Technology That Makes a Difference

In this episode of Community Chats, Shawn Ratnasingam, Manager, Product Management at Community Living Toronto joins Brad Saunders, CEO of Community Living Toronto, to talk about the digital tools and technology helping improve access to information and services for people with developmental disabilities, their families and caregivers.
 
Together, they explore the evolution of digital platforms like MyDirectPlan, which helps people and families manage Passport and Special Services at Home (SSAH) funding, and MyCommunityHub, an online marketplace that makes it easier to discover and register for programs and services across their communities. They discuss how bringing information and services into simpler, more accessible digital experiences can make it easier for people to understand their options, make informed choices and focus more of their time on what matters to them.
 
Shawn also talks about the recent updates to MyDirectPlan, how feedback from users helps shape the development of these platforms, the importance of keeping digital tools simple, accessible and focused on what people need and how AI may shape the future of digital supports.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hello, my name is Brad Saunders, the CEO of Community Living Toronto, and welcome to Community Chats. Technology is becoming a bigger part of the way each of us experience the world, but also a way that Community Living Toronto supports people and families. At CLTO, we've been doing more work in the digital space to make accessing supports easier. Through platforms like My Direct Plan and My Community Hub, we are making it simpler for people to find the information they need, manage their passport funding, and spend less time navigating administrative processes and more time focusing on what matters most, pursuing goals and participating meaningfully in communities. Today I have a conversation with Sean Ratnesingham, who's a manager in our digital services team. We'll talk more about what it looks like in practice, the recent significant update to my direct plan, and what we're learning as we continue to build in the space, as well as how AI may shape the future of digital supports. This was an interesting conversation, a little bit different for community chats, but grab a coffee, settle in, and let's chat, because belonging begins with listening. Okay, Sean, thanks for joining us on Community Chats. Glad you could take some time today to share about the update of my direct plan and uh a little detail around how things, uh how this change is going to make things better. But before we do that, you have worked at Community Living Toronto and we've known each other uh a number of years. How did you get involved uh with working with people with intellectual disabilities? And and then how did you find yourself at Community Living Toronto?

SPEAKER_00 1:40

So I I went to formerly known as Ryerson University. Um, and while I was there, I was doing my practicum. So Community Living Toronto at that point came as uh as a recommended space to kind of volunteer and kind of see that. And I was crossed between child welfare uh counseling, marital counseling to be specific, and developmental services. Uh and so I took the opportunity and I joined the APSW program at that point. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

So that's adult protective service. Adults that live in community that uh often on their own and self-direct their support?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yes. So Adult Protective Services Worker um program was the one that I kind of got myself accounted to. Uh and from there I heard about uh community Toronto offering part-time and relief positions in that space. So while I was in university and doing the kind of the practicum around it, I started working uh part-time at Coatsworth um residence and and just really kind of settled in and and not wanting to move out of the developmental sector. Um, so I I I thought maybe five years might be the the mark, but I've been here much longer since that. So yeah, it's been great.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

So many people have that, eh? You start a career, you try something because you've got an interest or you like it, a passion, and you're gonna stay for a period of time. And then 30 years later or 25 years later, or whatever it is, you look back and go, where did that time go? So that was your that was your story.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

That's my story. Looking back looking back, I don't think I would have it any other way. Uh tech tech has always been my focus behind the scenes, but I always wanted to stay grounded in supporting um communities. And so while I while I venture in other spaces, uh it keeps me grounded here.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Great. So so you've again, you you you started out working um with people, and that's your educational background, but you said tech is you said in the background, but more than just a hobby, like it's uh an interest in a skill of yours. How did you move from starting there into working with our digital services side of the organization?

