Hiring For Potential

If you think disability at work only means ramps and wheelchairs, this conversation will change how you see your own team. I sit down with Cate Johnson, Employment Services Manager at the Personnel Group, to talk about skills, inclusion, and disability employment in Canberra, and why “hire for potential” is more than a slogan. With one in five Australians living with disability and so many conditions being invisible, chances are your workplace already includes people managing health conditions, neurodiversity, or mental health challenges. The question is whether they feel safe enough to ask for support.

We get practical about what disability can look like, from ADHD, autism, and dyslexia to chronic fatigue, anxiety, depression, and PTSD. Kate explains why stigma and perception are still the biggest barriers to employment, and how good recruitment comes down to job fit, clear onboarding, proper training, and supportive management. We also dig into the fear many employers have about “getting it wrong”, and why reasonable adjustments are often simpler than people expect.

Cost is another big concern for small and medium businesses, so we break down what support is available through Inclusive Employment Australia providers, what post placement support looks like after someone starts work, and how Job Access can help fund workplace adjustments when they are needed. We also talk about the role of disability action plans and what matters most after the pledge: everyday habits that normalise inclusion.

If you want to build a more inclusive workplace culture and access a wider talent pool, press play and take one small step today. Subscribe for more Canberra business conversations, share this with a manager or business owner, and leave a review with your biggest question about inclusive hiring.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast. I'm Greg Harford from the Canberra Business Chamber, and today I'm talking skills, inclusion, and disability employment with Kate Johnson, the Employment Services Manager for the Personnel Group, right here in the nation's capital. Kate, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Thanks for having me.

What The Personnel Group Does

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Now the chamber has been partnering up with the Personnel Group to put on a couple of events recently around workplace inclusion. And I want to talk about those in a bit of detail. But first, I guess for our listeners who may not know too much about the Personnel Group, what is it that you do?

SPEAKER_00 0:47

So the Personnel Group is a not-for-profit organisation that has been helping people overcome barriers to employment for nearly 40 years. We've been supporting the ACT community since 2017 and provide a range of services across employment, health, training, community inclusion, but employment is really at the heart of what we do. Our focus is on helping people with disability, enduring health conditions or mental health challenges, find meaningful work and most importantly, stay in work. So we work closely with individuals, understand their goals, and build on their strengths and provide tailored support every step of the way. Also, most importantly, we partner with employers, so helping them meet their recruitment needs, helping by connecting them with talented candidates and supporting them to create inclusive workplaces. For us, it's about finding the right job and fit for employers and employee. And once we get someone in work, the support doesn't stop there. We continue supporting people for at least a year once they're in employment. We also offer work assist. So if you have somebody in your workplace that has a medical condition or disability and is struggling to with their role due to that, we can jump in and help out. So whether it's helping someone find their first job, supporting them to build long-term career, or helping businesses create diverse and inclusive teams, that's what we're here to do.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah. So, Kate, there's a lot of discussion

Why Businesses Should Care

SPEAKER_01 2:15

at the moment about helping people with disabilities and personnel group puts a lot of focus on helping support people with disabilities and getting them into the workplace. But why does that matter, do you think? And why should businesses care?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Um basically more than one in five Australians live with a disability, and around 43% of Australians will experience a mental health condition at some point in their lives. So the reality is many people are looking for work could be a perfect fit for the business. But because of barriers, a lack of confidence, or simply not presenting their best in an interview, they're often overlooked. Employers can miss out on some fantastic talent by focusing on first impressions rather than potential. What many people also don't realise is every workplace probably already has somebody who is managing a disability, health condition, or mental health challenge, and it's not always visible. So the more we break down the stigma and create workplaces where people feel safe to ask for support, the better outcomes we can see for everyone. Businesses, for businesses, it's not just about doing the right thing, it's about accessing a wider talent pool and retaining good staff. Where people feel supported and accepted, they're more encouraged to be more productive and most more likely to stay with the employer. My message to businesses is simple: don't focus on limitations, focus on potential. Some of the best people in your team might be people you're currently overlooking. The more inclusive we become, the stronger our workplace businesses and communities will be.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

So one in five Australians is an awfully big number of people, right? So what actually is a

