.png)
The Canberra Business Podcast
A podcast about all things Canberra Business.
The Canberra Business Podcast
March Forward: Leading Women Share their Path to Success
In this International Women's Day special episode, guest host Helen Leayr speaks with three inspiring Canberra businesswomen about their journeys, challenges, and visions for the future of gender equality in business.
- Raffy Sgroi shares how she transformed a traditional automotive business by creating a culture that includes women and focuses on customer communication
- Sarah C. Bailey discusses how perseverance through countless small moments of challenge helped her build resilience and confidence to speak up
- Nazia Ahmed explains how her biggest hurdle in founding Social Outcomes Lab as the first entrepreneur in her family was overcoming self-doubt
All panelists emphasise on the importance of encouraging young people to use their voices and bring fresh perspectives and discussed practical steps businesses can take to advance gender equality, including intentionally creating diverse teams and addressing pay gaps. They advocated for embracing and learning from failure rather than fearing it and highlighted the importance of women finding their "tribe" of supporters, mentors, and sponsors to help overcome challenges
Follow the Canberra Business Chamber on your favorite podcast platform to stay up to date with the latest editions of Canberra Business Podcast.
This episode is supported by CareSuper.
Good morning, Hi. I'm Helen Lair, Managing Director of Communication Link, and I'm your special guest host of this International Women's Day edition of the Canberra Business Podcast from the home of the Canberra Business Chamber. Greg Harford, CEO of the Canberra Business Chamber and your usual podcast host, has vacated the studio and left us with his trusty microphone. We'll see how we go. In the week of International Women's Day, there's been a bevy of events that celebrate the success of women and remind us of the work still to be done. We have invited three truly inspiring Canberra businesswomen to join us and share their stories. I'm so looking forward to spending some time with them, learning a little bit about their business journey, sharing our experiences and perhaps being inspired to do something different. So I'm going to introduce each of them, one after the other. Raffi Scroi, diversity and inclusion advocate, built on the foundations of an outstanding, successful career that includes co-founding a multi-million dollar automotive service business car mechanical services, running her own consultancy business for the past 13 years. Sage Advice Welcome, Raffi. Thanks for coming Lovely to be here.
Speaker 1:And secondly, we have Sarah Bailey, CFO and Director at Penten, a world-leading secure mobility applied AI and tactical communication security solution providers. Wow, Truly professional. An advisory board member at the University of Canberra, an esteemed career in professional and business consulting, including time at Ernst Young Welcome.
Speaker 3:Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1:And finally, Nazia Ahmed is an economist and is the CEO and founder of the Social Outcomes Lab, which has been running for almost 10 years, providing improved life outcomes for vulnerable people through the application of economics, analytics and action planning. Follows a professional career with PwC and New South Wales government. Welcome, Nazia.
Speaker 4:Hi, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's wonderful. What a great bunch of women. So UN Women Australia's theme for International Women's Day 2025 is March Forward, commemorating 30 years since the UN's Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action for Achieving Gender Equality 30 years. I think most of us were in the early stages of our business career 30 years ago. The CEO of UN Women Australia stated our 2025 events will serve as a powerful platform to amplify voices, share insights and mobilise action. Simone Clark said we invite all Australians to join us in this crucial conversation and march forward towards a more equitable world. So here we are, a conversation in Canberra about businesswomen Perfect.
Speaker 1:So I thought I'd start with a question to all of our panel members as successful businesswomen, I'm sure you've had to march through, as our theme suggests, some challenges along the way. Tell us a little bit about your business journey and a time or pivotal moment when you feel like you took a big step forward. What barrier did you overcome? What did you march through, raffy?
Speaker 2:let's start with you uh well, I love that march through, so definitely was a big march. Um, as we know, when you're thinking about automotive business, it's always like about men's fixing cars, but I'm always saying that it's much more about that. So, for me, it was only to create that different culture where, you know, we're including women into the equation and so my role is completely different from fixing cars, but it's a very important role. So it was about communicating with customers, creating that loyalty base and pursue a purpose which is, for us, was actually including more female into the industry and creating that sort of skill and inclusion program. So I think we succeeded in that.
