All The Angles S1 E13: Focus on Miami and the US

Anyone monitoring padel worldwide is monitoring the US. And anyone doing that, knows that Miami is where the momentum started.

Miami is now home to about 80 courts, making up one third of all US courts. And more clubs are springing up all the time. But how did the sport find a foothold there? How has it grown since then? And what is its, as well as the country's, future relationship with padel?

This week's episode brings Julian Wortelboer, who is the Founder of Padel Smash Academy, President of the Padel Coaches Association, and now EVP and Chief Padel Officer of key Miami club, Ultra Padel Miami; together with Marcus Jansson-Ryan, who as CEO of EEP Capital, is a key funder of numerous club brands growing and dominating the US scene.

We focus on Miami to unravel the catalysts there, as well as the full potential. But we also zoom out across the country in a bid to understand what is coming for the sport, how it can optimise that trajectory and how leading stakeholders can avoid pitfalls.

Transcript

Introduction

Alex Inglot 0:05

Ladies and gentlemen, damas y caballeros, thank you for joining us for another episode of All The Angles, the business of padel podcast worldwide, powered by the Hexagon Cup. This week, our mission is to give you, our audience, a unique insight into Miami, recognized widely as the Mecca of padel in the United States, and what that market means for the rest of the United States. I'm joined in this episode by two individuals who understand miami, as well as the U S in great detail. First of all, I'm fortunate enough to welcome Julian Wortelboer, who is been involved in us tennis since the nineties but his jobs and roles in padel now are plentiful. He is the co founder of padel smash Academy, which is the first us all things padel platform. He is the co founder and president of the padel coaches association. And he is currently the EVP and chief padel officer of Ultra padel Club, Miami. I've also alongside him got Marcus Jansen Ryan, who has spent over a decade in the investment banking sector. And he's also an investor in the padel businesses. primarily as a CEO of EEP Capital, which provides venture capital into the padel industry primarily in the United States. Some of his investments include Ace padel, Bay padel, Park padel, padel House out of New York, and the LA Beat franchise in the US Pro padel League. Before we get started, if you enjoy this episode or benefited from previous ones, please share, like, subscribe. It helps. So, without further ado, let's get started, gentlemen. Let's start with the beginning of this journey, in the U. S. and in Miami. I was wondering if either of you could tell me a little bit about what you feel are the conditions that have made Miami the perfect starting point and mecca for padel in the United States. Maybe Julian, you can start off.

Julian 2:06

Yeah, Miami had the first couple of padel clubs in the United States with padel, and it became, thanks to certain situations in the world stage with COVID and a lot of people moving to Miami. It created the perfect, uh, environment for padel to growth here in the United States. You know, COVID also helped a lot and that's what really made the place or the city become a different level. And one of the main options is Miami. It's very Latin. The people is very familiar South America or Central America where padel is very, very popular. So it took off with that type of demographics and then expanded into. The rest of, the Americans enjoying the sport. I will say those two clubs, Winwood, and Rial, were the first ones. And I think the next one was Reserve when Wayne Boich, you know, brought up the idea to create this club, he was one of the, uh, really precursors of pushing padel here in Miami, especially, and then in the United States. And I think it was the combination of big players and the enthusiasm of the people here, and that's why he catched on. And then now we have maybe, what, 10, 12 clubs and more coming up in the Miami area. And now it's spreading all over the United States.

Alex Inglot 3:29

Marcus, what about from your perspective? Do you have any other elements that you think are really critical to helping Miami become that hotbed for the sport.

