wasn't a professional artist, but it was his passion, as was music, and that's where me and him had an absolute connection.

Speaker 2 26:34

I mean, at like 17, me and him were going to see jazz at ronnie scott's in birmingham. We were going to like the town hall to see fat Chopped Big Band. I mean, I was a complete anomaly in my friendship group because I was like, oh yeah, well, me and dad are going to see this saxophonist this weekend, or a big band, or he loved it. So that was our shared passion.

Speaker 1 26:57

What sort of stuff, artistically, did he create?

Speaker 2 27:00

So he does landscapes. He did landscapes and he worked in oils, but he later worked in watercolour. So when we went on holiday we couldn't afford to go abroad or anything go to like Cornwall, devon, and he would take photographs while he was there and then paint them when he got home and he retired early. So when I was doing my degree he was at home. We used to spend a lot of time together because I lived at home and then I after then lived with my boyfriend, but I was always around and so at the old dining table he'd be like doing his painting one side and I'd be doing my fashion illustration the other side, with a bit of miles davis on. Yeah, so, um, yeah, I'll show you some stuff yeah, I'd love to see him.

Speaker 1 27:53

Perhaps we could include some show notes.

Speaker 2 27:55

That it's completely different to what I do. I'm in awe of what he did because it I couldn't do what he did. You know the way he creates the shadow and the lights and the realism in his paintings with watercolor, which is notoriously hard to work with. You make a mistake, you've fucked, basically, yeah and yeah. So I love that. That.

Speaker 2 28:23

He was very different, but he did have work in exhibitions, not only local ones, but still, when I look back, I think God he really did put himself out there and he used to take me to Beezy Gallery, which is this little independent art shop not far from here, and it's still there and it's still open. So I go there quite a bit because it reminds me of him, because he used to take me and did your father passing?

Speaker 1 28:55

was that like a kick up the ass going? Look, you're not happy, you've got to do something for you hugely.

Speaker 2 29:03

Looking back now. I went into a long period of drinking too much, putting too much, trying to right. Let's just carry on, it's fine. It's fine, but it wasn't fine and I and I wasn't happy, and it really did. It's absolute thing, even though it still took me a really long time after he died to say, right, that's it, I'm going to leave this job. It was what pushed me, for sure.

Speaker 1 29:35

And I think sometimes in life it's often those really tough moments that give us the job we need to move forward. Yeah.

Speaker 2 29:47

Obviously there was a lot of discussions about it with myself, because he's gonna have to support the whole family, because obviously you don't just say I'm going to be an artist now no and then have a paycheck every month doesn't work like that, sadly absolutely not quite. Uh up and down, isn't it?

Speaker 2 30:05

a roller coaster of finances and frustrations so marcel was fully supportive in let's get you doing what you really want to do yeah, and also as a part of that, I had spent so much time rushing from place to place, working part-time, with my mind being on the kids. When I'm with the kids, my mind's on my job, never fully being present with anybody, rushing, stressing, and I just simply, just simply couldn't fucking do it anymore. It's like what am I actually doing? It was quite existential. I don't know about you, but when I got to 40, it was quite excess. I don't know about you, but when I got to 40, it was quite existential, say more what?

Speaker 2 30:51

what are you doing with your life? Really yeah not in, not from a family side of things, but I just thought I've done this degree. I've never done anything with it. I felt like I was failing, if I'm going to be honest at that point, because I felt like it wasn't being true to me and you understand why you've thrown all your energy into caring for your father, caring for your family raising kids.

Speaker 2 31:17

Like you said yourself, it's very difficult to focus on you, and that's obviously and I suppose maybe it just comes to that point, naturally, where I was able to say, okay, now it's my turn, maybe I've done this. You know, I've gone through this awful time with losing my dad, but he did it. He found a way to carve out that time, to enjoy that. I need to do that. Every job I've done, I've never felt like I've fitted in particularly. I've never felt like I was excelling because truly it was never really what I wanted to do.

Speaker 1 32:01

You're filling gaps to get to.

Speaker 2 32:03

Yeah, you're on the wheel again, right. So now I've got this job and now I need to work through promotion and I need more responsibility and I'm not this is not me judging anybody.

Speaker 1 32:15

that suits some people, but it doesn't suit me and I think you see that in a lot of creative people. I think it's very difficult and we speak about it all the time. Look, we're not taught that the artist is the conducive way of making money. No, we're now in a time that that's sort of changing.

Speaker 2 32:35

There were no role models for me. I don't know about you, but when I was doing my A-levels, for example, there was nobody around who was making money from art that I could see. That would make you think, god, I could do that, which is why also and I was going to say this earlier is that what kind of role model am I for my children if I'm just doing something that I don't really want to be doing and I'm even subconsciously projecting that I'm not really happy and I don't have much self-worth because I'm not reaching my full potential, and I think they need to see that, and I love the fact that they see that now. So they've got their dad, who's really successful at what he does and he's always been such a hard worker and he will never let us down and we are his world, and he will do everything to support us, even to allow me to do what I need to do well, it's an offshoot.

Speaker 1 33:34

I don't want to be cliched, but happy wife, happy life and also you know you're not wrong, no, but more than that. I mean. That's quite flippant. But what I I mean is when you love someone, you want to see them excel. You want to see them be happy, you want to see them fulfilled, you want to see them meet the dreams that they want, and he could probably feel that you weren't happy.

Speaker 2 33:54

Oh yeah, definitely, Definitely. And I felt more rewarded in the last few years than I have my entire adult life from doing what I do now.

Speaker 1 34:10

So come on then, claire. How would you describe your style of work well and has and has in some way since deciding to do it full time? Has there been? Have you seen an evolution in your work because you've given yourself more time to focus on?

First Year as an Artist

Speaker 2 34:27

yes, okay, definitely yes, but there's a lot of questions no, no, no, that's fine. The first year of doing it, obviously I made like zero money and I didn't know what to do with myself because I'd never been self-employed and I didn't really know what to do, and so, okay, what does that look like?

Speaker 1 34:46

you're going right, okay, I'm going to be an artist now. I've never been self-employed. Do I buy a sketchbook? Do I buy some canvases? Because, yeah, you're learning on as you go, really aren't you?

Speaker 2 34:57

Yeah, there was a lot of self-reflection that first year and I did meet up with there's a local artist who lives not far away and I met with him. That was really interesting. And then I got approached by John from Cosimo.

Speaker 1 35:14

Also previous guest on the Creative Noirland podcast.

Speaker 2 35:17

So he has this company called Cosimo that is a platform for artists so you can sell your work on the creative noah land podcast. So he has this company called cosimo that you is a platform for artists so you can sell your work on the website. There's a community and that was really good for me because I'm naturally I like connecting with people and it's very social I'm very social and it's very lonely when you just got the dog to work with, so that was good.

Speaker 2 35:41

So John got in touch and said I think your stuff would work well. Would you like to put your stuff on Cosimo and join the WhatsApp group, because there's always a WhatsApp group, isn't there? There's always a WhatsApp group. I've got about 17,000 of them, so that was really good, was that?

Speaker 1 35:55

in some way sort of flattering, because presumably you produced work that these people have seen.

