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The Skill of Voice in Leadership
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Your leadership decisions don’t get to wait for calm weather. When the economy tightens, uncertainty rises, and everyone feels the strain, the real question becomes: how do we stay clear, human, and effective while we’re still in the storm?
We sit down with Micah Brill from Zeitgeist Leadership Journeys to talk about modern leadership development and organisational development through the lens of complexity. Micah shares why today’s leaders need to understand their triggers, their stress responses, and even their “shadows” that can surface in challenging moments. We unpack resilience in a practical way, using her preferred term psychological flexibility: learning to accept what’s happening, create a little distance from emotion, and act from values when you don’t have all the answers. Micah connects this to Viktor Frankl’s idea that between stimulus and response there is a space, and that space is where better leadership lives.
Then we move into a surprising but powerful leadership tool: your voice. Micah explains vocal presence as a trainable skill that shapes trust, connection, and impact in meetings, pitches, and public speaking. We explore pitch, tempo, pauses, and why trying to sound “perfect” can actually disconnect you from your audience. We also talk accents and second language confidence, plus a new at home voice training approach that measures key voice elements before and after a five week program to help founders, entrepreneurs, and students make their ideas land.
If you care about executive presence, resilient leadership, and communication that connects, hit subscribe, share this with a colleague, and leave a review with the one voice habit you want to improve.
Welcome And Meet Micah Brill
SPEAKER_00Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast. I'm Greg Harford, your host from the Canberra Business Chamber, and I'm joined today by Micah Brill from Zeitgeist Leadership Journeys. Micah works on leadership, organizational development, and vocal presence, and I'm looking forward to unpacking those. Micah, welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Greg. Thank you for having me here today.
SPEAKER_00Now tell us a bit about Zeitgeist. What is it that you do and why did you choose that name?
SPEAKER_01So, what do we do? As you already said, it's leadership development. And I think our website says leadership in the 21st century. That was really one of the main things when we started 15 years ago. And we added organizational development later on because we realized you can have the most amazing people in your organization. If the structure of the organization doesn't allow them to shine in whichever shape or form, then it is really difficult. So we thought it's really good to have a package that does both. Where does Zeitgeist come from? German name, the spirit of the time. And when we started, we actually asked so many people if they knew the word. And most of them, 99% of them, yeah, sure, we know that word. It's the spirit of the time. And we thought, great, we choose that word. Because we wanted to be a business that is actually cutting edge. And really checking ourselves again and again to what is really needed in the world outside out there. What do the people need? What do the leaders need? What are the challenges in the time they are in, and adapting to that and not just having programs that can be repeated because they make money and are not that useful anymore?
Leadership Needs In A Harder World
SPEAKER_00So 15 years ago you started the business, that was back in 2011, coming out of the global financial crisis, perhaps. I guess the sytkeist has changed a little bit over that period, and things are a bit gloomier now. What do you think has changed in terms of sort of leadership needs?
SPEAKER_01I think the leaders and people in general are much more challenged with the world around them. The world has become so much more complex, and that needs an inner attitude. I always say is we have to learn to be comfortable with being uncomfortable, not having all the answers, and that's that's not easy. So leadership today, I would say the way we've pivoted with that is much more on who am I as a leader? How do I tick? What are my triggers? Maybe even also looking at what are my shadows that actually come out in these challenging moments where I have to understand them and try to find a distance to them so that I can function in the world. I always say for the most amount of people, making the decisions for the most amount of people for the longest period of time, the good ones. Yeah, the good decisions.
SPEAKER_00And resilience must be a challenge in leadership.
Psychological Flexibility Under Pressure
SPEAKER_00Uh now I know sort of we've been through COVID, we've um sort of struggled through a few economic challenges along the way. We're talking now at the time of a war in the Middle East, which is impacting um petrol prices and the economy generally. It's pretty tough out there. Um how much does resilience play a part in the work you do?
