#0037 WEAR CHANGE - EVERYBODY CAN WIN!

Welcome to the Creative Nowhere Land Podcast. 

You've probably already worked out that I love using the podcast to shine a light on the people in my world who are doing interesting and inspiring things. 

Well, this episode is no different, as we are joined by my wonderful friend Gary Bonnick.

Gary, along with his wife Shannon, runs a business called Wear Change, A Shop, an online platform that sells a wide range of vintage and pre-loved clothing and paraphernalia. 

Wanting to do something a bit different in a world filled with fast fashion. Wear Change focuses on sustainability, building community, and giving back to the people around them.

They've recently signed a partnership with the Salvation Army, under which a percentage of all sales from Wear Change will go directly to them and to the amazing work they do in the community.

But not only that, Wear Change wants to help other artisan makers and creators. So if you are a fashion designer or perhaps an artist, then Wear Change wants to be a platform or a storefront for you to sell your work, too, because, as Gary tells us, it's bigger than just them and there's opportunity for everybody to win.

That's Gary through and through. And one of the reasons why I wanted to get him on the podcast, he's one of those people who genuinely cares about others and someone whose energy lifts the people around him, whether he knows it or not.

In this episode, we talk about Gary's journey, the early days where, as most of us did, He was searching for direction. We talk about his evolution and the passion and drive that he's now found, starting and running Wear Change alongside his fantastic wife, Shannon, supporting each other every step of the way.

We discuss why fashion is a language and why we need so much more colour in this somewhat beige world we all live in. We also talk about having strong work ethics, the lessons that we can all learn from failure, why rejection is simply a sign of redirection, and so much more.

Be sure to check out the links to the Wear Change social media and shop below:

Hope you enjoy this episode of The Creative Nowhere Land Podcast.

WEAR CHANGE SHOP: https://www.vinted.co.uk/member/67944777-shannt

WEAR CHANGE INSTAGRAM:  https://www.instagram.com/wear_changeuk/

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Set-Up

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hello everyone and welcome to the Creative Nova Land Podcast. Now, if you've been listening for a while, then you've probably worked out that I love using the podcast to shine a light on the people in my world who are doing interesting and inspiring things. Well, this episode is no different as we're joined by my wonderful friend Gary Bonick. Gary, along with his wife Shannon, runs a business called WearChange, a shop and online platform that sells a whole range of vintage and pre-loved clothing and paraphernalia. Wanting to do something a bit different in a world that's filled with fast fashion, WearChange focuses on sustainability, building community, and giving back to the people around them. Something that's hugely important to both Gary and Shannon. They've recently signed a partnership with the Salvation Army, where a percentage of all of the sales that WearChange make will go directly to them and the amazing work that they do within the community. But not only that, WearChains want to help other artisan makers and creators. So if you're a fashion designer or perhaps an artist, then WearChange wants to be a platform or a storefront for you to sell your work to. Because as Gary tells us, it's bigger than just them, and there's opportunity for everybody to win. And now that's just kind of Gary through and through, and one of the reasons why I wanted to get him on the podcast. He's one of those people who genuinely cares about others, and someone whose energy lifts the people around him, whether he knows it or not. In this episode, we talk about Gary's journey. The early days where, like most of us did, he was searching for direction, always feeling dedicated to whatever the task or job in front of him was, but never really feeling like it was quite right. We talk about his evolution and the passion and drive that he's now found starting and running where change alongside his fantastic wife Shannon, supporting each other every step of the way. We discuss why fashion is a language and why we need so much more colour in this somewhat beige world we all live in. We also talk about having strong work ethics, the lessons that we can all learn from failure, why rejection is simply a sign of redirection and so much more. Now, I love Gary and Shannon, and they're doing wonderful things that give back to so many people, and that's why I've got Gary on the podcast. So be sure to check out the links to the WearChain shop and social media, and while you're listening to the podcast, you can check out their range of stuff and maybe grab yourself something cool for your wardrobe. But for now, let's get into it.

Friendship Built Through Volunteering

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Okay. And I think it's gotta be ten years. Absolutely. Because I started so for the listeners, long story short, Gary and I met when we were both volunteering for a homeless charity in Birmingham. And me and Gary took solace in one another because we were often volunteered to be the I don't want to call them heavies, but the controllers of the food queue, shall we say? The influentials. The influentials, maybe, or the people that just maybe had a bit of a slightly more thick skin that could deal with the abuse that sometimes we think so. Yeah. But yeah, it's been a long time, dude. Yeah, it has been a long time. Yeah, it's been about ten years. And I just want to say, before we go into you and your story, I bloody love you, Gary. I know you're smiling at me now, but every time I'm around you, my energy just changes. You you are one of those people, and again, one of the reasons why I wanted to get you on the podcast, you're just one of those people in my world that it's just got wonderful energy. And I want to shine a light on you, what you're doing, and I guess in some way, say thanks, mate.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Dude, I love that. That's a great way to start. And for my ego, but no, all jokes aside, it's funny you said how long we've known each other, because you said 10 years. I'm thinking exactly the same thing, yeah, 10 years. But also, you may say those nice things about me, but this is not just for the pod, it's absolutely reciprocated. No, here we go. Because no, because me and Matt have these conversations. We've been having pod conversations before the pod was even a thing. Definitely. So it just feels supernatural. So I love you too, bro. And one of the main reasons why I've always had that entrepreneurial mindset is from a conversation that me and you had when I actually was very inspired from yourself and we went on a photography job for the same charity for Let's Feed Brum that we were part of. And I got a chance to see how a creative guy at the time you were doing your photography just goes about his day today. And I looked at you and I thought, you're loving what you're doing. Yeah, it comes with good and bad, but and I was very motivated by that. And we had a conversation in the car, and you probably not remember it. And I said, if I was to go and do something now, I've always had something where I've been thinking I'd love to do something for myself, but I'm not too sure what. And you always said to me, Whatever you do, you're gonna be the brand of what you do. And I said, I don't ever feel I want to be the face of what I'm doing, I'd like my brand to speak for itself, no matter what that is. And you said you can balance the two, and there's nothing wrong with just putting yourself out there to get into where you need to get to. You said, Yeah, I don't think I've ever told you this before, but like we had a conversation, and those words have always stuck with me about how I need to try and be a bit of a light in the dark for whatever I'm trying to do.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Well, that's how I feel about you. I do feel that you are the energy, and it wasn't so much as me saying you should be the brand, but whatever you do, I feel like you will excel at it because you're passionate, you're committed, you're dedicated. Like I said, I don't know. I mean, God, this is just gonna be the first 10 minutes of the podcast, just bigging each other up.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

But no, I hear the words that you say in terms of what you said about me, I really appreciate that. And it that's been the basis of me getting off my backside sometimes trying to do something. Have you found that's been difficult to find that thing for you? Yes. I find it more difficult than I care to admit. I feel like when you're younger sometimes, the confidence is there, it's confidence you need to try and keep there, but it becomes a little bit more natural where you just do and do, and then the older you get, the more your so-called innovate commons mature, so to speak. You can obviously feel that process can sometimes probably slow down a little bit. And I felt with me it probably has in the last kind of couple of years. I've got my wife who's a big cheerleader for myself in terms of she's always great for support. But in the last couple of years, I've really struggled and I've struggled with the concept of just reinventing yourself to do more because failure we know is part of life, but then you feel that you're gonna advance further. You feel you're gonna get your knockbacks. We're we all know that. But then you also feel that with those knockbacks coming, you're gonna get to where you need to get to eventually. And when you feel like that keeps going further and further back, it's easy to get a little bit down here and there about certain things. I knew I was gonna have my failures, but I didn't think it was gonna go on this long. I thought I'd be getting to where I get to by this age or this age. And that's when you realise that's the real tenacity kicks in. You just think, you know what, we just need to enjoy this journey, what we've got going on.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

And you have got great tenacity.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Because over that 10 years of knowing you, I've known you in this is gonna sound probably a bit strange, but I've known you in multiple jobs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

And each time I've never felt you've quite been happy. I have had different jobs actually, and I never thought I was gonna be that kind of person. I've I think some jobs you think you'll do well in that and you'll prosper because an element of your personality fits in here where you may have 40% of yourself that fits in that job, but it doesn't all encompass you on a whole to be like, you know what, I'm good at this, but I'm not motivated by this. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

So on a percentage scale today, as we're sat here, how motivated are you for where change?

SPEAKER_00 9:01

What I'm doing now. For what you're doing now. 100% motivated. I'm not gonna say I've applied myself 100%, which we're getting to, but I'm 100% motivated now. And that's come over time, realizing is this right for me, for my family, and for the common climate we're in. And is it fun? Is it fun? Do I want to do it? And yeah, I want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Okay, which leads us nicely on to where change, which is I'm gonna be quite honest, I'm using my platform on this podcast to shout you out, shout Shan out what you're doing, because I think it's bloody wonderful, and I think you're bloody wonderful. So, do you want to tell us a little bit about Where Change and what you're doing and what it is?

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yeah.

What Wear Change Actually Sells

SPEAKER_00 9:42

So Where Change is a clothing platform, if you will, sustainable platform where me and my beautiful wife we've started where currently we have a store where we sell vintage clothes, pre-loved clothes, and some new clothes. Now, a lot of people could think, okay, all right, there's a lot of places that do that. But the main things that we are very passionate about with us doing is getting these clothes and also bringing them back to life. I've also got my dad who works there, he brings the clothes up next to new.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

When you say brings the clothes up next to you, what do you mean it's like we get a lot of clothes?

SPEAKER_00 10:20

We alterations, we upcycle also as well. Some of the clothing that we get, we do upcycle it. But these items literally come up next to new. We've been given stuff which isn't that great, and we bring it up really good. And our main thing about it is when you see how something can be brought back to life in terms of clothing, you think, why would we go out and buy something new? Why would someone do that? Where some of the old clothes that are going to rag or whatever can be done something with. And I think when you're around that a lot more, you get really drawn into kind of why you're doing what you're doing with the clothes. I don't want to overly romanticize this sort of thing. So basically, our business is us working within sustainability and having a glorified charity shop in a way, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

And the charity shop side is no, I mean, well, see, you're gonna say that, but listeners are gonna think, oh god, charity shop. Listeners, it's not okay, all right, no. This is uh cool. Imagine super vintage retro football shirts, all the maddest fleeces you've ever seen, bright colours, neon signs, yeah, quirky stuff.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

You're not just no, no, no. The reason why I said glorified charity is because we've just signed a partnership with the Salvation Army. So we'll be giving a percentage of our earnings to the Salvation Army, which isn't actually let me forget that previous comment. It's not a glorified charity shop at all. I just meant in the sense of we get a lot of items, you can find a lot of gems like you can do in the charity shop, is what I meant to say. Yeah, but we've just signed a partnership with the Salvation Army, who we also get clothes from, and they're very beneficial to the community. So we've just signed up with them as well. So Wear Change is something, like I said, it's a shop where we really are really keen to work with people within the community in the sense of if you're a designer or if you have got any clothes or anything yourself, we want to be a platform for you. You can come and get a rail with us, we can sell on your behalf. Anything for anybody who's, I suppose, is a creative person within the context of what we're doing, really and truly. And that's something we really want to grow because as a clothing business, we've always looked at it in the sense of why should you shop with us? There's a million and one independent clothing businesses out there, but we're really trying to grow a community of people where okay, I do this and I do that. Come on board with us. If we've got a platform, you can work with us.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

And you've also you sell online as well. We sell online. The people that are listening to this in New Zealand or America or wherever they're listening can still go in and check out and source and clothes. Absolutely.