Speaker 2:Obviously, as many things much work to be done still, but yeah, we're pretty pleased with the results.
Speaker 1:Marching through right on the ground, bringing women into a non-traditional background, into a skill that perhaps we haven't thought of before. Yeah, wonderful Rafi Sarah. What about you? Background into a, into a skill that perhaps we haven't thought of before.
Speaker 3:yeah, wonderful raffy sarah, what about you?
Speaker 3:I'd love to say that there was one particular moment or pivotal time where I felt like I took a great big step forward. But to be honest with you, um, I think there's been a whole range of just moments that have required perseverance and resiliency over that entire 30 years. So 30 years ago was actually in, obviously 1995, and I finished school back then. I have a 30 year reunion coming up and at the time I left school thinking I can go and do and be anything I want, and at a whole range of moments over the last 30 years, it's just not as straightforward as that, particularly being a woman, and there's a range of different circumstances where you're not either invited into the room or someone has a different perspective around what they expect you to want or desire in the context of career and life, life, and so for me, I would say that my big step forward was actually a combination of many, many little moments where I just didn't give up and I just didn't accept the way things or the way other people wanted things.
Speaker 1:For me, perseverance with a capital P, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Nazia, what about your story? How did you get where you are?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think I always knew that I wanted to do my own thing and I wanted to make a difference in the world in some way or shape.
Speaker 4:And I think starting the Social Outcomes Lab was a really big deal for me, because I come from a family of professionals and so there's no one else who's run a business in my family and so, you know, having a senior government position, you know that kind of stability, and then starting Solab it's called Solab for short it was a really big deal and I think you know, I mean there are so many barriers, like, firstly, being a woman and then various other intersectionalities of culture, religion and whatever else.
Speaker 4:But I think you know the biggest barrier sometimes is just within myself. And so I think, getting into that mindset of no, I can be successful and I'm just willing to give it a go, and I think that's how I started. So I'm not expecting it to be, you know, running for however long or whatever, but just that I'm going to give it a go. It's something I really Solab. Not expecting it to be, you know, running for however long or whatever, but just that I'm going to give it a go. It's something I really want to do it's something I'm really passionate about and just keep going over. You know every hurdle.
Speaker 1:Yes, so much of that. I mean, the theme across all of those three stories is about that inner drive. Yeah, the inner drive to be the first to establish a business in your family, to take all those perseverance moments and progress each one towards an outcome. And then for you, rafi, you've had to create a whole culture. You've stepped into a place that you probably thought you were going to just be managing the books yeah, that's often what happens in a family business, isn't it? And then you've gone. No, we can be something so great. How did you get that internal drive to do that, rafi? What did you pull on to make that happen?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm always saying that you know you need a great team behind. You can just, like you know, think of the big change, or you can think about including more female in the industry. But I've got to give like a big you know merit to my husband as well. That has a man been in the industry for 45 years now. He actually embraced that change, he trusted my vision and he actually support that. So, and I think when you're creating that big sort of you know trust in your team is actually make things come a little bit easier. And I agree with Sarah, it's all about that imposter syndrome. Sometime, you know, you need to just put in your big pants on and say, like you know what I deserve to be here and I actually have something to give that he needs to be heard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Was there somebody, Nazia, who particularly gave you that strength to go? Rafi talked about her husband, but is there somebody who really pushed you out of the nest?
Speaker 4:You know what? I have to give a lot of credit to my ex-bosses one at New South Wales Government and previously at PwC as well, and I think they just believed in me so much. For example, at PwC, I got to do the most incredible projects that were way beyond my grade for example, with this you know this immense support. And then also at New South Wales government, my ex-boss she was such a pioneer in the space and she was, you know, she always offered so much support and encouragement. So I think people like that across my journey kind of really helped me. And then when I started, whenever I needed some help when even, you know, 10 years on, I called my ex-boss at PwC when I was having like a challenge with a client, how do I, how do I overcome this? So you know it's. I think the mentors have been really, really wonderful.
Speaker 1:It's such an important thing having mentors and people you can call on, but it also requires a bit of inner gumph. I reckon I've been in my business for almost 30 years, so just not not much different to the time we've just been talking about, and I think I look back. There's a few items of people who have stepped in and made a difference, but I'm a bit like you, sarah. That perseverance then. Oh well, I'm just going to give it a go. What do you think? Sometimes some of that is about not being afraid to fail. Was that? Did that impact you, sarah?
