The Canberra Business Podcast
A podcast about all things Canberra Business.
The Canberra Business Podcast
The Future of Workspaces: How Co-working is Reshaping Office Life
When office buildings become more than just places to work, magic happens. That's the powerful message Tashi Dorji, head of FlexSpace at JLL Flex Solutions, brings to the Canberra Business Podcast as he unpacks the evolution of co-working spaces from simple desk rentals to vibrant communities driving innovation and connection.
Remember when "cool" offices just meant bean bags and ping pong tables? Those days are gone. Today's flexible workspaces serve as strategic assets for building owners and tenants alike, functioning as what Dorji calls a "Trojan horse for some really cool stuff" – podcast studios, media rooms, event spaces, and amenities that make commuting worthwhile. These spaces aren't just about accommodating work; they're about creating experiences that can't be replicated at home. The future of work isn't just about flexibility – it's about creating environments where meaningful connections happen naturally and people genuinely want to be.
Haven Workspaces provides a diverse array of flexible membership options tailored to suit your professional needs. Their offerings range from a prestigious business address for startups and entrepreneurs, to convenient casual access for those requiring occasional workspace, to fully-equipped private offices designed for small teams and established enterprise organisations. Whatever your working style, Haven Workspaces has the ideal solution to enhance your productivity and business image.
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast. I'm Greg Harford, your host from the Canberra Business Chamber, and today I'm joined by Tashi Dorji, the host of FlexSpace JLL Australasia, to talk about Haven Workspaces. Tashi, welcome all the way from Sydney to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Great to have you here in Canberra. Tell us a little bit about your role. What do you do and what is Haven Workspaces?
Speaker 2:Well, it's an evolving role and it started for me almost six years ago role. And it started for me almost six years ago and by evolving I mean it's kind of evolved with the way that people work. You know the hybrid work situation that we have and what Flex means for JLL and my team is we actually help our investor and landlord clients specifically design, build and operate their own co-working and Flex spaces Because, especially over the last six years, you know the traditional lease and office layout and floor plans have needed to adapt in response to people's needs to work in different ways in their lifestyles. So almost a stacking plan of a traditional building used to be like lobby amenities lease, lease, lease, lease, lease. Now, having a floor or two of co-working within that building to offer to the tenants within the asset or people who are looking for flexibility is a huge value add for any asset owner.
Speaker 2:So that's what we do and we've successfully been doing it on a partnership and white label basis for owners all over Australia and even Asia. And when I say white label, it's like it. It's gonna be something like Haven workspaces. It's not going to be called JLL flex workspace. You know where the engine behind it, but the owner really loves to brand it themselves so they can create their own form of loyalty and experience, both in the look and feel of the space but also the way that we we've run it.
Speaker 1:yeah, and here in Canberra you've got one space up on Northbourne. Are there plans for more?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I literally just came from the second site, which we can't announce just yet, but should be hitting the press release button any moment now. It's a sister space, not necessarily as in the CBD, as Haven, but it's going to be an interesting network and dynamic that we can create.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Well, we'll look forward to the workspace opening at the right time. What does your job look like on a day-to-day basis? How does sort of managing the fit-out and operation of these workspaces work in practice?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, my day-to-day right now is very different to what it normally is, because we were talking offline earlier, but I'm currently on paternity leave towards the end of it, yeah, which is very exciting, but I have to say you're on paternity leave, but here you are in Canberra.
Speaker 1:How does that work? Well, well, and congratulations to them, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:So my son's six months old now, his name's Logan, and it was really important for me to take the time that JLL generously offered, which is about three, four months of pat leave, but at the same time still be present in my role, because I can't exactly disappear for that much of a time, because I'll come back to a bit of a lagging. You know, work a day or two a week, and that was a conversation with my wife where I asked her well, not really asked. We had a dialogue and she was very supportive where she'd work four days a week. Give me a day where she'd take Logan and that would allow me to go to the office, and then I'd cobble together hours for for a second day which has been great because it's allowed me to still stay present but be with work, but be super aware, attentive with Logan and oh, like, no regrets there because it's been testing.
Speaker 2:Like I am very tired right now because I literally have been up since 2 am and I drove down at 4.30 and I had a full day here and I'll have to drive back, but super rewarding and I guess my day in the life pre-Pat leave is.
