The ConverSAYtion
The ConverSAYtion is simply a couple of middle aged men sharing company and conversation. Psych and K take their time sorting through so much to say about society, culture, relationships, education, finance, technology, health, and more. Inspired to find engaging ways to entertain and enrich the lives of their listeners is their primary pursuit. Join them as they invest themselves in providing value to their audience. Welcome to The ConverSAYtion.
The ConverSAYtion
Spirits of Resolution: Ending Conflicts with Vodka
Dive into an unexpected journey as we explore the connections between vodka and conflict resolution. This episode takes a unique perspective on communication, discussing how sharing a drink can be a powerful tool for mending rifts in relationships. We analyze the significant historical contexts where vodka played a role in peace ceremonies, bringing awareness to how emotional expression is vital during conflict.
Join Psych and Letter K as they share insights on the importance of emotional intelligence, active listening, and the balance between stoicism and vulnerability. We guide listeners through the complexities of human emotion in conflict, offering practical strategies for constructive dialogue and understanding. Whether it's around the dinner table or in the workplace, knowing how to navigate disagreements fills an essential role in building stronger relationships.
This episode challenges listeners to engage with their own experiences of conflict and encourages them to consider how different approaches can lead to healthier outcomes. Grab your favorite drink and join us in reflecting on the journey of communication and connection. Don't forget to subscribe, share your thoughts, and engage with us!
You don't gotta do it if you don't want to. You don't gotta do it if you don't want to. You don't gotta do it if you don't want to. It's just a suggestion. There's nothing in the glass. Hey, welcome back. Welcome back to the Conversation Podcast. I am Letter K. I have a question because I'm starting to grow up my beard a little bit here. I've started to occasionally let my hair out. Which do you like better? Like comment. Subscribe. New bottle today, and my partner and compatriot Syke is going to tell us why he selected this during our communication series.
Speaker 2:So, yes, communication series. So yes, communication, conflict, conflict resolution. I was looking for a spirit that had been used at the end of conflicts Usually peace treaties some sort of commemorative, some sort of ceremony. They use something to commemorate what has just happened, especially if it's war, if there's an alliance that's built. So, going back through history, pretty much whiskey and vodka or bourbon and vodka, were the top choices, the top choices, although many of those ceremonies and the things that happened afterward weren't public. There wasn't any photos or videos of hey, there's just a bunch of politicians and leadership, leaders and dictators and so on and so forth getting in a room and they're not.
Speaker 1:They're not advertising what, what they're drinking they don't let the, they don't let the serfs or the rabble take credit for the end of a war no, so I selected vodka.
Speaker 2:we haven't had any vodka yet, so that was. That was part of the motivation. Uh, the other part was it was like I just said, it was used so much throughout history. I was kind of partial to the vodka that was used in John Wick, although I was unable to secure it in time, and so I thought why not A little bit of grape juice, a little bit of imported vodka from France? I know vodka does play its role and its part in starting many of the conflicts that need to be resolved, and if it can be used to build a bridge, offer that olive branch and make everything right, then why not try it? Why not try it?
Speaker 1:So to that end. So it's so funny. Cheers For me. I don't really think of vodka as a sipping medium, although this is really good. Yeah, years ago I was watching a, a video where they asked a bunch of bartenders questions, kind of fun, and they were asking them uh, what do you, what drink do you serve that? You know that person's gonna to be a problem. And almost all of them said straight vodka. You get a chick who just gets vodka on the rocks and you know she's trying to get fucked up and she's going to be a problem later on that night. That's always been my perception of vodka In my dive bar days, live music and stuff. So I never really. You know I'm a martini guy. I like a vodka martini. I can't drink gin, it makes me sick, so I like vodka martinis. I love a kettle one martini.
Speaker 1:As you know, every year we go to the Roxy and I get a kettle one martini but I never really thought about vodka as just a sipping thing. Of course a lot of people think that vodka is like the premier sipping liquor.
Speaker 2:I sip vodka. I like it on the rocks, or neat.
Speaker 1:And of course you know, basie J agrees with you he's a big vodka connoisseur.
Speaker 2:He's right. Well, that's in part because it's a book series that he's going through where the author has all sorts of no, he's always kind of been that way oh, so this is just further inspired.
Speaker 1:I think it's just affirming his belief. But no, he's always done weird vodkas. We've always done vodka drinks here and there. He likes it. So and the last time we were over there which I got way too drunk, by the way, but he had those vodkas and you know, you know he had. He had the grape vodka, he had the potato vodka, he had the vodka made from whey.
Speaker 2:Not Ciroc. We're not talking about the grape vodka from Ciroc. Right where we've moved on. We're past Puffy P, diddy, diddy Sean.
Speaker 1:The whey. You can literally, if you can capture steam, you can make vodka from basically anything, apparently Because he had a bottle of vodka vodka made from whey, which was really good well, that's all.
