The Canberra Business Podcast
A podcast about all things Canberra Business.
The Canberra Business Podcast
Storytelling is still king in the age of digital disruption.
What does it take to build a globally competitive content company from Canberra? Michael Tear, CEO of Wildbear Entertainment, reveals the extraordinary journey from two university students with a dream to a 180-person powerhouse creating documentaries for Netflix, Disney, BBC and beyond.
The path wasn't straightforward. Starting with virtually no industry connections, Michael and co-founder Serge faced years of struggle before gaining traction. Their persistence eventually paid off, particularly after a 2014 merger that transformed their local production house into an international content creator. "It wasn't one plus one equals two," Michael explains, "it was one plus one equals ten."
The digital revolution has completely transformed how Wildbear operates. From analog beginnings to today's AI concerns, Michael shares how they've adapted by reinventing their business model every few years while preserving what matters most: storytelling craft. "Even though technology changes, the fundamental elements of making a film remain the same," he notes.
Current productions showcase their range - from documenting the War Memorial redevelopment to creating a feature on controversial former Queensland Premier Joe Bjelke-Petersen for Stan. Michael's leadership philosophy centers on alignment and talent: "Hire the smartest person and pay them as much as you possibly can - they'll add value way beyond what you imagine."
Ready to discover how persistence, adaptation and people-first leadership built one of Australia's most successful documentary companies? This conversation offers invaluable insights for creative entrepreneurs navigating today's rapidly evolving media landscape.
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast. I'm Greg Harford, your host from the Canberra Business Chamber, and today I'm joined by Michael Tier, the CEO of Wildbear Entertainment. Michael, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here. For the uninitiated, um, who is Wildbear Entertainment and what do you do?
SPEAKER_00:Wildbear is a film and television company or a content company we like to refer to ourselves. So we work primarily in documentary and factual television, um, but we also do work in corporate and uh corporate communication. Uh we're a sort of end-to-end business. So we come up with concepts, we finance films, we make films, we deliver them, and then we exploit them through our distribution business. So we're I guess we're we're broadly diversified. Um, and we operate our main our headquarters is in Canberra, but we've got subs offices in Sydney and Brisbane, um, Melbourne, and Dunedin in New Zealand.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So so you're an international company, in fact, uh, which is which is awesome, but you're locally owned?
SPEAKER_00:Locally owned. Uh I'm uh there's there's four shareholders. We have an investor and Serge, who's my original business partner from way back. We founded the company, and Tina as well. She's uh from Sydney. We merged in 2014. Originally we were called Bearcage, we're a Canberra production company, but in 2014 we merged with a bigger business, and uh that was the sort of start of our big growth spurt, I suppose. So, how did you get started in the industry? Well, Serge and I both uh met at university at the University of Canberra, and we were both studying media, and in those days it was very difficult as it is now to get a break or get an opportunity, and in our wisdom, we decided to set up our own production company so that we could employ ourselves. Uh and it was a very it was hard. I mean, it was a very slow process, it took many years to get our first few jobs through the door. Um, but I guess we're an example of persistence pays off. Uh you know, we started to get more and more work, we started to build a reputation, um, and then you know, over time we began our first, got our first employee and built the business slowly. Uh, but it was it was almost as if we we thought, you know, at the beginning we met someone who gave us a bit of career advice and he said, look, if you want to be a producer and you want to be a director, you sort of start your career in that doing that job. But you know, you can I guess there's other ways you can go, you can work yourself through the system, you can begin at a sort of an entry level. So so we we adopted that approach, and that's how you know we came to where we are today. So um how how big's the business now?
SPEAKER_01:How many people do you employ?
SPEAKER_00:Uh this month we've got 180. Um so it goes up and down because of projects. We've got a couple of large productions on, but the base level of staff is 140. Uh, and then we we scale up and scale down depending on what work we've got on at the current time.
