Emma Flatley: Scaling a QLD Buyer's Agency in 6 Months

Emma Flatley went from selling agent to scaling Acquired Buyer's Advocacy across Queensland in just 6 months.

We cover:

• Making the jump from selling agent to buyer's agent
• Scaling a QLD buyer's agency fast
• What buyer's agents really do for you
• The Brisbane and Gold Coast markets through a buyer's lens

Full show notes + links: empirelegal.com.au/blog/news/episode-17-emma-flatley

Raising the Bar is Empire Legal's podcast for Queensland property - hosted by Brisbane-based conveyancing solicitor George Sourris. Visit empirelegal.com.au or call 07 3088 7675.

Transcript

Alright, we're kicking off season three of the Raising the Bar podcast with a bang. I've got a super special guest today, Emma Flatley, from Acquired Buyer's Agency. 

Hello, how are you? 

Good. Thank you for coming on the show today. 

Thank you for having me. 

My pleasure. Fun fact, guys. Emma, I've known for probably about eight years now since we started Empire. Mm-hmm. And as I recall, you were a selling agent back in the day. Yes. And your journey, you've been on a bit of a journey, you're now a buyer's agent. You've got your own buyer's agency. Yep. Yep. You're a mama. 

Yep.

Welcome to the Raising the Bar podcast, where we story tell excellence in Queensland Property. I'm your host, George Sourris from Empire Legal. 

A few things to unpack today. So let's just get straight into it. How it works - got three questions that we're going to go through. Mm-hmm. And then a little bit of a wrap up at the end. 

Perfect.

Alright, so for those who may not have listened to us before, Raising the Bar is the name of our podcast. The whole idea is to storytell excellence in Queensland Property. We think you're pretty excellent. Thanks. Let's just jump right into question one. Yep. So, I want to know your transition from being a seller's agent, to now being a buyer's agent with your own buyer's agency.

So, for the listeners out there, maybe you've got some selling agents that are considering becoming a buyer's agent. What does that look like? Like what skills transferred? Let's just start with maybe, yeah, a couple of minutes about your story, about how you were a seller's agent and now you're a buyer's agent.

Yeah. And then, um i'll guide you along the way with some more questions. 

Sounds good. So I, yeah, I've been in real estate now for, this is my 11th year. And yeah, obviously started from the bottom. My first job was a sales assistant and I was paid $23,000 a year. Yep. It's, uh, it's crazy to think that, but um, learning from the bottom and, and obviously building my way up has managed to, I've learned.

How to get to where I'm today. So I guess when I was on the sales side or an agent on the sales side, I just found I was really drawn to helping buyers find their properties. And I got more fulfillment from dealing with the buyers in terms of that transaction side of it, rather than the sellers.

I found there was a lot of, you know, sellers that j ust go with that stigma that's attached to sales agents, right? Like that they're, you know, not there to obviously support you as much as possible, whereas the buyers need that support, and I don't think that there was that element for them. 

Yeah.

Because I do notice that some selling agents are very hard down the line of like, my client is the seller and the buyer is, not the enemy, but they're like I don't care about the buyer. My, my priorities, the seller, which look, you're getting paid by the seller. But I believe the best in the business that I've witnessed over the years, they nurture buyers right? Yeah. 

Well, buyers are the next sellers. Yeah. 

Right. So I think that it's a big cycle. Yeah, it definitely is. But I think I, I was just drawn to obviously the gratefulness that I did get from buyers when you did help them or you went that extra mile. And I guess when it came to the point where. I wasn't really loving the sales side as much as I used to.

Mm-hmm. And then obviously the buyer's agent space was so new when I got into it seven years ago, so not many people knew what a buyer's agent was. Um, but I thought it was a great opportunity and I thought there was a hole there and, and that's. You know, it enticed me to jump into that space and I've honestly never looked back.

How long were you in the selling agent space for? How many years? 

It was roughly about four. Four, five-ish? 

Yeah. Okay. Yeah because I recall when you moved into the buyer's agent space, no one was doing it. You guys were almost like very early to market. Now there's lots of buyer's agencies that have popped up.

Mm-hmm. Certainly in the last sort of, since COVID, 3, 4, 5 years. Yeah. But back in the day, I re remember being quite a green property lawyer and I would never see that buyer's agent box filled out ever. And I remember seeing it once and I was talking to Abi and I'm like, what's this, what do we, what is that?

What do we do? And then, you know, it has its own nuances where obviously we need to make sure you guys are copied into the correspondence if we're representing a buyer, because you are their agent. Mm. So I think it's becoming more popular, but I still wouldn't say it's like super mainstream yet, right? Like it is in maybe other jurisdictions or overseas. 

Yeah, definitely. It's still very new. Yeah. Like when I first started in it, sales agents would ask me if I was going to steal their commission. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like their awareness around the fact that we're actually paid by buyer, 

yeah, 

was not there. And, uh, you know, its definitely been a lot of teething, but it's changed so much over the last seven years and you've just got buyer's agents popping up left, right, and center at the moment. 

