Embracing Vulnerability: A Deep Dive into Men’s Mental Health (Elite)

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Join an intimate conversation with two visionary thought leaders as they shed light on the transformative power of vulnerability in men's mental health. With unflinching honesty, they share their personal odysseys of resilience and triumph, illuminating the path to healing and growth.


Delve into the episode's key takeaways, including:


- The courage to defy societal norms and embrace emotional expression
- Practical strategies for fostering open dialogue and meaningful connections
- The interplay between mental well-being, physical activity, and therapy
- Inspiring stories from the forefront of the wellness movement


Immerse yourself in this profoundly insightful discussion, replete with actionable wisdom and a profound reminder that vulnerability is a beacon of strength.

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Transcript

Welcome to the Crazy Fitness Guy Elite, your premier destination for transformative insights, expert guidance
and unparalleled motivation. Join Jimmy Clare, a distinguished thought leader, renowned motivational
speaker and devoted autism advocate, as he shares inspiring stories, cutting edge strategies and actionable
advice to empower you to shatter obstacles, unlock your potential, and achieve crazy, amazing results.
Weekly motivation that has been listened to all over the world. Listen to our podcast on all the major
platforms. Tune in to listen and watch every week. We cover everything that is healthy living. We
promote healthy living through artistic honest. Hosted by Jimmy Claire, who is a motivational speaker
and autism advocate. Jimmy has been featured in many publications around the world. This is the weekly
motivation with Crazy Fitness Guy. Welcome to another episode. This guy has 11 podcast
recommendations with Crazy Fitness Guy. Uh, before we get started and I forgot to do this like the last
two shows. But anyway, if you want to follow me on social media, you can follow me on Facebook and
Instagram and speaker on Twitter. You can follow these events on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at
Crazy Fitness Guy. Make sure you subscribe to the crazy events on Twitch, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter,
LinkedIn, and maybe some vibes if they let me back on on livestream. I know they're under new
management and they're all a bunch of crazy people over there. And after that kind of crazy. And once
this episode is live, you can see on Apple, Google, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcast. And let's
just dive into the show today. Today's guest, uh, Jeremy Grater and Zack Tucker. They're, uh, they're the
founders and hosts of the fitness for podcast. For nearly a decade, they have personally learned more
about their own physical, emotional, and mental health. This has created a passion for using their
acquired knowledge to help others. As host of the show since 2017. They have had the opportunity to
speak to a wide range of guests, including some of the biggest names in health and wellness. I feel
jealous. I want some big names in health and wellness. Uh, I'm. I should start collaborating with them.
Ooh, that was really fun. I should go up on their show. Uh, but. And so let's walk on the mount and
maybe, uh, they'll give me some tidbits here, and I'll make sure you see what they have to say. Oh.
Exactly. Jeremy. Hey, Jimmy. We're here. Man. We're the big names you've been waiting for. We finally
made it. So before we get started, can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, how you got
started, and why you got started? Sure. So we have lived a life that was a struggle and, you know,
relative struggle for each of us. And we got through it. I mean, we can talk we can talk in more detail
about that. But, you know, a lot of the things that Jeremy and I went through in our lives was really hard
and took a lot of resilience to get to where we're at. And, you know, when we got to our I don't know
what, mid 30s, we kind of looked at each other and we're like, hey, we're still trying to improve. We're
still trying to be better people. We're still, you know, what are you doing? What am I doing here? How,
you know, we're having these really vulnerable conversations with each other about how we've struggled
our whole lives and how we've gotten to a place where we're, you know, pretty good. Um, and we really,
you know, we found that it was really helpful for us to have those conversations. And then we realized
that nobody was having those conversations in, you know, in the men's world. Right? And men weren't
really talking about their feelings and vulnerability and what they're struggling with and the things that
they were doing to get better. Um, so Jeremy had been in podcasting for years and years and years and
years, and I had been telling people what to do for years and years and years and years and years. And I
was like, well, this is a really good combination and marriage of two skill sets. So I told him that we
should do a podcast on vulnerability and, and all of these things. And, and he looked straight into my
eyes and I was like, heck no, not doing it. Next, please. And I'll let him take over from there. Yeah. I
mean, basically, I, you know, I didn't feel like I was anyone qualified to tell anyone else how to live their
life or to give advice. You know, the the other podcast I'd been doing were largely just, you know,
getting really drunk and telling stupid stories about, you know, my failures in life. Uh, so it was a hard
one, 80 to figure out. How do I, you know, share this growth journey that I'm on in a way that's helpful
for somebody else without any sort of credential or training or anything. Uh, but, you know, the more we
talked about it, the more we realized the conversations we were having with each other were incredibly,
incredibly helpful. The things he was telling me were helping me, the things I was telling him were
helping him and just sort of realized, hey, if we can help each other, why not put this out, you know, put
these conversations out for someone else. And, you know, hopefully it's it's the thing they need to hear,
the way they need to hear it at the time. They need to hear it, uh, to make some changes for, for a better
life. And that's really where the show launched. And, uh, we've been going strong ever since. I love that a
lot. Especially because sometimes when I feel when I made this show, I'm thinking. Sometimes I feel like
I'm not qualified because I don't have all this amazing credentials everyone else has. I had some people
on my show who had like something like eight, nine, ten different, uh, degrees in the background, and all
I got is what you see on the screen. And I was like, it's not that it's not impressive, but I'm like, okay,
here's a good person who's really good and what they do, and all I got is a bunch of qualifications and is
like, but, but you're also an expert in your own life and your own experience. And if that's what you're
sharing, nobody knows more about it than you. Like, you can read all the books in the world, but
nobody's lived your experience the way you have, and that's what makes you an expert. And if you've
found things that help you and improve your life, who better to hear about that than from you? Exactly.