SPEAKER_01:So, I mean that's a reasonably sizable business for Canberra, so well done on building that. But I guess um technology has changed a lot over the time that you've been running the business, and um, we're obviously in a world where um content is much more kind of democratized. Anyone with a phone effectively can film stuff. Has that posed challenges for you in in your business and what's been the implication of that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's posed challenges and opportunities. I mean, when Serge and I began in the industry, everything was analogue, it was all tape, it was all physical media, uh, and then now we're in an entirely digital business from beginning to end, and we make things in the digital format, we deliver them in uh films uh across the world digitally. Uh and also when we started, there were very few channels for distribution. Effectively, it was the free-to-air networks in Australia, so there were less opportunities internationally, much more locally focused. So, in that sort of explosion of content that's happened in my career, there's definitely been a lot of opportunities created, but we've also seen massive shifts. And you know, my view about business is that you know, we've we've sort of have to reinvent the business every three to five years because just to kind of adapt to the the environment and to meet the expectations of customers. And you know, obviously, I think one of our competitors is not just film and TV, but the the sort of attention economy, if you like. It's TikTok, it's um Facebook, it's you know, um Instagram. So, you know, we've got a lot of and gaming is obviously a thing that's you know improved vastly. But one thing that is always paramount in our business and has always been pre-eminent is is what we call story skills. Can you tell a story? Can you tell it in long form? Can you, in the case of a feature documentary, make a film with three defined acts with turning points and hooks that leave audiences hanging? Even though the technology's changed, those fundamental elements of making a film are as they've always been. And I'd like to think that in our industry we've embraced that and we've we've kept core to that mission, but we've all added a lot of tools to our palette of the way we we make things. But we can't be complacent. I mean, YouTube now is the biggest streamer of film and television in the world. Uh it means that there's lots of competition for um audience eyeballs. We we work through intermediaries, through platforms, so our clients and customers are uh the ABC or Netflix or Disney or BBC. And so we're you know, we're working with them, we're making content that we hope is going to resonate with their audiences. So it's as competitive as it's ever been, but it's also there's never been more opportunity as well.
SPEAKER_01:So, how does it work um supplying content to some of those big networks and aggregators and streamers? Are you are you coming up with the idea and then going and pitching it to them, or are they coming to you and saying we want you to make X?
SPEAKER_00:A bit of both. Um sometimes if you've got if we have a really good relationship with a platform, they might come to you and say, Look, we want something on X and we need to develop that idea up. Other times we're coming up with an original idea, and then invariably you've got a platform in mind when you when you develop the concept and you think this would be really work really well for whoever. And then it's up to us to enter to develop the idea, to present it in a way that's compelling. And and not only do you have to think about the the idea, what it is, you have to think about how much it's going to cost, how long you can take to make it, um, and package all those elements, so call it a package. Uh, it might have a particular director attached, it might have a particular access to a precinct or some other, you know, some IP, and and then package that and present that. And then it's sort of also our job to get that financed. It was more common previously that you might have a buyer that have a big checkbook and they could write a check. That's becoming less common. Uh, you do need to spend a bit more energy piecing the finance together. So that's quite a complicated process as well. Um, but that's I guess where that's what producing is. It's thinking about okay, what's a great idea, it's pulling the team together, it's identifying the talent, it's thinking about the money, it's thinking about the audience, it's thinking about what are the commercial opportunities, and it's that whole kind of rounded package that we at Wildbear specialise.
SPEAKER_01:And in terms of that financing, we've obviously there's there's pools of government money available in Australia and all over the world to support film production. Um, but how how easy is it to find private sector funding to support the work you do?
