The Canberra Business Podcast
A podcast about all things Canberra Business.
The Canberra Business Podcast
Tips to Success in the NDIS Sector with AbilitySeer
Tim O'Hare and Roshan Dhital from AbilitySeer, share tips to success in the NDIS sector on the Canberra Business Podcast. Gain insider knowledge on navigating the NDIS landscape, from humble beginnings in 2017 to building a thriving team of nearly 100 professionals. Discover the essential role a passionate team plays in providing human-centered services and how AbilitySeer has positioned itself as a leading NDIS service provider by tackling recruitment challenges and offering a wide array of services such as support coordination, community access, and allied health services.
Our guests dive into the intricate world of NDIS funding and regulations, exposing the financial constraints brought on by fixed pricing structures and the impact of regulatory challenges like payroll taxes. Learn how technology becomes a game-changer for service providers, enhancing productivity and reducing administrative burdens in this competitive arena. Tim and Roshan also provide insights into the strategic marketing approaches necessary to thrive, emphasizing the importance of choice and control for individuals with disabilities. This episode is a must-listen for anyone keen on understanding the complexities of the NDIS framework and the innovative strategies employed by AbilitySeer to maintain quality support.
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast brought to you by the Canberra Business Chamber with the support of the University of Canberra. I'm Greg Harford from the Business Chamber and I'm joined today to talk business and the NDIS with AbilitySeer. I'm joined by Tim O'Hare, the Managing Director, and Roshan Dital, the Operations Manager. Gentlemen, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Greg, great to be here. Tim, let's start with you. So, abilityseer, you're an NDIS provider, but what services do you offer?
Speaker 2:Well, greg, we specialise in a support, a capacity-building support, called support coordination, which is essentially a case management type of support for people who are eligible to access the NDIS, to assist them to connect to different services, to understand their NDIS plans and budgets, to monitor their expenditure, to arrange some behind thethe-scenes sort of administrative stuff, including service agreements, and then preparation for NDIS planning meetings as well. That's our primary focus, but we have expanded our services and we're now doing community access, domestic assistance, transport, meal preparation, short-term accommodation and respite, as well as supported accommodation, and most recently we've just expanded into providing allied health services. So we're also doing telehealth, occupational therapy assessments too.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it sounds like quite a broad range of services that you're providing, rishan. How big's the team? How many of you are beavering away in the business?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so in the recent years we've grown quite exponentially. So the team is about like 100 in 100, close to 100 size and we've got an admin team team which is um in office in watson, um. So we got about like 10 11 um admin team and we got about 90 support workers on field uh, with team leaders and specialized um support staff who specialize in various area of the client support.
Speaker 1:So it's getting bigger, it's growing and it's good growing sector and good, really good sector to be in at this time and how easy are you finding to employ people if you've got a good pool of talent available, or are you struggling, like many other businesses, to fill roles?
Speaker 3:so with recruitment, because ndis is a specialized area. So when things go into this specialized category it obviously the the the choice you have with the pool of workers are limited and out of that limited um pool we and out of that limited pool we have to again go through this various process of getting them in and even though the market is quite competitive, we managed to maintain a good pool of support workers and admin team. The challenges are brought in by a lot of macroeconomic factors such as, let's say, migration or education pathways or colleges and institutes. So there are a few things which we are not able to control. But for the things which we are able to control, we've got a good grip of that to maintain our labour force.
Speaker 1:Tim, where did the inspiration to start the business come from, and how long have you been going?
Speaker 2:Well, greg, just a bit of background. I initially started in the sector around 20 years ago doing direct support work, and while I was doing that, I went back to study as a mature age student and studied economics and law, and then, after graduating, I was working in a range of different legal roles and then moved into doing disability advocacy, after realising pretty quickly that I was not really cut out for the corporate world, and so I was really glad to get back into the community sector and do disability advocacy with ADECAS for a number of years. Towards the end of my time at ADECAS, I was in a position where I was just appealing NDIS decisions on behalf of NDIS participants in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, and then after that, I started the business just in my lounge room at the time in about 2017. And since then, as Rashaan was saying, we've expanded and have a team of around 100 people now.
