All The Angles S1 E9: Focus on Padel in Argentina

Argentina is not a country or market to take lightly. It is one of the biggest markets in padel globally and one with a proud and long history in the sport.

So this week, we brought in two absolute heavyweights of the country to talk us through the beginnings of Argentina's adoption of padel as a national sport, the boom and the bust, the dividends of a history and dedication to the game, the tussles with tennis, its dominance on the global professional scene and what the future holds for this proud nation.

Nito Brea has been one of the most influential coaches in padel worldwide, taking names that would fill any Hall of Fame to their peaks and leading his home nation to victory across World and Continental championships. Gustavo Maquirriain has been called the "Platini of Padel" and is recognised as the world's first No1. Both were instrumental in the creation of the predecessor of today's Professional Padel Association for pro players.

In a wide-ranging discussion steeped in history, Alex Inglot looks to extract lessons and parallels with contemporary threats that padel faces: with new cycles of international circuits, with tennis stakeholders, and with economic and fashion phases that inevitably impact the development of the sport.

Transcript

Introduction

Alex 0:05

ladies and gentlemen, damas y caballeros, thank you for joining us for another episode of All The Angles, the business of padel podcast worldwide powered by the Hexagon Cup. This week, our objective is to give you our audience a unique insight into the history, present, and the future of one of the powerhouses of global padel, Argentina. I'm joined in this episode by two absolute legends of the game, I'm speaking in terms of Argentina, but also globally. We are fortunate to explore this area with Nito Brea. I will try and do justice to all the things that Nito has done in his career for padel. He started playing around the mid eighties. Created what is currently the professional padel association. From about 1990 onwards he's coached the likes of Recca, Ovide, Hernan August, Maxi Sanchez, Sanyo, and now his daughter Delfi, who is one of the top female athletes on the tour. He's also been an event director at key stops on the padel circuit including the world championships and Monte Carlo masters on the world padel tour. He has secured multiple victories leading the women's and junior Argentinian teams at various world and continental championships. And he has created and developed template coaching courses across the world from Argentina, South America, but also in Europe. Alongside him, another legend, Gustavo Maquirriain, I hope I pronounced that right. Gustavo

Gustavo Maquirriain 1:33

Close, close.

Argentina's Embrace of Padel in the 80s: How and Why

Alex 1:35

Who is recognized as probably the first professional padel number one in the world and creator of Viboras and Dormilonas He was also involved in a lot of the areas that I talked about with regards to Nito, such as the coaching, the competing, the trophies, the PPA. So thank you both for joining us. Before we get started, if you enjoy this episode or have benefited from previous ones, please like, share, subscribe. It really, really helps. So let's get stuck in. So I want to go right back to the beginning. Everyone knows that Mexico is the birthplace of padel around about 1969. But it seems that Argentina was one of the first countries to really embrace the sport, mainly in the eighties, starting with, my understanding from my research is that there were about 10 or 12 courts in 1982. A big club opened, club San Jorge, in 1984. The Argentinian Association was created in 1988, and by 1991, it was pretty much recognized as the second most popular sport behind football. So speaking to you both, why do you think it was that Argentina embraced this new sport or relatively new sport So, fully and so passionately in those early years. Uh, maybe let's start with you, Gustavo, from your perspective.

Gustavo Maquirriain 2:56

Okay. Thank you. Well the reasons are many sure, but I can assure that a couple of reasons very important. First of all, that Argentina has a tradition of tennis players, a very big tennis community. So, until the early eighties, rich people played padel in a very few places. In the early eighties, the tennis community embraced padel and that made a very big change, the quality of people, the quantity of places. So the level of the game improve very, very quickly, very fast. Because, Argentina has many professional players that stop playing tennis when they are 20, 21, 22, 24 Because of a lack of resources, because of how far we are of the rest of the world or the circuit. So many players that dedicated to tennis, in a professional way since they were 10 years old, they reached the ATP circuit and they stopped playing very soon. The best one continue, and the players that resources are very difficult to find, uh, they stop playing. When padel appears, they find in padel a way to continue competing in Argentina. You can find that the best 20 players in the early eighties until 2015, I think, with some exceptions, of course, they were tennis players that reached the ATP circuit and stopped playing, so the level improved very quickly. They don't know how to play the walls, but with the serve and volley and tennis skills and, mental toughness, was enough in that moment. Very, very quickly could give a nice show. So that also helps. People say, Oh, this is a nice sport because there were tennis players that hit great smashes and volleys, and make a good show in one year or two years. I think that is one of the reasons why Argentina embrace the sport very, very fast. Because the very big tennis community and good players with nothing to do, very young.