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Um outside of community in Toronto, I also uh work uh work in other spot sectors. So uh health is one of the other spaces that I work in. Um and I also do photography um and things of that sort around technology. So yeah, naturally that that was a place, and uh had there was an opportunity in 2015 to build a marketplace um at that point. Uh we I think we were calling it the fee for service hub. Uh and so that would that was a good uh space to really look at what does user experience look like and what do our customers want, uh and naturally just kind of uh fit into the things that I was already kind of um diving into. Um and now we've got something built, uh and a polished product called My Community Hub. That's uh that's in space.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Good. So let's um we're gonna talk a little bit about my direct plan and my community hub. Uh and those are both two digital platforms that help uh help individuals and families with managing their passport funding. And just excuse me, a couple seconds on passport. So passport is a ministry funding program that was started more than 10 years ago. Uh and and it gives an allocation of funding to individuals. And the passport name is some it's it it can sometimes be a little bit confusing, but I think the idea was this was funding to help your passport into community. Like uh you're you're able to experience like you've got a passport and going to another uh another country. So I think that's the background of the name. But passport is widely known in the sector, and there's allocations that people can receive. Uh there's a minimum amount right now, which I think is 5,500, maybe it just increased to 5140. Uh and it can be up to uh quite a bit more than that. Depend on a person's uh assessed needs uh through Developmental Services Ontario. And with that, they're able to spend money uh to access programs in community. It could be staffing, could be attending a program, whatever it might be. Um and that's where you come in once people have chosen what they want to do or are trying to decide what to do. Uh that's where our community in Toronto's digital suites that we operate on behalf of the sector play in. So let's start first with my direct plan. Uh, what is my direct plan and how does it work?

SPEAKER_00 6:03

So my direct plan is an expense management um application. So it allows uh families who families and recipients in receipt of passport funding, but we also support another funding type called special services at home. So zero uh children all the way to uh 18 um have special services at uh home funding. Um and then from there they transition over to passport funding, so 18 and over. Uh and so we we support families around uh being able to manage their budget, submit their expenses to the appropriate um source, and then being able to be able to get reimbursed uh from the funder.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Right. So if people are listening to this and don't know of or have never looked at the My Direct Plan website, they could follow along as we're talking about this. So the the web address, what what is the web address for for the program?

SPEAKER_00 6:54

So MyDirect Plan's web address is mydirectplan.com. Okay. And if you're looking to access it through so that's that's one way of uh accessing it, but you can also go to any of your app stores, regardless if it's your Android device or your Apple device. And we also have a mobile app that you can start from there. So you don't necessarily have to go to mydirectplan.com to get started, but you can also download the app and kind of directly work through it that route. Okay. But it's it's a good place to to understand what my direct plan is before you get started, is to by visiting mydirectplan.com.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Okay. And then there's there's buttons that you would click on around it w if you're receiving passport, if you're an agency, or there is there different doors that you would go through to depending on how you're involved in the program?

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Yeah, so we we've made it very user user-centric, user-friendly. So it it's it's as uh quick as clicking on creating an account, and from there, based on your funding type, it'll walk you through a wizard to get your funding set up uh to a point where you're able to manage it within minutes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

So if you receive an allocation through special services at home or through passport funding, once you get that, you can log in, create an account. Uh and now will MDP MyDirect Plan know or SSH know your funding amount or do you enter that in? How's that how does that how does that process work?

SPEAKER_00 8:12

So there is there's two way, there's two roads in that. So for Passport, the latest enhancement that we've done in June allows the user to set up their accounts with some uh verification processes. So as long as to make sure that you're the right person uh matched with that funding type. As soon as you put your credentials in uh and it validates, it will automatically populate what your act your real budget along with your your support worker contacts and your pay information. So really the account setup is very straightforward uh and you don't have to do any guesswork. It just allows you to just um start submitting as soon as you uh verify your information. SSH, on the other hand, um isn't integrated with uh with the systems uh as of yet. So families will get a funding letter uh on an annual basis, uh, and they basically will take the information on the in the funding letter uh input it into my direct plan and they can start submitting right there and then.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Okay. Okay. So with the um uh allocation that you get, like I guess the way to think about this is it's similar to like a banking app where you go online, it's got your account balances and uh whatever's there, or maybe more akin to like an insurance company where you might have a spending account that you're you're managing uh money to. So my direct plan does that for passport and SSAH money. Um and and talk talk us through if you've got so you've spent money, you've got your allocation, you're online, you've set up an account, you you know what your balance is, that your allocation is for the year. Uh, and then you want to go to a uh summer program and an evening activity and hire a staff. How would you uh walk us through how you would how my direct plan would uh would function in that case?