Style Over Fashion And Colour

SPEAKER_01 12:55

So let's talk about this. Like, I mean, you're a very fashionable man.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

I'm gonna stop you there. I don't like that word fashion. Why not? For me, fashion, it coincides with what's fashionable. I think everyone has their own style. Okay, and we all go through trends. There's just something about the word fashion. I struggle with that word, and I wouldn't, I personally wouldn't say I'm a fashionable man at all.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Okay, but I will say you're a very stylish man. I appreciate that. And I've always noticed that in the 10 years, even when we were out in the middle of the night doing homeless charity work, I thought, God, he always looks very stylish, this guy. Where does that come from? Have you always been interested in fashion clothes?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah, a lot of that I would say it starts actually with my family, my mum, especially. And in this, actually, I could put my aunties and my uncle, and also my dad as well. The reason why I specify my mum is because at a very young age, she's always has has encouraged me to if I want to wear it, I should wear it. And clothing is language, and I always say this to my wife, and clothing is choice, and we're all conveying messages, and I think there's decision in everything. I'm not trying to overly deepen too much, but I think it stems from there. I I love the aesthetic of how certain clothes can look as well. It's quite effortless with how certain people put their clothes together, and I've always loved that. And just wear the clothes and embrace everything that comes with it, but because there's one thing like I've always thought with people with clothing and fabric, and it's just a bit there's wear in the clothes, and there's really wear in the clothes. And there's some people who wear what they wear, it's just effortless, they're just that's what they want to wear, and that's that. And I feel now in this climate we're in, more than ever, we're all searching for our own individualistic trend, style, fashion, what whatever that is, because you never quite know how influenced you are as opposed to is am I influenced by that? Is that something I actually like? Sort of thing. So I'm always asking myself those questions as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

I think it's interesting that your mother instilled that in you because yes, it was about clothes and fashion, but underlying it's about don't give a shit what anyone else thinks of that.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

100%, 100%, and that's why I say clothing is it's really language when you really break it down, it's fabric on your body, but it comes down to that element of choice, and that choice that you're gonna make decides where and how you feel about what you've got on, and the message you, I guess, portraying.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Absolutely, and I just think as well, one one other thing I will just dive into as well the fact that I'm black and I've got quite dark skin. My mum always encouraged me to embrace the lighter colours as well, also on myself, and that's something I I do love bright colours, I like softer colours. That's just me. I'm just way more drawn to them, so you can experiment a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

We'll obviously share all the links to the social media, but anyone that's been on the Wear Change Instagram social media accounts will know that colour is a massive thing.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Absolutely, it's huge for you, right? Massive, mate, massive. Like I said, I'm early 80s. I don't feel like I see enough colour in the world at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

We're live in a it's funny, someone on everything's podcast beige.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

We live in a very beige world of it. It's very mundane. I'm probably a bit guilt of it myself at times, but yeah, I do like especially like pastel colours, and I just think you can navigate and outfit a little bit more simply with certain colours, base colours. Like it's nice to experiment. Would you consider yourself a creative? You know what? I'd consider myself a creative, but I feel like I don't have the catalogue of anything to back it up. Say more, what do you mean? What do you think you need to back it up? I suppose body of work in doing something really. But I because I suppose when you say the word creative, you think of the arts, don't you? The physicals, music, painting, photography, painting classic something quite tangible you can see, feel, hold, and whatever. But I suppose with me, I suppose in the creative side, it probably comes a lot more from idea I can have for trying to create something or do something. And my business ideas and stuff that I've done, those have been creative ideas where I've gone outside the box to do something. So creatively, I've got a real urge for working with people and connecting people to a service and doing something, but doing it in my own way, and that's when it comes back to what you said about me being, I suppose, the force for me doing it.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

I've I'm learning how to connect the dots for that, and that's why I think you are a creative, like you say, it's not the tangible, the painting, the photography, body of work. I look at you and I go, that is someone that leads a creative life, whether that's through what you're doing now or what I've seen you do previously, it's always trying, experimenting, tasters of things, going, is that gonna work for me? And like you've gone through our friendship, seeing you do different jobs, and as I say, the percentage levels of your passion weren't there necessarily. You're in it, but then I see you get your teeth into something that's just for you, yeah, and get greedy in a good way. Yeah, and I think you should get greedy because I think it's taken you a while to find this path, but now you're on it. I see the excitement in you, I see the drive in you, I see the passion in you, which is hard in this beige world that we live in where everyone's just trying to survive sometimes. Absolutely. You're ambitious, you're doing something with your wife that is for the future for your son to present an example a bit like your mum did to you that if you want to wear it, go for it. Yeah, if you want to do it, go for it. And that's in some ways why I've got you on as well. Not only because I think obviously we live in a time where fashion is a big thing, clothing is a big thing, but what you're doing now, leading this because I do believe you're leading a creative life now, and people on the podcast will be sick of me saying this, but creativity essentially is just problem solving, and you've done a lot of problem solving.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

You know what I have? Yeah, I suppose we're all we're all trying to figure out the own problems that we've got in life in terms of so on, but yeah, I feel like the problem solving side of things, yeah. Because it's easy to not beat yourself up, but think it's uh it's easy, it's very easy to have a why me? Like, why is this happening or why is I don't see this happening to anybody else or something like we've all got stuff going on and we're all just trying to navigate our way through what we've got going on.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

But now with where change, you feel like you said you're a hundred percent in a hundred percent commission, motivated.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Absolutely.

Starting Small At The Market

SPEAKER_00 19:29

I think with where change, with what me and my wife are doing, we had an idea basically, and we started, she was selling my son's very clothes online, but essentially another job that I've got, I work as a manager of a clothing bank as well. So the amount of clothes that I see going here and there and going out to people and so on, we were literally looking around our area to be like, where can you just buy clothes without going online? And charity shops is the one only kind of option right by where we live, which is why I said glorified charity shop at the start, which was probably wrong. And the one thing we did start the shop because like we wanted to do something where we thought the main thing, let's sell what we want to sell. We love this stuff. We like going around cherry shops and finding bargains and finding great clothes that not fast fashion or it's not this or it's not that. Let's sell what we want to sell. Like we don't need to pay loads of business rates for a shop. Let's go to our local market where we're at. Let's set up our own tiny platform, which we did, start small, see how it goes, if it works, and just take it from there. And that's exactly what we've done. And since then, now we've recently built a little changing room in our shop now as well, because we realise we've got a lot of dresses and stuff that we've got, and that they have the option to be there, which is why we wanted to open it. Come down, feel the fabric, feel the clothes, try it on. Because it's very different buying online when you buy some clothes as opposed to when you shop and you try something on, you see yourself in, it it hits different for me.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

But there's something very brave in that from just going from Shan selling a few of Zachary's old baby clothes on what Debop and Vintage and those sorts of things, which obviously those platforms come through, it shows that there is a market for second-hand sustainable fashion. But to go from just selling some baby clothes on those platforms to go, right, I think we could do this and turn this into a business. Yeah. That's uber creative and uber ambitious.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Was there a specific moment where you went, hang on a minute, we can turn this into a sustainable business? And I mean sustainable as in for you and your wife, not just necessarily working in sustainable fashion. Was there a moment?

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Yeah, I wouldn't say there's a distinct moment. She'd probably argue differently. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Sure, we've got Shan on the podcast rather than you, Gary.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Probably so. Time will tell, yeah. But like we were looking at storage to store our clothes in prior to that, to maybe possibly sell online or is this sort of a direct offshoot of you working with the clothing bank as well?

SPEAKER_01 21:56

You were getting more stuff in.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

No, the clothing bank is a completely different. Separate entity. That's something I work with charities for. But it added to the it's just a lot of clothing around sort of thing. So that sparked me to kind of do something else related with that. And Shan was already selling some stuff like that as well. It was a bit organic, really. I just came together and we thought, should we give this thing a go? So we didn't just dive into a market. I did my research. Around that particular time, I wasn't working, I was staying at home with my son. So certain days I would go around that market and look at the foot traffic and look to see like, are people buying anymore? Because there's a lot of high street stuff closing and XYZ. There's a lot of people in charity shops, which means a lot of people want bargains and a lot of people might want the clothes and knickknacks and stuff that are in there. So I literally I feel like the market is something which is never really gonna die. It's always gonna be there. And anything you're gonna do, it's all about the twist that you're gonna put on it. And I thought that's where the magic's gonna be. How do we go about doing that? What is that twist that you're putting on it? You know, the twist is for me, honestly. I'd say I'm gonna call it the USB, but how it looks and the items that we've got and the fact that we're consistent and we're there, we're visible, we're we it's something that you don't expect to be there.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

And do you think that would have been harder if you'd just say gone or we're just gonna have an online store? Because I will reiterate.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Yeah, because it's oversaturation, isn't it? So there's a million and one clothing sites and stuff like that. And how we retain our information now is so differently. If you've got an online store, why should you go to our website? And I just how am I gonna navigate you to get there? And you could argue the same about what we've got now with our sharp, but I'll tell you something with the sharp, is if you're in the area and visually you can see the footage, it's inviting to come down to the sharp. Yes, and you can try the stuff on. It's a cool place to be. We're building it up, it's got a little vibe, and it's in a market, which is having a little bit of a rebirth to market because it encourages some independent sellers. And I'm all for anyone coming down to the market, not just to buy your clothes, come down and have a chat with us. We'd like to be a directory for like, or if you want to leave any information here of some of your art, you can leave some details, sell it from here, and that's how you go about building up a community of people, some people who have got the same interests at heart, and that's what we really wanted to do. And in the area where we're at, there is nothing like that on the high street. There's charity shops, but you don't really see clothing stores anymore, really. Obviously, you've got your main brand minds, which is great, but I think a lot of us love going somewhere which is individual, and you think, oh, that person started that up. Just go and check that out. It's just a bit more fun. Uh, it's more fun going to a store where you don't know what you're gonna get. Absolutely, absolutely. And with us, you don't know, don't know what you could see. There's and the reason why people use that term as a lot of gems and blah blah blah. It's a gem in the sense of you don't expect to be in the location that it is, like you don't expect it to look how it's gonna look.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

You don't necessarily expect to find some of the say the gems that you find. Oh my god, I found a 1972 England football shirt.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

