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The Canberra Business Podcast
Beyond 9-to-5: Creating an 18-7 City Experience in Canberra
Craig Gillman believes he might have the best job in ACT government, and after listening to his vision for Canberra's city center, you might agree. As CEO of the City Renewal Authority, Gillman is at the forefront of transforming the capital's urban core into something truly dynamic, inclusive, and competitive.
Forget outdated stereotypes about Canberra being dull or family focused. Today's capital boasts the youngest demographic profile of any Australian city, with an increasingly multicultural population hungry for experiences. The Authority's work spans from major land developments like the former cloverleaf site near QT Hotel to place-based interventions such as the Braddon Streetscapes improvements and the exciting Namawari Park along the waterfront.
The numbers speak for themselves – city visitation increased by 30% between 2023 and 2024, with patterns shifting later into afternoons as work habits change. Have a listen to this exciting podcast for more on the future of the city that we love!
This episode is supported by CareSuper.
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast. I'm Greg Harford, your host from the Canberra Business Chamber, and today I'm joined by Craig Gilman, the Chief Executive of the ACT Government's City Renewal Authority. Craig, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:It's a pleasure to be here, Greg.
Speaker 1:So the City Renewal Authority is well known around town, but many people perhaps don't understand what it is that you do. So what's the role of the CRA in terms of both sort of development but also city activations?
Speaker 2:It's quite a broad role. So we're not a core asset owner maintainer that's our good friends at City Services and Transport Canberra. But we do do land development. So most recently we've done the patch of land that is now in front of the QT, which was the former cloverleaf, and that's going to be a fantastic development with 500 residents, a hotel and commercial. But we also do targeted, place-based interventions where we think we can change the nature of a place, and an example of that is the Braddon Streetscapes.
Speaker 2:There was nowhere to cross on Lonsdale Street. Now we've narrowed those crossing points, put the crossings in Mort Street. Similarly, we've got we're really excited about Namawari Park, which is an acting waterfront and that's a 50 metre park, 50 metre radius park that runs around the whole waterfront. We were gifted the name Namawari by the Ngunnawal people, so we're quite privileged with that. We're just this month we should be completing the temporary park and the reason it's temporary is that's lake infill and we need to make sure it's stable before we put structures on it. And we look to be in market for the permanent park in the coming months, um, and, if the engineering goes well, start before um, christmas.
Speaker 2:Uh, so we do that. But then we also activate those places through events winter in the city, la Fiesta in City West, lunar New Year in Dixon. So it's quite a broad range of things. I'll tell a story, actually. I met Minister Patterson for the first time as we were launching Lunar New Year on the Thursday before, and I've never met him before, and so I introduced myself Craig Gilman, ceo of City Renewal, and he looked at me and he said you know what? I think you've got the best job in ACT government. And I went probably right, probably right.
Speaker 1:So a lot of really interesting things in there a bit of development, a bit of activation, some events, all of which help sort of bring people into the city centre. But, overall, what's your purpose, what's your vision?
Speaker 2:We want to make the city centre and our precinct dynamic. It doesn't always have the reputation Canberra doesn't always have that reputation of being dynamic.
Speaker 2:Which is very unfair of course, which is entirely unfair. I'll rattle off some stats. We are the youngest demographic of any city in Australia. In the last 25 years, which was when I first came to Canberra, the multicultural aspect of our society has exploded. So the population has really changed. It's now an experience-driven population. They want experiences. It's now an experience-driven population. They want experiences.
Speaker 2:It's not just about families. What's the old thing about Nappy Valley and Tuggeranong? Right? So there are still families, but our marketing tells us that one of our biggest market segments and in fact, our best spenders in the precinct, are the family stimulators. So they're people like me who bring my kids in on the weekend, and that's really important. So dynamic, inclusive. There is a really rich theme in Canberra about all tribes together. It is really and you only need to look around the world at the moment and things are getting nastier and the importance of that inclusivity cannot be overstated. But we've also got to be competitive, right? So we want the economic vibrancy in the city, we want the development, we want the businesses, um, and we want them to succeed, so that in those three things you know, um, dynamic, inclusive and competitive, yeah, now you've mentioned the precinct a couple of times, but that's not the whole city.
Speaker 1:Right CRA is focused very much on the inner city.
Speaker 2:Yes, correct. So if you think about the existing light rail corridor from Epic down through Dixon, through Hague Park, to Lonsdale Street in Braddon and then to the Bulb, as you might recognise, of the city. So that's our precinct.
Speaker 1:OK, so pretty much city centre Braddon down to New Action. But given the fact that many people are working from home and there's a migration of shopping to outlying suburbs, or indeed online, does the CBD still matter?