Yeah, and that's what I based the show off of, sharing some, uh, from my point of view. But then I also
have the experts to fill in to the other stuff because as I can't possibly know everything. I'm not that good,
though. And even they don't know everything either. And I would even add that, like the lack of degrees
or certifications does not make you unqualified. Um, you know, to, to Jeremy's point, like, your life has
qualified you in certain ways, so. And I'll and I'll throw it around the flip side to those people with
degrees and certifications does not necessarily mean they're qualified either, right? It's all individual and,
you know, perspective. And, you know, things that I say to one person will land differently on who's
receiving the information. So, you know, I would I would even argue like degrees don't make you
qualified or unqualified or the lack of them don't make you qualified or unqualified. I think the only time
where I would say, I mean, I would say the only time, but. The type of people that really often I would
say, as long as you're not doing an open heart surgery and you don't have enough, and if you don't have a
degree, that's a problem. But, uh, yeah, yeah. And a lot of what we do to like, especially on our show is,
is, you know, we're we're not telling people what to do. Right. Or, you know, we have disclaimers and all
kinds of things on our show. We really talk about things that have helped us, things that haven't helped
us, that might help the next person. Um, and I think one of the biggest, um, bits that we talk about on our
show and when we talk to other shows is curiosity. So like what, you know, if I, if I mentioned the keto
diet or, you know, something along those lines, we don't expect somebody to just go out blindly follow it
like we really want them to be curious about what the keto diet is, how it's going to impact them. Is it
right for them? Is it wrong for them? The curiosity of yourself is is probably one of the you know,
everyone asks us, what's the one thing that we can do to change our lives? Be curious. Just be curious. So
absolutely, it's not open heart surgery. We're literally just going, hey, maybe a little different. Hey, maybe
go for a walk. Hey, maybe do this. And if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. So you're
you're absolutely right. It's not open heart surgery. So my next question for you guys are, why do you
think some men are not willing to be open and talking about their feelings and mental health, because
obviously exists in all of us. And there's some people who are like, I know who's they talking to? A
therapist is weird. I'm like, it's not that we're not trained to do. Yeah, well, I mean, I think for guys
especially, it's it's how we're raised. I mean, I do think that this is shifting in current generations, but I
know in mine, you know, I heard toughen up more than once. Right. Like the idea of having feelings,
crying as a guy, like having emotions was not something that was necessarily welcome. Uh, or if it was,
it wasn't taught in a way that was productive. So I've had to really sort of unlearn all of my stigma around
it. I, you know, I was exposed to therapy pretty early on as a kid, and I always found it really helpful
because when you realize that therapy isn't somebody going in and altering anything about you. It's
largely them holding up a mirror and reflecting back everything you say to them, so you can sort of hear
it in a different way. For guys especially, I know I'm talking about myself. We spend a lot of time in our
heads trying to like, analyze, figure out something, you know, problem solve, but we don't actually say
the words out loud and literally just saying the words out loud. Your brain hears it differently and solves
the problem differently. So if you can not only have your brain hear you say it differently, but have
somebody else hear what they, you know, reflect back what they hear when you say it. It just helps you
process that same information that you spin about in your head over and over again into something more
productive. And so it's, you know, it's it's cultural. It's just the way it's kind of always been. Uh, but I do
think that there's a lot of promise and there's a lot of shifting happening toward just, I mean, just the fact
that you and I are having this conversation right now, that there is space for for three guys to get together
and talk about, you know, what it's like to have these feelings and to have to struggle with sharing them.
Uh, just shows that there is more of an of an opening and an awakening to this as a, as a normal thing so
that guys can have a full human experience and not be expected to be, you know, productivity robots. I
also want to talk to the therapist. Like in karate. Go punch something. I always find some good ideas
when I'm punching a bag because yeah, I'm a big fan of of somatic therapies like that. Like, I believe that
a lot of, like, the depression and anxiety and the mental health struggles that we have are literally stored
energy in our body that is just trapped and needs an outlet. So hitting a bag, screaming, punching a
pillow. There's a lot of different therapies that I've used. Like, I mean things even like yoga,
weightlifting, like anything that moves your body and challenges it and stresses your muscles really just
helps release that energy and move it through you in a more productive way, rather than just hanging on
to it and letting it, you know, create stories about how horrible you are, how you're catastrophizing
everything that's going to happen in your life if you can. If you find a way to harness that energy and
really move it, that's where, like you said, those best ideas and and progress really comes from. So I think
the other aspect, this, uh, just curious, has anyone ever told you you have, like a movie star somewhere?