SPEAKER_00 9:57

So if you if we looked at a traditional, let's say you went to camp as an example, uh, you register for camp, you get their receipt, you've paid for it. In my direct plan is it's as fast as selecting the expense type. So camp is the expense type. You put in who the service provider is, basic details of the date, the amount, you attach a receipt because the receipt is my is required for all submissions, and and as simple as even just that one expense you can submit. Um, and once you submit, uh, you'll get the active status of uh it's either um under review, an action is required, possibly. Let's say you added the wrong receipt, or if it's it's been approved, it'll give you kind of real-time information of where in the process of your claim submission you're at up to where when it's approved.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Right. So, and in terms of attaching the receipt, you can scan it, you can take a picture of it on your phone and upload. That's all functionality that's built into the My Direct Plan platform.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Yeah. So um so attach attaching it from your device, taking a photo of it. Uh, we also have the mobile app. So the mobile app uh on top of it allows you to be it's already built in. So you're able to uh basically take a picture of it, it'll upload back in. Uh you can review it and then submit it um there again.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

So you do the you you fill out the drop-down menus and everything that else is required. You push submit. Is it a submit button? I don't know if I it's a submit button. Says submit. So then what happens and how long does what happens take?

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Uh so we've we've heard from people uh being approved the same day uh in it, and and depending on the the type of expense it is and so forth, within two to three business days in that. Um obviously volume um volume of submission is is also impacted. So things like you know, people sometimes will wait until the end of the year to submit, so that that increases the the review process. But in typical stances, uh we've seen it from the same day to uh one or two business days where somebody's approved. Uh and they would always know if if something was required of them uh to attach another receipt or anything like that, they'll get an email automatic uh emails to them uh stating what the what they need to do, and they'd be able to resubmit uh once they've got their information together.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Okay. Now I've heard sometimes this isn't necessarily talking about me, but it does happen. You do something, you're involved with a platform and it doesn't work. You've done something wrong, you can't figure out what's going on, there's a glitch. What kind of support is available for people if they want to, if something's not working for them, or they're new to technology and haven't used this kind of thing to uh before and need help uh understanding how it works? What's available to support people?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

So we we provide technical support, Brad, uh Monday to Friday, 10 to 6 uh p.m. And what that really means is somebody can email us um with any sort of uh uh question they have or a problem that they may have. They can also schedule a call, so which essentially means uh you get to pick the time that you want somebody to call you back and being able to help. But we uh to supplement that also you know, outside of night uh, you know, Monday to Friday, 10 to 6, we have uh knowledge base articles, which is a kind of a step-by-step of how to how to navigate. And we also have YouTube videos that give somebody on basic things like how to submit or how to add expenses and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

So if you haven't used it before, but you'd like because the the nice thing is it's automated. You you the receipts are are collected that way, you don't have to mail things, and then money is deposited right back into your bank account within a few business days typically.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

For pastor funding, yes. For SSH uh uh quite a bit of a difference, they go through the regional offices, so submissions will be. Ministries regional offices for for so for SSAH funding, it can take as uh as minimum as three days and sometimes up to 45. We've seen. Uh, but uh there is a bit uh difference between the SSAH processing times versus uh password processing times.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

And then the map the the MDP advantage for SSAH is around the submission of and the completing of the documentations, it's it's automated and computer-based as opposed to doing something pen and paper.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Pen and paper, even mail like paper trail. If you mail it, you don't have a paper trail versus if you submit it electronically, at least there's a timestamp for when it's been submitted. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Perfect. Now we did you you've been involved with this program for a number of years with my direct plan and that. Um, and we did a big upgrade that we did a press release for and sort of talked about some of the service enhancements that we've made. Um tell us about them. How is it better now than it was before the updates in June?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

The user experience, uh, I mean, people have been saying for a while, that you know, get your stuff together, make it easier for us. Why is it so uh administratively uh burdensome in that space? So the the new updates really enable uh users to get on and start submitting um in that space. And also the uh the amount of um uh inputs or information you may need, it automatically populates now. So as long as you verify who you are, all the things you might have manually had to enter prior previously, like your full all of the details, are automatically populated for the end user. So the amount of work now, even uh one of our biggest call drivers come like uh April 1st is always how do I set up my budget for the next fiscal year? Right. That big the that pain point for both our ourselves and our password agencies has uh has gone to from 100% to zero just because of the change automatically. So we can only imagine come April 1st, people will know what their budget would look like for the next year. If somebody received an increase in real time, that will get updated. So that extra step of understanding what is the change is now automated uh into their system.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Okay, so April 1st, it used to be you'd there'd have to be a process you'd go through to get your budget, and now you just log on and your new information is there right away. Any changes are immediately captured. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Great. Anything else that's uh new and interesting? So so we've we've kind of dabbled in the AI space uh for a bit now. We've been trying to see if our users really want it. Uh should this be a place where we venture? Uh so we we we uh two years ago we created uh a feature where the user would be able to upload their receipt. It would kind of extract the key information like who the provider is, the dates, the cost. And so we've we we thought we, you know, maybe uh we'll get like 10,000 um uh users or submissions that go through it. The amount of people that use it now uh as that extra data entry process uh has has astronomically um I think gone over like about 45% uh year over year in terms of that usage. So what we're looking at right now uh with the change is how do we better make it easier for users in terms of uh recommendations on expense types, uh, or just in terms of data entry, what does that look like? You might have heard uh companies talk about low cognitive load when there's too much information in their screen.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