Alex 5:34

Nito, how would you expand on that? And also, I'm interested with this idea that it started off as a sport for the rich, almost like a country club concept. And then that surely evolved. And I was wondering what was the key to that change from it being seen as a, or being played as an elitist sport to a sport of the masses, a sport of the people?

Nito Brea 5:57

I'm totally agree with Gustavo and I want to add. Because I think that after this tennis community of players, Argentine was in a big crisis and padel always have a great development in all the world around the world after crisis. At the end of the eighties uh, we have a, a crisis and there are a lot of factories with problems that start putting padel courts because was a great business at the beginning. And here in Argentine start increasing and growing as a business, not as a sport, no? So we start putting a lot of courts padel, uh, everywhere here in the middle of the city. All around. Now it's impossible to put a padel court in the same locations.

Gustavo Maquirriain 6:58

It also a reason because the padel, um, it was classified as a short term business. So if you have a piece of land, if you have a factory that it's empty, you can put padel courts, you will have your money back in one or two years. And then we see, when the national economy, uh, it's okay. I can get out of padel courts and I can make the building or I can reopen the factory.

Nito Brea 7:28

And that was the problem in the middle of the of the nineties

Gustavo Maquirriain 7:31

you see everywhere that the padel courts are not there anymore. Ah, padel is dying.

Alex 7:38

So at the beginning in the eighties, it was a sport for the rich.

Argentina's First Padel Boom & Bust

Gustavo Maquirriain 7:42

In the early eighties, the seventies and the early eighties, it was of rich people. In 84, 83, it started to play in the tennis community and, the late eighties, more 89, 90, it became popular

Alex 8:00

So you mentioned that in the late 80s, they built a lot of courts because there was a lot of real estate and factories that were empty or couldn't be filled. But what happened on the other side of that? Was there a point where there were too many padel courts or was there a point where they couldn't fill the padel courts? Was there a point where actually the owners of the property said, well, now you need to leave. We need to kick out all the padel courts. Was there a contraction?

Gustavo Maquirriain 8:27

It's true that the offer of courts exceed the demand. They don't know until when the demand will remain. And they say, well, in one or two years, uh, I have my money back. So they go and go and go with

Nito Brea 8:43

And in crisis, you don't have too many different business to invest. So padel was a great

Gustavo Maquirriain 8:52

Almost everyone who plays padel will love the sport, almost everyone. But it's true that there are many people that is behind fashion. So, appear something new and change something new. They arrive to padel. They like padel, but then they say, well, uh, now I'm going to make a kite surf. So, some of the new players, uh, will disappear. No matter what you do, because the fashion effect, at least what I saw in Argentina, but I think that something similar is happening because I heard that in Sweden, they make many court, many new clubs and many courts. And now they say, Oh, I can't pay the rent. Maybe they think that people that arrive to padel will remain in padel. And that's not true. No matter you like it and very much some people is changing. It's changing and they start golf, now start padel and trying new things. So you can't count with that people forever.

Alex 10:04

so, when the financial crises occurred in Argentina, and there was this empty real estate or cheap real estate where you could build padel courts, these padel courts that were being built, they were the concrete padel courts right? With the concrete floor, concrete walls, no glass

Gustavo Maquirriain 10:21

most of them are still there and people is playing with concrete floor or maybe with a carpet, but with the walls. It's the same sport: nothing different, very, very few differences,

Nito Brea 10:38

Nowadays I have my club here in the middle of Buenos Aires City and I have only one glass court with carpet and then five courts. Four with carpet, one with concrete floor, because there are too many people that come to the club since 20 years, and they prefer concrete. But these five courts are with walls, not with a glass. So there are too many courts here that the old clubs still have walls with a carpet, but with walls.

