#0015 MUKAH ISPAHANI - NO BORDERS TO CREATIVITY!

Welcome to the Creative Nowhere Land podcast.

In this episode, we’re joined by the incredibly talented artist and illustrator, Mukah Ispahani.

Originally from Cameroon and now based in the UK, Ispah has won awards and gained international recognition for his exceptional work. While his artistic skills span multiple mediums, his intricate portraits, meticulously crafted using just a ballpoint pen, caught my attention and led me to invite him onto the podcast.

We discuss Ispah's creative journey and explore how he developed his unique style. From growing up in Cameroon, where Ispah discovered his passion for art at a very young age, navigating a cultural landscape where the role of artists is often undervalued. Nurturing his talent and pushing the boundaries of his creativity until his art received global acclaim.

Following the perceived 'safe route' with his education but still having art as his main goal. Our conversation takes a deeper look at the challenges of maintaining creativity amidst civil unrest, providing a compelling insight into the resilience needed to keep creating when the world around you is in turmoil.  

Ispah also shares the inspiring story of how he and his friends worked to foster a love for art among young people in Cameroon, demonstrating the power of art as a tool for community building and cultural expression.

We also discuss Ispah's journey to the UK and his aspirations of building a sustainable art career in his new home. From overcoming obstacles to finding a place where his art can flourish, Ispah’s story is one of determination, hope and finding joy in creating.

This episode is packed with inspiration and showcases the power of creativity to transcend borders, culture, and ethnicity and transform lives. 

Be sure to check out the links below to explore Ispah’s captivating work as you listen.

MUKAH ISPAHANI WEBSITE: https://mukahispahani.com/

MUKAH ISPAHANI INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/ispah_art/

MUKAH ISPAHANI FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/ispaart/

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:03

Hello everyone and welcome to the Creative Noa Lam podcast. On this episode we're joined by artist and illustrator, Mukha Isbahani, Originally from Cameroon and now based in the UK. Isbah is an award-winning artist and has been recognised globally for his work, With a focus on mainly people and portraiture. Ispa is highly skilled across multiple mediums, but it was one style in particular his intricate portraits using solely a ballpoint pen that made his work stand out to me and led me to ask him to be a guest on the podcast. In this episode we'll get into Ispa's creative journey and how he developed that style. We discuss what it's like growing up in Cameroon and the perception of artists within African culture. We also talk about Ispa discovering his talent and finding joy from art at a very young age, nurturing and pushing that talent and eventually being recognized globally for his work. We also go into great detail about the difficulties of trying to be creative during times of civil unrest. Also, how Ispa and his friends were giving back and trying to promote art to young people in Cameroon. And Ispa's journey to get to the UK and his goal to stay here with the hope of pursuing his art career further. This episode is stacked full of inspiring stuff. Be sure to check out the links to Ispa's work while you're listening to the podcast.

Speaker 1 1:36

Anyway, enough of me, let's get into it. First of all, thanks for doing the creative noel and podcast and thank you. Thank you for having me. It's my absolute pleasure. This is going to be quite an interesting one because we don't know each other very well. We had work in the same exhibition group show last year, I think it was, and I just I fell in love with your work, or the piece of work that I saw within that exhibition. Before we get on to that and the style of your work, you're originally from Cameroon. I want to know how are artists perceived in Cameroon? Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 2:30

Yeah, it does, because you know, when we talk about, you know, artists' perception in Cameroon I think it's not just in Cameroon but then in most African countries. You know we have the same or similar art culture and I think that starts from the countries. You know we have the same or similar art culture and I think that starts from the homes. You know the families, because in Cameroon we have this ideology, we have this idea that our kids are supposed to, you know, go to school and then, when they finish from school, they become doctors or, you know, engineers or accountants, accountants you know all these big names, you know or so-called proper jobs, yes, all these just kind of jobs, and so that's just the, that's the mindset of a lot of Cameroonian parents and that goes a long way to affect the way art is perceived in Cameroon.

Speaker 2 3:21

And so I would say that the value that we give to art, you know, is higher in this part of the world, like in the Western world, europe, in America, you know, the perception of art in terms of the value and the worth is greater as compared to Cameroon. But, that notwithstanding, we love art. I mean, we have a very rich culture and we express art in different forms, because sometimes when we talk about art, it's not just about the painting, the visual arts. We also have things like sculpture, the rich culture, the traditional attires that we have, and so I'm looking at art in this broad sense. And Cameroon has a very rich culture, very rich artistic heritage, and this reflects in our daily life. But when it comes to art as a career, you want to become a painter, you want to become an illustrator.

Speaker 1 4:17

You know it's not something that is given serious consideration but that's what I was trying to get to, because I actually think that's a universal world thing. It's the starving artist syndrome, isn't it?

Speaker 1 4:29

you're not going to make money as an artist, and everyone I've spoken to, whether they're artists from this country or from other countries. That's what I was trying to get down to. Whether it was similar. Does, I guess, parental african culture go? No, no, I want my children to get a proper job, yes, full of security. Yeah, artist is just not there. As I say, we go back to that starving artist syndrome, and I just wanted to nail down whether it was similar in africa or cameroon specifically well, I'd say it's kind of like a global thing.

Speaker 2 4:57

You know, I I got a bit of it when I came here as well. I mean, like even established artists have asked me, like what do you want to do? And I'm like, you know, yeah, I do a job here and there, but then art is the main thing I like to take seriously, and you always have this look, you know, in their faces and you know it's it's kind of like a universal thing, but in some places it's more amplified.

Speaker 1 5:18

You know, I'd say so but again, I think it's just getting down to that point that it's not a, it's not a country, it's not a race thing. I think it's that starving artist thing that we always go back to being this worldwide problem. Yeah, it's interesting to me, having obviously no experience of growing up in an african community or whether that was the same, but it seems like that is. It doesn't matter where you're from in the world africa, china, asia, australia, england, america parents are not going to go.

Speaker 2 5:46

Oh yeah, I really want my kids to be an artist yeah, I mean sadly, that's sadly that that seems to be the norm. Well, I'd say it's sad because, you know, our very existence, you know, is based on the foundation of arts. I mean, without artists, I think the world would be a very boring place. There was a time where I was, I think, in my student days. I was in my room For some reason. I would always feel angry sometimes and I was wondering why, where is this anger coming from? And then one day I just decided to paint my room. So I painted one side a bright blue color. The other side was kind of orange. I painted the other side a different color and the other side a different color, and suddenly my mood changed Because I had to be creative, I had to do something to my environment, and that actually affected my mood. And this can be um emulated in so many things that we have around us. You know, we, you know, design our houses or the way we dress like you're saying about cameroonian fashion.

Speaker 2 6:56

Yeah, it's all bright colors, right exactly bright colors, you know, and all of that really affects the world. It makes the world a happy place. They have kept things. That's it. Yeah, so that's that's the world. It makes the world a happy place. A happy place, I'd say, yeah, so that's, that's the reality it really is, isn't it?

Speaker 1 7:08

yeah, well, should we go back then a bit and talk about what was growing up in cameroon, like what's your first experience of art and creating?

Speaker 2 7:18

yeah, that's a that's a good question. I think my first experience with art at least as far as I can remember, because my mom said I started drawing at the age of four. But I think I can remember maybe when I was 16 years old, I met a friend Well, he was much older than me and he did this drawing. I still remember it was a drawing of Sangoku. Yeah, like the character in dragon ball z okay yes, I might be showing my age there.

Discovering Passion for Art in Childhood

Speaker 2 7:50

I had no idea who that was. Dragon ball z yeah so he showed me the sketch. And when I saw that sketch, it's like, wow, this is amazing. And so I took it back home and then I tried to you know do the thing, spent hours and hours just looking at it, and I found joy, you know, in seeing that drawing and I think that was like my first encounter. You know where I knew inside of me like, wow, this is what I was born for. Wow, yeah, this is what I was born for.

Speaker 1 8:21

And yeah, the rest is history, but it's history that we want to go into.

Speaker 2 8:25

yeah of course, this is the podcast we're going to go into the history, of course, and I remember moments where my mom would tell me she said, when I was much younger, there was a time when my dad painted a wall of our house and I went to the kitchen I took like a charcoal and I came and did something on the wall. Okay, I mean in my mind I was creating a work of art, you know. I mean I saw the blank wall, the bright wall as my canvas and of course, my dad was so annoyed. Yeah, that was not the first time. I mean I'd always find mediums to express my creativity.