This will say something about this, may say something about me, but no, I haven't. So, what is that low cognitive load? So low low cognitive load.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Sounds like I would like it, but when you go, when you use any app these days or any website you go to get information, there's information overload. So it doesn't really tell you, it doesn't get you to a place of okay, this is what I need to do or want to do in that space. So this what we're trying to do is get the users to um to navigate the way they want to. So they come on, log into my direct plan. The future state, what we're trying to get to is as a user, they define I want to review what I submitted, I want to submit my claims, I want to add it, and it makes the journey a little bit more easier because it'll be focused on what they want to do versus the information overload. So we're while we're gonna keep the information we currently have the way it is. The opportunity is for those who don't want too much information and they just kind of want to navigate them to the case. I just want to submit my expenses. I just want to submit my expenses. You start there, you start there, and so that's we're trying to get to a level that it doesn't matter if you are brand new to technology or you're an advanced user, you can go whichever way you want. But the the idea is to make life easier for you. So these updates that we made in June really are gonna kind of is kind of that stepping stone to make it easier for users because now they don't need to know their budget amount year over year, they already know it, so they're just gonna go use it against community uh participation programs and then be able to submit it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

And you said so uh about how many people use my direct plan?

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Like how many, how many registered members are there? So when I look at it from a lifetime perspective, so that since you know we've been around since 2018 or so. We've uh for both SSH and and uh Passport, we've surpassed 50,000 users. Um, we also in that user, it's not just recipients, but also support workers in that space. So support workers are able to uh approve their timesheets electronically. So we we we support a number of different types of users more than just the recipients.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

But we yeah, yeah, no, so and sorry to cut you off. Go ahead if you were gonna so you so of that sort of 50,000, a number of workers, a number are people with passport allocation. About 45, 50 percent of those people are using the AI tool where you take a picture and and the receipt is then scanned and populated in. Um I would encourage I'm constantly impressed, amazed, by how far technology's come in that area where you can take a picture of something and and AI is getting really good at understanding and populating things. So if people haven't tried it, it's really impressive, uh, really impressive uh to see. Is there an error rate or how does that work if you take a picture and something's wrong? Are you stuck? Can you go back? How does that work?

SPEAKER_00 19:59

So it the the the application will tell you if something if it can't read something or if it's not clear, or if it's not fully trained to that specific area, it'll tell them. So the user still has the so AI, we haven't made it as the sta the primary focus. The user selects AI or what can submit it the way they normally submit it through MDP. But if if it's the the image is not recognized, it'll prompt them back and then it'll ask the user to input it themselves. So it wouldn't get them stuck, it'll just ask them to enter it manually. Uh at the end of the day, it's uh the user still has to verify all the information that extracts and the and then be able to kind of say, yes, I I I've reviewed everything. So there's not just an automatic, hey, let's just you uh use AI, and you know, people say AI is hallucinating these days.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

So that we we take that fear away because AI hallucinating is when artificial intelligence makes a mistake, right? Because I I guess the piece there is that AI is 80% accurate, 70% accurate, but 100% confident. So uh you you they're able to catch those. There's very little risk to people using um the sort of the taking the picture and having that analyzed uh with my direct plan. Is that fair?