Speaker 2:All distilled liquors are made and the color just comes afterwards from the oak or the, the, the barrel that they're using. This one, uh, distilled and bottled in france, I had heard. Maybe you'll know because of your expertise with all things, groceries. Yeah, of course. So the Costco vodka, the one that says it is made and bottled in France, from what there is, it has been told it has been sold In France. When they close and stop making Grey Goose, they allow the Costco Kirkland brand to go in there and make their product and bottle their product. Is that true?
Speaker 1:Is there any truth to that? So there might be truth to the way you say it. Most people think that the French Costco vodka is made by Grey Goose and that's incorrect. That I know for sure. But as far as using the facility, that could be possible, we could. That that I'm not certain of. I do know that their american vodka is a really good mixing vodka. Not to, not to, once again, support without being paid.
Speaker 1:But I like it all right anyhow. So good segue, good bottle choice, because today we're talking about the end of conflicts. I do want to spend a few moments. Why can't we be friends? Why can't we? I do want to spend a few moments talking about one of the concepts that I have been learning about from reading my management function books that deals with conflict, and it goes back to what I was saying at the end of last episode about taking your ego out and about emotional regulation. Have you heard of the concept of constructive conflict?
Speaker 2:Constructive conflict. Yes, I cannot say that. I remember it phrased that way. It's interesting, I think, just from somebody that's studied psychology and human behavior. We acknowledge that that's. That's a possibility, right to to go through something. You're stronger at right when you, when you're welding steel, if you're putting, if you're putting steel into a forge and you're you're crafting it into a well shaped blade and then you go quench it afterwards to harden the steel right. That's all very conflicting to the material, but then afterwards it comes out stronger what the segue fuck are you talking about?
Speaker 2:I'm talking about fine blades. Yes, I love knives, okay constructive conflict.
Speaker 1:Let's let's reel this one back in. So constructive conflict is a is a concept that is most often used in technology, environments, scientists and such.
Speaker 1:So absolutely no, I have no idea, it's also used in fast-paced business and I think it's catching ground these days. What it is is basically can we engage in conflict without any emotions clouding the argument? It has got to be one of the most difficult concepts in the idea of conflict resolution. So some of the big examples are we're collaborating, we're innovating a product. Examples are we're in, we're collaborating, we're innovating a product and, as you had mentioned before, one of the big things is, uh is, as you know, semantics, disagreements, things of that nature. But can we argue without with you know, and and only have the raw facts of the argument take place?
Speaker 1:It's entirely possible, of course it's entirely possible. But how probable? Do you see it as an easy thing, or is it something that most people are going to find challenging? Because once we start to argue, I start to raise my voice.
Speaker 2:Well, okay, so about 50 to 51% of the world's population are women Women are more in touch with their emotions and are, generally speaking, more emotional than men.
Speaker 2:I like where this is going. Yes, yes, this might take a turn and some of this may come out of context, so you have to watch the whole thing. If you just get clips of this, it might be bad, but but, generally speaking, women are more emotionally in touch and they they act and they speak and they respond in ways that are connected to their emotions. Right or wrong, generally speaking, that's undisputable, that's a fact. So someone who has knowledge of this and can make adjustments along the way. It doesn't mean that women have to allow their emotions to interfere with conflicts or with logical solutions, or so on and so forth. It does not mean that women have to allow their emotions to interfere with conflicts or with logical solutions or so on and so forth. It does not mean that at all. It does not mean that women are incapable of running through this journey and this rigorous path to a result that is optimal and desired by both parties. It does not mean that that cannot happen at all, but it does mean that they are going to have those emotions be an obstacle or hurdle, and most women are aware of this and most women know this. It just means it might be slightly more difficult.
Speaker 2:Then there are also individuals, men, who are their tempers run a little hot right their tempers.
Speaker 2:They know they have a temper, they know they're prone to flying off the handle, they know they have all this testosterone flowing through their system. They know they're a little bit more aggressive because men are more aggressive than women In conflicts. We want to win, we want to conquer, we want to fight, we want to win, we want to, we want to conquer, we want to fight, we want to triumph. And if that is motivating to them to get through this outcome, then then that might interfere. And then way, I would say, a third group, way an outlier those that are struggling with mental health, where now it's a combination of emotional irregularity and, just cognitively speaking, they have things that are inhibiting them from maintaining enough. I'm just this is just like the first time I've ever put these words together but basically, cognitively speaking, the way they're processing information is not aiding them in where this situation is going. They're not completely in control of the direction of their words and actions and thus hindering their ability to arrive at those resolutions.
Speaker 1:And again, anger might emulate a similar response, Because if you go into something angry or you let yourself get worked up and angry, you are not going to be able to effectively process the facts that you're trying to convey.
Speaker 2:People that are frustrated, upset or angry. They're not going to be participating in that interaction at the level that they are accustomed to doing.
Speaker 1:Okay. So yes, I personally think that constructive conflict is kind of a unicorn idea in most situations. But if you can take all the ego and emotion out of something and you authentically want to actively listen and actively learn listen like you're wrong, talk like you're right and find real solutions, that's pure collaboration and that is the pinnacle of conflict resolution.