Speaker 2 9:05

So, moving forward in my primary school days, because, of course, back in Cameroon, after you start from nursery school, you have to go to primary school. I mean here it might be called differently, but you go to primary school and then you go to secondary school All very similar here. Yeah, high school and then go to university. So in my primary school days, you know I'd always participate in, you know, art programs, in any program we have in school. You know I would always stand out in my class, I mean like every single class. I would always start out as the artist.

Speaker 1 9:38

This one is, this is the creative one, you know and can you remember what sort of work you're creating at this point? I?

Speaker 2 9:43

mean, at that point in time it was mainly cartoons. You know, just like most children will do, you know, just draw cartoons, try to draw people. You know, just draw things. And even when I went to the secondary school, I remember I would always draw at the back of my book. I remember I would always draw things like it'd be like a huge house, like I'll imagine myself as a, you know, very wealthy man, you know a very rich man, and I'll like, I'll be like, okay, how can my house be? And I'll draw this, very, this massive house, of course, at the back of my book and I'll put like, maybe like 30 apartments in it. I'll be like, okay, this is where I'll park my helicopter, this, you know, at the top we'll have a swimming pool Down here, we'll have this, you know. So, anything I could just imagine, I would just put it there. Yeah, just, you know, create characters, just let my imagination run wild. And when I was in, I think from three, my mom told me about this program.

Speaker 2 10:42

A is sponsored by a drink company, one of the biggest drink companies we have in Cameroon, so it's called Brasseries to Cameroon. So they make like drinks, sweet drinks, you know, beer, and all of that. And so the organizers program. I think one of the it was one of the programs that they organized. Another one was called Top Cup and that was to help, you know, young people who were interested in playing football. So they'll like organize like a class, teach them how to play football. You know, organize like tournaments for them. And the other one was the artistic side of it. So they'll run this during the holidays and for you to get in there would be like an exam. You'd have to go there on this particular day and then you I mean they'll give you like a topic or something. They say, draw something, okay, and then it's like hundreds of people will come, like hundreds of people will come draw something, and then they'll select just a few.

Speaker 1 11:36

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 11:36

Yeah, they'll select like 30 out of hundreds Out of hundreds. You know they wanted kids who were really passionate about this thing, kids who already had. I mean, because if you're passionate about art, you would spend time to build your craft, to at least show some effort, and so they'll select just a few.

Speaker 1 11:55

Sorry, how old were you at this point?

Speaker 2 11:57

I think at that point in time I was 10 years old, I think 10 or 11 years old, so I got into this and so it would always run during the holidays, during the long-term holidays. So the first 10 holidays I got into level 1 of that program and I think remember we're about I think 14 in class Instructors would come. I remember one of my instructors, I mean very, very talented guy. He was a graphic designer and also an illustrator. Like he did like really cool drawings, even though his work was more tilted towards the cartoon side, but then even so, he was very accurate in his rendering, like he had an understanding of composition, anatomy, proportions and all of that. He was good and so I think that was like the first teacher who taught us and will teach us. You know some things, teach us, you know basics of art. I think that was the first time I started hearing about things like if you want to draw a person, you start with shape, like you do a circle for the head, and all of that.

Speaker 1 13:00

And up until this point you had art classes at school, but were you much more left to your imagination, as you say?

Speaker 2 13:07

Yeah, we didn't really have art classes in school. The only thing that we kind of had was like an arts club, Because in our secondary schools we'd have clubs but it wasn't part of the normal curriculum in other schools. And I'd say most of the clubs were not really, most of them were not really seriously active. We're not really serious in terms of their activities and running the activities and all of that again is that down to the fact that we don't take art.

Artistic Growth Through Education and Experience

Speaker 1 13:37

It's oh, that's more of a, exactly it's not, we're not going to gear someone actually how to do it as a profession. Yes, yes, so this guy in the saturday classes that you got through was actually teaching you things about proportion, about drawing, about skills.

Speaker 2 13:50

Yeah, they'll teach us that and then they'll give us like tools, you know, they'll give us pencils, erasers, they'll give us watercolors. I think that was the first thing we started with and, you know, when they teach us, they'll give us assignments. So it was a very exciting experience, you know, and I would always, I'll always, look forward to, you know, going there. And it was not just about just going there and just going. It was about, you know, being in the same room with all that creative mind and, as a result of that, it stimulated this aspect of, I'll say, healthy competition, because when you, with other colleagues, when you're doing the same thing, it brings out something in you. You just want to be the best, you want to be at the top. So that year, when we're done with all the classes, of course, we had like a fine art project. You had to do like something on maybe a3 size. You had to do like a painting, anything you wanted to do, so you would do it and then to organize like an exhibition, yeah, remember what you did.

Speaker 2 14:42

it's quite a long time ago now Long time ago, but I think it was a bear. So I saw this image at the back of a children's book. I did that image. I think I used watercolors and color pencil, so I believe I did a bear beside a lake and with some trees. Yeah, I think there were some other things in there, but as far as I can remember, I think that's I did. So we did this exhibition and you know they will now come invite our parents paint it on the walls, like I mean, like a pretty huge hall and so quite the experience for a young man, young artist girl.

Speaker 1 15:17

Wow, my work's been exhibited.

Speaker 2 15:18

It was it was a good experience I remember in in those classes you had to go through class one, class two, class three, class four, class five, okay, right, and so if you graduated from class one you had to move on to class two, right, next year, of course, during the holidays and so when, when I got in there, of course we had our works on the wall, and then you also also see those in class two, their works, and then the big guys I mean class five, you see they're like, oh my god, guys are amazing you noticeably see the difference in talent between the years different.

Speaker 2 15:49

Yeah and did that inspire you a lot. It did, and they would also award prizes. You know the top three going to be flat. So the first year I think I was third or second, and the second year I was first. Third year I was first. 30, I was first, 40 I was first, then 50 I was first as well.

Speaker 1 16:08

Wow, yeah, so yeah so it was really an amazing experience and in that time, as you progressed through the years, presumably they just gave you more and more advanced techniques to work on and learn. And yeah, see, yeah, so do you think that was quite that whole system of what you managed to get into through your art skill, which, we have to remember, you had to compete against hundreds and hundreds of people just to get into the first class yes you had to compete and that was the start of instilling that drive in you yeah, it did help.

Speaker 2 16:40

I remember even the second year when I was there, we graduated, they told us that, okay, if you want to get more. You know they were organizing like a camp. I think they called it Camp Artistic, that's in French, camp Artistic. So they were organizing that camp in the political capital of Cameroon, at Diawote. So what happened is that you had to go there and stay there for three weeks, so it was a very big building. So you meet, like other artists from different regions of cameroon, because those programs were according to regions, so each region had like a similar program. So those who are interested would have to like pay some money. You know, come and stay in that camp and then they'll bring some instructors. You know, I think we had like some instructors from france, oh wow so like an intensive three-week art camp.

Speaker 2 17:29

Yeah, yeah it was so nice. Like you wake up in the morning, you know, of course you do your chores. Everybody had chores to do. You do your chores and then you come, you eat your breakfast and then you go to the class. You have to choose, like whether you do watercolor painting, you know, do watercolor class or you do anatomy class. Or you do watercolor painting, watercolor class or you do anatomy class or you do music.

Speaker 1 17:48

And would you, throughout that three weeks, get to try other aspects, or did you have to stay in one?

Speaker 2 17:54

Yeah, you could try other aspects, but the thing they were aiming for was that they didn't want to fuck us. I chose what I wanted to do and you know we'll have the classes and sometimes they'll take us out. I think the first project that we did, they took us to this building. It was like a very huge, like a tin story building or so and then we'd like how do they call them? The wood, so you can climb on them.

Speaker 2 18:18

Scaffold, scaffold, yeah. So we got on those things and then we had to like do this big mural painting.

Speaker 1 18:24

So everybody had like a yeah, so we got on those things and then we had to do this big mural oh, inside of the building.

Speaker 2 18:29

Yeah, so everybody had a small portion. Yeah, so it was a good experience.