Speaker 2:My side of the role is very focused on speaking to the investors and the landlord owners, which is a full-time, very rewarding but hectic job because a lot of office owners and even hotel owners and investors within the space they all realize they need to adapt and change what their buildings look like to essentially help their tenants and the companies within their buildings attract their talent and employees into the office. Because if they can't get them back into the office and they all just want to work from home, well then they don't really need that lease in that building anymore, do they? And that assets valuation takes a bit of a hit. So by providing a co-working or a flex experience within the building that complements even their own tenancy upstairs, by putting some cool stuff in there, help solve that piece of the puzzle. So conversations with the owners there and then speaking internally to the jll design team, the build team, the property asset management team, even working with the leasing agents to fill it um, we create something bespoke for the owner and also the the target audience that they're looking.
Speaker 1:So is that working as a way of getting people back into the office? Are people keen to come in and explore the co-working options?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's almost like, if you really want to look at it from a and I'll speak from the perspective of an asset owner.
Speaker 2:So let's pretend you own a building.
Speaker 2:You've decided to put co-working in there to try and help this office dichotomy and dilemma right now, it helps twofold.
Speaker 2:One, they normally would only target big companies signing five, ten year leases within their building, because that's traditional office right.
Speaker 2:Suddenly they get to open up a net to lots of small to medium sized businesses, even small headcount consultancy agencies or even sole consultants, which is great because if they nurture them and they provide a safe space for them to grow and work, they could grow and take up more space further down the track. So it suddenly opens up a whole new customer demographic which again is a whole different can of worms, which is why they like to work with a co-working operator or a partner. But secondly, you know, signing those leases upstairs in the building, you might have a big company renewing or looking at the building going oh, we may not need three floors anymore, we may only need two, two and a half, but we may need the three. We're in this gray area right now where we haven't exactly figured out what our office strategy is how can you help us so they have the confidence to then sign that lease and take that full tenure because they know there's a floor or two of flexibility and co-working space downstairs that they can use?
Speaker 2:And I guess the third point which I shouldn't have glazed over is the co-working, and the flex is a Trojan horse for some really cool stuff. So it's not just about desks and flexibility. We also strategically put thoughtful amenities in there that we think the tenants and the surrounding demographic will enjoy. Funnily enough, one's a podcast studio which we're speaking into right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because just imagine if you've got a building with, like you know, 100 companies you know, maybe not 100, but like 20 companies who all want to get into podcasts but they don't have the setup nor the expertise for it to live within.
Speaker 2:The co-working space and service is excellent, but we found, like things, event spaces that you can't put within your own tenancy. Obviously, bookable meeting rooms are always healthy, but media rooms have been, I find, quite attractive right now. So what happens beyond the podcast? How cool would it be if you're trying to create corporate content, if you're trying to create content for your business or even for your personal brand, suddenly there's a room that has a podcast studio in there, but it also has cameras set up. It's got um, it's structured in a way where they tell you where to sit with the lighting, you have a green screen behind you or you have a brick wall there. It makes it easy just to do that stuff, whereas if you didn't have access to something like that, there's just so many obstacles to just doing it just shooting content, right, so so things like that like, how do we put all of these different amenities and experiences in there that kind of make it worth coming to work as well?
Speaker 1:yeah, so that's, that's a really exciting concept. I mean, what other, what other sort of practical things are you saying? I mean, we're talking about far more than sort of slides and beanbags, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, like I mean, once upon a time you know you'd and this was back in the days where we work was running rampant and everyone kind of experienced the space. You used to just see ping pong tables and beer taps and beanbags and that was that right, and it was like, oh, that's really cool. I think, funnily enough, beyond the physical space, something that has been very attractive to getting people into the office is what is the community calendar and activations program meaning? Within some of the malleable spaces of that floor plan, within the co-working space, what's going on? And it's not, oh, we're serving breakfast or networking drinks.
Speaker 2:Like, is there a wellness theme that could really be pulled on within that area, because that demographic of people really value that kind of stuff. You know whether it could be something as basic as a yoga class or actually a breathing class. You know talking about how you can harness your breathing. Could it be more tech-orientated content? You know artificial intelligence classes, all that kind of stuff. A lot of the time what we do is we poll who's in the space, who wants to use the space, what kind of stuff are you interested in, and then bring in an expert to facilitate something for them, and then that way people who come to those events meet like-minded people and then it becomes really a community play. I'm a big believer that space is a vehicle for the human interaction at the end of the day, not just work. And if you can really make that work, then that's a plus. Low-hanging fruit is put in a really good work cafe in there so people can kind of hear the coffee beans being ground, get a coffee and have conversations with people too.