Uh, yes. I actually hear it quite a bit. Um. How can they start opening it up for a conversation instead of
just being up here all the time? It's a good question. If we had the answer to that, uh, well, I think I think
we do. I mean, when I mean just our conversations, right? I mean, you you start with the the friends
you're closest with, right? For us, uh, Zach and I were on a very similar journey. Our. The reason we met
was because our wives were pregnant at the same time. And so we were, you know, involved in these
fitness activities that our wives were doing. And so we got sort of roped into it because, you know, if, if
they're friends, then we had to be friends. And, you know, we had a lot in common because we had a lot
of the same fears and stresses about what was coming down the road as new parents. So you got to find
the people that you share some commonality with, as you know, to begin with and then start testing the
waters, right? I mean, for us, it wasn't like, hey, hey, Zach, what happened to you when you were six?
Right. It was you start with talking about the game because that's what everybody talks about. And then
maybe you float out like, hey, so how are you doing with this? Like how you know what's going on at
work? Are you stressed as a dad? Like kind of throwing those softballs out there to to test the waters.
And when it lands, then, you know, this is somebody who you might be able to go a little bit deeper with,
but also like, there's the people that are going to be turned off by that and you're going to scare them
away. For me, that that's great. I like filtering out and knowing that I don't need to waste time trying to
build deeper relationships with people that aren't ready for it and can't handle it. So you have to be
willing to risk a little bit. You have to be willing to lose a little bit. But I mean, the safest way, honestly,
is probably starting with like a therapist or someone who is an independent third party, that somebody
who is not going to bring judgment into the room, they're going to bring in, you know, a clinical lens and
hold up that mirror and show you that you can say these things out loud and it's going to be okay. And
once you've tested that, and once you feel safe there, then honestly, a therapist will give you some more
tools to expand even further into into your normal conversations with people. But it's all just it is risky,
and you have to be willing to to lose a little bit to gain. I think so much more. Mhm. Yeah. I'll, I'll double
down on the therapist part. I mean there is, you know, patient um client confidentiality too right. I mean
the things you say in there are not going to leave the room. Right. If you talk to a friend or you know,
someone like that, they're there. You know, if you're going to if you're just diving into this, like, you
know, that might be a concern. So definitely go talk to a therapist or a coach or somebody who's going to
keep that information private until you're ready. Like for me, I noticed that I have, uh, I have a couple of
best friends that I tell a lot of things to, and there's a lot of people who I just say. They tell stuff, but not
in detail. Or I just give them a little bit of distance just from some past experience. I'm not going to name
any names just because some of them might listen to the show, and I'm going to keep them guessing. You
can write a whole story or just a point. I'm not. I'm not going to say squat. I think that's right. They can
call my lawyer. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, the people that you are keeping at a distance, it's
going to be very individual. It's going to depend on that person. But I think a lot of us are craving
vulnerability. We're craving connection, especially in this cyber connected world where these are most of
the conversations we're having are over screens, and we're not in the same room with people as much as
we used to be. So, you know, I would test those waters like, kind of like and maybe don't open up about
you, but ask. Right. Ask the other person and invite it from them so that they feel safe. Because, I mean,
you know, you've done enough of these interviews, I think, to know that people love talking about
themselves. So if you give them an opportunity to talk about themselves and what they're going through,
you might be surprised how much they'll open up to you and make you feel safe going. Oh that's crazy. I
have the same thing. I feel the same way I go through that too. And that bond can be created. So I mean, I
wouldn't necessarily, you know, run down to the bus stop and just shouting at strangers about, you know,
how you cry sometimes, but you know, when you're hanging out with friends, ask them some questions
about their feelings. Is that frowned upon? I think I think generally I could. I could picture seeing
somebody doing that. I bet you if I googled it on YouTube, I'm sure someone already has done that.
There's probably a very successful YouTube channel of somebody going to a bus stop and shouting their
feelings at people. It's it's a very niche program that I think people would be really into. Yeah. So my
next question for you guys are, uh, what kind of guests have you have on hand on your show? Uh, can
you share some of those, I guess? Uh, no, I'm stalking them or anything. I mean, yeah, no, it's, uh, I
mean, it's all out there. Um, we've had I mean, we've had some pretty big names. We've had, you know,
Ryan Holiday, Sean Tee, Dave Asprey, Gary John Bishop, uh, Gretchen Rubin, I'm forgetting. Yeah.
Keep going. Yeah. Tony Horton. Um, you already mentioned Shante. Uh, Greg Everett. A great, uh,
Olympic training, uh, athlete and author. Just tons of people that we've been incredibly privileged to, to
be able to, you know, pick their brains and have some personal therapy sessions with and learn from. So,
yeah, a long list. We've done 260 something episodes as of this recording. And, you know, the vast
majority of them are with, uh, with guests. And so, yeah, you can you can find them all on our website.
Yeah. That's amazing because like, uh, I just started, uh, I mean, I'm been I'm currently almost up to 80
episodes at the moment. I really say we release every month, once a month only because I'm only one
person. Uh, if somebody could call me, like, six different times, the concerning. I need to even talk. I just
just point and just go do something. Right? Right. And I would definitely do legally if I could, but, uh.
