THE CREATIVE NOWHERE LAND PODCAST

#0041 TERRI TROVATO - AI FASHION CREATOR!

• CREATIVE NOWHERE LAND • Season 2 • Episode 41

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Welcome to the Creative Nowhere Land Podcast. 

This might be a controversial one, but on this episode I'm joined by AI creator, marketer, and also self-confessed romantic, Terri Trovato. 

Now, before anyone sees the words AI and starts immediately reaching for the pitchfork, I think it's important to say that this conversation isn't really about technology. It's about creativity 

Terri's journey began long before AI entered the mainstream. She worked on the edges of the fashion industry, assisting stylists in New York and trying to carve out a place for herself in a world that often felt difficult to access.

Fashion was always the dream, but like so many other creative people, she found herself constantly looking through a window rather than being invited through the door. 

And then AI arrived. What started as simple curiosity quickly became an obsession, and armed with years of experience in styling, photography, advertising, and fashion, Terri discovered a new way to bring the images in her imagination to life. For the first time, she could create exactly what she saw in her mind without needing a studio, a model, a photographer, or even the actual clothes. 

Since then, her work has caught the attention of major fashion brands, taken her to Paris Fashion Week, led to collaborations with international fashion houses, and opened doors that she spent years trying to unlock through much more traditional routes 

In this conversation, we talk about Terri's route into the fashion industry, the frustrations of trying to break into a notoriously difficult world, and how an unexpected fascination with AI became the creative outlet that she'd been searching for.

We explore the relationship between technology and creativity, discuss the difference between art and commerce, and ask whether AI is really something that artists should be afraid of. 

We also discuss gatekeeping, creative identity, and feeling like the ultimate imposter, but also what it feels like to finally be seen after years of feeling overlooked. 

Whether you're excited about AI, sceptical of it, or somewhere in between, I think you'll find this a really interesting conversation. 

Check out the links to Terri's social media to see some of her AI creations! 

Hope you enjoy this episode of The Creative Nowhere Land Podcast.

TERRI TROVATO INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/territrovato.ai/

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Welcome And The AI Anxiety

SPEAKER_00

Hello everyone and welcome to the Creative Nobel Am podcast. This might be a controversial one, but on this episode, I'm joined by AI Creator, Marketer, and also self-confessed romantic, Terry Travato. Now, before anyone hears the words AI and starts immediately reaching for the pitchfork, I think it's important to say that this conversation isn't really about technology, it's about creativity. Terry's journey began long before AI entered the mainstream. For years she worked on the edges of the fashion industry, assisting stylists in New York and trying to carve out a place for herself in a world that often felt difficult to access. Fashion was always the dream, but like so many other creative people, she found herself constantly looking through a window rather than being invited through the door. And then AI arrived. What started as simple curiosity quickly became an obsession. An armed with years of experience in styling, photography, advertising, and fashion, Terry discovered a new way to bring the images in her imagination to life. For the first time, she could create exactly what she saw in her mind without needing a studio, a model, a photographer, or even the actual clothes. Since then, her work has caught the attention of major fashion brands, taken her to Paris Fashion Week, led to collaborations with international fashion houses, and opened doors that she spent years trying to unlock through much more traditional routes. In this conversation, we talk about Terry's route into the fashion industry, the frustrations of trying to break into a notoriously difficult world, and how an unexpected fascination with AI became the creative outlet that she'd been searching for. We explore the relationship between technology and creativity, discuss the difference between art and commerce, and ask whether AI is really something that artists should be afraid of. We also discuss gatekeeping, creative identity, and feeling like the ultimate imposter, but also what it feels like to finally be seen after years of feeling overlooked. You can check out the links to Terry's work while you're listening to the podcast, of course, but whether you're excited about AI, skeptical of it, or somewhere in between, I think you'll find this a really interesting conversation. So let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, this might be quite a controversial one though, because bearing in mind that a lot of the listeners of the Creative Nobel Am podcast are very much artists, creatives, and I'm not going to make a sweeping generalization, but perhaps they're a little bit adverse to AI, shall I say?

SPEAKER_01

Adverse. Yeah, that's a nice way of putting it. A lot of people just fucking hate it.

SPEAKER_00

But this is kind of what I wanted to get you on because at the moment it is a controversial subject, I guess, for a lot of people, especially in the art world.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But can you explain a little bit about what it is you do?

SPEAKER_01

So I'm somebody who just got into this because I was curious. You know, when it first came out, everybody was talking about AI, and there was like a general fear I was afraid when it first came out.

SPEAKER_00

What were you afraid of when it first came out?

SPEAKER_01

You know, I'm somebody who grew up in the 90s. I've seen Terminator, so that's what I thought this whole thing was going to be. And it very well still might be like that moving forward. But basically, once I started looking into the image generation, it was it was just a curiosity because you know me. You and I used to style some sheets together.

SPEAKER_00

Should we talk about that? Like your background in fashion, styling, production.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe it would offer a bit more context.

Fashion Dreams And Locked Doors

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Okay, let's do that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because you and I worked together on a couple shoots. We did a really, really lovely one in my apartment with this gorgeous model who made off with my lingerie because she looked way better in it. Um, but I always had an interest in fashion. When I graduated college, I wanted to be a stylist. Moved to New York. I styled for a couple different stylists. I was their assistant and for this Japanese magazine at the time. But you know, it doesn't pay. But I would always like try to get in on as many shoes as I could. I always wanted to be Grace Cottington. That was my that was my dream, my goal.