Speaker 1 18:33

What an experience, I mean it sounds like you've, as a young aspiring artist, got to experience more than actually most. I mean, I can't think of many art programs or things like that that we have here. It's just basic study system, whereas in Cameroon it sounds like they're really facilitating big projects you're doing, yeah, well.

Speaker 2 18:55

I will not say it's so. It's not about. It's not like Cameroon really promotes it. It's just one of those few programs that were organized by these few individuals, because the camp we went for it was in partnership with another organization, right and this organization was mainly headed by people, cameroonians, who had lived abroad for a long time and so they wanted to give back. I see, yeah, yeah, okay. Whether or not they were making profit from it, I mean, it's not of my concern no, it was giving you the drive.

Speaker 1 19:32

Giving you the drive, yeah, and the experience tuition, yeah, so you couldn't ask for more.

Speaker 2 19:37

So it was a very good opportunity. So you had to like, and they would always take us for events. You know, like when there's an event, an art event I remember there was like a comic event, you know, where people authors, illustrators, uh, comic book artists will come and exhibit their products and all of that, and they'll take us there just to have an experience, you know, to get meet those people, see the works and all of that. And so we meet some people from the art schools, model computer programs, uh, so you meet some people from the art schools and all the programs. So you have to be a friend.

Speaker 1 20:08

You know you have to select different techniques and, yeah, it was a very interesting experience and it's the work that you're creating at this time, still in that illustrative comic book genre, because I suppose we should really say I mean, I will include some images, some images of your work, but the work that we shared, the exhibition that was blue ballpoint pen solely. And the most beautiful sketch of the most beautiful woman.

Speaker 1 20:36

And that's sort of your style, right. I mean, you're a very capable artist in many, many formats it seems watercolors, oils. I've seen you do a lot of other stuff, but that's the stuff that really stood out to me. Can you talk to me about that, Because I see that from an illustrative background, not so much a comic book. It's much more realistic.

Speaker 2 20:56

The stuff that I see.

Speaker 1 20:58

So when did you start changing or developing that style with just the biro pen or the ballpoint pen, and when did it change from more comic book style to, as I say, those beautiful, more realistic portraits?

Speaker 2 21:14

yeah, so that that started in school, my secondary school days.

Speaker 1 21:19

Yeah, so oh of course you said drawing in the back of the back of my book being lessons. Paying attention, you've got a biro in your hand yeah, I mean, and that was it.

Speaker 2 21:27

It was a boring lesson, you know, yeah.

Artistic Growth and Recognition Globally

Speaker 2 21:29

so it's not like I wasn't taking school seriously, because I always did very well in school, but when it was a boring lesson I didn't like I would just just draw something on the back of my book yeah, with my, my biro, of course, that's what we used to write. And then there was a point where I saw some artist doing realistic work with Byro and I was like, wow, I could try something like this, I can do something with Byro. I remember that I was also inspired by this artist. His name is Enam Bosoka. He's a Ghanaian artist. Yeah, he's based in Ghana and he does some really amazing viral drawing okay, portrait, viral portrait drawings. And so when I saw that, I was like, well, I could do something with a viral, and so I started, you know, drawing. I think the first, one of the first ones I did was my portrait, a self portrait really yeah interesting so I think, yeah, I can share those photos with you.

Speaker 1 22:26

Oh, we'd love to see them and share them on the blog.

Speaker 2 22:28

So that was the first one, so I did like a drawing of myself, so I poured water on my face then. Then I did that you know, shared on social media, shared on Facebook. A lot of feedback. People were like, wow, he did this with a pen. And then I started doing other things and people paid me from time to time to do portraits of them so I'd do viral, give it to them. So, portrait drawing, portrait painting it was an easy way to make money as well, because as an artist, you wanted to earn money as well.

Speaker 1 22:59

So how old were you making money from selling these portraits? At that time I was like 15 years old, 15, already making money from your art.

Speaker 2 23:08

Yeah, 15 years old, I wouldn't say a lot of money, not a lot of money.

Speaker 1 23:12

But surely that's a nice feeling to make any money for any artist. Yeah, especially a 15-year-old artist.

Speaker 2 23:18

Yeah, so I think the first one I did was 15 years old and even before that, so I was just exploring this, this medium, uh, and yeah, and the technique has actually developed, you know, with um, throughout the years. When I started I was like I wanted to be sure, very detailed, like you know get like a photorealistic expression or resource. But as time went on on, the technique started getting better, I'd say, and I started making my lines more loose, more spontaneous, and I was more interested in captivating people's emotion. I didn't want to do a piece that you just look at and be like, oh, this is realistic, wow, wow, wow. That didn't really stand out for me anymore, so I just wanted to do something that would speak to the observer and is it always portraits, yeah.

Speaker 2 24:10

so at the start it was mostly portrait, and then when I got to lower seat opposite um, that was in the high school, before I got into the university I became more interested in illustration as well. There's always been this shift, I think. As an artist, it's always important to explore new fields. Many people make this mistake of saying I am this kind of artist, I'm good at painting, so I'll just stick with painting. What if you were meant to do something else? What if it could be better at this other medium? So there should always be room for experimentation.

Speaker 1 24:51

And you're quite lucky in that fact because presumably at these camps you're saying, you're getting to experiment with watercolours and different styles and different mediums. But throughout that were you always doing the Bayreuth ballpoint.

Speaker 2 25:04

No, at that point in time, especially during the camps and all of that, I wasn't really much into biro. Okay, yeah, I wasn't much into that During the camp days. I would just do what I was told to do. Yeah, like, if we're doing a class on, maybe, drawing portraits, I would do the class on portraits with a pencil.

Speaker 1 25:29

If we're painting, I'll use watercolors to paint. I'll just experiment with the whole thing. So what's the timeline in terms of when you see these people doing portraits? Is this after the camps? That was after the camp. So you've done all these camps. You've seen these incredible biro portraits by other artists after you've been doing all these other techniques. Yeah, that was after. Yeah, so where do we, where do we go from here? You're because you're doing these art camps. You're, you're now selling as a 15 year old or however, I was selling portraits that you're doing in biro. You're experimenting.

Speaker 1 25:58

Yeah, in your mind at this point, even though the attitude of, say, your parents or other cameroonian people towards being an artist, are you thinking, well, I want to be an artist, or are you thinking, no, I've got to still give all my studies to that quote-unquote, proper job. Yeah, that's a very good question. By the sounds of it, you're having a lot of success as an artist, and are your parents looking at you going, wow, he's doing these camps and he's doing this, or are they still wow, he's doing these camps and he's doing this, or are they still no? Engineer, accountant, banker proper job.

Speaker 2 26:26

Yeah, I mean, that's a very technical question. First of all, at the start, my parents, you know they recognized the art. When I started at that class, it was my mom who told me about it, so she heard about the opening and then she told me. So she recognized that talent in in you. They had always recognized the talents you know. Even your dad after you draw on his book my dad as well. Yeah, I mean my mom. My mom is a teacher, though she's actually currently doing her master's. She teaches at the primary school. I'll always help her with a lot of stuff, you know. But then, even though they recognize this talent, that they wanted me to be serious with my academics. But I'll say that my parents have been supportive.

Speaker 2 27:11

I hear that in a lot of people that we speak to.

Speaker 1 27:13

It's like our parents' generation want us to be safe. They want us to be secure and they see that Exactly so that's how they see it.

Speaker 2 27:20

Yeah, so that's how they see it, but I'll say that in terms of strategy, because when you see your child make good at something and you see that this child does exceptionally well in this field, I think it is your responsibility to find new research.

Speaker 2 27:40

Nurture that talent, nurture that talent, because I think sometimes our parents might recognize this thing but they don't know how to help. They know that, okay, this other channel going to school and becoming this is something they know, they have experience of, they have life experience, and so they want you to go towards that direction, and I don't blame them for that. So, yeah, so that's how it's been. And even in the midst of that, I have always been a very stubborn person. Yeah, I'd say stubborn because when I recognised that, okay, this is what I want to do, of course I was still going to school. I mean, I know a lot of that because I did recognise the importance of education. But I would also always make time, you know, for my art. So when there are exhibitions or art opportunities, I would always take advantage of them. And so when I started.