Speaker 3:A little bit. I think I'm finding I'm not afraid to raise my voice and I don't know if that comes with age and experience, but I'm finding increasingly so. I just will point out the things that, honestly, are just either not acceptable or heading in a direction, that are that could become unacceptable. I think I've probably always done that, to be honest. I'm sure my parents would say I did that quite a lot as a child. But even through the early stages of my career there are definitely points at which I've just always sort of used my voice and I think sometimes then too, when you raise your voice and point out a topic and others go yeah, that's a really important point you've made. That can absolutely be with. You know, you can do so in a respectful way.
Speaker 3:That for me provides a greater level of confidence that actually that is important and right, to keep respectfully pointing out the things that are not acceptable, and I do think that that happens. I mean, it certainly still happens today. Sometimes I get really disappointed that it does still happen and you have to point these sorts of things out. Why should? Why should we listen to the radio of last week without sort of relitigating what occurred in Melbourne with Marty Sheargold. Why would that joke have even thought to be acceptable? Like how boring and how disappointing. But again, it sort of helps. It helps you know, for me again just that increasing level of confidence that our voices are incredibly important.
Speaker 1:I think so, and I think you're right about the age. You do get to a stage where you're just a little bit more frank, yeah, a little bit more sure of yourself. So, when we look back at some of the younger people who are in our teams, how do we work to foster that? How do we help our young men and women Because it is not just the women who need to speak up against some of those things that perhaps need to change. Anybody got any thoughts on what we can do to help the young people in our team step up to that purpose Thoughts.
Speaker 2:I think Sarah touched a really good point. It's about speak up. So it comes from your individual action. So I'm always encouraging everybody and saying to them even if you're just the new one in, it doesn't make you less important, because someone has been here for 10 years and has 10 years experience. Your input, your values is actually something that it can make us grow. So I'm really, really want to hear what you can bring to the table so that individual action and speak up. It's a really powerful tool it's lovely, nazi.
Speaker 1:I love your business model. I love the fact that you've used economics. You know, to make change. I think it's the you know the desire to be an economist in me. I'm a failed economist, nazia. You're working with vulnerable communities, but you're also working often with those organisations who are driving change for vulnerable people. What do you bring to those conversations about helping people to speak up?
Speaker 4:Honestly, I think you know so many organisations are doing such a wonderful job at preparing the next generation. So, for example, I'm doing some work with Vinnie's, Canberra, goldburn at the moment and they have a program which is all about teaching young people in schools about social justice, and it starts with awareness of social justice issues. I find that young people are really really passionate about the world around them and purpose, so when they understand the reasoning behind something, they kind of go for it. So I was so impressed with this program and we get to do all the fun things, which is come in and see how it's going and measuring the impact of it.
Speaker 4:I have to add, while we're talking about young people, so I'm a Bangladeshi Australian and last year in Bangladesh, students overthrew a fascist government of 15 years. So I just find that amazing that these young people were willing to give up their lives for a purpose and now they've established their own party and the country is currently being led by Professor Mohamed Younis, who happens to be my idol. He's the reason why I became an economist. So it's really really incredible to see. It's really really incredible to see and I hope that you know, wherever we go, we're encouraging young people to speak up, because it's a really. There's a lot going on in the world right now and everyone needs to have a voice and do what they can.
Speaker 1:How wonderful We've gone from the Canberra-centric to the national. Thanks, sarah, for taking us there. To the international. Thank you, nazia. And it's one of those things that International Women's Day is really inspiring. There are so many events. I'm involved in three different events on Thursday and I know there's more on Friday and the weekend. It's so wonderful to see that platform be raised across so many different communities. One of the things that I'm interested in we talked about giving young people voices and moving that conversation forward. I'd be interested to turn your attention to the future. What would you like to see happen next? So perhaps it's tomorrow, next year, later on in your life. What bold action do you think you might take or that you'd like to see happen that might shift that progress? Shift the dial a little bit to go one step further in terms of progress for women in gender equality? Rafi, start with you.