SPEAKER_00

And but that's it, isn't it? Is like fashion is your background. So it seems like a natural stepping stone that you were trying to Well, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01

I don't even know if you could say fashion was my background because I was always like if there was a glass door, I was always smashing my face up against it because I love fashion, I do, but it was always the barrier of entry. So I would try all these different ways, and my main thing is styling, but I would never like as close as I would get, the door would always get somehow put in front of me. And I don't know if it was just because I wasn't networking properly, I was young, I didn't quite know what I was doing. So I always had this interest, but I was always kind of like on the outside, and I also needed to make money, so I started getting into more practical things like advertising, because at least there you could still be creative. Yeah. So I started doing like all the social media marketing. This was when it was brand new and nobody really integrated social media with marketing. And a lot of brands that I was working for were like, we don't need this. But it took some convincing to make them see, like, no, this is where tech is headed, this is where social media is headed, and it started to be more integrated with businesses. We need to start looking at this on a practical level and see if we can like use it to promote your business. And then that took off. So it was just all this.

SPEAKER_00

Balancing the two together, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, I just basically kind of left fashion in the wayside for a few years. Um I would come back to it every once in a while. If there was a show I could attend, I would. And then when I moved to Spain, I was still moving on with paid ads and starting to work more with actual clothing brands. So that kind of got me a little bit more into it. Um, and then when everything with AI came out, you know, we've we've done some shoots, you and I. And they, you know, I did some practical, like stylist, actual full-blown shoots here, and I was never happy with the result.

SPEAKER_00

So can we reframe that? You were never happy with the results apart from our shoot.

SPEAKER_01

R came out great. I loved ours. And it was the most simple like it was just natural lighting in my apartment on the roof with arena.

SPEAKER_00

Just like when you've got great styling, great model, great location, yeah. My job's super easy. So yeah, I just wanted to caveat that that it wasn't my shoe that was mixed up in that. Our shoe was fucking beautiful.

SPEAKER_01

It came out lovely. The rest of them came like dog shit.

SPEAKER_00

But it is hard, isn't it, when you're trying to build your name as say it, solely a stylist. You have to do all the tests, and sometimes you're working with photographers or whatever that might not be as up to scratch as you want to.

SPEAKER_01

So was that the frustration? Yeah, it's just you know, I'm putting in all this work and I'm thinking, wow, I'm actually I have the time, I'm really gonna focus on making this a thing. I'm gonna, you know, make a name for myself as a stylist. But every test shoot, I don't know if it's my fault, it could have been my fault, but I just there was so much planning. We had amazing clothing, we had amazing hair, makeup, and the shots still came out looking, you know, subpar. And it just like it just completely, I was like, all right, this is clearly I'm not meant for this, maybe I should just give up.

SPEAKER_00

So well, I've worked with you, Terry, so I know that's not true. Our suit was beautifully styled, beautifully produced. You did all of it, I just sort of rocked up with the camera.

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, but I mean, how many times, especially when you're trying to build a port, you know, that's worth showing, you know, that was one out of So what so what are you saying?

SPEAKER_00

Are you sensibly saying that all of these bad photographers in Barcelona led you to AI?

SPEAKER_01

I am not saying there are bad photographers in Barcelona. I'm saying maybe I was not a very good CD, you know?

SPEAKER_00

But Well, I've worked with you, so I would disagree with that. So I think maybe you just needed to get better photographers over.

SPEAKER_01

You're just trying to hype yourself up. Yeah, a little bit. Good. Yes, everything I should have just worked with you 100%.

SPEAKER_00

Solely, it could have been the most beautiful team, and we could have gone on to do big things, and then you just didn't want me to come over anymore.

SPEAKER_01

What?

SPEAKER_00

So AI has taken over and it's led you down a whole different course.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, see, actually, that's basically what happened. That's basically

Curiosity Turns Into Image Making

SPEAKER_01

what happened. So eventually I um went straight back into paid ads. But in this point, I was starting to work more with bigger brands in fashion. So I was working with Conde Nest, and they have a branded content division for the UK, and I was basically running all of their ads. So if Tiffany's, for example, wanted to put an ad in Vogue, like British Vogue, I would be managing those campaigns and things like that. So I was starting to feel like I was getting my foot in the door a little bit. And then that led into other work. Like I started working with a brand called Marquesa. So I've been with them for about three and a half years now. And Edward, the CEO, he and I have a really good relationship. And it's actually Marquesa where I kind of got the intro into AI, but using it for work because again, everything started coming out about AI image generation. So I'm like, and I just got curious one afternoon and I sat down on my laptop and I'm like, you know what? I just want to see what I can what I can do. Yeah. So I came up with this shoot idea in my head, and I always had this thing for English countryside. I don't know, tartan and tweed, like, and what do you call it? Wellies? I love I love all of it.

SPEAKER_00

Wellies, that's the circle. I love it with American wellies.

SPEAKER_01

What?

SPEAKER_00

I love perfect.

SPEAKER_01

I love it. So basically, I sat there one day and I'm just like, you know what? Do this, this color. I had no idea how to prompt. And it spat back out an image. It was way fucking better than I thought it would be. I thought it was gonna look like shit.

SPEAKER_00

Even with this like inability, you never prompted before, and I'm assuming that's something that you learn as as you as you go on.

SPEAKER_01

Like, because at first I'm just like, hi, can you just type this thing in? And it gave me an image that actually looked not bad, considering the fact that this had just come out and this was brand new. So I was like, oh shit, the second I saw that I felt like a door opened or windows opened, everything opened. I'm like, wow, there's a lot of potential with this. If we can tailor this to actually make you can make like any kind of editorial image, any kind of merchandising image, any like you can make anything you want. This could be a game changer. So I started fiddling with it, and it was one of those things where I just kept going. Um, and it would be like I'd be on it for 12 hours. It'd be like middle of the night, Austin's like, my husband, he'd be like, Okay, you you need to go to bed. And it just got to that point where I was became like a bit obsessed with it because at the end of the day, I do love fashion. I wanted to be a stylist. This, like, I didn't need anybody. No offense, I didn't need you. I didn't need makeup, I didn't need a model, I just needed my head.