Too much promotion. Too many. Too many things to do. Promoting everything else. I mean, not being
lazy on it or anything, just being realistic is like, how do I maintain this going years to come? Yeah,
roughly. Or do I do weekly and burn myself out quickly? Right. And that's a that's a good lesson for
anybody listening to this. I think a lot of us tend to over invest ourselves in things that we don't
necessarily have time for. So it's it's really important, I think, to to have a look in the mirror and go, what
am I really capable of doing here? Let's get real with this and take into account the fact that you you do
need downtime. You do need time to rest. You do need time to recover. You do need time for family and
all the, you know, paying your bills and all the obligations. So there's there's absolutely nothing wrong
with saying, I only have so much time for this and drawing that line in the sand. Yeah. I mean, we can we
can speak from experience. When we started our show, I think we released once every two weeks,
something like that. Yeah. Then we then we went weekly and then we went twice a week. And then life
happened and we're like, ooh, twice a week's a lot. Let's go back down to a week and you know like. Life
gets in the way and like and we struggle sometimes to to get that out there. But yeah. Um, I would never
clone myself personally just simply because, like people have, the world's got enough of you already.
There's already wanted me to deal with like six of me would be way too much. I wouldn't wish that on
anyone. Well, you know, I was thinking, because if there were six of me. Because then they get, like, all
different kinds of of chimneys, I was like, be the original and then be some other kind of you just. I just
imagine how open and vulnerable you could be with those guys. I mean, nobody knows you better, right?
Exactly. I feel like if I did that, like, I'd get nothing done because all six of me would fight with each
other, you know, I don't want to be. And I want to. That's why they they shouldn't talk at all. That'd be
really creepy, though, because, uh, I remember there's some, like, some TV shows and some movies I've
seen where they, like, have one episode of somebody just, like, clone themselves and the movie and
they're just talking to each other. And I was like, that's kind of creepy just talking to myself. How are you
doing? I'm good. What about the other Jimmy? Well, sometimes I think it's creepier when I, you know,
we're doing one of these episodes by ourselves, and I'm just talking to myself in a room by myself. I
think that's a little creepier than talking to cloned versions of me. Yeah, I used to. There was only 1 or 2.
Okay, three episodes that I've done by myself. And then there's the reason why I have guests that I was.
And I was like, I can't listen to myself talk. That's enough of me. I've had enough of me. Exactly. I want
like a James Earl Jones voice or micro voice or some sort of either my voice. Yeah. Who doesn't want
one of those voices? My voice sounds like a nail on a chalkboard. It doesn't. Darth Vader is the voice in
my head sometimes, so I kind of. I kind of live with James Earl Jones. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah, I can have. I
can picture that from my vantage. Sometimes it's like there's like institutional things. Um. Uh. So my
next question for you is, uh, how did you. How did you, uh, how did you start finding what was it like to
reach out to those kind of guests on your show, which is like, wait, are you guys a bunch of nobody's
talking about your feelings or, uh, I mean, like, rash Auntie Tonya Harding or. I mean, it's I think it's
similar to what I was talking about with being vulnerable. Like, you just have to take the risk, right?
Like, the answer is no until you ask. And so you have to ask to even have a shot. So it's, you know. Yeah.
At first you're, you're a little nervous, like, oh, what are they going to reject me. What's going to happen?
But in the end, like if they reject you, what's different. They the answer was no yesterday. If the answer is
no today, cool. Like I better I better come up with a way to make it a yes next time. So it's it's a learning
lesson, right? Like, you just you just have to take the chance and and put yourself out there and, you
know, I mean, for any podcaster or interviewer who's, who's, you know, wrestling with this, like, what's
in it for them? Uh, offer to them what, what value it brings to them. Like what audience are they going to
reach? How dedicated is your listener? You know? And the more you can make it about them and just
take the risk and ask them, you'd be surprised how often they'll say yes, because again, who doesn't love
talking about themselves? Mhm. I actually had a, uh, two groups, uh, to, uh, USA today's best selling
authors yesterday on my show. It's not out yet, but, uh. Hey, what was really, really cool was, uh, let's say
I've been reading their series that they were in and it's. Well, basically, I really love the series. And, uh,
when I got down to my show house, the other, uh, like a few weeks ago, I was like, you know, I, I, I
waited long enough. I still haven't finished the book, all the books yet, but I was like, I'm gonna reach out
to them, see what they have to say. And I'll just like what you said. And I was like, why they didn't do
this? Say no. I was like, okay. I was like, but it's like, I want to feature them on my show and talk about
the book. And I was like, I really shared interested in the book. Uh, and so I reached out to them within
an hour, they, uh, reached out to me as like, we would love to be on your show. And I'm like, okay, I
have goosebumps as like, I'm kind of scared. I was like, uh, yeah. Uh, what was amazing, though, is that,
uh, like, they're like super, super nice and like, holy crap. I was like, uh, I mean, on Wednesday, like, I
wasn't expecting them to not be nice, but, you know, so USA today's best thing out there. And Jimmy
and Claire, who's, uh, nobody but but are you I mean, you do this show, people show up that you've
created a relationship with them. So you bring value to people's lives just because you don't have a best
selling book. You know, there's. I heard somebody talking about this, and I'm going to mess this up. This.