Speaker 1:And you've got to have decent coffee, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, of course.
Speaker 1:So what kind of tenants or businesses are choosing co-working spaces? Is there a change in what you're seeing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. You know, traditionally it would be very focused on start-ups you, you know, moms and dad, companies who would work from home, which is why the floor plan demographic, call it, five, ten years ago was largely open plan desk settings, you know, just like lots of desks scattered everywhere. But we've definitely seen a much higher uptake of enterprise companies and clients wanting access to flexibility, higher uptake of enterprise companies and clients wanting access to flexibility. So that floor plan has changed slightly where you still get the open plan desks, but you're seeing more and more like private offices, project spaces, all those kind of things. So there's an element of control and security within there. That's definitely been something. We run some spaces across australia as the jl flex team where it's specifically targeting certain industries and companies based off what the owners wanted the owner of that building, like medtech and biotech. So having collaborative spaces is really important for them. I think there's a huge opportunity for future spaces whoever's listening that's thinking of getting into co-working or looking for them for niche operations and spaces to emerge.
Speaker 2:So, rather than just have anyone who's looking for flexibility come and use it, what does it look like if it's a small co-working space specifically targeting creatives or law firms or technology, because then you really can tailor the product mix and the layout of that space and even how you communicate in there to that industry and you get this really cool collective and melting pot of conversations and ideas and support. Not to say that the more generalized, flexible workspaces don't work they absolutely do, but I think, especially in a world with artificial intelligence and stuff like that, I feel like people will create like crave, familiarity and connection. So I think that's a good way to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think we saw a lot of that coming out of COVID right. As lockdowns ended, people were desperate to sort of re-engage physically and reconnect with each other, and so it's obviously kind of a key part of the human psyche and it sounds like a co-working space is a good way you can kind of facilitate that community engagement?
Speaker 2:Oh for sure, because even before JLL and a few other roles, I actually started a business for about six years that was called TwoSpace and that turned restaurants that were closed during the day into co-working spaces. And we found funnily enough, you know it was a sharing economy play because these restaurants were paying rent full-time but they were only opening it for dinner. So what happens if we activate it during the day with wi-Fi? With our technology partner at the time, optus, we found that out of our 10,000 plus members that we eclipsed to like, over 60% of them either had a home office or were already working in an office, which totally blew my mind, that's weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I was like that totally blew my mind because I thought the vision at the start and the problem we were solving is people who didn't have access to office space, affordable office space and we could charge cheap as chips because we weren't paying a lease it was sharing with the restaurateur at the time and then hotels.
Speaker 1:So the fact and this was you know eight years ago.
Speaker 2:So old life.
Speaker 2:But the fact that majority of our users were people who already had access to a workspace showed us that we were never a space solution.
Speaker 2:We were a community play because when we asked them why, it's because they just wanted that first of all, they would think differently in different spaces. So they loved the idea of being in a creative space and, funnily enough, restaurants. Just in general, the fit-out is very different to an office, so it just made them think different and then just being able to access lots of different people um outside of their own office hours was just fascinating for them. So that's a bit of a nod to what happened, because this all happened pre-covid um, which is one of the reasons why that kind of startup went scaled and failed um, and it's a bit of a nod to what's happening now, I think you know yeah, absolutely, um so so, community being kind of central to office working in the future and and indeed to the the future of co-working spaces, what's what's the favorite sort of, what's your favorite thing that you've seen come through in community settings?
Speaker 1:you've talked about yoga and all sorts of things, but but what's what? What's the thing that really excites you?
Speaker 2:ah, like, okay, there's. I'll answer this in two parts. The first one is I always get super excited when something comes out of a connection and and what I specifically mean and it's this happened to us a few times, both in jll spaces and also in my previous life with the two-space idea when two people meet and start a business and then that business thrives and grows and then creates its own ecosystem, hits, valuation, hires, more people. I think that is what it's all about, a big part of it, because, again, the space is facilitating that form of human interaction. They're like-minded Many times where a salesperson would meet a tech person or, you know, a marketing person and then they would collaborate in a way that they would then go on and to create something, and that that definitely would happen more often within the startup community. Within you know that target demographic and the consultants out there, and it doesn't mean you have to go start the next. You know SpaceX or Tesla or whatever. It could just be potentially two consultants that have two different skill sets, meeting, realizing they have a similar clientele and then combining their value proposition into a combined package that they can both, you know, present on the side as well, and then you know, I think that kind of collaboration is always a huge win.