Speaker 2:I like what you just said Listen like you're wrong, talk like you're right yeah, I love that. I would add to that that many people don't know what it truly means to listen or to talk, so I think those terms should probably be defined to the parties that you're imparting that to. If you're asking them to do that, they might not know what it means to listen and they might not know exactly what it means to speak. To arrive at the conclusion.
Speaker 1:That's interesting, and to that point I would argue that if somebody doesn't know how to listen, that unless they're trained to do that they won't be able to. You can't just suddenly decide to know how to listen. You're going to have to be shown. And I think I'm probably in that boat because I've I've gone through a lot of a lot of communications training over the years and I don't think that I was always a really good listener.
Speaker 2:So I'm looking up what actually. I'll think about it. I don't want to pause what we're doing, but active listening there's a teachers, elementary school teachers teach young students what it is to active listen. I'm gonna have to look at it because I have yet to teach elementary school students, but it's, it's something that they give them young and they kind of build upon when they get into the middle school and high school years. And I'll find it as we're going. But uh, yeah, don't, don't let it delay so we have.
Speaker 1:We have engaged in conflict resolution, whether it was constructive or just a flat out, just brawl, and we're screaming and throwing pots and kicking each other out and that kind of stuff we're done sounds fun, yeah, yeah, I can't wait to schedule our next one. Um, now, what so? What happens after? Because arguments don't last forever. If you have conflict, there's always going to be either a stalemate or a resolution of some kind. After you're done, what happens? What are the ways that we see the people engaged in the conflict and subject to the resolution are going to interact with one another post-conflict?
Speaker 2:We said what happens afterwards? Hopefully nothing for a while. Hopefully everybody gets along and is good for at least a period of time where that trust can be rebuilt. Because whenever there's conflict, the trust is going to take a hit. And respect too. Right, because if I disagree with you, what does that really? What does that mean? It means I one, I think your idea is inferior, so I don't think you're as smart as me, and if you're not as smart as I am, at least if we're not on the same level, then my respect for you is also going to take a hit. So there needs to be time built in for that trust and respect to level back up. It needs to, you need to build back into it. So hopefully it's just not one conflict and resolution, conflict resolution, conflict resolution after another. Aside from that, if we're talking about mature adults yeah, you're not Hopefully they can make a distinction between forgiveness and forgetting.
Speaker 2:We want them to remember, because we just went through, that that time was valuable and that time that we spent resolving that conflict had meaning and there was all sorts of lessons built into that.
Speaker 2:We don't want them to forget that, but we do want them to have some level of forgiveness. We don't want them to hold a grudge, we don't want them to become bitter, we don't want them to resent us or anyone else that was involved afterwards, because that's going to be counterproductive to the team persisting as a whole and being able to move forward successfully. And so long as they have a clear distinction of what it is, hey, we don't have to forget this. We might revisit this topic later, we might revisit portions of this topic and this might come up again. And we know we have a plan and a resolution for how we're going to deal with this in the future. So now we don't have to go through all, we don't have to struggle as much moving forward. But the forgiveness part we have to be able to set that aside and be adults and be professionals in our workplace.
Speaker 1:So I think that you're making a really good distinction and I think we need to separate conflict resolution from conflict solutions. So if we resolve something that has kind of a finality to it, but in most situations resolutions aren't attainable, All we are doing is coming up with a solution for what the conflict is right now.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought okay, so I thought you were going in a different direction. I thought you were saying resolutions is what happens afterwards, versus solutions solves the actual problem, because you can have a resolution without a solution.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. We're separate, gotcha, got're separate. I'm with you, but I think that resolving the conflict is the is the finality. Yeah, but it should be. But a solution can be a compromise, a stalemate, a treaty, some kind of temporary, some um activity that might cause the conflict to rise up again, and that's what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:You need to remember that conflict that's when you get a resolution is you remember what happened, you know what stung, you know what the wins and losses were, and you are incorporating the actual resolution into your life, into how you continue or go forward in future interactions with the person that you conflicted with. But if you just come up with a small solution like, hey, you know what, let's all just take a beat for the weekend and see how we feel on Monday, that's the solution. It might not be the right one. See how we feel on monday, that's the solution. It might not be the right one, but it doesn't mean that we're not gonna, not gonna, uh, all well, up all weekend, complain to the wife, you know, and and your buddies over beers and come back monday morning and be worse off than we were.
Speaker 2:But we did that, we did offer a solution, temporary, okay I just came up with one model, one I haven't seen before, for active listening. Uh, okay, so actually let's go. Let me go back to the first one. It was right here, come back, come back oh, baby, come back.
Speaker 1:I lost it all right, here we go.
Speaker 2:Model for active listening it's gone.
Speaker 2:Summarize. It's gone, understanding the page, that's fleeting. But the active listening, basically there was two or three models I was looking at. One had seven points, one had eight and basically it was listening and understanding that the listening might not solve your problem. You need to listen for the other person's feelings, you need to have the ability to empathize. Then you needed to be able to summarize what they're saying and be able to express in your own words, kind of like I was saying last episode hey, it sounds like you're saying and allow them the opportunity to confirm or object to your understanding of the material when I get back to it.