SPEAKER_00:The private sector's funding's the most challenging. I mean, there's two, I guess there's two types. There's the market funding, what we call market, and that will be a buyer who's either got a platform or a distributor who's acquiring the license or the represent the rights to to sell that film in markets. Private equity, private investment uh is is difficult. It's a high it is a high-risk business, uh, and you've got to have a pretty solid business plan. A lot of the time with a film, maybe the private equity is the part of the money. It might be that you can sort of package it up so that the investors get their money back a bit earlier than some of the other funding sources, including the producer. So you can devise packages where private equity is possible, but it's uh I think one of the challenges with film and TV and when you're talking to private investors is I think private investors like the idea of either uh you know risk and reward, maybe a high risk but potential for massive reward. A lot of the time you see in film projects the that there are you know there is upside, but it's not enormous. So, you know, you were when we're talking to investors, they might be involved in the project because they're particularly passionate about the content. They might have great faith in the creative team, they might like to enjoy the experience, uh, they might we might be able to put them in a position where the risk is lessened for them, and we must also convince the other investors in the film that that's a particularly appropriate way to go. Uh it's it's a very much an experienced game. Um you need, I think, a lot of uh a strong track record. You really have a need to have a great depth of understanding of the market, uh, and you need to be able to communicate all of those elements to your investors and make sure that they're fully aware of what they're getting involved in. Um I'm always suspicious or you know, caution-y about like any investment returns that seem too good to be true, or very inexperienced teams, or people who haven't. In the end, one of the other important things about films is you know, look at the market, what what sort of buyers are involved, uh, because that'll be a good sign about the potential of a project. I mean, there's always a remote, you know, there's always great stories about unknown projects and unknown filmmakers who pull something together and it has incredible returns and rewards. Uh, but it's a it's a rare story. It's like a lot of things, it's hard graphed, it's careful management, uh, it's a really well-structured business plan, and it's a great team that's going to deliver on the expectations of the project. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And how long does it take to pull one of these projects together? I mean, I guess it depends on the size of the thing. But I mean, um, you know, if every half hour of content that you produce, what's what's the back-end time of that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, so the we estimate our hit rate is we'd for every 10 ideas we develop, we'd probably get one financed. Uh it it can, in certain genres where we've really got a lot of expertise, you can get up to you know 30% of the ideas that you develop. So, in terms of development, you know, we like to say that uh no ideas ever abandoned because it's stories have we've developed five years ago, finally come to market and have their day. So it's a multi-year project. Uh one of the keys to success is having a slate. Like you need a multitude of ideas. It's very difficult to take one or two ideas into the market and you know hope that you're going to be successful. It's like any kind of business, it's a numbers game. You need to speak to ten buyers before you find one who's going to commit the money. So, and then in in developing a slate, what you're trying to do is look at what you know what's our strength, how do we kind of position the brand, what what does our company, what are we known for? Uh, how is is that in our wheelhouse? Because clearly it's a very extremely competitive market. Uh, and so ideas, it's not a it's not sort of like a it's not a it's not like a lightning strikes thing. I think what we're trying to do is develop ideas that fit with our wild bear brand that we're known for, but also have a unique offering and are a little bit different, and I guess offer something new. So, what's your favorite project been over the years? I mean, it it varies, uh uh, of course. Uh we we just did a um a film with Ned Brockman where he's the crazy tradie who's a bit of a social media phenomenon who ran across Australia for homelessness. And Ned's he's an extraordinary character, you know. Like he is, you know, when we got involved with the project, I realised there's actually a lot of people that have run across Australia or run from north to south. But Ned is that's quite astonishing to know in itself, actually. Exactly. But there's something about Ned, he's just he's just such a hearts-on-sleeve guy, and it's a film that surge directed my business partner, my founder. And and anyway, it's just it's it's it's so raw, it portrays Ned Wattson all, but you just can't help falling in love with the guy. But also, I look at him and I think, wow, you're an extreme character. You're you kind of carry yourself around every day, and that's that's that's not easy. So it's in that way, I think it's really insightful. And I, you know, I really love that film, I think it's great. But look, we just uh we were lucky enough to get secure a commission with the ABC to make a dock that marked the 50th anniversary of Papua New Guinea, and it was on TV just this week, and um I had the great pleasure of just sitting at home with the family and watching it, and I it I loved it, you know, and it's it's it's got it's got information that I didn't know, it's got archive from the 70s that looks astonishingly crisp and clear as if it was shot yesterday, and it's a fascinating part of our history, uh, and we you know deal with difficult topics, and it was just a great watch. So, you know, it's always a pleasure. One of the great things about my job as the CEO is that I'm kind of across everything, but not I'm wide, but not deep. So I get to sit down at the end of it and look at a show, and uh, you know, it's in always rewarding, it's always incredibly satisfying.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And is most of your product destined for Australia? I know you sell some stuff into some of the streamers, but um, what's your global impact?
