The ConverSAYtion
The ConverSAYtion is simply a couple of middle aged men sharing company and conversation. Psych and K take their time sorting through so much to say about society, culture, relationships, education, finance, technology, health, and more. Inspired to find engaging ways to entertain and enrich the lives of their listeners is their primary pursuit. Join them as they invest themselves in providing value to their audience. Welcome to The ConverSAYtion.
The ConverSAYtion
Mother's Day Madness: $31.4 Billion and the Woman Who Created It
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Did you know the woman who founded Mother's Day was eventually arrested for protesting its commercialization? That's just one of the fascinating revelations we explore in this thought-provoking episode about the $31.4 billion industry Mother's Day has become in America.
When Anna Jarvis created Mother's Day in 1908, she envisioned a heartfelt celebration honoring mothers' sacrifices, not the commercial juggernaut that now has Americans spending an average of $259 per person on gifts, special meals, jewelry, and flowers. We dive into the surprising history behind the holiday and question whether this level of commercialization aligns with what most mothers truly want from their children.
Through personal anecdotes and cultural observations, we contrast the extravagant spending on Mother's Day with the more modest Father's Day celebrations, examining what this disparity reveals about our societal values. We also discuss the concerning trend of using buy-now-pay-later services to fund Mother's Day gifts, asking if going into debt for mom really honors her life's work of trying to help her children achieve financial stability and success.
What truly matters more to most mothers – your presence or your presents? Join our conversation as we challenge listeners to rethink how they celebrate Mother's Day and consider what founder Anna Jarvis would think of today's celebrations. The most meaningful gift might just be showing mom that her sacrifices were worthwhile by living well and spending time together, rather than splurging on expensive tokens of appreciation she never asked for.
Mother's Day Spending Statistics
Speaker 1You don't gotta do it if you don't want to. You don't gotta do it if you don't want to. You don't gotta do it if you don't want to. It's just a suggestion, come on. But so this article came out yesterday, as of May 9th.
Speaker 2All right.
Speaker 1And my topic for this is talking about. You brought up a really good point in one of the episodes about the snap thing. What it really said to me was people don't really spend money wisely. You know how I feel about that. But when the opportunity arises, they will also go out of their way to game the system.
Speaker 2Oh, okay, yeah, oh, you know what my mind went to Klarna.
Speaker 1Yeah, so I theme out. I theme out on things that are predatory towards consumers. And Klarna is not just Klar clarna, they're just one of. We've discovered one of dozens of international companies buy now, pay later yeah, that whole thing I don't like it, but bn pls but, but just a little bit of history. Mother's day falls on may 11th, which is tomorrow, for us sure, in this point time Did you delve into Mother's Day history?
Speaker 2Just a little bit Okay.
Speaker 1I know a little bit. In 1914, Congress passed a law designating the second Sunday in May in the United States as. Mother's Day, yeah, so sweet. And let me just read a paragraph from this article that was written by Jennifer Borison of the. Usa Today, when Yesterday it came out, may 9th 2025.
Speaker 2Oh, okay, alright.
Speaker 1Despite concerns about the economy, because you know Trump and his tariff war with China and this, that and the other economy consumer spending for Mother's Day is projected to reach $31.4 billion Billion Billion dollars. Okay, a recent survey from the National Retail Federation revealed that 84% of US adults plan to celebrate the holiday with an expected average spending of $259 per person. Okay, not per mother, per person as an adult engaging in the holiday, which is, which is only about five dollars more than last year. Okay, so 34 billion dollars. On mother's day, the most popular gift categories remain flowers, greeting cards and special outings. Sure, like meals, um, and that breaks, breaks down to consumers in the united states spending a total of 6.8 billion on jewelry. That is the number one gift monetarily for mother's day. Seven billion dollars on jewelry, I forgot my watch I haven't even did.
