Ep 7: Cut Open: A Surgeon’s Journey Through Resilience, Community & Growth

In this episode of the PLA Podcast, host Dr. Stephanie Costa sits down with Dr. Danny Eiferman, Ohio State surgeon, educator, and author of Cut Open: A Surgeon’s Stories of Loss, Resilience, and Growth.
 
Dr. Eiferman shares an honest, deeply human look at the realities of surgical practice, the emotional weight of complications, and the healing power of community. He discusses what inspired him to write his upcoming book, how storytelling reveals meaning in suffering, and why physicians need safe spaces to talk openly about mistakes, self-doubt, and the pressures of modern medicine.
 
Together, they explore themes core to the PLA experience: vulnerability, peer support, post-traumatic growth, and leading with humanity. This conversation offers reassurance to physicians who feel isolated and inspiration to those seeking renewed purpose in their work.
 
 Find updates on Dr. Eiferman's book here: https://integritysurgery.org/

Produced by the Columbus Medical Association

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Transcript

This transcript was automatically generated

00;00;14;04 - 00;00;39;22

Unknown

Welcome to the PLA podcast, created for alumni of the Physicians Leadership Academy at the Columbus Medical Association. This podcast was developed to help PLA alumni stay connected to the PLA mindset and community. I'm Stephanie Costa, and today I'm so happy to be joined by a physician who has been active in the Columbus Medical Association and Central Ohio medical community, Doctor Danny Furman.

00;00;39;25 - 00;01;13;08

Unknown

Doctor Furman is a tenured professor of surgery at Ohio State, and has been recognized as a top doctor by Castle Connerly since 2018. It's an honor given to only 7% of physicians nationally, so congratulations on that. Danny has received a master's of business administration at the Ohio State University Fisher College of Business, and since then has developed and teaches leadership courses on topics that focus on performance improvement, team building, and physician resilience.

00;01;13;10 - 00;01;43;06

Unknown

Despite all of these things, he's most proud of his marriage to his beautiful wife Elissa and his relationship with his three children Julia, Jeffrey, and Abby. Danny. Welcome, Stephanie. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah. That's great. So we've known each other for a few years, and I know that, you know, you have done so many things that have created such a positive impact for physicians, patients and more.

00;01;43;08 - 00;02;09;20

Unknown

At this time in your career, you've been at it a little while ago. What are you most enjoying about it now? Right now it's probably the teaching aspect of what I do. Being at the Academic Medical center. I'll be honest with you, doing gallbladder 1542 doesn't, you know, get my, you know, float my boat as much anymore.

00;02;09;23 - 00;02;35;05

Unknown

But when you're around residents and medical students and fellows and they're interested in what you're interested in, and, you have a chance to, you know, guide them, mold them, teach them, coach them, mentor whatever word you want. And I still get a lot of enjoyment out of that. And they keep me young. You know, they show me the latest things on TikTok and send me memes and things like that, and that I enjoy.

00;02;35;08 - 00;03;00;13

Unknown

That's great. I'm sure the learning goes both ways for all of you. I hope so. Sometimes I think I get the better end of the deal out of it. It's great. Well, one of the reasons I asked you to be on this podcast was because you shared with me that you recently wrote a book, and I was just really curious about why you decided to write a book and what that's been like for you.

00;03;00;16 - 00;03;25;10

Unknown

So truth be told, I actually had the idea to write a book, when I was a resident and the original notes for the book, I have back from when, I was probably a third or fourth year resident. I had read, a talk of one day's complications. When I was in medical school. And, I really enjoyed that book.

00;03;25;10 - 00;04;03;15

Unknown

And as I started going through surgical training, I had this idea, that, what we go through in surgery, in the training and what we see. The lessons that are learned aren't just applicable to surgery and health care. They're they're probably applicable to everybody. But the differentiator, the term I learned in my MBA classes is, surgery has a lot of, like, drama, behind it and people.

00;04;03;19 - 00;04;31;22

Unknown

That was my hook. Was that the stories are told from a perspective of a surgeon and involving surgical stories. And so that was the genesis of it. And, you know, I was a resident now, 2003 to 2009, it's now 2025. So you can get an idea of how long it took to bring this to fruition. So why was now the right time to set this in motion?

