All The Angles Padel Business Podcast S2 E7: Focus on NY & NJ

New York is the City That Never Sleeps. Increasingly that is because residents are playing at padel in and around the Big Apple.

After Miami, those monitoring the pick up of the world's fastest growing sport in America will always keep a sharp eye on the New York and New Jersey, and so we are delighted to cover the region with two of the biggest brands in the region.

Padel Haus was the first brand that opened in Williamsburg in 2022, while Padel United Sports Club is a more recent addition to the scene in Cresskill, NJ.

We talk to the two founders to take the temperature of their respective projects and how they will springboard from their existing sites and help grow the game's impact across the country.

Transcript

Introduction

Alex 0:05

Ladies and gentlemen, damas y cabalerros, thank you for joining us for another episode of all the angles, the business of padel podcast, worldwide powered by the hexagon cup. This week, our focus is on New York, New Jersey area. I'm joined this episode by Santee from padel House, New York, as well as John from padel United Sports Club. We're fortunate to explore this area with them, two of the biggest pioneers in the space and in that part of the United States. Thank you both for joining us. Before we get started, if you enjoy this episode or have benefited from previous ones, please like, share, subscribe. It helps. So without further ado, let's get started. So I want to start by just looking at your career backgrounds and what you did before you decided to launch these padel clubs, these padel brands. Let's start with you, Santee. What was the highlight in your career and how do you think that prepared you to launch a padel business and a padel brand?

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 1:06

Yeah, my background is before opening padel House, I was in the hospitality business. I built and created multiple brands starting in New York, in the restaurant business. One of them Cosme, another one Atla. And I've always been drawn to building brands and experiences. So I think my background in hospitality and entrepreneurship gave me some insight and confidence to bring padel to New York.

Alex 1:32

And what about you, John, from your side, what prepared you for launching this endeavor?

Jon Krieger 1:37

The exact same thing. Which I can't believe. My career started off in real estate, specifically within retail and retail development. Manhattan, major metropolitan cities. So D. C. L. A. San Francisco, started off with soul cycle and then blue stone lane and other brands. And, it is just like Santi said, a true passion of mine to create physical experiences that bring people together. So, yeah,

Alex 2:03

Okay, that's excellent. So let's get right back to the beginning. So Santi, when you opened the first padel house. It was pretty much a virgin market, far from the latent awareness and interest that already existed in miami. So what convinced you that new york was ready for a padel offering when you started?

The Start of Padel Haus and Padel United Sports Club

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 2:22

I think New York City thrives on new trends and premium experiences. And I think that the city needed a proper padel facility. And I knew that if it was executed well, the demand will follow. I think that New York and in general, any city that does not have padel today has the potential to grow to multiple locations. And there will be the demand that will follow. I think that's been the case pretty much anywhere in the world. And the U S is just catching up, kind of last minute. To this trend

Alex 3:03

And just to follow up. So you correctly if i'm wrong williamsburg was the first location

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 3:09

that was the first location. Yes.

Alex 3:10

Yeah, so when you opened in williamsburg, Was that always the target in the Brooklyn area, or did you have other target areas in mind?

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 3:20

Well, I must have walked at least 115 spaces before signing that one. It was a 1 year pretty much of looking at spaces anywhere in New York City, meaning Manhattan, Brooklyn, Williamsburg, Dumbo. Queens, Long Island City, Greenpoint. But we landed at Williamsburg for two reasons. one is because that's where I lived. And number two, I think Williamsburg has the right mix of like early adopters and fitness focused culture. So I think that was perfect for padel's growth and for the first padel Club to open.

Alex 3:58

And John, turning to you, when you launched padel United Sports Club, you've started in Cresskill. And was that again, a specific target region for you, or were you also a bit more flexible about where you wanted to put your first flagship location?

Jon Krieger 4:13

my approach and experience was very different. I actually had never played padel. Never even heard of it 4 months before we signed our lease for the space. So I spent almost my entire life in the city, certainly my sort of adult professional life, building in Manhattan. I was actually across the street from Santi's, I think his first resturant Atla. Maybe 2nd. I don't

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 4:36

Second.

Jon Krieger 4:37

1st,

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 4:38

Cosmic came first.