Speaker 2:There were some other good things in there, but that's more or less what it was. But if a person doesn't know how to do those things while they are listening, oh, one of one of the key points was making an extra effort to stay neutral, to almost be sitting across the other person, like you don't know them and you don't know the situation, to be able to take almost like an out ofbody experience where you can put yourself over there. You're flying the wall and this is happening and you're observing it and you've not. You have no skin in the game and you don't care who wins and loses and how. How are you to think about it? Just observing and being a party to what's being exchanged, taking it just for what it is?
Speaker 1:And that goes back to things like emotional regulation, what I said about taking your ego out of it. These concepts, there's several ways to explain them and obviously you found so many that you lost the one you wanted.
Speaker 2:But many of them were overlapping and saying the same thing. You lost the one you wanted, but many of them were overlapping and saying the same thing. It was just a visual support to guide students high school students mostly to what is actually required when we're asking you to actively listen.
Speaker 1:The empathy thing is probably, I think, one of the big keys, because when you're listening, you really have to understand what the person is saying and it's not just the words, because context will eventually separate words from feelings. So I can say one thing and if you're listening, you can know that I maybe mean something else. So I think that one of the things that maybe our generation wasn't really taught, that's really become a bigger part of the communication sphere nowadays, is the emotional, intelligent concept of empathy. So now, how do you learn empathy and I've been through several courses that teach it but how do you learn how to actively engage in an empathic understanding of what somebody's saying?
Speaker 2:Well, for some people it's innate. For some people they're just built with it. They're built different, they know it's in, it's a part of their character, it's a part of them and it doesn't need to be taught, and for others it needs to be modeled, it needs to be, they need to see it. So if they have two parents in the family and both of them are exceptionally logical and relatively harsh and don't really show emotion at all, don't really model how they're taking on someone else's emotional experience and adjusting what they say or do from there, at least if they don't acknowledge other people's emotions and both parents don't display how they adjust their interactions with those people accordingly, and if the child has no way of seeing or observing that they're going to be a little bit behind the eight ball because they're just not going to be aware.
Speaker 1:And, of course, too, I see a lot of things on the internet these days about how to be a real man. This is a big thing. Right now, we're adjusting to the open emotion concepts that are prevalent in our society today, and then you've got this secondary concept where it's like we need to scale back from that. So all of these be a man concepts, they all have kind of the same idea, and one of them is that you need to be, you need to be emotionless, that you need to be stoic, that you need to not basically not show your cards and your emotions or the whole deck. So so what? What are the? What are the ways that those those might be conflicting, and is there a benefit to not presenting your own emotions while you're actively engaging and listening to somebody else and understanding their emotions?
Speaker 2:Sure, without finding the exact thing I was looking for earlier. I wanted to go back to that just for a moment, because as a child, my family went to church and then we go to Sunday school, and one of the lessons I remembered through the years listening. They always taught listening was listening with your eyes, ears and your heart. It was all three of those components together and the heart. I think we're talking about emotion how to be aware of your own emotions, but, most notably, if you're listening, what are their emotions like? I think there's a little bit of a gap between communication now, because a lot of it is text-based, right? You're not sitting across from the other person, you don't hear their tone of voice, you don't see their facial expressions, you don't get to read their body language the emotional context yes, but he doesn't make.
Speaker 2:Going back to when, when should you be stoic and when should you be a little bit more open and caring and compassionate and empathetic and sympathetic and all of those things? I think it depends. It definitely depends on the context, right? If, if I'm involved in a hostile takeover of your company and you don't like it, right, it doesn't do me any good to play into your emotions, unless doing so is going to assist me in getting the result that I'm looking for. So then it's a matter of it's always a matter of results.
Speaker 2:What outcome do you want and what is going to get you to that optimal or most desired outcome in the swiftest manner possible? And it takes experience and education to figure that out. But does it benefit me in that situation to show the opposing party my emotions? And the answer to the question is no, then I should not. And does it take? Does it? Am I in any position? Um, let's say I'm the attorney, am I going to be able to best help my client by showing, by taking their emotions into account? And then, after you come to that conclusion, then act accordingly?
Speaker 1:I like how all your examples are so macro scale Hustle takeover. This is 1986. What are you talking about?
Speaker 2:We've really been getting into suits lately.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh.
Speaker 2:Goliath on Prime.
Speaker 1:I haven't watched that. No, I haven't watched it. Still watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer. So tangent suits, okay. No, I haven't watched it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, still watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer, so Tangent Suits. Okay, if I can make a recommendation, Okay. You are someone that truly enjoys film, cinema.
Speaker 1:I do like cinema yeah.