Ultra Padel Club Miami

Marcus (2) 3:37

Yeah, well I agree with everything that Julian said. And I think also that South Florida has always had a very, very strong foothold of tennis, not only in the U. S., but globally. You have a lot of great colleges. You have a professional circuit in Miami Open, IMG Academy. It's always been tennis players from across the world coming in and practicing and so forth. And everything from grassroot up. You have a lot of tennis clubs and obviously the conversion from tennis padel as we know in the beginning is it's very easy. So I think that that factors in and then I think A lot of people that move not only to Florida but to warmer climates move there to focus on a more of a healthy living, like to play outdoors. I think also, of course, that the outdoors and that you can actually build clubs and have them run on an outdoor area is, of course, helpful as well. As we know, the bottleneck for a lot of cities is the access to the right real estate with a ceiling height and common spacing, etc. So, That, that helps of course, as well. And then I think it's just like in any other industry, when you get something going, whether it's tech or in finance you have a couple of, like Julian mentioned, you have some people that are starting and there are really driving the industry and then they're setting the tone that Miami had, and then an ecosystem is built. And you take it from there and, it becomes like a snowball effect. So, now I think Miami's doing a great job. Julian and you guys at Ultra, Wayne, and we played a PPL in Miami, which was a great success at Ultra, actually, in May. And there's the Racket X conference that brings in thousands of people from across the world, not only for Padel, but other racket sports. There is a proper ecosystem in Miami now, I think it will take some time for any other U S cities to properly catch up on.

Alex Inglot 5:23

Let's talk a little bit about ultra, Julian. I can't keep up with how many courts you guys have. Last time I checked, you had 15 outdoor and 3 indoor, but I'm convinced that that's gone up since I checked those numbers.

Julian 5:37

Yes, now we're at 27 total courts. We have 11 indoors and 16 outdoors. Because we have two kids courts, which are a great asset for the club as well as a couple of singles courts. Yeah, it keeps growing. And then, by next week we adding another nine in a different location. So we're up in nine courts up in North Miami and Aventura. And by mid November, we're opening another four courts in the Miami design district. So, we're very excited with the projection where padel is going, and then we're moving to the West Coast.

Alex Inglot 6:12

And of course, there's the floating courts, which we shouldn't forget.

A Segmented Offering in Miami?

Julian 6:15

Of course. Yes. And the floating courts.

Alex Inglot 6:18

Now you guys both reference the fact there are now a number of different clubs either already open in Miami or about to open or expand. Is there now a feeling that Miami is beginning to segment its offering to the padel communities and that there are different USPs for these centers or are we still at a point where the clubs don't really need to do that?

Julian 6:43

I think now what I think is beautiful, what's happening to Miami. Now you have different options on the padel menu. You have the high end luxury clubs, like the reserve. You have the ones just a little step below more like the ultras where you have a massive club and different options trying to offer a much higher quality of service. And then you have the Wynwood or the reals and everyone else, which different pricing option and playing options. Now you have I 95, which I believe the other six indoor clubs, just only indoors. You have all their outdoor clubs opening up. You have PadelX as well, which it's a mixture between ultra and reserve. And then you have, you know, Miami is such a massive city, the outskirts, there are now more in each neighborhood, there are more clubs opening. So now it's many different options and many different pricing options also for the players. And I think that's a good way for us to make padel grow here in the Miami area or South Florida area and also around the country.

Alex Inglot 7:49

And from your point of view, Marcus, do you feel like Miami is really starting to explore the opportunities that come as Julian said, with different offers at different price points to different communities and different consumers.

Marcus (2) 8:01

Yeah, a hundred percent. You probably have a lot of very enthusiastic Padel players that turns into Padel operators and entrepreneurs that feel that they're missing something at one club or that something could be added. Not only offering padel, but also whatever they feel that could be a right fit for that consumer and for that market. So like Julian said, you start seeing other venturing out and focusing very heavy on events and corporate partnership, et cetera, and Doing that a little bit more and then you'll have some that will also offering out other racquet sports. And I think you will also see, on the other hand, probably a lot of other sports facilities and tennis clubs and country clubs, golf clubs, it starts to integrate Padel on the other side as a part of their offering, to increase retention rates and offering more to their members.

Pure Padel Clubs v Multi Sport Clubs

Alex Inglot 8:50

Do you think there is, now this divergence between single sport venues and multi sport venues. It's not new, but I think what you're seeing is, you've got some operators who feel that they want to offer a pure padel experience, and others who feel like they want to mix it with pickleball, they want to mix it with squash, they want to mix it with other activities in the hope of perhaps cross pollination. Do either of you guys have a strong sense of the pros and cons of those different models? Which do you think is going to take, a better market share in the U. S. going forward?