This is it, yeah. And we're only gonna work on that, and also just that one of the main things we take is such a priority. It's not thrown on the rails. Presentation for me is everything, and in the sense of everything that you do, it should have a bit of dignity about it. So if something's old, it doesn't need to be thrown on the rail. It's old, it's vintage, it's worn. Some people may not mind that, but it should look presentable. Whether you're going to buy it or not, we're not really too forced, but at least you can admire what it looks like. Because sometimes you may admire something, you think I don't want to buy it, but that looks cool. So the shop was there to really invite people to come down and feel the stuff and try something on. And you know what? Buy something that you probably didn't expect to buy. And because we don't really impulse by like that, everything's premeditated for me. Go on the phone, right? I want I need to get this. And that's how a lot of us, majority of us shot net, but we just wanted to bring back the old school. And if we're gonna sell old school stuff, let's do it in an old school way. You've got to put the work in and be there and be visible, and that's how you get the community back in from people just visiting and coming in. And when you have an event or a pop-up some stuff that we do want to do in the future, we can put it out there to the people who follow us and be like, guys, calm down. We're gonna be here doing this.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

But this is where you and Shan become a major part of the brand. Because if people come down and they're just sat there with some store assistant who doesn't really care, it's just where they're for the money. You're not gonna get that vibe of coming down speaking to you guys and going, Oh my god, yeah, we've got this in, and oh, we've just got this in, or this is great. Your passion comes through. Yes, you've got your online store, but it is all about community and sense of building something for the area that you're in that people could come and visit.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Yeah, absolutely. And to be honest with you, in this day and age, the percentage of people aren't thinking like that. A lot of people aren't really thinking like that, are they? I let's be honest, I often see advantage and a disadvantage a lot of the time. It can take me sometimes a bit of time, but I said eventually, me and Channel know if we're gonna do it or we're not, but if we're gonna do it, we've really got to do it. And just like okay, it's gonna take time, which isn't this isn't a money thing in the sense of obviously, yeah, it's a business also, isn't it? But this is not a oh, we need to start earning within a certain amount of time. You can't look at it like that as at all. Just be consistent, be there, have good quality about what we're doing, and keep pushing for something bigger than ourselves, which is what we're trying to do. If you build it, they will come. Let's hope so. At the moment, they come in.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Because we're building. I think people can really appreciate effort that goes into stuff. Now, a lot of people may not see if in the studio. I'm in your studio here now. As I walked in, I already feel like I'm in a create, I just want to talk about loads of stuff, just looking at the visual optics that are around me. I think that should be important when certain shops that you walk into, which brings us back to the colour and the quality and the this and the that, and I think it goes in a lot of different ways.

Faith Empathy And Serving People

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Okay, I've got a question for you. Okay. Why do you care so much about people? Question with a question, why not? I didn't get here by myself. I'm sure wherever in your life you didn't get here by yourself. Before I talk about anything, I don't want to veer too much left, but my faith is very important to me. Very important to me. And that, like I said, that doesn't have to integrate with people. That could be a separate thing for myself. Have you always had faith? Since I was 13, and it's helped me in a ridiculous amount of ways in terms of navigating where and how I see people for forgiveness and a lot of other things. And I think with people, and I just think it as much as I just said the comment last couple of years, I've struggled with people. I struggled with it in the sense of it's easy to think, oh, I haven't got back what you've put in for a lot of different things and why is that not appreciated and so on. But I've drawn to people because a lot of the time I feel people have been quite drawn to me in the sense of what I've put out, I've got back. When the generation in certain people, and I just think it's cool to just build relationships with people, and I haven't got any brothers and sisters, so friend stuff to me has always been super important. Like I get really excited to see my friends, like in the sense of like catching up and even going to do this and just having that little bit of time. It's motivation when you're around people a lot of the time to just be like for whatever reason. And I just think no day is gonna be the same when you're gonna be around people like that. You never know where a motivational bit's gonna come from or something that you can look at. I just think we just need each other just to make this world just a little bit better without me getting too deep.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

I think it goes back to what I said at the beginning: your energy, your vibe. I mean, people who know me, I'm not a man of religion, but I like how you use the word faith because I have faith, but I have faith in you, my fellow man, the people around me. It's not necessarily a religious thing for me, but how we met. We're both people that obviously care about other people. Yeah. And we've got empathy. I mean, we did about five or six years, stood out in the freezing on every Monday night, dealing with some abuse sometimes, lots of lovely people who were grateful for what we were doing, but yeah, it was And let me ask you a question about diverting it.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Some people could say, look, the whole is there a selfless act. So why did you do it? Why were you drawn to helping out for the charity that we volunteered for and doing that kind of work?

SPEAKER_01 30:31

So for me, it was a relatively again organic progression. I became friends with a guy called Bob and his dog Skip. I remember Bob. And uh unfortunately Bob lived on the streets. But we became great friends, and I ended up, not to sound virtuous or anything, but me and Bob became good friends, and I ended up helping him quite a lot, and we we got him housed, and and there was stuff that we did together, and I just thought, you know what, this is a massive problem, this homelessness. And for me to give up a little bit of my time, but it goes back to what you said, it made me feel good as well. I thought, but something inside me looked at my life and was like, look, I'm I've got so much more than others. I haven't got everything, but I've got amazing people around me, roof over my head, food in my cupboards, clothes on my back. You walk around our city, people haven't got that.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

A lot of people haven't got that.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Yeah, so for me to uh find this thing that I felt like I was giving back in some way was important to me. It was important, but again, going back to like you said, there's no selfless acts.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Yeah. The reason why I didn't say it to put you on the spot, I just felt it's interesting to see where people craft their answer from in terms of because you almost want to say your answer, but then it's very easy to come right back to make me feel good. And that's all right. And that's okay to say that. It's okay to say that because if it doesn't make you feel good within reason, then why not? And I also met some great people, like you said, this is how we met. Met great people. Met some amazing people, some amazing stories. It's very easy to change your worldview, how you see things, because exactly a surface level, you could argue living our lives, like a lot of people live, it flows a certain way. It doesn't flow a certain way for the people that we're meeting at all. If anything flips everything upside down, stories we used to hear. Yeah, and I think just the more you learn about certain things, the more you just, you know what? There's opportunities out there for everybody in different ways, and in a long stretch way that brings us back to kind of in where we're doing with where change, what we're doing, how we're trying to go.

Partnership With Salvation Army

SPEAKER_00 32:31

We are really trying to build a community of people. We don't know where this is gonna go, but we can try and channel where it's gonna go. And it starts with helping out and and where would you like it to go? I'd tell you what I'd love it to go. I'd love it to go to a place where I'd love us to be supporting a lot of different, not just charities, but also you may have this young person that's got a business. You buy with us, and percentage of that goes towards that person. A platform for a platform, basically. So, in the sense of we may have different shops or different places where people are buying from us, but the money it's helping different people to do different things, as well as us really highlighting the fact of the work we're doing with the clothes that we're saving, the stuff that's not going to landfill. And then from there, the community sense-wise, where change is in this area, okay? What needs to be done without getting involved with the council? Where can people fundamentally see the money going to? I'd love to do that. So the social impact of something where one of the things that I'm very big on, we're working on something for say you spend 20 pounds with us, break down that exact 20 where people can see where's the money going and why is it going to that project, so we can just let people know. Now, we easily could just go and start a vintage clothing project and try and do that. But like I said, it's I I just feel it's bigger than us. And I I don't just want to just do a business. I'd rather do something where it has an element of we are really trying to help something with the stuff that we're doing. Because if every business was to support the next person or just highlight or just hell, there'd be a lot of places now that would be thriving, but we're all trying to keep our head above the water. But I do really feel there's room for a lot of different things to grow. But just sometimes we all just need a little bit of a boost, a bit of a help. Like with the business that we're held in the Salvation Army, they're very happy, but we can see the amazing work that they're doing. And we're going to be doing workshops with them, we're going to be doing muddling churches, we're going to be doing upcycled stuff. And that's the stuff that they do fundamentally in their community. If we can help fund that and highlight what they're doing, we would happily do that. Individual artists, individual people starting businesses. I'd love to just be a bit of an umbrella for some people that are just trying to figure out where they need to be. Because, like I said, when I keep saying it is bigger than us, it is, and that it's in the name, where change, it's literally in the name. So the clothes that you buy from us, the clothes that you're wearing, it's gonna change and impact somewhere else. And not in a bit of a kind of corny eye, you say that, but what you really do. No, you pay that £20, we're gonna have a diagram, three pounds going right there. And if you want to go and visit that competition, go right there and do it. We encourage you to go and do it.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

So it's just but it would be very easy for you and Shan to just go, oh, we started this business and we'll just take the profits.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Absolutely, absolutely, but then it comes back to the conversations you've had today, and anyone that looks back for the homely stuff in terms of the charities that I've worked with, the different jobs I've had, the outlook I've had, the circumstances that we met, and the other stuff that we've done, it becomes quite prevalent to see why I want to do what I'm doing, and why we and Shan want to do what we're doing. I've got a son now trying to navigate him in this world and this climate, what's going on. I don't want to be two black-eyed peas, but he's got to see where's the love, he's has to see something needs to come from somewhere. And the whole term charity starts at home in terms of where it is because we are a functioning business, but we want to be mission-based. Mission-based in the sense of the money that we're earning, we want to do something constructing with it as well as grow the business. Why can't we do both? Why can't we have a business? Then we're like, yeah, we want to put some of it here. And in essence, maybe if you were doing the same, you could help the next person. That pay it forward thing. Why not? Absolutely, just pay it forward. But what but I just feel in the where we're at the moment, we need that more than ever. And if we're not doing it amongst ourselves, people tangibly need to see what is going on at the moment because it's very easy to just be like, I just want to try and start something and get my business going, which a lot of people are trying to do. But I already feel like working with the Salvation Army, how we're working, which is a local charity next to us, which puts all their money back into the community, that automatically feels amazing. And we can see where their work is going and converse with them. And in essence, they're now supporting us. So certain clothes that which could be going to RAG, they could let us have. We now can sell, buy, sell, donate, whatever we want to do with it.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

From a business point of view, though, does that just not make it more difficult for you giving a percentage away?