This is me being vulnerable. I don't really know what I'm talking about, but somebody was talking about
quantum theory the other day and how it translates down to even the small actions matter. So like
whether you are the baker or the butcher, the guy that sells the shoe or the president or the USA today
bestselling author, whatever you're doing has impact on the universe on some level. So you talking to us
right now is going to make an impact on somebody's life somewhere. And that can have a ripple effect
that, you know, we have we will never understand. So from the author's point of view, they probably
spent years writing a book and somebody wants to ask them about it, and they have an opportunity to sell
a few more copies by doing it. Yeah, they're going to jump at that. Why not? So I think, uh, I think,
Jimmy, you've got a few limiting beliefs that are, that are getting in your way of, uh, reaching new
heights that are just beyond your reach. I agree with that. I don't call it, I like to, I'm just trying to stay
humble is because there's so much more here. Let's just say I've seen over the years of in the either in the
podcast industry where there's like, oh, I know everything. And then they refuse to keep learning. And
then where if I say, oh, I'm super big and then somebody's gonna find out, oh, I'm not really big at all. I'd
rather be an open and transparent and say, yes, I'm not Joe Rogan, I'm not Louis Howes, I'm not Tony
Robbins. Uh, but, you know, it doesn't mean that I won't be there one day or or another. Like, literally a
podcast download could just take off and you never know instantly. Yeah, you never know unless they
want to be a viral content, uh, TikTok video where somebody is doing something stupid. I think we all
worry about that. Yeah. Yeah. It's like I don't want to do something stupid. Yeah, I, I maybe have said
some stupid things on social media. Like, I mean, I'm not like too edgy stupid, but, I mean, I might have
put my own foot in my mouth a few times and I owned up to it. But as I, I don't want to do something
totally stupid. Yeah, but honestly, like, we get plenty of hate on TikTok. We get plenty of comments that,
you know, insult me. Call us stupid, call our opinions. Wrong or ridiculous? Like, cool. I'm glad they live
in a world where they need to insult other people, or to to point out what they see as flaws in others.
Again, we share our perspective. We're not wrong about our perspective. We're not wrong about our
experience. So people can hate all they want. Cool. Good for them. That must be a really crappy way to
live. All I'm trying to do is share my experience so that somebody else who is struggling the way I once
struggled and still, you know, honestly do sometimes if they can hear what they need to hear the right
way, at the right time to make a big change in their life. Totally worth all of the morons on TikTok that
you know that want to spew their hate. Yeah, and I, I will. I don't care about coming off as stupid or
doing something stupid necessarily, because the people who will judge me based on that are not the
people I really want to be around. Right. Um, to Jeremy's point, the the people who comment at us in a in
a negative fashion, I hope they find what they're looking for. I really do. But it's it takes no part of my
brain or my conscious, the hate or, you know, negative things that they're spreading because it just
doesn't matter to me. Right. To Jeremy's point, we are right from our perspective, a certain point of view.
Right. If we're going to quote Star Wars. Mhm. We are right and there's nothing wrong with with that.
And Jeremy and I are open to like if we believe something and we find evidence that's counter to that, we
own up to it. We're okay admitting we're wrong. Yeah. Um, but yeah. No, I say do the stupid thing
because the people, the people you want in your life are the ones who are going to support you and laugh
even when you're doing something stupid. So my next question for you guys are, what kind of struggles
did you have to go through this, uh, overcoming, um, mental health? How about we list the ones I didn't
have to struggle? It's a shorter list. Yeah, that's the last thing I did. Uh, no. Uh, so for me, I, I run, I run on
the anxious side. Um, my, you know, anxiety is there's some evidence that it's a genetic trait. My mother
was super anxious. Um, I was also raised in in a way that was super neglectful. Um, you know, 4 or 5, six
years old, I would be left at home for 4 or 5 days at a time. Um, you know, just set up this ridiculous
childhood trauma. Um, and because of that anxiety. Because that anxiety rants. Oh, hi. There was a lot of
depression involved. There was a lot of, um, there still is imposter syndrome. Like, I don't think I'm good
enough and I don't think, um, you know, I was told my whole life that I'm stupid and I'm actually fairly
intelligent, but I still think I'm stupid. I still have these these, you know, calls at work or or, you know,
conversations with people and they're like, hey, that was really smart. Why didn't we. Like that's
amazing. Like, you're a really smart guy. And I'm like, ah, I got them fooled, right? It's still there. So I
that's been my struggle my whole life is really this anxiety. And it was so bad when I was, I don't know,
22, 22, 23 after I got through like the partying days because like, you know, give me a little alcohol, that
anxiety went away. I was good then, but it was so bad in those early days that I couldn't really talk to
people. I didn't like going to the grocery store because I had to be around people. What's that one? Like
that little kid that's like, uh oh, people. That was me. That was all me. I couldn't I couldn't have
conversations. I had trouble having conversations with women like males, like just across the board.