SPEAKER_01I mean, you can see in the leadership training that more and more companies actually have understood that they have to have leader resilience on the program. Yeah, how to work with resilience. And people have a very different understanding what resilience means. In the good old days, it was be the tough cookie and cop it. Yeah. So nowadays we have understood that there are much better ways of doing that. So we call it now psychological flexibility, which is a much better word. So, how can we work or cope in situations where the world around is like a storm and inside is a storm and we still have to make decisions. So there will never be that point that we come to a, oh, I'm really zen and calm in the moment, now I can make a decision. No, it has to happen very differently. And for that, we have to learn to again create a distance in our head with our emotions so that we can do that and not taking anything that happens definitely personally. And seeing how our colleagues react in that, how can we also try to stay away from being too much influenced from emotions? And that is not an easy task, but there are amazing ways of learning to do that. This is something one can learn.
SPEAKER_00And and kind of what would be your your top tips then for learning that? Because if you're if you're caught up in the heat of a challenging situation or the gloom of a challenging situation, I guess it can be hard to kind of um work those issues through. You need to be prepared in advance, is that right?
SPEAKER_01Well, partly you can. If it's a complicated thing, we can be prepared. And maybe even know what to do. If it's complex, we have to be um able to be surprised. How do I say that? So to sit with surprises and not that are not shutting us down that we can't respond. And so what we use in the training, and I use for myself, is pretty much accepting what is going on, and then showing a value and saying, okay, what is now important that I'm actually not getting caught up in whatever mood, emotion, situation I'm in on the outside or on the inside, and I can create a distance to that, and then move on with what was my value that I actually wanted to do this work. And if people can do that, then that is something one can learn.
The Space Between Stimulus And Response
SPEAKER_01Do you? I'm just thinking of uh have you ever heard of Viktor Frankel?
SPEAKER_00Not sure that I have.
SPEAKER_01A German psychologist being in a concentration camp in the Holocaust, and he was working with all the Jewish people, and for me as a German background, it is amazing to see that a person like him actually used a sentence that he said between stimulus and response, there is a space, and in that space is our freedom where we can decide how to respond. And that is the space I'm talking about, creating that distance so that we can see what is coming up, what is the most or the best decision in that moment without being clouded by our emotions and moods and everything that sits in the way. So that is an amazing way of looking at the world.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
Coaching Offers And Women Voice Leadership
SPEAKER_00So in your business uh in Sitekeist, um, what is it um that you you do? Do you do one-on-one work or are you providing sort of courses for people to come along to? How does it work?
SPEAKER_01Both end. Yes, so we do coaching one-on-one, we do team coaching if needed, we create training programs if we are asked, and one of my signature programs, and is that maybe also is this segue into talk a bit about the vocal presence. One of my signature uh programs is women, voice, and leadership. So that I started that I think around eight years ago. And in the work we did, a lot of female colleagues actually came to me and said, Micah, with your background, so I'm also a singer and a vocal coach. And my background, my first job was a physiotherapist in healthy movement, so I understand body. And then being a coach and doing this type of work in leadership development, they asked, Can't you create a program that encompasses all of that? And so I sat down seriously and thought about how could that look? And that program is running now for eight years, it is adapting in certain ways because the world is changing. But one part that is really strong in there is that vocal part.
SPEAKER_00So tell us tell us a little bit
Vocal Presence As A Leadership Skill
SPEAKER_00more about that. Vocal presence sounds like something that matters if you're if you're on stage, um, but is that an issue for leadership as well?