Speaker 1you didn't even put your own watch on, let alone what you've got for your mom? I did. Did you go to k's? Let alone what you got for your mom? I did, I did. Did you go to Kay's Jewelers and not get something for your mom? Yeah, I go to Kay's for me. Sorry, sykes, mom, I go. I live Kay for me. Oh, yeah, there we go we just do really in this.
Speaker 1This is, yeah, I am. Look at you. Oh sis, oh man, I like this. This is nice, you are such a doofus. $6.3 billion on special outings. $3.5 billion on gift cards. Here, mom, go to Starbucks. Total spending on flowers is expected to reach $3.2 billion, while total spending on greeting cards is expected to reach 3.2 billion, while total spending on greeting cards is expected to reach 1.1 billion. How much are greeting cards right now? I haven't boughta greeting card in like 25 years. Don't need, yeah same 1.1 billion dollars to be spent on mother's day cards this year. Okay, hallmark must just just be shitting themselves, I mean.
Speaker 2So yes, well, I mean, they do have their channel and everything they're doing, all right yeah, hallmark's hurt, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1Yes, the household. And then the article gets in the house with spending. Here's some fun graphics about statistics. Um, top three gifts are flowers, greeting cards and dining. Mom likes a MMOs with brunch. So my wife was asking me specifically about the dining and stuff, the greeting cards, and I was like, well, I mean, you can't do a walk-in to a restaurant on Mother's Day, they're all booked out. So, yeah, take your mom out some so nice dinner.
Speaker 1We have a thing, so we're actually hosting, host it, we're actually hosting mother's breakfast brunch is extremely economical to cook, so so when I told you at home, when I was talking about these stats with my wife this morning before I came over, because I picked this article ahead of time- I actually chose two articles, unlike you this time.
Speaker 2I actually got one off of this, so I'm going to what.
Speaker 1You can't do five.
Speaker 2No, but basically I'm going to add to this. Okay, I'll let you.
Speaker 1So she was talking about all this money being spent $259 a person on. Mother's Day. That's what it averages out to. We're hosting Mother's Day this year. Do it. We're doing it, do it big. We're doing it medium. I'm making a lasagna, okay, or Anna's making a lasagna, depending on who gets after it first. Salad, making some fun little skewer deals and we're making, like a parfait, strawberry parfait, dessert cups and martini glasses.
Speaker 2All right, very nice. Yeah, kind of cute.
Planning a Home-Cooked Celebration
Speaker 1Mostly for my mother. It's just about seeing us, because you know how I am about friendship maintenance Can you imagine family maintenance. Yeah, I don't want to see my family yeah, yeah, I mean, I love my family over there and that's fine. Well, your family is lovely, they're great. They're great over there. Yeah, I'd love to hear, love to hear about it once in a while but they're not crazy no, they're not crazy. No, I'm the craziest.
Speaker 1Oh, you're the craziest, yeah, oh so I'm the artist they're doing, the one that does all the silly shit, yeah so they're.
Speaker 2How do they feel about visiting you?
Speaker 1they want to come see me. Actually, it's kind of funny because me and my, my brother, is much better with you know, he's more family oriented than I am, uh, which is funny because I'm because I appear on the surface more outgoing, even though I'm the introvert and he's the extrovert, uh. But uh, he and I are the same about like maintaining bonds, like if we're close, we're gonna be close forever. I don't need to see you all the time, just don't need to. Uh, he's the same way. He was the best man at my wedding and I think I've seen him four times in the last five years. Yes, there you go, uh, but so, yes, she was like 259 dollars per person, you know, counting out mom, dad, you know, uh, sister-in-law, brother, me, amethyst, uh, the nephews. And then she gets the receipt that we bought we bought the stuff all in one ticket to from the supermarket and she's like, do we? We paid like, we paid like you know, 19 a person.