What Disability Can Look Like

SPEAKER_01 3:55

disability? I mean, we're not just talking about people who are in a wheelchair or or or physically disabled, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Oh yeah. So a disability can be anything from neurodiversity, which we're probably hearing a lot more about. So somebody with ADHD, autism, um, things like learning disabilities are often really overlooked. So somebody who's got dyslexia or been late diagnosed with dyslexia might be presenting as someone not been followed, not following direction or following processes because they're finding difficulty in reading it. There's a number of uh health conditions and disabilities that are invisible around things like chronic fatigue, POTS, a lot of psychosocial disabilities as well, around anxiety, depression, PTSD is becoming quite uh quite a big one as well. So it's not something that where people need a lot of support and and has a huge limitation on their life. Most of the time it's just about having conversations and understanding and working, working with your team or working with your employees to work out the best, the best way that you can all work together.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

So we've seen sort of across the country massive growth in the numbers of people getting support from the NDIS over the last few years. And uh at the same time, there's been a lot more conversation about disabilities. I think it's fair to say. Um but but what do you think is driving that growth? Are there actually more people with a disability, or is it just that there's more conversation about it and people are more aware of it?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Oh, 100%. I think more people are aware of it. I think the growth in NDIS is a reflection of the genuine support that people need. Um, for a lot of people to get a diagnosis, especially around a lot of the um a lot of the neurodiversity type illnesses, um, the diagnosis can take years and cost a lot of money. Um, and as awareness and assessment processes improve, more people are actually getting access to that support that they need. I mean, the NDIS was created to help people with disabilities live more independent, inclusive, and connected

NDIS Growth And Rising Awareness

SPEAKER_00 6:05

lives. And the fact that we're seeing more and more people do that shows that it's success it's a success and that that need is there.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

So I understand that people with disabilities are less likely to be employed compared to people without disabilities. What do you find when you're talking to uh I guess people with disabilities themselves, but also to employers? What are the biggest barriers to employment for people with disability?

SPEAKER_00 6:32

I think it's it's quite simple. Stigma and perception. Um, people often have an idea of what they think a disability looks like, and often it's bigger than what it is as well. And especially for people who don't have that real life experience, um, their views are often shaped by stereotypes that we see either on TV or through media. Um, and it it's not really the reality of the situation. With so many people in Australia, like one in five people having a disability in Australia, the likelihood that people are surrounded by people who have a disability and they're just not aware of it because it's not overly visible sort of shows how it's not sort of talked about enough or it's not accepted enough. People feel hesitant about disclosing disability

Stigma Disclosure And Hiring Barriers

SPEAKER_00 7:25

because of the judgment that they sometimes face. Um, for employers, it's I you you need to look at the people, the person first. Like a person with a disability is a person. Um, and just like any candidate, they've got strengths and skills in areas where they excel. And good recruitment is about finding the right fit for the role. Um, often people are being overlooked with being in, you know, like overlooked because of their disability, but they bring incredible resilience, problem-solving skills, and commitment to the workplace. Um, when employers look beyond assumptions and focus on potential, that's when great employment outcomes happen for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

So, what what do you think are the biggest misconceptions that employers have?

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Um, I think a lot of it is uh around risk and difficulty or thinking that it's going to require a lot of extra work. Employers get concerned that they're going to say the wrong thing or do something, and then suddenly they're going to be in trouble with fair work or HR or something along those lines. Um, the reality is a lot simpler, people with a disability they still need to be able to perform the inherent requirements of a role, just like any other employee. Um, reasonable adjustments are just that. They're reasonable, and in most cases, success comes down to just having good onboarding, clear processes, proper training and supportive management. And that's where providers like the personnel group can really help with all of that process. So we can walk you through what inclusion looks like, we can walk you through what our reasonable adjustments look like, help with work assist, help with job access, um, and also that what my one of my favourite topics always is the PPS. So that post-placement support in the workplace and what manager wouldn't want someone to help

