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Dive into the captivating world of extraordinary individuals with "Interesting People," the podcast where host Justin Wallin sits down with some of the most intriguing personalities from all walks of life. Each episode unravels the unique stories, challenges, and triumphs of guests who have made remarkable impacts in their fields or led fascinating lives. From trailblazing innovators and inspiring artists to unsung heroes and enigmatic personalities, Justin brings you candid conversations that reveal the human spirit's endless capacity for wonder and achievement. Tune in for thought-provoking interviews, surprising revelations, and a celebration of the diverse tapestry of human experience.
Justin's Podcast
Maggie Allard: From Sports Marketing to Energy Policy...Unexpected Career Paths in Communications
Strategic communications has evolved far beyond the days of hiring a white-shoe lobbyist to whisper in policymakers' ears. Today, it's a sophisticated blend of marketing, storytelling, and relationship-building that requires both creativity and consistency to make an impact. In this revealing conversation, Maggie Allard, Senior Vice President at Adfero, opens up about her unexpected career path from sports marketing aspirant to public policy communications strategist.
Maggie's journey illustrates how transferable skills—curiosity, problem-solving, and adaptability—can lead to success across seemingly unrelated fields. What drew her to policy communications wasn't political ambition but the realization that she could help tell important stories and solve complex problems in creative ways. Her work in the energy and agriculture spaces demonstrates how effective communications can shape policy outcomes when approached with empathy and authenticity.
The conversation explores the challenges especially relevant to policy communications—limited budgets, complex topics, and the need to establish credibility with multiple stakeholders. Maggie shares practical wisdom about building integrated campaigns where every element reinforces the others, from social media and website content to earned media and third-party validators. Her emphasis on consistency reveals a fundamental truth: "We don't want to be reintroducing ourselves over and over again," as communications is "an iterative investment" rather than a one-time expense.
For those considering or advancing in communications careers, Maggie offers invaluable advice: "Never get comfortable." The industry evolves rapidly, and professional growth comes from embracing discomfort and remaining open to learning. She encourages creating environments where team members feel safe asking questions and sharing ideas—even if those ideas might be wrong—because innovation often emerges from collaborative problem-solving.
Subscribe to Interesting People for more conversations with fascinating individuals making an impact in their fields and communities. Rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform, and follow us on social media for updates and behind-the-scenes content.
Welcome to Interesting People, the podcast where we delve into the lives and stories of fascinating individuals from all walks of life. I'm your host, justin Wallen, and in each episode we bring you inspiring, thought-provoking and sometimes surprising interviews with people who are making an impact in their fields and communities. There's only one common thread that the world is more interesting because of them. Get ready to be inspired, entertained and enlightened as we spotlight the extraordinary. Let's dive in. Hi everyone and welcome. We are joined today by my good friend, maggie Allard. Maggie is Senior Vice President at AdFerro, one of the nation's premier communications firms, based here in DC. I had the good fortune to do a lot of work with her and with Ed Farrell, and we're going to chat a little bit today. So, first and foremost, I'd like to just find out a little bit about how you got to be where you are today, if you could describe that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for having me, Justin. I'm very excited to talk all things communications today. So I started actually with the desire to be in sports marketing so completely different line of interest but really wasn't quite ready to go down the route of post-grad work yet grad school anything like that Um, and really wanted to move to, uh, dc because it was I knew a lot of friends from college, it was close to go back to Virginia Tech sporting events, um, keeping the thread there, um, but uh, so it was really was like, all right, I'll get, I'll get into sports marketing at some point, and never did Um really actually just then started working kind of agency side of things right out the gate and immediately when getting to work on kind of advocacy campaigns, I realized, oh, this is a different type of interest that I have in problem solving and finding a different way to make a difference. I think I had maybe apathy towards the policy side of things before because I felt like who am I to have an influence here?