Alex 11:19

I was going to say we may touch on this in another question, but the fact that Argentinians or a significant Percentage of Argentinians who play padel are raised on those concrete courts. How does that prepare them for padel?

Gustavo Maquirriain 11:34

It's much more faster. In hard court, the ball remains, small, ball does not open. So with the old padel rackets, that's why the sport was so fun and people like it so much because many situations, very new, very different skills that you need. Then there was a stage with old padels and the beginning of carpets. That was very boring padel, boring padel. Defense always beat the one who attack because the padel does not have power yet. And the game became slower because of the carpet. And after that, the pad rackets evolved. They have power again. And you can make similar situations in the carpet that you used to have in the concrete.

Nito Brea 12:27

Yes, I agree because, the great difference is the padel racket. If you give nowadays to the best players, these old padel rackets, it would be impossible to play in nowadays courts of carpets. So, the padel racket is one of the big thing that makes the difference between one padel and the other. And the other thing is that now you have, 2000 of players that are only thinking and training on padel. There are athletes that are in perfect condition. They train every day and a lot of people can live just for playing padel to be a professional. And that is why you have maybe 2, 000 of great players. At the beginning of padel, in the earlier 90s, only 10 players can live from padel, work on padel and train for padel. The others, they had to give lessons, another things, no? And then a little more, maybe 20 or 30. But nowadays you have a 200 or 300 of players, because you have a lot of circuits, not only Premier padel, A1 padel, and maybe in Mexico, you have a professional. tour that maybe there are professional players just playing there, not in premier. So they train and there are more good players, no, than at another time. Yeah. But, really the game for me doesn't change a lot.

Gustavo Maquirriain 14:13

I can say that I do not see in the best level today any shot that do not exist 30 years ago. Any shot, all 20 different kind of smashes all of them already exist. I think that the great change is in knowledge. After 20 years of padel, the first 20 years, you start to have the coaches really prepared because they played 20 years, they retired and they became coaches and they started to train better and to, Use technology, statistics, and they can teach, players when to use each shot. The great change is that now they select better the shots in each case. Also you know what is the best answer for each shot, so you hit and you go to the answer. So the anticipation, it's better, but not the shots. So 20 years after the eighties, appear the coaches really well prepared. And they can teach a kid from 10 years old how to play padel and it appears in 2010 maybe. For the first time, pure padel players with all the skills that padel need, teach by experimented coaches, they start beating tennis players that came to a padel court, because a tennis player, he started playing at 20 or 24. It's a good age, but it's not the best. There were skills in the world that they never learned. They are old to learn. You can see now that it's happening again. Very good tennis player in Sweden, in Italy, in Belgium, in Holland, they play padel with his tennis. They are in the qualifying of the premier, or in the first round. They will never became number one. But when in 10 more years when kids from sweden, Belgium, and Italy that start playing padel at 14 or 12 or 10, they could be number one.

Nito Brea 16:49

Yes, I think that there's a start with the crisis: start with too many people coming from this big community of tennis: we found a fighting against tennis. Fighting all the people saying that padel will make you injury about your knees, that padel was dangerous because of the hard court, and we have fighting because padel, at this early 90s, was taking people from tennis to padel. A lot of tennis trainers start, losing their players because they say, no, padel is not good for your tennis. Then padel makes you injury or have problem with your knees. And, and sorry, just to say at that time, we were alone because in Spain, very few people playing padel, only Marbella, Madrid, Bilbao. And south of Brazil, Punta del Este, Uruguay, Chile, but it wasn't a sport. So people didn't see padel like a sport. So we were fighting against tennis at this time, and tennis was sport, is a sport. Nowadays, padel is a sport. And all tennis players, even number one of the world, want to have a picture with Belasteguin. Because they, they respect our sport. They respect our players. And people this say, wow, I play an international sport, I'm playing in a sport, nor just a game to have fun with for all people or for frustrated tennis players. Because at the beginning of the 90s, Gustavo, all the tennis, the big part I don't know how to

Gustavo Maquirriain 18:47

The core, the core of tennis, uh, attack, start

Nito Brea 18:51

And, and at this time for padel was impossible to defend, or to fight with that enemy. So, but now is in sport. You have padel in more than 100 countries. So is totally different. At that time we were alone