Misconceptions About Risk And Effort

SPEAKER_00 9:15

them with all of that and managing somebody as well, um, and and doing a little bit of that heavy lifting and having some of those tough conversations.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Yeah. So uh Kate, I mean, uh one one of the things I sometimes hear from employers is, oh, look, I'd I'd like to be able to bring someone with disabilities into the workplace, but it's just going to cost me so much more. But I guess um your services in terms of finding that placement, they're they're free to the employer, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yeah, 100%. And especially looking at the makeup of Canberra businesses, I know a lot of people when they think of um employment in Canberra, they're instantly like, oh, it's all public service and it's you know all government jobs. But the reality is that the majority of what, especially with what we work at, work with is small and medium businesses in Canberra. And things like recruitment costs, if you're running ads through things like C, can really add up. If you're reaching out to an IEA provider, that's all free of cost. We can help with that pre-screening, um, which again is a very time-consuming task at times. Um, and then any of that onboarding process. So if you are needing any adjustments made in the workplace, that can be covered off by Job Assist, which is all government funded. Um, and that's we we can do the help with the entire assessment process and facilitating all and all of that. And then again, with that post-placement support, that's all that's all free. That all of that support that you get from us does not cost a cent to the employer. So essentially hiring someone with a disability, especially through an IEA provider, can actually help a business save costs.

Free Support And Workplace Adjustments

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Yeah. And and just to be clear, Kate, the um those those adjustments to the workplace that you talk about in terms of uh potential physical adjustments, whether that's uh buying a different style of desk or perhaps getting a ramp installed or whatever, uh that that's all covered by government, is that right? And what can be covered?

SPEAKER_00 11:15

So it it depends on what can be covered on the needs of the businesses. So if it's something like a computer monitor, generally an employer would need to provide a commute computer monitor for their staff if that's what their job entails. But if somebody needs a stand desk or ergonomic chair, um, those are all things that can be done through job access. So we just need to, there's a there's an assessment process that happens. Um so we just we we do a lot of all of that and walk the employer through. Um, there have been cases where there have been quite large modifications happened to a business um where it's been assessed, and that can be um, yeah, things like ramps being installed, um, automatic doors. We've had one in our own workplace that was um that was for somebody who needed an automatic door, so we were able to facilitate that. Um, yeah, so it depends on the needs of the business and um what that person's disability is. But again, we can step you and walk you through all of that and do all the heavy lifting

Connect Support Thrive Employer Events

SPEAKER_00 12:20

for it.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Okay, really good to know. Now, um obviously the Canberra Business Chamber has been working with you on a couple of events recently around more inclusive workplaces. Um, what have they been about?

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Um, so we've really been using the phrase connect, support, thrive, which captures what we're trying to achieve. So it's about connecting employees with talented job seekers that they might not have considered otherwise, supporting both parties through recruitment and onboarding and ongoing employment, and ultimately helping everyone thrive in the workplace. So that's looked like we had we've had lots of honest conversations about what hiring somebody with a disability looks like in practice. Um, a lot of employers are interested in being more inclusive but not sort of really sure where to start. So these events have been an opportunity to build confidence, challenge some of those common misconceptions, and show employers that they don't have to navigate it alone. So the key message is there's a lot of support available. Um, organisations like the personnel group can work alongside employers through the entire employment journey, um, helping making the process easier.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

So, what sort of feedback have you had from employees? Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, attendees, I should say.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Attendees, yeah, we would love more employees to come along.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Um so we've had you know at these events, we've had a mix of employees and businesses, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Yes, yes, and support, like support coordinators and and yeah, basically anyone involved with someone with a disability. We've had parents turn up, we've had yeah, different support workers.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

So that's awesome to get that kind of breadth of of interest in the issue. But but from a from a business point of view, the people have come along, what's what sort of feedback have you been getting?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Um everyone's it's been very positive. And I think a lot of it is how these events are run. It's not just sort of standing up and going, you know, doing the slideshow by death type thing. We we do have some slideshows, but a lot of it is um interactive engagement, um, really encouraging um conversation between all of the attendees. So it's not just us getting up there and putting our point of view and talking about how the personnel group is so great. Um, it's helping everyone in the room have those conversations and share their experience and listening to other people's experience. And that's really helped break down some of those misconceptions, um, especially with how people think it's hard. Um, and I think hearing some real life stories and and really seeing that a person with a disability as a person and much more than just what their barriers are.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah, and that's a message that I hear quite often through the conversations I've had around inclusion issues over the last few years is look, you know, people with disabilities are people too, and uh and they want to be treated in the same way uh as others. Have there been any uh sort of particular learnings for you out of these events? I mean, you work in this space, but is there anything new that's sort of come out of the last uh couple of things we've done?