Speaker 2:Suits is not only is it, it's Cinematic, so it's it's cinematic, so it's it's adam, it's written, it's well written, I think, intellectually, you, you would find it stimulating. And they have so many movie references, yeah, film references throughout the movies. So we're going through it, we're taking a list of all the movies that are in the show that are referenced and we're going to go through and start watching all those.
Speaker 1:That's kind of fun. So I'm going to catch up on some of the things that you know.
Speaker 1:Gosh, it's about fucking time. So, scaling it down to individuals, we're talking about men being driven to present an emotionless character. You know, strong, stoic like stone. So how does that affect, say, you're arguing with your spouse about how to discipline or rear a child? Discipline or rear a child is is. Is there a benefit to showing emotion in that respect, or is there a benefit to being being the uh, you know, the the more, the more stoic, fact-based provider?
Speaker 2:so a couple thoughts. You mentioned men being the stoic, more stoic.
Speaker 1:This thing I see on the internet is driving men to never show their emotions, to never show their cards, to always be this straight-laced, pure robotic being.
Speaker 2:I think we might be moving back in that direction. That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:The correction yeah, because we over corrected or we were way too far with the pendulum this way. So, yes, okay, I don't disagree with that. So I I would only choose to show the emotion if it's genuine. I think we need to make a distinction there. When people, when people start to show or display emotions that aren't genuine, if they just think the other person wants to see them sad, or if they think the other person would benefit if they saw them hurting, and then they do that, then I wouldn't okay. So it's got to be, you got to feel it, you got to actually feel. Or if you're truly not in touch with the emotion that many other people would have experienced during that particular time, then no, I don't think there's any. I'm not asking people to. I would never promote people to be fake or disingenuous, so let's start there. After that, I wouldn't guide them that much away from what I expressed earlier.
Speaker 2:Think about what is the outcome you're looking for, what's the result that you want, and work your way back from there and then decide if the actions that you're about to do or if the words you're about to say are going to help or going to hurt your chances of arriving at that goal and some of it's trial and error. Right, I could say something to you right now and you could react positively or negatively, right? I use example, this example with students that I had years ago when I was teaching high school Okay, we're, we're teaching. I was trying to show them that things that they present might not get the response that they're looking for. Hey, okay, you give me some chocolate ice cream. You came, you came up to me and offered me some chocolate ice cream. You came up to me and offered me some chocolate ice cream and then, all of a sudden, I take it from you and I throw it against the wall and I start crying and I'm screaming my head off and I'm ripping my clothes and I'm going to the parking lot with a bat. I'm breaking everybody's cars. And how would that look? Oh well, that'd be insane. That'd be crazy. Like, why would you not just give you some chocolate ice cream? However, you didn't know that my father went out for chocolate ice cream on my birthday and you didn't know that he had forgotten it was my birthday and he was supposed to bring the chocolate ice cream home and my mom yelled at him and they had a huge fight in the kitchen and then my dad ducked his head, got back in the car and he went to a local convenience store in a bad neighborhood and there was a drive-by shooting. My dad died that day going out for chocolate ice cream.
Speaker 2:You didn't know any of that, did you? And I know it's extreme. All your examples are macro. Yes, it went extreme, but the point of the story was we can do something. We can do something in good faith and we can think we have an expected response. We can think they're going to be happy or sad or whatever it is that we're expecting. We think they're going to cooperate, we think they're going to agree with us, we think they're going to disagree, we think that, that, but we don't necessarily know until we try. And if and if we don't observe how they react and adjust from there, then where are we?
Speaker 1:vanilla ice cream next time. So, yes, vanilla. So, yes, context is a big part of it, and, no, you will not get it right every time, because you don't know what the person's thinking or what their experience is leading up to that moment look like. But so, talking about results, orientation, like you were saying, though. So back to back to the, the emotionless, stoic, you know, suffering, silence, man concept that is now as we're, that is now starting to re-emerge, as, with the pain swinging back, I've always been there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, calm down or stay calm, whatever you want to say now, now. So so, when you're engaged in conflict with somebody and this is, this, is your personality, that you've built yourself up to be this, this, this suffer and sound, stoic, emotionless person, what power does that give you when engaging in conflict with an emotional person, and are there any drawbacks to that stance?
Speaker 2:drawbacks I got questions today bro oh, I'm doing it up I'm I'm happy, to happy, to have them. So, drawbacks no, while I am more no, none, not for me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely not.
Speaker 2:So, yes, so, growing up, my father, he didn't show, he didn't show very many emotions, but I wasn't. I wasn't, I wasn't coming from this place where, oh, emotions don't exist because my father doesn't feel them, or he doesn't show them, or I don't. I don't feel them as much or show them Like I recognize there are emotions. It's one of the reasons I went to go study psychology I wanted to learn about them even more so. So I do make an effort to attempt to experience and feel and understand, as much as I don't necessarily understand automatically, like the things that are not necessarily built into me. I know their deficits, I'm aware that they're there, and I and I try to practice ways to bridge the gap between people that are more emotional than myself. So, so, yeah, so so for me, I mean, as a matter of practice, over the years that I've been doing the things that I'm doing, and it takes a continual. I mean it's a journey and there is a direction, but there's no destination. You're not there.