Marcus (2) 9:26

can just respond a little bit quicker because we see quite a lot of cases from new groups and entrepreneurs, comes in and they want to do both a combination of the two. They tend to be coming from the padel side of things. Very often there is that the space may be a little bit Not too big, but they may not want to put in 10 padel courts in a city that never have had padel in the past. So they're starting with five padel and five pickle. But the idea is usually to turn them into full Padel facilities later on, but obviously pickleball have come a little further in this country at this stage. Um, but we're seeing quite a bit of that.

Pickleball: Friend or Foe of Padel?

Julian 10:03

I mean, I agree with with Marcos completely. I mean, I think the hybrid option is an ideal way to introducing paddling to the masses. A lot of country clubs, they're adding. Golf and tennis now. Tennis clubs are adding padel and pickleball and they becoming racket sports. And they're finding out that that's a great way to attract a different type of membership and create more revenue for the club, which I think is fantastic. Here in the United States, you have two options, the commercial clubs and the member owned club. And the member owned club are the typical country club where you always had for over a hundred years, golf and tennis. Now those tennis clubs are becoming more racquet clubs because they're adding pickable and padel to it. And they're finding out that that's a great way to create more revenue and a different type of membership to those country clubs. The commercial clubs are trying to do the same thing adding Pickable as a hybrid option and then turning those courts, those Pickable courts into padel. The issue now that the commercial clubs, because they want to make profit, is that right now Pickable is pretty much free in the United States. You know, you pay a few dollars here and there. So how do you monetize your return on investment? It's very low. Maybe if you're indoors, it could be a little bit more exciting, but just to give an example, and now next door, we have a pickleball club indoors and they charge you,$60 an hour, where we charge for an indoor padel club,$200 an hour. So that's a huge difference. And as an investor, it's a much more exciting, uh, padel as a return on investment than pickable nowadays. So that's the trend. But I think eventually it's gonna catch on and, we're gonna have more and more padel courts all over the country.

Alex Inglot 11:40

This is a question we were probably going to reach at some point, but we might as well do it now, considering we are talking about pickleball. Is pickleball a friend or a foe to padel in your views?

Julian 11:53

For me, it's a friend. Pickleball players get pissed when I tell them this, but I see pickleball just as a game, where padel is a sport. You need much more skills for you to learn how to play padel compared to pick a ball. But it's a great introduction game into the sport of padel. So they come in hand in hand. You know what I mean? And I think also Let's talk about the three: the tennis, pickable and padel. I think they can live in the same ecosystem Beautifully, you know what I mean? I think having A tennis, pickable and padel club like Tactica has. I think it's fantastic. I think because you can offer to the members so much more options.

Marcus (2) 12:33

I think from my side, I've been in this space now for some time and a lot of LPs and investors that we meet, they're also asking: will Padel become big in the U S? U S sports is different. It's not Europe. I think that pickleball proves that you have four people, who wants to go out and play a racket sport, as Julian mentioned two versus two, social game. And that creates a lot of interest and grows very, very fast. Padel has not only converted a lot of tennis players and other sports people into the sport, we will also convert a lot of pickleball players. But I think as Julie mentioned, I think tennis, padel, and pickle can live beautifully in one ecosystem together, and Looking at how Gen Z, how they act and how big health and well being and exercise that generation definitely enjoy more of going and exercising and do that as a group than go out late nights and, we see that And so I think that's just going to continue. And I think Padel is going to catch on to that trend very, very nicely.

Alex Inglot 13:42

And from both of your points of view, what is the future of Padel in Miami? There seems to be just a never ending appetite for more courts. And more playing. How does, Miami maintain its pole position in the us? Is it concerned, should it be concerned about New York, California, Texas? What do you see in five to Miami?