00;04;31;25 - 00;04;54;00

Unknown

Yeah, that's a great question because my kids, all have driver's license now, and I bought them cars, and they don't need mom and dad, as much anymore at night. Life used to be, you know, who's who's picking up from baseball, who's got the gym, who's picking up from swim? I have a little bit more time, now.

00;04;54;03 - 00;05;16;19

Unknown

So people who are approaching empty nesting should think about writing a book. I found it very cathartic. I was doing about a chapter. Every six months or so, I would get inspired or something would happen that would remind me of something of my past. And I would find a Sunday and I'd go to the library and I would write something down, and then I wouldn't.

00;05;16;22 - 00;05;36;04

Unknown

I wouldn't do it for like six months. And I didn't tell anybody that I was doing it. And then, I got real serious about it last year. I was like, I'm doing this, and I had a couple good people in my life push me to do it. And so that's really what came about is I had a little bit more time free up.

00;05;36;06 - 00;06;03;23

Unknown

Yeah. Well, and, you know, in the play, we, we really talk about thoughtfully creating things and not rushing things. And, and, listeners will understand what I mean when I say don't jump the you meaning we're we're so eager to fix things and do things and, sometimes it, it really takes, going through a process and kind of going through the growth zone as we're creating that.

00;06;03;25 - 00;06;30;06

Unknown

Does the writing itself come easy for you? So, no, I am not a very talented writer or artist. And, I talk or I write like I talk. And that doesn't go over well. The first time I started getting stuff back when I had hired an editor and they would write back, it's like, do you realize you have a dangling participle here?

00;06;30;08 - 00;06;55;24

Unknown

And I would write back, since I don't know what that is. Let's go with your recommendation of how to redo this. Here and lots of filler words, were in there and talking, you know, so let's talk about this next. And the editor would just take that out and be like, next happened this. So, it was nerve wracking, I would say.

00;06;55;24 - 00;07;19;01

Unknown

I was telling people it was every bit as nerve wracking as a surgical complication when I would get things back from the editor because like, oh, the hated, I suck at this. It's no good, and all that. But no, it didn't come easy. The stories did, because these are the stories that are in the book. So just to give you a quick outline, every chapter starts with a story from surgery.

00;07;19;01 - 00;07;43;08

Unknown

My my personal experience and then the rest of the chapter is, one patient described it as a homily. Sometimes I call it a sermon. But my reflections on it, what I've learned from it, and then every chapter ends with a take home message. Because I always what I teach a class, I always say, ask the class how many pieces of information can the human brain hold at one time?

00;07;43;11 - 00;08;08;01

Unknown

And the answer is seven. That's why phone numbers were seven digits, originally. And so each chapter ends with about three, some anywhere from one to 3 or 4 take home messages. So the reason I tell you that the stories, like I remember the stories very vividly, you know, stories about my worst complication, stories about trying to get into medical school, things like that.

00;08;08;01 - 00;08;36;23

Unknown

The what I learned from it and how to express that. There were some staring at the ceiling times, what you call it the end of the break. That did not come super easy to me. Yeah. Just out of curiosity, your editor had he worked with a physician before, so. Yes, but not a surgeon. So I could talk your ear off.

00;08;36;23 - 00;09;03;29

Unknown

Or if anybody wants to talk about. What's the difference between self-publishing and getting hired by a publishing company, I am self-publishing my book, but I hired a company who helps self-publishing on others. They, I think, had only done two other doctors, I want to say an E.R. physician and a hospitalist. But the major advantage of that was whenever I had something to, like, surgically technical in there.

00;09;04;03 - 00;09;24;15

Unknown

There, like, this is no good. You're going to lose a non a non surgeon reader in there. But the short answer is yes, they've published with doctors. They've never done a book with a surgeon before. Yeah. We keep talking about this book. What's the name of it. So, so I gotta quick tell you a funny story about the name.

00;09;24;15 - 00;09;42;08

Unknown

I had the name of it picked out years ago. I'm talking years ago, and I loved the title. I was like, I did it. This is what I'm going to write about it. I, I even the name of the document on word was that. So I submit that to the publisher and I get an email, you know, welcome to us.