Speaker 2:Talk about online and does the CBD still matter? Talk about online. Two years ago. We collect spend data as best we can, or footfall data. Two years ago and this will reflect on me and my lack of engagement with current trends there was a monstrous spike in bricks and mortar attendance and spend in October and I couldn't work it out. It was Black Friday. So even sales that are marketed as online have a huge impact on the bricks and mortar and that's absolutely true. But with the we also, I mentioned, we capture the visitation data, and the visitation data between 2023 and 2024 has gone up by about 30%. So the time that you, I, others, spend in the city has gone up by about 30% just in that year. So that's really strong. Um, it's also. It has changed up by about 30% just in that year. So that's really strong. It's also it has changed. You mentioned working from home. The visitation has shifted later in the day to 2, 3 o'clock in the afternoon, but there are plenty of people arriving in the city and, you know, enjoying the city.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, that's good to hear, and I guess what, as we're evolving as a society, we're more into certain experiences, as you say, perhaps sort of a more traditional bricks and mortar retail experience, if we're coming in later in the day. What's the future of the CBD look like from your point of view?
Speaker 2:Well, there is that experience dynamic, and I always tell my story like, from your point of view. Well, there is that experience, dynamic, um, and you know I always tell my story, um, it's our city center. I live in bungalow, it's my city center. I'm in here nearly every weekend enjoying something in the whether it's restaurants, it's bar, but in here every weekend. So the city in Canberra is the economic engine room of the ACT. It by far and away delivers the most gross value add of any precinct.
Speaker 2:I mentioned before social cohesion and inclusion. This is really important that we've got somewhere we can all come to celebrate, protest, meet, dwell. It's really important. From that social cohesion, a bit of a change is the city needs to provide more housing. I mentioned the demographics before have shifted so we will have a real focus on building the residential community of the city over the coming years and that's really important to diversify the visitation to the city so you get out of this nine to five paradigm into an 18-7 paradigm. So it's really important you've got those diversity of uses and the population to support the activity in the city.
Speaker 2:I mentioned my experience. It's the city centre for the region, so it's where I come on weekends I bring my kids in and this is shown in the spend data so we can track incoming spend. So out of the precinct into and in Braddon the highest incoming spend comes from where I come from, so it might be me in Queanbeyan surrounds, so Bangalore, and that was 11 months of last year. That was the highest and one other month that was yes. So it really does prove that IKEA model of the drive market and it's really important.
Speaker 1:So it's really interesting that you've got such an influx of people from out Queanbeyan way and yourself, of course, coming in on the weekends into Braddon. One of the challenges that I often hear about is parking and the accessibility of the CBD in Braddon areas. Is there enough parking, do you think?
Speaker 2:Personally. So this is anecdotal rather than researched. I've never had a problem. I use the example of last year's National Multicultural Festival just as an anecdotal story.
Speaker 2:So my then 11-year-old and I went to the aqua park on the lake in the morning At 10 o'clock we jumped off all the things and climbed up and played and did all that. And then we came in because we thought, well, we'll go and have some lunch and then we'll go to Multicultural Festival. So we were headed to Bentspoke. I parked outside Bentspoke, I walked into the National Multicultural Festival and walked back and it was so easy. So I don't find that problem. Sometimes you've got to look in different places than you may have looked in the past. I'll stick with National Multicultural Festival. I don't know what the stats were this year, but last year it was 380,000 people, right. They all got to the city and away without any challenge. So they either drove and parked, they did a park and ride, they got the light rail, they rode. So there is plenty of capacity in the transport network to bring people in and out of the city.
Speaker 1:And that's a lot of people coming in for the multicultural festival over what two, three days. Days yeah, you know, which is really good for the vibrancy and dynamism of the city centre. But I guess one of the questions that people sometimes have is well, all these people are coming in and they're buying a bit of food at the stalls that are there in the multicultural festival. But is that really helping the retailers and the more established hospitality businesses. Here Is there a spillover effect.
Speaker 2:So I think there are two spillover effects. I mentioned before the importance of inclusion and celebration and that is a wonderful event. It's just amazing and credit to the team who pulled that off. We assist, but that's all we do in City Renewal. That's a great team and it's a great product that they've got and need to continue.
Speaker 2:What we notice in the attendance and footfall patterns is last year we had National Multicultural Festival and then Enlighten followed on. There was a monstrous spike for National Multicultural Festival and then Enlighten followed on. There was a monstrous spike for National Multicultural Festival and for Enlighten in that evening in particular that afternoon evening attendance. But what we found is that footfall pattern was sustained. So I haven't done the research, but my working hypothesis is that people came in for NMF or Enlighten into the city, found that it wasn't hard to get in. They could get a park or they could get the light rail. They changed how they travelled, so that wasn't hard. But then they this is my working hypothesis is they saw things they have loved but haven't been to for a long time, or they saw a whole heap of new stuff that they thought was exciting. So they came back in the following weekends and it was really sustained. It was quite that pattern.