Yeah, yeah. 

So yeah, it is becoming a little bit more challenging, but you can definitely tell who the dominant buyer's agents are, that have the experience, they have the connections, they understand how real estate works, which I think  is a massive important part of what being buyer's agent is.

It it's critical, right? And the fact that we've worked with you now for, for a while and you've got that track record and the experience, whereas there are these ones popping up. Where you know they've got their real estate license and, how do I say it in a political way? They may not have the skills, right. They don't and you can, the crazy thing is they can be out there and they can be charging dollar for dollar or cheaper or more expensive or whatever - it doesn't matter what their fees are, but they're standing next to you, but it's not necessarily the same product, because you've had years of training and experience.

Whereas they've just come in and said, oh, I am a buyer's agent now. Yeah. So it's a bit scary in that regard. Like cowboy, cowboy country a little bit. 

It a hundred percent. And I think, you know, those buyer's agents charge a lot lesser fees. Mm-hmm. Right. And, and I think fee is very relative to the service that you receive.

Yes. 

Right. And I think, you know, you're buying a person, a sales agent. You are hiring someone. You're paying for somebody. As a buyer's agent, you're paying for somebody to represent you. So yes, there's obviously, it's a fee for service.

There's a dollar attached to that. But, if you are paying top dollar for a good buyer's agent, you are going to get the best service that you possibly can. Do you know what I mean? When you, when compared to someone who's, you know, a fixed fee, $10,000 and has been in real estate for two seconds, it makes it a lot harder. But that's what we are competing with at the moment. 

You know what? We have the same problems though, right? Not problems, challenges, objections to overcome is, you know, you're, you're paying for a professional service. Yes. Be it yourself or someone like, like our team. Mm-hmm. It's the same thing, right?

We've got guys out there that are significantly cheaper, but then if you dig deeper and ask just one or two questions, like the person running my deal, how much experience do they have? And some of those answers are terrifying. And, are you price driven or are you results driven? 

That's another point as well.

Yes, definitely. Yeah, absolutely. And, and I guess in this market as well, like it's prices are going through the roof so rapidly mm-hmm. And buyers are having to keep up financially with the market. So yes, there is a definitely a financial element where they are tight for cash and they can't necessarily afford those things.

But, I think, you know, in the long run, sometimes if you do go with a buyer's agent, or go with a professional that's the cheaper option, it could cost you more in the long run. 

Well, they say poor man pays twice. Yep. 

That's it. And you get what you pay for. 

Exactly. 

Just to keep us on track with this point then, so we're talking specifically about the transition from being a seller's agent to a buyer's agent.

In terms of the skills that cross over or I guess the core job, just talk me through similarities, differences, like what you love about maybe being a buyer's agent now, that you didn't love about being a seller's agent? 

Mm-hmm. 

Yeah. 

I think the scope in the role is so much greater. It's very different every day. I'm dealing with different buyers. I'm dealing with different marketplaces, different properties. Whereas, on the sales side, I loved it and obviously I love dealing with people every day. But when you're an agent on the sales side, you're working the same patch over and over, and you've got so much competition in that same environment.

Whereas on my side, since jumping into it, which has made it so much more enjoyable, is that I can get leads from brokers, I can get leads from agents, I can get leads from solicitors, conveyancers, all different types of parties. But you look at, you know, a sales agent's got one listing, and there's 40 buyers that go through that door.

Yep. 

There's only one buyer. So there's 39 other buyers there that need to find a property. Yes. So I guess the scope for us to get buyers coming to us is a lot greater, compared to a sales agent having to fight three other agents in the same pocket, for one listing. 

Yes. 

So I think there's just more opportunity on our side. There's not as much headbutts and fighting other people for listings or buyers because there's so much out there that we can all kind of go for.

Yeah. 

If that makes sense. 

Yeah. It's A totally different shift in the way you acquire the clients, isn't it? 

Yes. Correct. 

Yeah. No pun intended. 

Yeah. Yes. Acquire. Okay. So being a buyer's agent, say, I, I'm a selling agent right now, and I am toying at the idea of being a buyer's agent.

I'm like, oh, yeah. You know, I've dealt with some buyer's. Agents, could be a bit of fun. What's a tip or two that you have for these people? Like for the transition? because you've lived through it. 

Ah, that's a good question. 

You can take a few sec if you need to, need to think about it, that's all good.

But yeah, just to try out some value if, if you're a seller's agent thinking of becoming a buyer's agent, what's Emma telling these people? 

It's funny you ask that question because I have got a new team member joining me next month, who is going through that exact thing. Okay. So she's currently on the sales side.

I originally wanted her to join me last year, and she was too nervous. It wasn't the right time. Things have happened and and now it is the right time for her and she's reached back out and I just said to myself, I'd be silly not to.  📍 Yep. We're In the process of obviously getting her onboarded, so I can't mention the name just yet.

That's okay. Stage tuned, I'll eagerly await. 

But for her, the conversation was very much like, you need to take this risk. And I think that the sales side is so volatile and so competitive, and there's so many real estate agents out there that are good, and it makes it harder for somebody starting out fresh to get a name for themselves quickly.