Speaker 1Yeah, what's going on? Then I talked to her about the dying and stuff okay yeah, and she was saying that a friend of hers from work has a brother or a sister, I can't remember which, which is the her friend of the man or woman and they were like yeah, we're. They're taking mom out individually, so yes, it can get. It can get egregious if you let it it can yeah and yeah. So is this spending unnecessary? Does mom really 100%? Does mom want $260 per family member spent on her?
Speaker 2No, the good ones don't.
Speaker 1Hey, you bad moms out there, listen to Syke. He's about to give a monologue.
Speaker 2Yes, yes, no, no. All right, let me put this on so I can keep track of the time that I'm using to educate the masses Completely alienate 54% of the American population. All right, no Go. Okay, so Mother's Day. Do you know who founded Mother's Day?
Speaker 1I don't Tell me, give me more.
Speaker 2Anna Jarvis. Anna Jarvis, back in 1905, after the death of her mother, decided to hey, let's recognize mothers.
Speaker 1Who's Anna Jarvis?
Speaker 2She is some woman who was associated with a Methodist church in Philadelphia. Okay, you have that. Okay, so from there, as this whole Mother's Day commercialization continued, she had a good run. She was born in 1864. Yeah, she objected. In fact, she was arrested protesting.
Speaker 2Protesting her own holiday Prot protesting the day that she attempted to inspire and to be about spending time acknowledging the mother, the woman that brought you life. Yes, and I agree with her stance. She was extreme in both cases. Nobody was recognizing mothers to the extent that they were ever. Oh, that's wrong, that's correct. She was an extremist and she was radical. Mother's Day would not have Hold on Pause.
Speaker 1Yeah, go ahead. This radical broad who in 1908, observed the first Mother's Day we're calling her a radical because she loved her mother.
Speaker 2I love you.
Speaker 1Mom, I love you yes.
Anna Jarvis: Founder of Mother's Day
Speaker 2I don't say it enough, we don't think about that now because, it's so common to us. But if you examine the definition of what it means to be radical, to do something that nobody else has ever done, if you are the outlier in your time and space and you are proposing something that nobody before you or at that time has ever tried, before.
Speaker 1I see You're saying that the first person to suggest that we dedicate a day to the woman who gave birth to us was a radical concept.
Speaker 2Well, I'm not saying she's the first, she's just the first to be given credit for it and whatever movement she started whatever movement she started at that time took off.
Speaker 1In. Grafton the church was in Gon, west virginia, home of the grafton monster and anna jarvis's mom so she started it.
Speaker 2She saw the direction it was going, she objected, she was arrested for protesting, and and now here we are, I. I think mother's Day is a day, yada, yada, about 100 years. That's great. I think it is a day to be recognized. I think it absolutely should be recognized, and I have a video to play to further hit this point home, because Mother's Day and Father's Day butt up against each other in months and there's something that relates to this. But anyway, yes, I think whatever you do for or with your mother should be personal, it should be heartfelt. And if I need to get in my car to go buy a $10 card that has words that I didn't write in it at a store that is profiting to the tune of billions of dollars where they can put a channel on my television, I think it's too much.
Speaker 1When I was a kid, I loved making the cards for your mom with dad. You know that kind of deal, so good yeah. So Anna Jarvis' life ended in 1948, having never married or had children of her own, and was buried beside her mother in Pennsylvania she's a she's a legend in a jarvis and many people do not even even know I didn't know who she was until you brought it up.
Speaker 1So, yes, I'm glad we're able to spend some time today talking about the or the, the non-commercialized origins of mother's day, and that it ties directly in the with the fact that I'm just going to make a lasagna and invite my mother to my house for a few hours.
Speaker 1Get this video here so this kind of ties directly into how so much money has been spent on Mother's Day and yes, mom, you deserve it, I love you, don't say it enough. But if I took you and me spent on mother's day and yes, mom, you deserve it, I love you, don't say enough. But but, uh, if I took you, if I took you and everybody out to like a lunch and bought you flowers and a brooch, and and the 10 of us cost an average of 260 a person would you be pissed at me? Would would I get the finger wag super hard? I think I would. I think I would. She would just be like, she would just be like eric michael. What is this?