SPEAKER_00

And that knowledge that you've got from all those years, again, I suppose the fashion inputs, the photography inputs, this is all contributing to your knowledge base to give the prompts, right?

SPEAKER_01

Well, as I was doing the prompts, I started seeing, okay, I need to be way more specific. And as you prompt over and over again, these little all little tweaks make a huge difference. And all of a sudden I'm like, well, why don't I think about you know, lighting? Why don't I think about the type of camera? Why don't I think about the aperture? Why don't I think about the color grading? Why don't I think and start putting all of that in there?

SPEAKER_00

And this is why you were staying up till stupid o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_01

Kind of, yeah. Like, you know, time of day, the lighting, the mood, the the movement, like you know, all of that stuff starts getting like kind of integrated into it. And this was still when it was pretty rudimentary as far as like building an image, but the tech has also gotten so crazy now that you can go as detailed as you can.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, it's not just still images now. You're doing sort of on videos and it was still images for a while though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It really was. I think for about the first year and a half, it was just focusing on still. And then when videos came out, they looked rough. Like video looked really rough at first. I don't know if you got a chance to see any of those when those first appeared.

SPEAKER_00

We'll share obviously your account, but on your account, you've actually done an amazing comparison. It's probably not that long ago, like from a couple of years ago, you did a rooftop fashion show video, and then and even that was like later on.

SPEAKER_01

I mean like the first iterations, they looked oh right. It was basically the most pixelated, you can't tell what what you're looking at at all. So I just went like, oh well, this is abstract. I'm just gonna call it an abstract video because you have no fucking idea what you're looking at.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so you're experimenting with these images and things just because you're curious. Yeah, I was just And then did you actually go and present some of this to some of your clients?

SPEAKER_01

Well, actually, I started making all these images, and my first thought was I'm starting to get a couple of images I like. Maybe I should just make like an Instagram account and just post this just for fun. And everything was just for fun. So that's how it like my account kind of got started because I already had the stylist account, my Instagram account, but I wasn't posting anything on it because I had given up. So I'm like, well, why don't I just build off that and see if anyone's interested?

SPEAKER_00

You say you've given up. So did this at all essentially, this AI tool, give you that chance to feel more creative? This AI thing allows you to dip into the world where exactly you don't need stylists, you don't need models, you don't need lighting, you don't need sets, you don't need makeup artists. Yeah, it's you can just play to your heart's content.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And I can make whatever is in my head. And when I have the proper prompts, I can make it look exactly how I want to. Like if there's if I want to change the lighting, if I want to change an outfit, if I want to change the setting, if I want to change the time of day, I can change everything. I can make it go from like, you know, a really deep cinematic, like a 35mm shot, or I could have like shallow depth of field and I can make it look more editorial, I can make it look more great.

SPEAKER_00

So you're only limited essentially by your own knowledge.

SPEAKER_01

Essentially, yeah. And it made me also more appreciative of photographers, of makeup artists, because you know, all the stuff that they know, I had to start learning like what these terms actually meant because it made me um basically just better at prompting and making sure that like I could get the same kind of image that a photographer could get.

SPEAKER_00

But presumably, as I say, from your background, you were knowing what what a makeup artist does on a shoot, what I do on a shoot.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that integration is is interesting. So you started an Instagram account. Was it popular? Did you get some I was gonna say, did you get some No, not at all.

SPEAKER_01

They did a spy styling account. One where we were posting like our photos of the arena, and I was just starting out with that. So no, it was not popular at all. So nobody missed it, you know? So I figured, okay, this is fine. This is a place where I can basically put the images that I like, just so I can have a little bit of a I don't know, I guess a gallery or something. And I started to notice other people were doing it too, because this was in the very, very early days, and there weren't that many accounts that were doing this, but it got very crowded very quickly. Um, but as the tech started to get better, the software updated, I tended to focus on mid-journey. That's where I like to make my images. They added more updates, they added more versions, the quality got a lot better. You started to see more people using it.

Testing AI For A Real Brand

SPEAKER_01

And then again, I told you I was working with Marquesa, and it was one summer we were kind of in between shoots, and uh we needed new content because I run all their paid media. So that was the first time I'm sitting there and just like, you know, not for nothing, but like I spoke to the CEO. I'm like, let me just do a test run. Give me a gown that we need to that we want to shoot for a creative, because I know we don't have any right now. We're recycling the same ones, it's gonna cost us 16k for another shoot, and that's not even for another three months. What if I just kind of took AI and let's see what we can do with it? And he was like, Yeah, sure, fine, whatever.

SPEAKER_00

And when I gave him the images back, there wasn't any kickback from them. They were just let's do it.

SPEAKER_01

We know, because we were in that position where it's like, you know, what are we gonna do? We need something. So I'm like, why don't you just give me a shot? We don't have to post it, but let me see if you like it. And then when I showed it to him, he was just like, Oh, okay, yeah, this this works. Let's go ahead and use it. So I'm like, great. So I plugged in uh a couple images and I used the dresses that we had, made sure the reference was exact because that's really important when it comes to working with brands. There's no deviation from how they actually look.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then we posted to see how it did and see if first if people noticed if it was AI, and second, if it would perform well with paid ads, and nobody noticed, and our ads actually integrated with it perfectly because they're starting to integrate AI into Meta anyway.

SPEAKER_00

So at this point, is this a time when I suppose when you post these things on social media now, you have to notify people that it's made with AI, don't you?

SPEAKER_01

You have to label it, but when it comes to ads, no.

SPEAKER_00

Really?

SPEAKER_01

I've never had anything on paid ads ask me to label anything that's made with AI. But if it's organic, you do. Which is interesting. I've never even I have never even thought never thought about that. Weird. That is weird. Yeah. On organic, you have to have there's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00

You have to notify, don't you? Anyway, that's so the brand went for it.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

What does that feel like for you then? Does that open more doors?