Speaker 1 28:27

How were you finding those opportunities? Was that just through the community that you'd met the camps and all those sorts of things?

Speaker 2 28:33

Yeah, some of them was through the communities, the people I met, some of them, and there was a time where I started researching online for international opportunities. So there was this competition. It was a global competition and it was called the High Art Contest. So I got into that competition and I did this, drawing this illustration of I think it was about five cultural figures. We called them masquerade. So I mean, I took my time to work on that illustration and when I submitted this illustration, the entry was accepted and then after some time I think it was like after a month, you know when the result I mean it was a global competition with thousands of submissions and they only needed 20 winners, just 20. And each winner had a cash prize. I think, like the first person had like a thousand dollars. Wow, yeah.

Speaker 2 29:32

So, to my greatest surprise I remember this day I think it was like a morning I just opened my email and I saw a notification and I saw congratulations, you made it to the top 20. I was like, wow, you know, I, I mean I I can't explain the joy I felt, you know, having my work recognized and I think I got, was it? I got like 600 dollars, but wow, yeah, I think that was the. I was 19. No, in that competition, top 20 out of the world, yeah, in the world. So, from all the submissions and it was a very tough competition Like, if you see the works I mean the works by the other artists were so amazing really, yeah, so that was where I started, you know, getting exposed to the international opportunity.

Speaker 1 30:20

And also being recognized globally. Yes, yes Must be it was amazing.

Speaker 2 30:26

And it didn't end there. The next year 2020, I got into another competition. I think that was during the COVID period, you know, okay, and that year as well, in the midst of the lockdown. During that period, we also had, like, some problems in Cameroon. There was a war, so I mean, a lot of people died during that time, wow. So it was a conflict between the government and a group mostly from the English-speaking side of Cameroon. So it was the discrimination against the English-speaking Cameroon and all of that. It caused a lot of problems. I think that started during my university days, when I was 2017.

Speaker 1 31:08

Because at university you didn't study art, did you?

Speaker 2 31:11

Yeah, so, yeah, the first thing I did was computer science. Yes, so you know, finished 2017, even though in that war and I'll just come back to the 2020. Yeah, 2020,. When I got into that competition, there was still lockdown, of course, during that time, because of the COVID. So lockdown, of course, during that time, because of the COVID. So I got into this competition.

Speaker 2 31:29

It was organized by the United Nations and by the United Nations Refugee Agency. So they were doing this global contest to allow people to submit their work. So it didn't matter whether you were an artist or whatever. So they wanted you to create work, peace because during that period, a lot of refugees around the world were neglected. They couldn't receive food aid. They couldn't receive food aid, they couldn't receive support because of all the restrictions and all of that. So they wanted to create a piece of art that would inspire people to support these refugees, create art that would amplify this message to show these refugees in this vulnerable situation. To amplify this message, to show these refugees in this vulnerable situation.

Speaker 2 32:07

So I did an illustration of this group of refugees who were in the midst of war and then there was like a helicopter from distance coming, you know, with aid. So I did this illustration and then I represented the COVID as this plague, you know, that had come into the world. But then when I submitted, I became, I submitted, I won the competition. Actually, I did win the competition because there were, I think, five or seven global winners yes, I was one of the winners and each of them was from different countries Germany, france, usa, one from Cameroon, I think there were two from Cameroon. Actually, it was so amazing the feeling I had, you know, to get this level of recognition.

Speaker 1 32:52

I was going to say, along this journey you've had quite a lot of recognition from your work, early competition wins, being accepted onto these art camps and these projects and things like that.

Speaker 1 33:01

But this is what takes me back to 2017, when you're still going to university, but presumably under the guise of, you know, your parents wanting you to get that education you took to computer science, is it? Yeah, you haven't had the 2020 accolade, but you've had lots of previous accolades. I'm just wondering what your mindset is when you're going to university to do computer science? But, yeah, you've already been quite recognized for the talent that you've got as an artist. Were you slightly disgruntled that you were going to university to study computer sciences as opposed as opposed to art and creativity? I was.

Speaker 2 33:39

I was um you know, I had the option to do other things you to study art. But then the problem was I didn't want to study art in Cameroon. Because I just didn't believe that we had good schools. Because I saw people, I saw hard-working people in school in Cameroon. I just didn't want to go there. I just didn't want to study art in Cameroon. I wanted to maybe study art and design. I just wanted to study to study art and design. I just wanted to study out of the country. So I brought that option to my parents and we looked at it and we tried to go through scholarships and all of that. The fees were too much. The fees were so much.

Speaker 1 34:22

Where were you looking In UK Europe?

Speaker 2 34:24

Yeah, I was looking in the UK, I was looking at America.

Speaker 1 34:27

And as foreign students, then you have to pay a lot more for your tuition fees.

Navigating Challenges in Pursuit of Art

Speaker 2 34:30

A lot of money. Yeah, my parents just didn't afford it, and so I had no choice. So I was lucky. I was too confident. That's one of the subjects I did very well at when I was in high school, and I also saw it as a way to incorporate the digital side into my art.

Speaker 1 34:52

Explore you know this science in a different form, and did you get to do much of that within the computer science degree, or was it slightly different to you? Thought it would be?

Speaker 2 35:02

I got to do a lot, but then there were a lot of things that happened that make it grow here. We have planned for it. You know, to go officially, the crisis that we had in from the room. So when they started like we couldn't continue with classes, all the instability. I remember when we started we were about 30 of us in class and by the time we finished we we were 10. Wow, yeah, I mean, some of my classmates left the country, some stopped totally. How were you feeling at that point?

Speaker 1 35:34

Were you mixed up in any of these conflicts, or were you just trying to be a student?

Speaker 2 35:38

There's a lot of things going on in my mind. Honestly, it was a tough period. Yeah, it was a tough period.

Speaker 1 35:43

Can you talk more about that? Yeah, are you seeing friends, family or people you know affected by this?

Speaker 2 35:49

yeah, I mean I presumably the whole country is affected by the whole country. Three it was mostly the english-speaking regions, because that's where the war was actually going on. Most people in their friend side had no idea what's going on, like they just knew that. Okay, these guys are fighting and where are you based?

Speaker 1 36:05

sorry, Sorry, in the geographical area. Are you in the French or are you in the English?

Speaker 2 36:07

No, at that time I was in the English region, which is the northwest and the southwest regions of Cameroon. So that's the English region. So I was in the southwest region of the States.

Speaker 1 36:18

So directly affected by all of this.

Speaker 2 36:20

Directly affected, even though it was more intense in local areas, like in the villages. Yeah, so the walls were more intense there. I mean, lots of people died, lots of people, lots of people died, you know, innocent people, homes were burned down, children were killed. It was very sad. I had friends who lost their, their parents, who lost all their friends, who lost their brothers and sisters. I even have some family members who were affected.

Speaker 2 36:50

You know, at that point in time, you know, sometimes we would go to the village, you know like, especially during Christmas period, like we'd go there, you know put, you know, palm fronds, you know, create like canopies and they would sit together as a community and just prepare food and just have a great time. But we couldn't do that anymore because the villages became desolate. People left the villages, people died and you know a lot of people as well, like younger people, like joined separatist groups, you know. Yeah, so a lot of things happened. You know, during that period I was caught in this dilemma of should I continue with my studies, should I do master's, where should I go to? You know, where do I go from here, and all of that. So it was a very difficult period, honestly, especially to me, my mind, and see what was going on, and that was 2017.

Speaker 2 37:39

So 2018, my parents, we moved to another. We moved to the French region because, of course, it was safer there. So we moved to the French region because, of course, it was safer there. So we moved to the French region and we stayed there, you know, for a year. My parents stayed there for a year and then, from there, did you feel safer there?

Speaker 1 37:57

did you feel more settled there, or was this an area you know you've moved? It was safer. It's nothing, you know.

Speaker 2 38:02

Yeah, it was safer, but I didn't like the place. Honestly, I didn't like the place. It was. You couldn't explore a lot. It was. If I didn't like the place, honestly I didn't like it it was. You couldn't explore a lot. It was a very local area, few houses around there, very scanty.