SPEAKER_00 37:05

No, because I think I don't think that at all. And the reason why I'm gonna say this is because I've started a business and I've started the charity, and you start as you mean to go on. So if you're doing this from the absolute start, you know what it is. And also, as well, you've got to look at the sense of if we're getting certain things from a charity, the same one that we're helping, I feel everything evens out. And I don't ever feel that I've never seen anybody put 100% into really doing something a certain way and it's not really working out. So, like, for instance, we sell online, so we've got an online thing about what we're doing, and we're looking to build what we've got, and we're only six months into having the market and it's going really good, and I'm very confident that it will do well because it will only grow in terms of what we're doing, and also as well, with the work that we are doing with the Salvation Army. It's very easy to talk about business and numbers and finances too soon with that, and you're not even going two years. So if you start as you mean to go on, then that's going to be your model. And also, as well, it lights a fire for you to just go and work harder, go and do it, go get it done, get the stuff out there, get wear change out there. Where else can we help? Where can we sell to? Can we do a pop-up shop? There's so many business closing in our local areas. I don't know if anyone else sees this, but I see absolute opportunity. There's seven empty buildings along what we've gone. I've been in touch with all the people for the late ages. Can we do a pop-up shop? We literally need it for three hours. We've got stock, which a lot of people would love, and we just want to go and sell it for five pounds. Everyone can win that way. It's just a case of just seeing an opportunity in something as well, which can only benefit what you've got going on. So I'm for the challenge, brother. I'm really for I'm here for it as well.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

It goes exactly back to what I said. It's you, it's your energy, it's your passion.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

I'm here for it. We're here for it. We are all about working with you, not working against you. It should be bigger than us, and we can grow and and do that. I just think there's opportunity and a lot of different stuff, and there's stuff here for everybody. Everyone's just trying to navigate how they're gonna go about it.

Work Ethic And Outworking Doubt

SPEAKER_00 39:11

But at the end of the day, if you don't have the work ethic, if you're not gonna work hard about doing it and you're not gonna constantly evolve, then it's not gonna succeed. So being a creative person, you must have come across countless people in the time that you were doing it, you think they're not doing it anymore, but why not? What happened? You just probably kept outworking people and your quality, the product spoke for itself. You just kept going. And I think we've all just got to keep going genuinely in what we're doing at the moment where we're at.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

I think that's very important. Like it's got hard, bro.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yeah, I'm not nowhere near where I need to be in a lot of instances, but every single person, or whether it's a business person or social entrepreneur or whatever it is they're doing, it just comes back to I'm sure you've heard it, Countless, just work hard and try and keep good relationships, good networks. The reason I'm on this pod with you now, we kept a relationship and it stems from the conversation. And you being selfless right now, from letting me be here on the platform. I'm letting you. Well, you are, it's your space. You don't have to let me be. You are essentially I'm a mate.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

This this spot could be here for anyone. Yeah, but if it wasn't inspiring, if I wasn't looking at my friend and going, oh my god, what an amazing thing he's doing. Yeah. You know, I've got loads of mates. That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

All right.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

All right. That's not what I meant. You know that's not what I meant, but I've got lots of friends. Yeah. But they're not doing what you're doing. Yeah. Who I haven't met how we met. There we go. I mean, I'm not trying to make us sound like we're the most virtuous human beings, but how we met, volunteer for a charity. I know you're a like-minded soul to me. I know you have empathy. I know you think more about other people, probably, than you think about yourself. I know we've got that common ground. I see what you're trying to do here. I see the good it's trying to do. Of course, I'm going to try and shine a light on it. That's what the podcast is all about. Yes, it's my platform. It's not my platform to go, oh, everybody, look at me. It's my platform for me to try and go, look at the amazing people that are in my world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Dude, it's a weird one with you because, like, in this weird way, you're so obviously with the platform that you've got and the creativity that you've got, your humbleness is off the scale for a lot of stuff to point where it's almost a bit like you're doing so much, but you don't want to put yourself a little bit in the forefront. God forbid, we like, we try and big you up a little bit. It's like you you take that back straight away. We're doing I'm not very good at that.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

I'm not very good at it, but it's like you said to me, you said, who's gonna interview you? And it's like James, my boxing coach on the previous year, who's gonna interview you? I want to hear your story. We do need your story though, dude. Everybody needs to actually trick you on. Yeah. If you were to directly give someone a message who's listening to this, how could they help you and Sham with what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 41:57

First and foremost, come and see us if you're local. If you're not local to where we're at, find us and wear change on our socials. Failing that, we're always up for different ideas. Reach out if you've got an idea, or if you want to work with us in any way, or you know somebody that would benefit from working with us. Let us know if you're any local companies or anything like that of places that we can support, or you'd like us to try and fund a support or help, get in touch. Like I said, it's all about us building a community of people and working with other people. So that's something that we'd love to do. Like we're open for ideas as well as for change to see like where we can help reach out, and we're all up for it, honestly.

How Listeners Can Support Wear Change

SPEAKER_01 42:45

And what about people looking at your stock? Do you photograph the stock?

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Do you sell it online? We photograph the stock. We've got a social, a good friend of mine who's he does our social content points. That's something I've been awful at from day one. I know exactly what needs to be done to keep social media content going. It's just not me. I've been out of the game for too long. So I have to get people to do it.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

It's this way, because you said earlier, you said you're motivated 100%. Perhaps you haven't applied yourself 100%. Are these these are absolutely the things I need to do? And social media, what's another one? I mean, because social media, you and me, we're of an age where social media is Don't get me wrong, dude.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

I was hand in hand with everything happening and seeing it. I just, by the time it was time for me to dive back in, everyone was putting reels and stuff together, and I was just a bit like, literally, can't be bothered.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

But I think you're a bit like me.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

And you know how important it is, though. It's literally what makes the world grow better.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

But now it's for your business, yeah, for your future endeavours. Yeah, it feels easier, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Absolutely. It feels easier in the sense of something I want to get involved with now. So even me, which my friend has told me is does our social media like to start taking more pictures of myself. That's what I said me muddling the stuff and doing stuff along those lines. I'm all up for that now. It's time now. It's time. Get involved, just start doing it. So Every day now is going to be a case of just creating as much content to get out there to people as much as we can for what we're doing. So I'm quite excited because it's a bit of a new chapter. Well, the business is still relatively new, isn't it? Absolutely. So like we're all holding hands together. So I feel like the business in a weird way is a bit franky. It's someone you created, and now I'm just going to walk hand in hand with it now, and we'll figure this out together. An evolution. Yeah, literally, that's how it feels. I feel like it's a separate entity where we're all just figure this out together. I said to my wife the other day, no idea where this is gonna go. And also the thing with business, you may want it to go a certain direction, may go somewhere completely different. But is that exciting or is it terrifying? When exciting, there's too much stuff in the world to scare us, brother. And I there's too much stuff, and what's gonna be is gonna be. And I think if you keep good people around you, we can we'll figure it out. I've got this far.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

This is what the conversation I wanted to have is like we've known each other a long time, and I see now the passion.

unknown 45:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

I've always seen passion, I've always had that energy. Your energy is infectious. I want to be around you. You're a I want going back to the uh opening statement. You're a wonderful human being that I just love spending time with. It's been fun. But it's been 10 years watching you figure it out. And still am, yeah. And like you said, we've had many conversations about you, your creativity. But now I see it as yes, this is the thing. Gary's got not only passion, I see a higher belief in yourself almost. With Shan behind you and Zachary, yeah. You've got a motivation that's beyond just you. Yeah, and you know what?

SPEAKER_00 45:38

That thing that you said to me about before, me being here and being there, it was like, I think that I was in survival mode. I think a lot of people I really was like an opportunity came for something I've and let it be known, like I've done well in the other jobs that I've been part of, but it hasn't encompassed me. My mum's always said the same thing, this relates to our faith, it's the timing, it's the waiting that we can't do a lot of the times. And now, here with you, following on from the conversation me and you had all that time ago and seeing where I'm at, he's so much more different. But also, as uh, my wife is a massive part to play for that because we've been we're working together, we've been allowed now it's to have some breathing space on to try and figure out what we're doing. So I've got it by my side now, and we're together working, bouncing off each other, whereas before, everything I've just figured out by myself. What am I gonna do? And I just think there's always that space for conversation. Conversation is everything, and we don't want to do that a lot of the time. If you're in a nine to five or you want us for a raise, or you want to do this, no one really wants to have the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

But it's so much easier to have a conversation about growth and pushing things forward when it's for you. Absolutely. When you spend your time working for someone else, you just want to go home at the time. Just want to go home and just want to go off.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Yeah, when it's for yourself though, and also as well, I just also have to come back to the kind of you never really got anything to lose. Let's just give it a go. Just really give it a go and listen to it. But there's bravery in that. Yeah. There, I think anytime you step outside of your, I don't even use the word comfort zone. When you step outside of what you know, you have to be brave to a point, don't you? Because it's just it's the unknown. And I've me and my wife say, and I've spoken to, and also my dad, like I said, he works down there and with us, and something I'm always stressing: don't care about the money just yet. This isn't about that. We have to focus on being visible and being consistent and just being there. We put out a good product, good range, good colourful stuff, have the place looking awesome, somewhere you feel you'd want to go, and the rest will come. I genuinely feel it will come. And you know what? If it don't, then it don't, then we gave it a go and we'll do something else.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

See, that's a good philosophy, just in itself, just that ability to roll and adapt and be malleable.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

We all have to because we're all, every day we're all getting older, and sometimes it's just like you may not be where you want to be, but it's gotta be better than where you were. So me and my wife had two plastic full boxes full of clothes selling them on vintage, thinking, oh yeah, it's cool. We just made £12. Like selling something now to a point where we've got a two-stall shop with a change in room, which is open five days a week.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

That's a big leap from selling a few bits on vintage.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

Yeah, it is. It really is, and and it's and and not just falling also into the whole we're just a reseller, and that's why we're just like, okay, so what is this gonna be bigger than what we're gonna be? And I said, we need to go down a different direction to everybody else and go down a direction that makes sense to us. I don't care what everybody else is doing, and then also we want to connect with different local businesses, other creative people that have got some ideas, and let's go and do it, man.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Could people come if they've got cool retro vintage stuff? Oh, we have people, yeah, people come and donate as well.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

We're starting off buying stuff from people. I'd love to get back to doing that, but you need to have a set format when you're buying from people. It's it's a whole different kind of negotiation of debugs.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

I imagine, because you say someone's selling a vintage top-on vintage or debop or something like that, they're gonna put the maximum price they want to get through it. Whereas actually you have to then think about resale price.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Yeah, it when you're buying something off someone, you've got the business, it's just I don't know, it can raise more problems than it needs to sometimes. So, and I've got a cool little idea for how we can go about doing that.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Have you had anyone come in or had any pieces of clothing where you've heard the story behind it? I know that's probably quite rare. Yeah, absolutely. You go, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Yeah, no, we have had a lot of conversations with people who have brought clothing down or called me about it, and I've got quite emotional because they're ready to part with the clothes of a loved one who's probably deceased or anything like that. And you think, wow, like a lot's gone into this.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

But rather than just dumping it in a bin bag at a charity shop door, they're coming down to see you, Shan, even just giving them the time to tell that story is absolutely important to me.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

No, absolutely, and that's something that we encourage you to come down if you'd like the clothing to just kind of really and truly be sold in the right way, I think. Because I keep stressing this, and I like the thing you've been down, dude. You've seen some of the clothes, yeah, it's just clothing, but some of that stuff you've got down there's 34 years old, it comes up great, and that's what we want to do and give the clothes a justice it deserves, in the sense of just have a bit of integrity for every piece that we've got on the hangar, but it everything will be represented and sent off in the right way. So we're big on that side of things, to be fair, with you, like how we go about sourcing clothes and how we go out of things.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