Speaker 1:So that's huge growth. You must be really proud of that achievement. Over what seven, eight years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I am Greg. I think that it's been a kind of a combination of hard work but also good fortune. I think that we have had a lot of luck too along the way and a lot of people who have helped me out in assisting the business to grow and develop. But it is an exciting time to be in the industry and I'm really proud of the growth that we've had, but also the way in which Roshan and I both have worked together to make sure that our policies and procedures, our governance and that sort of back-end type of parts of the business have been able to keep up with the growth so that we can always offer a really high-quality service.
Speaker 1:So what makes AbilitySeers business unique?
Speaker 2:What makes AbilitySeers business unique? Well, greg, we've got a really, really passionate team of people that work with our participants, and what we provide is a human service, and so it's really, really important to get the right hire, the right team members, based on their beliefs and their passion and their vision, because it is a job which is a human service and it's different to other industries. It's not like, for example, making a pizza or something like that, where, you know, in other industries it might be possible to, for example, simply purchase a new pizza oven, for instance, and then the new oven will allow the business to produce more pizzas, but in our industry, it's more about supporting people at a really human level and so being able to empathise with people, being compassionate, being really professional that these are the sorts of things that are really, really important in this space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, roshan, the NDIS is a monster industry. There's vast numbers of providers out there and demand is vast and I think we've seen significant growth in demand for NDIA services over the last few years. But how do you compare to others in the market and how big are you relative to others?
Speaker 3:Right, Greg. So this is just like a hypothetical categorisation, but there are a lot of big providers who are like national providers, who operate in a lot of state and within ACT. There are also bigger providers who have been operating since the start of NDIS. So we are about getting to the size of the top provider within the ACT and regional New South Wales. So I think over a few years we would be one of the biggest ones in the ACT. That's what things are looking like and we are pretty planned up and geared up for that growth as well.
Speaker 1:Obviously, a lot of the work you do is around supporting people with disability and helping them live life to the fullest, but are you employing people with disabilities as well in your workforce?
Speaker 3:yes, yes. So we have some team members who have disabilities and they are working along helping another clients who, and with like, we get the precious lived experience. That's what is very, very important, so that they look at things from a very, very empathetic way, and it's been going great.
Speaker 2:And that's something that is really important to us to make sure that we involve people with disabilities in the way our business operates, so that we can be sure, or that we can know, that as our business grows, it's growing in the way that our staff and also our clients want it to grow.
Speaker 1:So I mean, one of the programs that we run here at the Business Chamber, of course, is around supporting people with disabilities into the workforce and encouraging sort of the building of employer capacity. Do you think that there's an opportunity, tim, to do more in that space? What do employers need to know if they're thinking about who they might recruit and whether they should be employing people with disability?
Speaker 2:Well, greg, from my understanding of it, people with disabilities can often make extremely reliable employees. I think that people with disabilities who are successful in obtaining employment, take the least amount of time off, are the most reliable and are often the most hardworking. It's just sometimes overcoming that perception that there might be changes that need to be made or sort of adjustments that might need to be made, sort of to the physical environment or to the sort of sensory environment. But there are really great benefits there for employers that are willing to um to, to bend their policies to include people from different backgrounds, to have a more diverse workforce.
Speaker 1:Yeah and it's working for you, um, in terms of kind of creating that extra value, I guess from the empathy that you talk about and and delivering that value back to your clients.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, greg, and we always really go to great lengths to get feedback from our clients about what it is that we're doing well or what areas there are for improvement for us, because no one's perfect and there's always things that different services can do to improve and constantly get better, and getting that sort of feedback is really, really valuable.
Speaker 1:So how are you funded? Your clients aren't paying the bills. Right, You're funded out of the NDIS through government.
Speaker 2:That's right, greg. So if a person with a disability meets the NDIS eligibility criteria, they'll have a planning meeting with the NDIS, and that a planner or a NDIS local area coordinator will usually sit down with that person sometimes in person, but more often via teams or Zoom and have a discussion with them about what's going on in their life and what their goals are and what sort of assistance they might need in their particular unique circumstances, which might include support for things around the house or out in the community or therapeutic supports. Other participants might need assistance with various items of assistive technology or home modifications and that sort of thing, and then that participant who receives the NDIS plan can then decide which providers they would like to engage with.
Speaker 1:Okay, so really you're in competition with others directly targeted at a consumer who has the disability.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, greg, and it is an increasingly competitive space. There are a lot of new services popping up all the time. Keeping track of everyone in the industry can really be challenging at times, but it's become a very dynamic industry, very sort of responsive and, I think, a very exciting time to be in the industry absolutely, and having the participants have the choice and control over what sort of services they engage with is a really great driver, sort of a market force for quality and the resources that clients value get engaged and those that aren't at that level aren't able to continue to provide the support.
