The Canberra Business Podcast
A podcast about all things Canberra Business.
The Canberra Business Podcast
Canberra's Tourism Vision for the Future
Discover how Canberra plans to become an even more enticing destination as we chat with Dr. David Marshall AM, Chair of the Canberra Region Tourism Leaders Forum. He makes a compelling case for how strategic tourism policy can transform the local economy, aiming to elevate the region's tourism earnings from $4 billion to a staggering $5-6 billion. As the city's national treasures and natural beauty draw throngs of visitors, Dr. Marshall underscores the critical role of tourism in bolstering Canberra's economy, especially against the backdrop of rising living costs.
Join us as we navigate the financial trials faced by the tourism sector, from soaring interest rates to everyday expenses like petrol, groceries, and rent. We explore the importance of international connectivity, touching on exciting prospects like potential international flights with Fiji Airways. Dr. Marshall illuminates the long-term vision for a new convention center, promising a boom in tourism and business by 2028, all while pondering what Canberra needs to compete on the global stage.
We bask in the festive charm of Canberra during the holiday season, discussing how the quieter ambiance offers unique opportunities for tourism growth. Dr. Marshall shares how collaboration with local universities and student interns can inject fresh perspectives into the industry, providing a win-win scenario for both businesses and aspiring professionals. Wrapping up, I offer a glimpse into my own journey from Melbourne to Canberra, offering insights for budding entrepreneurs eyeing the tourism sector.
Welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast brought to you by the Canberra Business Chamber with the support of our friends at the University of Canberra. I'm Greg Harford from the Business Chamber and I'm joined today by Dr David Marshall AM, who is the Chair of the Canberra Region Tourism Leaders Forum. David will be well known to many listeners and indeed is no stranger to a microphone, having had a bit of a background in broadcasting. But, david, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much, Greg.
Speaker 1:So, to begin, tell us a little bit about the Canberra Region Tourism Leaders Forum. What is it and what is it doing?
Speaker 2:It's been established for about six years. We were a task force within the Canberra Business Council and because industry is so big, we've moved out on our own. We have 24 people around the table who are really the experts and the leaders of the industry sectors we represent, including business, tourism generally, the Convention Centre, the National Capital Authority, sport and these are the people that actually make the decisions about what happens and where tourism goes. So the role for us is to develop policy for government, both federally and in the ACT. It's also to handle media inquiries, but also to help the industry when they come into a roadblock, if you like, with government or with legislation. So we serve on some of the ACT government's consultative groups and I sit on behalf of the business chamber here on the Australian Tourism Board, which is chaired by a guy called John Hart, and that's the biggest sector industry representation body in Australia.
Speaker 1:So it all sounds very serious, very important and very focused on big business. But who's getting involved? Is it just the big end of town or have you got a whole range of businesses?
Speaker 2:No, greg, it's a whole range of businesses. I mean there's a lot of small businesses in tourism right across Australia and many of them are fighting for their survival at the moment, I must admit. So I mean it's a very difficult time for us, but really tourism is everybody's business and the tourism dollar flows right through the community, so everybody benefits. And you'll find the importance of tourism highlighted when a particular area has a bushfire or a natural disaster of some sort, and the recovery process is always let's get tourists back into the market as soon as possible because they stimulate the economy.
Speaker 1:So how important is it to the ACT?
Speaker 2:It's very, very important to the ACT. We have around 20,000 people employed in tourism. It generates just under $4 billion a year and the target for that is around $5 to $6 billion over the next few years and I think that's very achievable and we have five and a half million people visiting us.
Speaker 1:Now, some of those five and a half million people will be visiting just to go to Parliament and things right. Are they really tourists?
Speaker 2:Well, a third of the visitors to Canberra are certainly business people, but they stay in accommodation, they eat at restaurants and they drink at bars and they drive here. Many of them do as well. So it's all about what a visitor does in stimulating the economy and supporting local business, and so they're a very important aspect of Canberra and the economy.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned a spend of around $4 billion a year in the tourism sector at the moment and a target of sort of five to six. Who's setting those targets?