SPEAKER_01

It was cool because for the first time a major brand was showing an image that was my work. And I know it wasn't, you know, a physical shoot, but everything on it was my idea. The model was my idea. The only thing that wasn't mine was the the clothes but it was the first time my work was on a page that was part of a major brand. It was what I was working for my entire life, and I did it in like a week. Wow. So yeah, it was like, holy shit, there's something here.

SPEAKER_00

So at this point, is it still just a bit of fun, or are you referring to yourself as a AI artist, a fashion creator?

Feeling Like A Fraud Online

SPEAKER_00

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

I guess that's why I'm asking, really, because it's difficult to I feel like a fraud saying anything like that.

SPEAKER_01

Because I also know there's so much resistance against AI, and I don't want it to feel like I'm coming in for your job, and I don't want it to feel like I'm this.

SPEAKER_00

But should we talk about that? Because essentially, if you do what you do, I somewhere down the line, I can't do what I do, makeup artists can't do what they do, stylist doesn't do what they do, model doesn't do what they do, we're all out of work. I'm not putting this solely on the street. No, I don't.

SPEAKER_01

I'm just saying, where does I don't think we'll ever lose the human element ever.

SPEAKER_00

Why? Why do you say that? Bearing in mind if people do look at your videos, they'll look at them and go, holy fuck.

SPEAKER_01

Because we're already seeing evidence of it. We're already seeing evidence of pushback. Like people, the whole analog movement and Gen Z, you know, wanting to meet in person, and there's already evidence that we still need that human connection. I think this is going to be just more of a tool for brands who are in a bit of a pinch, or they just need something quickly to hold them over, kind of like what happened with Marquesa. It's like we need something just for our our social content. We need to get something out quickly. Can we just do this while we're in between the big shoots?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so this is more sitting on the level of commerce and not art.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Commerce merchandising the sites. That's a big one too. For the most part, if a if a site or a brand is going to showcase all of their different pieces, that's an entire shoot day. And for the most part, you need to hire a more expensive model because you have to shoot a lot of things quickly and you need somebody who really knows what they're doing. That can be time consuming. And I've seen a lot of brands in the last year kind of move more towards AI just so they can save money on that process and spend more on like other things. You know, if they did want to do a bigger shoot, if they did want to do something different, they didn't have to spend a whole day focusing on that, they could focus on other stuff. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Have you had any sort of obvious pushback though from people like commenting going saying negative stuff or honestly?

SPEAKER_01

Not really. I had like one comment one time saying, Oh, AI, you know, like that. But I've never really had anything negative. It's actually been quite supportive, but it's within the AI community who normally sees my stuff. So yeah, I think we're all anyone who does AI, if you meet anyone, we're not it's like the normal people who just sit by next thing.

SPEAKER_00

No, I think you're painted as wearing like a black cloak over your head and trying to bring down every industry under the sun, which is not true. Essentially, you came at it from a It's just a curiosity. You're a creative, essentially, Terry.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. I just found a different outlet out.

SPEAKER_00

You just found a different outlet.

SPEAKER_01

That's exactly how I feel. And I don't think it'll ever take place or replace, you know, human creation or something that's done in person. There's just such a it's no different than when, you know, Pixar started moving towards the digital kind of you know, toy story, that kind of thing. It's beautiful in its own art, like finding Nemo or anything like that, the art's gorgeous, but if it's not going to replace anything that was hand-drawn.

SPEAKER_00

But I think that's interesting, that relationship between art and commerce. Whereas you're not trying to sort of say, Oh, I'm an AI artist producing art for your walls, because see, this is where I'm conflicted. I can see how brands commerce will use AI. Yeah. And me as a photographer, I have to prepare in some ways for that. But me as an artist, AI doesn't worry me in terms. Of art in converted commas, because you walk into someone's living room and you've got a beautiful piece of artwork on the wall, you wonder, wow, that's incredible. Tell me the story behind that.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, it's it's AI.

SPEAKER_00

Midjourney made that for me last night. I just had an idea and I wanted it to look a bit like this. Like, oh, it's a bit doesn't hit, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01

It doesn't hit, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00

Rather than, you know, I was checking up a mountain in Peru and I found this artist who was making work out of clay on camera, but you know, there's no story, there's no soul, there's no heart.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And that can't be replaced, that can't be duplicated. And I don't want to, I don't want people to think like that's what at least I'm trying to do. I don't think so. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And I don't want people to listen to this and come at you going, fucking Terry, fucking AI, ruin the art world. It should be made by hand because I'm trying to give the listeners who are, I'm not gonna say all, but I think will probably have quite when they see AI in the title to this problem, they'll probably have a negative, but it'll be that kind of morbid curiosity where they'll want to come in and listen because they're a little bit afraid of it. Yeah, I think there's so much that can be learned from talking to you about how AI can be used, but also it's not art. I don't I think you have to put art in a different bracket. Yes, brands and stuff are going to be using, and that is a whole different conversation. If I have my photographer hat on, I go, it worries me a bit, but I mean, you're it's sort of more high fashion your stuff anyway, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean that's the lane that I really like, but then you see like it's movie industry's kind of opening up towards it. It just depends on like whatever the artist see you have me calling artists. Now, I don't know, I don't I wouldn't consider us artists, I would consider us designers. I feel like that's kind of like our lane.

SPEAKER_00

You're still creating, but it's just like you say, it's a different form. You're creating using your inherent knowledge of fashion styling, the industry, visuals, yeah, to still create something, but it's you're using a tool.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and that's all it is. It's like I said before in uh another interview, somebody asked me about it. I'm like, I'm sure people were a little skeptical when the photograph came out, and painters didn't really like that. Well, great, we're gonna be put out of work now, but I don't think it didn't replace painting, it just found its own lane. It just found its own lane. And I think right now we're in that transition period where everybody, especially when it first came out, everyone's like, oh my god, it's gonna take my job. And I think now people are starting to realize no, it's just gonna be its own thing. And even within the AI lane, you have AI slop, and then people who do it for brands that have a bit more I don't know, or even does that even sound a bit No, I no, I think, but again, it's all down to your input. Well, that's what I think. If you go, oh, I'm a I don't I don't want to put down uppity either. That sounds shitty.