00;09;42;08 - 00;10;05;23

Unknown

Here's how the process is going to work. About two weeks in, I get an email that says, Hey, Danny, would it be okay if our creative team, threw out some alternative ideas for the title? Something like that. So it became very clear to me that that was speak for your title. Sucks. What did the creative team come up with?

00;10;05;25 - 00;10;30;10

Unknown

So the creative team. So you learn a lot of things. So first of all, shorter titles, sell better. So they wanted me to have a 2 to 3 word title. And then the subtitle can be longer than that. And then to get into it even more, the my there's something called Bicep codes, which is what category of book is you're going to go under.

00;10;30;10 - 00;11;00;20

Unknown

Is it poetry? Is it romance is it fixed. So I chose health care. Well that has key words to it that would come up in a search. So they did this thing of a short title and you want to jam as many key words into your title as you can for search engines. So that's where, that's where. So they sent me ten titles and then, believe it or not, I was giving a talk to the medical students and I gave a secret talk to our surgical residents, and I crowdsourced it.

00;11;00;23 - 00;11;36;08

Unknown

And I said, who likes title one? Who likes title eight? You know, all that stuff. And so at the end of the day, the book title is Cut Open A Surgeon Stories of Loss, resilience and Growth. Like it. But I also have to know, what was your original title? That's, So I'll tell you this. I will tell you so I in the nine, the publisher gave me eight titles, so I put mine in there as the night I said, okay, vote for titles one through nine, whatever.

00;11;36;11 - 00;12;14;08

Unknown

Out of everybody who voted. This was the only comment I got on mine. Somebody raised their hand and said, who would read a title? Who would read a book titled number Four? And number four was mine. So, the original title, was failing to succeed. With the idea being it was a double entendre of you have to fail in order to succeed.

00;12;14;10 - 00;12;45;27

Unknown

And they didn't like it. Yeah, but it really speaks to me. And, we know that growth comes from our misses. And it also, I mean, talk about a book about resilience and, Yeah. So I get your original title and I also your editors needed to get the creative team. I, I appreciate that. I, again, 2016 2017 I think I came up with that one, things like that.

00;12;45;27 - 00;13;12;10

Unknown

That's what I submitted it. And it is no more. It is, what you call it. I know it's no more. It's cut, it's cuts two words, and now we're working on the cover, and cut open is a little edgier and sexier, and I hope you sell. That's because. Thank you. I need to sell lots because it's way more expensive to publish a book than you ever thought it was.

00;13;12;12 - 00;13;53;02

Unknown

So you're obviously learning so much about writing and publishing a book. Can you share with us what you've learned about being a human being because you wrote the book? The number one thing that I would say to that is writing, communicating, how everyone is, there is a therapeutic and a catharsis aspect to it. And when we're kids and our parents say is, you know, it only gets better if you talk about it, that's a true statement.

00;13;53;05 - 00;14;20;20

Unknown

And I would say that's probably the number one thing that I would get out of it sitting. I did a lot of this, like the Dublin Library up on the second floor by myself with my laptop and going through and remembering my stories, going all the way back to trying to get into medical school, residency, dealing with infertility, while I was a resident, actual surgical cases.

00;14;20;22 - 00;14;46;29

Unknown

That brought me a lot of peace, a lot of joy to write those down. There made me who I was. And so that's what I would say. It was just another form of communication, just like we are right now. And we're friends, and I enjoy, like, it gives you a sense of, community. And my goal I actually have this in the introduction of the book is I'm trying to to build my community because that's what I find.

00;14;47;01 - 00;15;10;07

Unknown

That's what I find so meaningful. And that's what this, if I understand, is correct. That's what this podcast is. You've built this play community and you're trying to find ways to keep in touch with them. This is my I'm hoping that my book resonates with people and I help build community through that. The second thing I'll share with you is what's,

00;15;10;09 - 00;15;36;08

Unknown

I think it's on the website for the book as well. It's in the introduction is the book the book starts the introduction of the worst complication I've ever had in my career, which was really difficult for me to deal with. And, there was a quote, in there, it's from Holocaust survivor Viktor Frankl. And he said, suffering ceases to be suffering the moment it finds meaning.