Speaker 2:I think it's time that we start to stop looking at it as an experience. So, as Nazia was saying, it's good to look about the innovation. It's look about, you know, what we can bring into that particular industry. So you might be there for a long time and we're very grateful for everything that we did as women in business for so long. But it's time for the new generation to be heard. It's time for them to step up. It's not good always to point the finger and say, oh, they don't want to really do nothing or they don't have the experience, and saying, oh, they don't want to really do nothing or they don't have the experience. But if we don't give the chance to embrace the cultural change, how we can actually have a better collaboration between the old and the new generation? So, you know, let's step aside and give the chance to them to have a voice and take action.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do it their way, instead of, perhaps, with our overlay of how we think it should be done or how perhaps we approach to that. What about you, sarah? Is it going to be something different than perseverance?
Speaker 3:Oh, I do think there'll be a good dose of perseverance in there, unfortunately. I would love to see business owners just take a whole range of really practical steps. So, for instance, create environments where there can be actual diversity of sitting around a table. But it takes active management, it can't just be I hope that this will happen. It takes active thought and design to make sure that different sorts of rooms and tables, so to speak, have diversity of thought around them.
Speaker 3:In the context of International Women's Day, I think we've all got to, and business owners have got to, work even harder at making sure that there are sufficient number of seats for women at that table. Pay your women more, go through processes and again really thoroughly go through the data and why we still have a gender pay gap. Actively work in your businesses to even in fact, pay your women more than what you thought they might have, because they're probably bringing with them a whole range of systemic underpayment in the context of their roles, comparatively. So I think there's a range of things. And, of course, create environments for, again, all sorts of diversity. But in the context of International Women's Day, women to have their voices. It's incredibly important and that includes women absolutely. As Rafi has said, our younger generation of women have got fantastic ideas to contribute to the future, so it's our responsibility to create those types of opportunities.
Speaker 1:And it won't change by accident. No, I look back on my career before. People often ask me how I was brave enough to step into my own business and wanting to do something different, and I actually think that I made a probably subconscious choice at that time to step out of the glass ceiling and take my own way. I was only 25 when I started this business and I just went. I want to do something different and step out of that and I look at my mid-20s children now and go please don't have that same need to feel like you need to step out. So I think that's really wise, sarah, that business need to take action so that we don't end up with the same perseverance required, the same conversations that we had 30 years ago when we were starting out. Nazia, what, what would you like to see change? What do you think the next thing is?
Speaker 4:You know, I think that generally as women, young women, or our age or we're still young, of course.
Speaker 2:Very, very young, all of us.
Speaker 4:I think I want to go sort of grassroots. I think, women, we still have an issue with our self-worth and that stops us from doing all sorts of grassroots. I think, women, we still have an issue with our self-worth and that stops us from doing all sorts of things, and I think there needs to be real education at various levels, starting in school, for women to really understand their self-worth, and that will make a lot of difference in lots of different places. The second thing, I think, is around this culture of fear of failure, right. So recently I was invited by the US government on this program for women in entrepreneurship, so I got to travel the US and understand more about women enterprises, and one thing that really struck me, that was amazing in their culture, is that there is no fear of failure, right.
Speaker 4:And I think, as Aussies, we still have a little bit of a bit of you know, uh, a long way to go in that space actually, because I think, um, I don't believe there's any such thing as failure. It's always a learning, and I think when women start understanding that, because there's already imposter syndrome, there's a lack of self-worth, and then, on top of that, you know, wouldn't it be great if we all walked around going well, it's okay if we fail, it's okay if we make mistakes and if we're in like a kind and beautiful society, people will forgive you. I mean, I made a huge mistake this morning and the thing is that I've learned from it and the people around me are wonderful and we found a different solution. So I hope to see that, I hope to see women of all colors and races and backgrounds and whatever just be like.