Speaker 2 36:05

Is in some way sort of flattering because presumably you produced work that these people have seen. Is that just through social media? Just social media? Yeah, so that it was really flattering. And because I was like, oh because still, I don't have that many followers, right, but being a child of the 90s, that doesn't bother me too much. I get work. So it doesn't correlate for me. The number of followers that doesn't equal work for me. But even then I had hardly any followers and most of those were my friends and family. So it was really nice for John to reach out and it was a little bit of validation. So for that year, I think, a couple of friends of friends approached me and said Could you do something so I would create work for them. Obviously I had no idea of pricing or anything like that, so it was a pittance, but this is all part of the journey, this is how you learn. And also, you can't expect to charge megabucks when you're starting out. You know you've't expect to charge megabucks when you're starting out.

Speaker 1 36:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2 37:00

You know you've got to find your way. So there was a lot of what am I doing, oh God, I mean all the time, still now. But it was all abstract.

Speaker 1 37:10

It was all abstract.

Speaker 2 37:11

You went straight in and went abstract and acrylics, because oils are very hard to work with and the way that I work is there's multiple layers and the way my brain works we were talking about this earlier, weren't we that there's so many layers and I work quickly and so I need it to dry quickly, so acrylic works for me. But then later on I did introduce watercolors, which I really actually love working with, which is maybe a nod back to my dad, but I use them in an abstract way still, because then, once you get on Instagram, so you start making these connections with people, and then there'd be like a networking event, which is actually where we met. Do you remember a gallery in St Paul's?

Speaker 1 37:59

Yes, yes, we did so.

Speaker 2 38:01

I was like oh, do you know what? I've got no one to go with, it's in the day, I'll just go on my own. And that took a lot for me because I felt like a fraud, because you still get massive imposter syndrome. And even now I sometimes say why am I even doing this? Do you do that?

Speaker 1 38:20

Why am say why am I even doing this? Do you do that? Why am I even doing this? Imposter syndromes. We speak about it a lot on the podcast and I rant about it all the time. But as it is, but as I've got older and I think maybe doing the podcast and speaking to so many different people going, oh my god, it's so universal, but actually it's about reframing it. We're doing something new, we're growing, we're trying something different most people sit on their sofas and they buckle with the lives so.

Speaker 1 38:42

I want to feel imposter syndrome. I want to feel like I'm doing something, whether that's even when I go to Spain and I start trying to speak Spanish, I'm like, oh my god, this is awful, but every time you're learning something new you learn from your mistakes. You learn from the things that you could do better and, like you say, you're in your first year of being a full-time artist. The imposter syndrome must be outrageous oh yeah so trying to learn from any avenue, whether that's networking from.

Speaker 2 39:07

And it's hard, isn't it? Because you don't know what to do? I literally didn't know what to do. Do I try and get stuff in a gallery? Do I do a market? Do I try and build a website and sell online? You know, there's so many ways to go and you don't. There's no one really helping.

Speaker 1 39:27

No, you meet people along the way, and sophie, for example, who former guests, a former guest and who also recommended you we we should give Sophie a shout out, a big shout out because she's been a massive help, not only from a sort of business side of you know maybe you could try this but also just a cheerleader.

Speaker 2 39:50

A massive, massive cheerleader always has your back. If I'm not sure about something, speak to her. She's always been there from a creative point of view and I've got lots of people like that, but she's because she's also an artist. We've been able to bounce ideas off each other and collaborate and collaborate, which was really lovely. Yeah, her style is completely different to me, so that piece that we did together really was a meeting in the middle which worked really well.

Speaker 1 40:26

The collaboration. That was kind of nice, wasn't it? Because it was that same gallery show that I was in. Yes, yeah, In fact, I think my piece was next to your piece.

Speaker 2 40:35

It was yeah, well, that was Sophie actually saying do you want to do a piece together, like how about you do an abstract background and then I'll I'll illustrate on the top. So I was like, so did that. But that's what I love about her she's just really open to working with lots of different people and she's really good at putting herself out there she's very knowledgeable, isn't she?

Speaker 1 41:00

for I feel that sophie's quite young, but then I suppose we're old, we are old, but she is young but she's, she's knowledgeable and I think even people who listen to a podcaster will see that she's got that determination that I think I don't know exuberance of youth, confidence of youth, or whatever she's not been worn down by life she's definitely not been worn down but I think what I've learned from her is is resilience and to not take things personally it's a reoccurring theme with all the artists, entrepreneurs, everyone.

Speaker 1 41:32

It's like you can't give up at the first hurdle.

Speaker 2 41:35

No, you've got to have if you really want it yeah you've got to build the resilience yeah and it does pay off, because that first year was shit.

Speaker 1 41:46

But it's all part, you know, of the journey were you close to maybe giving up a point in the first oh loads, yeah, loads of just it's not viable, it's oh yeah, I started looking for admin jobs again.

Speaker 2 41:57

Got no money coming in.

Speaker 1 42:00

You must have had a few little gems throughout that year that you're like no, I've got to stick at this, or what was it?

Speaker 2 42:05

I think really joining that Cosimo network was really nice. And then I had a couple of commissions. Although there were people I knew it was still pushing myself to create work for other people, which was something. This sounds stupid, but that hadn't really entered my mind. I just wanted to do art. There was not necessarily an end game at the point.

Speaker 1 42:29

Well, you don't necessarily think about a commission, do you? No, people say I want to be an artist, you just go. I just wake up in the morning, look at the blank canvas and create whatever the hell I like it. It's so easy.

Speaker 2 42:39

Yeah.

Speaker 1 42:40

But it doesn't work like that. So what were the friends sort of asking? How did that work? Did they just see work that you were producing, or want something like that, or was it a bit more? I mean, because abstract is like we said, it's one of those. Well, my interiors are sort of this color.

Speaker 2 42:54

Yeah.

Speaker 1 42:55

Will that dictate the color palette? Will that dictate style?

Speaker 2 42:59

So the way that I work now and this has taken years to get to this point, and this is where I'm comfortable with how I work is that someone approaches me and I have to remember they've approached me because they love my work and they want to invest in it and they are going to look at it every day in their health. So any bit of imposter syndrome I banish at that point because you have to, because if you don't go into that project without thinking I can do this, they want me to do this. It's not going to work, it's going to be half-assed and not good. So a client they might pick out a couple of pieces. I work with a lot of couples. They say we both are really drawn to this piece and then I might go and look at the space where they're wanting to hang it. Obviously, the feel, the mood, the colour of the room does to an extent Does your fashion background help you in that.

Speaker 2 43:58

Do you know? I think it might do that beautiful soft pastel on that wall would work perfectly with this vibrant Well, yes, because so, tom and Claire, I did a commission for them and this was a biggie for me. So it was Claire's 40th birthday and Tom asked me to do a piece for her. And she didn't know, is this a recent?

Speaker 2 44:17

This was this no sorry, last, because we're in yeah, it was 2024, okay, over the summer and it had to be delivered for her. I actually took it to her 40th birthday party and she didn't know cool so obviously I was like wanted to take valium for like a week before that. Yeah, the anticipation of that must have terrifying oh my goodness a commission reveal has got to be the most hideously exciting, exhilarating, vomit inducing thing you do even now even now. I've had one this year where I've thought I think I've nailed this, but that's not very often but how does that translate?

Speaker 1 45:38

that's you internally?

Speaker 2 45:39

but then when your client sees them, presumably they're like blown away yes, I mean, but then I think the law of averages is that at some point, someone's not going to like it, and that's what you've got. That's why I think you've got to have the resilience, because it's so subjective.