Speaker 2seriously, oh, uh, I'm getting there, I get there. Uh, I'm stalling. Okay, so while I'm searching for this, do you think I mean this is related, but but is Father's Day the same thing?
Speaker 1Absolutely not.
Speaker 2Okay, so what's your opinion on the attention that Father's Day gets as opposed to Mother's Day?
Speaker 1It's not as marketable. We're talking about the commercialization of Mother's Day, and poor Anna Jarvis, you know, rest in peace. But Mother's Day took off. Fathers just aren't sensationalized in the same way. You get a Father's Day, and Father's Day for you is your kids wake up with mom and make pancakes and you come down oh what's this? I got pancakes, woo. But mom gets $260 per person on average.
Speaker 2Poor fathers.
Speaker 1But you get into the societal norms where the suffering and silence wah wah wah. You know what you do a great job, and the pancakes should be enough To make amazing pancakes.
Speaker 2No, the fucking kids are, and the pancakes?
Speaker 1should be enough. Make amazing pancakes. No the fucking kids are making the pancakes.
Speaker 2It's Father's.
Speaker 1Day.
Speaker 2Jesus, I can't trust them. Are they going to whip egg?
Speaker 1whites I can Dude. They're going to open a box of Bisquick and you're going to fucking be happy about it because it's Father's Day.
Speaker 2I don't own Bisquick. Oh, there it is. I don't own Bisquick.
Speaker 1I don't either. Kodiak, kodiak mix. I got that, I got that All right.
Speaker 2Take a look at this and raw reactions. You probably heard this.
Father's Day vs Mother's Day
Speaker 1My father passed away when I was three.
Speaker 2There was four of us kids within five years, so my mom had to raise four kids by herself.
Speaker 1My mom was a single mother, so she raised both of us completely by herself.
Speaker 2She's emotional, which is Is that, when you hit your drama button, get it ready. I'm sorry, I don't know how she raised three boys on her own with such grace.
Speaker 1I've definitely seen her try to juggle both mom, dad and you know everything else that she had to be for herself have you seen this? She did all of it.
Speaker 2And she did it all as though she was two people, but I know what's going on.
Speaker 1But she was tough. She was not a joke. Say our car broke down, oh well, that's the alternator. She was not a joke. Say our car broke down, oh well, that's the alternator.
Speaker 2She was like when you punch, she's like you put your knuckle out and you just go for it.
Speaker 1Mom does not know how to hit Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2Even like opposite of her toughness, it was something very fragile. You know Anything that needs help a person, a thing, an animal. She will find it and she will nurse it back to health.
Speaker 1This cat was raised by a mother Always very affectionate, very hugging and kissing, and all of that. It was always nothing but love.
Speaker 2She really is like the most amazing mother, but she was really an incredible father, like truly incredible. Oh, I hope you have a beautiful day and I love you from the bottom of my heart. That's it. Happy Father's Day, mom, and I'm thankful for everything you've done for me said happy Father's Day, mom, and I'm thankful for everything you've done for me. Happy Father's Day, mom.
Speaker 1Jesus Christ, give this fucking guy an Oscar.
Speaker 2Hi Mom.
Speaker 1Feliz día del padre, Hi, Mom. Happy Father's Day. Happy Father's Day, Mom. Happy Father's Day, Mom Hi.
Speaker 2Mom, happy Father's Day, mom. Oh Mom, happy Father's Day. I got some tissue. Sorry, hey Mom.
Speaker 1Happy fucking Mother's Day, mom. I love you On your day. So this is what we get canceled for. I'm sorry, dude. I understand the two sides of the whole Happy Father's Day mom argument, but I'm going to tell you right now it's unnecessary.
Speaker 2Agreed.
Speaker 1You get your Mother's Day and, yes, there are a lot of women out there who raise children by themselves and they have to be stronger and they have to be more resilient and they have to put in the extra effort and we won't talk about any of the other stuff.