SPEAKER_00:No, we're 60% of our revenues from overseas. Uh it's almost impossible, I think, to build a business in Australia that entirely focuses on our domestic market. Uh, you need it's a global business. If you if if yeah, we're we're we're in documentary and specialist factual, which are in an in a niche. So it the Australian content market's 3% of the world content market. And then within that, the specialist factual, which is what we do, it's probably about 10%. Now, if you think of that niche in Australia, it's it's minute. But if you think about that on a global scale, that's it's actually quite large. So it if you like we want to do, we want to be one of the best company in our niche. And if you're in the global game, well then you've got that opportunity. And and one of the other important things about our business is scale and volume. So you need a lot of content, you need to make things, you know, you need to output a lot of TV. We we we we release, deliver about 130, 140, 150 hours of TV a year, which is quite a lot, but that allows our teams to build their skills, uh, it allows us to find out more about audiences, it builds some economies of scale. So creative people are contrary perhaps to the cliche, a lot of them are extremely prolific. They're they're not working on one masterpiece, they're working on five or six at one time. So uh to me, you know, you've got to have a worldview. It's hard from Australia, we're a long way away, it's expensive to get to the markets and it's become more expensive since COVID. It's really noticeable, noticeable how much more it costs. Um it's one of the again, as I think harking back to the explosion of platforms, it's it's one of the great opportunities in our business that you can go overseas, you can meet buyers, they know you're from Australia, and they're prepared to listen to your pitch and commission your show if you're good enough. And is that an advantage, do you think, being Australian? We have an amazing reputation internationally. Uh everyone, there's been work done for 50 years. Some of the producers and some of the creative teams have battled. So, you know, the cliche of standing on the shoulders of giants is true. And we're build we you know, we're we're constantly trying to build on that reputation. The brand Australia is a good brand. Everyone loves the country they want to visit. Most people can't afford it or don't have the time. So uh yeah, I think we've got a we have got a great opportunity. We've got a great system of support here. Um, we've got federal and state funding. Um and because we're so far from the main markets, the main, you know, the North Atlantic market, the UK, Canada, US, Germany, France, they're the big, the big major territories, so we're a long way from that space. But I think we punch above our weight given the relative size of our country and the size of our industry. Yeah. And how much of your production is actually offshore as opposed to being here? It's all made here. All done here. Uh occasionally we'll have a shoot where we might shoot something overseas, but um, it's all made out of Australia, Australian-made. Uh and the but what we are making content for is the global market. So sometimes it's not necessarily uh recognizably Australian. We might make a history show, we might make a natural history show that doesn't look like an Australian film. So that's one thing we we I say that you know, like there's there's there's global shows and there's local shows, and often if you've got the Venn diagram where they both kind of cross over, it's actually quite rare and few. Um but if you're mindful of who you're making your shows for. I mean, we we make a lot of history for European history, and I I sometimes think, I mean, of not no foreign producer comes to Australia and does anything about Australian history. And I think that's a little bit about the Australian sensibility. We can we're a little bit more adaptable, we're a little bit less strident, we're prepared to listen, uh, we're prepared to adapt different viewpoints, and I think that stands us in good steed. Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01:Um so we touched a little bit earlier on technology and the evolving kind of things that have happened in the move from analog to a fully digital environment for for production. Um, but AI is on everyone's lips. Um what is what is the future of your industry with AI and how are you embracing those tools?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, look, I'd be unrealistic to say that it's not causing concern. Uh we're talking, we've talked to our teams and we've actually just recently engaged with them about what tools they're using and what what they're worried about. And I think there's this idea that it's going to kill creativity. And look, I think there's no doubt that it's going to alter the way we work. We're just not quite sure yet how. Uh, I still think as a documentary maker, um, you know, you're not going to be able to just entirely outsource your process. I mean, it's it's kind of an oversimplification, I think, of what's going to happen. There will obviously be some jobs where perhaps the sort of more process-driven roles may disappear. I would like to think that, well, I believe that the core of creativity will always remain. It's the human touch that would be required. So hopefully we'll get to a situation where more of the workers are doing creative work and less process work, ideally. Now, whether that will happen or not, I'm I'm not sure. But you know, and it's not just our industry, every industry is kind of