Clubs Need More than the 20x10

Jon Krieger 4:39

so my offices preCOVID were 399 Lafayette. So my office looked at, we were on the 2nd floor, and I was there 4 days a week. I moved out to the suburbs, which I never thought I would do. Certainly not Jersey, because of COVID I just started building, better hospitality experiences around this area because there was nothing. And I was very new to the suburbs and the suburban sort of, like, way of life. I was approached by my current business partner, who was an entrepreneur who had also just left the city. and we were both actually just wanting to build kind of like a lifestyle fitness wellness experience. And Padel kind of merged into that. So in truth, neither of us had even played the sport until four weeks before we opened. And we did that at Racket X in Miami for about seven minutes. I would say I approach this really philosophically from a business standpoint and the supply and demand. And then this belief in the metrics that we had learned about in Europe and other places where padel's already been, well adopted. I think that it was a little bit of a roll of the dice on a personal level. I now play 6 days a week, and fully understand exactly where the sport is headed and, the adoption that will happen in the United States. There is no question. and we got very lucky. I mean, our building, which is about a 33, 000 square foot warehouse is in the middle of 1 of the most affluent suburbs in the country. And the rest has been evolving. Now we're obviously very excited about the sport and the growth and et cetera.

Alex 6:20

And so the offering at padel United is obviously wider than just the six courts that we can see clearly over your shoulder. So there's the spa and the spa adjacent services. Did you feel, I think you alluded to this in your last question, did you feel that that was necessary from the start? That it needed to be a 360 multi experiential kind of leisure and relaxation facility, rather than just a pure padel play?

Jon Krieger 6:45

Yeah, for me, yes. For the genre overall. No, just to be clear. I think that there's multiple models that will be super successful at this. But based on my experience and what I know is the already existing demand for that sort of alternative to a golf or tennis club versus sort of just padel right now, which is really only just starting to adopt and at a very small level percentage wise. So, I think where it would be in the next 2 and 5 years. It was critical that we had, you know, the pools and the gym and the restaurant and club and all that stuff. Because we're in a suburb, there's really. And this is no different than any affluent suburb, the golf and tennis courts, are either very premium and expensive or dying, right? Because they've been around for 30 years and it's just too hard to recapitalize them to meet the demands of a newer generation. so that was the opportunity that we saw, and I think that, again, I spent 20 years building in Manhattan and that is no fun whatsoever. And it's certainly gotten more and more complicated. To build something like this would have cost 3 to 4 times, the amount of capital, the time to build, and the rent. And so this is the model that we were very comfortable with and, for the most part, staying away from cities.

Alex 8:13

And Santi to turn to padel house. Touching on what John's mentioned, so what's your or padel house's approach to beyond the 20 by 10? Right. So your padel house is a lot more of a purer padel play. But that's not to say that that's all you guys offer in your venues. How do you approach the more diversified offering concept

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 8:34

I think that just like John said, there's costs associated with New York City that make you realize that you need to have ancillary services and just beyond the courts. I think Padel Haus integrates premier hospitality; it has a retail component with a juice haus, which is our food and beverage solution. We have a pro shop on site. We have community driven events. And also we launched what didn't exist in the padel world, which were memberships. Just to help with revenue. So today the 20 by 10 generates only about 65 percent of our revenues. The rest is shoulder services.

Alex 9:21

and santi can you touch a little bit about domino park? So domino park is very close to an existing indoor venue that you have. It's pretty much like a stone's throw away. But it's Outdoors, it's got an iconic location with iconic views. Can you talk a little bit about Why you felt that that was such an Interesting opportunity for the brand and such a powerful I guess exposure for the brand

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 9:47

Yeah, I think Domino Park, first of all, elevates the brand. And it creates a setting that, probably has never seen before. You see the skyline of Manhattan there. Beautiful sunsets, elevated platform on Domino Park, and it just happened to be, as you say, right across the street from our Williamsburg location. So, when we first opened in the first season was, um, this would be the third summer, three summers ago. It was all about visibility and exposure. There was a lot of people that did not know padel that just passed by, saw it, and walked in and wanted to give it a try.

Alex 10:23

so it's the top of the funnel for you guys, I guess

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 10:27

Yes. However, over time, we've realized that to operate indoor facilities gives you certainty on programming, on revenues and a few other stuff. So all of our future locations, besides Domino park, all of our current and future locations are going to be indoor.