00;15;36;11 - 00;16;01;29

Unknown

And that really pushed me to write the book is I wrote about things that I had screwed up or hurt or anything like that. I wrote in there that if there's any of these stories, maybe it's one chapter, maybe it's a half a chapter that resonates with somebody and helps them, or their mental health or their professional satisfaction that I found meaning in the things that I went through that really was like, I'm doing this,

00;16;01;29 - 00;16;04;08

Unknown

even though it was painful at times.

00;16;04;11 - 00;16;55;10

Unknown

Yeah. I think, you know, you're bringing up a couple of things about suffering and community, and I think there are a lot of physicians at this time in medicine who are suffering because they don't have community, or they're they're afraid to admit that they're suffering or they're afraid to talk about these really, really difficult cases. And so hopefully in reading them, you know, docs are going to realize they're not alone and, hopefully be inspired by you because, you know, there's there's nothing like taking one of the worst cases in your career and, and, making it chapter number one, and putting it out there for the masses.

00;16;55;10 - 00;17;15;16

Unknown

So I admire your, your courage in that. I appreciate that we are not great at this in medicine. We're definitely not great in surgery. And there's there's a lot in the book about this resilience, but you need your peers when things aren't going well and you don't need you need, people who do what you do or the ones who can give you the most support.

00;17;15;19 - 00;17;39;21

Unknown

And if they're not there for you, then it's isolating. And very difficult. And and our job is hard. We take a lot of risk. And, you need that support to keep, to keep going. Yeah, well, you've used the word peer and you've used the word support. And I know, for many years you've served in the role of a peer supporter at Ohio State nationally.

00;17;39;21 - 00;18;04;10

Unknown

And, you know, in the last few years here at the Columbus Medical Association with the doctor, doc peer supporter program. And just so happy to have you be a part of that and bring all of that experience. Were there any insights from the work you've done as a peer supporter that informed you as you wrote the book?

00;18;04;13 - 00;18;24;00

Unknown

I don't have a specific example of of course, all those peer support things are confidential. I would say it just reinforces kind of, what I call rule number one when I'm, when I'm being a peer supporter, and I have this, I think I've told you this before, I have this talk that I give called.

00;18;24;05 - 00;18;45;06

Unknown

There's No Crying in surgery. It's based off the spoof of there's No crying in Baseball, from A League of Their Own. It's probably the most common talk that I'm asked that I'm asked to give. And in there, it's like, okay, how do you stop the negative thought process? What can you do? How can you be a peer supporter?

00;18;45;06 - 00;19;09;03

Unknown

And when I do take these phone calls or sometimes their email or text or something like that, we at the first thing I do, I tell them, you're normal. This is how like it is not you feel bad that makes you a human being, okay? It also makes you somebody who cares. You know about your patients, about the work that you do.

00;19;09;05 - 00;19;52;18

Unknown

This is normal. You are not an alien for feeling distressed or embarrassed or humiliated or angry or anything like that. So, I think my experience as a peer supporter and just having people at the end, just like you can hear it, it's usually a change in the tone of their voice. Thanks. This was helpful. And so that is, that's in the lecture that's in the book about I always tell people when I had my worst complication, my wife, my best friend, now 25 years of marriage, not a doctor, didn't know, knew that I was sad, but didn't understand the intricacies.

00;19;52;18 - 00;20;19;08

Unknown

It wasn't until I spoke to my former chairman, whose name is in the book, because I respect him so much. Said, yeah, that happens to everybody. It happened to me, too. And then that's when I finally was able to start healing. So that's the peer support role. It's in there. And that way about, you know, community and helping our peers out, things like that.

00;20;19;11 - 00;20;48;07

Unknown

Yeah. That's great. Just really kind of normalizing the difficulty, that there will be some tough outcomes and, you're not alone. So, I mean, the only the only surgeon who doesn't have complications is the one that doesn't operate. So that's the only way not to have complications. So we need to learn how to be resilient. And then again, I talk about there's post-traumatic stress disorder.