Speaker 4:Yes, I am amazing. I am definitely at least as good as the you know, the equal man next to me, if not better. Because it shouldn't be about gender and I think I'd love it that. You know, in the next few years we don't have to have these discussions around. You know gender, pay gap parodies and things like that, like it should just be. You know every person.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean, it's a well-known fact, or a myth at least, that we're told. Um, any business course you go on, any of those entrepreneurial type courses they talk about, you only become a really strong, robust business if you failed a couple of times. You know they actually talk about it like a badge of honor. Um, failing in business is actually where you and people who have been venture capitalists always say yeah, yeah. Well, I got to where I am because I failed a couple of times and that's how I learnt. And I think that, nazia, you're entirely right. If we could, as a community, embrace that so that the fear of failure isn't isn't the preeminent view, it's more about a badge of honour. Well, I had a go at that, jeez, I learned some stuff. I'm going to really make a difference to my next one, rafi, that must be something that you come across a lot in your leadership and mentoring that you do all around the world. What do you tell people when they've got that fear of failure?
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, it's very real, and I think we're actually self-sabotaging ourselves, probably 99% of the case. But one of the tools and strategies that I'm always saying to people is find your tribe, find your sponsors, your mentors. They are extremely important. We've been in business for a long time. We can be extraordinary mentors for somebody else. Tell them what we fail, the challenges that we actually face, and how they can actually learn from that and maybe build something even better than what we fail, the challenges that we actually face and how they can actually learn from that and maybe build something even better than what we did.
Speaker 2:It's all about legacy, it's all about progress. So we did a little bit of Puff. Now it's up to them to just prolong that. But mentorship and sponsorship is actually something really wonderful for women. So I'm always saying that the brotherhood is really real. It doesn't matter how long they know each other. They support each other, they stick for each other. When it comes down to female, it's still a little bit weak. We're still not really there for one another and I think we need to improve in that as women, to stick for each other and just support us.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, we were talking about that before we started, yeah I was just going to jump in there, raffy, it's really interesting.
Speaker 3:I, I must be honest, I find such great strength, um from my women, friends and my.
Speaker 3:I've got four sisters and they're strong, amazing, fantastic women and I would say all of the women in my life us as to other men, but in the context of the support that we provide and, in fact, actually the failures that each and every one of us go through and be it in the context of business or life and a whole there's there's a lot of different opportunities to make lots of really big mistakes, but I have to say that the um, the support and strength that I feel, that my group of women in my life, that we all give each other, just gives me such a huge strength to go on because they believe and see in me the things that I don't necessarily, and vice versa, I see in them and can talk until the cows come home about how amazing they are and I do think that in fact, actually it's incredibly important.
Speaker 3:So I acknowledge that's just my own circumstance and something I'm incredibly grateful for. But I really encourage both my children, but particularly my daughter, to make sure that she's I suppose it's finding your tribe, as you've described, but finding that group of people but in many times it will be girlfriends or your female friends that will again be that huge sort of backbone to all of the things we want to go and do in life because we are so sensational.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah, and in Canberra, as we started, before we turned the microphones on, we were all just talking, and Canberra is really a small place. We were able to make connections. We knew kids who played sport together and all those sorts of things, and so it is out there for grasping. You can reach out and grab and build that network for yourself and, of course, the Canberra Business Chamber is one of those networks. It was nice of Greg to hand over his podcast room to a bunch of businesswomen, but there are more women like us amongst the membership of the Canberra Business Chamber, so we do encourage us to all bond together to get to know each other.
Speaker 1:I've got a bit of concluding comments to make, but before I do, thank you to my wonderful panel members. We've just had the most wonderful chat We've had Rafi Segroy from Khan Mechanical Services and from HerZest and SageAdvice so many different networks that she's part of. Sarah Bailey, who's at Penten with an amazing array of security, defence software, fancy stuff that we should, in Canberra, be so proud of that people are producing. And, of course, nazia Ahmed from Social Outcomes Lab what do you call?
Speaker 4:it.
Speaker 1:Solab wonderful nickname, but a grassroots business making a difference. So I'm Helen from Communication Link, and this podcast has been brought to you by the Canberra Business Chamber with the support of Care Super, an industry super fund with competitive fees and returns, exceptional service and a focus on real care. So I've been joined today by Sarah Bailey, rafi Scroy and Nazia Ahmed. Don't forget to follow us, the Canberra Business Chamber, on your favourite podcast platform to stay up to date with the latest editions of Canberra Business Podcast. Thank you.