Julian 14:01

Look, I call these the padel gold rush here, the United States. Everybody see us as a good business model and investors think, okay, it's sports and good return on investment. The numbers make sense. But at the end of the day, the business sense is a little bit more complex. A lot of owners, they ask me, what is needed to open a club? I mean, the building of the club is the easy part. The running of the club is the most difficult part. Where you need good programming, good staff, excellent coaches, a good padel director, which knows the business inside the court and outside the court. And that's the secret of success. And here what I see is when you rush into things without really a proper way of doing things. A lot of these new padel clubs, they're popping up. I'll say in two, three years, if they don't do well financially, they're going to just either crash or readjust, you know what I mean? But here in Miami, that will be the second wave of investors where they're going to jump into good offers and good options to buy a club at a discounted price. So I think the ones that they will succeed in the long term are the ones that they have the best programming and the best experience and customer service, and most importantly, the best coach.

Alex Inglot 15:20

Marcus, what about your view? What's five to ten years in Miami look like?

Marcus (2) 15:23

I think very, very strong. I think if I would predict it may not have a strong grip of the U. S. Because today, it's Miami. And then it's nothing, nothing, nothing. And then comes, arguably now maybe New York, a few places in California, etc. I think it's going to spread out a little bit more. But again, back to the ecosystem. Just a few years ago, we hosted a World Padel Tour in Miami. We know the premier, pretty much set to host something in 2025. Um, you have conferences, et cetera. So there is an ecosystem that is already existing and growing. But I do think that we will see California is going to be strong. There will be a lot of clubs and courts in Texas. We had some tournaments up here in New York already. PPL announced, that we're going to play in New York in November. It's going to be a big event. We had A1 last year, et cetera. So it's spreading in other places too. But I do think Miami will be a very, very important market. And it will be a gateway for a lot of, brands. Investors and new participants going into the market. Happens to be a very nice place to live too. So.

Alex Inglot 16:32

And do either of you worry about saturation in the Miami market?

Julian 16:38

No, I I think it will readjust. I mean, saturation, obviously you reach that, but the market is gonna shuffle and accommodate itself. And going back to what I was saying before, it's the best service, the best coaching, and the best, environment will create that community. But saturation, I always compare How many tennis courts do you have here in the Miami area? You have hundreds. And this will be exactly the same thing. You know what I mean? Now, when the private clubs, the private condos, start adding padel to their ecosystems, I think it's going to be very beneficial. Saturation. I think we're far, far, far from that. Going back to what Marco was saying, the big hubs in the near future is going to be in Texas, the big cities in Texas, the Dallas, the Houston, the Austins, then the West Coast is going to be huge. I mean, just California is a complete country on itself. There is so much growth from San Diego all the way out to San Francisco, Which with park padel already opening two more clubs. Uh, Bay padel is opening, uh, Taktika is opening. So the future is so bright for padel in the United States that I'm, I'm so excited.

Alex Inglot 17:44

And we started talking now about the rest of the U S and as we zoom out and look at the macro view of America, what do you think are the key lessons? I think, Julian, you talked a little bit about it with the community and coaches, but if you had to summarize the key lessons that have been learned in Miami for the rest of the market and for the rest of the U. S., what are the key things that you think clubs and the sport need to bear in mind as they start making inroads in these other states?

Julian 18:11

From my point of view, they have a clear pathway. What is our mission and ambition as a club? Where do we want to take this? How much are we willing to offer to our members to come here and stay here? And what I mean by that, simple things. You can imagine how many people come here to the club to Ultra just because we have showers. Some of the clubs don't have showers and people like to come and play and take a shower and go to work or go back home, whatever. Those little things make a big impact on the revenue of the club. We provide towels to each player. We bring you a water bottle to your court. The extra steps make a huge deal on the bottom line of each club. And those club owners, they have to have a clear pathway. How much are you willing to invest on the experience for you to create that revenue on the longterm?

Alex Inglot 19:06

Marcus, what about you? What are the key takeaways? Key lessons?

