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The Canberra Business Podcast
A podcast about all things Canberra Business.
The Canberra Business Podcast
What If Inclusion Is The Smartest Business Strategy
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Tired of hearing that inclusive hiring is “too hard” or “too costly”? We sat down with Jigsaw Australia’s Canberra hub manager, Lucas Tyson, to unpack a model that proves otherwise: real workplace training through digitising projects, award wages from day one, and structured support that makes placements stick. This is a ground-level look at how to turn paperwork backlogs into purposeful work and transform hesitation into confident hiring.
We walk through how Jigsaw blends an NDIS-backed mission with a social enterprise engine, giving participants hands-on experience while delivering reliable results to councils, schools, and businesses. Lucas explains why paying award wages is non-negotiable, how loyalty and focus show up on the job, and where part-time pathways help people build stamina without overwhelming teams. You’ll hear exactly how their support scales—from pre-start education for supervisors to on-the-job coaching—and why that approach helps managers overcome the fear of added workload.
We also demystify job carving, with practical examples of tasks that boost team productivity: data entry, report prep, online research, and records management. As technology evolves, we tackle the AI question head-on—how to train people to use basic AI tools to speed up workflows while keeping human judgment at the center. Lucas shares where placements are growing across government and private sectors, what Canberra’s disability employment targets look like in practice, and how new programs like Inclusive Employment Australia open the door with wage subsidies and real guidance.
If you lead a team or advise hiring managers, this conversation gives you the playbook: educate your leaders, design roles around strengths, and partner with experts who stand beside you through the transition. Ready to see how inclusive employment can be both ethical and efficient? Follow the show, share this episode with a colleague, and leave a review with the one role you’d carve first—we’d love to hear what you’d try next.
Meet Jigsaw And Its Mission
SPEAKER_01Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast. I'm your host, Greg Harford from the Canberra Business Chamber, and today I'm joined by Lucas Tyson, the Hub Manager for Canberra of Jigsaw Australia. Lucas, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. Look, great to have you here and great to learn a little bit more about Jigsaw. So for our audience who perhaps might not know who you are, what is it that Jigsaw does and how are you structured?
How The Social Enterprise Works
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so Jigsaw has uh has many hats. Uh we're an NDIS provider, uh non-for-profit charity who's also a social business. Um we work with individuals with a disability to get them into the employment pipeline, and we do that by educating them with workplace transferable skills and then giving them a real life work experience within a working environment. Um, and that working environment is digitalization. So we try and work with businesses, councils, schools, um, and in their old uh back shed where they've got all their paperwork, uh try and collect that from them and and create a social business through digitalizing.
SPEAKER_01So you you're you're digitizing records that exist, and and that's where your people are are primarily working?
Paying Award Wages And Why It Matters
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so that's where they've gained that work experience in the work environment. Um if we uh with the success of that social business, we are then able to provide um our individuals, our participants with um award wage um pay. Um and then while we're doing that, looking for further employment in um in open employment or mainstream employment, however.
SPEAKER_01So you touch on an interesting point about um award rate pay, because it's right, isn't it, that often people with disabilities are not necessarily paid award rates?
SPEAKER_00That's correct, yeah. Um, and that is a big focus from um us, but from um uh the co co-founders um and and from our overarching organization as well.
National Hubs And Fighting Chance
SPEAKER_01Oh now you talk about your overarching organization, so you're part of a group, is that right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so Canberra is um one in five hubs, um, the others being Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, Adelaide, and us. Um and Jigsaw itself has been going for 11 years, um, starting in Sydney. Um we are, however, uh one of four enterprises under the Fighting Chance banner, um, the others being Base Avenue and Plus. And again, they're all working with people with a disability. Fighting Chance was started um by a brother and sister who had a brother with a disability, um, and it was that school leaving um stage uh where all services kind of ceased and they built an organization to support him.
SPEAKER_01Um and is that where your services are focused? Is it is it very much at that school level level?
Who Jigsaw Serves And Age Mix
SPEAKER_00Um I'd love to say yeah it is, or or or yeah. Uh um, however, within the Canberra hub, um we've probably our average age is about 26. Um, it is just supporting them in terms of developing work skills that they can um take that into the to open employment.
SPEAKER_01Now jigsaw is a social enterprise, so how do you how do you measure your success, uh I guess, and how is that different to a traditional business?
SPEAKER_00Um so the success comes from um how well we go through our contracts and then how well we are able to provide award wages um to our what we call trainees.
SPEAKER_01And how successful are you at getting people through the door, getting them trained up and into the workforce?