Whereas the buyer's agent side is still so new and there's so much opportunity to create a name for yourself, still being in the same industry. But in terms of, I guess, crossover in terms of skills, it's still the same transaction. You are just looking at it from a different perspective. So obviously a selling agent, your goal is to get the highest price possible. A buyer's agent is to get the lowest price possible and the best terms for our clients.

Yep. 

But I guess as a sales agent, you understand different buyer's circumstances because you're dealing with so many on a daily basis. So understanding what their needs are, and taking that over to obviously feeling that with them and understanding how you can best use that situation to put them in the best position they can. And obviously understanding the transaction process as well.

Yeah. Okay. So the, a common term I see on social media with buyer's agents is like a "buyer's brief", right? So you guys obviously have a brief when you onboard that client of what you're looking for. And what I see as a core strength say for you in particular, is your network. Like I think about Emma and I think about - you, you rattle off all these names of these selling agents and I'm like, whoa. You know, I think I know a lot of people, like I'm out and about meeting people every day, all day. And then I sit down with you and I'm like, whoa - you know so many people. That's got to be a part of your secret sauce, right? Of how you've built such an amazing business, is - relationships and that network. 

Yeah, definitely. And that's real estate. Real estate is people. Like I need to know as many people as I can. I need to have as many relationships with agents as I can because they are the first point of call when I do get a buyer brief. That's who's going to give me access to property.

Yeah. Or one of the avenues at least. And, and when they're going through properties and just doing appraisals, they don't even have Form 6's on those properties. Yeah. They're going to be telling me about them. Yeah. Okay. because they want to see who I've got that can be brought through the property, pre-market, off market, or help them to get those listings signed up.

Yes. I need to be friends with agents because that is where I get my stock from. 

We have the exact same goal.

Our relationships with agents - selling agents, buying agents. It's our lifeblood. Yeah. Without real estate agents, our business would be struggling. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. Hundred percent.

Yeah. You guys are the primary, resource that we have, and that's all built off relationships, right? 

Definitely. Yeah. And I think, you know, you can have a relationship with someone that's very commercial. For me, I need that friendship element for it to work. And yeah, I think that allows it to be a lot easier to obviously get deals across the line and deal with those people and build that trust, is because you've got that friendship in place.

Yes. 

And there's a lot of real estate agents that I deal with that on a daily basis. Literally will say to me, I do not deal with any other buyer's agent other than you, because I trust you. I know how you work, your experienced and you know the marketplace. And for me, that, that means more than anything one less competition.

Two, I built the trust for somebody that obviously knows what I do is a good job.

You just said twice in two sentences. My favorite word in business - "trust". The T word. Trust. Trust. Trust. I, it comes up every day. It's without a doubt, the way we do business and the way you are doing your business, the most important thing ever. Because with These other selling agents, they could be throwing money at them, it doesn't matter, because they trust you. 

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. 

Where would you send your friends? Where would you send your mother? Like i'm sure all your word of mouth comes off trust. 

Mm. Definitely. And it makes business so much easier.

It does, hey? 

Yeah, yeah. My, my thing is, and I've said this to my guys, is when the phone rings and you look at the name of who's ringing, you want to go, oh, heck yeah, it's Emma.

You don't want to be like, 

Ugh, I have to answer this. 

Yeah. It's like, Ugh, but oh, but they give me kickbacks or this or that or whatever.

I have to. I want less of that, and more of - "hey Emma!"

Yeah, 

yeah. It's cool. Hey. 

Yeah, for sure. It, it's a pretty simple recipe, and you look at business and success, and I boil it all down to that one word - trust. It's my favorite thing in business. 

Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah.

All right. We could chat all day, but I'm going to move this along. So, selling agent to buying agent tips wrapped up.

Next point I have is the growth of Acquired. Now, this is impressive. 

Yeah. 

So I, I'm going to say this on your behalf. So you've been operating, what, just over six months now? Yeah. And is there four of you at the moment? 

Yes. 

Yeah, at the moment - 

soon to be five. Okay. You said there's another one coming? 

Yes. 

Okay. So our business is eight years old. It was Abi and I for at least the first 18 months, I reckon. 

You've already got a team of four, nearly five, in only six months. 

Mm-hmm. 

I haven't had a guest that scaled that quickly before.

So I'm really curious to unpack together, the secret sauce, and try and find out how you made this possible. So let's just kick off with the journey over the last six months. So did you start just you, like, let's do a little bit of stepping back in time over the last six months.

What, what's it look like? So you made the call to go out on your own? 

Yeah, I got to a point where I had two options - to go and join another buyer's agency, which I did interview at, and it's the only other place I would've gone, or, do my own thing. Mm-hmm. And I think when I was chatting to this other agency, it just sank with me and I said, I don't have any other option other than to do my own thing.

I can't go and work for somebody else. And that's, yeah, at that moment, that's when Acquired was born really. And I didn't have aspirations to have a big team or to hire straight away. I didn't even think my business would take off that quickly. But it surprised... 