Marcus (2) 19:11

I think the key takeaway and key lessons from Miami, but also from other clubs and other markets is that and it goes back to your question a little bit about saturation too. You need to have a very clear business plan and how you're going to execute on that. In the beginning, a lot of these clubs will work, but as competition grows stronger as more clubs opening like in any industry. It's not only in padel. You need to offer your members something special. You need to invest in coaching. You need to invest in facilities. Whether you decide to go High-end luxury, or if you want to be more of an affordable brand. It needs to be invested in time, in thought, in effort and, in a clear path. How you wanna run your club?

Julian 19:57

Yeah and going back to Marcus's point, they need to understand that this is a seven day a week 14, 16 hours a day, business operation. 365 days out of the year. So that's a lot of time that you have to put on, on building that brand. This is not a nine to five job, five days a week. You know what I mean? This is a seven days a week and you have to have that clear vision that, okay, if these are operational hours and days and times, I mean, what do I need to take my business vision to that level that we're talking about?

Marcus (2) 20:31

Exactly. No, I totally agree. It's very much almost as a lifestyle versus, versus a job, you know. It's tournaments in the weekends, it's, uh, building a community, you know. That, that doesn't necessarily start at eight and ends at five. As Julian said, it's seven days a week, 365 days a year.

Deciding on a New Market or Location

Alex Inglot 20:46

And we talked about other markets and we looked at the key ones that are obviously growing, but say you're someone who wants to set up a club somewhere in the U S. It could be anywhere. It could be Tulsa. It could be North Carolina. How do you decide where to put up a club? What are the insights that you guys think about when you are either investing in a club, or what you do when you guys are looking at new sites for the brand? What are the key ingredients that make a location exciting?

Marcus (2) 21:17

Yeah. We get a lot presented to us and it's like you mentioned, it's sometimes it's locations that we don't have a clear understanding of ourselves. Although it can quickly be a phone call but. Of course we look a lot on the demographics. That's a starting point. That's something that is important for us in this early stage. You're looking at what was the racket history in the area. You're looking at other fitness and wellness offers to try to look at also the catchment area of the club: where it's opening. A lot of clubs opening in different spaces that are not always central located, but easy to get to. We're looking at those type of things.

Julian 21:53

Yeah. I agree. I mean, the demographics are crucial. When I talk to business owners I always tell him: how many people you can bring into the club? Or what is your mass within 20 minutes driving from your club, right? So, what is the area? Because nobody wants to drive more than 15 20 minutes to do any sports activities. So, what is your demographics there? And you have to really study with it. Anyone from 25 to 45? Is it families? Just to give an example, in the Aventura club that we're opening in a couple of weeks, We did our study of the demographics. That's much more family oriented, young families living within five minutes of the club. I think that's a great target because you have the young parents, they're still very active. They like to do sports. So those are the ones willing to come to the club and learn a new sport and also bring their kids to it. So I think it's not just, you know, I find a spot and I open the club because the numbers make sense. You have to get the whole Business concept that you have to understand as a business owner. It's about the numbers, the demographics. What can you offer? And at the end of the day, it's what is your long term vision for the club, for the growth of the club.

Alex Inglot 23:07

We've talked a lot about the clubs that are currently opening and the kind of people that they're targeting. What about the rest of the participation and amateur pyramid? I'm talking about community courts. So obviously in America you have basketball community courts, you have tennis community courts, and those are significant, even baseball and American football pitches, which are accessible to anyone. Those are key drivers of enabling youngsters to pick up the sport, throw the ball around, play three on three or whatever it is, on a very informal basis and get comfortable with that sport. padel is a bit more challenging because the infrastructure cost of setting up a court is not insignificant, especially compared to perhaps the rival that we mentioned before, Pickleball. But how do you think padel in America can address the need to target the youngsters and the community access piece of the puzzle?