grappling with this. So I think we we what we don't want to do is become some kind of rarefied art form or practice, a bit like, I mean, with all due respect to my friends in opera, opera's very rare and it's it's kind of it doesn't talk to the everyday experiences of virtually all Australians and all people. So we we need to keep that at the core of the core of our business. We need to engage with audiences, we need to we need to serve them better. We know they want higher production values, we know they want more compelling stories, they know we know they they want well-curated material that is delivered to their living room. So we've just got to keep that first and foremost. And we like every industry, we've got to do things quicker, faster, cheaper. So if we keep true to our principles and we use those as our guiding tools, and we also I think there is an obligation on us to help train our staff and help them transition. But you know, again, the idea that people wouldn't sit in an office and have a computer, I mean, you know, 20 years ago when I started, we didn't have we did literally didn't have a computer. So, you know, this this is endless, but it's it's it's clearly a it's clearly um it's a major departure and it's a major opportunity and risk. But also I think when you give everybody the same tool, like every every producer in the world is gonna have access to this technology. Um, you're okay, well, what's gonna differentiate us with everybody else? It's gonna be our human creative skills. And that that's not gonna change, if you like. It's just gonna lift the bench, the bar, higher for everybody.
SPEAKER_01:So that's a good point. And and and and what is it, do you think, now, I guess, you know, irrespective of of an AI-enabled future, but what is it now that sets wild beer apart from from others in in the industry?
SPEAKER_00:I think what is slightly different about us is I do think our international outlook is an advantage. I think we're very much engaged with lots of buyers across the world. I think that we're ambitious as a business. I mean, we we want to grow. Um we don't we don't want to make two or three bespoke little films a year. We want we want a business that has scale, uh, creates a lot of opportunities, and delivers on the expectations of customers and thrills audiences. And that's something that uh we're not taking for granted. And and I I I do believe that if you I mean it's it's it's marrying that sort of creative expertise and a really sound business plan and a business strategy, uh, which probably sounds obvious, but some maybe sometimes is not almost, you know. People may prioritize one over the other. And I think I think it's just that rare brick combination of people. When when we merged our businesses, we had Bearcage and Wild Fury, you know, it wasn't one and one equals two, it was one and one equals ten. You know, the business grew six or sevenfold. And I think it's just that chemistry of bringing those elements together.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um now, as uh obviously an exporter of of services from the ACT, um, more than products, um can I ask you about sort of accessing those international markets? I mean, what's been what's been the the trick to kind of get in the door? Because the uh the world's a big place, the entertainment industry is a big place. Um how have you managed to sort of get through uh and talk to some of those international customers?
SPEAKER_00:We do go to markets, uh, and there's lots of them, so we're careful and selective about the ones that we do. Uh and then I think the other thing is that you you show up every market with a new slate and you just never give up. And one of the things that buyers are going to, you know, you need to be a regular fixture, they need to see your face. We obviously stay in touch via Zoom and you know, in contact with them, but I think if it's about your physical presence, um we were always intrigued by what was happening overseas, we always were looking for those opportunities. It was kind of in our I don't know, Serge was a grew up as a diplomat, my dad was in the army, we travelled everywhere, we're very outward-looking people. So I think that kind of that natural curiosity fueled our ambition, and I think that's the main thing. It's it's look, it's not easy. It's a bit glib to say, you know, just go out there and and you know make yourself present. But you know, I think one of the things is if you if your shows are really good, you've got something unique, you've got a great creative product, if you've got those sort of baselines, well then you know, certainly you should be thinking about the international market and and don't necessarily only pref preference the domestic market. Yeah. But it comes down, you think, to a to a presence and building those relationships. Building the relationships. And it takes years. It really does take years. And you know, once you get an opportunity, um So you know, one of the first few things we did, we actually almost I don't even think we might we might have the production costs might have been more than what we what we got uh what we got from the commission. But the thing that we thought was well, okay, we could spend a lot of money marketing, and this will be a great marketing opportunity. So we saw a lot of those um costs as an opportunity and a marketing expense to build a business long term, and and I think that that worked as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, cool. So what's next for Wild Beer Entertainment? Um any exciting projects in the pipeline? There are.