Speaker 1:So how do you go about marketing your services? Are you marketing direct to consumers?
Speaker 3:Yes. So my take on marketing is marketing within the NDIS is not a very straight black and white way or process, because one of the things that makes it very tricky is there are multiple stakeholders involved in a decision making within the support choices. So, even though you put in a lot of effort to, you know, influence or, like you know, acquire a client through your marketing effort, there will be a number of other stakeholders which will be then involved in that final decision making process. So it's it's. It's a little bit um tricky but um we will still um continue a lot of marketing effort. We love radio and we've been doing radio and it's working really great. We're very active on socials. We also like to print print media. We sponsor not-for-profit events. So recently we sponsored Children's Christmas Party, which is organized every year, which is one of the greatest um event that we can be part of. Um exhibitions, um yeah, so a lot of like um different approaches, but again, it's it's a little bit not very clear in like in other industry yeah, interesting.
Speaker 1:Um. So what are the other challenges, roshan, in managing and leading the business forward?
Speaker 3:So one of the main issue, or let's say, a concern, is the most crucial factor that drives business is not in your control. So decision regarding pricing is controlled by the NDIS, which is, I think, is amazing. But the prices that have been set for the providers it's not adequate enough to meet the cost of doing business. So that is where the challenge is. So we operate under SAST Awards, which is one of the most expensive awards in Australia, and the SAST Awards and NDIS Prize Guide are not really they don't like each other, I must say in a really comical way, but every time the SAST Awards goes up by a certain percentage, the NDIS Prize Guide haven't been able to keep up with that prize is. The NDIS price guide haven't been able to keep up with that price. And also the NDIS price guide also do not take consideration of factors such as payroll tax, let's say, you know loan service leave.
Speaker 3:So a lot of those hidden costs of doing business really impacts the day-to-day operations and the finances, and every time I meet some senior sector leader or like people from the government, I always try to convey this message that this is something that need to look after because we want to look after our people well, and it's. It's that, but the business has to also operate in a viable way, so so any changes to that it's going to help all the businesses, not only us. And efforts by the state government or the federal government or within the NDIS in making things easier for the NDIS providers, such as investing more in aised training platform or something similar, that could also reduce the cost of doing business by a lot.
Speaker 1:So I have to say I mean, that sounds to my business mind like a bit of a nightmare. Your funder is not the customer, so you've got a third party paying for a service and they're paying a fixed amount that's not keeping pace with the cost of delivering the services. So how are you juggling things internally? Are you becoming more productive? Are you simply taking a hit on margin? How's that playing out to keep you sustainable?
Speaker 3:So I think one area we've really really realised is investment in technological advancements or new IT systems or anything that will reduce the admin overhead. It's really going to help to keep up or like balance that additional cost. So we've been really really doing good in that area and always trying to look out for new systems and processes or procedures which will help to reduce the admin overhead and then give that cut and spread that across the team so that they're looked after well and also maintain the business viably.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and have you gone down the AI route yet?
Speaker 3:We are exploring, but I think that one challenge is a lot of systems software or like thing also haven't been able to catch up with the changes within the NDIs and the SaaS towards. So there are systems, but till date there is not a 100% perfect system that I think exists to cater to the providers who provide service in this complex and diverse area. So if something comes up which can really help with that, that would be really appreciated.
Speaker 1:Tim, what about some of the local regulatory issues? You must be paying portable long service leave levies. Are you paying payroll tax as well, and what's the impact of those costs on your business?
Speaker 2:Yes, greg, they are very significant regulatory costs that do affect the business and the business's bottom line. We are registered with the in the process now of registering with the ACT Portable Long Service Leave Scheme in the ACT. We do pay payroll tax in the ACT and New South Wales. The payroll tax rate in the ACT is quite a bit significantly higher than in New South Wales, so that is something that also adds to the complexity of the equation that we're working in in this space.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, and what are those higher costs? Excuse me, what do those higher costs mean, though, for the business? You're just effectively having to absorb more cost into your base.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, greg, and that's sort of against the background or in the context of what Rashaan was just explaining. Just explaining about having this fixed price system with the NDIS, but that pricing system not keeping pace with the Shads Award increases. Alongside as well, really really high administrative costs which aren't reflected in the price guide, and the costs of registration, insurance costs, all of those sorts of things too.