Julian 24:02

So basically, right now we're in the beginning of the big padel tsunami wave. That's what I call it. Where now you have the 25 to 45 age group coming into the sport. Then the next wave it's start development, junior programs and junior development. I mean, we're not there yet. It's just a good example. We did a USPA tournament here at Ultra and we didn't have any kids signing up. So now we're reaching out to different schools trying to create padel pe, programs so we can bring those kids to the school. We have to start doing the hard work, start introducing people into the sport. That's the crucial aspect, and we have to be able to invest on the long-term growth of the sport. That has to be a must for every club. You know what I mean? Bring the parents, bring young parents with their kids and introduce them into the sport of padel. This is not a short term return on investment. We're running a marathon. We're not running a sprint. Okay. So it's a very slow growth into the future of padel here in the United States.

Alex Inglot 25:10

Marcus, when you look at some of the opportunities that cross your desk, how important are community initiatives, school outreach, Those pieces of the pie? Or is that something that you're not overly focused on at this point, similar to what Junior says, it's just not the right phase yet.

US College Sport

Marcus (2) 25:28

Community outreach is very, very important. I would say that's really, on top of it. Um, what I've seen in most markets. I'm looking at Sweden, the Nordics and now UK and that have come a little further than the U. S. But also, of course, U. S. And Miami it takes a little time for the kids and for the grassroots to come by. Usually you need a parent that starts playing and gets very enthusiastic about it. And then the family starts. The kids starts. I have a dear friend out in LA now who's, plays quite a bit and, uh, now he's 12-year-old son. The only thing he wants to do is to play padel. So what I've seen so far, it starts more from that angle. But yeah, of course, as the sport grows, hopefully get into more and more colleges. And I can absolutely seeing it being down the road, a college sport as well. And when, and if that happens, that's going to be a major game changer, of course.

Alex Inglot 26:19

I think my next question is going to be about college sports, because I think for what it means in terms of American parents being willing to push their kids into a sport, college admissions and college scholarships is pivotal, and also even for international kids who want to come and go to a top university in America. If they understand and see that padel is actually a gateway through which they can do that, that also plays a significant piece. So actually, I'm quite surprised it doesn't get mentioned more often about how the integration of padel into U. S. college sports could be an absolute game changer, Joe, not just in the U. S., but also internationally. And I speak as someone who's brother went to the University of Virginia on a tennis scholarship, and I know how pivotal it was for the options that he's pursued since then, both on the court as a professional tennis player, also since then in his life outside of tennis. So Julian, are you aware of efforts that are currently underway to try and really push that college agenda?

Impact of the Olympics

Julian 27:21

No, we're not there yet, in my opinion. We're far from that. I think first we have to create the massive market here in the United States before it becomes on the radar And I'll give you a similar example where we are, now in the United States. You have public tennis courts, literally everywhere. You know what I mean? You have over 300, 000 tennis courts in the United States. And maybe half of those are public courts. I give an example. We went to see the commissioner to see what are the permits that we need to put padelle court in one neighborhood. The guy had to look on Google, what the heck was that? He didn't know before even he could approve permits on all that. So we're not there on the radar of the non padel players. Uh, so that, that will take a little time, maybe four or five years to really get start talking about universities and all that. I think if we can make it an Olympic sport will be a huge, huge leap forward into the future of the United States.

Alex Inglot 28:24

Marcus, any thoughts on the universities or even the Olympics that Julien just mentioned?

The Pro Scene

Marcus (2) 28:31

Yeah, I think Olympics is the, um, um, Can I say the easy one? But I think that's obviously will be great if it happens in the upcoming ones. But, in terms of getting it into and making it a college sport. Yeah, we're probably over 10 years away from that. That's going to take time. You need to have, obviously, um, federation that, works on a much larger scale in the US. You need to have more participation. It's going to take some time, but we've seen a few universities that actually have set up padel courts, which is very encouraging for su, you know who are in the business and invest in the business and run clubs. That's a positive

Alex Inglot 29:08

As we head towards the end of this episode, let's look at the professional scene As you mentioned, Marcus, there was a WPT event, I think, last year or two years ago in Miami. Since then, Premier padel haven't put an event in the U. S., although I think there's been rumblings that in 2025 there will be at least one PPP event in the U. S. In the meantime, of course, there's the PPL, which it's in its second year now, with its final in New York towards the back end of this year. How important and how impactful is the professional scene for growing the sport, in America or, I guess another way of asking that question is, is America ready to understand and embrace a top flight professional padel?