SPEAKER_01I think it is an issue for everyone in life because it's about communication. So vocal presence means how do I actually communicate with my with the the opposite side in a one-on-one, in a meeting, as a leader, as a mother, as a partner, all of it. But of course it counts in leadership because there is a lot of impact that we want to have. And often it is not what we say, it is about how we say it that it actually lands at the other end. And that is something people often do not know about. That's why I added that. So the presence is how do we show up in the moment? What is happening when the emotions hit the fan, and what is happening my voice in that moment. And knowing that, and knowing that voice itself has elements that can be trained. And most people do not know that. Most people think this is the voice I have, this is the pitch I have, this is how I sound, I like it or I don't like it, is also in there. And all of that is actually just a result from how our habits were to get our voice to this like that. It is like a muscle system on a technical level, really a muscle system that can be trained. And in that, if we connect it on a holistic way, so I'm an integrative vocal coach, is like where is it connected and how are we connected to our body while we speak and we do funny things. We have body movements that are helpful for the voice, but we also have some that are absolutely not helpful. So it takes the energy away from the voice. So, in that, that's the complex and the holistic way of looking at voice.
SPEAKER_00And you're talking, you're talking voice but not accent, right?
SPEAKER_01So also talk accent.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01I have one, I will never lose it. And it's a really good point that you say that because in the beginning, when I came here, I thought I have to lose that. And over the years that I'm working, and with so many people from different countries living in Australia, with having English as second language, there is an accent for all of them. And most of them think their English is not good enough. And I figured out over the years, no, it's not the language itself, it's the way the mouth, like for Germans, we can't say TH because we don't have that in our language. So a lot of Germans say d instead of the. So other languages have problems as well because they have in their mother tongue, they don't have certain muscles that do a certain job to create a certain consonant. And if they do not know that, then that changes the way they talk. But it's not the language itself. And helping them with that and say, okay, let's look, what is your mouth actually doing or not doing, it's an amazing change that I have I have discovered over the years.
SPEAKER_00Excellent. And and uh you know, you've obviously you're obviously comfortable with your own German accent. I mean, I I sort of always worry about my terrible provincial New Zealand accent. I was hoping you might be able to share some tips for me to to deal with that as we go. Um but but how how at a practical level do you go about sort of trying to train people in in their vocal presence? Is that that must be a one-on-one sort of training arrangement, is it?
SPEAKER_01Until now it was and is. So I keep doing that. So I'm also a TEDx speaker coach. So they're also that is also my part that falls into that work to help people who have never been on stage to actually bring something that is very important to them out in a way where the content fits, but also how to how do they present it? And how can they use their body and the voice to get the best out of themselves that they actually want to present? And my wish was always, because with the one-on-one, it's also a financial point. So it has to be good for the other side and for myself to make a living, but I also wanted always to reach people that do not have the money. Let's say that's why I now work with Sebrin together, for the entrepreneurs, for the founders, for people to have to pitch for a great idea to get some money, for to pitch with investors, students, brilliant minds who actually have difficulty telling people what that what yeah, what is actually happening, and and not that they do not know it, but it doesn't land with the people. And my wish was to create something there that I could do both end, cater for both ends of the spectrum.
Measuring Voice For At Home Training
SPEAKER_01And so my husband, who is the programmer in our business for making computer stuff that I have no clue about, he actually created a program that now can, if we would record your voice, and even with the New Zealand accent, we could do that. And it measures parts of your voice, elements of the voice. So in in Germany, there was a philanthropist, no, not a philanthropist, a philanthropist, it was a phonetician. He did a study on what makes people trust people, and that is what comes with the voice. The tone of the voice, the pitch of the voice, the tempo of the voice. And that is something we can now measure, and that's what we're doing. And with that, I've created a training program that people can do at home, and then after five weeks, I measure the voice again to see if that program in its yeah, in a minimum version, actually can create something that helps people to use their voice if they stick with the training, because that needs to be trained, the voice needs to be trained. And that pilot is running and starting next week at CBRIN. So I'm super excited about that. And of course, I will also use that program for for a one-on-one, but it gives me the flexibility and what is needed in the community. That was one of my wishes to do something that is available and accessible in the community.
SPEAKER_00Excellent.
Nerves Fear And Audience Connection
SPEAKER_00And you know, how do how do people decide that they need support with their focus? I mean, and what what what is it that drives people to sort of take up that kind of um service?