Speaker 2:But then realized there are like so many stories to be told and you know, when working in strategic communications and public affairs and advocacy, there are so many ways you can tell those stories that really do make a difference. So then started to work, you know, with clients across the board you know from corporate clients to trade associations and really then over the last six years or so, started to focus in on the energy space. The last six years or so started to focus in on the energy space, branching out into agriculture and now really has led to that focus area of energy and ag for me. But yeah, it was not necessarily a direct path here or a long-term interest, but when I started to get to work on that type of thing I realized that was where I wanted to continue focusing.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, right, because I mean most folks they hear sports marketing. It's a pretty sexy space, right. I mean it's very visible. You know, not only in terms of most people, myself not included. I'm half the American I should be because I don't follow sports but just about everyone does in some form or another, whatever that might be, and it's regular conversation. People are most likely to know whatever team or network or whatever it might be that you're associated with or brand, and the world of public policy is a little bit different. So I mean, what about that? One's intuitive? I know I'm going to enjoy it. It's exciting, it's fast paced, it's got all the visibility. You're aligned with brands that are cool to be aligned with. What about public policy? Kind of surprised you once you started getting into it and made you think I am actually interested. You touched on it a little bit. But what drives you in that space?
Speaker 2:goes. With both of these things, there's like a curiosity that I have to learn more. And so every year in sports, you know, teams change, people get traded, the power balance shifts except for for a long time, a New England Patriots they kept a little bit of the dynasty up there but for most sports, you know, we shift a little bit with who's good from year to year and how do you react to that. And so if you're on the marketing side of it, what do you need to do to bring in, you know, your fan base and how are you telling the stories of the athletes? And so, going into the policy side, I realized that the curiosity there actually, you know, served me pretty well and was more surprising to me actually, that I cared about that type of thing and could really focus in on my desire to problem solve and kind of have a creative way of problem solving, not just take the same thing and the same thing that you did last time and apply it to a new problem moving forward, that everything is so unique and apply it to a new problem moving forward, that everything is so unique. So, at a very base level it felt like a similar skill set that I could use.
Speaker 2:But I think that part of it was surprising to me just the level of problem solving that comes with these issues, but then also the trust that you need.
Speaker 2:I think people believe more that it just is about the message itself, but there's the element of credibility that's necessary there.
Speaker 2:You can't just be saying whatever or saying you know the thing that people need to hear if you haven't gone out and done the work to create relationships, if you haven't laid that groundwork of the education that people need and to show your credibility. So I think that part of it was a little bit more surprising to me. I just thought common sense, yes, this is what this policy issue means and everyone should believe it. But I think that there's a lot more to it than people will really realize and that also you can't just I mean it's very cut and dry. This is who we want to be a fan base for us, for you know our sports team. On the other side of things, this is you know, we're trying to influence policymakers, decision makers, local, you know state regulators, and it's not necessarily just talking directly to them, it's talking to the people around them, and so I think that part surprised me as well was how do you branch out and create a larger sphere of influence to talk to versus just, you know, direct to a customer base?
Speaker 1:That makes a lot of sense. I think that creativity really speaks to the challenge within the space, because there are two kind of big issues that are hard to overcome. And one is, you know, it's not dinner table conversation, unlike sports and whatnot within the people who are interested, and that is something core, right, it's core to kind of your everyday life in some way shape or form. You know, this world is a little bit different, even if you kind of get into, you know some, you know non-public policy branding components. There's that one thing of most folks aren't talking about this stuff every day. So how do you get awareness, how do you kind of punch through?
Speaker 1:And then the other component being, you know absent, a few very specific examples budgets, right, these are not $20 million budgets, you know, over the course of a couple months, they're not huge budgets in any way, shape or form. You're basically helping groups of folks with shared interests punch above their weight. And it is very much marketing, right, it's not the old concept of you hire a white shoe lobbyist and off you go to Washington and have a few meetings and either achieve success or failure. It's marketing, it's the entire gamut. The world is very, very different in this space. Yeah, that difficulty no-transcript.
Speaker 2:I think realizing that nothing can be done in a silo.
Speaker 2:So many people just think that you put out an ad or you get a piece of coverage in a newspaper and that's all it is.
Speaker 2:But really making sure all of your different parts work together is a lot more challenging than people realize.