SPEAKER_00

No, but because you've done the work before AI came in. You were cutting your teeth, as it were, on the streets of New York, trying to be styling assistants, working for brands, trying to work your way. You've done, yeah, the paid advertising got you into Condé Nas, but you're still in that fashion world. All of those inputs are still there. So people can't be mad at you for having all this knowledge and then using a tool to get it out there.

SPEAKER_01

That's the thing, is you know, a lot of brands like and the other thing that's a bit of hip uh hypocritical for brands is like they'll come in and say, oh, AI is terrible, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then they'll also use it for their, like I said, for their merchandising, for their paid social. Like they'll find someone who's really, really skilled to make it look as realistic as possible. Or they'll be a bit more uh upfront about it. Like there are some brands who really are embracing it and see it as not something that's going to replace how they present themselves to their users, but they just see it as another way that they could. Like one brand that is called Carden, they are a Couturier from Paris. And their whole brand is all about their designs, they are very futuristic and very space-age. So it was like a natural integration for them. They're like, oh, this is cool. Like, maybe we could do some AI stuff and make it look really AI. It doesn't even look realistic. Like, but we want to integrate it with our real life design and see what we can do there. Like, they see the possibilities of it.

SPEAKER_00

And your work is so how do I describe it? It is high-end. I look at it, I'm like, wow. So when I see the stuff that you're doing, and the fact that this has opened a lot of doors for you, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_01

More than I more than I thought.

SPEAKER_00

In the sense of Pierre Cardin, these designers, but you're you're talking about AI to rooms of people, and you're off to CAN soon for these things. And it's it's just seemed to have that styling didn't get you there. It's weird how it this was the thing that But the AI has propelled you into this high fashion world that you were trying to break through, knocking on every door and having them felt like slammed in your face.

SPEAKER_01

Well, you know why? Because I never got a chance to actually make an image that I was happy with that I felt like really expressed like my creative. I couldn't get what was in my head to manifest in real life.

SPEAKER_00

But that's what every creative goes to see. I see a photograph in my head and I go, if I can't do that, there's probably no point in doing it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I was just like I think that's artists, you know, you see the blank canvas, you go, I sort of feel what I know this is gonna look like, but then it doesn't get there and it's that disappointment. Whereas you can do all that work, but then you might only have to change one prompt within the thing to go, oh, actually that's changed it to look exactly how I want. Whereas the quote unquote artist crazies has to start the blank canvas again.

SPEAKER_01

But now, like people can actually see what I meant. And that's I think why all of a sudden doors are starting to open a bit more, because my it's it's what I intended. It's what I intended. It's not, you know, I would try before with all these shoots apart from yours, and I wouldn't get there. And no wonder people slammed the door with my face because it wasn't what I it just wasn't what I wanted, and I felt like it was subpar. And now all of a sudden I can give you exactly what I had in mind, and people are seeing it. It's like for the first time I feel seeing.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And for any creative, that is it's actually yeah, I didn't realize how that was a big thing for me.

SPEAKER_00

And like I said, it's open doors. Can you talk a little bit about some of the experiences you're getting to have? People see you holding microphones, talking to crowds of people about it, you're off to Cam.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I mean, that was the microphone. That was there was a Fashion AI expo that was part of Paris Fashion Week a couple months ago. And I got invited by the organizer to basically come and at first she wasn't very clear. She's like, I saw your work, would love for you to come and speak. And I was like, Oh, I thought this was like, but she's like, Could you also maybe like put together a presentation? And I was like, Oh, she's like, Can you also do this as a presentation for Pierre Cardin? Because Rodrigo Cardin is gonna be there. I was just like, What the fuck is happening? And it just turned into this whole thing where I had two basically runway shows that I had built to present, but I didn't understand the scope of what this event was gonna be until I

Paris Fashion Week Changes Everything

SPEAKER_01

was in the room. And it was amazing because it was about AI, and the organizer had brought in not just me, but people who represented AI in every facet of the fashion industry for like websites where you can digitally try on the clothing, people who are using AI to integrate the whole, I don't know, merchandising workflow. It's like a bunch of people came up and spoke, and then at the end, it was my turn to present, and it was in front of the head of Pierre Cardin, and I was like sweating bullets.

SPEAKER_00

How did you feel in that moment?

SPEAKER_01

Oh god, I was like, I was like so nervous. And also in between that, there were real fashion shows happening. So they had a bunch of designers there, and the models were walking up and down in their actual clothing, and then Pierre Cardin came with their models and their actual clothing, and they did a little fashion show for us, and then it was just like, okay, Terry, you get up, and now it's your turn to show this this thing that you made and show it to the head of Pierre Cardin. And I'm standing here just like okay. Um how did it go? Oh, I was watching his face the whole time. I wasn't even watching the thing, but I started seeing a little smile show up on his face, and I was like, Okay, maybe this isn't so bad. And it went really well. So afterwards, it was I don't know, it went really well. Doors just started opening. A couple brands wanted to work with me. Rodrigo came up to me afterwards. He's like, I think there's something that we can do together. I don't want to, I can't say much about what's happening here.

SPEAKER_00

And we don't want to jinx anything.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So it definitely opened a lot of doors. And that took me to another level, too, because Pierre Cardin is a major house.

SPEAKER_00

Huge.

SPEAKER_01

So that took me all of a sudden from these little expos or the AI Fashion Week in New York that first came out years ago, to holy shit, there might be something that's happening in Paris Fashion Week. So it's getting bigger and bigger.