SPEAKER_00:Um there's a we're underway, we've produced stuff the British style season one and two, and season three is in production now. Uh, we've got a a major series, four-part series on the redevelopment of the war memorial that'll be on SPS. That'll come out uh early next year. We're doing a a series about the High Court, the sort of landmark cases that shaped Australia. Um and so you know, there they're some of the big projects that are on the pipeline. And we've just we just delivered um a feature doc for Stan on Joe Bielcki Peterson, which was a I mean, again, it was just a fascinating story. I mean, I grew up in that era, so I'm I'm really mindful of Joe. But it's astonishing, so many younger people had no idea, they didn't know anything about him, no, completely unaware that this guy existed. And I sat down and watched it with my kids, and they were I mean, they were gobsmacked at some of the capers. And but it's a it's a quite it's quite a balanced film. It looks at, you know, I guess he's he's obviously a conservative, and we he's got fans and haters, and we give everyone a chance to say, but he's a you know, he's a remarkable political figure. So uh it's worth checking out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'll do I'll do that. Um, and I guess just to close, Michael, um you know, business can be can be challenging. What's your biggest challenge in running the business? And and if you had a magic wand, what what would you wave to to make happen?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean it's I guess the the biggest challenge, it's it's it's alignment. It's getting everyone to see and pull in the same direction. Um and I and and that's um that's particularly you know when we started we all at what at Bear Cage we all sit in a room and I could see everybody. But now we're all over the country with some of us overseas, we've got you know agents in the UK and Spain. It's it's actually trying to get everyone kind of agreeing and put in the same direction. And that's not because that they're not ambitious or they don't want to do a great job. It's just it's so hard with people on different time zones and it seems great but it's really it's really hard to keep keep the focus on the prize. So what's the trick? How have you how are you working to make that happen? I think what we're doing is you know one just at the core of what we do incredibly respectful of the creative process. We we we do and aim to be a people focused you know we say people before projects. I mean great projects come from great people so if we if we have the right mindset and we demonstrate that meaningfully on a daily basis I think I think we're going to we do quite well and look the business does I mean given this given what where we reach how much we make who the audiences are who our buyers are I think it I think it's quite a remarkable story. And sometimes I I think back 25 years ago I just I don't think I even could have imagined the business the way it is and that's that's not about me as the CEO or Serge as the founder. As you as your business grows you find being a founder is less important. It's about the team that you bring around you and and we've got an amazing team and that's one of the great opportunities when you build a business and you start to get scale you can hire smart people. If I'd have could live my whole career again I would always hire the smartest person and pay them as much as I possibly could because my experience is that they are going to add value way beyond what you can imagine. And that's that's not about preferencing skills it's just about the the value of the the empowering value the exponential value of creating a team and building a structure.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely some wise advice there thank you probably for everyone in the business community. So um uh Michael Tier the CEO of Wildware Entertainment thank you so much for joining me here on the Canberra Business podcast today uh it's been great to have a chat um and uh we'll look out for your next uh next uh series um coming out and I'll go and check out Joby LQ Peterson in the in the meantime but um thank you so much for joining us uh it's been great having you here thanks Greg um uh don't forget to uh check us out and and follow us on your favorite podcast platform for future episodes of the Canberra Business Podcast uh and I'll catch you next time thank you