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Yes, because at the end of the day, before you submit, you get to review it. If you want to make a change, because let's say AI made an error, you can make an you can make the adjustment and submit it. So Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

So it's worth a try.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

It's worth a try. Good. Um anything else that was new in this most recent update? Uh this update was really just to build that baseline of getting everybody to a certain level so we can start adding more features and functions to making it easier. So this that this was kind of that step one.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Okay, excellent. Um now the other program that is uh uh available for recipients of Passport is My Community Hub. And you've been involved with that um pretty much from the beginning. So uh explain what's uh what what is my community hub and how does it Help recipients of passport.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

So My Community Hub came about in 2015 through the Employment Modernization Fund grant that was given by the ministry. Angela Bradley had this wonderful idea of creating a marketplace for families. At that time was specific to Toronto, us being from Living Toronto and us uh really having a place where you know families didn't have to navigate to every single website individually, but having a collective space for them to see what's available and then being able to register and pay. So that that was kind of the idea behind the scenes, uh, where we've now have over uh about 40 organizations across Ontario uh and one stop for families. So when you when you think about it from uh marketplace, you can see what's happening across the street without really going and navigating. You get to uh see what the price point looks like, uh the times and dates, and you can plan a lot better than having to individually uh search for them. And so that's that's been the experience for users um abroad. Uh and we we we now get inquiries even from out of Ontario asking, how do we make this work? And that's best, I think it's just a collective piece around the DS sector, um, uh just having a one-stop shop to be able to look at programs and services.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

So it's a place to sort of find what's going on in your community, programs that you might be interested in. And they could be free, they could cost, they could be sort of one-time things or recurring classes that you want to sign up for. Um and you can register for and pay through my community hub.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Yeah, so it does all of those things that you described. Uh, so the uh from all the uh the visibility to just look at what's available and future plan all the way to making an informed choice and paying for it. Uh, and automatically the receipts will automatically be emailed to you. It's part of your account. So that that processing side of things, uh, it's a little bit more automated than you know, traditionally people bought Dollarama receipts, kind of wrote it off and gave it to someone. This kind of streamlines that process. It comes from a credible source. So even from a password funding scenario, when they get a receipt and it has stamped my community hub on it, it's recognized and it's validated in that space versus just somebody creating a receipt. So that that that sort of branding behind that receipt um is making processing a lot more easier also for families.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

So the receipt is gonna have everything that is needed and for for it to be accepted and uh meet the criteria outlined for submission to passport through my direct plan.

unknown 24:38

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Perfect, perfect. How um excuse me, how many people are using uh my community hum on a regular basis? Do you have that that number? Is it quite popular or is it growing? What's your what's your sense of of uptake?

SPEAKER_00 24:53

It certainly has grown. We we're we're we're where we see the growth is uh return customers. So in that scenario, it's not just the you know the person who comes and signs up once and never comes back, but also uh people who will uh continue to register uh you know, season after season, even people who register across multiple organizations, not just um uh registering with one. So we're seeing all sorts of different trends that are happening in the space. Uh our user base is well over 30,000, I believe, by now. Um and our our service providers year over year grow about 10 to 12. So that also increases the opportunity for families to have more programs um visible to them. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Um now that you say there's 40 agencies that are regularly posting programs, and they're from Toronto and around the province. Uh, but there is no geographical boundary, right? So you could be in the far north, you could be in Ottawa or Cornwall or London or anywhere, and your programs could be there, and you're directed, like there's a way to sort by location or particular agency or particular type of program. So it really gives you a bird's eye view of what would be available.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Yeah, so we we we use a what we call filters on on my community app. So all the way from uh service provider, community living, let's say you're from community living in Toronto, you can navigate it and and condense your you only want to spend up to $500 as an example in the filter uh and different things that are very customary to the the user of what they're looking for, and it'll kind of give them a condensed search of what what's available to them. What's been a proven factor also, Brad, is during COVID, everything was virtual. Uh post-COVID, people continue to kind of uh support that. Accessibility became a greater space in that. So we've heard people from, for example, North Bay registering for programs in ASICs because it was virtual, they were able to um register and go to it. And it still exists to this day post-COVID that people are able to be having uh accessible virtual programs and being able to have no confines of this is where you have to be geographically. Right. Okay. Um excellent.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Are there any updates planned for that at this point? Or what's uh what's the what's coming next with my community hub?