I don't think anyone did.

And I mean that in the, in the best possible way. It's like, well, good on you. This is, this is so cool. Like, I'm so excited to, to see where we go with this. 

Yeah. It was, a pleasant surprise and yeah. 

You know, the relationships I had in place, I think I just didn't give enough credit to. 

Mm-hmm.

Years of goodwill, right? Yeah. Literally. Probably over a decade of goodwill in certain relationships you've got. It's a long time. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

So, yeah, obviously I got some traction quite quickly and then I got to a point where I spoke with somebody just around a bit of mentorship and the discussion was, I need to hire for where I want to be.

So I'd made the decision then to put an associate on to help me, so then I could do what I was good at, which was, signing clients, lead gen, obviously building relationships with more referral partners. Um, and then I had someone to support me. That person turned out to be Sammy. And I've known Sammy for a very long time.

She's worked with me in the buyer's agent space before. She's a weapon, and I would be genuinely lost without her. So she's joined and that just enabled us to scale up quite quickly. 

And then allows you to do more relationship building boots on the ground. Yep. And she's what, back at the base doing more operational?

Email. Yep. Admin. 

Correct. 

Yep. Supporting you on the backside. That's it. Yeah. And then we were getting quite busy in the lead up to Christmas and Elke reached out to me. I'd previously wanted obviously her to join me, but the timing wasn't quite right for her. And then things happened and she reached out and the timing was right, but it wasn't right for me.

Okay? So I kind of sat down and I said to myself, if she was to go somewhere else or go to another buyer's agency, would I be disappointed? And I, the answer was yes. Yeah. So it was a no brainer for me. I said, it would work. And literally with her coming on board in her first month, we had three signed clients from her.

Wow. From her relationships and her networking, she's unbelievable. And that's enabled us to scale up again. So you doubled down. So in, in, so what, in your mind you're like, oh, it may be a bit premature, but then the test was, if she was to go somewhere else, would I be kicking myself? And then you said, stuff it, I'm just going to bring her in and we'll make it work.

Yeah. I was hiring for where I wanted to be, and I'm on track to hit the goal early from what I set for myself when I started the business. And obviously with the team coming on, that goal's now been pushed. But 

So you've revisited that. Yes. Or reset it for the new financial year, but we'll definitely hit the goal that I've had for myself for the first year of business.

I'm going to do a bit of a side quest here. It should only take a minute or two, but this is, this is, I think, a really important point. 

Mm-hmm. 

Goal setting. Yeah. So you said you had a goal from the start, and you've since revisited it and updated it. How important do you think goal setting is to: new business owner, buyer's agent, professional, with your journey. 

Yeah. So important. Yeah. I do it with myself every year. I've done it with all of my staff. At the beginning of the year, I got them to write down personal and professional goals, and then we create a sheet that's an agreement, and they have to sign off on it. 

Very cool. 

They've chosen to do that and we've sat down and obviously figured out a way how to do that.

But, you know, I think a lot of people look at goal setting and go, okay, this is my target, that's what I want to do, and then leave it at that. Whereas for me, and I went through this process last week with my team, is obviously having that goal, but that's all in well, but that's down there.

What do we have to do as micro goals to make sure we can hit that goal or so that's more obtainable? So, I broke that down to what we need to do on a weekly basis. 

Yes. 

And that's all we focus on. 

Yes. 

So breaking that down, but based on, you know our target, and then figuring out what our average, commission was, versus what our average conversion rate of clients is. And then figuring out what that correlates to in terms of leads each week. And that works out to be, I need to generate five leads a week, and Elke needs to generate five leads a week. Not signups, not conversations, just buyers contacts.

And when you dumb it down like that, it makes things seem so much easier. 

You reverse engineer it all the way from the big goal - the goal that's a year down the track. Yeah, totally. And then it all boils down when you do the maths to, you say five a week, which is ideally one a day. 

Yep. 

So if you can just hit one a day, you'll have a percentage that convert, which then when you go all the way back up, allows you to hit the goal. 

Yep. And it's Less stressful. 

Yep. 

You're not thinking about that. You're thinking about, okay, well where am I getting my lead from today? Where am I getting my next client from today?

It's not - oh shit - we're not anywhere near what we need to be at. Like, why don't even look at that? 

No. That's because that's overwhelming, right? You think about building a business, or whatever you're trying to achieve in life. It can be super overwhelming. But if you break it down to the bite-sized chunk, or what's just the next thing I have to do in the process?

Yeah. Yeah. That's, I think goal setting is super duper important. Definitely. Um, I wish I had a mentor earlier in my career, uh, Abi and I sort of just "worked it out" through mistakes, which we all do in life. 

Yeah. 

So you, you said you got some mentorship as well. Which I think, we could do a whole different topic on that. Yeah. That's a very important point. You see the benefit in that as well. Right. Hundred percent. That would've on track from day one. 

Yeah. Anytime I make a decision, I will talk to at least three people that I trust or that in my circle. 

Yes. 