Speaker 1 45:57

Especially with abstract. Yeah, like you say, your father's landscapes, oh, it looks like that place. Yeah, oh, this portrait, yeah, it looks like that person. You don't have that same thing with abstract.

Speaker 2 46:09

Yeah, the way that I minimize that risk for my mental health is that, like they will say, we're drawn to this piece that already exists. And then I'll go in and say I'll say what colours do you like and what do you like in this room? Oh, this is going back to Tom and Claire, and when I revealed that and he hung it and sent me photos, he said and this is so lovely. He was like not only have you created this piece of art that we love, but you've managed to design it to be part of the room, which I think does go back to.

Speaker 1 46:46

There is an element of design in my work but because I think that for your layman viewer viewing abstract art, they probably see, oh, it's just brushstrokes splattered here, there, but, like you say, there's compositional design that has to go into it somewhere.

Navigating Creative Self-Confidence

Speaker 2 47:00

And then maybe that's something we'll talk about, but I did a course with a Canadian abstract artist beginning of last year which was revelationary. It was incredible. In what way Can you tell me more about that? So it was a course that was designed to work with your intuition and looking at composition and working them together. So it wasn't about technique. It wasn't for abstract art for beginners, for example. It was already we were kind of established artists or we'd been practicing for years, but it was working out how to trust our intuition.

Speaker 1 47:39

yeah, it was oh, it's amazing.

Speaker 2 47:42

So she's called pauline jams because she's my mentor as well, so she deserves a shout out. She's incredible. She's very established artist. So how does that?

Speaker 1 47:52

work, because we've spoken in other podcasts about having mentors. Often it's more in a business sense. How does having a mentor help you as an artist and what role does she play?

Speaker 2 48:03

she. So, first of all, we're all on a course together and there was maybe three of us that were from the uk and, because she's canadian, the majority are canadian or american, but also people from France, germany, so a really lovely mix of people. So there's already a good community there. So we'd have zoom calls every two weeks, you'd have an actual course, which you'd do online, and then there was a private Facebook group where you could post anything, asking for advice or just posting it, because and it's a really beautiful community of supportive they happen to be all women, but it's just how it happened. So then I carried on with her. There's a small mentor group, so she provides information about anything and you can specifically ask questions. So I'm having a solo exhibition and so we've got a call coming up and I've specifically asked her if we can talk about this solo exhibition. So she will tailor a lot of that call towards towards help and support me that's very cool.

Speaker 1 49:16

Yeah, and, like you say, being an artist creative it's so isolating sometimes if you haven't got those people around you mentors and people like that, even business mentors for the podcast for creative. No alarm for my art. It's something I'm definitely going to look into, but what made her the right mentor for you?

Speaker 2 49:32

I think because she's so sure of herself, she knows herself so well, she knows her work, she knows her style, she's very calm, she's completely open to new ideas and she's just so supportive, and not just from an art point of view. But I remember one call where someone had made a comment about a piece of my work and I'd taken it badly and I talked about it in this call and she was so gentle with the way she unpicked it and we got to the end and she was like but why do you think it affected you so much? And I was like like because I'm a crier. So I was crying and I went because I don't think I'm good enough. And she went there, it is there, it is. She said but you are, you are good enough and you have to believe in yourself because no other person is going to People can believe in you. But it doesn't matter one bit if you don't believe in yourself quote clip done well, done claire.

Speaker 1 50:40

That'll be the nice expire inspiring. But it is true to have the confidence in yourself. It's funny I've just posted a a blog post about. It's called fuck the critics oh yeah and it it's remembering that also. Not all voices matter? Yeah, but we have to assess who that person's coming from.

Speaker 2 50:59

Yeah, and that's the problem with social media is there's too much noise. There's too much noise and sometimes I have to shut it off because I just can't do it. If there's too much in my head, it's like I'm wading through the mud to find the clear thought of what I need to put down on that canvas, and if there's all this noise between those two things, I just can't do it and that sort of says more to me about how you're working and it is more emotive than just go.

Speaker 1 51:30

Oh no, I need this color. I'll just throw this down and that's abstract art and I'll just throw this on there, and I wanted a bit of red in there.

Speaker 2 51:36

Yeah.

Speaker 1 51:37

The way you work is much more emotive. You have to be in tune with that.

Speaker 2 51:41

Oh yeah, if I'm not in the mood and this took me a really long time to realise if I'm not in the right frame of mind, just don't even go there, because I will create work that I think is shit.

Speaker 1 51:54

But then I suppose I've had other people come on and go. Look, you've just got to sit down and do the work, whether you're feeling it or not.

Speaker 2 52:00

That doesn't work for me. Right, interesting, that does not work for me. And if that's the case, then I'll do something completely different. Still might be creative, but I might do some drawing, or I might even just tidy the studio. That always makes me feel better, because it's not like this all the time, believe me. Or you know, I will go for a run, or I'm always listening to music that's the biggest thing for me or and I read a lot, so I might go off and do that, because I realize the value in stepping away for me if I step away.

Speaker 2 52:36

And there was this piece which has got three paintings underneath it and it was going wrong every single time. And nina, who's my daughter, she went mum, you need to just leave it, go away, come back to it. And and she's 11. Yeah, so I did indeed leave it, go away and come back. And then it just came out. It was exactly what I needed to do, and this is about the noise. We need to stop trying to listen to everybody else and you need to start listening to yourself.

Speaker 1 53:08

That's easier said than done, though.

Abstract Art and Personal Expression

Speaker 2 53:09

Absolutely. And I'm like a good 20 years into getting to the point where I am, and the last three years has been very intensely getting to that point of saying and I don't know whether that comes with age as well, because I'm mid-40s and because I hate that whole oh, I'm getting old, I love being in my 40s. The more I get into the 40s, the less books I give. It's fantastic. I have more of a clear voice in my head. I know my worth and I know what I have to offer and I know that sometimes it's not great and I have to navigate that. And you have a dry period where you're like, oh God, and I have to navigate that. And you know, you have a dry period where you're like, oh God, I've just got no ideas, I'm never going to paint anything decent again.

Speaker 1 54:04

What do you do in that? Situation as an abstract artist. Where do you go? Do you go and look at other influences?

Speaker 2 54:10

Do you go and get more inputs? I find that too noisy for me, because sometimes your influence becomes that you're led by that and then you're almost not copying, but you find yourself leaning and you lose your voice. Yeah, I feel like I need to stay in my lane. For me, what's clearer and what helps better is always music that will lead me back to where I need to be, and also walking and I run, so that's when a lot of ideas come to me, when I quieten things down and then allow things to come to me.

Speaker 1 54:54

If you could describe your work. It's difficult. I want to say one word, but I think that's almost impossible. But how would you describe your work? Because it isn't just like sometimes, I will be honest, I do see abstract artists and I don't feel like there's anything behind that. I just feel like you're just like I said before, slapping paint on canvas or whatever.

Speaker 2 55:14

Yeah, and with your work there's like you're just like I said before, slapping paint on canvas or whatever. Yeah.

Speaker 1 55:16

And with your work, like you said, there's a lot of emotion behind it. If you're not in the right headspace, you can't paint, so I'm interested in how you would describe your work if someone was to ask you.

Speaker 2 55:29

Well, it'll be as it is, with me quite a long answer, that's all right, Okay.

Speaker 1 55:35

Podcasts are a great medium.