Speaker 2:With that in mind, and knowing that culture, norms and standards shift over time, I also have to keep in mind with what's going on in current events, or what just happened last week in the news. Oh, there's this thing trending on Instagram that's telling people that this is right and that's wrong. Oh, wasn't that reversed 10 years ago? Oh, where's it? Oh, five years pass and now we're back to where we are, or at least we're heading in that direction. Humans are complex and their emotions are even more complex. So just knowing that and knowing that, I am and do tend to be more logical and a little bit more. You know, I'm not prone to panic. I don't freak out when something goes really wrong, and I don't get overly excited when things are just exceptional and just I cut bullshit.
Speaker 1:I'm right in the middle. You freak out over the smallest things. Maybe the big stuff doesn't bother you, but I still remember the time that I touched that TV, behind you and by the corner.
Speaker 2:And you went what is this? Yes, yes, that that, yes, there's good reason. Is it still there?
Speaker 1:is it still work? Do you have dead pixels in the corner? No, I'm talking.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about more, like if the world is is crumbling around you and the sky is falling, like those moments like seriously, yeah, trivial stuff, like all right, I like this, I wanted to stay perfect, don't touch it Right, like I'm particularly.
Speaker 1:I know that and those are, yes you are right, so what you're saying is so what you're saying is stay calm and carry on. Yeah, okay, I was a really good and long-winded example of active not listening. Let me ask my question again.
Speaker 2:Did your emotions get in the way of me receiving that question? I missed the first. You had two facets to it.
Speaker 1:I missed the first one. It was one question that had two sides the line in the sand. Okay, Give it to me two sides the line in the sand. Okay, give it to me it is. It is. What are, what are the powers that you receive and what could be the negative connotations of not showing any emotion whatsoever during a a personal conflict? And I use as an example, uh, arguing with your spouse about how to properly discipline or engage your child, which can be an emotional thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it can be, and of course, it varies from couple to couple. Going back to what I said earlier about how, generally speaking, women are more in touch with their emotions, they're more emotional beings. What they do and say is usually more attached to emotions than men. So if women don't see their partner experiencing emotions, then that might be cause for concern. They might not think their partner cares, so that that could be a negative. Things like things like well, we're sitting at a poker table, a game of poker. You don't want the other person to know. You're freaking out on the inside because you're trying to bluff them off of the hand and you've got all of your money.
Speaker 2:You've got all your money in the pot, right? So there are times where it goes back to hey, is what I'm about to do or say going to hurt my chances of getting the outcome or the result I'm looking for, or is it going to help me? So?
Speaker 1:you're so so in your opinion, then the whole concept of the emotional stoicism that is becoming the benchmark of this new movement, or this reboot movement, because that's how generations past they were the same way, that going 100% in that direction has disadvantages, that it has to be contextual, it has to be situationally based.
Speaker 2:Case by case. You don't want to jump on a roof of a 20-story building with a jumper on it and going, well, how high is this? Or, oh, you don't like your life, well, you could jump or you could stay here. Right, that might not go the way you want it to, right. But if somebody's up there and they're dealing with their life and they think they can't go on, well, they're emotional.
Speaker 1:So I really need to watch this show suits, because ever since you started, all of your examples are these, these, theatrical. Just, I mean, you're out there, you. You went from, you're from honey. I think that we should ground our child for for a week, for what he did in school. Today to you're on a 40-story building roof with a person.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, absolutely. I've had to both talk people out of killing themselves and find people out there in the world that were connected to. So. One story a student I was doing some instruction what was it? Independent study Student. They were on independent study. They still needed services and schooling, so I would go to them. And while we're in the middle of the lesson, the student, who was a teenage girl, said oh yeah, I just got a message from my friend. She says she's going to end her life and like, okay, and I thought it was going to be easy because I worked for a district and the high school there's only one high school in that district. I was like, okay, I'll ask some questions, I'll find out who this is, it'll be easy, I'll be able to get this.
Speaker 2:This girl help but they live in nebraska so this my current my student met this girl when she was in a hospital for mental health, all the way in the middle of the state and great. So we spent well. We put our lesson on hold that that evening and we went through all of this location tracking with Instagram and stuff and I was able to figure out what we were able to figure out what county they were in and, based upon where they had posted, what school district they're likely to be in and their age would give them you know where they reside. So we were able to figure out where they were sheriff's department and everything went out there that night for a wellness check. We contacted their school and their principal was grateful and things like that. So, and that's just one of a handful of times where people have told me yeah, I'm not going to go. Yeah, this is it. If I don't graduate I've heard what girls if I don't promote from eighth grade, I'm going to end my life.
Speaker 1:Okay, and at that point, whether it's just a dry statement or a lark, you have to. I mean, as an educator, you have to take everything like that seriously.
Speaker 2:If nothing else, it's a cry for help and they're not unhappy with their current situation. So yeah, emotions. They need to know that you care.