It is important, I guess. People in this age of fast fashion where you can buy a whole outfit for four quid from Primark or something ridiculous. And I guess, like you said, we're in our 40s now. The fashion

Trends Stock Choices And Customer Taste

SPEAKER_01 51:02

that I'm seeing these kids wearing today, it's all the stuff that we were wearing as kids.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

There's a whole thing at the moment with a lot of like younger generation, we'll say younger, probably between like maybe say 16 to say 24, that think that the people who've probably our age, 35 older, are mimicking how they're dressing. It's a weird one with me because I feel like I have to stay in the past where I'm at to move forward, which is a weird one. What do you mean by that? Because the clothing and interior and stuff I've got is all from my childhood and stuff that I used to love, which is old school. But also my mindset, yeah, I feel like you need to go back to when you was in the playground, you were fearless. You need to go back in your past sometimes and get that old school young kid who just didn't care, in the sense of I'm just gonna go for it. Because as you're getting older, as I mentioned before, you can slow down and just with that maturity, you can get a bit too cautious, which is measured and we need to be, but you need to keep a bit of rogue about you if you're gonna do this business thing. It just gotta be a bit of a risk taker and just think I'm gonna go for it.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

Not just business, I think in anything that you've got passion to do, especially if you feel like you're gonna get resistance in a world that we're in now. God's yeah, just go for it. Just you and Shan doing your own thing is an act of resistance in itself, I see.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

I think majority of us who go into anything know it's gonna be a risk, but knowing it's gonna be a risk and taking it, it's the same thing because like even what you said earlier, it's like you know it's a risk, but if it doesn't work, we'll do something else. If it doesn't work, you can do something else. And I just think I've never seen any success stories about everyone getting it done the first time. And if it is, then to me that's not quite a success just yet because something's bound to go wrong. It's bound to go wrong.

SPEAKER_01 52:38

What's been the biggest hurdle you and Shanna face in starting Where Change?

SPEAKER_00 52:42

I'd say probably the biggest hurdle for us is the area that we're in and where we are. That's for where change the market still. And the other hurdle is has probably been for us we've had to navigate where and how to sell. So my wife does she does a lot of the stuff online, she does the listings, she does everything like that, and I take the packages. We've got our roles, what we do, and if certain things slow down in a particular area, some things don't get done. It's easy to feel stagnant if you're not doing what you're doing, because she works full-time also as well. But one of the main things I was-I was gonna ask that. Like, you both have other jobs, right? Yeah, I've got a part-time job. Prior to that, I was watching my son and had a part-time job.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

And so would the goal be for you and Shan that this is your sole entity?

SPEAKER_00 53:31

Absolutely, it's something she's mentioned, but I need to speak into existence fully, and that's the goal to create a platform for ourselves. We're doing this full-time. And I think that comes from thinking outside of the so-called box about what this can be. You can reach out to investors, you can reach out to people. There's so many different entities, literally, like somebody may want to buy into what we're doing to create an opportunity for other people, and essentially you're trying to think how can the world see us, but not just to see us, but to see us so we can be seen to be helping and doing other things for other people. Because I think there's two different entities. There's wear change, what we do, and then there's the online selling what we do, and then we've got the market, the shop. So for the shop, I would say it's getting to know people there because we're actually in an area where a lot of people don't even know there's an indoor market, they've been there for years and don't even know the market's there.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

So that's a whole So does this is this why you have to balance it with the online stuff as well? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

Yeah, because the online is part of our process, what we do. And if anything, the shop front is literally a lot of the time just that because you can't beat coming into somewhere trying on the clothes, looking at it fits, just to highlight that there's something else in the area. Because I think you talk with your feet, don't you? If you want to go to a shop. Yeah, that's why the first thing we ask, how did you hear about us? If you hear about us online, that's amazing because that shows you've seen it on your phone and you think I want to go there. I just appreciate people coming in. If you're not buying anything, I just appreciate people just coming to check out what we've got going on.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

Oh god, because how easy is it just scroll and go, oh, that's a cool vintage store, scroll past.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

Yeah. Even that word vintage, I've just stayed away from. I know it's been used quite a lot now because not all what we've got is vintage. Some of it is old school, some of it's retro, some of it's just a bit of funk, some of it's just some random bits, but it's it's just a mix of everything. Like we have so many different demographics coming into the shop, terms of age, it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

Do you notice any trends in what people are buying?

SPEAKER_00 55:38

Yeah, I see trends, notice trends. Like Y2K is massive at the moment. Is it me and more follow trends to know what's what? Obviously, yeah. I was gonna ask that.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Yeah, do you and Shan follow fashion trends to almost future think the things that this trend is coming back? I've just seen this selection of things in a charity shop, the wholesalers, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

Okay, let's jump on that. Yeah, it's not all of what we do, but it's definitely some of what we do. I mean, business-wise, I mean, you think that's selling, people are buying that, let's get that, but also a lot of the stock that comes back I like. And I think it's cool to have in the shop. Like, for instance, isn't that difficult for you as a quote unquote style?

SPEAKER_01 56:16

Yeah, no, it is, yeah, it is. Are you picking pieces that you would buy or you would wear, or are you thinking of, well, that's my taste. What about this person's taste?

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Yeah, that probably takes us back to the last question about what can be quite tough. Yeah, absolutely, it can be very much we think this is cool, but yeah, me and Chan have both put stuff out which we think that's awesome, and it's just sat there, and other stuff has gone, and then it's just if we back everything that we put out, we're not just putting it out, just put it out. So, for instance, if something's really hitting at the moment and everybody's buying, but we don't like it, should we have it in the shop? Those are the kind of questions we have to ask to ourselves. Do we need that fine balance? Yeah, it's a funny one. It's a conversation I like having, actually, because one of the main things we do is we ask people continuously what you would like to see in the shop. And some people want more stylish leathers, some people sometimes would love more of the kind of Y2K baggy jeans. So we try and communicate as much with everybody who comes in, even if you're not buying anything, we like to find out what they want because what might be mass trending or fashionable, oh, everyone's wearing, and then okay, maybe they are in London or New York, but local to where we're at. The idea of wearing it's great, but no one's really wearing it here.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

So maybe they need a bit more of your courage of picking their outfits.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Probably so.

SPEAKER_01 57:36

And if they are, I'm here for it. I love it. That's what I love about your socials. It's like on your social media, there'll be a reel of you going, I'm gonna just piece together an outfit. Oh, here's a wicked shirt. Oh, what would I pair with these? I'd pair some cords and oh, look at these retro Adidas Samba trainers that we've got. They would go great with this. And it's yeah, and this is why you and Shanna the are the selling point, I think.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

And you know what? I'm gonna embrace that a lot more. I will embrace that because everybody these days I feel needs a nudge. Do you find it easy or hard being on social media now? I'd love to get on camera more with more people. So one of the things I'd be looking to people local to me is people who just love clothes and love clothing and are doing other stuff. We're looking to sponsor the right, I'd sponsor the right person. Is that where you have to look into things like sort of social media influences? With the social media influence stuff, we've had a couple people who have covered us and their influence for us has been amazing. So you had a cool account come down, didn't you? So yeah, so her name is Sarah. She's awesome. She's What's her account called again? Stuff to do Westmids. Yeah. She basically finds all the cool stuff to do in West Midlands. But yet again, it's her energy and enthusiasm which she's built up such a following. That we had our promotion of us opening down at the store properly, and nothing to do with the film, and I just wanted to get her down just because she was a local influencer, just to have her down to have the chat and the conversation. And she said, I'd like to film. And I said, I'm all for that. And also, as well, it turns out she's from Bearwood herself, and she was all up for kind of doing a little bit promoting people, promoting good things in her. Which we welcomed, and since we've had that social media following went up, we've had a lot of people have come in, people have been in since there. So the social media influences is awesome.

Influencers Footfall And Market Revival

SPEAKER_00 59:29

Obviously, it's amazing. And not just for us, but it was for the market where we are in general, which was something we were trying to boost. It wasn't just wear change. Wear change is in barewood indoor market, where there's a load of stalls in there. We've got a flurries, got an old school calf, we've got fruit and veg. There's someone who does like wool, we've got an Nigerian store there who's got all the best stuff in jewelry. There's a gentleman there who does cosmetics. So it's a whole range of old school trade and community stuff, but these are local trades people who I feel really need support in. So we've got a bit of a twist, but at the same time, we are in the same building as them. So they are so footfall comes naturally, they've got to walk through the market.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

They have to walk through. And bearing in mind this is an old school market. Yeah. You and Shanna have come in and you've made this super cool space. You want it to be an experience. You've now got the wall on the outside. Almost it's like an Instagrammable wall. Oh, yeah, yeah, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

I'll say that, I'll say that proudly. Yeah. Somewhere when you've bought your clothes, post it on the on the socials there. And also, as well, that can be incentive for you. You could get a discount off next time you come back or just a bit of incentive. You do all of that though, don't you? I mean, you've got loyalty cards.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

So this is all thought about.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:46

Yeah, so it's incentive, and we've got ideas to be doing other stuff. We're gonna be having like first Saturday of the month where if you want to just come and have a sit or just have a chill or just have a chat, you can because come down and then there'll be for a certain amount, which will go to probably our donations for the salvation army. If you want to give a pound, if you'll get a chance to pick, you could either get it could be a £10 voucher, it could be raffling some clothes, some clothes or a particular item, or stuff along those some incentive for people that are coming down. That's what it's all about. Everybody trying to win, but just in the space of walking around a market which a lot of people wouldn't really expect to see, and it it does kind of come out of nowhere, which is why I'm always encouraging people to come down.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:32

And do you feel like because it is such an old school market, do you feel like you and Shan have come in with all this colour and all this vibe and all this energy? Do you think that's slightly infectious on some of the other people?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

Probably not everyone, but I still they still all appreciate what we're doing. It may not be for them, but um even if it's just the inadvertent footfall of four people coming to them. I definitely feel it's woke everybody up slightly though to see what can be done with a space which was absolutely nothing. Because, like I said, my dad gets ultimately credited for that because in a weird way he's like our interior designer guys and he's upcycled everything that we've got down there, so we've lived by what we why what we're about, really. And everything that we've used a lot of the time has been used unside the market, which was in the back. So all those stuff that's been left there accumulated over the years. My dad has saw that stuff and saw, right, we can use that. So you are literally practicing what you preach. Yeah, but to answer your question previous, I think some businesses definitely have clucked on to what we're doing and appreciate that. And in some ways, that can give you a bit of drive. I know every business is different, but we are trying to not just bring people to our store. We are we're always actively trying to boost the market as well. Yeah, which is again something we don't have to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

But and goes back to you and that energy you want to just give back to people and make sure you see everyone body.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:52

I mean everyone in it together. You I mean, when you're when you're under the same roof every day and you've got a business, those are your brothers and sisters.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:58

And that's an attitude you've had for as long as I've known you. You want to see everybody win.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