Speaker 2 55:38

It does always start with a mood or an emotion and I might sometimes have an idea of how I want it to look at the end, but that's very rare and that comes back to the intuition and the composition. So I'll have a color palette in mind that I want to use, and that's back to the intuition and the composition. So I'll have a color palette in mind that I want to use, and that's normally quite limited. And why do you do that?

Speaker 2 56:01

why do you put those limitations on it, as opposed to just going oh, I'm free to you know, throw anything around I think sometimes too much color muddies the waters for me and maybe that's the design, like literally, as we're saying these things, it's fucking into my head and I'm. Maybe it is the design element of things, but I want it to maybe be more striking, which means I don't want loads of different colors in there and I will always have music on. So that will dictate and I'll lean towards certain genres or sounds to match where I want to go with this painting interesting is that a form of um.

Speaker 1 56:44

It's not a synesthesia it is.

Speaker 2 56:45

It is because I've written about it. Yeah, and even the music dictates how I move you move and express on the canvas yeah on the canvas and I don't normally use brushes, it's all palette knives or color shapers or pieces of fabric.

Speaker 1 57:04

I was going to ask you that what's the one tool or material in your studio that you couldn't live without?

Speaker 2 57:10

Oh, palette knife. Palette knife and a rag.

Speaker 1 57:13

Rag, but that's what I mean. It's the simplest thing, isn't?

Speaker 2 57:16

it, and one of them is my dad's still oh, that's even so I use that, but yeah, I think that's very interesting.

Speaker 1 57:24

The music and that dictates. So I feel like we should have some sort of claire's playlist of oh god please, it's my obsession.

Speaker 2 57:32

I'm such a nerd. So if there was one piece, which maybe we'll use as an example, which was called reveal yourself, and it was a 55 square canvas and I'd started off, I was not in a great place and it so it was dark, I mean, and literally I was putting onto the canvas how I was feeling, so it was dark colors, sort of was tinkering with it and for a long time. And when I'm tinkering for a long time, that's when something's not working. If it happens, it will happen really quickly.

Speaker 2 58:05

Once I'm into it and I was just going through a time I'd stopped drinking, actually because I'd been drinking a fair amount and it's just after your father part, yeah it was just after the anniversary and I was like, just don't think this is serving me drinking, so I stopped and I actually didn't drink 10 months and then I do drink occasionally now, but I find that it's completely cleared my mind. I don't really want to alter my state, I've realized, because it really interferes with my creativeness. So I still had a lot of shame really attached to when I was drinking a lot and the behaviours and things that I'd done. And I was talking to Sophie about it and she said you know what? You've just got to let that go. I just don't think you can't hold on to that anymore. This has happened. And look where you are now.

Speaker 2 59:10

I think you need to just shift, like we were saying, reframe and shift your perspective. And I came back to this painting and I felt completely different, completely different, and so I restarted it and it was light, it was much brighter and there were pinks in it and it was how I was feeling. And you know, I was listening to a lot of cleo soul, who I adore. I think she's amazing and she's part of a collective called salt and their stuff is incredible and a lot of wicked tunes with little sims oh my god.

Speaker 2 59:49

Well, I've got a little sims quote on the wall. There's a certain flex that comes with feeling exhilarated, ain't it just the best, owning it, knowing you've elevated?

Speaker 2 59:59

yeah and that. I love that and a lot of it is really a lot of it is quite religious. It has some religious connotations, but in a real like they've got faith and they've got belief and it's really uplifting and I love that and I love her voice and I was listening to a lot of that and what came out of that was this white textured piece, but it still had the black underneath. You could see some of it coming through, yeah, and then, looking at it from my design and from you know, my mentor and her composition point of view, there were just touches of yellow, which was more of a design. That was my. I'd left my intuition there and I was happy with that.

Speaker 1 1:00:45

And then my design and the composition comes in so it is very much that blend of the two. You don't want to go as purely intuitive.

Speaker 2 1:00:51

You want that there has to be for me. You have to step back and think how is this working? How is the eye moving around this piece? Is it too top heavy, you know? Is it just going to be stuck at the bottom? So for, putting these just touches of yellow really allows the eye to move around the piece. Then you've got the dark showing through and I took it to some markets and people were, you know, they liked it. But this is always a considered purchase, an original piece of so I don't expect to sell.

Speaker 2 1:01:25

But then, out of seemingly nowhere, this guy emails me and says I've been looking at this piece on the website and he was like please tell me it hasn't sold. And it was this particular piece. No, it's here, I've actually got it with me. And he was like I'd really really like to buy it. And I was like, okay, you know, because every time that happens you're like oh, my.

Speaker 2 1:01:47

God, this is amazing, it never gets old. And he came, he drove for an hour to come and pick it up and I won't share it because it's personal to him, but he shared with me his story of what it meant to him and a situation that he'd been through a difficult time and he wanted to buy it for his new partner and for him. When he read what I'd written about it, it resonated so much with him remind me what the piece was called again.

Speaker 2 1:02:19

Reveal yourself. It started off dark. He'd gone through this difficult time, he'd not allowed himself to stay comfortable and he'd pushed himself out of this and it had been really awful, but ultimately he'd reached this point of being happy but do you feel like goes back to my original question do you feel like abstract art needs to be explained?

Speaker 1 1:02:45

it didn't need to be explained, but by you giving it that title I think prompted.

Speaker 2 1:02:49

Oh yeah, it tipped him over from thinking oh, I really like that to oh, my God, I have to have that. So, yes, I think maybe you've made me change my mind.

Speaker 1 1:03:01

No, but I think it's an interesting balance. It's always about how the viewer of the art is going to react to it, but I think in some ways it's not the artist's job to explain it and the meaning behind it from the artist's point of view, but to give it that title you sort of suggested it. Yeah, with abstract art, a lot must be down to the title in some respects.

Speaker 2 1:03:22

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 1:03:23

Because if you'd have titled that, untitled 3, it's got no connection, it's got no resonance.

Speaker 2 1:03:28

And actually one of the first big pieces that I did that I sold is my best-selling print and it's the one that people still talk about, and it's that one there.

Speaker 1 1:03:42

So Claire's pointing to a piece in the studio. This is not a visual podcast.

Speaker 2 1:03:45

No, sorry, do you?

Speaker 1 1:03:46

want to give it a bit of. Has it got a name, a description?

Speaker 2 1:03:48

So it's called Lost Without you and it's very textured, very layered and almost in half, but the bottom half is really deep teals and blues. There's a lot of movement. And then the top half is again very textured, but white, with some deeper colours peeking through, and then there's real dark cadmium, orange, hue highlights on it.

Speaker 1 1:04:15

We'll have to include a couple of these pictures in the show notes or the blog. But what? Why is it called that?

Speaker 2 1:04:22

so Marcel was working away. He worked abroad for a chunk of time, so so I was like literally lost without him and it was really hard and I do, I'm, I feel everything, really deeply everything, and it's a blessing and a curse, because when it's great, it's like oh, it's so good, I'm loving this, it's fantastic.

Speaker 1 1:04:47

But when it's not good, it's really really but do you think that helps with you creating? I, I think, so I don't I mean you said you don't create when you're not feeling it, but you create when you're in a dark space and use dark colors and you go right.

Speaker 2 1:05:00

I'm gonna express that I think when I'm in that neutral, that's when it's not good for me. If I'm really down there, shit that is good work, as painful as it is.