Speaker 2:People realize If you are too focused on like, well, you know, I want to come to you and here's our paid media and that's all you know I need you to focus on. That's okay if that's all you need a certain team within your company or organization to focus on, but they need to be talking to everyone else too, because your paid media can amplify your earned media. You need to have a good organic presence and you know your everyday content that's being pushed out needs to level back up to what you're doing everywhere else and on the policy side of things you can't be totally separate than what your general reputation, you know groups are talking about and what you just are saying. Everything needs to be cohesive. So I think it's a lot more difficult than people realize to make sure that there's internal coordination and collaboration and all of the vendors or agency side whoever it is that's supporting you, to make sure that everyone's working together, because if you go off message somewhere else, it becomes someone else's problem, so you have to talk to each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, there's another component to it too. Right, you're communicating your client's message, but you are in the world of business and you're communicating AdFero's message and AdFero's brand and you as a practitioner in the space. How do you do that and become credible as a practitioner and, you know, contributing to the credibility of the organization as well?
Speaker 2:at Ferrell, I think that there's a level of empathy that everyone needs just to understand what we're all working on. That you have to be able to then put into the content that you're putting together, but then also the way that you're working with um, your clients, and so understanding what the challenges are of your clients, um, so that you can better figure out the right um subject matter that you need to dive into or where the gaps that you can create for um, that you can fill in for them um, are, so that you just know how you can better be a partner with them. And all that, I think, comes from that empathy. But it's the same empathy that you use to develop messaging, because you know I'm going out there to understand what the this constituency base, what their pain points are, and so that's how I know I can connect with them based off of well, we hear what the problem is and here's how this association, here's how this organization can help you solve that, and what you know the policies we're trying to push forward can like, need or will do to help you.
Speaker 2:So I think that the base level of everything is just that empathy and partnership, because then you can just understand each other better. Everything is just that empathy and partnership, because then you can just understand each other better. So when we, you know, kind of go talk to people who have, you know, a campaign that they're looking for support on, or just messaging support, whatever it might be, is really trying to get to know them. And so, as a partner, how do I figure out the best way that I can position you and how do I figure out the best way that I can be of support to you and not get in your way but also make your life easier? I think that just looking at that is the most important part, rather than coming in with I've already got the solution for you, because nothing, everything needs to be tailor-made. Nothing is just, you know, same issue, same problem. This is what we're going to do for you.
Speaker 1:Just leave it in a box off the shelf and hand it to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:You do a couple other things too, you personally. One is you write. You know you'll write about a topic that is a resource you know for your clients and those who are interested, and that'll, you know, show up for you know, your clients and those who are interested, um, and that'll show up, whether it's on a Pharaoh's page or LinkedIn or wherever it might be. You, you create content kind of describing certain components about that and I think that, um, you do see a lot of stuff here when you, when you open up LinkedIn in the morning, you see a lot of stuff floating around. The reality is not a whole lot of people write their own stuff and not a whole lot of people are doing that, going to that extra effort. I think that's interesting, I think it's pretty unique, and have you had feedback about that? Has that proven to be kind of useful, aside from you putting it out there and a few things in there? How does that work for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it just.
Speaker 2:I mean, even going back to what we were talking about earlier, it goes to that credibility.
Speaker 2:I could be saying all the right things, but if people understand that, like I actually am out at events in the energy and ag space, I actually know what I'm talking about there, then people trust that.
Speaker 2:And so just being consistent, you know, from that agency side of it, being consistent with that, just to show like I'm keeping up with what's going on, and then also, as we talk to new potential clients or as we talk to even just other stakeholders within existing clients, it's helpful to be able to show here's what we've said about this, take a look at it and then let's start a conversation. So I think sharing that content is also, then, helpful internally, gives direction to our teams of what they should be focused on internally, gives direction to our teams of what they should be focused on. Provides conversation starters for some of the more junior staffers to look in and get excited about diving into that more. You know, here's why storytelling matters, like, let me figure out new ways to tell the story, what are other people doing about that? So I think it's both helpful internally and then in kind of starting conversations externally too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you touched on exactly that other component that you do a lot of, and that's doing your homework, right, you go to the events, you go and meet people and go and talk to them, and that part is critical because it takes effort, right. I mean, aside from money, aside from time, it takes effort. You have to actually engage. It's not just showing up and having a booth somewhere and just kind of doing the time. You really do have to do your homework and that's critical. You mentioned younger folks at the office and your colleagues and so forth. I want to touch on that a little bit, because people are starting to get their career started and I think that your ability to give insight is truly helpful. And one of the things I'd love to find out is you know the, if I knew then, what I know now, what do you wish you knew before you got really cracking in the industry and that you think would be truly helpful for folks to know as they consider embarking or already embarking on a career.