Marcus (2) 29:59

I think that these events eventually grow very, very important. It's hard to compare with tennis because it has such a long and rich history. And in every kind of city that has host large tennis tournaments. And I'm thinking about the Grand Slams in general. Uh, Paris, London, Melbourne, New York. They are tennis meccas in the world. And Miami Open in Miami, et cetera. I think it creates awareness. And I think that some tournaments, PPL, uh, Wayne did a good job with Reserve Cup and also the World Padel Tour in Miami. They do create awareness. They do create a buzz and it gets on people's radar. And for the people that Watch they're extremely impressed about the level. So, um, although it's an early, early stage, I do think it's important to set the tone and introduce professional as well. But then, of course, it can be various levels of it., I think it's also regional tournaments. Making the USPA tournaments more impactful, make the production better, make that more watchable, increase the viewership there. I mean, it's, it's so easy to watch and follow sports today in this DNA from your phone or iPad or anywhere. So, I, I feel that these Tournaments and also the motor vehicle I talked about, they definitely spreads the sports and it's great awareness, which I think it's very important.

Julian 31:28

Yeah, I agree with Marcus. We don't have to forget when padels start. If we compare tennis, then he started in the late 1800s and he took What 80, 80 years to become a professional sport. padel was created in the mid sixties and it really took 30, 30 plus years to become a professional sport. And then for that to move into the big stage, I mean, padel is growing, it's growing so fast and so rapidly worldwide with the premier padel. Even the prize money is triple in the last five years at a professional level. So if we start trickling in some money tournaments and professional tournaments into the United States to get everyone on the radar, I think it's going to be a huge, huge impact. But we as a club operators and as a club investors, we have to do the fine job, meaning the coaching, the clubs, introducing people into the sport. That will be the key in the next couple of years for us to really take paddling to the next level. And I'll give you an example. Here we have the PPL and we have the number one player in the world, Agustin Tapia and all that. Some of my members that were coming, telling me, asking me, Oh my God, that guy plays so good. Who is he? They don't even know who these padel superstars in the United States. So we're not there yet, but we have to start doing the work for sure.

Alex Inglot 32:54

From your respective positions, but also from your respective organizations, what do you think is like the call to action for you guys with regards to how can other stakeholders in the space support the growth of the U. S. Market that you guys are at the forefront of? Whether it's investors, sponsors, real estate owners? What are you hoping for support with?

Julian 33:20

I think the secret here, it's work everyone nationally as a team. Meaning, EEP and Marcos, they bring the investment aspect to it. We as club owners or as a club, it's bringing those people in. Just to give an example here in Miami, we're doing a interclub league, which I think it's fantastic. But some of the club operators, they feel like that's a threat. You're trying to take my players away from me. It's completely the opposite. We got to bring everybody together because we're not competing with each other. We're working with each other to make the sport grow at a faster pace. And, and as a club owners and as a club investment groups, we have to understand that everybody's in the same ecosystem and we need to work together to make this growth in the United States.

Alex Inglot 34:11

Marcus, anything from your point of view that you feel needs to change or level up?,

Marcus (2) 34:18

I think that a strong federation is always helpful. Um, can play a big, big role. And I think it also seen in other markets and in both Padel and tennis, not here in the US, but in, in other markets, how also a weak and disorganized federation, can be a bottleneck and prevent what we talked about before, uh, junior participation, et cetera, to go up. So I think USPA is on a good track. There's good things happen there. But of course there's always room for improvement on many, many fronts. And I think that, that is for guys like us who try to be in the forefront and trying to Make things happen and grow the sports, to activate other people in the, business industries, real estate, as you mentioned, et cetera. I think we have a big job ahead of us. We've done some of it, but it's about tie all the ends together. That's what we're trying to do here. I think that we haven't spoken that much about influences and kind of celebrities yet, but I think in the beginning and an infant stage, it helps sports. It helps anything. It helps brands. You get on people's radars that way. Then at the end of the day, the product needs to be stronger, the club needs to be well managed, et cetera, but it kind of ties, a new sport together with a consumer that maybe they didn't know about before. So I think that's also, we'll play a bit of a role here going forward as well.