Speaker 1 1:05:10

And when I'm up there, those peaks and the trot and the deep troughs are actually where you resonate. When you're sitting in middle ground, it's it's not good, which is awful.

Speaker 2 1:05:18

I don't want to be in middle ground a bit more I don't know.

Speaker 1 1:05:21

I think the greatest art doesn't come from middle ground? No, it doesn't sorry, it comes from extreme highs.

Speaker 2 1:05:28

It comes from extreme lows because everybody's, you know, can be average every day. That doesn't inspire thinking, doesn't inspire feeling growth growth.

Speaker 1 1:05:41

It doesn't make you want to go there and that's why we have to embrace imposter syndrome yeah all of these things because the guy that bought the original of that.

Speaker 2 1:05:52

He just couldn't walk away from it and he then came and asked me about it. I love this. He was like how what's what's it about? Like it had the name of it, and I told him what it was about. He said to me it's like you can be down in the depths and and he he described it how I'd felt it. So I felt a real connection with him, so I was glad that it had gone to him like reveal yourself. It was meant to go to this lovely guy do you feel that?

Speaker 2 1:06:21

yeah, he was meant to have that painting and it. It hurts a bit to let them go because it it is literally a part of you and a moment in time, but you know we have bills to pay also, that's.

Speaker 1 1:06:35

That's the juggling but that's why I think it's interesting talking to you. I mean, right, I know a few abstract artists, but I feel that with you more and I'm not going to say that no other abstract artists do it with emotion or expression, but with you I can feel it, I can hear it and, like you said, that picture was supposed to go to that person.

Finding Self-Worth Through Art

Speaker 2 1:06:54

Oh yeah. And he said for me, when I look at this, it's like it feels very turbulent at the bottom. You're in the depth, but if you just try and look at it, then it's going to get better, it's going to pass, it's going to be calmer. Just try not to stay down.

Speaker 1 1:07:13

The only way out is through.

Speaker 2 1:07:15

Yeah, just push through that and hopefully you'll come out the other side, which is what happened, but he yeah he do you think in some way that your art is a way for you to process your you know?

Speaker 1 1:07:29

yeah like you say, those extremes and those highs and those lows that we all go through.

Speaker 2 1:07:34

Yeah, because with that feeling, everything deeply, I do struggle sometimes, which is universal, but there's been times when it's been really bad. But I think it was so bad before because I didn't have this, I hadn't allowed myself to have this outlet that I have now.

Speaker 1 1:07:54

Then it manifests in drinking too much or partying too much. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:07:58

Or making poor choices, making bad decisions and not sort of thinking I'm worth something, I'm creating something, I'm putting something into the world, because I do think what you put out you back as well. So not just in my art, but generally in life, that is something that I really try to do a lot more now but is it dangerous?

Speaker 1 1:08:24

wrapping yourself worth up in your art yeah, because what about those times when it doesn't sell or something's not going right, and suddenly you're.

Speaker 2 1:08:32

Well, this is me on a canvas yeah, that's hard and that's where I've had to build the resilience, because sometimes if you're at a market, for example, and it's, it does feel like here's my whole soul and thoughts and feelings laid out for all of you to walk past and comment sometimes people might just walk past and you go.

Speaker 1 1:08:55

Well, why aren't you looking at my soul?

Speaker 2 1:08:57

yeah, but I've really, I'm gonna say I'm really proud of myself that I've got to the point where I'm okay with that. I even had someone at a market say are you, are you famous? I was like, uh, no, what, why? Well, why is it all so expensive?

Speaker 2 1:09:19

oh, okay yeah, and I went because it is. I thought I'm this. I knew instinctively that to engage in a conversation about materials, wealth of knowledge, experience, she was not going to understand that. So I just said because it is, and she went and you sell, you sell stuff, do you? Oh, she was surprised yeah, and I said yes, yeah, I do how do you feel?

Speaker 1 1:09:43

because I mean, I imagine, yes, someone on a market might walk past flippantly and go. Bloody hell, that's expensive two thousand pounds for an original piece of art or more yeah but again, it's down to where you are. I think if you're in kensington in london, I don't think they're batten island no, selling your price no work that you do no, it is down to that is that a bit of a like?

Speaker 1 1:10:04

oh shit, I feel like I've got to justify my price to this person. Or is that another one of those who is asking me? Not all voices matter oh, so that person.

Speaker 2 1:10:14

There was no point engaging with them, so I didn't, because it's not worth my time. And there's this song on Solange's album and it's her unclogging for her dad and he's saying you know, so if you can't see my worth, then this is not for you. And it's so true. Not everybody is going to like what I do, and I'm okay with it, because if we all liked everything, we'd be in a right old mess you know, yeah, well, we'd all just be mimicking the same old things over and over and again.

Speaker 2 1:10:47

Yeah, and I do think that it's easy to get overwhelmed, especially when you're on social media. Everybody's doing it oh my gosh, there's so much competition but I do honestly think there's a place for everybody at whatever point you're at. So I'm at a point now that I never thought I'd be. I can't believe where I am now, from three years ago, and I've worked hard to get there.

Speaker 1 1:11:12

I mean, I know it's not just we've talked about inputs and experiences and all of those things being a contributing factor, but what bit of advice would you give someone that's going, no, fuck it, I'm gonna quit my day job and I'm go hell for leather.

Speaker 2 1:11:26

I'm gonna put all my energy into this that you have to be open to advice and you have to just try things and you have to put yourself out there. You have to push yourself out of your comfort zone.

Speaker 1 1:11:41

If you stay safe, you're never going to get anywhere what's the biggest way you've pushed yourself out of your comfort zone in that three years?

Speaker 2 1:11:48

I think, with commissions and now having a solo exhibition, which is what I think I've worked up to, but commissions-wise, after that lovely Claire and Tom 40th one, well, I was also working on another one which was two massive pieces Just for the interiors. Yeah, and I mean they were the dream clients couple. She was just so lovely. And what I love about the people that I work with with commissions is that we agree a color palette together, but it's my input, obviously. I'm like, well, I think it needs to be lifted with this, but they allow me to do what I do. They don't want me to do something else. They want me to create something for them, bespoke to them.

Speaker 1 1:12:40

It's a commission, but it's not a brief.

Speaker 2 1:12:42

Exactly, yeah, and that was a big job and I had to custom-made canvases, I had to look at pricing. There was a lot involved in that Having it bespoke framed, everything to do with that job and that was the one that I thought I'm going to this reveal and I don't feel sick, which is what I normally do, and they love it. And it looks so good in the room.

Speaker 1 1:13:12

But you're proving the point because every time you come up against imposter syndrome, you're just proving yourself that you can do it over and again by being brave and you've got all this backup. So now I go. Well, I've done this before. I did that reveal. That went great. I've got this one. That went great. And, like you say, with any profession, with any industry, with any skill set, confidence. If someone applies you with lots of confidence and you've done the things that you'll say you're repeatedly going to do to build up that resilience that you talk about it all gets easier.

Speaker 2 1:13:45

Yeah, and markets are good for that, because you can't believe the people that I've met.

Speaker 1 1:13:52

Again down to where you sell.