Super, super, super bad anxiety. Um, and it took years to to, you know, put in place all these little tools
and techniques to tame it. And then even still, when I was 30, after I'd been working on all these things to
tame that anxiety, I was officially diagnosed. Like, they, you know, they ran me through this whole, um,
series of tests and they were like, so here's the top of the scale for anxiety. You're way up here. And what
I thought was totally normal, and I thought that I'd totally beaten it and gotten by. They were like, yeah,
no, you're still an anxious ball and you need to deal with this stuff. So and again, for the next 15 years,
I've been doing meditation and making sure I'm moving my body and like all these things that deal with
my anxiety to the point where. I still have really bad anxiety, but I don't think you'd ever be able to tell
from the surface. That's bad. And I've lived with depression my entire life. I'm right now I'm in the
middle of the longest stretch of my entire life without a major depressive episode. I don't think I've had
one since, like, November, and it's as a result of the tools that I put in place to manage it. I've been able to
recognize that overwhelm is largely the trigger for it. When when everything feels like too much, my
system just shuts down and I cannot get out of it. And through a lot of different, uh, exercise routines,
just different things and feeding my body different mindsets, different, you know, tools like cold,
plunging and meditation, different things that I, that I have in my in my toolkit. I can start to recognize it
sooner and I can make more conscious decisions about the way I respond before it would look like, you
know, a tsunami wave that was just inevitable, and I would just let it wash over me and wait until, you
know, the the sea's receded back out into the ocean. And it would sometimes take days where I like, I
didn't want to leave my room. I just wanted to be in a dark space, alone and not have to interact with
anyone because I couldn't handle it. But now I can start to feel it coming. I can see the wave and I have
the tools to either get in a boat, grab a life ring, or do something about it and prevent it from washing
over me the way it used to. So, you know, I still certainly get down right? Like I'll have bad, bad days.
Bad feelings. Uh, and I'm able to better recognize that, you know, this feeling is a result of this trigger.
There's something that's that's making me feel this way. And so rather than going, well, it's depression.
Here it goes again. I'm able to, like, rationalize, okay, this is a normal human response to be upset about
this thing that happened. It's okay. It's going to be okay tomorrow. What can we do with this energy? Can
we go to the gym and throw some heavy things around? Can we go for a long hike? Like what can I do to
manage it? So that's that's been the big one for me. Um, you know, up until the point of having these
tools, I certainly relied on alcohol to manage my feelings. You know, anything that felt uncomfortable,
you just pour some beer on it and it goes away real quick. Social anxiety I still deal with, I mean, to
Zach's point about, you know, going to the grocery store. I still don't like going out with a lot of people
because I'm I'm nervous about talking to people because my thoughts don't always match up with the
words that are coming out. The words are usually sort of the the friendly small talk, you know, how are
you doing? What's going on with you? Oh, what are you guys doing this weekend? And inside I'm just
thinking, God, I hope they don't figure out what a what a fraud and a loser I am. Right, like there's this
conflict. And so I still struggle with with the anxiety part of that and certainly just crowds and all that is
too much traffic. I can't handle it anymore. Um, so, I mean, there's there's tons of mental health stuff, but
depression has been really my, my Achilles heel for most of my life. But I think I finally am at a place
where I can relatively safely say I've beaten it. I think for me, I have there's a few times where I want to
do fashion. Back in, when I was a Game Boy for eight plus years in public school growing up, and then
when, uh, just recently, I kind of fell into, I want to say the present day, I was just I was in a funk and I
couldn't get out of it. And I was like, no matter what I was trying to do was kind of get out of it. I was
like, what's it going to take to get out of this annoying phone call? Like everything was just like, I don't
feel like doing this. I don't feel like doing that. I was like, I mean, it wasn't like I lost interest in stuff, but
even that in the podcast was just like, I don't even want to do my own voice. I don't feel like marketing. I
don't feel like doing this. I feel like the list goes on and on and on. When I when I was up at karate three
days a week, I was like, um, punching, punching, punching. And as I wasn't part of that either, but
because I was in a funk, I was not enjoying being in the present moment, all I was thinking was like, oh,
it's not. I didn't bring blah blah, blah, blah blah. And what took me was, took me out of the funk was I
attended this webinar by one of my colleagues and, uh, the reason I didn't name his name is because one,
I didn't ask him until, uh, in case if he doesn't do another event, I don't want to like this thing. Oh, yeah,
he does all these. Free of violence. And then somebody got the hopes up. So, uh, I'm just gonna leave that
aside at the moment, but, uh, I attended one of those events. Even, um, it made me, um, miss karate, but I
was like, I need to get myself out of this funk. And if I don't get myself out of this funk, I'm going to
keep doing the same thing over and over and over again. And I hate being on that hamster wheel that just
keeps going on and on and on. And so I find that when I tend to spend everything that I was feeling right
then and there, it was about just like, uh, how to get more leads as a, as a keynote speaker. And I was
like, I want to do this for my career. I got to do this for myself. And like, I will always have more
opportunities to do karate, but to attend this kind of event. And I was like, and know it was given for free.