Yeah, there's room for all of us to win. There always is, and and I've said before, like, if someone was to take the idea of what we're doing, replicate it, and do it over there, I'm not gonna be mad because at the end of the day, you've inspired someone to go and do something. If they've modded off what you've done, you can't stop that. You can only do what you're gonna do. There's always gonna be somebody who's doing something similar-ish to what you're doing, but are they you? And if you've got an idea out there to everyone who's listening, probably if you've got an idea and you're not acting on it, act on it. Because if someone goes and does what you're doing, don't be mad. You can't be mad.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

Go and do what you're gonna go and do. Well, we live in a time where everyone talks a good game, so easy to

Stop Overthinking And Start Moving

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

do. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna do this. Okay, what's the first step?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:52

There's there's friends that are around me that I love to bit who have actually had good foundation for ideas, and they've they've done the basic, went and got the website done and and did the whole thing, and they've just kind of stalled, and it's stalled because they've told me they've got a lot going on. News flash, everybody's got stuff going on. Even if you don't have anything going on, you've still got something going on. Yeah, because from your day, you've still got your barriers.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

That's what I'm yeah, so like not even necessarily if you need a horse to water that you can't make it drink.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:26

Absolutely, mate. And I just think there's elements in everything, but like I just think baby steps in everything that you're gonna do, it can seem quite overwhelming, which is why people who haven't put in the work have got all the answers. And I just think we're all gonna have days where you're just like we can't be bothered, but just time weights for none of us, and I just think if you there's something you want to do, just do it. Like, honestly, and I'm sure so many people on this podcast have heard have said the same thing. You need to go ahead and just do it. You've had this all over the place in terms of that motivation to do it. If you have the desire, we have to. Sometimes I think this took me so long, but it hasn't taken me so long. I believe in the time is right for me now. You are where you're supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

Yeah, genuinely feel like that. Absolutely. Do you think you're an inspiration? I know you are, yeah. Do you think you are?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

I think I am. I think I am, and I think it's important to be not just for the sake of it, and I use this term a lot. Sometimes you've got to be a light in the dark for your friends. Meaning it's good to motivate your friends and motivate the people around. I wanted motivated people around me that are trying to be in a good space. Because I tell you something, dude, that negativity just draining. So do I think I'm inspiring? Yeah, but I feel I get a lot of inspiration from people around me as well. Family, friends, they're very inspirational. I keep inspiration around me. My wife is more inspirational, no one actually knows. We're all a fan. So the positive is not just to be positive, but to be like just embrace what you got going on and uh we don't stay still, we keep it moving, not just for a distraction, but don't stand still because we're standing still, we're not getting to where we feel that we can get to. So keep it moving. And I need all of this so-called stuff. My son now is two years old. There's gonna be ups and downs, and I need to be solid. We need to be solid for him though. And I want my family, my friends to say it takes a village. I said this is Chris and it does take a village. So our circle that we've got around us, I need to be the best for him. So, like I said, I keep stressing it's not just about us, it's gonna be about everything that encompasses the people who shop with us, our networks, our partners. It's all how you give back, how you pay it forward. Yeah, yeah, because it's like the same people on the way up, brother. On the way down, you're gonna need people to hold you up sometimes as well. Like, no matter what you feel success looks like, I've never seen any big companies, they don't just get there by themselves. You get back to people, they've always got so much people that were behind the success of where they got to where they got to. What

Success As Peace Freedom And Pride

SPEAKER_00 1:07:13

does success look like for you? Success for me success. Just in general.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:20

Just for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:21

Peace for me is success. And uh my wife said this as well, and is and freedom. Freedom in the sense of we can do it now because we can. We don't have to plan to next year. So a lot of things can fall in between that. You could put finance in that, you could put love in that, you could put a few things. I think it's all encompassing depending on where you're at. But peace and freedom for me seems like success. And also success for me as well is being proud. Being proud. Sense of achievement that you've done. You set out to do what you said you wanted to do, and it feels right when you got there. And do you feel proud of where change? Yes, I do feel proud. Now that I'm sitting here within context, I do feel very proud where we're at, where we've come from, just because of the start that we had and where we're trying to do it, and we're in the super baby stages of what we're doing. But yeah, I do, and I think speaking with yourself and airing, because this is therapy, bro. Like, you know, setting, isn't it? Really and truly. It's first aid therapy in the sense of I'll send you an invoice. I'm all for it, but I'm all for it. But that's like um that's what I'm saying. Like, to you're doing what you're doing out of what you're doing, and giving people like myself a platform. Would it be nice if where I could get to a point where I could help that platform give back and so on, and that's what it's about. And like I said, we're just starting.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:44

Right, you said it takes a village to raise a child, but it also takes a village in the sense of to try and do things. I mean, yes, I do this alone. I've got amazing friends, I've got amazing family who are all trying to back me as best they can, but they don't really know the levels of what goes into all of this, what I have to balance with my photography career, this, but that's why again wanted to get you on the podcast. I see elements of me in you and that drive to want to be better, to want to help people, to want to shine a light on other people, that empathic nature, where you actually give a shit, dude.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

Some people are too busy documenting the document, like to just do it, aren't they? To be fair. Like, I didn't see one phone come out when we used to do the work we did. Think it was just more about that's just something we feel we just needed to do, end of. And we did it, and that's it. And you're still doing that in a sense like you're giving your time effortlessly to other things, giving your time.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:43

So, like but you it's never gonna stop, is it really well fingers crossed, no? Because realistically, all I'm doing is having just fantastic conversations that are hopefully gonna inspire the people that are listening to do whatever that thing is, whether it's start their own clothing range, start their own shop, pick up a paintbrush and paint a picture. I don't care what it is. Yeah, I just think, yes, everyone that comes on the podcast has a different, say, creative outlet, medium, whatever that might be. But if you take the base level of people, everyone that I want on the podcast or that's been on the podcast has an inspiring story if you're willing to listen to it and take the thing that you need to away from it.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:24

And I bet they really haven't tried to articulate their end goal too much, neither. Like I'm trying to get to here and no, probably just enjoy the process of what you're doing and do it well. I'm not saying be vague. You've got to have some kind of idea like where you'd like to go, but just don't over-procrastinate too much.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:44

And I think But again, it goes back to everything we're saying. We live in a time where everyone talks a good game, but to actually start, to actually put one foot in front of the other, yeah, to do, take the risk, whether that's to create a picture, to start a business, to start a new hobby, to learn a new skill. I mean, look how many people are in the world that you just go, yeah, I'd love to do that. But why aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

We have more access to do anything else now, more than anything. You literally can pick up your phone and go and learn any language in the world right now. Yeah. But yet again, that requires putting in the work. Everything requires putting in the work. And we are in an age now where it's just we're so I don't say stressed out, we're just so bugged down. We are all tired, we're all just we're so mundanely just tired and drained because we're on the phone, we're conditioned to just do things a certain way, and it's tiring and just been like, wow, what's going on in the world, and just like I was only thinking something.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:42

It's

Phones Dopamine And The Optics Trap

SPEAKER_01 1:11:43

just draining, and I was only thinking something similar not long ago. It's that we're constantly being fed these distractions, these things, whereas in previous years, you wouldn't have had all these instant dopamine hits that you need to get. It would have been actually it's alright for me to just sit in silence for a bit and think and be. But I think I don't want to say it, but I feel like people are scared of their own thoughts and scared of silence sometimes. Absolutely. You know, the panic at the mere minute of not having a dopamine hit or not having a distraction or not having anything, just it's the loudest thing at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:18

Like silence is the loudest thing. It's a weird one because it's just like people just almost don't want to be with their own thoughts at the moment, do they?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:27

Because and it's very easy not to be with their own thoughts, you know. You can't turn it off. Like I say, people pick up this.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:34

The last time you turned your phone off.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:36

To be fair, I mean I'm one of these that my phone goes in a separate room when I sleep and everything, so I don't just have done that for a few months and started doing it again, gone right back to not doing it again. Had a conversation the other day. You know, we get up, turn our phones on, scroll through, whether we want to or not, some of the most horrific stuff. You know, you can open your phone to start your day. And we volunteer we voluntarily start scrolling and go, oh, there's a bombing here, there's a kidnapping here, these people hate each other, these groups hate each other. God, now I've started my day with such a depressing storm cloud of doom around me. Yeah, it's not good, it's really not good, and that's how you're starting the deck.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:20

But again, I think they all continue to be able to do that. I've never been against social media, like, because it's a tool and it's all about how we use that tool. It's not obviously, we can't blame the function of the thing. It's how we operate, it's how we go about being conditioned to use certain things because that's just what businesses do, that's what people do, that's how we're coming.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:49

We're not sitting there going, look at me, look at the highlight reel. I mean, God, look how many people virtue signal because they've given 50p to a homeless person on the street. Yeah. And we could have dined out on that every week. I know. It's ridiculous, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:01

But then you think obviously we'll be spat on by a spice head this week while I was volunteering. Well, that was a fun one. But what comes with that is we don't get chance to tell people what and how to go about things.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:15

But then that goes back to if we were the type of people that did that, and don't get me wrong, we did have people come down and volunteer that they'd come down for one thing, show it on social media, and then never be seen again. Yeah. There's that humility where actually it wasn't about the optics, it was about what we were doing. And yeah, yes, we got our non-selfless acts benefit through it. But you don't do what we did for four or five years, freezing cold Monday nights, as I say, being spat on by spice heads and being called all the things under the sun because someone's not first in the food cube. Yeah, you haven't got the element where you are thinking about other people, and again, this people might listen to go, What a pair of virtue signal idiots. Yeah. And that's not what I'm trying to say. No, no, that is not what I'm trying to do. I'm just saying this is the root of our history of where we met. And I'm so glad we're so glad I volunteered.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:07

I'm so glad that you volunteered. Me too. I'm so glad that but like I think it's yeah, again, it's that element of just embrace who you are within that particular time. Because yet again, could have just been at the back.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:18

But then they are people, but I embraced like that that conversation, they are just people, they're people in a circumstance that I'm no better than and they're no better than me.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:28

And the stories we used to hear were everything from my wife kicked me out to I've got every bit of money to cover my bills just, but I can't afford food.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:39

Such a different surgeon consultant in King's Hospital. He lost his job just through alcohol. He was sleeping in a hotel for like six months. That was all happening through the divorce. He found himself on the street, his family and friends turned against him, and I had the conversation with him over a few months. But this man was a surgical consultant and an easy six figures, valued in his field and made a mistake.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:07

This is what people also forget that we learn.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:11

You're only a few mortgage payments away. Without any people around you to lean on for support, you lose your job or lose anything, and it can happen to anybody.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:21

Yeah. I don't want to sound harsh, but people can walk past homeless people in the street and there's that very much, they don't even consider them human, they won't even talk to them. No, absolutely not. Well, we've seen it. Are you keeping yourself safe? Not just for voluntary time, just for someone to ask them the question.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:35

