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The Canberra Business Podcast
A podcast about all things Canberra Business.
The Canberra Business Podcast
How a Canberra Startup Became a Defence Tech Leader
A Canberra success story meets global scale: Greg sits down with Sarah Bailey, Group Executive Director and CEO Australia at Penten Amio, to unpack how a startup founded by 11 local families became a trusted partner to the Five Eyes. From secure communications that enable classified access anywhere to AI powering electronic warfare decoys, we get inside the technology, the strategy, and the people behind a binational mission.
Sarah walks us through the merger of Pen10 and AMIOsec—why it felt like a natural conclusion after years of co-developing tech, how the combined team brought Australian innovations like Trap Radio and HLX to DSEI in London, and why scale opens doors in markets like Canada. We also get a candid look at the mechanics of complex deals: multiple shareholders, new financing, and navigating national security investment rules across two countries without losing momentum or mission clarity.
The conversation zooms out to a fast-changing cybersecurity landscape where phishing is disturbingly convincing and every organization—not just defence—needs to treat cyber as a whole-of-business responsibility. Sarah offers practical guidance leaders can act on now: build secure-by-default systems, train with real-world examples, and normalize open dialogue about risk. We close on leadership—how words shape work, why values alignment matters, and what it feels like to be the only woman in the room when ideas land differently depending on who talks about them. It’s an honest, grounded look at building resilient tech, cohesive culture, and steady leadership across time zones and turbulent headlines.
If you enjoy thoughtful conversations on defence technology, cybersecurity, AI in electronic warfare, and real-world leadership, follow the show, share with a colleague, and leave a quick review to help others discover the pod.
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast. I'm Greg Harford, your host from the Canberra Business Chamber, and I'm delighted to be joined today by Sarah Bailey, who's the Group Executive Director and CEO of Australia for Pen 10 AMEO. Sarah, welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_01:Now look, it's it's great to have you here. Pen 10 was a Canberra business that's grown and expanded and merged with a UK company. So tell us uh about Pen 10 AMIO and and what is it that you do?
SPEAKER_00:We are a business of 300 people in Australia and the UK, focusing on some of the most complicated challenges of government and defence. Our customers are obviously the governments of of both the UK and Australia as our primary markets, but of course FiveEyes governments and and other allies.
SPEAKER_01:So what sort of products and services do you provide?
SPEAKER_00:So the the biggest part of the Pantanamio business is our secure communications business line. It effectively supports government and defence users to be able to access classified information in a way that's appropriate from a security perspective for defence and government customers. I'll talk about some of our products shortly, but um but you can imagine that the way in which we all access and need to use information, and which is also obviously the same for government and defence workers, the ability to access the information they need at any point in any place in a way that is appropriate for security is incredibly important, and that's the primary area of the business of Pentanamio. In addition to that, though, we have actually had a long-standing artificial intelligence business line. In fact, the team has been around for more than eight years, again, focusing on the application of AI and machine learning to a range of government and defence challenges, one of which, particularly, is in the evolution of electronic warfare and the application of machine learning, particularly to decoys in that environment. But again, as you can imagine, there's a range of different AI applications that government and defence are contemplating, and so we are certainly at the forefront supporting them in the application of AI. So they're the major parts of the business of Pentanamio across AU and UK. We've got other components of our business like innovation services, where we've got a bunch of incredibly talented engineers that are uh working with our customers on um a range of different really complicated technical challenges, and we do do so in a way that's really you know quite in a deep sort of partnership with our with our customers. So that's that's the that's the major part of the business of Pen Mio.