SPEAKER_00

And what about Cannes? Obviously, when everyone hears Can, it's so glamorous and red carpets and all this. So Terry, go on, tell us what you're up to.

SPEAKER_01

Can is more this like this is more another speaking event, more with the Fashion AI Expo, but also I have uh a couple brands that I'm working with that are out there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

This is more paid media kind of Terry, but there is some AI fashion kind of integrated.

SPEAKER_00

Where do you want to take this? Like, where do you see this going?

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. That's the thing. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

You spoke about it sort of being integrated with your whole agent.

SPEAKER_01

It is, yeah. And it's kind of like something where I think at the end of the day, it'll be just like another service you can offer to a brand. So with my agency, I'm saying it's basically concept to sale. And a part of the concept is you need creative, but you need something quickly. Maybe you don't have the budget for a large-scale shoot. We can start small with some simple AI images, see if people respond to it, see if your brand is actually generating a buzz, and you know, we can move from there. But it's just, I think it's just gonna be a service from there that people offer.

SPEAKER_00

I'm just sat here thinking about all the people that are probably screaming at the listening to this

Turning AI Into A Service

SPEAKER_00

fucking AI. I'm still not convinced. I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_01

I know, but it's like I if somebody doesn't like it, they don't like it.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I'll I probably should. Should we talk a little bit about are we all gonna be wearing these clothes in the future anyway, or are we just gonna be living on a Mad Max drought planet because AI takes us so much water to and this isn't I'm not putting the whole environmental problem on you, Terry. I'm just saying, obviously, for anyone that doesn't know, AI uses a lot of energy, a lot of energy, a lot of water. So I just wonder, is it gonna replace fashion, or are we in 10 years' time gonna be living in this dystopian dry era? I don't know. There's nothing with screens everywhere showing us AI.

SPEAKER_01

Man, you know, at this point, we're either all gonna die from like a pandemic or aliens, or AI is gonna wake up and take over. I don't know. I just know that right now, this is fun. I'm really enjoying it. I get to be creative, and if this is the only vehicle where I can really break through, yeah, yeah, then I I will. I don't think we're taking away from anything. Like big brands are still gonna do the big shoots, smaller brands are still gonna do like the creative shoots, like you even if it's just a photographer and a model in the street. I mean, with other parts of the industry or other industries, I don't know, like because there's talk about it, films.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, we're talking it's solely from the creative industries. I I'm sure there's probably more worry in those industries that are a bit more say factual based, where you just don't need a person. You can just go and go, oh, this is the law of this or the legal ramifications of this.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that was the other reason why I started looking into it. Because when AI first came out, my first thought was, shit, I'm gonna lose my job. Because I mean, eventually you'll get a piece of AI that is it's going to integrate within Meta. And eventually there will be like an integration where it's like it's gonna optimize and build ads way better than I can and way faster. Uh and I thought, okay, within 10 years, my job is gone.

SPEAKER_00

Was that a consideration when you started? I know it was an experiment, but do you feel like that was somewhere in the back of your mind going, maybe I should have a look at something? Yeah. Really?

SPEAKER_01

But I thought of um, did you ever see the Charlie and the Chuck Factory movie with Johnny Depp?

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

So you know how in the beginning his dad, Charlie's father, worked in the factory, it was a toothpaste factory, and his job was to screw on the caps. And then eventually

Job Fear And Learning The Tool

SPEAKER_01

he got replaced by a robot. Well, by the end, he got a better job, but his job was to fix the robot that replaced him.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So that was kind of my mentality. It's just like, okay, this new thing is coming in, it's probably gonna take my job. I need to learn about it so I can stay ahead of the curve here, really.

SPEAKER_00

And the fact that deep down you are a creative. I'm not just sitting there thinking, oh, Terry's just, you know, an AI nerd that sat in her. I mean, yes, you were.

SPEAKER_01

Turning into one.

SPEAKER_00

You sat in your room and and and played for hours, but you're there until two in the morning or whatever, experimenting with ideas. But deep down that still stems from the fact that you're a creative.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it feels good. It's like this is, I feel like what a creative person would be like if they found like a groove, you know? Like if I was painting, if I was taking photos, if I was writing music.

SPEAKER_00

Is there some sort of flow? I mean, because we talk about flow state as creative. Is there a flow state in writing prompts? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

It's not writing the prompt. It's like once you start seeing images that you're like, oh, damn, that looks really good. Maybe I can tweak it a bit more. Let's try to swap out the the face, let's make it look like this. There are moments where I feel like I'm flowing. And then there's moments where I come in and I try to make some images or some videos and uh they all just look like dog shit. And um, I'm just like, all right, I'm gonna back away for a bit.

SPEAKER_00

But that's the broader creative process for everybody, isn't it? Whether you're a painter, sculptor, a photographer, whatever. Some of it's great, some of it's dog shit.

SPEAKER_01

There are some days where you're just like, wow, I hate everything and I hate myself.

SPEAKER_00

So well, that happens again. That imposterism and all that stuff happens to all of us as creative.

SPEAKER_01

And that's the thing. This is like the you can say imposterism, this is like the ultimate imposterism, because not only with AI do you feel like an impostor, but even Do you feel like an imposter?

SPEAKER_00

Even even though I mean, I guess we've discussed that they're still stemming from your inputs, but you're not doing the physical creation. So does that lead to imposterism for you?