Alex 10:48

Okay, and let's talk about pricing a bit. Because I think pricing is a hot topic in the u. s. padel scene. And generally, at least in my experience, I've been to padel House. I've played at padelfia in Philadelphia. I'm hopefully, get the chance to go to one of the sites in Boston. There's obviously Sensor and padel Boston have opened up fairly recently. But it's not cheap. And I think you touched on this, John, in one of your early answers. Can you talk, can both of you talk a little bit about how you approach the issue of pricing and perhaps more importantly, how you address or offset any concerns that are developing in the market, the wider market, as well as the N Y N J market about elitism and exclusivity around the padel experience. And maybe Santi, you can touch on this because obviously, you've got to offset your costs, but it does become quite A barrier to entry for some people, no?

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 11:39

Um, pricing, I think it's a topic that we can talk about it for hours, but I think our pricing at Padel Haus reflects the cost of bringing a world class padel experience to the U. S. Right? If you're comparing it to Europe, the sport has existed for decades, right? And building a facility here. And John probably will agree with me, but building a facility indoors here, requires significant investment in real estate and construction, top tier materials and to ensure the best playing conditions year round. And in terms of accessibility, we work to balance premium quality and inclusivity. We offer different types of memberships, different tiers of memberships. We have a pay as you go option as well. Community driven events to make padel available to a broader audience. But in general, I think what we are trying to do is grow the sport in a sustainable way.

Alex 12:37

and just before I turn to you john, like Santee, do you have programs? You talk about these memberships? Can you give us a bit more detail because I think there will be some who assume that it is just a elitist Experience, especially if you're on the doorstep of manhattan: It kind of has to be. But can you touch a little bit more about what you're doing to try and make sure that it is available to a broader range than just people who might think that it's just this exclusive experience

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 13:03

Yeah, actually we have probably 70 percent of our reservations are done by non members. You can either just walk in or download the Padel Haus app and you can book a court without having a membership. So it's accessible to anyone.

Alex 13:19

And john, what about you? How do you tackle some of the limitations that a Pricing strategy can impose upon you and the area that you're in?

Jon Krieger 13:31

So, as a 1st part of the strategy, which I don't think we actually intentionally did, but, we had a couple of, People who are in the industry who were close from an advisory standpoint, who gave us some of this advice. But, I would tell you the 1st 6 months before we opened up the wellness- 60 percent of the people who came in played for free. Nobody heard about padel here virtually, right? We're in New Jersey. Ironically, we're 20 minutes from the city, but the city has its own universe to tap into through social media, et cetera. So, in fact, we had to spend a huge amount of time explaining to people that this isn't padel tennis because that's a pretty

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 14:08

Right?

Jon Krieger 14:09

Prevalent sport around here. So we have a very different cost so we were able to do that. Right. I think that, what I've seen and this is my office. So I just every minute of every day I watched the consumer experience. if somebody plays twice, they're hooked. About a 90 something percent chance. So, I think it's important for us at least to allow as little friction as possible as it relates to the courts. And that 1st time play. From there, we have a, I would say we're just a relatively lower base in terms of our pricing. And we definitely have a relatively lower cost structure than I'm sure what Santi has in the city. You could talk about this in 2 contexts, right? The individual boxes, right? padel House, padel United, Reserve, et cetera. then you can talk about the sport overall. My general thesis here is that, I'm sure we all want to open a lot of these all over the country. And I know Santi is. We're looking and everybody else is as well. At this early of a stage it is really important that as many people play as possible. The sport really does the rest of the work. It's incredible. My entire life, I think I played every single sport, football, tennis, hockey, fairly competitively. There is no sport that I have found that is more addictive than this.

Alex 15:42

Amen

Jon Krieger 15:43

Just let the people play and the sport will do the rest of the. Or actually not the sport itself, but people like Santi other people, me will do.a lot of heavy lifting as well, right? To get these things open. But there is this sort of, it is just incredible. I mean, it really is. So There has to be, and there is already, I've gotten to spend a lot of time with the people who are helping drive this, a sense of sort of camaraderie and collaborativeness. And we're all sort of experiencing, at different levels, this for the 1st time, because the country is for the 1st time. And how do we all work together and leverage off of the information to ensure that, the experience for the customers is as accessible as possible and really and great.

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 16:31

Another thing I wanted to add here on pricing as well is, and this is because people tend to compare the prices of padel in the U S to Europe, right? Europe countries like Spain have 20, 000 courts. What would happen if they closed 15, 000 courts today in Spain? The prices will probably go up, right? And also the experience that you see in clubs like padel House, you mentioned Reserve, padel United, any other of the U. S. clubs, I think it's a premium experience and hence it reflects a premium price. And sometimes you don't get the European experience, which is more like a lower cost experience.