Speaker 1 38:14

I mean it's not like a city where you could go there, you get opportunities and all of that are you producing any art at this time, I mean, or is your mind just not in the place where you want to, or is your mind in a place where it's affecting the art that you're creating?

Speaker 2 38:29

I was producing art mainly for commercial work. I would get projects time to time. I was working as a freelancer as well.

Speaker 1 38:37

Okay, can you say more about some of those projects? Yeah, what sort of projects did you get In illustration?

Speaker 2 38:42

Okay, children's illustrations. I would get project comic book illustrations.

Speaker 1 38:49

Again, how okay.

Speaker 2 38:49

Children illustrations I'll get project comic book illustrations again.

Speaker 1 38:51

How is this just through the arts community? Yeah, that was online before you went to yeah to um. Oh, online you're getting.

Speaker 2 38:54

I was online I'll get things to watch online, so I I like I was working for like some of those freelancing sites like pop work okay yeah, yeah they didn't. Yeah, and, and you know, the response I got to the work was it was really nice. I mean to the point where I even became a top reader. You know, straight on artwork brilliant yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 1 39:14

So I really made a lot from from there, so you've really, you've really pushed your artwork but yet still you were studying computer sciences ticking the box yeah, so, yeah, so it's always been like that.

Speaker 2 39:27

Then.

Speaker 1 39:28

So how did that sit then? You know you've moved to the French region of Cameroon. You don't feel settled, you don't like the place. Where do we go from there?

Speaker 2 39:39

So from there I went to another university, so I moved to, I moved back to the northwest region of Cameroon because I just didn't like the place. I wanted to just go out there and just explore and just do something with the arts. So I met with this friend and we decided to move to the political capital of Cameroon, that's Yaoundé. So I met with this friend. He's into movies, so he makes movies, to stay on the note of that, and it was still starting at the time, you know. So we decided to, you know, get poor, some money. So I brought some money from my parents, we went there, rented a house. Wrong approach we rented a house, we pinned the rents so we paid like three months, no chairs, nothing, we just had a mattress, a bed.

Speaker 2 40:24

I mean, I'm talking about moving to a new city. You know, yawn is a big city. You know, in the city you don't know anybody. I've never, you know, gone to a place before. I've never stayed alone on my own, all right. So I went there with this guy, with this friend. We stayed in that apartment every day. We'll just go out, just try to attend a program, you know. Try to do maybe live drawings, you know, try to make the money yeah, almost what doing street art, starbush game, I mean like literally we didn't know anybody, right?

Speaker 2 40:55

because it's different when you at least know people, when you at least know where you are. At least I'm here, I know that. Okay, maybe exhibit the gallery. I can sum it up with polls. I can not do this, but there you're not that way of the opportunity. So you have to first of all try to go out there and know people and find out what opportunities are out there and figure things out. Because trying to figure things out.

Speaker 1 41:18

Was that exciting or nerve-wracking?

Speaker 2 41:20

ah it was nerve-wracking, it wasn't, it wasn't exciting. I mean, before I left I was like, oh, it's exciting. I mean it's like you know, when there it was very difficult. So at some point I just realized that the environment was not conducive. It wasn't conducive at all. And so I now left Yaoundé and went to Bamenda, and then I got into a program. So I went back into the university. So there was this special program that the Department of Art was doing. So they wanted more people to get into the department. So they were doing a special program where they would condense the curriculum for arts and art history into a single year.

Speaker 2 42:04

So when I was in Bermuda, I opened a studio there, so with another friend, and he was doing photography and all of that and printed all my work. At that time, of course, I started doing my pen portraits, you know, put it on the wall. Well, I had a small gallery displayed as well. So, and my friend set up his studio at the back. You know, he had his camera and all of that, so so we rented his place and, yeah, he was going well, I mean, I would not say too well, because that area still had his own challenges. Remember, we're also in the midst of the crisis, literally every day.

Speaker 1 42:38

He had gone shot, my cool chef, because you've moved back to yeah, yeah, like you'll be going to school and you're going short.

Speaker 2 42:46

You're going school. Military cars are passing every day. You know every five minutes a car passes. Sometimes you go, sometimes you can see like the dead best in the world you know somebody. So you had all those challenges, you know.

Speaker 1 43:00

And you're there trying to be creative.

Speaker 2 43:03

Trying to be creative. So one day there was this lecturer from this department, visual arts and artistry so he was passing by and he saw the studio and he was like wow so my friend called me.

Speaker 1 43:53

He knew you, he was he didn't know me, he didn't know you he yeah, so you weren't on this course at this point, at that point, I wasn't on this course. Oh, I see. So this is how you get onto the right yeah.

Speaker 2 44:03

So he just came sort of stood out like wow, and then like he was so impressed with what he saw, and then he told me about the opportunity. Oh, I see, he told me okay, I would like you to call department. I was like why not, you know? So I got into the department visual art and artistry how does it work for students out there?

Speaker 1 44:20

you Do, you have to pay for this, for the year yeah of course, you have to pay.

Speaker 2 44:23

Yeah, you have to pay, but the fees were not too much. I mean fees, university fees are not a lot. The government also tries to get some incentive so that everybody's able to have a report for university. That's great, yeah, unless you're talking about things like masters, because some masters programs are really costly. I mean, I was making some money, so I paid my studies there. You know, completed a program while we're still managing the studio. What?

Speaker 1 44:53

do you think that program sort of did for you and the inclusion of art history within that, I mean? I mean you've got a love of art but you haven't studied art. In that sense, yeah.

Speaker 2 45:04

I'd say the program helped me, but it wasn't as effective as I thought it was going to be, and I think it was also because of the crisis as well.

Speaker 1 45:15

What in terms of you're not able to learn the way you normally would because of everything that's going on.

Speaker 2 45:23

Sometimes it wasn't safe to do practicals and all of that. So it mostly helped me in the side of understanding the importance of art history and also how to analyze art. I remember there was this post that we did where you would have to even think to describe. It was called visual art criticism. It taught me how to, because that was something I always wanted to learn. Like I'm like kind of part of the art and just explain and say, okay, this is the colors, this is the composition and all of that. I was like so I wanted to learn that. So when I did that course I was so excited I mean, if this is the only course for this program, I'll be happy.

Transitioning From Art in Cameroon

Speaker 1 46:04

So I did it and it really helped me um, are you creating as well within this course, or is it more just a theory of art and art history, mostly theory? Okay, yeah, it's mostly theory, but I think you know you've had a lot of practical experience on your journey up to this. Yes, yeah, you know competition, workshops, camps, yeah, accolades, even selling your work as a 15 year old getting a bit old as having your own gallery space with your friend that you're putting your pieces in. Yeah, I mean, as I say, you've gained quite a lot of art experience for someone that hasn't actually geared their career towards art yeah, honestly, as compared to my other poet, they were.

Speaker 1 46:44

Yeah, I think I'm comparing you to a lot of artists that I know in this country, in other countries that I know, yeah, and you've, but I think that's down to you and your dedication to your art and wanting to really push yourself yeah, I've always been very pushful.

Speaker 2 46:59

Yeah, I mean that's one thing I know about myself. I'm always veryful, especially when it comes to my art. I mean that's why I came to the UK in the first place.

Speaker 1 47:09

Okay, Should we talk about that? How did you come to be in the UK? Have we jumped forward At the end of this art year, this art history? Where are you there?

Speaker 2 47:19

You've still got a gallery with your friends. Yeah, I was done with my studies there, so I thought to myself it's time to move out of Bamenda, because I mean, it was not just the right environment anymore. I mean, what was going on and all of that when the electric was out sometimes you have electricity from 7 am to 12, and then you take it away. So it was some of the challenges we had. So I moved out of there, went toounde, back to yaounde, so I was renting an apartment there. Of course, I was doing my illustration and all of that, my online work and uh yeah, so I didn't stay very long in yaounde. I think I just did like a couple of years but at this point you're making your.

Speaker 1 48:06

Your source of income is from your freelance artwork. Yes, that was an illustration work that was the main source of multi. It's not from your computer science degree. No, it's not.