Alex Inglot 35:38

I think that's probably true because in Europe, you've got a lot of Formula One drivers, soccer players, soccer coaches, these people, really create a bridge to a new audience that wouldn't normally stumble across padel. In the U. S. that hasn't quite happened right. You've got Jimmy Butler in Miami. He obviously is very close to Wayne. He's done a lot of work around reserve, and I think there are some NHL players who are, I think, pivotal. Do you feel like there is more opportunities to try and reel in those big names that cut across into youngsters and into trends and into social media?

Marcus (2) 36:13

Yeah, a hundred percent. Some of these, they have strong followings, in various channels and they are idolized by a lot of people. And of course, that's a big opportunity. And we seen it worked in other market. And I think the beauty with pedal is also that a lot of these global ambassadors for the sports where you have Ronaldo or messy or Beckham. I mean, everyone in the big stage sports community are into pedal. They fall in love with the sport and they become ambassadors for the sport. So of course it's up to us and you know, guys like Julian and other club owners and our portfolio companies to bring them in and show them what Podale is and, how good of a time it can be, and then it's up to them how involved they want to be. If they just want to play, or if they actually want to become part of the industry.

Alex Inglot 37:01

I've got one question probably more specific to you, Marcus. You've seen a lot of investment decks, from people who are trying to set up business in the U. S. In terms of the actual document and the business plan, are there any do's and don'ts that you could recommend or suggest to those people who are trying to play their role in the growth of the sport in the country?

Marcus (2) 37:25

Yeah, I think, it's usually a big put off for us as investors, people try to get their business valued at a very high valuation before it even started. I always say that, the most important thing when you're starting just with a deck or the PowerPoint and you go out towards money, you have no proven track record, at least not what you're trying to do right now in that city or in the space is get your first location open. Get the money and get the first location open. Of course you shouldn't give away your entire business right away, but whatever it takes, however you want to structure it, there are different ways to do it. I don't have to go into details, but if you need to give up 40 percent or 50 percent or 60 percent or 70 percent of the business to get your first location open, do that. At least, most investors are like that. We don't want that the founders become employees of their own companies. That's not going to motivate them to come in and drive the community and be there maybe seven days a week, which is what it takes the first couple of years, and scale if that's the goal or whatever the goal is. It's not going to motivate them. If they do a good job, if they create a good top line and a good bottom line, et cetera, It will be good for them as well. But I think that's the one thing. And then, of course, you need to have worked through your finances of it. That needs to be a work through model. And we sit very Close and long with those groups and entrepreneurs, individuals and work through it. And that the assumptions are not too optimistic. You know, we know where occupancy rates are in the U. S. We know where they should be for an indoor location, what the potential risks are with an outdoor location, et cetera.

Julian 39:08

I mean, going back to Marcos, I agree a thousand percent what you're saying. We see these valuation of the clubs they're coming on with. They're completely out of their minds. You know what I mean? Putting those very, very high valuations, very, very high expectations. So we're trying to put them in their place and said, guys, you got to change this, you got to do this and be more realistic because It's easy to do an Excel sheet with crazy numbers and try to go and sell it. But, you know, we that we're in the business, we have a much more clear view of what the real numbers are depending on the markets and the demographics of the location.

Alex Inglot 39:48

Well, I think that probably about wraps up our episode. Again, please like, share and subscribe if the content was thought provoking. Please comment on LinkedIn or Twitter if you have any recommendations around our format, topics we should devote an episode to, questions we should ask, speakers we need to bring on. We want you, all those driving the next phase of the industry's future, to tell us what you want to hear about and who from. Thank you Julian and Marcus for joining us today. We will keep doing our best to cover all the angles of the Business Around panel, episode after episode. So, until the next one.