Alex 17:14

And just to build on the point, John, you made about access to as many people as possible. One of the problems that some, up and coming markets in padel have, it's not unique to the U S, is getting kids interested in it. Obviously you get a lot of adults through the door, middle aged people, older people, they've got disposable income. They've got the curiosity; free time. They come in, they get hooked as you said, but the base of the pyramid that is youngsters and kids, which will hopefully become the talent and the pro players of the future. It's a big, focus, not just for individual clubs, but obviously the FIP as well. Is this something that both your clubs think about, about working with youth or community centers or schools or universities to try and build up that young component of the player base? Can you touch on that, John, first?

Jon Krieger 18:02

Yeah, so every single member virtually has, 2 to 3 kids under the age of 12 here, right? We are in a suburb. I would say 70 percent of our market within a 6 mile radius had moved from Manhattan in the last, you know, 5 to 7 years. and I have 3 kids, 6, 3 and 2. My 6 and 3 year old play 3 to 4 times a week. It's the same thing, right? It's an incredible sport for kids. And so I think at this point now, almost 80 percent of our memberships, we have a family and individual membership. So our family memberships and we've increased our kids clinics almost 70 percent in the last 2 months. And again, so I'm like the focus group, right? I'm just watching my kids especially when you, when you think about other sports, that might be a little more violent and, all this stuff around head trauma It's, again, it's a perfect layup, but it's not because like, I'm so smart. It's just, it's the sport.

Alex 18:57

Santi, do you have that kind of arm in your strategy with regards to kids and youth?

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 19:03

In terms of strategy, yes. I think we're starting partnership with local schools and organizations to introduce padel to kids. we've partnered up with a few universities here in New York City, NYU. We have a group from Columbia, but in general, just like John mentioned, kids move out of the city or parents move out of the city to have kids. So, because of that, we don't have that many kids, playing today at the New York City locations. But going forward and when we go to other cities and our clubs are located more closer to where families are, definitely, I think it's the future of the sport. And once the sport can make its way to universities, I think when that's when the whole game is going to change. And then your generation of players are going to start playing.

Jon Krieger 19:54

and on that point, we're actually launching, because we're surrounded by a couple of pretty high profile tennis universities here, so we're launching in the next month, a college membership. Which will be heavily reduced during accessible for off hours, which is ironically when the college kids are around. so I agree, once this gets into colleges and that age range there will be this tipping point, I think.

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 20:21

This is a problem nationwide in general. A lot of kids a lot of teenagers are not playing padel because it's not a sport that will get them a scholarship to go through college. So they're choosing tennis or probably some pickleball, but once that changes and the sport can get kids into college. And there's a few groups already putting things in motion. I think that's going to be a tipping point.

Alex 20:45

I 100 percent agree with both of you. I had a conversation with Ryan Redondo from Tactica about this. Because my brother was a tennis student athlete at the University of Virginia from the UK. And it was for him up and pivotal to his whole career, to his ability to do a qualification at the same time as pursuing and actually progressing his tennis career I think he believed at the time that he would step backwards in his tennis abilities by going to a college For three or four years. But it actually did the opposite. It completely Supercharged his confidence and his abilities and he went on to have a pro career for almost 20 years. So I think it's not even just a game changer for america, right because I agree with you that american parents will take padel Seriously in a way that they don't now, if they know that it might be able to get Their son or daughter through college potentially on a scholarship. But actually international as well I mean virginia had indian kids coming playing tennis, You have bulgarians coming playing volleyball on the college program. So if you had a padel program That was also available, like the existing scholarships to international talent. That might be a game changer for a lot of international parents as well, from India, China, other parts of the world who would go, well, I want my son to go through university or my daughter to go through university in the U S. Now padel can help them. At the moment that doesn't exist. But I think, as you said, people in america probably have a sense that This would be a game changer and that's why there's people working on it as you mentioned. But I think internationally as well It's the international Ecosystem of padel comes to realize what a pivotal thing this can be for parents Investing in their kids and choosing their kids Future sports. Yeah. Game changer is an understatement.