Employer Hesitations And Myths
SPEAKER_00Um I will be honest, and and we can always be better. Um however, those that we have um put into employment, um we have a 60% rate of after 12 months they're still in open employment. Um but the goal is finding businesses. Um the difficulty is finding businesses to take on people with a disability.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So what sort of response are you getting when you're going out and talking to businesses? Um, what what are the barriers? Why why are people hesitant?
Education And On-The-Job Support
SPEAKER_00Um I I think, and I'm probably paraphrasing, but I think there is a definite fear of we're going to have to spend a lot more time with um people with a disability, we're gonna have to give a lot more support, um, and therefore that will give um will take up a lot more resources within a business.
SPEAKER_01And do you think that fear is justified?
SPEAKER_00Um I mean how do how do we it's justified without education um and and without support from organisations like ourselves?
SPEAKER_01So once you've put someone into a role, um how much on-the-ground support are you providing? Are you working alongside them or with with them rather to provide ongoing support?
Part-Time Paths And Flexibility
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so even before they've started with the employer, um, we will um work with the employer to educate, um whether it's the supervisor or the department that that person's going to be working in on their disability and and also how best to work, um, you know, how best the work environment needs to be for this person to succeed. Um, and then we offer yeah, on-the-job support. And that may be last for two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, depending on the participant, um, daily, like every time that person works. Um, and then we'll scale that back to catch-ups weekly, catch-ups monthly, fortnightly, whatever it might be. And I say when that person may work because I think that's another misunderstanding for businesses in terms of a lot of the participants I work with, um, they're not looking for full-time work, um, and then they're just looking to get into the workforce. So permanent work we call it, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And and do you think that's a headache for businesses themselves? That that, you know, sometimes managers might be looking and thinking, I've got a role, I've got to fill, I need a full-time person for that. I don't want to be mucking around with lots of part-timers.
The Business Case To CEOs
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, um I I can see their concerns, I definitely can. Um, but I see also see the benefits um of having like an individual for say two days uh through the week.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and obviously that depends very much on the role on the business and on on particular particular needs. Yeah. Um, so if you if you were sitting down with a chief executive um and you were trying to uh convince them to take on some um people with disabilities, what would be the business case that you'd put to them?
SPEAKER_00Um I mean it's kind of what I have been doing of late, um be it CEOs or or government, so private or public sector. Um and it's just in terms of um the skill set that our individuals, um our participants have, um we focus heavily on digital, so administration, um, and their um focus while doing their work um is is uh uh something to behold. Um the other like we we um their loyalty to the organization um while we're looking for people to get open employment for, we're we're asking them, like, where would you like to work? And they're like, we love jigsaw. And and while yes, we're a great place to be at, um their loyalty to us or to to whoever employs them um is is second to none. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and that's not to be sneezed at on the standards.
SPEAKER_00And you know, I don't I yeah, they're they're not um they're not hunting the big next paycheck, um, they're not um you know um trying to get the next big title, um, they're wanting to work in a safe um environment that uh shows that they need them and that and um that they have purpose within that.
SPEAKER_01So obviously disabilities come in all sorts of shape and form. What are the major sort of disabilities that your clients are grappling with?
SPEAKER_00Um it's definitely um the neurodiverse and working um in terms of how to um understand their limitations. Um we do have a few um uh physical disabilities, but the majority are neurodiverse, and there's other um, including but not limited to mental health concerns as well in and around that.
SPEAKER_01So, how do you think mainstream businesses can integrate inclusive practices without that being seen as extra work for the businesses?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean it is linking with um organizations like ours to job carve around what um what these individuals are capable of, um, and then having us um kind of educate and support both the organization but also the the participant um within these businesses. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Now I I've spoken to other people who have talked about job carving, but that might be a term that's not familiar to anyone listening here. So uh so what does it mean?
Tasks Suited To Participants
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh well, I hope I do it justice um for those who have said it uh prior to me. But um it is essentially um looking at someone's job and determining what we can take away from their job and and like put it with this individual, uh, a particular individual. Um for instance, um uh a band one in a government who does a lot of administration work is taking that the the low low skill for a better word, administration task away from that person and giving that to one of our participants. Um and so therefore that um band one employee can focus on more strategic and not have to worry about that administration. It's uh potentially from our point of view, it's it's data entering, um, it's writing up um reports, it's researching online. Um yeah.
Technology, AI, And Skills
SPEAKER_01So as um technology evolves, um how do you how do you see it impacting disability employment?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so this has been a um within recent conversations and and AI obviously uh comes up uh in terms of we're trying to position ourselves within the administration space. Um and I see it as both a benefit and and it could hinder us. It just depends on how we push forward with it. Um my hope is that we can then educate if we're just using AI as an example, um, our trainees on on how to utilize that in in its true basic form, um, so that they're still um learning and and being able to offer a skill um that is useful out in the workplace.