SPEAKER_01

Okay, and I definitely understand where everyone's coming from when they're just like, fuck you. Like we can I get it, I totally get it, but I also at the same time, I'm just like, sorry, I just wanted to take something. It looks good, and somebody liked it enough to maybe buy it. So it that's it's like a weird thing where I feel like I'm a fraud, but at the same time, I know how much work

Flow State And Imposter Syndrome

SPEAKER_01

I'm putting into this. Yeah, I know how much time and dedication I put into this, and I don't I vary. I vary between feeling like, you know, like a dick, and I varied between feeling like I should own this. I put my heart and soul into this, even if it's through a machine. This is exactly this is what I had in mind. And I'm trying to also find ways to make it even more original. Because I know a big argument is like, well, it's sourcing from other pieces of art and blah blah blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_00

But are there any new ideas? We're all sourcing from our own inputs of stuff we've seen, whether we know it or not. I don't well, there's I mean, there's so much that I can look at images and go, someone will be able to reference that back to something else. Well, that's every if you watch any yeah, movie, any fashion, God, look at the people that I did my dissertation on Helmut Newton and Gibbardan and David La Chapelle, they have been ripped off more than any other photographers in history. But by other human photographers, not maybe it's because it's by another human, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01

But if it's by like this non-entity like intelligence that just kind of sources from everybody, maybe that makes it a bit more taboo.

SPEAKER_00

But then I still think that there's a whole process of you can source ideas, but you're never gonna well, you can try and replicate an image directly, or you can use it as source material.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and that's there's a big difference.

SPEAKER_00

It's like if you're gonna forge the Mona Lisa, you want it to look like the Mona Lisa. Yeah, but you But if you go, I want to reference a bit of I want it to feel like the surrealism of Gheebordan and the sexiness of Helmut Newton, but I want to mix that with Terry Trevato's own brain waves blended together. I don't know what that would look like. I wanted to do that now. Please do a Gibbardan, Helmut Newton, Terry Trevato instead of it.

SPEAKER_01

Like, write that down, I'll take it home, and I'll give you like a sample.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, that'd be good. We could use that for the reels to promote the it might look fucking terrifying. It may do. So you don't want people to be scared of AI than Terry.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think any well, look, I we don't know what this is gonna turn into.

SPEAKER_00

Like I say, it could be terminated too.

SPEAKER_01

It could. It very well could. Right now, people can think however they want about AI. I just don't think they need to see people who genuinely are like designing AI like with intention as we're not a threat. We're just trying to make our own way.

SPEAKER_00

I agree, and I think especially the art world and the creative world, we said it earlier, I think you as an AI creator, you're probably viewed with horns, a black coat, and you know, a pointy tail.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, probably. But I mean, honestly, it's it's a little tired. Like I everybody's just like, oh, you know, Vogue will write pieces or Vogue Business will write pieces on it. Every comment underneath is just like, oh, well, well, why are we talking about this?

SPEAKER_00

But it's funny you say that. That's just reminded me of a story from Tim Brett Day, photographer that was on the podcast, shot everyone from David Bowie to Grace Jones, the fashion editorials pillow. He went out to Paris, sat down with French Vogue, and was showing them digital images when they were still shooting film, and they were like, no, no, no, this will this will never count up. Within, I think, six months, they were doing the French Vogue digital issue. So it's there's gonna be purists everywhere, aren't there?

SPEAKER_01

But that's fine. That's fine. Honestly, it's almost like checks and balances. I think it's a way to maybe keep maybe it's a way to keep art like in a in a sense human. Yeah. You know, everyone's got opinions. It's not gonna stop me from doing what I do, and it's not gonna stop them from doing what they do.

SPEAKER_00

So And I think that's the understanding that I want people to maybe, as creatives and whoever's listening to this, there's a very big difference between art and commerce.

SPEAKER_01

And I think AI I think it makes more sense in commerce. It does. I mean, obviously there isn't maybe there is an art to prompting, maybe that's the actual art. But I I don't think this is ever gonna take or replace an actual photograph of a painting. It's not gonna replace any of that. It never will.

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_01

So I don't think there's a threat.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think that's probably quite a good place to leave people with a little bit of a positivity. It's not a big threat, guys. Just keep doing your thing.

SPEAKER_01

No, it'll stay in its own, it'll find its own late before it wakes up and and you know, yeah, kills us all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so people who are listening to this, don't come for Terry on social media. She's a good human being, a wonderful person, and she's just trying to create like we all are, but she's just using a different tool. No, honestly, and I think whether you're resistant to it or not, people, go and have a look at some of the stuff that I'm gonna share with this podcast because the work I know, but then look, you're cringing a little bit yourself because there's that imposterism coming in. But I want people to see it because it's pretty mind-blowing stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00

And if anyone needs to be scared, it's actually me people as a commercial photographer.

SPEAKER_01

It's not like you're fine. Nobody's gonna replace that either. And like I said, if anything else, it's for there's just some brands who want to explore. And it also it it opens things up and it makes the one thing I actually did like about this was that it is a bit of a democratization of at least in the fashion industry. Say more.

SPEAKER_00

What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01

Well, fashion's huge for what? Gatekeeping. It's kind of hard to gatekeep now when you have people like me all of a sudden kind of finding our way in the back door and speaking to, you know, Rodrigo Cardin. Yeah. How did that happen? So, in a way, it's kind of opening doors to people who might have always had them slammed in their face. And I like that bit about it, for sure.

SPEAKER_00

Well, like you say, you cut your teeth at the coal phase, having doors slammed in your face while you're trying to be a stylist in New York. So progression and no such thing as coincidence. We are where we're supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Gatekeeping Falls And Taste Matters

SPEAKER_01

So there are some people who, you know, if they're lucky that a brand notices them, or if their designs are good enough, somebody reaches out to them, like that's cool. They get a shot that they might have not necessarily had before AI was invented.

SPEAKER_00

So and that's still potentially true with anyone else. So I could put a picture on out there and some designer brand goes, oh, that's exactly the sort of thing I'd look for.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. At the end of the day, it's whatever the brand Yeah. And if they like your style, if they like you, it's AI, I think, for people like me, and what I've been hearing, is that it's not necessarily about the technique, but it's about the person who's making it, the brand, and their particular eye, like their taste. So I think that will be more of like a deciding factor when it comes to brands working with.