And it's like there's not many people to do that for free. There's always a free. But and we'll try to say 6
million things at that event to and so and meeting him in person last year and staying in touch with them,
he literally is the real deal. He's like Tony, he's like Tony Robbins, uh, he sells out. He's I mean, he's he's
booked all over the place, uh, trying to get in touch with them. Sometimes they, they're, uh, to, uh,
collaborate with is like pulling teeth. Sometimes it's like, gosh, you're a busy person. It's like, one day
you're gonna be in my shoes. It's like, I hope so, then I really hope so. But his webinar kind of just got me
out of the funk, and it wasn't like I wasn't trying any of the stuff that I learned from my therapist. Like, I,
I, I keep exercising, uh, six days a week. Uh. That kind of helps. But I was like just kind of masking
everything. And then it was basically a I know, let's just say, uh, I was feeling down because of like, uh,
I'm still kind of recovering from the pandemic, from the, uh, and now inflation with my business. So it's
like, okay, I'm feeling down about this. How can I get. So I was trying to implement new things for the
business and implement this and implement strategies to pay myself back for all of the business expenses
over the years. So I was like, okay, let's make this plan, let's do this, set some monetization goals and my
budget app. And but the webinar really helped me because it's like knowing him, I think it I, I don't see
why it wouldn't work. I mean, it's like I wouldn't say it's bulletproof, but at least got me out of this gosh
darn fine. I may have just did not get together. Yeah, well, and it's hard. I mean, it sounds like you were
kind of stuck in your routine and there wasn't anything really shaking anything up. And sometimes you
have to just make that intentional choice to do something out of the ordinary. Just your brain craves new
things. We all get kind of sucked into the hamster wheel of, you know, working 9 to 5 and then sitting in
traffic if you're, you know, unfortunate enough to have to still go to the office, you know, you get home.
It's kind of the same dinner, like, same routine over and over again. Life can get kind of boring and kind
of kind of drag you down. So it's it was a good plan to see an opportunity of what? What can I do
different? How can how can I disrupt this pattern and just try something different? And that's honestly a
lot of what I do with the various tools I have is it's I'll be doing my routine, but I have other things that I
don't do as much. And so I can decide, oh, maybe I'll throw that at it. Maybe I'll go run on a mountain
today instead of, you know, going to the gym or whatever. And just like having that new experience or
something to just kind of light your brain up in a different way and kind of shift your perspective on the
opportunities you have in your life. Yeah. And and also I look at a funk, like a good funk as a good thing,
a really, really good thing. Because if you're having one, you really. For me, anyway, I lean into it and I
feel it, and I really lock in that feeling of what it's like to be in that funk, because that reminds you later
on of all the things that you're doing. So if you don't want to go to the gym or you don't want to go talk to
your therapist, you don't want to go do this or you don't want to go do that. You just remember that, like I
do these things consistently to prevent from being in that place. But it's inevitable. We're all going to
have ups and downs and ups and downs, and you're going to hit that funk at some point. But when you do
get everything you can out of it, feel it really, really remember what it is that you're feeling and why you
do all the things to stay out of the funk like that. It's inevitable, so why not use it for a positive like it?
You know, squeeze juice out of that as you possibly can. And even if you don't like, suffer from clinical
depression, but people still just get depressed. It's a it's a normal human, you know, emotion. Uh, there
was this great video I've seen a million times of Jim Carrey talking about depression and how he talks
about, you know, the word depressed and how if you break it down, it's deep rest, like your body is
requiring deep rest. You get sort of tired of playing the character you play in your life all the time and
wearing all the masks you have to wear, whether it's as a podcast host or author or speaker or mom or
dad or husband, whatever, whatever character you have to play, you get tired of playing that character.
And so your body just kind of goes, we just need a break. And that break can be that rest or that break
can be a break from this routine and shaking it up and doing something different. But again, it's just very
normal and whatever you can do, like Zach said, soak it up, learn from it, feel it so that when you don't
feel it, you appreciate not feeling it even more, or just give yourself the time to to. I mean, honestly, that
was that was what I often needed. It's I always kind of saw it as like a flu, you know, when I would get
the flu. Do I feel bad about myself because I got the flu? No, I got sick. What do I need to do to get
better? I need to rest, see, rest. The wave passes, it goes away. You come back and, you know, appreciate
the ability to get out of bed and and function and live a normal life in a healthy way. So just, you know,
there's there's a lot of lessons to learn from it, right? It's like Ryan Holiday's book The Obstacle Is the
Way. That's just one of those obstacles that that life is trying to show you. This is something you have to
get through to overcome to be even better tomorrow. I like what you said, especially because during that
funk, uh, the few things I took away from that was that I didn't. Some I just, I did some. Some marketing
tests seven days a week that five days a week that didn't really need to be done that many times a week.
And I was like, realistically, why? Why is it still that five days a week that I say it's like, that's pretty
stupid. And so, uh, basically, I let myself have that whole day just to do absolutely nothing. Except I did I
did promise one of my colleagues who written a new book in the series, I had him on just a day. I was
like, but I spent pretty much all morning, mid-afternoon, doing nothing. And I was like, if this is the only
thing I do today, I want to enjoy them, to be with them. Uh, to be honest, I'll admit this on the show, I
didn't shower during that day, but I was like, I can't smell anything like a computer, but I. I wore my hat.
It's not like I, uh, but it didn't look like I was sloppy or anything. It just, uh, I had I had clean workout
clothes on. It wasn't like, uh, I had stains everywhere when I was like, no, I just, I just, like, my brain was
just overwhelmed. I couldn't stand anything. I was like, I kind of just wanted to flip off everybody that
day. I mean, not that I did that. It just. Yeah. How was it? Yeah. It's like Tony Horton says, do your best
and forget the rest. That day. That was your best. You showed up the best you could celebrate that, man.