Alex 19:07

I think there are two things that fascinate me. Because they are lessons for global padel. So, it feels like Argentina had two very important things that you're talking about. One was this tension, which evolved into a battle with tennis, right? And So, the tension between tennis and padel is now being played in Italy, in the UK, in the US, in Sweden. It's a battle that You guys have been through. So I would love to know, first of all, what are the lessons that you think padel can learn in its relationship with tennis? Obviously, every country is different. But what did you learn from that tension? So that's the, first question. And the second issue is this. Gustavo, you mentioned this growth because of fashion. We had the, same thing, as you said, in Sweden: this huge growth because there's opportunity, the economic conditions meant that there were lots of courts built, everyone thought that lots of people would love it, that they would stay with it. And then it went down and suddenly the courts can't be filled and businesses are going bankrupt and courts are going empty. There's concerns that you're going to get that kind of saturation maybe in America or parts of America like Miami. You might have that issue with the Middle East. You might have that issue in other parts of Europe. So again, what's the lesson for padel in those countries So let's start with tennis and padel.

Fears for the Sport's History and Institutions

Gustavo Maquirriain 20:31

Yes, one interesting thing to analyze is why in Italy and in France, the tennis federations, keep the padel to regulate themselves. Why? Because they saw them as an enemy. It's better that I have it. I regulate how they grow. Or it's a good business. I want to be part of the business. But that's one of the things to be aware. I think that in Argentina, one of the problems that we had when padel start to decrease was the weakness of the institutions. Um, the padel association was very, very weak. I was a member, founder of the Argentina padel Association. I wrote the first rules of playing and rules of the construction of a court. I was one of the 15 members in Argentina. We never pay the attention to make a strong association, that when the crisis started because, for example, we had one TV program. We have some places in the most important newspapers that those years when the sponsor disappear. The place in the newspaper wasn't there anymore. The program disappeared. The association could solve that. We said if the association had resources, the association can pay for the ad and until the crisis, passed uh, save those places where you can continue to have notices of padel. And Argentina, maybe you have 1 million people playing and you have 10,000 license. I think that the health of the institutions, it's something that you have to be aware, um, and it's a mistake not to repeat, I'm very worried about the professional circuit. For example, I think that the players, the PPA, the professional players association was created too late and it's always running behind the demands. I think the players need to pay attention to the association and the association has to be more strong. Because maybe they have to take the leadership, Uh, instead of always depending on the humor of the a millionaire that wants to buy the circuit, change the name of the circuit. Forgot all the history, the tradition. You need to build tradition. I want to see the statistics during the matches. I don't want to hear the one to the commentators talking and talking and talking. I want to see like in golf statistics. Juan Martin Diaz and Belasteguin and even Gattiker or Lasages won 32 tournaments. I want 28, the Paris Open or the Italian Open or the Argentinian Open. And I see that almost each 10 years, there is a new sponsor, a new owner of the circuit, and they forgot all the tradition, changed the names of the circuit, the name of the championship, forgot the statistics, who won more, and that's part of the sport. I think they have to pay attention to that. I think that pPA has to defend that. Because the, the mecenas the millionaires, they change their humor and they change to another, uh, fasnion, we'll sport that they get in love. That was mistakes that we made 30 or 40 years ago, it'll be a. pity that To see them repeated. No?

Alex 24:30

Nito, what about from your perspective? Let's go back to the tennis padel question. Gustavo is I think right. There is a lot of discussions now about whether it is healthy for tennis to own padel. Why do they do that? What are the benefits for padel? Does padel need to have its independence? How does it maintain a strong independence rather than a weak independence? What are the lessons from Argentinian padel history that you would flag and highlight to those newcomers to the padel world, those new countries in Europe, USA, Australia, who are discovering and falling in love with padel, and are facing some of the same battles and challenges that You guys faced 10, 20, 30 years ago.