Speaker 2Yeah, we don't need to. That's a whole separate conversation, but they do.
Speaker 1One of my best friends, she raised two daughters. She raised two daughters. You know the father is around but not necessarily there, and she had to be tough and soft and all these things that this very well-produced and overly emotional video are suggesting. But I'm not telling her happy Father's Day. She has her own day day. You're a tyrant. She gets 259 a person on average and dad gets fucking pancakes, which which mom has to go buy mix for because you don't carry bisquick actually get the protein, I can make pancakes from scratch.
Speaker 1Why did you turn my thing about spending too much money for no reason into? This I don't hate it.
What Mothers Really Want
Speaker 2But here we are. Yes, mother's Day overly commercialized. Yes, we spend too much money. No, I don't think the. Do mothers and women love, love gifts? Do they like to be acknowledged? Do they? Do they love the gift more than the acknowledgement? I don't. I don't think so. But if they come together and if there's genuine appreciation and if there's genuine positive reinforcements there, if they get to spend time, quality time, if there's stories, if they get to have all of their loved ones around them and embrace them on that day and there are gifts, if their family avoids them like the plague and they just send gift cards and gifts, or let's say they send something expensive, like a car gets dropped off in their driveway. Damn, dwayne johnson. What do most women want more?
Speaker 1from their children the love and acknowledgement I would say yes I don't, I'm not, I'm not a woman with children.
Speaker 2So I don't know that know. That's why I said what I said when I said good, moms don't? They're not fascinated with all of this commercialization and the glitter and the glamour? And oh yes, let's go to this. I need to go to this celebrity chef's restaurant and have the best seating and have the most expensive meal. And I need to go and need to shower me with jewelry and this is only a hallmark card, this is not custom, with a calligrapher and everything right, your, your extremes are that's pretty, pretty extreme it is you're gonna give me a custom gold leaf calligraphy no yeah, of course you would order that months in advance and have your celebrity calligrapher put together on only the finest parchment right, is that papyrus?
Speaker 1Dude, you're hella dumb. So yes, so yes, it's too much. Mother's Day is too much. My mother wants to spend time with her kids, so, like most parents, she spent her whole life raising snot-nosed, unappreciated brats and slowly molded them into good human beings so that when they were adults, they would go out into the world and do better than she did herself. That is parenting. That's what you want.
Speaker 1You know, I'm trying to create an environment that allows my children to be better or have more and do things that I couldn't do. And if she succeeded with that, great. If she didn, she didn't. You know, whatever the factors are what they are, but regardless of she wants to be proud of what her children have accomplished, and if she can't be proud of it, she just wants to be a part of her children's lives. She brought us into this world and she created, she built this environment. This is what she wants. She wants to. She wants the acknowledgement for that existence, and if I give her a diamond bracelet, it should feel irrelevant to the. You know my mother. If I did something like that, she'd be like what are you spending this kind of money on me?
Speaker 2for If that gesture was divorced from the sentiment, then, yeah, it would be meaningless at that point I'm going to spend time with my mother on Mother's Day.
Speaker 1because I'm going to spend time with my mother on Mother's Day, I'm going to tell her how things have been going in my life. I'm going to build up the fact that she did well and that I said I'm succeeding. That's going to make her strengthen the relationship that's going to make me that's, but she's going to be the happiest.
Speaker 2but I'm saying, if you spent all day with her doing all of that, that will be strength, that will bolster your relationship, Making her feel like she succeeded as a mother.
Speaker 1that's the true meaning of Mother's Day. I am going to do what I can to make sure she knows that she succeeded.
Speaker 2Your sacrifice was worthwhile. Now I know your story is not the same as everyone else's story. I can fathom that, okay. Now I know your story is not the same as everyone else's story.