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Not overly new, just uh there has been a there's showing us that there's a lot of intent out there, but there's still a lot of hesitation. Um so employers want to be inclusive and they can see the value in it. Um, but the challenge is just turning it into action. Um, people understand sort of why it's important, but not really sure how to make those next steps. Um, so this is just where we need more, I

Why Work Matters For Everyone

SPEAKER_00 15:55

think the more engagement that we get from employers and the more people sort of willing to make those first steps are are really going to help it flourish.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

And from the perspective of people with disability themselves, how important is it that they can find work?

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Well, it's really important and it's just important for the same reasons as anyone. Um, work provides independence, a sense of purpose, social connection, and the opportunity to build the life that you want for yourself. I think still think there's a bit of a misconception that because someone has a disability, they should simply be grateful for being cared for or included. But people with disabilities have the same hopes, ambitions and goals as everyone else. Um they want to contribute, be part of the team, develop their careers and create the future that they want. Success looks different for everyone, and it shouldn't be up to society to decide what success looks like for a person with a disability. They should have the same opportunity to define that for themselves. Many people, for many people, employment's a huge part of that journey, and because it provides not only financial independence but confidence, connection, and a sense of belonging. And again, at the end of the day, people with disability are people first. They want the same things most of us want to be valued, to contribute, and to have the opportunity to pursue their goals. And employment is one of the most powerful ways to make this happen.

Disability Action Plans That Last

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Now, the Canberra Business Chamber, of course, has been asking businesses to pledge to put in place a disability action plan to commit essentially to becoming more accessible for current and future employers. How much of a difference do actions like this make, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Um I think it's um it's really important, um, and I think it's a really positive step. Um, the disability action plan gets organisations thinking about inclusion and accessibility and what that actually looks like for their business, and it's an important place to start. For me, the real value comes from what's what sort of happens next and what after the pledge is signed, and it's important for businesses to take active steps, whether it's providing more education, having open conversations with their teams, reviewing recruitment practices, or sharing what they've learned with other employees. And the more organizations that are talking about disability and inclusion, the more normalized it becomes. And when it becomes a part of everyday business conversation rather than a special initiative, that's when we start to see real change.

Where Employers Should Start

SPEAKER_01 18:27

So I guess to wrap up, Kate, have you got any advice for employees who might be thinking about wanting to make their workplaces more inclusive? Where should they start? They should call me.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Um, reach out, reach out to the personnel group or reach out to an IEA provider and just learn what support is available because there is so much support. Partnering with an inclusive employment Australia provider can give you access to free support with recruitment, onboarding, ongoing employment, so you don't have to work it out on your own. Um the other thing is really take a look at your hiring processes and ask yourself some honest questions. Are you recruiting the best person for the role or just the person who interviews well? Employment's a lot more than a one-hour interview. Some of the best employees aren't always the most polished candidates on paper. I really encourage businesses what they are looking to look at, what they're already doing for their existing staff. Are you creating a workplace where people feel supported, valued, and able to perform your best? Inclusion isn't just about who you hire, it's about that culture that you create.

How To Reach Kate Johnson

SPEAKER_01 19:31

So, Kate, this is not an ad for you, but if people do want to reach out and get in touch with you, how do they do that?

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Uh your website is the personnel group. Um, so you can just Google the personnel group and it'll come up with the 1300 number and you can be directed my way. Um, I am on LinkedIn as well, or just reach out to the business chamber. Um, yeah, or just yeah, pop into one of our offices. We've got them around um around Canberra. A main hub is Balconen, uh, Braddon, Philip, and Tugrenong. We also have we have offices in. Um, yeah, just give me a call, reach out. Um, and we're we're like happy to come out and do inclusion training in the workplace, have those conversations. We've started doing that for some businesses. Um really helps break down that that stigma and also helps employers just have that conference, that, um, that confidence because it just starts with the conversation. You don't have to reinvent the wheel or anything, it's just about it's about communication.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

All right, well, stand by the phone for people who are calling you on the back of this podcast. So uh Kate Johnson, it's been great having you here with us on the Canberra Business Podcast. Um, so so thank you so much for for joining us.

Resources And Closing

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Um, thank you too to our audience for joining us today. Uh, don't forget there's heaps of great resources and lots of information about um skills and inclusion on our website at canberabusiness.com. Uh, I'm Greg Harford. This has been the Canberra Business Podcast, and I'll catch you next time.