Speaker 2:I think never get comfortable, because the second you are comfortable, you're missing something. That's changed. This industry moves so quickly. So if you are just kind of like cool, I know how to do this, that's how we're going to do it. Someone else will be staying in the loop of oh, what is the next AI trend or what's the next? You know content style that's really responding to people.
Speaker 2:But it is easy to get comfortable where you're like I know this, I feel good about this and this is what I'm going to kind of share to clients, or this is what I'm going to write about, this is how I'm going to approach you know an op-ed style or a pitch to a reporter, and it's good to feel confidence in yourself, but it's not good to then stay in that same space because otherwise you're not going to grow. And so I think with like that part of it is like not don't get too comfortable, but also then embrace being uncomfortable, like don't let it scare you away. You know, you might know. All right, I have to push myself beyond the boundaries to kind of get to that next level or to take on a new client work. It's easy for someone to kind of be like I don't know. I have never done that before. Maybe I'm not the right fit to join that team. But just be uncomfortable joining and that's okay because you're going to, within five minutes, start to feel more confident for yourself.
Speaker 1:What about asking questions? I mean, do younger folks who are kind of coming into this, do you find that they're comfortable asking questions, or is it a bit of a?
Speaker 2:hurdle. I think it depends on the person, probably, but so many people come in probably thinking they already have to know everything and they don't. It's okay. I remember, actually, when I interviewed for my first job, I was like I said something to them where I said, like I am 22, so I'm not going to know everything, so I'm here to be a sponge, and I got feedback when I got the job that they liked hearing that and I didn't go in saying like yep, I know it all, don't worry, I'm going to be, you know, the right person for you.
Speaker 2:I was more willing to show that I was open to learning. So I think being you have to be okay, asking questions but also giving ideas that might be wrong. I tell everyone on my teams it's okay. If you're wrong about something, I want to hear it because maybe that gives me a perspective that I hadn't thought about. And you know, 50% of what I was thinking and 50% of what you were thinking will come together with 100% of the right idea where you know If you were too afraid to share that before, I never would have gotten to that point or the client would have never gotten to that point. So, wanting to make sure that it's a safe space for everyone to give ideas to, or then we can correct where the misinformation or the you know gap in understanding of a goal is. You're never going to find that out if you don't try and share your thoughts or ask those questions you don't try and share your thoughts or ask those questions.
Speaker 1:It's fantastic advice. Just be comfortable asking, be comfortable not knowing, be comfortable kind of going back as you're halfway through a project or a quarter way through a project. Am I headed in the right direction or do I need to redirect?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, whoever you're working with is going to tell you stop checking in with me, you're good, keep going. So if you're worried about over-communicating, don't. I think that that's when people start to go too far down the wrong path.
Speaker 1:Anything else you'd like to share about. You know kind of what it takes to impact policy and make changes in Americans' lives.
Speaker 2:I think that I go back to you know that integrated campaign strategy. It's a very easy way to just be like kind of into the lingo, but it really is, I think, a very important thing to keep in mind as you are figuring out the right way to influence and impact. If you, you know, aren't keeping up with your social channels, if you aren't keeping your website fresh, if you're not putting out frequent and relevant content, you're not going to keep that engagement up. It's not about that first touch point, it's about all the touch points after so, even if you have a great paid campaign or you're out with earned media all the time and getting your executive out everywhere, if you don't have new things for them to come back to and continue to learn or continue to engage on, I don't think that things for them to come back to and continue to learn or continue to engage on.