Speaker 1:So is that ultimately a sustainable business model? Well, for the NDIS rather than you, in particular.
Speaker 2:I think that it seems as though the NDIS have taken on board, to some extent, I think, some feedback from the industry, and what we've heard but it's only been in quite a general, vague sense thus far is that there is going to be a new pricing system that is going to emerge during 2025.
Speaker 2:What that will look like or what that will involve, we don't yet know, but in terms of what we're doing, just in terms of our day-to-day operations, we are doing the things that Roshan was just mentioning in terms of becoming more productive, becoming more efficient in the way that we do things, reducing our or doing our admin smarter and reducing the amount of time that we need to the amount of resources that we need to dedicate to those sorts of tasks, things like the way that we roster our staff we have to be very careful around being on top of staff working overtime that there are these new split shift allowances under the Shads Award. There's one split shift allowance at one rate, a second split shift allowance at a second rate, trying to minimise the instances in which those are occurring for us so that we can continue to be sustainable, and we've succeeded in doing that so far.
Speaker 1:So there's other changes happening, I understand, at the NDIS. What's the likely impact of those on your business?
Speaker 2:Well, greg, yep, there have been some very significant legislative changes that have been introduced.
Speaker 2:Some were introduced just in late September and then others in very early October.
Speaker 2:Changes involved was the NDIS producing a list of NDIS supports and non-NDIS supports to try to clarify the sorts of supports that can and can't be accessed by NDIS participants through their plan, and so getting on top of those changes has been quite a task for us and has certainly created a degree of anxiety amongst a lot of our clients in terms of whether or not the sorts of supports that they had been able to access in the past were still going to be able to be accessed with the new rules.
Speaker 2:Whether or not accessing those supports would result in them accumulating or accruing a debt that had to be repaid to the NDIS. So the NDIS have been quite, I think, tried to take a fairly reassuring sort of approach to the sector and let people know that what they're doing is taking a sort of an educative approach at the moment, so that if there are instances in which participants are accessing supports that aren't in line with the new requirements, that they will try to educate the participant or educate the provider, rather than issue debts. But it is something that is causing some consternation in the industry and some anxiety amongst our participants that we work with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I wish you luck in resolving that Excuse me. I wish you luck in resolving that and getting your clients across into the new arrangements. I guess Rashad just to close this off. 2025 is here. What are you hoping for?
Speaker 3:so it's. It's a bit tricky, greg, um the recent turn of events within the? A city. We've seen a lot of big legacy providers um close the door for ndis supports and and the news are coming out that um few of the providers are in like massive debt and may not be able to continue. So the industry the challenge is it's very like increasing day by day. So what we want to do is take a proactive measure and have a really, really good business plan in place and watch out for all of the things um that could happen and prepare for that. And then um we I think, um we're massively driven by value, so I think that is what has helped us to constantly grow. We always stick to our grounds, and then the core thing is our clients needs to be supported supported well and really in an empathetic manner. So we try to stick to our very, very basic values and ground rules and keep growing. So that's what 2025 looks like.
Speaker 1:In terms of anything to add. I mean, if you could wave a magic wand and change the world, what would you hope to see this year?
Speaker 2:Well, greg, I think that the industry does have a lot of challenges, but there's also a lot of really positive things that are going on in the industry. A lot of our clients have really, really excellent experiences with the NDIS and with other service providers, and we really enjoy working collaboratively alongside other sectors and other providers in the industry. I guess around what the new pricing system might look like and for there to be some more of a correlation between the increase in the price guide with reference to what employers pay under the employment awards, I think that that would be definitely high on the list for sure, yeah.
Speaker 1:Excellent. Well, we wish you luck over the next 12 months and I hope the year goes well for you both. Roshan Dital and Tim O'Hare, thank you very much for joining me on the Canberra Business Podcast. It's been really interesting to hear about AbilitySeer and the work you do for NDIS providers, so thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Greg. Thanks very much for having us. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Now. This has been the Canberra Business Podcast presented by the Canberra Business Chamber in association with the University of Canberra, and, as we are moving into the new year, your business can benefit from fresh ideas and perspectives by engaging a student intern. So if you do want to know more, just email careers at canberraeduau and you can learn more. This is the Canberra Business Podcast. I'm Greg Halford. Thanks very much.