Speaker 2 1:13:55

Yeah, and I love that because you know I work alone and a lot of the time I do markets, not just because I want to sell artwork but because I need connection, not just with customers but with fellow traders who you know. You see the same people. It's really lovely and I've met some real characters at markets. But every person, I appreciate everybody. I love hearing what people say and it doesn't matter who they are If they stop and talk to me. I appreciate that A lot of people don't buy anything. I almost don't care because I'm taking something from each conversation that I'm having and it is connection and I think I can go way too much into my own head and that's not a good place sometimes and I need to get out of that and get some perspectives but then you previously said that actually being in your head can be quite an inspiration.

Speaker 1 1:14:56

Does that make sense? Like those extremes?

Speaker 2 1:14:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:14:58

So how do you balance that, Like when you sort of don't want to be in your head, but you do want to be in your head. You want to be intuitive, you want to be emotive, but you want to be resilient and practical at the same time.

Speaker 2 1:15:09

I think there's like an absolute sweet spot, and when you're there, when I're there, when I'm there, I'm almost hyper focused. So there'll be sort of periods of time where I'm so productive and I'm just doing loads and loads of work and then there'll be a time when nothing like nothing happens. Marcel will be like have you done anything today apart from write on the walls? I'm like no, not really, but it's learning how to not be freaked out by that yeah.

Speaker 2 1:15:43

I can't be freaked out by that, because then I think you prolong it. You're like, oh my god, why? Why is there nothing there? Why there's too many voices and there's too many ideas? And then also I get into this thing where I'm like I almost don't start something because in my head it's there. Do you get that?

Speaker 1 1:16:03

all the time I see the photograph that I want to take and then I go well there's no point in doing it because, like, unless I get a budget of this, yeah, I'm not gonna be able to get that set. So I'm not gonna be at that location. I can't get that model that I really wanted, yeah, and so you always go oh, it's better, left in my brain yeah, so I won't start that.

Speaker 2 1:16:20

I won't start that because I'm not going to achieve it.

Speaker 1 1:16:22

So how does that work? In terms of you talking about a solo show, so a lot of your work is commissioned.

Speaker 2 1:16:28

yeah, so when it comes to the blank canvas and you just Nothing worse than a blank canvas, just saying but that's what I mean.

Speaker 1 1:16:38

You're talking about the solo show that's coming up?

Speaker 2 1:16:41

Yeah, that I haven't done anything for yet.

Speaker 1 1:16:44

But that's what I mean. That's what I'm intrigued to know more about. What will that solo show? Will you be getting some of the commissions back just to show previous things, or? Will it be completely new. It's all a new collection of work. Is there going to be a theme? Is there going to be a base, or is it? Yeah, is that what you're establishing now?

Speaker 2 1:17:02

that is what I'm establishing now. So you know, when I say about, sometimes I don't actually put any paint on a canvas, that's not to say that I'm not being creative oh no, definitely because, obviously Because obviously, as we know, there's this bloody solo exhibition that I've put on myself. It's been forming in my mind for, I mean, it could have been years.

Speaker 1 1:17:29

If anyone's ever had dreams of being an artist, we've all wanted a solo show, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:17:33

I mean no, and you're like manifesting it and I've written this down. Like when I first started this, you know I'd write these things down. I'll do this will happen. I will sell my art. That's another way of instilling confidence in yourself. You don't write, I will or I hope I am selling my art I sell my artwork. I make connections with people I create good work.

Speaker 2 1:17:56

I have a solo exhibition and then it and it comes to fruition because you are literally changing the way you're thinking about yourself and what you're going to put out. So, yes, this, which I haven't started yet, is going to be at Nook Gallery in Kingsheath. Okay, so I did open Birmingham Open Studios, which is this amazing initiative which is put on once a year in September, october, october, and it's where people open their studios. Artists open their studios for people to come and see where they work, how they work their processes. So it's a real lovely mutual meeting of minds, because people want they go there, because they want to learn about this and, as an artist, it's so lovely to talk about your work and how you produce it, like today. This is like a therapy session, by the way I'll put my invoice.

Speaker 2 1:18:56

Yes, please don't and so the catchment area doesn't reach, so you can be hosted. Yes, and gosia, who owns nook who's? She's a handbag maker, designer by trade. She's absolutely fantastic. She's built a beautiful community. They have artwork workshops.

Speaker 1 1:19:18

They have other people there in studios so that's not where you do your abstract workshops now. Is that you've got you do? You can do them in any venue that you choose.

Speaker 2 1:19:26

Yes, yeah yeah, so I had my open studios, nook, and it was absolutely brilliant. It fully revitalized me. There was six other female artists there were. We were all very different and we all bounced off each other and it was so create such a great weekend and I created a piece of artwork while I was there over the weekend which I've never done before. As I've said before, I work alone, so that was pushing myself out of my comfort zone. How was that?

Speaker 1 1:19:57

like creating with people looking over your shoulder, oh god, awful but again, another thing to build that resilience, yeah, but I did it, but I did it.

Speaker 2 1:20:06

At the end of the Saturday, I completely painted over what I'd done oh, really yeah that's not unusual for me.

Speaker 2 1:20:13

There's quite often two to three paintings underneath a final piece. I was like I hate this. This is awful. I'm just going to have a mini existential crisis, which is also normal. But I've learned another thing. I've learned is don't be freaked out by that either. So I write a lot of things that I refer back to. So on the wall in my studio I capitals, underline, trust, the process. There's going to be that point where I think it's shit, this is shit. Why am I even doing this? It's terrible, and then the next day I'll come back, as I did at open studios and you go oh, that's all yeah.

Speaker 2 1:20:52

I'm going to just get these two colors onto my palette knife. I'm just going to loosen up my arms, my whole body, because it's a whole body thing and I'm just going to put them down, step back and wipe, and then just that can completely change. I like what's happened there and that's your intuition as well, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:21:16

And that's what most artists will work on. Right, the painting's finished? From intuition, it's not. Oh, here's my 15,000 brushstroke. That means the painting's finished. It's like oh no, I need to go away and I need to flip that mad ochre yellow across the bottom of it.

Speaker 2 1:21:34

And now it's done. Yeah, and sometimes I'll even get that highlight color and I'll put one final stroke and I'll be like oh, that's it, that's that's it. Yeah, you know but again, that's down to intuition and experience, presumably and also quite often I will hang something and I'll go out and when I come back and open the door and I look at it, I'll know if it's done or not those fresh eyes was the way. Yeah, yeah, I mean there's things hanging up out there that I'm like still keep putting bits and bobs on.

Speaker 1 1:22:07

I'm like, just for god's sake, that's interesting because ava said the same thing and hers. She never feels like and hers is much more figurative yes, she, never she never feels like a painting's finished. That's it. There's always something else you could do.

Speaker 2 1:22:21

Oh, there is but, you have to let the viewer yeah, you've got to stop at some point, obviously, because if you overwork it and then you're like oh, fuck, yeah, should have left it 15 minutes ago, is that a common thing? Yeah, is that why you end up?

Speaker 1 1:22:36

over painting.

Speaker 2 1:22:37

Yes, but that's why I also love acrylic, because it's quite forgiving in that you can go over it, you know whereas oils you get that thickness oh god yeah no, no, not sanding it down and it takes so long to dry yeah, so you don't get that fluidity, I suppose, do you?

Speaker 2 1:22:54

Mine's quite bold and it's not transparent and you know immersive. I've gone back to your question. You asked me about 35 minutes ago how. I describe my work it's bold and it's immersive and it's quite captivating and whether it's calm or frenetic, there's always a sense of energy and movement there you go. You answered your question for 35 minutes. That's how my brain works are there any?