Jon Krieger 22:28

I think the 1st opportunity for that is in the Olympics. Behind the scenes, you can obviously integrate the colleges and all of that. But I think the Olympics is really the 1st opportunity to bring this on to a much more widely globally accepted and adopted sport. And it'll happen. It's just a question of when

Alex 22:47

We were talking obviously about the base of players. What about the split of men and women? How does that look in your respective clubs? My sense is actually, it would probably be fairly good in both your clubs, but I don't wanna speculate. And what's the key to encouraging women to pick up this sport and play? Santi, you wanna have a go at that first?

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 23:05

When we opened almost three years ago, the first club, I think we were probably 90 percent men, 10 percent women. This has changed. I think now we are probably at 65 percent men, 35 percent women. And we're continuously encouraging female participation. We are creating dedicated leagues just for women. We're hosting tournaments and we integrate more divisions for women. We've brought female coaches on board and that's also been a game changer. My girlfriend, for example, she's a player. She just started playing, about a year and a half ago or two years ago. And she was telling me all the time. I would take lessons five times a week if there was a female coach. So I think that's helped a lot. And just creating events that are targeting women.

Alex 23:59

And what about from your side, John?

Padel & Pickleball

Jon Krieger 24:01

so we have this very different. dynamic again, just because of where we are, right? Like I mentioned, 80 percent of our memberships are family memberships. So virtually everybody, is married and so they'll bring their wife. So if we started off 80, 20 men to women, we're now at almost probably 60, 40, and I can see it going to full 50, 50, like very quickly. My wife that started playing three weeks ago, I don't remember when, but it happens to everybody, but I would say like her second lesson, she woke up in the middle of the night and she was like, holy shit, I can't wait to get back on the court tomorrow. And now it's over right? 3 days a week, 4 days a week. To me, it's like a little lab. I get to watch. It's the same thing for everybody. It happens to everybody. The bug, the itch, whatever, like, it just happens. so I think, our location benefits from just having this natural. The husband may start off, then the woman comes. And maybe they're just starting off and they're like, yeah, I just really want to use the gym and the pool. Eventually they make it onto the court. I

Alex 25:02

fair point. And I think now is a good point in this conversation, just to talk about the elephant in the room, which is Pickleball. So how do your respective businesses and brands treat Pickleball? Do you see it as a rival? Do you see it as something that you want to bring into the fold of what you offer? Is it something that you're, pretty ambiguous about or not concerned? How do you guys approach the pickleball phenomenon and the difference between pickleball and padel? Is that a problem? Is it a solution? I'm just curious of your views on it. John, do you want to get started?

Jon Krieger 25:39

I have very shstrongpinions about it.

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 25:43

I was hoping he would go first.

Jon Krieger 25:46

You could see it in the smile.

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 25:48

Yeah.

Jon Krieger 25:50

As an individual, it's not my sport. I'll say that. I think for anybody over 65, I think it's the greatest thing in the world. As it relates to integrating within the club, we're all in on padel. If we could have four more courts here, we would. We originally, when we were building, because of how new the sport was, we spent a couple of weeks sort of just torn on, do we put a tennis court in just so it's like a feeder. It was never going to be a pickleball court. And now, the more courts we could open, in my opinion, the better. So I don't see us integrating into that. I could see an acquisition of an existing business and then transitioning existing pickle courts into padel courts, something's already up and running and we're looking at a couple of opportunities like that. There are some much larger facilities, you know, to the tune of 100, 150, 000 square feet that have, you know, 9 tennis courts and 12 pick up, maybe it exists in that capacity for us as a brand, right? But in terms of. That would have to come through an acquisition. In terms of our strategy right now. It's to open up indoor facilities, if we can get a 1 or 2 courts outside. that would be great too. But no less than six courts and up to eight to nine, and then our wellness. But again, for me, pickle is a great sport for anybody over 65 years old, it's just not my cup of tea.

Alex 27:27

Santee any plans for pickle house?

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 27:30

No plans for a Pickle House. I think pickle is not part of our offering in the future; probably not in our lifetime. but I do think that pickle in a way, and all racquet sports are complementary to each other. Like somebody that plays tennis doesn't mean that they're not going to play pickleball. So they play pickleball doesn't mean they're not going to play padel. so they complement each other in a way. I also think that pickleball has a good place in society because it's making people play a sport that wouldn't do sports otherwise. So I don't see Padel Haus integrating pickleball, but, I do think that it helps in a way. And I also think that there's a 1 way conversion from tennis to padel and from pickleball to padel. It doesn't go the other way. People, people just come to padel, but padel players are not leaving their padel rackets to go play pickleball.