Speaker 2 48:15

It's not from the computer side. I've made good money, like for an average number, you know, and even with the opportunities I had, even the competition I won, this one led to other opportunities. It led me to other projects with them where they actually paid me like millions of Cameroonian currency. So it really helped me to do a lot of things. So when I went back to Yaoundé, I made about two years there and then before I traveled, before coming here I'll get to that. So while in Yaoundé, an idea came to me why not run a workshop, like run an art workshop or teach them straight to skip the art? So immediately, I remember I was sitting at my table, I mean, the idea just came up like I mean it's time to do this. So the next week I left, went back to the southwest region and then got a friend, you know, a friend who also does art, got my brothers, some of my younger brothers, so I got them together, planned the workshop yeah, you know, went, printed flyers and since it was the first workshop we were doing, we had to break the barrier.

Speaker 2 49:27

What I mean is, remember, we have this environment of not welcoming such things and especially when you're doing something like that for the first time parents want to trust you.

Speaker 2 49:35

They were like should I send my kids to you? You have to convince the parents to allow their kids to come to the workshop. So what we did was that we saw that just putting this thing online was not going to be enough and of course we put like a small fee, because of course you had to buy a lot of things materials, and I also had to pay those that were drinking for their time. And so here's how we did that, for basically we went to more than 100 homes, like physically went to more than 100 homes and remember this was still the period of the lockdown, even though it wasn't as intense. But we went to like different streets, like knocked the door, okay, spoke to the parents, gave the flyer and they would always ask this question how much? You really was a small fee, but then I mean trying to convince somebody to spend money for this it's something they didn't really believe much in, people to get them to spend that money that goes back to the starving artist.

Speaker 1 50:36

Why?

Speaker 2 50:36

do I pay for my kid to do an art when I want them? To be an engineer, yeah yeah, so we went there at the end of the day we had 15 kids for the workshop, so we trained them, taught them some skills and all of that. After some time we did an exhibition invited parents.

Speaker 1 50:55

So similar to how you came through you giving back.

Speaker 2 50:58

Yeah, yeah Was that rewarding. It was very rewarding, very nice, so we invited parents to came, had a good time, spoke about the art. The kids playing spoke about the art, for the kids playing spoke about their art. You know that means very nice gift certificates. You know just something to show that you're part of part of something like this before and it was very fulfilling well, look what that did for you.

Speaker 1 51:18

Yeah, then you know, your mum finding those courses for you to go, competitions and camps and things like that yeah, that's wonders for you and your eyes.

Speaker 2 51:26

So you guys giving back yeah, so it's been pretty special and I think that was that was a year I started making plans to you know.

Speaker 1 51:34

Move to the uk okay, so talk to me about that. Why the uk as opposed to you? Know, when you were looking to study, you were looking in other european countries, america, even. Why the uk?

Purpose and Artistic Expression

Speaker 2 51:45

So I'll just start with how the opportunity came. First of all, the opportunity was presented to my dad, who learned about the opportunity to come to the UK as a healthcare assistant because it was affiliated to the visa, to the work visa, because the UK government they needed more international workers, because there was a deficit of workers in the health sector. My dad told me and he was like this is going to be a good opportunity for you to go there for your arts. I was like why not? Because I've always been a person of purpose. If something doesn't align to what I believe is my purpose, you know it doesn't align. Even if it's a good opportunity, I wouldn't take it, you know. So I just thought that at that point in time I just thought like cameroon wasn't the right place for me.

Speaker 1 52:39

Oh, at this point, what do you believe your purpose is?

Speaker 2 52:42

well, uh, my purpose is in line with the art, right? But then there is something I always believe. I believe everybody is born to express, you know, the duty of the creator, because there is a that resonates with me, that I really love so much, that says that you are God's workmanship. So I always believe that everybody on this earth is created for a purpose and that purpose is not maybe going to, you know, having a successful career, getting married, having a good family, and then, you know, dying, and it ends. It ends there. That, for me, it doesn't sound like something of purpose to me. You know, when I think of people like, you know, mother teresa, you know martin rooker, you know those were purpose-driven people, the people who fought for something. Either it's for the betterment of humanity or it's to solve a problem. You know, sometimes your purpose could just be change some lives, you know, to make some people's lives better.

Speaker 1 53:52

So I've always thought about that. It's interesting you come up from a religious standpoint, but I people on the podcast be bored of hearing this. Your talent plus helping people yeah, of course. Your purpose, yeah so that's sort of what I've interpreted from that scripture. You think the talents that you're ordained with, yeah, you need to, yeah, highlight and pass forward and that's what you, you know, yeah workshops.

Speaker 2 54:14

You've been doing that throughout your whole artistic career yeah, and I think that should resonate with, uh, our actions. You know, everything you do should resonate to you know, should resonate with your purpose. So, if I'm coming here doing my artwork, if I make money from the art, what do I do? Am I supposed to organize more workshops for kids to grow, or am I supposed to share opportunities with other people? Am I supposed to make people's lives better? Yeah, that kind of thing, and that's why I always believe that you spoke about coming from this standpoint, because I believe, I mean, it's true, everybody works with a purpose, right, everybody's doing something, everybody has an agenda and, whether or not you know what that agenda is, you are working with an agenda and you might just find out at the end of the maybe at the end of 50 years or 40 years or whatever it is, that we're not on the right agenda. We're wasting a lot of time. I mean, I've spoken to a lot of people and I said why are you here, like I don't know.

Speaker 2 55:22

I mean, same things are like you don't know who you are, you know, and for me it's troubling, you know.

Speaker 1 55:28

so just getting back to coming here, so, you were looking at the working healthcare visa, not to work in healthcare, but more for your art.

Speaker 2 55:39

Yeah, so that was a bigger picture. That's what.

Speaker 1 55:41

I was seeing.

Speaker 2 55:42

So that was December 2022. So I came over to the UK. So that was December 2022. So I came over to the UK. So I got into the country and, you know, started working in the healthcare sector where did you?

Speaker 1 55:53

did you come to Birmingham straight away?

Speaker 2 55:55

the flight landed in London, then took a bus, you know, came to Birmingham but the job that you had lined up was always in Birmingham yes, in Birmingham. Job that you had lined up was always in birmingham. Yes, in birmingham.

Speaker 1 56:06

So that's how I started this so what did you have to do for this job? Because again, presumably in the back of your mind, you're going I want to produce art. But then, once again, you bravely picked yourself up, put you into a whole new environment environment climate, everything, and then going in to do a full-time job, to be in healthcare because of your visa.

Speaker 2 56:31

Yeah, it's a new feel. I mean, healthcare is not something I've really done professionally before, even though of course I've helped family members. Of course you've had people who've been sick, you help them out and all of that. I mean we have that culture back home. But then when I moved here, I mean getting to do the job. Of course I didn't know that it is linked to my visa, and so I have to make sure that I fulfill all of the requirements of the job first of all, not before anything else, and that's what I've been doing. And so when I'm not working on the job, all right, I see how to strategize with my art, how to get into positions how to get myself out there and prepare the ground and how did you find that?

Speaker 1 57:15

moving to the UK, did you find that there was more opportunities for art? Because you've done lots of group shows. That's how we've met. You've won prizes. You've really pushed your art despite being in that full-time job, which shows me again the drive that you have towards your purpose. Yeah, did you find the opportunities different in the uk?

Speaker 2 57:36

yeah, of course it's different. There's more opportunities. There was more. Oh yeah, of course more, and even from a global standpoint, because I mean, and if you have to ship your work, you can easily do that. Anyway, I've never been on a residency before, but if you have to go for a residency you can easily do that, process your visa, but it's not easy to do that from Cameroon, right, you have all those kind of things, you know.

Speaker 1 58:02

So, yeah, obviously here opportunities are more more pronounced as compared to tamerun yeah, so can you tell me a bit what sort of opportunities are presenting themselves to you, what are you doing with your art and how are you feeling because your time is now being monopolized by a full-time job?

Speaker 2 58:22

yeah. So that's, that's a good question. I mean, I know that it's just going to be for a moment. I mean what I'm going through right now, just going to be for a moment and despite having to back up this idea of mine that I'm doing something that I'm not supposed to do, or but I just know that that that's what makes makes the challenges and the experiences, that's just what makes us who we are, and I just think that it is another opportunity for me to just learn. I mean just to learn and to see how I can fight my way to the next level. So I just see everything as an opportunity, because I know that there are so many people who are in a worse satisfied than I am.