SPEAKER_00

And do you think that's where the soul comes into it, in the sense of if someone was just a tech wizard sat in their darkened room with their black cloak on, researching Pierre Cardin fashion brands? There's only so much without that passion for clothes styling, all those things, there's only so far you can get with just, oh, tell me who the top fashion photographers of the 70s were. Okay, I want to shoot in each one of those styles.

SPEAKER_01

But if you're not passionate about those, well, I mean, it's also it's everything is subjective, right? But you know, if you took one dress and you gave it to Annie Liebelitz and you gave it to Peter Lindbergh, and you gave it to me, we're each gonna have our own different interpretation of it. So then that's what that's when it comes down to taste.

SPEAKER_00

Even if the brief is exactly the same, right?

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And that's when it's like whatever whoever's paying for it, it's up to them what they like. But we each have our own interpretation. I just have a different tool.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So well, I think that's kind of a good place to bring it all to a close. Don't be terrified, people. So we do have a closing tradition on the Creative No Alam podcast where we ask our guests to give us some sort of quote that resonates with you, but also someone in your world, your network, that you think could be an interesting person to come on the Creative No Alan podcast in the future.

SPEAKER_01

So I mentioned before I love Grace Codington. I think she is just an absolute genius when it comes to making beautiful images and just she's an artist, really. And in a way, it's weird because I'm AI, very futuristic, but in my soul, I'm very romantic and I'm very nostalgic. And she there was it's

Romance In A Futuristic Medium

SPEAKER_01

a documentary called The September Issue, and Grace Connington was walking around Versailles, and she's just kind of looking at it and just kind of looking at the whole setting, and she's just like, No, I think I got left behind somewhere because I'm still a romantic. And I don't know why that always just really resonated with me. Because I feel the same way.

SPEAKER_00

I feel a bit the same way. I think I'm stuck in the wrong century.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's like I'm romantic. And I think that's what I'm trying to do.

SPEAKER_00

I'm trying to translate that into that's an interesting balance of the old romantic soul with the most forefront of technology.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's weird.

SPEAKER_00

That's why I always feel like I don't think that's weird, but like you say, you can delve into those, I'm thinking, you know, weathering heights, all these sort of broadly romantic, you know, deeply dark, tempestuous, all those things. You can tap into that very easily now, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I can. And I can make some images that I'm just like, there's so many things that I publish.

SPEAKER_00

Really?

SPEAKER_01

And it's just because I don't want to spam people, but I'm just like, wow, this song looks incredible. And it's exactly that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00

The stuff that you're not sharing, does that feel more personal to you?

SPEAKER_01

Maybe. Maybe it's just like a backlog of stuff. Because like I said, I'm working until four in the morning.

SPEAKER_00

So no, but I feel like you've skipped over that. You're talking about how you're deeply romantic and there's stuff that you've made that hasn't been shared. But I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe it is maybe I'd have to see that, but yeah, it's a lot of like it's sometimes I guess self conscious where I'm just like, I think you know, my I'm thinking like my Instagram account, the audience might respond better to this stuff rather than the other stuff.

SPEAKER_00

So you still have that same artist problem of thinking, should I be making for the audience or should I be making for myself? Yeah. I would love to see what you would make for yourself if you didn't have the end goal of sharing.

SPEAKER_01

Very, very uh whimsical, like old school, like kind of broad-looking images. But yeah, I don't know. It's just uh something I should start sharing more, but I just interesting.

SPEAKER_00

And what about someone in your world, your network that you think would be a good person to come and share their story on the creative new land book?

SPEAKER_01

Well, it would actually be the woman who founded the AI Fashion Expo. She's kind of a person who kind of opened a lot of doors for me because all these opportunities happened because she saw me on Instagram. She's like, hey, I'm putting this together. Would love it if you came with this expo. She's also a photographer. Wow. But she is very fascinated by AI. She's like really trying to make these experiences and kind of make AI a bit more, I don't know, digestible for the fashion industry, but also exposing artists like myself, not artists, designers. I don't know. Uh, but her name is uh Olga Gasnier. I don't want to say it wrong, Gasnier. And I think she would be really good to speak to.

SPEAKER_00

And do you think she would be do you think she'd agree?

SPEAKER_01

I think she would. She's lovely.

SPEAKER_00

Where is she based?

SPEAKER_01

She's based in Brands.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, cool. So that could be something that works for one of the future. Yeah, Paris Edition. You should go down. You you should come with me and show me around Paris.

SPEAKER_01

Uh apparently we'll be there again soon. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00

See, this is what I mean, Terry. You're such a high flyer.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, we need a long.

SPEAKER_00

And on that note, Terry, thank you so much for doing the podcast. I think this is gonna be an interesting, yet, as I said, maybe a little bit controversial because people are gonna see AOI and go.

SPEAKER_01

I know. If everyone is if people are mad at me, I'm sorry. That's all I can say.

SPEAKER_00

Don't be mad at Terry, because after this conversation, you should just know that she's just trying to create like the rest of us, but she's using a different tool. Thank you, Terry. That was wicked. Thanks for listening to the Creative Noeland Podcast. If you found anything in this episode useful or inspiring, please consider subscribing or sharing it with a friend. You can also help the podcast by clicking the support the show link in the show notes or by grabbing yourself something from the Creative Noeland shop. And here's the bonus. When you join the community through our website, you'll get a special discount code that gives you free shipping on all orders. So, before you buy anything, be sure to join the community. Every bit of support helps us keep sharing these inspiring stories. So, thanks again for listening, and until next time, explore, inspire,

Support The Show And Sign Off

SPEAKER_00

and create. Better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing than a long life spent in a miserable way. And so, therefore, it's so important to consider this question what do I desire to be?