Where Placements Happen: Gov And Private
SPEAKER_01You've talked a bit about government and um some of those lower sort of APS grades that might be there. Um do you do you place a lot of people with government or how how many how many sort of with government versus with private businesses?
SPEAKER_00No, so I mean our um two biggest uh employers at the moment are Alliance in Sydney and um the Sydney Opera House. Um and that's in one's in claims and the others um throughout the Sydney Opera House in a number of roles. Um late last year um I attended one of the Canberra business lunches um with Andrew Barr uh stating our two biggest employers in Canberra um were government and uh universities. Um and I would be silly not to try and tap into our biggest employer here in the ACT.
Government Targets And Practicality
SPEAKER_01Is government doing enough, do you think, to be accessible to those those uh people with disabilities of the workforce?
Private Sector Pledges And Support
SPEAKER_00Um yes and no. Um yes, in terms of they do have a nine percent um target um that they've um uh local government um that they're throwing around. Um in terms of what that looks like, the practicality of it, um, that's where my probably no answer comes into place. And um we want to be at the forefront of okay, well, let's be that practical resource for you. Um let's work together in and around how we um increase that percentage uh within government, um, but also then how we can also push that to um private business.
SPEAKER_01And in terms of private business, um the Canberra Business Chamber, as you know, is running a program around um skills and inclusion. We're we're asking businesses to sign up to a pledge on disability employment and to put in place a disability action plan um in their businesses. Um what more can the private sector be doing to help in this space?
New IEA Program And Subsidies
SPEAKER_00Um I think look from our point of view, our doors are always open. Um and we're always open for a uh conversation or come for a tour of what we do. Um but it's probably around educating themselves around um what the benefits are, um, but also um from a financial point of view, yeah, what the benefits are. Um I think maybe what sometimes can scare them off is that award wage and and the pricing scheme. Um but that's something that you know our organization is is looking to work with, um not against um businesses, private businesses especially.
SPEAKER_01Uh and and there is support available, right, for private businesses who are needing to make adjustments in the workplace.
Education First: Changing Mindsets
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um I suppose a good plug for our um new IEA program, which is inclusive uh employment Australia, um, it replacing the um DES, the old DES model, and yes, there are um wage subsidies that can be applied for. Um Canberra has uh been given a contract for the next five years uh and for us it's for 25 years and under. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01So if you could redesign the employment ecosystem in Australia, you know, take a blank piece of paper, wave a magic wand, what would be your first priority?
SPEAKER_00Um I do think it's educating people around um the benefits of employing people with a disability. Um I think to have that knowledge and that understanding um allows people to be more open to the concept.
SPEAKER_01Do you think there are regional differences in the way employers look at this issue? Um, you know, here in Canberra we're a relatively progressive jurisdiction. Most people I talk to are wanting to do the right thing and keen to be supportive. Is that is that an experience that you see elsewhere in the country?
SPEAKER_00Um Yeah, I mean major cities definitely um are a lot more open to um and even um Canberra um with the progressiveness here, um it's again if if businesses are not aware of how to implement it. Um my experience is is they're slightly fearful of it. Um so it's it's our like Jigsaw's job um to get into businesses and get into their ear about um the benefits of um hiring people with a disability.
How To Contact Jigsaw
SPEAKER_01So Lucas, if people want to know more or want to get in touch with Jigsaw, how do we how do we do that?
SPEAKER_00Um the best option is uh to um look us up on the website um jigsaw. Uh there is a phone number that um like a switchboard that links us to either Canberra or um uh any of the other four. Um or we can email and it's uh cell.cambra at jigsawastralia.com.au.
SPEAKER_01Sorry, jigsaw Australia.com.au's website and people can get in touch there. Yep. Yeah. Excellent. All right, well, Lucas Tyson, um hub manager of Jigsaw Australia, thank you so much for joining me on the Canberra Business Podcast today. Um always good to chat about um uh employing uh people with disabilities and how we can close some of those gaps. Um just to close off, uh you know, if you if you had one message to get out to the business community, what would it be?
Final Message And Closing
SPEAKER_00Um learn more about disability employment. Um, and we're very open uh to provide that information and and that education. So reach out.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. Lucas, thank you so much for joining me here on the podcast. Um I'm Greg Harford, your host from the Canberra Business Chamber. Uh, this is the Canberra Business Podcast, and I've been talking to Lucas Tyson, the hub manager of uh Jigsaw Australia, right here in the nation's capital. Uh, don't forget, uh, we've got lots. Of resources on our website at Canberra Business.com to help you on your skills and inclusion journey. And don't forget to follow us on your favourite podcast platform for future episodes of the Canberra Business Podcast. We'll catch you next time.