Speaker 1 1:23:26

and we spoke about roscoe, but are there any other artists that really stand out to you as being quite big influences?

Speaker 2 1:23:32

so and I've written them down, because my name, my memory is so bad, as you've heard, and I can't remember names. So, pauline, her work I love. She's not so bold in her color palettes. They're more refined, a little bit more muted than me, but I I love her work and mark rothko's we've talked about because I think it's so immersive and, having seen so many in real life, they had a huge impact on me. There's also an abstract landscape artist called Gareth Edwards. He works in oil and I love his work. He's on Instagram Instagram like everybody is, but that is definitely worth a look.

Speaker 1 1:24:17

I'll get some notes off you and we'll add some links and stuff but his is very immersive as well.

Speaker 2 1:24:23

It really draws you in, and his composition is extremely clever. The way he frames landscapes a lot of the canvas will be seemingly quite plain, and then there'll be a swoop of something at the bottom. It's really beautiful. And then from like a Birmingham network, I really like Anita Rue her work. She's abstract, quite ethereal, colours, colors are blended. It's just really beautiful.

Speaker 1 1:24:57

Again, very immersive, I think it's always nice to hear who the artists that people are interested in yeah because you can sort of see that, like we're talking about inputs and outputs. Yeah, the more inputs you have, yeah but I mean, I must say I don't see rothko instantly, apart from in the immersive color. Yeah, depth of color and I think that's it. It's, everybody takes something different. I don't see Rothko instantly, apart from in the immersive colour. Yeah, depth of colour probably.

Speaker 2 1:25:14

And. I think that's it. Everybody takes something different. So from his work I take the feeling, the feeling that I felt when I was sat looking at it. That's what I take from that, not the colour palettes or the style, and maybe that's just the way that I think Someone else might visually take something from that, but for me it's the feeling and the emotion.

Speaker 1 1:25:39

What's the most challenging part about being an abstract artist?

Speaker 2 1:25:43

I think it's the juggling of trying to run it as a business without sacrificing your creativity how do you do that? Again. Sometimes I've found myself thinking oh, I know that this was popular, this particular piece, so I might create another piece in a series. And there i'm'm thinking more in a I've got like a business.

Exploring Music's Influence on Art

Speaker 1 1:26:18

This sells. I better do more like that yeah.

Speaker 2 1:26:20

And I think that's where you can. Yes, that's good if you've got an outlet, as in a selling outlet, but when it comes to being true to yourself, I think you have to forget everybody else, otherwise your work isn't going to be authentic. You can't think. Will they like this, or are the people of instagram going to click like on this particular one, or but that goes back again to what you're saying about.

Speaker 1 1:26:55

When you get a commission, you have to tell yourself that this is my piece. But they love what I do and they want me to do it yeah, rather than them going. Oh, you have to do it in this color and I want three quarters of the canvas like this and I want this.

Speaker 2 1:27:09

no one's ever done that, which has been fantastic, because I couldn't work like that. They've always allowed me to do what I do, but keeping in mind a colour palette, but I like that anyway, because I don't. I normally have a colour palette in mind before I start.

Speaker 1 1:27:29

That's the only thing that I'm generally and it's amazing how many artists, creatives, entrepreneurs that I talked to will put those forced limitations on themselves because it means they will start that blank can imagine if you're on a blank canvas and you've got every color known to man, oh god, you'd never start. But actually now you've limited to three.

Speaker 2 1:27:48

Yeah, okay, I feel a bit yeah a bit more and then something else might come in at the end. But, like you say, yeah, I think you have to put that in place, otherwise you wouldn't ever start it.

Speaker 1 1:27:59

Yeah what do you think we haven't spoken about that we should have? You got a date for your solo show.

Speaker 2 1:28:08

Yes, yes, I have. Oh, you've put that extreme on there.

Speaker 2 1:28:12

So you've given yourself that target second of may wow, good work yeah so well, yeah, could we go back to this? Yeah, to that solar exhibition. So I'd been ruminating and thinking about this for a really long time and I was talking about it with my son, who's nine, and I said, hey, what do you think about if I looked back at points in my life and went back and how that made me feel like moving to London, for example, and he was like, yeah, that's quite a good idea. But he didn't seem sure. You know, we were talking about it a bit more. And then it came to me afterwards that I think the other thing that is such a huge part of my life and connected me with my dad and also does with my mum too and my brother is music, and so there's certain things that I've realized. If I wanted to go back to that point, then there's that album, there's that song, I'm there.

Speaker 1 1:29:19

The soundtrack of your life.

Speaker 2 1:29:20

Yeah, it is. It's like my journey through sounds, you know, and like talking about it. I love talking to the kids about it because they're very, they just say what they say, they don't overthink it. So sometimes it's quite good to discuss things with them. And then I said to Nina, you know what do you think? And she was like well, you are, you know, you have it on all the time. I think my Apple replay said I listened to 58,000 minutes of music last year and that's not including the radio and other things. So it is on all the time. And that's not including the radio and other things. So it is on all the time. And so this whole exhibition is going to be gigs, albums, songs that mean so much to me that it's going to be like a visual representation of how that makes me feel on a canvas.

Speaker 1 1:30:12

That's very cool. That's very cool. Hopefully, no, hopefully, about about it. You've put it out there, claire, that's. That's it now, isn't it?

Speaker 2 1:30:20

you've said it, it's well, and this is my, my.

Speaker 1 1:30:22

I keep pointing, but we're on a podcast yeah this is like the beginnings of it so claire's now pointing to a wall that she's what writing lots of notes, ideas, quotes does music define me? Is it an obsession? Yeah, and it's funny because I wrote down on my list you're a big music fan, so how does music play a role in your work, and is that linked to synesthesia?

Speaker 2 1:30:44

oh my god. And then look, I've written about synesthesia. Yeah, seeing colors, patterns, shapes. When you hear music, it I would say it's without music.

Speaker 1 1:30:54

For me there is no art and how are you going to do that? Are you going to pick points in your life first and then go backwards? Have you got some of those points that you're trying to represent?

Speaker 2 1:31:05

I have, you have already so, and and also alongside that, live music for me is the ultimate joy. It's like soul food, it's lifeblood, it's everything, and it goes back to that connection. And art is obviously not just paintings. Art, creativity is everything, isn't it? It's music, it's musicians, it's people that embroider, it's people that knit it's musicians, it's people that embroider it's people that knit everything.

Speaker 2 1:31:37

And I love live music so much because to see people. And I can't play an instrument and I can't sing, but it doesn't matter, that's what I love about music. It doesn't matter if you can't sing or play an instrument. You can still get the utmost joy or go to the deepest depths just by listening to something and seeing people on stage connecting. So I'm a massive erica badu. I have been since 1997 there's showing my age.

Speaker 2 1:32:09

I've been lucky enough to see her live five times and it is almost a spiritual experience. She is so connected to every single member of her band that if she wants them to go down a key, she literally will just move her finger the tiniest bit and they know what to do. If she wants them to stop and her just sing a caest bit, and they know what to do. If she wants them to stop and her just sing acapella, they know what to do. I've been to a gig of hers where she did a 45 minute dj set, because she doesn't give a shit about what time she's meant to finish or where this is meant to be going. She's like do you know what? I'm vibing with this crowd and I want to do a 45-minute DJ set in between singing my songs, and that's why I love her so much and she's the ultimate creative queen to me.