Nito Brea 25:11

By now, I think that we have a, a lot of advantages. Gustavo was talking about institutions. Now this Premier padel: the last two years was the first time in all the history of padel that the International padel Federation became a very big and powerful institution. Players association is another part that, has to be more powerful and better. But, I think that now, I don't think that battle can, decrease. Even if the Mesenas move to another sport or another thing, padel have been growing as a sport. I like more history recognizing padel. I don't like to put padel in very traditional tennis places. If you ask me. I prefer to do the Paris Open in another venue, not in Roland Garros. I prefer the Italy Open not in the Foro Italic I prefer another stadium for padel So, I defend the history of padel. I think like Gustavo, I defend the language of padel that bandeja is bandeja, like víbora is víbora, like chiquita is chiquita, dormilona is dormilona. Because it's part of the padel, and this is, for me, it's important. And for me, there are these battles of tennis. There are too many tennis Federation that have padel. I don't know exactly which is the real projects with padel. But Now, it's better for them to have padel to make padel growth or have the control or how it grows, no? But now I think that no one can stop padel. in the world. So I don't have worry. After the 1998, everyone asked me, are you still living on padel? And I said, yes, I'm still giving lessons. I'm a trainer. And all the people say till 2010, more or less 12 years. Living like this in padel. And now it's everywhere and nothing can stop padel. Maybe we have problems with the player, with association, with the circuit, with the now Premier Padel, then World Padel Tour, then another, but I think that we don't have problems with this old battles. I think that we need another new battles, but not like this. I not worry about that.

Alex 27:52

Okay. I wanted to focus a little bit on the professional side. So I want to look at, I want to separate two periods. I want to separate the beginning of professional padel when Argentina dominated for a long, long time. And I want to understand why that was. But I want to separate that from the second wave, which I think is the current wave. So let's start with the beginnings. Why were the Argentinians so good? Why were they winning everything?

Gustavo Maquirriain 28:22

Well, I think that I already told You because very good tennis players that were at ATP okay. level, stopped playing at the age of 18, 20,. 22, for several reasons in Argentina. Maybe they were 200 in the world or 150. They weren't the best tennis players. In that level, it's very difficult to afford the career living in Argentina. From there, you can't play and come back, play and come back. You have to live out of your house. You can't study in a university and play tennis. Many reasons they stopped playing too young. They changed to padel, and they became very good players. In six months, they became the best players. And they beat Spanish players that were not the tennis players. They were the best of the rich people. So they beat them immediately, immediately because they were very good athletes. They don't know how to play after the wall in a corner, but they were very good athletes. They were trying to compete. And so Las Saigas, gattiker, Sanz, Auguste, Alvarez Clementi, cubas, my brother and me. Um, uh, will, uh, they were all tennis players. They were back trying to become tennis pro since they were eight years old, so they were animals prepared to compete. With that, you became the best padel tennis players. In the United States, and now I am in Miami. So I saw how the padel grew here. When the tennis players started playing, they played in the first level immediately. The same happened in Argentina at that moment. And also, there was something different. You were very good in tennis, maybe you have 70 percent of padel already known. You have to add 30%. Silence Now a tennis player of 20 years, professional tennis players and Alcaraz want to change to padel, 30% of what you need and you have to add 70% because padel develop. The other thing the advantage disappear for Argentina for the future. Because the other advantage is that you have the best coaches because Argentina used to have the best players in The 90s and beginning of the 2000. They are now the best coaches, but they live in Europe. They are not in Argentina. Few are in Argentina. The only advantage that in Argentina still remain is tradition, because tradition helps because people here, as in football, everyone knows something about football. So everyone can teach you padel to start. And the crisis. economic crisisw remains here for years and years. So many kids find in padel a way of life Maybe his only way to make money That helps. You have lack of resources but you are hungry so that helps a lot Why 60 from Spain, 30 from Argentina, 10 from other countries Mm-Hmm. did pyramid concept, no? More players, more good players.