Um, and just to obviously soundboard different ideas, different views, different opinions.

A lot of the time I still go with my gut. Yeah. But I think you, if you have that and you soundboard that, it, it makes things a little bit more clear. 

Yeah. If you've got two or three trusted advisors, you don't have to take their word as gospel, but it allows you to then make an informed decision to move forward.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Nice. Alright, I'm going to steer myself back on track now. Just to wrap up point 2.  

Yes. 

So, two more things I want to know. The first one is: You have a core area that you service? Just for the listeners out there. So they've come across this podcast, and they may not know you or I.

 Emma and her team. Where are you guys servicing? What's your core area?  Tell me about it. 

So our office is on Bay Terrace in Wynnum. I live Bayside as well. Love that area. But I service anywhere from river to bay - so the south side, southeast out to the Bayside, of Brisbane.

Cool. 

Yeah. 

Okay. Say you have something out in the Redlands, for example. Will you venture out there? Yes. For the right client or the right group? 

Along the Bayside. 

Okay. For sure. Great. So pretty much Southeast Corridor is the core business for you guys. Yeah. Okay. And is that the same with your other buyer's agents?

No, that's just me and my direct team. 

Okay. 

Will, who has joined our team does Australia wide investment. So he's investment only. Um, but has the capacity to purchase interstate. 

Okay. 

That's what he's passionate about. That's what he loves doing. Which, you know, I'm obviously there to support. 

Mm-hmm.

When he builds his team out, that will be, I guess their dominant area and, we will be more southeast Queensland. 

Okay. So say you get a brief for yourself, and then this particular client is an investor considering, I don't know, North Queensland, whatever. So anywhere else that's not the Bayside Southeast Corridor, I guess you can team up with Will or handover.

Yep. And then you've got that opportunity to service more. 

That's it. Yeah. Great. Yeah, and I think everyone needs to have their strong suit and their strong field, and Will's very data driven, likes to analyze things in that aspect. Whereas I'm probably more connected to owner occupiers and families that want to buy their next home.

And you know, there's a lot more emotion involved in the transaction. That's what I love doing and I get fulfillment from.

Yeah, like that local community boots on the ground. You live in the area. You work in the area. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. Great. Yeah, that's that. Great. Alright, so to put a bow on point 2, what do you attribute to the growth? The fast growth. You've got five people basically, in six months. 

Yeah. 

If you were to think, what's the reason or the reasons for the success, what would you boil it down to?

I would probably say it's because I'm impatient, but I always want that next thing. I always want to grow once I hit one goal - okay, what's the next goal? It's just my goals, right? Like I, I'm, I can't sit still, I can't, you know, sit there and be complacent with where I'm at. I need that next thing.

I need to push and be driven to go further. And I think, yeah, that's probably the biggest thing is that risk taking for me. I'm still quite young and I have the capacity to take a risk and fail, and still be okay. 

Oh, a hundred

percent. Um, so I think for me, yeah, it's just, I had a big conversation with myself and I just got the fear of taking risks out of my head.

People get imposter syndrome, people get the fear of, oh can I take that third person? Like, like you explained with the, the Elke situation, right. Going, uh, it's not right yet, but what's the alternative? Yes. You lose good talent somewhere else. Correct. And how long after she came on board did the penny drop with you?

And you go, no. No. I'm sure in your heart you knew it was the right decision, but when you look at it, say logically, you go, oh yes, this is great. Like it's. How long before Elke was like meeting people and bringing stuff into Acquired?

A week. Crazy, hey? It was, it was my calendar the week after she came on board was packed with about 10 meetings. For me, it was when I was hiring for where I wanted to be, but these people had come to me, and I wasn't necessarily out there looking.

I think that's the best type of staff that you can have. Because, they want to be there. And it's not a, I must find somewhere to work and it's, I must find an employee. It's a, okay, well, timing's not great, I think that you'd be a great fit for the team. And those people work harder because they're given an opportunity.

 And I think Elke's work ethic is second to none. She is a workhorse. She's available whenever I need her. And I said this, you remind me of me when I was 21. 

So we need to clone her. Yes. 

Pretty much. 

That's, we're at, we need, we need to clone her. 

I need to keep her.

Last point on this then is culture. So you're talking about, say this example where I guess you attracted her, or an organic conversation happened. That's got to be culture, right? Maybe it's a, starts with you as Emma, the individual, but as your business grows, it will become Acquired.

Talk to me about that. Do you have a master plan for culture, or are you just organically building it? Because obviously you've got it. You may not know you've got it, but you've got it. Because if people are wanting to come and work with you and you've got, these people already in your business so fast, there's something special there.

Mm. I think for me, with the conversations I've had with both Sammy and Elke and Will, and then this new girl that's coming on, they've all been quite similar in that they needed something that was going to support them. Yeah. And I think in this space you hear about so many situations where associates are, you know, doing all the work and not getting rewarded.

I'm massive on that. If you are bringing money into the business and you are doing your job well, you need to be paid. And for me, I don't look at Acquired and go, I need to make as much money as I can. I need to make the amount I need to make to support my family. 