Speaker 2:Well, the ACT government so Visit Canberra are the marketing arm of the ACT government. From a tourism point of view and an investment point of view, they do a great job. They've got a limited budget but what they do with that budget I think is very effective and their role is to stimulate tourism, to get people to come into Canberra, to choose Canberra as a preferred destination. But there's a lot of competition. Greg, my gosh, you're dealing with Queensland, victoria, new South Wales.
Speaker 1:I mean, these people have got massive budgets, so we do the best with what we've got and you mentioned other states and I guess there's international destinations competing with the ACT as well for that tourist or visitor dollar. There'll be some people listening to this who say, well, why would anyone come to Canberra for tourism? There's Floriade and there's the national institutions, but possibly not a lot else. How do you respond to that?
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting how appealing Canberra is for a short break, because people from Sydney and regional New South Wales make up 66% of the visitors to Canberra, and it's a drive market, plus the fact the institutions most of them are free, and so for a family coming to Canberra it's very economical, particularly if they stay with friends and relatives. And the other interesting thing, Greg, is that 40% of people that come here actually do that, and so they're staying in the suburbs, they're spending money right across Canberra going to clubs, really enjoying what Canberra has to offer. But it's not only the institutions which are the drawcard, but it's Stromlo Forest Park, for example, it's the Manchurian Tidbinbilla Nature Reserves. You know 70% of Canberra is protected environmentally, and so people come down here to walk, to cycle, to hike, and it's a very popular destination, particularly for those people who want to enjoy a wine occasionally as well, Greg.
Speaker 1:And there's some very good wines from around the region there is.
Speaker 2:Could you pass me that bottle now? Thanks, yeah, absolutely, there we go, david.
Speaker 1:What do you think are the biggest challenges facing the tourism sector?
Speaker 2:Well, at the moment, right across the country, it's cost of living and people are genuinely very cautious about what they spend, but it's almost like a two-speed economy. There are people who perhaps may be retired or without children at the moment and they have the money to invest, and so they will be spending a lot of money on holidays. But there's a major cross-section of the community who are struggling. And a classic case if you look at Canberra, I was talking to a restaurateur yesterday and he was saying that the average spend has dramatically increased and the number of people coming into the restaurant has declined. And he's a sole operator, got two outlets though in Canberra, and he's really struggling and people just haven't got the money. And so what they're doing and this is even at some of the five-star hotels and some of the great restaurants people are sharing a meal. They might order a couple of drinks rather than a bottle. They also, where they might have gone out once a week for dinner or for lunch, it might be once a month.
Speaker 1:So people are seriously cutting back and that's a great concern, not only for Canberrans, obviously but from across Australia, and a lot of that comes down to interest rates, right, because anyone with a mortgage is feeling squeezed because of the ongoing high nature of interest rates. Yeah, that's very, very true.
Speaker 2:So there's a whole lot of impacting on people. I mean petrol costs, groceries, general living costs, rents as well. So it's almost a perfect storm in some respects, which is very dangerous for the industry and because tourism is one of those situations where you might think let's go on a holiday and so bookings are now very, very late, whereas people might have booked months and months ahead. In a lot of cases now it'll be a spare-of-the-moment decision.
Speaker 1:And when people are out of town perhaps Sydney, melbourne, perhaps even up into Singapore or New Zealand they'll be looking at perhaps coming to Australia for a bit of a holiday or travelling around the nation to Australia for a bit of a holiday or travelling around the nation. One of the issues that people look at, of course, is how easy it is to get here. Do you think we need more international connectivity and do you think that there are issues about getting encouraging people to come to Canberra around the price of airfares?