Nito Brea 32:20

Yes, I'm agree with Gustavo. I only add that in the beginning of the 90s in Argentine became a professional sport. The best player start earning good money. And in Argentine, think that in 19 92, Argentine was the only country that the professional players earn enough, but good money for the time and for Argentine, enough money just to play and to dedicate full time to padel. And that was the difference, because I think that we start before all the world. We had a tradition, like Gustavo said, and another thing, let me give you an example like in Spain. In Spain, in more or less 2010, if one child say at 18, 19 years old, after leaving the college, say to his parents, I prefer play padel and not go to the university, they say, no, no, no; to university because padel at this time in Spain was not a way to live a way, to have enough money to live in the future. But here in Argentina, was always a good way to have money or to go to Spain and change your life and change the place that you live. And have more opportunities with the sport. So that is why I think at 2015, Argentina was with this advantage. Now we don't have advantage here because the best coaches or too many coaches, very good coaches, moved to Spain. In 2002, after the big crisis here, moved a lot of people to Spain and Spain have a lot of trainers and all the padel is now in the epicenter. I don't know, it's in Spain. But I think that now here in Argentine, we have something different. Like Gustavo said, crisis is hungry. All the days, the things change, the economic, all the things is unstable. I love Argentina. I love Buenos Aires, but it's crazy. It's all difficult just to take a bus, to go to train. So for the distance, Spain is easy. All 500 kilometers. You can go from Madrid to all. Here in Argentine, we have 2000 and 500 kilometers from Buenos Aires to the north. So it's a very difficult country, difficult and unstable, and it's common for us to play against everything.

Gustavo Maquirriain 35:14

Every day, hard times create strong people, no? And we live in hard times since we were born. Uh, and sometimes you find in football that and soccer or padel or in tennis, the only way out, well, it's not the best for the society, but it develop a new padel star, maybe.

Nito Brea 35:36

Just to finish. Even my daughter, I need to travel and to move to Madrid with her at at her 15 years old and there are too many players that made the same. And this is, you are leaving your family, you're leaving your friends. And when you are playing against other guy that they didn't need to leave anything, because he's at 10 minutes from his house, or maybe one hour, you have more powerful, you have more strongest, because you say, I need to beat this guy because I left all this behind just to be here, just to beat him. I cannot lose. So you're stronger. And I think that the tradition, the coaches and all this, make all Argentine players, different with this spirit. I think that this make us different, but because of our disadvantage. It's not a, maybe if the country's perfect, maybe we start losing, not now, but in 15 years. Maybe we are the same like a Sweden guy without problem and they have all resolved. But I think that this is very important to analyze now. To know why Tapia, Stupa, even Delphi, Aranza, Osoro, a lot of girls or boys that, that live the Argentine very, very, very young. And this is tough. It's very difficult for family, for friends. It's not easy. So that is a problem that becomes an advantage.

Argentina's Offer to the World & its Needs from the World

Alex 37:23

I'm conscious that I've had you on for quite a while and I apologize if we're going too long, but obviously the last question will be about the future, but I would love to, because this is a business podcast, I'd love to understand from your perspective, what can Argentina continue to offer the world? Where is Argentina the best? What is Argentina's offering to the world today of padel? And then the reflection is: what benefits could Argentina get from other parts of the world? So what does it offer the outside world and what does it need from the outside world? So, Nito, why don't you start with those two questions.

Nito Brea 38:03

Well, I think that Argentine can offer, if you have a club, I will recommend you always to have, if you can have a a manager, will be the best. Because I think that the thing that Argentine can offer is the knowledge, the experience, the knowledge of coaches. Because if you analyze apps to have in clubs, we don't have the top of this. In the court construction, we are not the number one. In the technology of, of, uh, racquets, we are not in the top. We have too many good factories here, but not the best. So I think that we are still different with the knowledge. I went to Belgium, to Holland for the federation, in Italy, and I always said that you have money, you have a very powerful federation, and you have the venues, you have a lot of good places to train. But you need to buy, is easy because the knowledge you can buy it. You can buy the knowledge. Hire, a coach to say, please work here for the federation. At the beginning in Spain, Martina Chigaray was one of the guys that started going and working for the Spain federation. And now, with all this support of the great federation and powerful federation to have knowledge, I think that we can export knowledge for forming trainers or for forming players. And from the world, we need all, all the things that you can come here. Because we don't have the great clubs, but we have this that is different. We have history. We have experience. And we had been fighting battles, not only in Argentine with the padel, with the problem of padel, so this is a great experience. In 2007, I moved to Mallorca in Spain to manage a club. And in, at the beginning of 2009, in the big crisis, with all the people say, it's a crisis, it's a crisis, it's a crisis, I used to say for me, this is Disney, I'm in Orlando for me. It's not a crisis for me. So this is for me, very important and I think that the countries can use it and buy it. The organization there are great. I went to belgium: the Belgian Federation was incredible, make a campus, great organization, the venue, perfect. But if you don't have the concepts or the way to go from here to here. Even with a Ferrari, if you take another way, you cannot find the place. Maybe I have my old car, but know exactly the way, exactly the route to go.