And the same goes for Sammy. Same goes for Elke. Same goes for Will. That they have families too. They're now my responsibility. Yeah. And I need to make sure that they have the capacity to look after their people. 

Yeah. Um, and I think there's a lot of employees that don't have that same mentality. And for me, it was a big thing for me that I go, well, these guys are now my responsibility. I need to make sure that they're looked after. And I think they weren't expecting that. 

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's normal for the other side - where the associate, the junior, is just sort of whipped and beaten and just, you know, put into submission where they don't think they deserve better.

Yeah. So it's refreshing. I think the values that your business has a very, a very similar ethos to ours, where anyone that comes into our business, I don't want them to leave. No. The idea is you're coming into the family and then we want to support you, mentor, grow, so that you don't ever even want to consider going anywhere else.

And the only way to do that is, you know, to make sure people are valued, people are getting paid properly. If they're bringing revenue into the business, making sure they're looked after. Again, all this stuff's pretty basic, but traditional models of say, agent world, especially in franchise land, and big law firms, they gate keep all this stuff and they really make it difficult for those people to spread their wings.

Whereas, it's nice to do the opposite - going, you can spread your wings and we'll support you as much as humanly possible. And I know in my heart, as long as we keep looking after the people in our business, the vast majority probably won't want to go anywhere else. Because there is a brand, there is a culture.

That's it. 

Why? Why would you? 

And a lot of other people micromanage their staff. Yeah. And you know, and real estate, and this is another thing I've learned in my obviously 11 years of doing it, but real estate isn't a 9-5. No way. But a lot of people treat their staff as if they're in a 9-5 role, but then expect the extra mayo on top, with Saturdays and Sundays and being available after hours.

You can't have a cake and eat it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I think for me, you know, even this morning, Sammy's gone, oh, I need to take my dog to the vet. I only can you only get an appointment at 11 o'clock? Like, do you mind? I'm like, why are you telling me this? I don't need 

to know. Because there's respect, there's respect from her to you, which is great. For sure.

But from your side of things, like yes, you're an adult. 

You don't, I I'm not a micromanager. No. If your dog's sick, you need to go to the vet. 

Yeah. It's okay. But it's, it's at, it's, you know, it's that, those conversations where it's like, well. If you have a hair appointment, go to your hair appointment if it's during the week, because I know that you're going to be working on Saturday.

I know that if a contract needs to be done at 10 o'clock at night, you're going to do it. Yeah. And it's the give and take. And I think real estate is the only industry where you can have that flexibility. Mm-hmm. And when people are taking advantage of and forced to be in the office at a certain time and have to stay there till a certain time, you, you're going to lose them.

Yep. 

Because real estate is so demanding. Because it is a people industry and I think people need to be given the opportunity to have the control of their week. And as long as the work's getting done and it's getting done when it needs to be done, I don't need to worry about what they're doing. 

Yeah. At the end of the day we say to our guys here, like, if you can work out a way to hit your targets, pick up the phone, get good reviews.

If you can do that from Bali, power to you, see you. Like, we're all adults and I think this is where the big corporate world doesn't get this right, whereas, and they're starting to wake up since COVID, is you treat adults like adults. One of my favorite sayings is, you've got enough rope, just don't hang yourself. 

Literally. 

Yeah. Like if you have all the rope in the world, just please don't hang yourself. 

Yeah. 

And I think when people give are, given that flexibility and that autonomy, they will naturally progress themselves, if they want to.

The right people will, the right people will. Or all realise that it's not for them.

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Perfect. Point two - done. Let's, let's wrap that up there. Go straight to Point three, which is - mama Emma. 

Yeah. I know, right. 

So this is a huge passion point of mine, purely because when we started Empire, one of the reasons it was born is because Abi was heavily pregnant with her first baby. 

Mm-hmm. 

And traditional law didn't accept her being away to have a baby.

And eight years ago we were like, well, we don't believe in that. 

Yeah. 

We are going to do it different. 

Yeah. 

So we started in the townhouse in Wynnum. We didn't have an office. Abi had a newborn. And we made it work. And our core group of people that choose to work with Empire are mums. I now have a young little man at home and my wife is currently off on leave and she's in the real estate world too, so it's a very important topic to me personally.

We've seen huge success where other places wouldn't even consider bringing mums back to work. And I think we're a good example of that working. But your journey is wild. Because it feels like you didn't have any time off. I mean, it's like we blinked and all of a sudden you've got your own business and a functional team and an office and all this wild stuff.

So, so, well it's, it's the truth, right? Yeah. It is the truth. I'm like, didn't you just have babies?

It's those goals, right? It comes back to the goals. 

Yeah. 

So let's just talk through that a little bit. 

Mm-hmm. 

What comes to mind? I'll let you just organically kick off with like, mum + business.

Yeah. Like how do you manage it? What tips do you have? 

If you could manage it and there was a textbook on it, everyone would be doing it. I think it's, um, it's just, it's about personality and what you want. And you, some mums are born to be mums and want to be stay at home mums and, you know, they want to live their life through their kids and that's great.