Speaker 2:The second part of that answer, I guess for me, when I always see community activations, is I really like culture and art activation stuff. So I feel like wellness, yes, is really important, but that we can all agree, has been really done to death. I feel, like within office, like wellness is something where the activations has really hit the market. You've got your gyms, you've got your coal plungers, your saunas, your yoga studios, and it's all positive because people use them and offices leaned into it, put that in buildings.
Speaker 2:But I think one thing that's missing is what about music? What about art? What about these other cultures that have huge communities behind them that could come into the space? And one really good example is there's a platform out there called SpaceNow. They specialize in a double-sided marketplace where they have access to those communities of artists and musicians. So if you've got dead space within your co-working space or an event space or even your office, rather than just host an event they might get oh, an artist is going to go showcase their art within the space. Bring all of their people to come check it out. But you can also ask your tenants to come down and check out the art, maybe purchase something, and then you've got something that brings a vibe to it. It doesn't feel artificial or forced. Those are the kind of things that I think is really cool, and I hope to see more of it happen in the future.
Speaker 1:So that, I think, is really cool and I hope to see more of it happen in the future. So how do you go about designing that community and culture experience into the co-working space and into the strategy.
Speaker 2:It's hard, it doesn't happen day one. It's almost like you've got to test. It's like almost A-B testing, even if you're starting a business or anything, or in technology there's a term called a b testing. We just test, test, test. You have a general idea when you first open the space of what your target demographic of user would enjoy. Because more often than not when you open a co-working business for the first time, you may pre-market it for a three to six month period and you may open at call a 30 occupancy, so it's not completely full. It opens at about third full, which is really important from a business perspective because then it's covering staff costs, operating costs and everything you can't open empty and then normally it ramps up in a six to twelve month period to 80 85 occupancy, right. So it's almost like that first year when you're onboarding members and more people are joining. You've got this ability to test different events, different activities, different, you know, lean into different arts and cultures.
Speaker 2:I think the key is really speaking and asking the people. I think you know not just surveys, but having your people on site within the co-working space. Have a dialogue with every. Everyone is overlooked and really important Just be human. It's funny, right, like sometimes we get so caught up in all the detail. It's like just have a conversation, you know, just be a human being, and I think that's a big part of it. Like having a really good on-site community manager, which every site should have, that believes in community, fosters it and figures out how to kind of grow with the community. That's literally growing as the space continues to operate.
Speaker 1:And do you see differences between co-working spaces here in Canberra versus the rest of the country? Are we all very similar in much of a muchness, or are there different drivers and different capitals all?
Speaker 2:very similar and much of a muchness, or are they different drivers and different capitals? You know the back of house is largely similar, meaning you know most spaces use the same technology, the booking platforms. You know for a co-working business to largely stack up from a fiscal and a financial perspective. You need your private offices, you need your open plan desks, you need your meeting spaces, you need to monetize them. So I would call that almost 60 of the nla of any co-working space is going to be very similar. You might have different sized offices and everything.
Speaker 2:It's that 40 that changes from not just state to state but from suburb to cbd, because it's literally you you almost have to do and there's digital platforms out there that can help you to even like helps, map out social media profiles of all the individuals that walk into that building. What do those people want and what do we put in there. So if you take away the 60, which is all the back of hard stuff, it's almost like a restaurant, like most restaurants back of house, same. You've got your cooking stuff and everything the front of house. Okay, you've got your concierge. What kind of amenities would they prefer? Would this particular area really enjoy a very healthy front of house collaborative area where people can have informal meetings and just have a chat, and there's a kiosk barista on par there. Would this particular space because it's got a lot of creatives in there you know, artists, whether it be musicians or drawers or whatever, or even, you know, writers.
Speaker 2:Would they like some sort of quirky-looking corner where I've seen some really great spaces do it effectively, and I'm probably going to butcher the way I describe it, but it's literally a corner where there's lots of cushions and it's a blue room and they can kind of sit there and just work on your laptop and it just challenges you to think. Different law firm spaces that we've looked at you know how, about a library space? They're not physically a library, but it's tech free, it's quiet, looks a bit different from the rest of space. Go work there. So I'd say, you know, it's not just a state thing, it's. It's really who's your target audience and how do you do it what's the biggest challenge in designing and operating a co-working space?