Jon Krieger 28:24

Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, I played tennis for 30 years. I don't think I've picked up a racket in a year.

Alex 28:29

Yep. No, I'm the same. I grew up on tennis

Jon Krieger 28:33

I've heard that from 70 people.

Alex 28:38

think it's a

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 28:39

actually,

Alex 28:39

trodden well trodden path

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 28:42

We started a program that we would, if you brought your pickle padel or your tennis racket, we would buy it off you and we'll give you a padel racket.

Alex 28:55

That's great, I like that

Jon Krieger 28:56

Great idea.

Alex 29:00

Let's talk about the future. So Santi, I think you're about to open in nashville. I think you announced atlanta quite recently. Can you talk us through these two locations, and what they mean for padelhouse for the next three to five years, in terms of growth, expansion, diversification of offering? What's the theory behind it?

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 29:19

Yeah, I think Nashville is the first one. Uh, Nashville is a fantastic facility. It's already fully built. We're opening, we have the grand opening in a couple of weeks on February 20th or so. We have 8 courts there indoors, all of them, high ceilings and we have, we announced just this week, the start of the construction of the Atlanta location. We have 6 indoor courts there. We have a Denver facility as well that is under construction, also six courts indoor downtown Denver. And those are our 2025 projects. Well, we have one more project here in New York in Greenpoint, which is a ground up building exactly in Macquarie Park that is going to be ready by this summer as well.

Alex 30:08

And so are all the experiences going to be very similar to the existing padelhouse experiences, or is there going to be any variety or nuance in what you offer in different markets?

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 30:20

Pretty similar. We have a few additional things in the Nashville location. There's a 40, 000 square foot warehouse and we have a golf sim. We have a music room. We're going to launch a kids room as well in the Nashville location and something that I believe John has, we're going to have a robotic massage table

Jon Krieger 30:44

The A scape?

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 30:46

Correct. How is it working for you guys?

Jon Krieger 30:49

It's great. It's actually, it's good.

Alex 30:53

I'm very intrigued about that. I saw that on the website a few weeks back and I was like. Do I trust the robot to massage me?

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 31:01

Yeah, we're launching that in Nashville as an experiment. but I really like the product.

Alex 31:07

And john, can you touch a little bit about what's the future for padel united? I'm gonna bet that this is not your only one location that you're sitting in now. At least for the medium and long term. So what's the future for the brand and locations and geographies and offerings?

Jon Krieger 31:23

We're going to be very, I would say, patient, and we're going to be very opportunistic. What we've learned thus far, and honestly, like as much as the business has been open for six months, the wellness only opened two and a half weeks ago. So for me, It's about understanding and learning all of the different dynamics that we can between membership, court play, spa utilization, gym, et cetera. And we've already now as a baseline know that, we won't look at less than 50, 000 square feet. Because we just, we're stretched right now. We have a couple of sites that we're looking at in Westchester, Long Island. My background is in real estate. So, working with developers on larger projects, around master planning, in suburban, affluent suburban areas is really what our focus is. but we're going to be opportunistic. It's just that out of everything I've built in my career, this is an engineering project. I mean, the utility rooms that exist, to power a 20 person cold plunge and a 45 person sauna and salt scrubbing and mineral release into these. It's just wild. And again, I want I want to lean in as heavily as possible.. Into the wellness, longevity, regenerative field, right? padel is padel. The courts are the courts and, as many as we can get, we'll put in. But we have this sort of model that we're looking at that combines these 2 things. And both are equally as important. 1 will continue to,evolve. So, we brought in the A Scape. We have the immortal chamber. We're now looking at hyperbaric chambers. That's a very important part of this business for us. We're integrating, we'll announce in a few weeks with a huge, medical, company that'll have a facility in here. So those are the pieces that we need to be really sharp around. That have all kinds of infrastructure and engineering things that have to be done really, really carefully. So, yeah, certainly we're going to grow and we're going to open up locations. But I'm not 1 of these guys sitting here telling you that, yeah, we're going to have 10 in the next 12 months. That's not the case. This is the long game.

santiago-gomez_1_02-09-2025_090418 33:45

Also

Alex 34:18

And one thing I wanted to ask Santi you might be better verse to answer this than john. But obviously john, you may have a view as well. So in Europe, you have this padel y Cañas kind of community atmosphere that it's not padel unless you have a beer afterwards. And a lot of people that really resonate with padel, especially in Europe, is the social right? The music over the speakers, the drinks, the cocktails, the beers. Is that as important a component of the offering in the U. S. as it is in Europe? Or does the U. S. have its own spin on that? And what about you, John? Obviously, you've got this wellness, 360 body, attentive feel to your club. But is that mutually exclusive or, does that work well with a kind of a laid back, switch off, let your hair down, relaxed vibe that padel seems to have in Europe?