Alex 41:24

What about your point of view Gustavo?, so many of the ups and downs, opportunities and challenges that padel is experiencing in different countries at different times. The journey that Sweden is going through or the journey that Miami is going through or the journey of the Middle East is going through, they're not unique. They are just versions or similar versions to what Argentina experienced 10, 20, 30 years ago in business, in administration, in governance, in politics, in funding. And so I think, that is what I find really interesting because I think the knowledge of how to play the game and win the game is obvious. You look at the coaches who are sitting by the side of the court and they're all Argentinian names. So that is obvious and very visible and very easy to see. But I think the experience of those battles that happened maybe away from the court are also really valuable for padel bodies and associations in other countries. Gustavo, what's your thoughts on what Argentina can offer the world and what the world can offer argentina?

Gustavo Maquirriain 42:38

Well, I concur with Nito, that knowledge is I think the most important asset that Argentina could offer. I think that padel will survive mismanagement. It will continue, but it's not unbreakable because mistakes make the growth slower. And we don't want that. I don't want to see a tournament without people in the stages. I don't want to see a club that shuts and go to bankruptcy. I don't want to see that that, because that hurts padel. So I think that institutions in each countries need to have ways to um,help, as a consultant, the new people that is coming to padel. They have to help them with information, with market analysis, with good advice, of growing padels racquets that are selled, courts that are building or in process. So people do not make mistakes. Each mistake. It's what people are investor that doesn't come again to padel, when you sell a tournament to someone and he is in the wrong month of the year. And you see because of that, there is no one in the stadium. It's a mistake that hurts everyone. So, I think knowledge is very important, knowledge not only from Argentina, but knowledge is needed, and I think it has to be easy to find in the federations of each country, so helps to grow the padel in a better way. And Argentina has made bad things more than anyone. In Argentina, we make a lot of mistakes. We have passed the same way that people is starting now, no? Uh, that knowledge, is in the people. The knowledge is in Matti Diaz, in Nito Brea, in, uh, Cilingo, in, uh, Alvarez Clementi. Not in Argentina, uh, in the Argentinian guys is the, the knowledge. So Argentina can offer that to countries that are growing, or cities that are starting with padel or investors. But the knowledge is in those guys. people that is 30 or 40 years in the sport. If you come here and want to phone Argentina Federation of padel, no one answer. Or maybe the guy who is now a president is trying to do the best, is working well, but he's almost alone. He's rebuilding the team in Argentina. He needs this good advice also for his job in Argentina, no? He's looking for people like Chino Masucci, people who is in padel since 30 or 40 years. They, they learn a lot. I was trying to find an answer of what will Argentina need from the rest of the world. And it's difficult, but I think argentina needs rules. So, I think if the institution, the federation, the FIP and the PPA and other institutions grow properly, they will give rules to all the world and argentina always need good rules. Because if not, we always Are in our own chaos. So rules is what we need always.

Alex 46:17

My last question question to both of you is the future. Obviously no one knows the future, but what do you think is the future of padel in Argentina for the next 10, 15 years? Professionally, at the top level, but also just the sport in the grassroots among the people in the community. Is it going to grow? Is it going to struggle? Is it going to evolve? Does Argentina maintain its position at the top of the professional rankings? What do you see for the future in padel?

Nito Brea 46:48

I think now is growing. There are too many clubs that are opening everywhere in the country. padel is growing. Here we now we have the opportunity to watch the tournament. All the kids can watch the tournament. All the kids can want to be Tapia, want to be Delphi, want to be Stupa. So we have many good players that can inspire a lot of kids here. There are many people playing here. I don't believe that the country can change the economic, uh, macroeconomic, uh, possibilities for the situation. But, the situation that we have now, the reality here in padel, padel now, is good. It has a good health, and I think that will be growing. I think that it is a very strange country. I, I still believe in the magic of Argentine and now is very much better than the last 10 years. So if we analyze from the 2020, 2030, these years will be very very much better than from 2010 to 2020. So my expectation is better because of that.