Financial Responsibility and Mother's Day
Speaker 2Two men and I was a single mother and I was living with you know on food stamps and in section eight, housing, and so on and so forth, and I wasn't being cut any breaks. I might, I might fall into uh thinking on this day, I just want it all. I should be queen, I, I want the best. I don't see I. I somehow need to be repaid for the effort I've put forth I, I don't really see that.
Speaker 2I mean, I've known but that mindset exists, yes, but right, I put it out so much. I didn't. I didn't get enough back, and this is the time to repay. We need to balance the sheet.
Speaker 1I think that's social media talking.
Speaker 2Social media is immature. I think that mindset is immature.
Speaker 1I've known many women who are in the situation that you describe and I've never really gotten that from them. I think that the idea of acknowledging that your mother did her best, succeeded where she could and regardless of the outcome, was there. If that is the acknowledgement, then those concepts are universal, no matter what the overlaying things are.
Speaker 1What if your mother didn't do her best, and you knew it Well then you've got a situation where you know I'm sorry, I mean, you know, if you're over here like, yeah, my mom didn't even try, are you? I mean, mother's Day may feel like a Hallmark holiday. You might, okay, today's Mother's Day hey, Mom, here's some flowers and a card, let me take you to lunch and let's just go. But I'm talking about, like, the real sentiment, the Anna Jarvis is it Jarvis Jarvis? The Anna Jarvis sentiment of Mother's Day, and I think that that's going to be the largest percentage. Thank Iron man, jarvis, jarvis, Jarvis. No, I think, I mean, I don't know, you're going to have a real narrow niche percentage of bad parenting where your mom didn't try. So I wouldn't even consider that. You know, I think that our time is best spent.
Speaker 1I think our time is best spent talking about spending all this money versus showing mom that you appreciate who she is.
Speaker 2I, I would only spend that much money. One if you can afford to do it and two if the appreciation that you show your mother matches.
Speaker 1The best part is we're finally getting back to what this topic was going to be about, which is spending money if you can afford it.
Speaker 2But if you can't afford it, use Karna. Affirm Sezzle Afterpay.
Speaker 1I don't have enough. Come on, follow me. Yes, no, dude, seriously, don't spend all kinds of money you can't afford on your mom and then tell her.
Speaker 2Just take a loan against your car.
Speaker 1Pay it back later. And if, and and if your mother truly loves you, which most mothers do, she wouldn't appreciate it. She wouldn't. She wants you to be to do better than her, and the only way you're going to do that is by not being stupid.
Speaker 2By not being stupid. End of statement.
Speaker 1I got to drop. So, hey, thank you for joining us at the Conversation Podcast today.
Speaker 2Wow, we talked about some really this is a really eclectic blend of topics.
Speaker 1This series it it was yeah and almost none of them went the direction they're supposed to, which is kind of fun nor should it.
Speaker 2If it was that's conversation, though. Yeah, we had a conversation. Yeah, I don't think we solved anything, but we did. Yeah, we put a dent in that.
Speaker 1I like this bottle yeah, it's kind of fun. Yeah, right there, it's well produced, even at the bottom it's all made, made, made by machines, yeah made by machines living in the matrix. Yeah, um, no, we didn't solve anything today, but that's okay sometimes. Just pointing out what is right and what is wrong, solve it yourself, solve it yourself. Yes, I gave you all the answers that could be. Solve it yourself. Yes, we gave you all the answers that could be merch, and then hell of a dumb on the back.
Speaker 2Solve it yourself.
Speaker 1Hell of a dumb. I'm getting my own buttons.
Speaker 2It's so easy, you can do that. Oh, of course, yeah.
Speaker 1Tarasov, I'm shutting this down.
Speaker 2Next time. No, hi, hi. Oh man, I can't do this anymore. Quit Happy Father's Day, mom. Quit happy father's day, mom. Happy mother's day, dad. My dad would have something to say about that like of course he would what's wrong with you? Yeah, yeah, to say the least. Yeah, remember this right here, let me.
Speaker 1Yo mama do this.