Speaker 1 1:33:02

So which Erykah Badu song will be manifested first in the exhibition?

Speaker 2 1:33:09

Well, my favourite song of hers ever is Other Side of the Game, which is on her first album, Bedouinism, but as a whole, Mama's Gun, which the vinyl is behind you, which was released in 2000, as a story, as a complete body of work. And I'm such a nerd Like if the kids go, can we press shuffle on this album? I'm like you what Shuffle an album? Not in this house. You won't Sacrilege. That artist did that number of songs in that order for a reason. And it's a journey and it's a story and it's got a start, a middle and an end and for me that album is up there. It's like top three. So that is one as an as a whole. And in 2000 I was clubbing a lot, but I think that album created was the other side of that frenetic partying, crazy. This was grounding.

Speaker 1 1:34:13

This was like a different person it's like you said you've always got to have balance absolutely in your life.

Speaker 2 1:34:19

Your music, yeah painting, so that created the balance for me. So that's, that's definitely one how many?

Speaker 1 1:34:28

how many do you reckon you've got, or how many you're going for, or do you know? I'm not.

Speaker 2 1:34:31

I'm not sure yet. It's still in the planning, it's still in the planning, but at least 10.

Speaker 1 1:34:36

Got any names for any yet.

Speaker 2 1:34:39

Not yet no.

Speaker 2 1:34:41

And then there's another song that is by Nick Hakeem, called when Did you Go. And after Dad Died, you know, like on your Apple Music, it takes what you like and it might throw in songs you don't know and literally after Dad died, this song popped up and it was. It encompasses everything that I felt about losing him and I couldn't, and I'd listened to it a lot, and then I couldn't listen to it and I and still now I've got to be, and I, and still now I've got to be in the right strong frame.

Speaker 1 1:35:17

I've got to be in the right frame of mind, but that definitely needs to be one of them it's amazing, isn't it, what music can do in those moments to give you that release, that expression that you could have never found in those words.

Speaker 2 1:35:30

No, you're hearing like oh my yeah, I mean like that, gladys knight and the pips it's. He's leaving on a midnight train to georgia. I don't know how I got you know the words and it and that means different things to different people, but for me that's my dad is. He's going, he, he's left. And you know how can I live in a world? Oh yeah, and it does just take you. It's so emotive and sometimes so nostalgic. It's the only thing. Music, I think. For me, it allows me, it creates a gateway to allow me to access feelings and sometimes you know, like I'm in that middle neutral bit and I need to be up or down to create the work.

Inspiring Quotes and Future Guests

Speaker 1 1:36:25

I can very selectively choose what I listen to and it can take me there yeah immediately well, I'm looking at your board and it says certain songs are like old friends, come to you. Yeah, it's beautiful and I think, yeah, it's a really great starting point for your first solo show. I think that'd be bloody amazing and well done you for putting that pressure on yourself, giving yourself a date and going right. I've got to work towards this.

Speaker 2 1:36:53

I think you have to do that sometimes, otherwise you just meander along.

Speaker 1 1:36:56

Yeah, of course, and never and never get there yeah, and anything we can help with to help promote it or whatever we will thank you the nook gallery. When was the date second of?

Speaker 1 1:37:06

may second of may second of may 2025 until the 16th amazing, claire, I think we have spoken about a hell of a lot and I've already asked you whether we should have spoken about anything else and we think we've covered. I think we have. Yeah, we've covered quite a lot. There is a tradition on the creative no land podcast which I have pre-warned you about yes, you have and we've I mean god. There's loads of quotes written all over the wall that we could just choose from.

Speaker 1 1:37:31

But I like to ask people some sort of quote that resonates with them or is inspiring for them, but also someone within your network who would you think would make an interesting and inspiring guest to come on the creative neverland podcast okay, do you want my quote first?

Speaker 2 1:37:45

you can do it in any order you like so well, I think actually we'll say I I really like Greg Day. He's a photographer and I really like his work. So he does close-up headshots in black and white. I've seen them.

Speaker 1 1:38:03

He's done your profile picture, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:38:04

Okay, but as you can see, I do like sharing and I do like talking. I think I was at his house for two and a half hours for what was like a 10 minute shoot. He was so interesting. He's also a massive music, but he likes to do these close-up black and white headshots where he actually joking was joking about how he spent three hours on this big crevice between my eyebrows, this brown of mine. I was like cheersreg. But he likes to bring out all the features because he feels like people's lives can be shown on their faces. You know, it's a. It's a map of where they've been, which I really like, and he does these beautiful write-ups. When he posts something, he does a write-up underneath, which is really lovely and he's just a top bloke and really interesting so he would be shot.

Speaker 1 1:38:55

Daniel as well, I believe? Yes, he has yeah so he's cornering the market on creative noah land podcast.

Speaker 2 1:39:00

Guest yeah, I think he is so that would be my, he would be my recommend, great. And then I've. I've actually got it here, because it's quite long and I'm not very good at remembering things, but this quote is from so there's a singer called Yasmin Lacey and from her album Voice Notes, the first song is an interlude and it's her talking, and this is from that.

Speaker 1 1:39:25

Okay.

Speaker 2 1:39:27

So it goes. I saw this tweet from Flylo it was like a few years ago now and he said in the tweet self-consciousness is the creativity killer, and that just rested with me so heavy. I just thought this is it like if you're going to do these things, you have to open yourself. Open up yourself, but it's scary. And making yourself vulnerable is scary because I think you have to get really comfortable with the fact that if you take risks and stuff and if you choose to expose yourself, you know there's like risk there and sometimes you might fail in fact you will fail at some point but you know the risks. When they pay off, they're really high and I don't mean that necessarily about music, I just mean in life self-consciousness of the creativity killer.

Speaker 1 1:40:18

So true as well, and how she's she's explained it and fly low is flying lotus.

Speaker 2 1:40:25

Who's a rapper?

Speaker 2 1:40:26

yeah, so it's almost a quote of a quote yeah so he said that self-consciousness is the creativity killer, and I just loved how she sort of interpreted that and her way of thinking about it, and it was her process of getting to the point of like, do you know what I'm going to do this album? And I've got to stop thinking about myself and everybody else and produce what I want to produce, and it is indeed an excellent album. Want to produce, and it is indeed an excellent album there you go and your music nerd stuff came right out there.

Supporting Creative Noah Land Podcast

Speaker 1 1:40:58

Claire, I think that's a bloody good place to end. Self-consciousness is the creativity killer. Wow, claire, thank you so much for doing the creative no land podcast. I can't wait to come to the show in may second of, may put it in your diary I will be putting it in the diary, and if there is anything we can do to help promote it or get it out there, we will do it. We're all a bit of a community and we've all got to help each other out. So, claire, thank you very much.

Speaker 2 1:41:24

Well, thank you for having me. I've really enjoyed it, and you'll send me that invoice, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:41:37

Of thank you for listening to the creative noah land podcast. If you found anything inspiring or useful in this episode, please consider subscribing or maybe sharing the episode with a friend. Anything you can do to help promote and support creative noah land is so beneficial and I really appreciate it. Check out the website and sign up to the newsletter to be the first to know of everything that's going on here in creative noah land. Thanks again for listening and until next time. Explore, inspire and create. Better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing than a long life spent in a miserable way, and so, therefore, it's so important to consider this question what do I desire?