Yeah. And it was a genuine friendships as well. Because I've had a couple of them, I've genuinely built up a relationship with them over the course of years. Really got to know them to a point where I'm seeing them in my day-to-day, and I consider them a friend.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:48

Still to this day, I'm walking around Birmingham, I do jobs sometimes, and people come and speak to me because of let's feed bruh. I see loads of people.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:54

Yeah, you see people now and again. I mean, I'm not in central Birmingham, like I said, as much, but then I saw somebody not too long ago. Yeah, no, he was a good mate. We used to have some great chats, but people generally don't see some people as human like that. They don't. It's just and it's you see it from the other side of things. And I used to speak to some people sometimes, and they'd say to you, ah, it's cool to have a chat. I haven't chatted to anybody in a few weeks. Like weeks, someone hasn't spoken to them in weeks. It's all encompassing, isn't it? And you think people, relationships, business, all just starts with the chat, all starts with the convo. What are we about? What are we looking for?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:36

And how do we want to get there? And I think strangely, this might sound like a weird progression, but all of those things have led to the podcaster. Yeah. Me having a genuine interest in people, me caring about people, the ability to speak to anybody from all water, that's also part of my job. You know, I speak to top CEOs, to a homeless man on the street, and I'll speak to them the same way. But being able to have those conversations with people is only a direct progression to, oh, maybe I should have a podcast where I have conversations with people.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:07

Yeah, well, yeah, and you look at it like that, you're just like, that was your training, not to put that formal word on it, but like your background it just in terms of who you are, this is a general transition from that. But essentially, it's just Matt being Matt, chatting with somebody like I'd like to think so.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:23

Yeah. I mean, I don't want anyone to think I'm putting on any.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:27

Well, anyone who knows you, yeah. Like, no, you know, like this is the thing gonna be the same where I see you hear their different conversations for different settings and so on. But essentially, you're not gonna compromise your character for who you are for something in terms of how you go about things. But it's weird, isn't it how it goes back to optics?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:45

That's what it's built on now, brother. That is that is an optics. Everything is what you see and how you perceive. But it goes back to what we were saying about clothing, how we present, how people are seen to the outside as well. Well, and yeah, I don't know, there's some weird full circle thing coming back around the optics how we perceived.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:04

It is about optics. Recently, I had somebody reach out to me. A friend of mine knows somebody who has supposed got celebrity status, that they could come down to our market and the friend is saying they would love your store. But then there's always that because they are celebrity and they do have that pull that you're thinking, oh, does it look like I've just got this person down, or does it feel like just to promote what we've going on? But then you've got an element. If I know that's the truth, should I really care? Take the opportunity. Yeah, why would I not take the opportunity to do that?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:36

Just six months into a business, take the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:38

It's that bad. If they want to come down, I'm not inviting anybody down just for the sake of it. That's somebody that would say this person would love to come down to this place. And it's it's so easy to just overthink things and think, well, how does that look here and how does that look there? And I thought, no, we're not compromising ourselves in any way, shape, or form. If somebody said somebody will love this thing, and then I was just, yeah, get him down, that'd be great. Don't overthink it. Don't overthink it. Yeah, that's great. And I thought, hang on here. I'm talking myself out. Why am I talking about it?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:06

The minute we start overthinking, you'll talk yourself out of it. Talking about talking myself out. Who cares?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:10

Cares? Who cares? Yeah, he cares. And it's just I'm not looking to just get somebody down and just oh look, they're here. Like, no, like calm down. Like, this is what we're trying to do. If you know anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:22

You want them to understand the reason behind it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:24

Absolutely, like, understand what we're about and what we're doing. I really would like to let them know. I wouldn't even, chances are, I'll be honest with you, I wouldn't even have a photo. I'd just been like, oh, you're just another person who's calmed down. That's great. If you wanted to work out something again where you wanted to know what we're doing, that would be something probably for a later day. And again, I think you're just overthinking it going.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:44

Probably so, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're doing something bloody wonderful, yeah. Get it out of there, get it out there, just get it out of there. Yeah, yeah. No, but knowing you want to write to you. I'm doing that thing. You overthink. It's hard though when you're doing something and you're trying to do something in the best possible way with the best intentions, it's easy to overthink things. Very well. The amount of stuff, Christ, I overthink and go, Oh, shouldn't I just have people on the podcast that have got hundreds of thousands of followers? And I'm like, no, because that's not what I believe in. Yeah, I believe in shining a light on people that are just inspiring, interesting human beings. Yeah, I just want to share the stories.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:21

But those people with the hundreds of thousands of followers, I'm sure those they just love what you got going on, and they would probably want to inspire more as well. So you've got that whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:31

No, and essentially, I'm not naive to think that I'm not playing off the guests on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:36

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:37

It's that co-collaboration where yeah, and I've seen it. There's been certain guests who have really bought in a crazy amount of followers, and there's been others that haven't done as much, but it's not about that. And I've always said it's just got to be inspiring to me. It's just got to be something that hits with me.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:54

And as I said from the beginning, we'll go back to it. You, your energy, what you're doing with Shan, Zachary. I think it's just beautiful. As I say, people might go, oh, they've only got a thousand followers on social media. They're not strictly an artist.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:09

Not even that people are just we're gonna be super transparent here. But that's not what a couple of hundred, and and it they're people that have shopped with us and love what we're doing. You, as you know, mate, you know me, I couldn't be any more further from that world, but it's you've given us a chance. This is gonna be the first of many things that we will be doing in the sense of just to gotta get your business out there. Let people know what you are doing. And if someone's out there listening and you're thinking about it, take your baby steps out there and go and do what you need to do. If you feel inspired to go and do it, go and do it. What have you really got to lose? Got absolutely nothing to lose.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:46

See, and this is why I wanted to get him on people, because whether he likes it or not, he's just an inspired.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:50

We can do this, it's it's just it's just cool to see what you're doing. Because I remember when you started Creative Nowhere landing, you you were talking about starting it. That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:00

It's it's actually quite strange because 2016 is where Creative Nowhere Land sort of started.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:05

Yeah, because I remember So when we met, yeah, because you were just at one time he said to me, like, I'm not just a photographer. What does art what does creativity look like? It comes in so many different forms. We had this conversation, the base of the chat. I remember, and now you just got your part out there and we're just doing it. It's just cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:23

It's it's just cool to it's cool to see, and things sometimes take time, they take time, and it's always when you're probably banging your head against the wall and you're thinking, Oh, I can't do this anymore, and it and just around that corner, when people just give up, it'd be just around that corner that you could

Failure Lessons And Rejection Reframed

SPEAKER_01 1:23:39

have taken off. Yeah, so people won't know this, but this season has been very difficult for me. I'm not gonna go into it, but there's lots of stuff been tough, yeah. But like you say, discipline, consistency. I've shown up every time, and I'm still here doing the podcast despite all the stuff that's going on. Yeah, I'm still smiling. Life keeps punching it, yeah. But we don't need to go into it. But it's that consistency. Absolutely. Consistency, discipline. And I think for me with the podcast, it's not selfless. I get so much from it. I want to shine a light on these people. I want to see these people grow. I want to see the guests that have come on my podcast go, oh my god, can I come back on season seven? Because now I've done this. Yeah. That's where I think long term. What's going to happen if Gary comes back in two years' time? What's what's where change is going to be there?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:28

Well, does that look like, yeah, absolutely. And that's the exciting thing that you said. We just this time last year, there was like none of that. So, what's it gonna look like in two years? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:37

And I just think you being you, hopefully, people understand why I've got you on, not just because you're my mate and I want to shine a light on you and I want you and Shan and Zachary to do well. I hope people see the underlying bravery, resilience, commitment, dedication, want to stand out, want to be different. Don't want to do the nine to five like everybody else. Peace and freedom.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:03

Yeah, we just we need some more, we need some more mavericks and some pioneers out there. We do.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:08

Whether you know it or not, you will be an inspiration. It's difficult when you do stuff like this and stuff like you're doing, it feels very much like you're on your own. But every now and again you'll get a message or something that says, Oh my god, I oh, I listened to this podcast and it was amazing, and it and I'm in this situation. I'm like, wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:24

That's yeah, I mean, if you get that kind of feedback, it's great. Because one thing I will say, like, it can be very frustrating, anyone listening. Like, if you have these ideas, do you watch Peaky Blinders? Yep. So we can all feel a bit Tommy Shelby sometimes. It's frustrating for him because no one is where he's at. You have the idea, you have the vision, but everything else hasn't caught up to where you want it to get to. So that can be very frustrating, and it's okay to have a little bit of Tommy Shelby about you in the sense that when I'm careful how we say it, you've got the vision, but sometimes you can't force people to take that you get to you, can only do what you can do. And that's when I've realized things just take time, and that's all right, and that's fine, but it's a lot that you're constantly striving. We need to constantly be striving and strive. Like, for instance, you came down to the shop, seeing what it was about. That might not seem like big things, but you can see what my business is about. I've seen what your studio is about a lot more now. And this has been very motivational for myself for me to go away now and be like, I know what I want more so now to focus on. We know where change, we want to focus on getting just the quality of items that we're getting. We've done stuff earlier on, which you don't say you make mistakes, but you just suppose you do, you just think, oh, well, you know what. But everything's a lesson, everything is a lesson that I need to find. I'll wallow in some of the failures sometimes. I live there sometimes. I'm happy in the failures because it can only get better. When I say happy in the failures, it's like you do something, all right, fair enough. So not you're not dwelling on it. So when you do get it right, it makes you feel extra sweet because you're like, okay, yeah, I've done that wrong. But you get it right because you've learned the lesson from the failure.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:08

This is the so much in failure.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:11

We're scared to fail though, aren't we? And he I'm not scared to fail because it's like I'm just not at all now. Yeah, absolutely. I'm with you on that one. I don't want to turn this into an oppression of failing just like I've got more failures than you. No, no, no, no. But no, but I know what you mean. You know what you mean.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:28

I think there's a famous Michael Jordan quote. He said, I've missed way more shots than I've ever got. And it's through those shots that he's missed that he's learnt the resilience to go, right, okay, keep pushing, have discipline, learn, move forward. Keep fighting.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:43

Just keep fighting, to keep going. It's alright, just keep going. Fine. Let's get back to this. Let's enjoy where we're going, or we're trying to get to.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:51

Is this a good place for us to sort of because I feel like we've just I don't know how relevant any of this is going to be to the listeners?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:57

I mean, how long have we even been talking? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:59

No idea, brother, but it doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:00

matter doesn't matter absolutely and and i hope that people listening will take something away from me and garry having a chat yeah i've it's been awesome it's everything i'd actually i'd anyone this is just me and matt yeah by the way like this is no different and like i said you would have had other people on there with bigger followings and myself and everything like that but on behalf of where change me and chat we welcome the opportunity for us to come speak to your your community of people that you listen to because that's what it is the community of people with like minds who just want to listen for some inspiration and go out and do what we do we need more of that we need more we need to be way more united and really embrace people that have got stuff going on I love hearing about people that are just doing something if you're drawing if you're doing poems like we're all for that that's so good not knocking the person who works in finance over there no not knocking them at all but the person who's doing the poetry whether they're doing it full time part-time is just someone that has that creative element that they've got and they're running with it and then knocking themselves out and they're putting themselves out it's bravery is bravery dude and you don't combine that a lot of the time these days and these are all those people who talk talk talk when I first started this it was like you're a photographer stay in your lane and I'm sort of looking at the people that are saying this to me and going yeah but I don't want to be rude mate but I'm not gonna take advice off you because you haven't done anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:28