Alex 48:18

Do you think that the Argentinian heroes of padel today, like Delphi, like Tapia are bigger heroes than the previous Argentinian heroes, the players who came before?

Nito Brea 48:28

Yes, because of the social media. Because of the media today. I think after the pandemic all around the world and even in Argentine, you can watch the tournaments, watch the matches. Maybe people can meet Auguste or meet Alvaro Clemente and say, who is that guy? But Gustavo said something important. Start the Premier padel is like World padel Tour never exists. And when World padel Tour starts, it's like the padel Tour before never exists. And this, makes that people can forget the players too. You forget the statistics of War padel tool. It's like, padel starts now. And I used to meet people that said, no, not this padel. No, but this play, this skill, this shot, it's from 35 years. It's not now, it's not a new padel, it's new for you. Because you started watching padel the last two years. That was invented maybe 30 years before. But I respect it's new for you. But I think that it depends on this. I think these guys: Tapia, Delphi Chin GoTo, Martin Dno Stupa, uh, they moved to Spain in a very difficult moment here in Argentine. So I think that they are the new heroes because they are the new, young players that are living they dreams. They did their dream. They're living this. So people can touch these dreams. They can inspire a lot of kids. I always say that the association, has to use all this to inspire more young players. That is the only thing, the best motivation are, look these guys. Look these guys and they, they did it. They are doing day by day. But the, I heroes, I think Belastegiun, Juan Martin Diaz moved, uh, Paolo Robaletti moved to Spain, more or less in 1995. padel was not a lot of money. They suffered a lot at their first years totally different than by now. These last four years are different from the others. In 2015, padel was totally different. Today, the numbers are per 10. So now, it's not easy, but easier than 8 or 10 years before, where these young players moved to Madrid. Was totally different, uh?

Alex 51:25

Gustavo do you have any predictions for

Gustavo Maquirriain 51:33

Argentinain padel?, because matter you will have very good players, all the world will add his players. And there will be players from all countries in the best 100 players. You will see Spain will decrease also, but argentina more because, um, Spain now is the center of the community of padel. We always have very good players. But in quantity, that will be more, um, how do you say, um, spare

Alex 52:24

distributed. And what about grass roots and the everyday players in Argentina? Will more and more people play in argentina?

Outro

Gustavo Maquirriain 52:32

I have an optimistic view of that. I also realize that, uh,padel start with rich, people, then it get middle class, then more popular. Rich people doesn't want to play anymore because, it became popular. Now it does not happen. Rich people,is playing in his houses because they see messi playing, they think everyone plays. So they came again to padel, so everyone is playing padel, men and women, everyone. So I think that it's better than 30 years ago, 40 years ago. It's one of the best sports that the reasons are real reasons that people love padel. It's very difficult to play tennis. Tennis used to be that sport that people learn for the whole life. And now, we realize that you can't continue to play tennis when you are old, when you play once in a while, so, padel took that place, squash is very difficult, in the United States you can see that pickleball, arrived before padel. You really need a sport easier than tennis. Well, who is ready? Pickleball come here. Now padel is coming and have to fight against pickleball, but reason is that tennis is too difficult to play. And if you do not play, if you aren't in good shape, if you do not play regularly twice a week, padel it's going to, occupy that position in all the world, and pickleball in the United States. Padel will need some more years, but padel is much better than pickleball, much better sport than pickleball. But it's, need more infrastructure, so pickleball, you put the net, you paint the lines and you play. Padel need, an effort, no? To find places, to got the permits, to build the infrastructure. So, uh, it will be slow, slower in the United States. But all around the world, no one will stop padel.

Alex 54:49

Okay. was thought provoking. Please comment on LinkedIn, on Twitter, if you have any recommendations around the format, topics, speakers. Thank you, Gustavo and Nito for joining. I really, truly appreciate you jumping on for this whole session and sharing your expertise and your experiences and your lessons. It seems like the world has a lot to learn from everything that argentina has been through, everything as you say that the people who have been driving the argentinian padel scene Have experienced and learned. So thank you so much. We will keep doing our best to cover All The Angles of the business around padel, episode after episode. So until the next one, thank you very much