SPEAKER_01So I can just say from the feedback from the training, where voice is also part of that, and from the one-on-one coaching, is that they realize it's their own nerves, it's how they feel when they have to stand in front of people. And I do not know if you know about that research. There are more people fearing standing in front of people and talking than fearing death. That's increasing. So there is something in us, yeah, that that changes everything as soon as we stand in front of people. And not everybody is an extrovert and loves a microphone in front of their face like I do. So not everyone has that. So I think for me it's also helpful to be that person that enjoys it, but I can see also the what it does if people all of a sudden freeze up. And the idea, what you exact what you did beforehand, that we talked, we talked about this morning before we went in front of the microphone is a very good way to take the stress out as well. That's what I say, people, before you have re have to record yourself or you have an interview with just your voice, then play around, do something else, and then go straight into the interview, something like that, because otherwise everything changes, and whatever changes in our body, in our mind, goes straight to the throat. Yeah, that's the direct path. And then our voice changes, and we think, wow, and everybody can hear it, and then my nerves go nuts, and everybody can see it, and all of that. And a lot of that is actually not even true.
SPEAKER_00I was going to say, because because I mean, does does any of that actually matter to an audience? Um, you know, I don't I don't think people are really sitting at some of our events um criticizing the way that some of our speakers might be might be talking. Um, but but you think there's something um sort of more um inbuilt around that where voice can voice can drive trust and uptake.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I think it depends on from which side we look. Is it from the person who talks or the person or the people who listen? And so working on the person who talks is really like what is in my ability using the voice as a capability and as a skill in the best way possible so that I can make my intentions land the way I want that. That's on the speaker side. And on the other side, the audience often is very forgiving if we're not perfect. What the audience wants is to connect. And that that is again on the speaker side. What do I do to connect? Yes, it is important that I tell you what Sidegist does and do that in a good way, but if I'm not connecting to you as a speaker, yeah, just between the two of us now, that makes the difference. Because then people go away and say, Yeah, I've heard the words, but hmm, hmm. It's a bit like when you go to a concert. You can have a perfect pitch person in singing, the perfect person behind the instrument, and you said, Yeah, it was a good concert, but didn't do a thing. Didn't touch me. And I think that's the bit that is the difference.
SPEAKER_00Do you have politicians coming to you to sort of make use of your service? Because there's some obvious parallels with in the political world.
SPEAKER_01I wish that that will happen. So that hasn't happened yet, but I have a place in Barton which I looked for, that I actually couldn't do this work. And I think there is so much potential there to really learn about oneself and how does it land at the other end. And that's I think that type of training is different, and that I get that question a lot. How is it different to media training? And I think in media training, they train you to, in my words, also look good. That whatever, yeah, whatever happens in the moment, that you know ways out. And I would say my way is like with sitting in that uncomfortable situation that I don't have to ple perform whatever comes out is actually can really happen, that has is connected to myself. So that would be my my way of distinguishing the two.
SPEAKER_00And that connection, obviously, in in a political sense, can drive um significant differences in the outcomes of elections. You've seen um lead you've seen some election campaigns around the world where you've got a leader who's really good at connecting, um, and perhaps a uh another leader who's not quite got that sort of that that stardust, I guess. Um and and that's true of business as well, you think.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Absolutely. If meant everything is about, and we see that very in a in a small business. It is all about connecting to people. Yeah. And and I think in it depends on how, let's say, how government chooses training programs, maybe they often they go a different path and just look what is available from the boards or whatever. So that that's a very different way of choosing. But if people come to us to a small business, it's all about connection.
Pitch Tempo Pauses And Being Heard
SPEAKER_00So who who are your customers? So most mostly small business people?
SPEAKER_01It is small business people, but also government. So government and I yeah, so I did also work a lot of work in defense, for example, in the beginning of this program, because it is a male-dominated area. And so in an environment, so people ask me, could I do that there? Because often, and that was very interesting to see that women's pitch change when they are in a male-dominated environment. Not necessarily with all of them, but with some of them. Because you just hear lower pitch voices and we just adapt to that.