Speaker 2:I mentioned the spend data we've got and we're still it's new for us. This spend data is really comprehensive and new for us. It's based on Commonwealth Bank credit card data, so we're still learning how to use it and wrapping our heads around it. But on that, that spend data doesn't cover the mobile food trucks right, it only picks up the bricks and mortar retail and there was about a million dollar increase over the three days in the bricks and mortar retail and there was about a million-dollar increase over the three days in the bricks and mortar. Now I don't know whether that was in F&B, I don't know if it was in Coles, I don't know. Broadly through the Canberra Centre, I don't know. But as we start to get more sophisticated with the data, we'll be able to look at that. But there was a million-dollar bump.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's a sizable uplift and yeah, and good, good to hear, and I guess we'll be interested to hear how, um how, how that uh unpacks as you get for sort of further into into the data. Um, let's move on and talk about light rail, which is everyone's favorite subject at the moment. Um, you know, there's a lot of businesses that are sort of feeling a bit squeezed as a result of the closure of London Circuit. What is your role in helping those businesses impacted by the disruption?
Speaker 2:So we've got a general role in activating the city and Braddon, particularly as we collect the city centre marketing improvements, levy and use that. So we've got that general role of assistance. But we are working very closely with ICBR who are leading the program of business engagement and business support. So we'll work with them specifically on, probably, a walking trail around City West and see how we can bring more people walking around London Circuit in front of those businesses. I might talk to what we've done at Garima Place. So we very much had a strategy of working with businesses before, during which is where we are now and after.
Speaker 1:Because there's a lot of disruption in Garima Place at the moment as well With the upgrade.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're all shops and they're great shops. You've got Redpaths, you've got Landspeed, laquita they're great. And if you actually think about between Garima Place and the Sydney and Melbourne buildings that's quite the restaurant and bar hub. Right, absolutely, and it's really bespoke to Canberra. So you know we want to look after it and we want it to do well. But we had a program of Friday evening activations in Garima leading up to the construction. We've got a business guide for how you can access grants, support, advice for all the businesses, really close communication with the businesses right down to staging. So we avoided Christmas and probably had the assumption that no one wanted us in their shop front before Christmas. Well, it actually turns out the comic shop didn't care so much about Christmas, but they had a big festival on the Australia Day long weekend and that was what was really critical to them, so we were able to program to work around that.
Speaker 2:The other thing that we've done is working with the restaurants and bars around their outdoor dining right. So it is a requirement of their permit that they get removed in 48 hours so that we can do public works if we need to, and and that's great. So there's been a lot of communication. But the quality of what goes back and how easy it is to go back is something we've really worked on. So we've got an MOU with Access Canberra and Transport Canberra and City Services basically put out an outdoor dining guide which shows what is easy to approve and gives them the timelines and a bit of an expedited pathway to get through that, such that when we pack up the fences outside their shop front, we can get outdoor dining back really quickly. So those are the sorts of things we've been doing.
Speaker 1:Awesome. So you mentioned the Central City Marketing and Improvement Levy. Now, some people who don't have a business in the CBD might not be across this, but it's a levy, a charge, that's applied to businesses here in Civic and Braddon and in your area. How much do you collect it? How much do you spend each year and what's it spent on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the actual levy is levied on leaseholders as part of their rates, so it's an increment on their rates. The total collection for the city centre improvements and marketing levy is about $2.5 million and we use that as part of a program where we contribute $2.5 million, so essentially co-contribution dollar for dollar. That's not quite right because we actually use some of that money, for example in Dixon and Dixon isn't a CCMILE levy area but generally. So what do we use it for? Creating interest and excitement Lunar, new Year, winter in the City, festive Finds in the City, our Christmas program, la Fiesta, our Latin American festival out here at Latin American Plaza. We also do about so I mentioned hours of plantings, of cleaning, place management, just to give it that little bit of an extra oomph. We also run grants so on.
Speaker 2:I think it's the 30th of March we've got the Braddon Busking Festival back right, which is a great little, supporting local artists, bringing culture to the city, bringing activation and interest to the city. We also do a pretty heavy marketing program. So with all of those events we work with businesses to leverage their marketing and promote the businesses. So you know, for festive finds in the city we had hundreds and hundreds of business engagements, link-throughs to products, offers from all of our local businesses in the city it was fantastic and up to Braddon. You know it was all of those businesses.