SPEAKER_01:So where did the business come from? Um you've been involved with Pen 10 here in Canberra for a while. Um how did how did that business begin and what was your involvement?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so the business actually started, the Pen 10 business started actually in 2014 with 11 local families. Um I think it's a wonderful success story, one of many actually coming out of Canberra. Uh, and it started with um those 11 families, or certainly 11 representatives from those families, coming together, uh contemplating the next wave of technical challenges that government defence would be facing. Um there we've grown to, as I said, sort of you know close to 300 people. At the same time that Pen 10 started in Australia and in Canberra, AMIOSec in the UK started at roughly the same point in time. And in fact, the founders of Pen 10 and the founders of AMIOSec actually had worked together in different guises prior to the establishment of both those businesses. So there was a really good understanding and and um common desire or sorry, a desire to deal with common problems of government and defence. Um I think it's a you know it's a really, really good uh Canberra good news story. I love talking about the fact that some of the world's um best technologies in our space has been generated from ultimately these 11 families. I started with what was Pen 10 back in 2018, and I started in the role of the CFO. I think I might have been person 37 of Pen 10 at that stage. Um, and it was just honestly just really fun. It was absolutely rolling our sleeves up, we were growing really quite significantly, um, and and bringing, I suppose, some of my background in the context of much larger organizations and the way in which we need to think about scaling in a sustainable, structured way, was certainly what I contributed and still do contribute to the business. I joined the board of what was Pen 10 back in 2019 and and then have been working with uh the business obviously on the strategy for growth and then of course led the merger between Pen 10 and AMIOSec. We'd always had a desire to bring the business together uh simply because of that common um the common outlook of the problems we were solving. Uh we actually co-developed a range of technologies over the existence of both businesses, obviously under commercial constructs, and so been able to now be part of the same uh broader family with AMIOSec is is you know genuinely fantastic. So we only completed that transaction just back in in April of this year, uh, but it's been one of the most natural mergers I've ever been involved in because of that long history together.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So it was really just about bringing um you know the logical conclusion of working together together. Is that is that what drove the the merger? Why why not stay in a separate kind of commercial relationship?
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's a great question. And I'll give you some examples of effectively the synergies of bringing the businesses together. Actually, in Australia, we've we've developed a range of other technologies that are not in the UK, and so the merger creates a bigger platform for growth whereby we can actually bring the full offering of what was Pen 10 and what was AMIOSEC to our customer set. So, for example, in Australia we have developed two products in particular called Trap Radio and HLX, and just recently, just in September, there was a really large defence trade show called DSEI in London. And so Pentan Ameo had a stand there, and of course, we were able to bring and demonstrate Trap Radio and HLX to DSEI. And what it meant was that the Ministry of Defence in the UK, for instance, was able to see for the first time these technologies that are part of the Pentan AMO offering now, but of course were developed and had their you know had their genesis back in Australia. So being able to bring um the entirety of the offering to both our primary markets has been really fantastic. So it's sort of um, you know, the sum of the parts um, you know, the or the whole is greater than the sum of the parts in that example. And so it wasn't just a complementary uh merger, but again, it's a it's created a much bigger platform for growth. Um one of the things as well that we've found since the merger, and of course, reflects some of the geopolitical changes that we're we read about every day in the newspaper, um, but new markets are opening up, particularly for us as a larger offering, and so can the Canadian government, for instance, is an incredibly interesting opportunity for us at the moment, and I do believe that in fact uh the larger scale of Pentanamio is helping to open up opportunities like the Canadian government.
SPEAKER_01:Now, bringing any two companies together in a merger is always always a challenge at the best of times, although in this case you obviously had a really good relationship and it kind of kind of went smoothly. But what were the big the big challenges in terms of bringing teams together from opposite sides of the world?