Speaker 2 59:10

It's something to be grateful for.

Speaker 1 59:11

Yeah, there's an element of gratitude.

Speaker 2 59:13

Yeah, it's an element of gratitude, and I would say that one of the things that really keeps me going, too, is the people that I meet, because I've met a lot of people. I mean being able to meet people. I mean meeting you, of course, just coming on your podcast and talking to you. Earlier on, you showed me some painting, you showed me some of your work and all of that. I really found that very inspiring. And just sitting with you as well, all the experience you've gotten, photography and all of that and all the things that you've done For me it's something to be grateful for well, I'm very grateful that you agreed to sit down with the podcast.

Speaker 1 59:50

I think your story is fantastic. You're just, you're just being overweight, but no, I do appreciate that. But, as I say, that's why I find doing the podcast so interesting, because you get to meet so many interesting people with so many different backgrounds, histories that have all got at the crux. Yeah, some sort of inspiring story or some sort of creativity or some sort of something that gets me that I want to know more about, and that's all it is. Just, yeah, allowing people to tell their story. And I think, man, this is, this is an interesting story. So you're working full-time. What are the sort of aspirations now for your art? What are the goals? What would you like to achieve? What is the next step for you?

Speaker 2 1:00:30

So the next step is trying to get into the art space fully. What I mean by that is, obviously, with my current job. Of course, there's a lot of restrictions with time, certain things you cannot do, but then I'm working on a visa switch because I I learned a visa that is more, I'll say more related to what I'm doing, called the global talent visa. So this visa is actually for creative individuals, because there's two of them there's the video, there's one for the tech, another one for the creative arts, you know agriculture, so I'm trying to work on that and this visa has, you know, a lot of documents, requirements that you have to fulfill, because obviously that instantly for me sits much more with you than a health care visa yeah, to emphasize, yeah, that'll be much that'll be ideal.

Speaker 1 1:01:20

So, and are you on a timeline for that? When does the visa that you're currently on stop and when would you have to have your global talent visa application? And are you on a timeline for that? When does the visa that you're currently on stop and when would you have to have your Global Talent Visa application? I think about six, seven months from now.

Speaker 2 1:01:34

Oh, wow that quickly. Yeah, six, seven months from now. I've told you it has to be renewed, but obviously I have to do the application way before that would expire.

Speaker 1 1:01:43

So are you in the process of that now?

Speaker 2 1:01:46

Yes, I'm in the process of putting the documents together and all of that. So once I have everything together then I'm going to make the application by April latest April.

Speaker 1 1:01:56

How are you feeling about that? Because obviously is that quite nerve-wracking having all your future in the hands of someone else.

Speaker 2 1:02:04

Yeah, yeah it is. I just want to remain hopeful and I do believe that having that needle would really help, because this is not to sound full boastful, but then I just believe there is a lot that is inside of me in terms of expression, things that people have never seen before, in terms of my art and all of that, but I just believe that there is a lot more. I can do a lot more excellent that I can display. You know, given the opportunity and the time, and what will that visa allow?

Speaker 1 1:02:37

if you're on a global talent visa, will they give you some sort of funding to accentuate that talent that you've got, or how does that work?

Speaker 2 1:02:45

yeah, so the global talent visa has just very few restrictions, but then with that visa you can get any job you want to get. One of the requirements, too, is that you must be consistent with your practice. Even if you get the job in any way you want to get, you must be consistent with your practice. You can start a business if you want to. You can move in and out of the country. You know maybe you're going for a residency, you're going for, you know, art programs and all that. You can go anytime you want to go.

Speaker 1 1:03:14

Well, I'm a firm believer in words having power. So when you get this visa, what will be your plan?

Speaker 2 1:03:21

So, first of all, when I get the visa, I like to organize some solo exhibitions, create large-scale paintings, because, of course, when I get it I'll have enough time. I'll have a lot of time.

Speaker 1 1:03:34

So, paintings.

Speaker 2 1:03:35

not, I'll do paintings and drawings. Paintings and drawings. Yeah, I mean I'm not going to stop the viral drawings that have a place in my heart.

Speaker 1 1:03:43

But you want to explore more than you just got.

Speaker 2 1:03:45

More, yeah, so I've always been doing painting and drawing as well. Yeah, I just like it's just a medium way to express my creativity, you know. So I like that.

Speaker 1 1:03:54

I saw some really beautiful stuff on your social media, really bold colors. I don't know, yeah but it was interesting for me because obviously a lot of the words that I've seen is your ballpoint biro work and then I was like wow look at the colors and vibrancy and that brilliant amazing, yeah, that's why I was interested in the color of the print earlier.

Speaker 2 1:04:11

Interesting, yeah, I'm just trying to see how I can incorporate that. So I like to do like very lads still solo exhibitions, portraits. Still, though, would you have a topic, not portrait? Oh interesting well, it's going to have portrait, but contemporary arts, you know, like contemporary portrait, you know something that will tell a story okay, what?

Speaker 1 1:04:31

what do you mean by contemporary portraits? Obviously, I know what a portrait is, but what I'm trying to get to is, like, what are you trying to express what's in your head?

Speaker 2 1:04:41

yeah, so I'm very interested in talking about world issues, things that are happening in the society, whether it's what is going on in Cameroon, the war I told you about during the time, expressing that in a pity, expressing ideas like hope. And I also like to express aspects of my culture, cameroonian culture, aspects of my culture, cameroonian culture, aspects of that culture, and also include aspects of the British culture, the culture where, of course, I live here in the UK, and I'll incorporate that as well. Of course my skin is brown, you know. So express those stories. I think that I'm doing it the contemporary style. Of course I like doing realistic work, but then I also like old color blocks and all of that, you know.

Speaker 2 1:05:33

So it's just a way of just adding to my painting that aspect of spontaneity that I have with my viral pin, my viral drawing as well, because in my, my barrel drawings, I aim for continuity, I aim for motion. You know the review I get most people. They tell me that when they see the barrel drawing it makes them want to come closer. You know, when they start from a distance it looks like this perfect figure, but then when they come closer, you know, the lines tell them a different story. The lines are crossed in different directions and you see some sort of struggle and you see how that struggle comes together to make something beautiful.

Speaker 2 1:06:12

And so I just like to incorporate different ideas of what message I like to pass on with my painting, and I just think that I can't express that alone. Just the viral drawings. Of course the viral drawings have their place, but then if I want to be more expressive in terms of color, the viral drawings have their place, you know. But then if I want to be more expressive in terms of colour, in terms of, like you know, ingredients and all of that, then I just think solo exhibitions with contemporary paintings, you know, would be very helpful.

Speaker 1 1:06:39

I think that's interesting. It's a representing of a struggle and I think we talk a lot about on the podcast, about how we're a product of our inputs. Yeah, we can only output what we've experienced in our inputs. Man, you've got a lot of experiences there. I really love the idea of expressing world issues because in the particular lies the universal, in the sense that the issues that you and I both go through somewhere in the mix will be exactly we're humans, exactly we all go through those issues, all through those things. Yeah, I can't wait to see how that manifests yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 2 1:07:13

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it, I can tell.

Speaker 1 1:07:15

I can tell you you're excited when you're talking about it, although it must be hard to explain a project to someone that you haven't really managed.

Speaker 2 1:07:22

Yeah, and got your teeth into, yeah that a lot I can offer in terms of the culture of the United Kingdom. I mean, that's one of the requirements of the visa I spoke about as well being able to contribute to the culture. So I just think that there is a lot that I can contribute here. I am an artist from a very tough background, humble background, trying to get to the point where he can create freely and being able to express himself without any limitations.

Speaker 1 1:07:51

In your time spent in the UK. What do you feel like some of the issues that you might want to address visually might be?

Speaker 2 1:08:00

Oh, that's a very good question. One of the things I'd like to express is I mean, in the UK, I realise there's a lot of mental health issues. I think this comes from the fact that a lot of people have become so isolated. We humans, we are not meant to be isolated. We are meant to work in groups. We are meant to interact with each other. We're a social beast. We're a social being. Yeah, like you rightly said. So that's one of the issues I like to express in my paintings.

Speaker 1 1:08:36

So you see mental health as an issue in the UK. Is it not so much in Cameroon? And if so, why not? Do you think? What parallels do you draw?