That's what they want. Yep. I am not that person. I was off with my first daughter for three months. 

Yep. 

I was still working one to two days a week from literally the day after I gave birth. 

Yeah. Wow. 

Um, I, I just, I couldn't be away from work. I don't know why I was just addicted to it. Um, and then, yeah, Matilda went into daycare at 12 weeks. 

Mm-hmm.

For three days a week. And I was back at work. And then obviously fell pregnant quite quickly, again. I've got Irish twins, so they're 11 months apart. Um, and then Maggie, I had her the following October ,and same situation - she was in daycare pretty much straight away as well. And that was because I, I wanted to get back to work. I wanted to get batck to what I was doing, because that was part of my identity. And I think for me, I wasn't that person that's going to let my kids define me. I love them. They're part of me, they're my life. But my career was also really important to me. And I guess being that role model for them, so that they can look up to me one day and go, well, I wouldn't be like mum.

So that's for me, you know, that's kind of why I made it work. But when it comes to managing it, honestly, it's, it's, you just make it work. You don't have a choice. 

Let's just pause for a sec before we get to more the, the management or how to navigate it. 

Mm-hmm.

Why do you think you wanted to go back to work? Is it that cliche of you just love what you do? Is it you've got goals you want to hit and that's really important? What made Emma go, no, no, I want to go back to work. Like I don't want to take a 12 month hiatus and then think about it. Like, what got you back in there after 12 weeks?

Honestly, I was bored. 

Well, not even 12 weeks. You were doing it, you said just after you gave birth. It reminds me of Abi. Like Abi literally had Lexi and then was like back on the computer and I'm like, Abi, chill. Yeah. And she's like, no, no, we'll just get stuff done. She just gets stuff done. Yeah. So I feel like your personalities are probably quite similar, but yeah, you lived through it. What do you think it was? 

Mm. Honestly, I was just bored. 

Yeah. Okay. Because you've been high functioning for so long. 

Yeah. 

Like, bubs asleep. Like I, I'm happy to help.

Yeah. Pretty much. And, and I think it just, yeah, once you get that taste of it again, and then it becomes a little bit more difficult to

manage baby full time whilst being at home and trying to work. And obviously real estate clients are demanding. You know, agents are demanding, everything's time sensitive and a lot of it happens after hours. And it was, it got to the point where I was like, I need extra help. So then obviously went into daycare, and 

they love it. They love daycare. Yeah. And it is the best thing for our family. Other families, maybe not so much, but my girls love it. And I love it, because it makes me enjoy being with them when I have the time. Like on a Friday, I have half days with them. And then obviously on the weekends. And our time is so much more enjoyable because they've had their thing, I've got my thing.

And it makes the time together so much more special. And when we drive to daycare in the mornings, Matilda, my eldest will say, mummy, why do I have to go to daycare? And I'll say to her, mummy's gotta go to work and this is your work. You've gotta go to work too. 

Yeah. Cool. 

So yeah. 

Your bucket gets full. You obviously, you got your amazing family, but then you get fulfillment from the career aspect as well. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. You, you still want that, you want to be able to, as you said, part of your identity to hold that as well. 

Yes. 

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And you've made it work.

So, all right, let's transition onto how you make it work. Because I think there's probably mums out there that are thinking about having kids and they're professionals, not necessarily in real estate, but just professional services or any, any industry.

You got any hot tips that work? Because you've, you've made it work. I know it's chaos. I mean, we've got a little guy at home.

Yeah. It's full on. What tips or success items looking back, have you gone, man, this was great. This was great for you and your hubby and, and the family. 

Yeah. I mean it's still, it's always going to have teething issues. Like there's always going to be times when they are more demanding and need more from you.

But I think the biggest thing for me is just routine. My kids have been in routines since the day they were born. And I think for them it's the familiarity of what their week's going to look like. And it just helps me be able to coordinate what I need to coordinate. They don't get as stressed out or confused.

Um, and everyone plays their part. Everyone knows who does what. I think that's just what's working for us at the moment. And that could change any day. 

Structure. Structure. And obviously it doesn't always go to plan, right? Yeah. But without that structure, surely it would just be chaos.

Yes. Ah, a hundred percent. And like even when, from six weeks, my kids have both slept through the night because of routine. Well, that's what I put it down to. 

We need to do another podcast on that, that I need to know the answer to that one. 

Maybe that's the trick because I'm, I've got a lot of sleep. 

Yeah, that's impressive.

Do you attribute structure not only to success with say running the family, but obviously running your business? Do you have a crazy calendar? 

Yeah. Yes and no. I think for me, like I've got set times and days that I can do certain appointments, so that my team know where I'm at, what I'm doing.

Each week's different, but there's definitely a set kind of structure. They know when I can do consults, they know when I'm available to do certain things. They know when I've got my kids and I'm not available. Yeah. And then we got kind of all step up and do what we need to do when we need to do it.

In the mornings we'll go through our client list to make sure we know who's doing what. So that everything's under control. So there is an element of routine and structure in there for sure. 