Speaker 2:Now let me think about that, greg. That's a really good question and the interesting thing is, I mean, we're still trying to entice Singapore Airlines and Qatar Airlines back into the ACT, but the cost of airfares like Melbourne to Sydney, melbourne and Sydney out of Canberra is very expensive. You can get special deals on occasions. We need a faster train service between Sydney and Canberra, which has been talked about for years. Murray's coaches that run a regular service on the hour, I think it's from 4am, seven days a week. It's a fantastic service. A lot of people are doing it. I think it's about $70 or something like that, so it's very economical and in many occasions you have to book ahead because the coaches themselves are full. But you're quite right, a lot of people internationally will hire a vehicle in Sydney and they'll drive to Canberra. But connectivity is really important and there's so much competition. The products we have in Australia, like in Queensland and Northern Territory, are spectacular, so getting a share of it, greg, is an ongoing challenge, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Now the tourism sector obviously here in the ACT has a relatively high profile. You've led much of that. You have your own minister for tourism. Does that make a difference? Do you think? Does it give us more oomph when we're trying to get out and secure those extra flights from Singapore, for example?
Speaker 2:I've got to say the government and the Chief Minister's been the Tourism Minister for over 10 years. He's the longest-serving Tourism Minister in Australia and he has been very active along with the Canberra Airport and Visit Canberra, in continually going to China and going to Singapore and to New Zealand and lobbying, and this is the only way you succeed. And so now we have Fiji Airways coming into Canberra and that was from long negotiations and particularly assisted by Brendan Smith, who's the Commissioner for international engagement. So there's been a lot of people involved in these decisions, greg, and a lot of lobbying, and Fiji Airways is a classic case. People are now starting to pick up Fiji Airways in Los Angeles, san Francisco, vancouver and fly through Fiji into Canberra. And that was the whole deal about why Fiji Airways in Los Angeles, san Francisco, vancouver and fly through Fiji into Canberra. And that was the whole deal about why Fiji Airways was so important for the city, because it is a gateway to North America for us as well and it's working.
Speaker 1:Which is really good, and from what I've heard, there's more and more people catching those flights.
Speaker 2:Nice aircraft and a couple of days in Fiji.
Speaker 1:never goes astray, no sounds very good to me, although not as good as Canberra at one point.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely not.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about the Convention Centre. So the Tourism Leaders Forum and indeed the Business Chamber have been campaigning for quite a number of years around the need for an enhanced convention centre to support the tourism industry that we've got here. Where's that at, do you think?
Speaker 2:The convention centre now is supported by all three parties the Liberals, the Labour and the Greens in the ACT, so that's encouraging. There's already consultation going on about the design of the building and how it should be constructed, we're told, by the end of 2028, just prior to the next election. There should be a situation where it can go to market in early 2029. In early 2029, and hopefully within that next election period, the first sod will be turned. So that's good news for us, very good news.
Speaker 1:It is quite a long time away.
Speaker 2:It's still 10, you know, perhaps almost 10 years away. So the government, to their credit, are endeavouring to fast-track that if they can. But what they need is Commonwealth government support. And the Commonwealth should be contributing to a convention centre in the national capital, and for a number of reasons. Number one particularly it should be the most secure building in Australia and it should be able to host, and big enough to host, international forums. And I think that's one thing the Commonwealth government will be looking at and thinking it's very appropriate that we do that.
Speaker 1:Well, I think the recent inquiry the joint House and Senate inquiry into the status of Canberra as the nation's capital even came out and said that a new convention centre was needed right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and it must have been 10, 12 years ago. Greg, the Canberra Business Council at the time, prepared a document and 50 businesses and associations signed that, saying this is the number one priority for Canberra.
Speaker 1:And what's the economic impact of that? So we have a new convention centre. It's big and shiny. What does that mean for businesses here on the ground?
Speaker 2:It's extraordinary because not only do convention delegates come into the city and spend a lot of money in fact, they spend on average about $736 a day but conferences and events will drop millions and millions of dollars into the economy. So this is why every state in the Northern Territory have virtually new centres or expanded centres, and so what we need here is a convention facility, probably three to four times as big as we have at the moment, able to host at least three multiple conventions on a daily basis, and that's something where we haven't been able to do it and, as a result, we're missing out on hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars over many years, and that will be remedy when it opens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's all money that would otherwise be flying into local Canberra tourism businesses and the benefit is that, exactly right now, you think about those people that feed into a convention centre, apart from it providing employment for young people, a substantial number of young people, and a lot of those are students, or indeed older people, and older people too, greg. That's exactly right. But when you think about it, you know the convention centre needs food, it certainly needs refreshments, it needs event organisers to come in and to theme the building itself. It needs AV equipment. There's a whole array of businesses in Canberra which benefit as a result of a very viable and large convention facility, and we'll see the results when it opens.