Speaker 2:We also do marketing research. So I mentioned right at the beginning that I'm a family stimulator and I spend the most money out of any cohort we have. But we have, you know, the retired and exploring you know. So we've got those different age categories in different stages of life and we use that to assist businesses with their marketing right. So give them that information about how they can target the audiences they want, but also for our events and activations, such that we know we're bringing the right cohorts in now you mentioned cleaning as being something extra that you do as part of that levy spend.
Speaker 1:Does that include graffiti removal? I mean, I hear a lot of noise about graffiti in the CBD. Is that something you're focused on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, since COVID lockdown, I would describe the frequency of graffiti as much higher. I know that's anecdotal, but it's true. So, yes, our team do do graffiti removal. It is a core responsibility of the building owners to keep their buildings in a condition that is satisfactory. However, we do do it. We try to jump on it quickly. There are buildings that have been graffitied repeatedly and were cleaned repeatedly, so we do try, but we largely work with building owners to keep their building in a condition that's appropriate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and many building owners, of course, are concerned about the cost of graffiti and I think, as you say, and I think it's right, there's, but it seems to have been an increase over over time and the level of activity that's going on, so there's kind of repeated costs for business as well as for you obviously, in that. Is there anything more we can be doing to try and address that? Do you?
Speaker 2:think well, I might. If I was to answer that question fully, I would stray well out of sight of my policy and remit as part of CRA. But I do think and this is Craig talking now, not CEO of City Renewal just as a society, we care less than we used to. And's not canberra, that's sydney, that's new york, that's london, that's everywhere, and I don't quite get what that is, um, and I do think it's really important that we all it's an active process to be proud and to keep on top of these things, and I think that's an obligation on us all.
Speaker 1:A bit more civic pride.
Speaker 2:A bit more civic pride.
Speaker 1:Now, just jumping back to that marketing level, how do you sorry marketing levy? I should say, how do you engage with businesses about how that money is spent?
Speaker 2:So we I might put out an ask at the end of this, Greg but we run surveys, so we send surveys to businesses, to building owners. We get an incredibly low response rate, incredibly low.
Speaker 1:I think one of the survey years.
Speaker 2:We got less than 20 responses. But I mentioned people who do have civic pride and want to be engaged. So we have a representative group of levy payers and businesses. There's about 15 or 16 of them on at the moment and that's businesses that are in disability, employment, that's developer, that's food and beverage retail businesses, right. So it's a good cross section and we meet with them about once a quarter and we really consult with them on how to engage and get that feedback but also what's working, what do we need to tweak, what's coming up. So that's really, really useful. We spent a bit of time with them, with that CCMIL advisory group at their last meeting trying to work out how we could better get better feedback from the broader business and owner community. Their suggestion and I'm happy to take feedback from your members and the chamber itself their suggestion was focus groups. Right, you, you do your representative samples and do focus groups rather than relying on surveys which are a bit spray and pray so that was their suggestion is get more focused.
Speaker 2:Yes, you're not going to be able to say to everyone when we send you a survey, but you're going to get richer. More targeted, more thoughtful feedback is what we're thinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and certainly that's an increasingly common research tactic across the board, isn't it? I guess, taking a step back from the detail, are you looking and engaging with other cities and kind of learning from the experiences of what's happening in the inner cities of other locations?
Speaker 2:Yes, quite heavily so. For example, the outdoor dining guide I mentioned before, we've based that on a model from Perth. The business support guides. We've looked at Sydney and Melbourne and how the councils there have gone about it. We do also look at precincts. So there is a government land organizations network which has renew sa development, victoria landcom, us it's the national land agencies and we um share a lot um about what's worked, what hasn't, how to shape things. You know, very recently we did a bit of a deep dive into bowden, a suburb, a new suburb in Adelaide. It was fantastic. It was really helpful for me to think about the Acton Waterfront neighbourhood because it's of that similar scale. It's not Wentworth Point in Sydney, which is Bilbergia, and they've got a thousand dwellings in one unit block. This was modest, sensitive and really well done. So we definitely learned from others.
Speaker 1:Excellent. Well, thank you very much for joining us. On the podcast, I've been talking to Craig Gilman, the Chief Executive of the City Renewal Authority. It's been great having you here and learning a little bit more about what CRA does.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Greg, and just a reminder that this episode of the Canberra Business Podcast has been brought to you by the Canberra Business Chamber with the support of Care Super, an industry super fund with competitive fees and returns, exceptional service and a focus on real care. Don't forget to follow us on your favourite podcast platform for future episodes of the Canberra Business Podcast, and we'll catch you next time.