Speaker 2:I'd say and this is this is one for everyone balancing the cool stuff, the amenity, with the financial expectation and reward. So in my job, when I do this on behalf of an investor and owner and this is getting better they want to have their cake and eat it too. It's like give me the coolest co-working space. You can Very generous on amenities and everything, oh, but you still have to make more than a market rent and that means you have to sell X amount of offices and desks and meeting spaces at a certain rate to achieve that rent. After you take away your operating costs and your staff costs, marketing, all that kind of stuff, fees.
Speaker 2:That balance is probably the hardest thing, I think, when you, when you're designing it, because it directly correlates and translates into what the floor plan looks like. We need more offices to get more money. We need less offices because there's not enough amenity, because on a spreadsheet it may look very profitable but in reality if that floor plan of that flex space or co-working space is only desks and an ant farm of them, you hypothetically could fill it, but you probably won't you know, because what are they buying aside from a desk?
Speaker 2:Where's the experience? You know even the customer journey when you walk through that floor plan. Is anyone going to enjoy feeling like they're Pac-Man right now?
Speaker 1:So Tashi is co-working the future of work, or is it just part of the?
Speaker 2:future of work. I definitely think it's part of it. I don't think it's completely the future because even when I think about how office buildings are valued, a lot of it is attached not to flexibility, but, you know, reliable rental income that you can lock in for five, 10 years at a time. So it suddenly becomes very scary if all of the office space on the market people could just decide they do not want. On a whimsical note, right, because it's on a flexible six to 12 month license or month to month. I do think it's part of the equation for sure, because it just gives large companies the confidence to lock in an office strategy, whether it's five years or 10 years. I mean, no one knows what's going to happen in five years or 10 years, so it's all crystal balling. But being able to have your traditional office strategy complemented and almost safety netted by access to flexibility and co-working, I think that's the real future. So what does that mean from a design and an experience angle? It just means that I feel like almost every building you know there's going to be some form of flex offering provided. And this is where the funny thing that I always find the definition of co-working and flex, I feel like is going to part ways in the near future and already is happening.
Speaker 2:Co-working, I think, is your very traditional.
Speaker 2:You know your WeWork, your IWG, your large, very desk-heavy layouts, which is essentially run as a business right where you re-rent a lot of desks.
Speaker 2:I think that's going to be co-working moving forward. And flex space is going to be a new term, owned and like the ownership of that term is going to be taken by landlords and office owners, because it doesn't have to be co-working that they provide to provide flexibility in their building. It could just be third space amenities, you know, bookable event spaces, meeting rooms, podcast studios or media rooms all of that kind of stuff we talked about, but cobbled together and designed in a thoughtful manner where it doesn't need the 200 desks that normally comes attached with those amenities to run a profitable business. I feel like owners are going to start realizing having flexible amenities like that is going to be a big part of their office footprint and future. Also because, from a practical sense, if you just put co-working in every single building, you know all those businesses are going to be competing with one another and cannibalizing each other's business and no one's really going to be running a profitable co-working space anymore.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll watch and see what the future holds, but for now, just to kind of close off this conversation, tashi co-working includes, but is not limited to, hot desking.
Speaker 2:Who would you most want to hot desk next?
Speaker 1:to for a day.
Speaker 2:You know that's a very unexpected, funny but great question, because now you've got my noggin working. You know what Really really random thought I'd love to hot desk next to quentin tarantino, the the film director, and just and just let him talk my ear off about you know what his last movie project's gonna be, or what his director experience has been throughout? Yeah, and the reason for that and it may not have to be him I just really admire people who are shamelessly themselves and lean into whatever they're good at and express themselves in a in a way that they've found that you know can be beneficial to society, whether it's entertainment or whatever or work, and then just do it.
Speaker 2:So I would thoroughly enjoy that. So I think I'd hot this next to him at random and that could be really inspirational for your next co-working space.
Speaker 1:I guess too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it could going space for film directors, up and coming film directors and have lots of media studios there for sure absolutely well, look.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, uh, for taking uh the time to speak to us and for taking time out of your parental leave. I know, um, you're busy at the moment looking after a six-month-old, so I really appreciate you popping down to Canberra and having a chat to us today. I've been talking to Tashi Dorji, the head of FlexSpace JLL Australasia, about Haven Workspaces, co-working spaces and the future of work. Drive carefully back to Logan, back to Sydney, and catch us next time on the Canberra Business Podcast for future episodes. I'm Greg Harper from the Canberra Business Team, but we'll talk to you soon. Cheers, thanks.