Jon Krieger 35:44

Yeah. So we're about 30 days away from finishing the build out up on another mezzanine across from here of a 35 person bar and restaurant. So, to give you a sense of how much we believe in the importance of that. But I think what's unique here is that, and exciting to be honest, is that you have two guys on here, right? Santi had really two of The best restaurants in Manhattan, at least 2 of my favorites that had an unbelievable following and vibe and energy, right? I actually own a restaurant 3 blocks away from here to 300 seat restaurant with 4 bars is just ranked best restaurant, New Jersey. So the approach to this from at least the 2 of us is from this sense of hospitality and social dynamic, right? That's a honestly, it's a gift to the sport, but it's a really great thing for the culture overall, Right? That this is at our core. I'm going to speak on your behalf, but at our core, these are the things that drive right hospitality and a unique energy and vibe and experience. So, I mean, that's that's a great thing that will show up and prove to be very valuable. For Everybodyy

Alex 36:54

And can you touch, I think, Santa, you mentioned this, the challenge of real estate and planning in the U. S. Is the challenge in the fact that it's quite varied? Is the challenge in it that a lot of people don't quite know what padel is and so you've got this kind of Nervousness from people who do the planning who do the regulations? I know that the real estate and padel or property and padel event was at your venue recently john But can you touch on the challenges that,or not, if the case may be that way, that the real estate infrastructure and ecosystem around planning and regulations. What role does that play? And is it a real obstacle or actually it's fairly smooth.

Jon Krieger 37:33

So real estate developers are tapped into the Zeitgeist and this is front and center. You won't find a real estate developer that hasn't been pitched a padel club or hasn't heard of a padel club, right? I don't think that's the issue. The fundamental issue is that you need 25 to 35 foot ceilings and 35 foot wide column spacing, which virtually doesn't exist. It is a very difficult box to find. Like Santi said, he's been at this for 4 years and probably looked at 100 different things. And all I do is look at real estate. So, it's very high barrier of entry. Because of, I would say those 2 reasons, ceiling heights and column spacing.

Alex 38:16

And do you feel like with the proliferation of interest in building clubs, are you finding actually that although you already had a very tight window of opportunity in terms of locations. Now the competitive landscape has become so difficult. That actually, even if a warehouse or a site comes up, now, instead of two or three people looking at it, there's 20 people piling in trying to put in a padel venue, some reputable, some with experience, some trying their first shot. Has that become more challenging

Jon Krieger 39:45

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I spoke, we had a lot of the guys here from Miami, and I think you're seeing a lot of that in Miami. And I don't think it's any different than any trend that exists that I've seen over 20 years in any category of brand, right? Something that comes in. And that's exciting and has good margins. People are excited about and then you get, 100 entrepreneurs who run at it. 90 of them have no idea what they're doing, but have convinced somebody to give them a bunch of money. And then it usually takes about 24 months for 90 percent of those leases or half built spaces or fully built spaces to just churn. This I think will suffer from that in an extraordinary level, because of the complexities around permitting. So, when you're taking an industrial warehouse, if that's what people are going after, you need to have that rezoned for a fitness or athletic use. That could take anywhere from 3 months to 2 years, depending on where you are. And nobody's paying rent for that long or allowing that burn to happen. So, it's exactly like Santi just said. This will all happen over the next few years. We just had a club that opened up and 4 months later in New Jersey closed down. And will keep happening.

Alex 40:59

and can you touch a little bit about investment? You just mentioned about people paying money. How important has investment been in your respective brands evolutions, and will it continue to play a role as you try and build out and find new locations? What do you look for from investors and from the investment community more generally? And what about you, John? What's your take on this?