Like, we can't all be perfect. We can't all wait. We can't all function at an optimized 100% success level
all the time. In fact, I think it's probably pretty rare. So, you know, just just striving for what's the best I
can bring today and just do your best to hit that. And you'll probably still fall short, but it's better to have
that thing to shoot for and fall short than to just sit it out. Yeah. Just to put numbers on it to like if if all
you have in your tank is 50% and you give it that 50%, you've given it 100% of what you have like, and
that's it. And be be okay with that. Be happy with it. Some days I only have 2% to give. And yeah, to
your point, I think my other key takeaways was of the of that day. I revamped some of my schedule again
and it was like my fourth schedule revamp in the seven years I've been in business. So as I'm okay and
it's not like I do it every other week, I just it's like I changed it. Uh. Out of the whole month. There's
probably like four days of the month as like very hectic. But as I try out in 30 days, I'm going to take it.
It's good. Uh, I wanted to take those numbers, but if I have to do it, fine. And some of these tests weren't
that bad, but just my brain was just making it harder than it really needs to be. And it's like, oh, come on,
it's just copy and paste and my brain's like, no, no, no. And it's like, oh, shut up, brain, what do you
know? I was like the other day they gave me the most dumbest idea ever. I'm like, yeah, so, so much for
you. So my last few questions for you are, uh, who's your favorite podcast there? Why? And feel free not
to say me favorite podcaster. Um, I think, uh, the one I go back to probably the most often is Marc
Maron. I really like his vulnerability, his openness about his own struggles, and I think he's a great
interviewer. Um, so yeah, I really I've been a big fan of WTF for a long time. So, uh, Marc Maron is
probably my go to way. That's a that's a really, really tough question. Um, I mean, there's hundreds. Um.
There are so many. While you're thinking I'll throw one more name out Neil Brennan's, uh, podcast
block. Block. Blocks. Blockers. Uh, fantastic. He talks to, you know, the celebrities we wish we were
talking to about their mental health struggles and the things they go through. So check out Neil Brennan's
podcast. Uh, geez. Um, I'm just looking through the list right now. I mean, there's, um, you know, what I
actually do have I do have a favorite that, uh, I know he's not really recording too many anymore, but,
um, so I work, you know, I work in a company, and I in senior leadership, so, like, leadership is a big
thing for me. I love leadership. And there's a guy named Jeff Atkin who does a leadership podcast, but
based on episodes of Star Trek. So he, like, walked as an episode of Star Trek. And there's a leadership
principle in there, and he he picks apart the episode and teaches you the leadership principle by by the
episode. That one is amazing. Um, and Sea Shanties podcast is always a good one. Um, Marc Maron,
love that. Um, the anxiety chicks love those girls. Um. And to be quite honest, I don't have time for the
long Joe Rogan episodes. And I know Joe Rogan is a is a love him or hate him kind of guy, but at the
very least he is very curious about all the topics, right? And I do love that aspect about him, even though
he is a very strong opinion on a lot of those topics. He is curious about them, and I love that, that that
ability that he has to kind of hit so many different topics on his show. So for me, I like the Lewis House,
the School of Greatness. Uh, I also, um, I also like to listen to I like a lot of, uh, self-improvement
leadership kind of stuff. Um, I like fitness nutrition as well. Uh, I pretty much subscribe to, like, 100 plus,
uh, podcasts. I mean, I was at on this day, I was saying that was, uh, because not every single thing
applies to me or that intrigues me, or things like one of them happens to be a marketing podcast and it's
like, oh, how do you, uh, get more leads with your ads? Since I don't use ads? Uh, I mean, like, I have
ads on my website, but I bet there's no ads for, uh, marketing ads on, uh, sponsored posts on Facebook
and Instagram. So I was like, okay, it doesn't apply to me not listening, but I don't have a couple of
hundred different podcasts to listen to. So something intrigues me. I come across it versus uh, which to to
do I listen to today eeny meeny miney moe. And it's slim pickings. Yeah, that's that's like me if I, uh, if I
don't have a book, I'm like, I missed reading. Well, what am I gonna read next? I don't have any
recommendations. Oh, damn. So my next question for you is, uh, where can people follow you, find you,
learn more about who you are and what you do. The simplest place is our website. It's the fitness.com,
and we're on all the social media channels at Fitness Guys. So, uh, check us out either of those places
and, uh, and check out the show. I'm definitely gonna subscribe. And, uh, maybe one day I could be on
your show. Too intense. Yeah, yeah, we'll talk about that. Well, I look forward to, uh, stay in touch with
you guys. And, uh, I would love to have you back on the show, uh, again in the future, because it was
awesome meeting you guys. And, uh, I keep up the good work, and I'm, uh, I'm going to subscribe to
your podcast because I'm very interested to learn more about who you are. Awesome. Thanks so much
for the opportunity. We appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you for having us. Have a good bye. See you. Dan.
Thanks. You too. Bye. So that's all the time that we have today. If you enjoy it, subscribe. Leave us a
review. I mean, how are we doing? In the meantime, stay healthy, stay safe and stay motivated. And I'll
be back for another brand new episode of crazy Healthy loving podcast slash weekly meditation with
crazy events guy. In the meantime. Peace. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Crazy Fitness Guy
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