And boundaries. Yes. Like it sounds like you've got your blocks of time.

Yeah. 

What I've learned over the years is, if you set boundaries, people should respect them. It's the people that are always available and stuff where it's hard, right? Because for me now, like I'm, I'm a dad, I want to spend some time with my little fella and my wife. 

Exactly. 

Whereas before, maybe I was more available, but as life goes on, I think, man, this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Mm-hmm. 

Like I'm in my mid thirties now, I'm going to do this for another, I don't know, 30 years or whatever. I want to be able to get to the finish line and not burn out. Correct. Because especially in your world where you're doing big days on Saturdays, it's very demanding. I saw an article in the paper the other day - an agent who's done very, very well down in the Logan area.

Mm-hmm. Um, she wrote there that she works eight till eight, six days a week. And you think, man, how long can you do that for? Like, I get you're young and you've got all this energy and stuff, but once you start having kids and you're a bit older, yeah. Do people want to work eight till eight, six days a week?

I know, like, I don't, I love what I do, but I want to be able to, you know, go for a walk with my family or... 

I was like that. Yeah. I used to work six, seven days a week whenever I needed to, if I needed to. 

But is it because you thought like, oh well I'm young and I'm kicking goals, and what else am I going to do?

I had no responsibilities. 

Same. Same. Yeah. I think that's how you get ahead in life, right? Yeah. But yeah, you're right. Things change and they shift. Yeah. Well, for me, like I, I, my goal when I was younger was to buy my first house before I turned 21. Which I did. And then it, from there it was like, okay, well how do I get to the next thing?

And yeah. 

For me, my mentality then was I need to make as much money as I can. 

Yep. Yep. Set yourself up. And with that comes work. And now that I have had kids, and now I've got my husband and we've got a busy household, you know, I need to prioritise them. Because they're my responsibility. I'm, you know, I'm the dependent parent and that's my priority and, and work comes second. But, I think, yeah, when you, you do that, it opens up new doors to certain perspectives to things. And I can pick and choose, but I wouldn't be in this position unless I worked my ass off. 

Of course. Yeah. Yeah. You can be all kumbaya and "I have boundaries", but when you get under the hood and you rewind, oh man. Like I flogged myself. Yeah. Like to the point where like, yeah. I think I had health issues from just from, you know, from, from overdoing it. Like honestly, from like the cortisol levels, to drinking too much. Yeah. Just like, just overdoing it with your body. 

Yeah. 

And not giving yourself a break.

Yeah. 

Yeah. I mean, there's always that other side. Yeah. 

Correct. Yeah. That's it.

All right, Emma, we're nearly there. I've just got two more questions for you. Fab. First one - and all this is off the cuff, so you don't even know what's coming. 

No. 

If you could step back in time and tell a younger Emma, just give her like a piece of advice, what would it be? You can have a few sec to think or look at you straight away.

All right. Off you go. 

Take, take more risks. I think, back then I was young. I had no responsibilities. I had, more capacity to screw up. And I think, yeah, that's my biggest learning in the last year is take more risks, and don't be afraid to. I think a lot of people go, what if this, what if that?

What if no one knows me? What if I can't? What if I'm not successful? What if I don't make money? What if? What if? But if you flip that mentality, you go, well, what if I am successful? What if I need to hire someone fast? What if I make this much money, what can I do then? I think people's mentality is instantly negative when it comes to risks and people need to, to flip that. So that's what I'd be saying to my younger self. 

That's great advice. Lots of people have imposter syndrome. And worst case, your risk doesn't work. And guess what? You can just go get another job and you've got a decade plus of experience. Mm-hmm. You're very hireable. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. And you never would've built the life you've built if you didn't take the risk.

Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. 

That's it. A hundred percent. 

Alright, last question. This is called the Golden Nugget. If you've listened to any of our other podcasts, you may know about it, if not, and for the audience, basically - you are allowed to give one piece of advice. I know you've already given so many amazing, amazing pieces of advice and this you can have a few seconds to think about.

So to whoever's listening out there, be it mums, buyer's, agents, sellers, agents, professionals, interested property people, what's one thing that is sort of bubbling to the top for you, to whoever's listening to add some value to them, what would you tell them?

You only live one life. Bite the bullet, take the risk, and believe in yourself. That's it. 

Beautiful. I think that puts a nice little sort of finish on everything we've spoken about. Yeah. Take that risk, guys. Do it. 

Yep. 

Yeah. What's, what's the worst thing that'll happen? 

You start again.

Yeah. But most likely that won't happen. And you'll have an amazing journey ahead. 

Exactly. 

Uh, we'll pop in the socials in the bio here, all of your social channels to get in touch. So guys, if you are looking to get a buyer's agent. If you want some no obligation chat advice, be it in the Brisbane, Bayside area, from the river to the bay or beyond, get in touch with Emma and her team. Love to have a chat to you. 

Yes, definitely. 

Yes. 

Sweet. Thank you for having me. 

Thank you for your time and for your insights.

Ta.