SPEAKER_00Interesting.
SPEAKER_01And that was also something over the years that I actually found out, yeah, with the women. And most women fear, still fear, that they have a high pitched voice. And when they say a high pitched voice, that's maybe it's a bit like a higher pitch voice. It's never a high pitched voice, but there is so much in that that they sound hysterical or whatever in general. So what happens when Some women, I would say I have a low pitch voice. If I lower that further to have more authority and this idea there is authority, then I'm actually losing some colour in my voice. And losing the colour in my voice becomes much more monotonous, and then people don't want to listen. So what we want is learning to use the voice in a pitch setting that can create a melody and fluctuate in melody that people like to listen to that. Have a different way of working with the tempo, have the pauses that people actually can understand what you're saying and not so not saying so many words in one hit that the brain goes blank. Lost you, lost you, lost you. So our brain can only take a certain amount of words. For example. So in that pitch work was really helping women understand that if they go too low, they also lose something. But most of them are not even aware. And how do I maybe that's a good point? How do I find out what is a good pitch for you? So there is an there is a zone of indifference, what they say. That's the easiest way to get your voice out. And that is when you actually say, mm-hmm, one version on that level, or you cough that second bit. Yes, yes, yes. That is where I'm talking. So if that is very different to actually when I start talking, then there is one can match that to it and say, What happens actually here? Because the only way that we play with pitch is when we read kids' books. Yeah, mama bear, papa bear, all of that. But otherwise, we think these no, this is the pitch I'm talking in. And that's not the case.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so that's a really interesting observation. And um, are you really saying that we need to treat our uh professional conversations much more like a kid's book? Is that is that the is that the message? No.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for asking that question.
Training Time Versus Stage Time
SPEAKER_01No, I always talk about there is training time and stage time. Yeah. So for training, reading kids' books is amazing because we train different pitches. We train our voice to do different things. And then on the stage time, when it counts, when it's important, we forget about that training, but then there is more that the voice has available because we have we've worked in that. It can go higher up, it can go lower down, and that is exactly what we want.
SPEAKER_00So, how important do you think it is when when you're in that stage time? How important is it to be deliberate with the way you're using your voice?
SPEAKER_01Stage time means connecting with people, that's all. And that's what I know from stage. So I can train as much as I like beforehand, but the moment I go on stage, I'm on stage. And that means it's all about the result will come out in the best way possible. If I try to be perfect and lose the audience, I've lost it. So there is really like how do I connect? And that is eye contact, picking up what's happening in the room, how can I work with that, how do people respond? It's really checking how does that land, what I have to say. Is it landing the way I want? Do people roll their eyes or whatever responses they have, and I have to adjust to that. And that is what counts in the moment. And the more I trust myself being in the moment, the easiest that's gonna be. Then it's not about we can make a mistake. As I said, leaders today have to show vulnerability, they have to learn to do that, which doesn't mean they are weak, but they are open to whatever happens. That is, I think, what it means.
SPEAKER_00Excellent. Well, thank you so much for sharing your insights. And uh possibly you've made me a little more nervous about my voice as we as as I do this podcast.
SPEAKER_01Typically happens when I talk about voice.
SPEAKER_00Um, Micah, if uh people want to know more about Zeitgeist and what you do, how do they get in touch with
How To Reach Zeitgeist And Wrap
SPEAKER_00you?
SPEAKER_01Please go to the website zeitgeistct.com. You will find it there, and you can contact me there. There's my phone number and my email address. And I hope to hear from a lot of the listeners today and see what we can do. What's in it for you?
SPEAKER_00Excellent. Thank you so much for joining me. Um, this has been the Canberra Business Podcast. I'm Greg Harford, and I've been joined by Mike Cabrill from Sitecast. Um, thank you for listening, and uh don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcast platform for future episodes of the Canberra Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Greg, for having me. It was a delight.
SPEAKER_00Thank you very much.