SPEAKER_00 27:10

My community hub is right now working um uh towards an invoice module. So we you know we look at program, we we started off with program registrations, but also when we look at Raspid services as an example, some some service providers bill uh before services um provided, some service uh some will do it uh past, but uh but um capturing and giving receipts and all of those things was still kind of uh a gap. So we are now creating an invoice module in my community hub where uh the service provider can invoice the the family uh and the family can uh remit payment and then a receipt will automatically um take place. So that we're trying to close that gap of of not having different places and tools for people or service providers to use and just bringing it together.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Great. There's um there's a tendency when using tech where when somebody comes out with something, you try it and you go, oh, that's fantastic. You go to another platform, okay, well, why do they do it that way? Why don't they why aren't they like this? And I guess it's good to see that both platforms are continuing and the development, right? You're trying to improve the products on a regular basis. One of the things that kind of slows that is one, you want to make sure that it's a it's a an addition that actually makes it better, not just is novel, uh, but also there's cost connected with any of these developments, right? So we have to use our uh our our funding wisely to make sure that we're making investments and upgrades that really make a difference, but uh that we're not uh we're not um investing in stuff that doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Yep. So how we how we how we if if if you're thinking how do we come up with unique ideas and and kind of with come up with these features, we look at it from a minimum lovable product um perspective. So we're really, you know, if we now bring this to market, how will the user uh use it? Will they use it? And the feedback uh the thing, the features that we build on is really from a user feedback mechanism. So things like I wish this was done this way instead of that way, we take the non-technical out of what they're saying and make it technical to make it work for them at the end. So uh they're able to utilize it. So user feedback is one of the biggest mechanisms we use on developing and improving our programming.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

So as people are using the products, if they're the the platforms, as they've got feedback or suggestions or questions, we welcome that, we welcome that feedback. And I think tech the term often is minimal viable product, but we've adopted the term uh minimal lovable product. What uh what will people actually love doing and uh and and make their planning easier? So it I I did you coin that term or do we get that from somewhere else? It was it's I I like that term.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

I I I I personally like to say I I coined it, but then when I googled it after I I've said it a number of times, it's it's it's in the book somewhere. Uh but essentially just taking user experience and you user customer satisfaction to another degree. So not just giving the the basic lines, but just giving them more than uh the the minimum requirement gives the lovable and I think more. Uh and I'll if I can give an example, Brad. When my direct plan was contemplating do we go with a mobile app because everybody wanted a mobile app, we we said, okay, let's develop these features and put it on our web app first. And let's see if our users uh kind of cross between you know smartphone, tablet, and their their desktop. Uh we have we heard a lot of feedback of you know you have this feature available on your web app, but why isn't it available in your mobile app? So automatically, without them saying we want it in mobile app, the question itself posed uh, hey, there seems to be a problem here.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Let's let's see what we can do to resolve. So good. Excellent, excellent. Um, well, for the for our purposes, you didn't know that it was out there that term. So I think you can take some level of credit for being uh at least as creative as the person that came up with and wrote that wrote that book. Um good. Before uh before we wrap up, um where do you see the tech going and and uh what what do you see? Uh maybe not specific to my direct plan of my community hub, but how are these sort of expense reimbursement processes evolving in the broader uh sort of tech infrastructure with AI coming in and so and the risks that are out there around um uh you know hackers getting into stuff? Or are you are you seeing any trends that that you're you're paying attention to?

SPEAKER_00 31:29

The the the trend we're we're looking at is really um like for example, for if we looked at it just from my direct plan itself, receipts itself. We've had we've been asked the question um can some in can someone submit an AI um generated receipt? Uh it's uh in that scenario. And the the answer is yes, you can you can as long as the information uh is viable in the sense of that it being correct. So I think a lot of people, when we even when we started our initial AI journey in my direct plan, people were hesitant to use it because it's like, okay, what if I do this and what will it do in that? But when we built in the mechanism of you still get you still have to review and and you have to then validate and then submit, it made it a lot more easier because then the user felt like they were in control. And I think that's right, that's the focus that we're trying to keep on to in our products is that uh AI can be an option, but it should not be a default at this point, just because every it we're also learning as things grow and change, right? So it shouldn't be a natural first step, but really giving the user the ability to do it and try. And I think that's where we're seeing people continuously now uh using it. Um so I AI seems is the biggest buzzword. I think it's it's just figuring out what you know, going back to the the minimum lovable, what do our users need versus overcomplicating it? And then when we overcomplicate things, that's when people start stop using it.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Keeping things simple, but simple, usual, usable, and uh and making things actually easier. Exactly. Great. All right, well, congratulations on the update. I know a lot of work went into uh the new the MDP launch and that uh and uptake is going well, I gather, uh, for the new features and being well received. Um and thanks uh for everything you've done around pulling these uh uh platforms together over the years and sort of leading our initiatives in this area. Uh well done, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Thanks, Brad.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

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