Oh dear you haven't backed yourself only take advice from the people that are doing the thing or you've done the thing that you want choose wisely who you uh take criticism from very true you sounding a bit Bazlerman then sunscreen if you don't know you're gonna listen to it some great words in there go listen to it. Gary what have we uh not spoken about what have you not spoken about I mean we've spoken about a lot that's probably far too off topic for this podcast and I'll probably have to edit it out but who cares?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:58

I I won't but is there anything you feel like we should have spoken about it's been a very motivational podcast in terms of inspiration but people don't on time to talk about what then maybe what they're not so much what they fear because it's very easy for you to ask me oh what do I fear and me combat it with this be like oh no no I embrace the fear and it's like what do I genuinely get worried about in terms of that I'm 42 years old now and sometimes you do look at certain things and just think I haven't really got time to waste do you see that as a positive or a negative then I don't want to do it behind the fence but both in the sense of just like okay time don't like I said wait for any of us. That's a driver. Yeah yeah it has to be yeah it really is and the fact I've got a son and the fact I've I've um I sometimes even though I'm 42 years old I think like I'm still 17 in my head sometimes I'm just like I'm not a kid.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:50

But do you think that's helpful because that gives you that you can go with naivety of just going oh I'll just do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:56

I love something and if it fails yeah I need the naivety I need that I need a bit of nonsense now and again and I need to know I'm going into a big meeting sometimes and I'm just messing about before I just thinking this could go really great or not. Yeah I gotta keep I have to keep whatever I'm doing. It's gotta be fun to me it's gotta be fun and it's too easy for it to just be like just too serious or serious it is. So what we haven't spoken about what what haven't we spoke about there might not be anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:26

No I don't as I say we have these conversations all the time so we get lost in I can't even remember probably half the stuff that we have spoken about until we go through an edit it but yeah well I must I don't know what I'm scared.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:35

You know what in terms of I don't know in terms of scared scared about I think sometimes the area that the business is in like violence happening and a couple of other things sometimes I'm thinking is that going to affect like where we're at and what we can do but then I'll just like I say all of that. The community has embraced us the people in the area and yet again optics it's easy to seem like oh god I think any city these days anybody yeah any city these days is gonna have the crime the violence the stuff I know you've got people listening all around the world as well obviously which it will be very different.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:10

Yeah but I think that goes back to the inspiration that perhaps you and Shan don't see perhaps there's people on that high street that might have been headed down the wrong path but maybe have come to your store or seen your store and gone look at these people they're doing so much good that again pay it forward idea might not but oh that's encouraged me to start my thing or maybe to live a little bit more thoughtfully of other people. Yeah but we can't live in fear I think we've nothing would get done but also I think you and I have put ourselves in positions through our lives that what some people might call dangerous positions that people would never put themselves in. And we volunteered to do them. I will do that yeah it's not a problem but yeah but again that builds resilience it builds determination there's a confidence that comes with doing and throwing yourself into things but yeah I I hope people take away from this podcast what I want them to the fact that I mean I started off by saying it I love you very much brother my energy changes when I'm around you I feel lighter I feel yeah that just someone I can bounce ideas off someone who's like minded who wants to inspire others because essentially this is the unofficial tagline of the podcast to inspire people to do the stuff that inspires them and you and Shan and Zachary and your dad can't forget your dad a shiny example of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:35

I appreciate you brother I appreciate you and we appreciate the opportunity giving us a chance to speak about where change like I said where it's going where we hope it can go and also what we want people to get out of it. So whether you're someone visiting the shop or someone listening now or whatever with the power of the internet the world doesn't seem so small anymore doesn't seem so big sorry anymore so if you're inspired by anything like you said that you heard anybody wants to reach out we are all for building building some connections really I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:06

Reach out follow these guys on social media we'll share all the links to all of that sort of stuff that'd be fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:11

Go on the website buy a funky coloured shell suit if you're in Guatemala listening to this I think the shell suit needs to come back to Guatemala absolutely absolutely absolutely for wherever you are in the globe we've got a little something and also as well we love hearing we do send stuff out here there and everywhere we've got certain messages from people in Mexico and places that we sent a few things and we get messages back from people which is amazing which I just personally love and I just think wow like we sourced this item we've done something with it and now a person who's like living in Mexico or we've sent stuff out and stuff and you just think that's weird isn't it that is what we want like we love it. We absolutely love it. So still for a small market shop we've got global reach Gary well dude this is the thing is when you break it down like that it's just cool in it yeah numbers and finances is what the made world makes go round for a lot of different things but I just think wow like I've got this item and it's going to come in Iceland like that's awesome gotta keep embracing the fun brother we gotta keep embracing the fun we we do we do just need to keep pushing the envelope because the corporates are out there and I don't want to demonize corporates or anything like that but I love to see the individual baker I like to see the independent butcher the grocer I like to see the guy who's an artist and he's got his store and he lives by the seashore and he's doing what he's doing. I like to see the person he's got the t-shirt print business I like to see the person who's a poet I like I just love seeing it. We love seeing it a lot of people who are part of our who come into our business the crazy people they love elements of stuff like that and that needs to be highlighted more as well a lot of people who have that mindset where they love to see individuality and that needs to be highlighted more it really does sometimes I see certain people in the same charity shop we're at and I'm just like I know that they would love the stuff that we've got I can tell they're looking for something which is just a little bit more brighter and lighter and a bit more funky and a lot cheaper as well can I just say so an item that you could see in central Birmingham or London or wherever it is that you're gonna be is just a lot cheaper because we want people to actually buy the stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:24

Yeah we're all for it and we don't know where we're gonna be next but we look forward to it brother we look forward to it and that seems like a good place to sort of pull all this to a close go and buy stuff from Gary and Chan's wear chain shop.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:38

Or come or if you don't come and come and share with us come and link up with us in any kind of any way or shape or form you can and there'll be stuff for you to buy if you'd like to buy. And like we said earlier if you are you know if you are a designer you have your own clothing range or an artist or whatever reach out to these guys because you know they're happy to if you find the right collaborations and things like that you're happy to have a rail of someone's designs and all that absolutely we we embrace it and we welcome it we'll be doing events in the future where we'll be doing pop-ups especially with other independents one of the plans that you have said before we would love to build up our own market of other independent people doing something regular. There's a lot of markets and artisan markets and craft markets and other stuff which is great but but I'd love to just have a market where it's it's a bit of a mix of everything. It would be cool to just get an indoor space where you could just be open specifically for people who are just like yeah this is a bit of us and reasonable pricing. I go to a lot of markets and I'm like why is this t-shirt £42? Wow because it's a vintage band T. Does it need to be £42 if it's resale value where me and Shan literally see the stuff and we're like that's £20 at best this is still fabric. Okay well it's attached to it but we're trying to take that element out of it as well where we just know clothing is just going to get back into circulation he's gonna come back someone else is going to grab it have it for a bit sell it to someone it's just gonna get background again that literally is what happens literally is what happens saying let's give the clothing the chance but let's give ourselves the chance people let's go make something happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:16

Oh well that seems like a perfect place.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:19

Gary we do have a closing tradition on the Creative No Man podcast where we ask for someone in your world your network that you think might be an interesting future guest on the podcast and also some sort of quote that resonates with you that we can leave the listeners to the podcast with okay so the person I'd like to get back on is a good friend of mine a brother to me his name's Ben Ben Paltney he is an illustrator he does a lot of different artwork but he does I don't just want to say pictures but literally draws the time of places that he's in and he characterizes them and and they're becoming a real staple especially in London where he lives so there's a lot of different art and galleries and cafes and stuff that you go in and he takes his inspiration from the places where he's at and incorporates that into his work and he's constantly promoting he does the social media for us he's constantly promoting what he's doing yet again like yourself does it all by himself and I think it'd be great for him to get some of his work out there again especially sounds like a cool and in terms of a quote I've said quite a few different things throughout this but one of the things I'd say and I'm gonna use this quite broadly because it relates to people who are creatives and trying to get the stuff out there I would say rejection is a sign of redirection that's probably what I would aim with not at all it's what I think like a beautiful sound bite. Yeah it's one thing I would say that does apply it's just in life and if you look back at everything that hasn't worked out for you something else has and like I said before it's not sometimes where you want to be it's not sometimes obviously like where um the plan. Yeah it's like no matter what it is where something may have been worse something in that time has probably improved and if it hasn't or something you can't tangibly see then obviously that may be a maybe a bit more digging or something that you need to need to look at to see yeah I mean because not everything is obvious like I said I don't ever want to just put a broad statement on stuff for stuff because we know life is way more complex oh there's always lots of variables for everybody to absolutely but I think that's a that's a great way to end this. It's been cool brother I've never had a chance to just I think I've never just chatted just publicly like this this is the first thing like this I've ever really done but this has been very very cool. I think there should be more platforms for people to do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:42

It's very good well I think I just hope it makes a difference in some way and I hope it draws people to what you and Shan are doing wear chain go and follow them on socials find the website buy some stuff if you're that person in Guatemala that wants to show for shouting out Guatemala on this I don't know why Guatemala I think it's because the other day I looked and I was like oh 14 people have listened in Guatemala shout out to people in Guatemala that's amazing Guatemalan people absolutely anybody listening just wherever wherever that is that's cool. That's just cool yeah and thanks for having me and having us me being a representative for where change we look forward to well yeah we look forward to I love you brother I love you and uh little Zachary he's got some fine parents and fine people around him setting a wonderful example just like your mum did for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:31

Yes that's yeah we've we've got such a strong support network everybody mother in law father in law all my in-laws as well as the my my family that we've got there we were very blessed.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:44

We say you're blessed but it's all a result of you never forget that if you and Sham weren't amazing people you wouldn't have an amazing network. So let's decide that so brother so we'll just leave it there shall we Gary love you brother love you to you my man thank you everyone thanks for listening to the Creative Nobeland podcast.

Final Quote And Closing Requests

SPEAKER_01 1:42:03

If you found anything in this episode useful or inspiring please consider subscribing or sharing it with a friend. You can also help the podcast by clicking the support the show link in the show notes or by grabbing yourself something from the Creative Nobelland shop. And here's the bonus when you join the community through our website you'll get a special discount code that gives you free shipping on all orders. So before you buy anything be sure to join the community every bit of support helps us keep sharing these inspiring stories. So thanks again for listening and until next time explore inspire and create better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing than a long life spent in a miserable way so important to consider this question what do I desire to do