Speaker 1:So really what you're saying, I think, david, is that actually many businesses that might not think of themselves as tourism businesses actually are going to benefit from that and probably are part of the tourism sector, whether that's hospitality, accommodation, retail, catering, event management, potentially some consultancy businesses, are all actually wrapped up into that tourism bucket.
Speaker 2:It's a very good summary, greg. I wish I'd thought of some of those. The interesting thing is there was a pilot strike many, many years ago, and suddenly people realised that they were in the tourism business or it was impacted. They were impacted by visitors to any city around the country, and so that was proof that people need to think about the fact that, although they might not think they're in the tourism industry, they benefit.
Speaker 1:So if you were talking to a small business starting up, wanting to get into the tourism space, perhaps wanting to start a little visitor attraction or a guided tour business, or indeed a little hospital business potentially, what advice would you be giving them?
Speaker 2:And we get a lot of comments and a lot of queries about this and we always say do your research, make sure that you've got the experience in the area that you're going to develop. Speak to people who've had that experience. Talk to Visit Canberra about the opportunities. But it's mainly don't dive into any business and it's not only tourism any business and you know this better than anybody else where you just don't open up and hope people are going to come. So it's challenging, particularly because tourism can again the the return on tourism can fluctuate depending on the economies we've talked about. So you've got to be a little bit cautious about it. But new businesses are opening all the time. We've had two or three very, very good restaurants just open very recently in Canberra, and so they've obviously done their due diligence and feel it's well worthwhile. I've spoken to them all and they're saying they're doing pretty well.
Speaker 1:And that's good to hear because obviously there's a lot of pressure on hospitality at the moment and a number of other businesses in New York which have exited Totally. So, david, let's talk a little bit about you. It's not all about New York, no, but it really is. What's your background, david, and how did you come to be involved in the tourism sector here in Canberra?
Speaker 2:Well, I come from Melbourne and when I finished matriculation at the McKinnon High School in Melbourne, I went to radio school, which was run by 3AW, and I always wanted to be a radio announcer. So I had two choices. I had sent out audition tapes and I had an offer from AHA, alice Springs or 5RM in the Riverland of South Australia. So it was a either a desert or a wine district that I could start my career in. And I did choose the wine district in the Riverland of South Australia, which was fantastic. And then I moved to Port Augusta and spent some time there as assistant general manager, came back to 5RM as manager. In between time I'd worked on air not only at 5RM but also at 3BO in Bendigo, the station renowned for telling John Laws all those years ago that he would never make it Brilliant.
Speaker 1:It's a great story.
Speaker 2:It's a great story. And from there I started running radio stations, running radio networks, and I came to Canberra to run FM 104.7 and 2CA. And that was way back in the late 80s when for the first time, canberra became an aggregated market, which means that an operator could own two radio stations under the one roof first time in Australia. So I came here to run those two stations and I spent six years doing that Very, very enjoyable. And then I left there and became the tourism commissioner after the government said there's a position here we'd like you to consider, because my experience in tourism started basically when I was on air at 5RM and I was very actively promoting tourism in that area and one of my great privileges was to be in partnership with a couple of other guys who built the Big Orange in Bury.
Speaker 2:Now if anyone's driven through the Riverland they'll see this big orange, which turned out to be a big lemon, but it was still at the time very popular. It's been closed for some time now but I believe someone's going to look at reopening it. But when I came to Canberra, someone's going to look at reopening it. But when I came to Canberra, for example, I was on the Convention Bureau board straight away and then through my time as the commissioner the tourism commissioner in the ACT I was on 16 different boards, so the tourism sector has obviously evolved quite a lot over that sort of time.
Speaker 1:What are the big changes that you've seen in Canberra over the last 20, 30 years in terms of the tourism?