Speaker 1:Yes, and so if you're like, okay, tell me more about how you want to kill yourself right now, and that's not going to go over. Well, because it feels like you're just going through the emotions. Yes, so I make the statement that being pure emotionless, being a strong man and showing that you can survive and go through anything without reacting to lick is going to be a detriment in many situations.
Speaker 2:As data from Star Trek was in many episodes. Yes, many episodes.
Speaker 1:He learned that emotion being emotionless, of course he had a huge problem with understanding the context of emotion. That was his big deal, so yes to that point.
Speaker 2:So do many humans.
Speaker 1:Yes, so do many humans, so do many humans. But, yes, yes, I think that the stronger man is the one who can dynamically change to fit the needs of the situation, and sometimes it's showing strength, and it's that stoicism, and it's the being, the rock, being the person who inspires others with their strength, and sometimes it's just having heart.
Speaker 2:Competence and confidence in males is priced. They have both it's.
Speaker 1:It's something that's sought out yes, being a protector, all that stuff, but it's just this paradox that a woman wants a man who's strong and smart and confident and can protect them, but gets mad when they don't understand what they're going through. So you need the modern man needs to be able to do both, be able to actively listen and understand the feelings of their spouse or their significant other, and also be the strong, silent. Silent type when necessary, sure, but it's always a when necessary concept. So the strongest man is the one who can do both and, conversely, the woman in that relationship.
Speaker 2:If we're talking about a man and a woman married couple, if she finds herself constantly upset that her spouse is not being vulnerable, not showing emotions, not being sensitive, she should also know that hey, wait a second. I married this big, strong brute right. And this is how he responds and acts when certain things like this come up. And many of the character traits that I value most in him are a result of his inability to do some of these things. And I should be conscious and aware that he does have feelings and he chooses to display them in different and ways that are different than I do, and those differences complement each other and should be more. You know that individual should probably be more accepting. Assume the other point of view, the other perspective, look at life through his lens when they make decisions about how to proceed.
Speaker 1:Though difficult to quantify, lack of emotional support and communication issues are cited in 50 to 60 percent of divorces. Communication issues are cited in 50 to 60 percent of divorces. In the 2015 study from the american sociological association found that women initiate 70 percent of divorces, often due to feeling unheard, unsupported or emotionally disconnected. But they married the damn brute because he was big, strong, he was going to protect her.
Speaker 2:Wow, that is such a paradox I would say if you can't protect and provide and you're just emotionally inept, yeah, you're probably going down that road. But if you as a as a spouse, protect, provide and all of your family's needs are taken care of and many of their wants, and you're also a little bit emotionally inept, I think your spouse will probably be more forgiving and those divorces will probably not be as high yeah.
Speaker 1:I could say yeah because you know when you're talking about failure, you know failure because of money, failure because of bad decisions.
Speaker 1:it's you know, so you're right. Those things, those things contribute and then suddenly, well, you know, we're arguing because of money and stuff and you don't understand my perspective because you don't know my feelings. Yes, I can see that, but if we're talking about the strongest type of perfect man, we're looking at a guy who is strong, can protect, is smart, confident, can provide and can also, when necessary, engage his emotional side. Does he have long hair like Samson? He does, he does. He's also six feet. Makes over $100,000 a year.
Speaker 2:And he's got a glowing beard.
Speaker 1:And his Irish beard is coming in, the beard of a warrior. Sorry, ladies, ladies, and taken, my wife loves that. I am all those things, although I do occasionally get too emotional, but that's not her problem. I love it. I love it. So did we solve communicating?
Speaker 2:We might have. I think we offered just about everything. Start with where you want to be, work your way backwards from there and then adjust course as necessary. If whatever you said or did didn't get you the results you were expecting or looking for, then you need to alter your course, and if people can just be mindful of that as they proceed, things will be just fine. If someone is hell-bent on pushing their agenda and they want it their way and nothing else will do and they're not willing to relent, then yeah, you're not. You're probably not going to get what you want now and you're probably not going to get what you want in the future, during future conflicts, which you're probably going to be experiencing more often. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:And if you can't, um, if, if you can't openly engage in conflict without removing your ego, without checking your emotions, without listening, then you're going to fail at that conflict. And if you can't present your argument in a way that has meaning, shows examples of what you're talking about and doesn't have a solution from your perspective, you're going to fail at that. Those things are the benchmarks of communication, in my opinion, especially not having examples. I mean they don't have to be Michael Bay level examples like the ones that you've been providing all episode, but you need to be able to find the way that the person understands and offer insight from their perspective Ego perspective, emotion.
Speaker 2:And we have an advantage. We have several advantages to choose from in this day and age with AI, I can simply put in a prompt ask. Some questions present both arguments. As I understand them Now, I recognize that it would be one-sided, so there will be human error introduced into that equation, will be human error introduced into that equation. But if it's done in its purest form, you could have this computer spit you out the pros and cons at the very least, or maybe even guide you to a correct answer and the best part is, if you're talking about raw facts, you have a cell phone chat.