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so the transaction in and of itself was somewhat complicated. We had quite a diverse group of different stakeholders, and they include different shareholding groups on both sides of the globe. We introduced a new financier into the equation. Uh, we had to navigate through government approvals both in Australia and the UK, and the UK in fact has changed its national security investment laws just over the last um year or two, and so navigating through a reasonably new process extended the time period at which the transaction took, which is completely completely fine, obviously, for the for both governments to assess the transaction. But what it meant was that we had a range of different stakeholders that we had to sort of manage through through the entirety of the transaction whilst keeping it obviously super tight amongst a core group of people. So the transaction in itself was somewhat complicated and elongated, but um but we're we're there now. In terms of the teams, though, in the merger, I mean there are really practical things that make the merging a bit uh more challenging, and they're simple things like time differences. So the clocks are about to change again in the UK, and so the the time at which we have an overlapping part of the day, certainly for the Australian team, is mostly in the evenings, and and obviously in the UK it's mostly in the mornings, and and that does create challenges where you know that can get really tiring for people. Uh I was even talking yesterday with some colleagues about the benefit of just actually face-to-face interaction, and it's a really interesting thing post-COVID where we're also used to working in a way that is um you know really quite virtual. However, the benefit of face-to-face interaction and the ability to work through and brainstorm through different sorts of opportunities and challenges and work processes, whatever it happens to be, the benefits are really significant. Uh, and so for us then thinking through right, well, how many people do we send over to the UK? How many people come back to Australia? How do we make sure that we do that in a really effective way? Um, now that so that's a somewhat simple challenge. Um, you mentioned culture. One of the things that I have certainly felt through the merger of Penton and Amyosec is that culturally we've actually been incredibly aligned. Other than you know, some of the generic differences perhaps between uh Aussies and Brits, which we tend to joke about actually in a in a uh respectful way. Actually, culturally, we've found the merging really quite I was going to say straightforward, that's not the right word, but really quite seamless. The reason being we've all have a very um deep understanding of our mission, and it is a common mission that both companies had prior to the merging, which is ultimately to protect those that protect us. I mentioned the geopolitical challenges and and how dynamic that is for all of us. And so, in that regard, it's actually been really quite powerful to have our team of 300 focus on the things that are genuinely important for us to support our customers in the things that they are doing that are incredibly important to all of us that get to enjoy you know living in this country and certainly our colleagues in the UK. So, in that regard, having a really common and very strong mission and vision has certainly been a guiding light culturally.
SPEAKER_01:So, what do you think are the biggest issues in cybersecurity right now?
SPEAKER_00:So I think the biggest issues is uh the threat landscape is evolving so quickly and in such a sophisticated way. Um I know, even just from a personal perspective, so unrelated to Pentanamio, I had a phishing email the other day from my bank uh and it was really good. It was really, really good. I so much so that I took it and showed a couple of my colleagues at work, and we were all, I'm not gonna say impressed, um perhaps a little bit worried about genuinely how good it was. And so what we're seeing is that the cybersecurity environment and the threat environment is genuinely improving and becoming more and more sophisticated, which just means that uh the challenges that we all have as individuals or as organizations or as governments, um, it it is um it is not a um an even playing field, it's not static. And so that's probably one of the single biggest challenges is is is honestly in some respects keeping up.
SPEAKER_01:Now, obviously, you you're focused very much on um uh your your customers in the defence space. But do you think there are bigger issues in the business community more generally around cybersecurity? What advice would you have for um uh perhaps a non-defense related business um thinking, or what are what do I need to be worrying about in the cyberspace?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh so the the challenges are genuinely quite extensive, and so for businesses not in defence or national security environments, in fact, we all have an incredibly important role to play. Um I think uh we need to acknowledge that cybersecurity is not only the domain of IT teams in in organizations. It is a thing that all of us as individuals and as businesses need to really think about quite carefully because of the risk that it does pose. Um we've all seen recently uh Qantas is a really large organization, the way in which they've been uh compromised through their call centre and then the impact of that. And and so you know it is it is a thing that everybody needs to genuinely be curious about, to understand, and to have quite an open dialogue about uh the protections that we all need to put in place, again, as organizations and individuals. I think the more that we have an open dialogue about the threat environment, but actually in a way that's constructive and positive about the things that we can all put in place to make sure that we're protecting our organizations and our and our uh our people, our communities, uh, I think is I think is really genuinely important. And that's absolutely not just for defence and national security companies, that actually that is for all of us.