Speaker 2:environment. Yeah, look, it's been very, very substantial and you know we've got some excellent events here. It's the development of the national institutions, I think, and we realise the importance of them as a drawcard, and these institutions are world class. I mean, they really are sensational. We're very, very fortunate and of course, our nature-based tourism is wonderful, as well as all the wineries, but they've developed each in their own way to be major drawcards. But the challenge that Canberra has we're still the eighth most popular destination out of Sydney, Because people will go to the Hunter Valley, then they go to the north coast and the south coast of New South Wales. I'll go to Melbourne, they might go to Brisbane as well, and so this is where the competition comes in and the importance of us remaining very active in that marketing space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you think Canberra is seen as an attractive tourist destination?
Speaker 2:For people to come here absolutely. And a lot of international visitors people are saying you know, we love going to a national capital, particularly, say, the Chinese, for example, and the Koreans, I mean, they like going and taking a photograph outside their embassy and things like that but it's very appealing. Australia has just over 10 million visitors a year international visitors a year and we receive about 270,000 of those. So we're a very small player in that regard, but we work closely with the other states in the Northern Territory as well.
Speaker 1:But we work closely with the other states in the Northern Territory as well, so we've got room for growth. What are the big things that we can do to realise that growth? Convention centres one.
Speaker 2:More hotels. We certainly need more five-star hotels and we need, you know, three-star hotels as well. As you know like through sitting weeks and so forth, it's sometimes very hard to get a room. But we need those hotels who are part of big chains, because those chains do extensive marketing and that's where, if you're a member of IHG or ACOR or whatever the Hyatt, which is excellent here they're all promoting themselves and so people stick to those chains in many cases when they're travelling. So there's a lot to think about.
Speaker 2:We have to grow our events and we need far more money to invest in Floriade. Floriade is at a very mature stage. It needs a permanent site or a number of sites, and so they're the sort of things that we're working on in lobbying the government. The government have got a limited amount of money and I mean we fully appreciate that. But events are big draw cards, greg, and if you have a good event, people will travel from Sydney and we've seen that with our National Gallery of Australia and National Museum exhibitions and so forth. They're big draw cards and very successful Excellent.
Speaker 1:Now, obviously we're coming up, as we're recording this up, to the festive season. It's not too far away till Christmas. What are your tourism plans over the break?
Speaker 2:Well, you know what I do. We go to Sydney for two or three days, but I make it my business to visit all the national attractions and to eat and dine wherever we possibly can go out and have coffee, and I'd urge all Caberans to do that. You know the institutions. They need support, and the restaurants and the cafes. Do also, and go and buy some souvenirs, do whatever you possibly can, because one thing that we hear often and people have said to me I haven't been to the war memorial for 10 years or you know, and I say you've got to get out more.
Speaker 2:And so Canberrans can be very supportive and when you have your friends and relatives coming to stay, please take them around and go to some of the attractions, like the National Zoo, like it's one of the it's a great zoo, one of the attractions. Like the National Zoo, like it's a great zoo, one of the best in I reckon, one of the best in the world and Jamala Lodge. If you want to shout yourself a bit of a treat, have a staycation and stay there. It's a remarkable attraction and I can say it's world class. But we have other attractions and other hotels like that too. So enjoy yourself in Canberra. Sometimes it's quiet in Canberra, but a lot of people now aren't necessarily going away over the holiday period.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I love Canberra over the holiday period. It's a little bit quieter and there is as you say, there's huge amounts to do. There is indeed Excellent. Well, dr David Marshall, thank you so much for joining me on the Canberra Business Podcast.
Speaker 2:It's been great having you great, learning a little bit more about tourism.
Speaker 1:I've got a lot more to say. Greg, we have unfortunately only got a limited time, but it has been great having you here. I really appreciate you coming in and having a chat. This has been the Canberra Business Podcast, presented by the Canberra Business Chamber in association with the University of Canberra, now by the Canberra Business Chamber in association with the University of Canberra. Now, if you are a tourism business, or indeed any other business, you can benefit from fresh ideas and perspectives by potentially engaging a student intern from UC. So, david, if you need some support for the forum, it's a good idea just to reach out to the university. You can email careers at canberraeduau to find out more. Thank you very much.