Speaker 1:gpt will just solve that argument right there. Yeah, but yes, when you're talking about things that have more of a kind of a gray area, then context becomes a big part of that. Should we use?
Speaker 2:DeepSeek.
Speaker 1:No, let's talk about DeepSeek real quick. I'm sticking with ChatGPT because Grok's good Grok's good.
Speaker 2:You like Grok. Yeah, grok's good. I figured you were already using ChatGPT and I tried it and I still use it. I use it in my class too. I started using Grok personally. I thought we could compare and contrast, especially if we're doing the same thing. Of course, then we've got one side, I've got the other, and we're going to be better for it.
Speaker 1:So my it's called Chat Bro, something like that. Okay, it's Chat GPT, but they gave him like a Mountain Dew commercial Kyle personality, okay, and it is hysterical, like she asked it some random question about something or other and the response it had all the facts but it presented like bro. That's hilarious, lol, okay, kind of stuff like that. So, yes, but the thing is we do live in a day and age where if you're talking about facts, you should never have to question anything. I do it all the time where I start to talk to somebody and argue with them like what are you arguing about?
Speaker 2:yeah, there's no need. We should have less arguments now. Yes, so we did, and I witnessed some from my parents, as I know you did. It was about they were going back in their memory banks or they learned something years ago in school and they learned something else because they went to different high schools. And now we have to, we have to discuss this. This is a thing we don't have to do this.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I, when I looked up earlier about conflict resolution, fighting fair, not bringing up ancient history, name calling or storming out. Yeah, it all goes back to you know personal attacks, personal insults.
Speaker 2:Leave that aside.
Speaker 1:But it also goes back to using, using the. You know using. Well, I was told 35 years ago the male pattern baldness comes from the man. You know that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:So I was on the sideline for Varsity's soccer match on Thursday.
Speaker 1:How did your team end up?
Speaker 2:We lost to to. I think it was the third place team. I think they're still in third place, so we're in second. We're in second right now. The first place team we didn't beat, although we lost in the first match and we tied them in second. So we knew we were in second place, but then there was a match we should have won. There's some things that should have gone differently. That didn't anyway. Be that as it may, thursday's match was against a team that was our high school's rival and our fans were. They got stuff to say, other fans too, and the officials, the referees, stopped the match Because of the name calling and they came over to the sideline and they said you know what? We're not going to take this from your fans anymore. They've been calling us names and what they said was they said soccer referees are soft, are?
Speaker 1:they? I don't know, I don't watch soccer. Soccer referees are soft, are they? I don't know, I don't watch soccer.
Speaker 2:Soccer referees are soft and in quotes it was like we heard him say it and whoever said it has to come forward and are they going?
Speaker 1:to red card the whole team.
Speaker 2:And no, they said. They said the person that said it needs to come forward and admit it and they need to leave. And if they're not going to come forward and admit it and they need to leave, and if they're not going to come forward, then you have to clear the stance and if none of that's going to happen, then we're going to call the game and you're going to forfeit so not soft at all no big conflict.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the resolution was that the, the man that said it, came forward after a long period of awkward silence so we didn't know what was going on and then he reluctantly kind of meandered off. He didn't leave. They had to stop the game again to tell this, this man, he needed to leave the footprint of the stadium, and so he started. He started off again. The game did continue and vars Varsity, our Varsity team, killed them. Just let them have it. They were motivated at that point. We were kicking off. They sent off one of the players' dads, so they were fired up right.
Speaker 2:And they really gave it to them. But our match was right before them and the lights went out on the second half. With 20 minutes left in the game, all the lights went out. It was pitch black. Seven-minute game delay. Oh Jesus, yeah.
Speaker 1:Anyway, thanks for asking.
Speaker 2:That's how it went.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a solution, not a resolution. It's good. It's good.
Speaker 2:So we solved communication and if you and if you were actively listening now, you know the answer is adequately yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, we'll probably do something next episode to the tune of either Either I'll just shorten my, my, my obligations and you can just take over and we'll start a new series, or we'll just talk about nothing. I like that, let's just do that, Think of something interesting and be like what do you think about this interesting thing?
Speaker 2:I think we'll be kind of stealing the page out of Bill Maher's. Yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 1:Just sit there.
Speaker 2:But no, I like it. Yeah, we can talk, we can talk.
Speaker 1:That's the only reason we started. This is because we can't shut up. So thank you, Please, please, like subscribe? Tell your friends.
Speaker 2:Comment, share All of it, do it all.
Speaker 1:Communicate what you do and do not like about this program to us, and others.
Speaker 2:Do we like Kay's hair in its current?
Speaker 1:state. I really want to know. I really want to know. I think.
Speaker 2:The beard's fire though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's coming in pretty good. I think I'm going to let it go a little bit. See what happens, see if I start getting patches of gray. I think that would be kind of cool too, yeah.
Speaker 2:You want some of this yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep and boom. Thank you, we did that, we did that. Yeah, vodka, vodka, poof.