Jon Krieger 42:17

So, for us, it was just critical that we actually didn't bring in a strategic capital, but that we did this with, just a small group of really neighbors and friends. And that we own, really the majority of this business and that we did that and we're able to maintain that position until we were able to get this 1st, 1 up and running and understanding what this was. Because if I told you the amount of iterations that we made during the build phase, had we not had patient capital or the ability to make quick decisions, it would not have been a great process. And so right now we've been having meetings and obviously there's a lot of capital that's looking for who and what to put into and, everything from the balls to the rackets to the actual clubs. But we're being very, very, very patient and very slow to make any decisions and just having conversations because, one, we don't need to take on any capital. And two, I think that once we understand exactly how many locations and the specific locations that are lined up and a very clear sense with a buffer of how much capital we need to open those locations. only then, and obviously the right group, which is everything, right? Only then will we start to make some of those decisions.

Advice to Investors

Alex 43:36

and what advice would you give to investors when looking at clubs and brands to get behind, do you have any kind of do's and don'ts that you would suggest to them based on your experiences already to date?

Jon Krieger 44:10

Yeah, and I think even to parlay off of that, if there's somebody on an executive or leadership team on a business plan, if there isn't an individual who's actually built, physically built, whether it's a significantly sized restaurant or a multitude of brick and mortar concepts; but it's a finance guy and somebody who ran like tennis clinics at a club. I would walk away faster than anything. This is like, 80 percent of this is a real estate development project. And I've seen 42 business plans of some creative Instagram person, and it's like, yeah, which 1 of these ever put a hammer in the ground, right? That to me would be the biggest red flag.

Alex 44:52

Well, we're drawing towards the end of this, episode. I just wanted to get your thoughts on the U S scene generally. What do you see in the future for the U S markets? And what do you think are the most important opportunities and roadblocks that need to be tackled or addressed for the U S market to really reach its full potential?

Jon Krieger 45:51

yeah. For me, I think, guys like us are going to continue to build facilities and that's going to be important, I think, relative to the scale and the opportunity, it's going to be pretty small in comparison to what the demand could be. It's much easier to open up a pickleball club or outdoor pickle facility than it is a padel court. But that is what it is. I see things like the opportunity around media and marketing. I think that what the reserve cop has done is crucial for the sport. I think that some of the events that you've done, in Brooklyn and the potential for that with larger sponsorship is a very important thing. I think there's been a lot of volatility around some of the initial infrastructure that was put into place and some of the leagues and other things. As that stuff starts to become a little more sturdy, I think it will help benefit the sport overall. but somebody's really got to take the reins and start to do what really honestly, guys like Wayne Boych and Reserve Cup and others are doing and what, Santee's done. He's really like a 1st mover here.

Impact of Pro Padel in the US

Alex 46:54

And do you think, you touch on the reserve cup, things like the pro padel league, the fact that premier padel is to coming to Miami in the next couple of months. Do you think these are all things that really moved the needle for people who already play padel in the U S? As well as people who haven't heard about it? Do you think it really is a key piece of the marketing mix from your points of view?

Jon Krieger 47:17

it is and then you don't have any courts to go follow up on, right? Relatively speaking. That may generate a huge amount of attention online and on socials, but then where do you go play? Yeah. And I think that relative to what the exposure might create in terms of a demand, they're just, there aren't really that many places to play right now.

Call for Support from Listeners

Alex 47:58

They have to go hand in hand, I guess, is what you're saying, right? Because otherwise the supply and demand goes off balance. And my final question before we wrap up. This goes to a lot of people in a lot of markets. How can externals, i. e. non Americans, how can externals help your projects or the U. S. ecosystem more generally? What's the call to action for those listeners?

Jon Krieger 48:20

We have a ton of support and guidance and information from a lot of different groups out of Europe, specifically in Spain, who've been watching this or a part of this in some capacity, for the last 10 to 20 years. They are heavily invested, in the success of padel in America. so I think that, they are actively looking to align and then support the growth of individuals like us, right? Who want to go out and expand. From my standpoint, I see a lot of support, from groups out of Europe and Spain.

Alex 49:33

I think that pretty much wraps up our episode. I mean we've covered so many topics. Thank you so much. Again, please like share and subscribe if the content was thought provoking. Please comment on linkedin or twitter if you have any recommendations around our format topics We should devote an episode to questions. We should ask Speakers we need to bring on we want you all those driving the next phase of this industry's future To tell us what you want to hear about and who from. Thank you santi and john for joining us today. We will keep doing our best to cover all the angles of the business around padel episode after episode. Until the next one