Speaker 2:I don't think that you're going to keep a sustained advocacy engagement up and people are not going to stay interested in what you have to say. So really making sure that you have fresh content going out all the time and that you're using your different moving pieces to work together is probably the most important part, but then also having the right messenger to share those different elements that you have going out. It's not going to always be internal, it's not going to always be your CEO identifying if you need to come together and join a coalition, do you need to bring in a economist, a third-party expert of some sort to share that message, and so kind of removing a little bit of that self-importance to it will help people relate to things more Without bringing in other perspectives. It might feel a little bit too self-serving and kind of one of those well, obviously you're going to say this. So just making sure you have the right messenger when you're putting out all this fresh content.
Speaker 1:Don't just share the same thing from the same person every time amount of time right and and presumably you, you have a life outside of work. What do you do to, um, to make sure that you're switched on right, so that you, you do enjoy your work, that you do continue that you're you're energetic and that you're happy both in work and out of work? Uh, what, what, uh, what's that special something for you?
Speaker 2:For me probably my dog, because it's a good like she a I got her a week into the pandemic so during that time where we weren't allowed to really do much, she gave me kind of a distraction of like, all right, I've got to make sure this living, breathing animal is fed and kept alive, so and active and engaged, and she lets me know when she is bored so actual togachi, is that what they call them?
Speaker 1:the little, remember those little, oh yes, oh my god I well, I was big into tamagotchis when I was little so, uh, this was, you know, the correct trajectory of my life to end up having a breathing
Speaker 2:tamagotchi, uh, in my house, um. But I think she is a good also reset for me when I'm feeling stressed and it's like let's just go for a walk together and I just look at how excited she is, when she's like you know, sniffing the grass and it's the little things that just reminds you that when things get crazy and tough, that we can all chill out, and tough that we can all chill out. And then currently my other distraction keeping me kind of focused elsewhere sometimes is the Celtics are in the NBA playoffs, so I need to, you know, sometimes just be like I'm going to watch this game and we're going to be okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, work always matters. You just always got to get done, um, but you do have to, you really do have to have the ability to focus on yourself and give yourself that time, so that, uh, makes a lot of sense. Anything else you'd like to talk about?
Speaker 2:Um, I think the the kind of like final thing I would remind everyone is um, don't start your messaging, don't start your campaigns, don't try to have this impact or influence too late. So many people are like, oh okay, this is the year that we're going to talk about this. Next year we're going to talk about that. We know, maybe in the next administration this will be an issue.
Speaker 2:Consistency and persistence is like the most important part to getting your message out, and so how do you get out early?
Speaker 2:How are you laying the groundwork for your messages ahead of time, not just calling on people when you need them, but really engaging with them over time, with the same values, the same messaging, the same benefits.
Speaker 2:They can be packaged differently, but they should be at their core the same. They can be packaged differently, but they should be at their core the same. So I think that's the one thing that I would say is very important to be considering in your strategy or in your partner, whoever you're working with, whether it be internal or external, making sure that they're thinking ahead too and that everyone's not just thinking in the moment, because if you're only focused on how this one action is going to impact the next week, you might be actually hurting yourself for the long term. Um, so that's, I think the biggest thing that I would say is when you're, when you're working together with people, when we're working with folks is just making sure you're getting out early, but you're considering that long-term goal as well yeah, and on the other, the other side of that right, the second, you stop communicating.
Speaker 1:People forget and memories are very, very short-lived and for decision makers, especially when you're looking at budget, it's important to remember that communications it's not a sunk cost right. It's an iterative investment and it does go away very quickly if you don't give it care and feeding.
Speaker 2:I'm sure too many of my clients have heard me repeat the phrase like we don't want to be reintroducing ourselves over and over again, because then people are like why do I know you? Why am I listening to you? You've built up credibility, don't let it die. So, yes, that's something that we talk about a lot and why. You know just maybe ad targeting from nine to five is not the right thing to do, or just being in this one publication. You want to be everywhere, because then you're not having to spend all that time ramping back up again and wasting all your efforts from the past.
Speaker 1:It's been an absolute pleasure having you, Maggie. Thanks for taking the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, Justin.
Speaker 1:Been a pleasure. Thank you for tuning in to Interesting People. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you liked what you heard, be sure to subscribe, rate and review the podcast on your favorite platform, and don't forget to follow us on social media for updates and behind-the-scenes content.