SPEAKER_01:So jumping back to kind of questions of leadership and business leadership, um you know you've obviously had a had a long uh career at at Pentanameo now. Uh what's what's sort of the biggest leadership lesson you've learned along your journey?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like I've learned quite a few lessons along the way, I have to say. Um one of the biggest ones that I do often reflect on, and it's a little bit dated now, this is this predates Pentan Ameo, or certainly even Pen 10. Um, one of the things I I had to learn quite early on is we actually all have different motivations. And so while I have my own values and ethics and motivations I'll bring to any circumstance, um, it's quite it's sometimes can be really hard to learn that others just simply don't share those same values or ethics. But that that's okay, that's for that person and them to get about in the way that's appropriate for them. It can make certain situations challenging when you're trying to work through, be it a business topic or a conversation, and you're trying to work out what's motivating someone in the way in which they're interacting with you. Um, and the lesson being though, that I you can't I can't control other individuals, I can't control um, and nor should I dare want to, um, but then managing the impact on me when you have got that clash of values and ethics is is honestly it's it's a really tough thing to learn. I certainly found that, in fact, actually, after having my kids and returning to the workplace, uh, which you know has a whole range of different complications to it from time to time, and then having other people effectively try and put their own views on how they thought I should be doing my career and life, etc. etc., was really quite confronting and really challenging to work through. I think um I think you know, with experience and age, um uh I think it's a it's certainly a lesson I'm continuing to learn is the things that I can control and the things I can't, and actually just being proud of how I conduct myself. I can't, I can't, I cannot control others. So that's been um, and again, it's sort of in the workplace, but probably just a life lesson uh more broadly. Um yeah, I mean, look, there's lots and lots of other lessons. I was reflecting actually just just yesterday with someone at work. I uh I made a comment last week to to someone, we were talking about a particular topic, and I said, Oh, that that's interesting. And three days later, uh I um heard that this person that I'd been speaking to had done a huge amount of work on this topic that I had said was interesting, and came back and said, Oh Sarah, I've done all this analysis, and here's here's this thing that you wanted. And and I I really had to pause and reflect because I I didn't feel I'd asked for a thing. I just said this particular thing was interesting. And so my reflection there is to go, oh gosh, words matter, and I think particularly in roles that people hold, I I know I've got to be really careful about um how I communicate with people because I hadn't intended for this person to do a whole bunch of work. I genuinely just meant it as, oh, that's interesting. And so, even just that I mean, that's a a current learning in my new role and just making sure that I um am communicating in a way that's actually really effective for others, not just for me. Um, so that's been that's an interesting learning.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and really good to be aware of, right? Because um no one wants to be creating extra work unintentionally. That's enough to do in most organisations. That's absolutely right. Do you think um leadership is different for women?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I do. Um yes, I do, and it's for lots and lots and lots of reasons, some of which will be subconscious, where people will deal and interact with me differently than a male colleague. Um I think that um uh there are lots of general contributors. I think because of the experiences that many women will have had, and statistically, we know there's a range of experiences that any woman in any room brings to the table. Um, and so even those experiences will shape the way in which she feels in a meeting and the way in which others may or may not interact with her. Um there are classic things where, and again, I I have an example from literally only two weeks ago where I was in a meeting with a range of people. I happen to be the only woman in this particular meeting, which is is is absolutely fine, and I'm very used to that, I have to say. Um, and I made a point about the particular um topic of the meeting, and the conversation went on, and then uh a guy then made exactly the same point, and the room went, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's that's a good point. And I was like, What's going on here? This is because it actually doesn't happen that often. Um, and then another guy made the same, sort of re-reiterated the same point, everyone's like, Yeah, great points, guys. And and I just was like, what is going on that this circumstance that we've we've um you know many times heard of is still happening. And um, you know, there's things like that that you go, gosh, that's a different experience. I'm I'm probably reasonably alive to it. I suspect that everyone else in that room might won't have, if I if I'd replayed it to them, they won't have realized uh what I felt had happened. Um so yeah, in that regard, I do think it's a different experience. I do think that uh oftentimes um you know women need to really put themselves out there much more so. Um I think um I think we've got an extraordinary role to play in leadership in whatever environment that is. But also too, do men. I just I just think that we should be celebrating all types of leadership. I'd I would love to see um you know more female leaders of particularly our really large organisations from a business perspective. I'm super pleased to see the number of women leading our, particularly our some of our national security agencies and defence organisations, I think is absolutely wonderful. And again, is it is a really good uh illustration of in lots of different environments the role that women can play in leadership. But yes, to answer your question, do I think it's a different experience? Yes, I do think it is a different experience, um, but I'm not going to let that stop me, and I and I hope that even women looking at me and my own experiences that they too go, well, if Sarah can do it, I can absolutely do it.
SPEAKER_01:Excellent. Well, on that note, Sarah Bailey uh from Pentian AMO, thank you so much for joining us on the Canberra Business Podcast. It's been great to learn a little bit more about uh the business, the merger, and indeed uh your experiences as a leader.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_01:Uh we'll catch you next time on the Canberra Business Podcast. Um, don't forget to follow us on your favourite podcast platform for future episodes. Thanks very much.