Speaker 2 1:08:45

When I say mental health issues like when I was in cameroon back home, I've never heard about you know things like like we'll talk about dementia. I never heard of the term dementia back home. I don't know anybody who has dementia back home. I've never heard about it wow, that interesting.

Speaker 1 1:09:05

Yeah, so that's got to be lifestyle.

Speaker 2 1:09:08

Yeah, because we eat more healthy. I'll say it's a fact Because almost everybody has a fan Most of our products are organic, Because I mean here most of the food that we buy. We are mainly in sachets like boxes and all of that processed food, but most of what we consume back home is organic, so it's more natural, it's more helpful to the body. So I think that's one of the things that you know might contribute to that healthy.

Speaker 1 1:09:36

You know feeding yeah, I'm a big component about the stuff we put in our bodies now. Yeah, it just seems like a no-brainer to me that that is the root cause of most of people's illnesses. I'm not a doctor for anyone listening to this, and that's just my personal opinion commenting on anyone's health in any way, but that's interesting in terms of the natural foods that we eat in cameroon, and never heard of dementia before you came here. That's crazy, never heard of dementia.

Speaker 2 1:10:05

Wow, honestly, I'd heard about autism just one or two cases there, but it was still very rare. You know, it's still very rare and I would say I mean the the uk is a very nice place in terms of, I'd say, attempt of development and you know it's very developed if you go to cameroon, a lot of african countries, because it's very different and that's what happens when you don't have systems that have been put into place to address some of these issues. Here. I think that people have done a great job in setting up systems that work.

Speaker 2 1:10:39

If you speed on the road, you go too fast, a speed camera gets you and maybe you're fine. If you park in the wrong place, you're fine, you know. If you express some kind of aggressive behavior in public, you know the law comes into place. So I think that here that job is well done. But you know, the area that I would just like to expect is more interaction. But we're planning to get all the nice mock programs that you can just come and talk, share the experiences and just bring out that. Well, what word can I use?

Speaker 1 1:11:13

yeah, but you know what I mean. Yeah, that community, the sense that we're all in this together we're all human beings no matter what background we come from, no matter what economic status. What ethnicities yeah? We're all human beings with blood pumping through our veins and hearts anyway, for those asking that okay, why is people?

Speaker 2 1:11:31

why are we talking about this thing, one of the things that is part of the art? If I were to ask you, when was the last time you spoke to your neighbour? You know how often do you see them?

Speaker 1 1:11:41

I see what you mean. I'm very lucky with me and my neighbours. We're quite close and we always chat. But I understand exactly what you said there is no sense of community. There is no sense of community, whereas 20 years ago, you'd know every single person on your street, oh my God.

Speaker 2 1:11:53

Yeah, I mean in my village in Cameroon, where I live, my parents' house, the whole quarter, I mean a radius of about maybe, let's say, 10 kilometers. Like everybody knows each other, everybody knows you, know your neighbor. If you don't see your neighbor for five days, you're like I mean, what's going on? Where is he? You know, where is she?

Speaker 1 1:12:13

You know. So I go and check on them and see if everything's all right.

Speaker 2 1:12:16

Yeah, you know, like I mean in my childhood, watches out there, just climb there and get some flowers. So those are things that make us happy, bring that sense of fulfillment, that sense of community, like you said.

Speaker 1 1:12:35

So I think it's very interesting the difference in lifestyle, and I mean there's good and bad. Yeah, there's good and bad of course isn't there, you know we have a lot of negative things about our society, but we also have wonderful things.

Speaker 2 1:12:48

And that's the same with everywhere, isn't it Of?

Speaker 1 1:12:50

course, yeah. So, whisper, I think we've covered a lot in this, in your story and aspirations for the future and all those things, but we do have a closing tradition on the Creative Noirland podcast. I'd like our guests to leave our listeners with some sort of quote that resonates with you, but also a suggestion of a guest, someone in your network that you think might be an interesting person to come onto the Creative Noirland podcast, so you can tackle them in any order you like.

Speaker 2 1:13:21

I'll start with a guest, so I'd recommend this lady. Her name is Kristen Glory. She's a public speaker and writer. She has a very interesting story.

Speaker 1 1:13:34

Do you think she would agree to coming on the podcast?

Speaker 2 1:13:36

Yeah, I think she would.

Speaker 1 1:13:37

Okay, great.

Speaker 2 1:13:39

Yeah, she would.

Speaker 1 1:13:40

Why are you suggesting her? Who is she to you?

Speaker 2 1:13:44

So she's a friend, so I got to know her here when I came to the uk. So she she was born in uganda, right, and she was born in the midst of war. Lots of people died when she was born. Two hours later her village was attacked and her parents had to like flee with her. Then she was able to, you know, move from there, from germany, the UK. She's been through a lot and now she's an author. She wrote a book recently. One of them was titled Overcoming Fear, another one as well.

Speaker 1 1:14:14

So she did pretty well, pretty inspiring character.

Speaker 2 1:14:17

Yeah, so I just like her story.

Speaker 1 1:14:19

Her story is very interesting, amazing, and then go on, dennis. But what about some sort of quote or something inspiring to leave our listeners?

Speaker 2 1:14:28

There is this quote. What else is there? I don't think I recall.

Speaker 1 1:14:32

That's all right. We could always do some Googling afterwards to find out who the quote is from.

Speaker 2 1:14:37

Yeah. So there's this quote that I usually include in some of my videos. It says make every moment a masterpiece. Make every moment a masterpiece. Make every moment a masterpiece. So what does that mean to you? It's one of those quotes that just gets you thinking. It just makes you more aware of every moment. It just gets you in there, more conscious of every moment, more presence. So it just gets you asking the question that every moment that presents itself, what can I do? What should I do? What impact can I make? How can I make myself better? How can I do this to the best of my abilities? Because I'm talking about a masterpiece.

Speaker 2 1:15:18

A masterpiece is that work that you put your energy and you put your heart in it and you put all of your excellence in it and you're proud of. So can you make that moment? Can you be proud of that moment? Can you say that you're giving it your all? Can you say that you're putting your best in it? Can you say that that moment can be counted as meaningful, you know, and not just a waste of time, not just a waste of effort? So there's a lot in that short statement yeah, yeah, A masterpiece. So there's a lot in that shot statement.

Speaker 1 1:15:46

Yeah, yeah, make every moment a masterpiece. Yeah, I think that's a fantastic place to end. It is. But thank you so much for being a guest on the creative neuron podcast. Your story is very interesting, very inspiring, and if there's anything we can do to help with the global talent visa, even if it's just forwarding the podcast on to someone, let us know, because I think you're an incredible talent. An exceptional talent, a lovely man and, yeah, just very grateful for you agreeing to come on the podcast.

Speaker 2 1:16:12

Oh, and thank you so much, matt. Thank you so much for having me. I've had an amazing time, honestly and yeah, thank you so much and I look forward to the next guest. We're going to be a podcast and also congratulations on the recent award you had.

Speaker 1 1:16:29

We've been nominated for an award. I'm not sure when this will go out, so I'm deep in the process of trying to get people to vote for said award, but we have been nominated for an award, which is pretty impressive really, bear in mind. I think at the point of nomination we'd only done 12 episodes Just 12 episodes.

Speaker 2 1:16:44

I mean, that's impressive.

Speaker 1 1:16:51

I only done 12 episodes, just 12 episodes. I mean that's, that's impressive, I mean that's really well. Thank you very much, but this is not about me, it's about you, and I just want to once again thank you, mate. It's an amazing story and I hope everyone listening checks out your work and will include links in the show notes, and I wish you all the best of luck in the future.

Speaker 1 1:17:00

Well, thank you, thank you, man thank you for listening to the creative Noirland podcast. If you found anything inspiring or useful in this episode, please consider subscribing or maybe sharing the episode with a friend. Anything you can do to help promote and support Creative Noirland is so beneficial and I really appreciate it. Check out the website and sign up to the newsletter to be the first to know of everything that's going on here in Creative Nowaland. Thanks again for listening and until next time, explore, inspire and create.

Speaker 2 1:17:35

Better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing than a long life spent in a miserable way, and so, therefore, it's so important to consider this question what do I desire?