00;20;48;07 - 00;21;11;12

Unknown

People know what that is. Very few people know what PTG is, which is post-traumatic growth. One that is I am now functioning at a higher level than I was when bad thing happened. And I'm, I'm hoping, that. That's right. And this book is helping me achieve PTG. That's awesome. I might steal that. You're welcome. With you.

00;21;11;14 - 00;21;30;07

Unknown

Yeah, there's no copyright on that. Although I just watched a whole video on how to copyright my book, which is a terribly complicated process. And we're not we're not going to get into that. No, we do not need to get into that. So, you know, you're referencing, like, these incredibly challenging, cases and situations that are in your book.

00;21;30;07 - 00;21;59;10

Unknown

And as physicians, we have the privilege of having really meaningful relationships and interactions with our patients and to provide some, sometimes life saving procedures or recommendations at other times, our interactions with patients or those situations can be incredibly stressful or might even rattle our confidence. Like you had talked about before, with that negative chatter in our in our heads.

00;21;59;12 - 00;22;28;13

Unknown

And as we know, you know, that this whole system of medicine can be quite depleting, can affect our feelings of self-worth. So as you're including some of these things in your book and some of these most pivotal moments of your career, what advice do you have for other physicians and particularly younger physicians in terms of resilience, specifically any of it?

00;22;28;13 - 00;23;14;02

Unknown

I mean, I can imagine that as you're writing the book and and reflecting on some of these really pivotal cases, like as you're working with students and residents and, and young attendings, like, you must be thinking that there are things you want to share with them. So I would tell you, there's two things I think that I would I would want to respond with both that one of them, they'll give you some insight into one of the chapters, in there, they came from well, one of them came from an accounting professor of all people, that I was taking his class around the time that I had this bad complication, and he could

00;23;14;02 - 00;23;33;24

Unknown

see that I was not in the same chipper mood. And he said to me, I got a question for you. Said, if I have a bucket right here and inside the bucket, I'm going to put nine red ribbons and one green ribbon. And then I said, Danny, put your hand in there and you're going to pull out one ribbon.

00;23;33;27 - 00;23;58;02

Unknown

What color would you predict to pull out. So well that's easy. I would predict a red one. It's like that is correct. There was a 90% chance of red. There's a 10%. He said to me, okay, if you picked out the green one, did you have a bad process or did you just get an unlucky result? And I said, well, I had a good process.

00;23;58;02 - 00;24;19;29

Unknown

I there was a 90% chance I was an unlucky and a bad result. He said. That's the way that you can look at your at your surgeries and your outcomes. And so I passed that one along to younger people that if you had a good process, I could still hold my head high, that I did the best that I could.

00;24;20;01 - 00;24;49;24

Unknown

And so in medicine, I always give examples like I can ambulate a patient, put them on DVT prophylaxis, put seeds on them. Can you still get a DVT and a PE? You absolutely can. But I had a good process there. I didn't it didn't ignore it. I didn't skip steps or anything like that. If that patient get to DTP, I could still hold my head high if I had a bad process.

00;24;49;24 - 00;25;10;17

Unknown

And this has happened. I've done bad surgery before. The patient goes, okay, I've done a crappy gallbladder and the patient is fine. And that's not okay. I got to get better than that. And so number one, I would say focus on the process, not necessarily. The result is the one thing that I would that's kind of number one that I would put in there.

00;25;10;19 - 00;25;35;03

Unknown

Number two, especially for the young people, as we already alluded to, has to do with your attitude towards mistakes. And this is something I've read a lot about. People who embrace that mistakes are part of the process, are more likely to proceed to mastery than those who do not accept. Mistakes are part of the process. You are not going to go through this unscathed.

00;25;35;06 - 00;25;56;21

Unknown

You're never going to get every diagnosis right. You're never going to do every operation technically perfect. You're not going to make every judgment call correctly. If you talk negatively to yourself, you're an idiot. Why can't you get this right? You know, how long have you been doing this? That's going to start a horrible negative thought process that can be very difficult to pull yourself out of.

00;25;56;24 - 00;26;19;04

Unknown

However, if you say, you know what, I didn't get this one right. I'm a smart person, I have the tools to do this, and I'm going to get better. Those people go on to to be mastery. And so that's what I have to say. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. And then I end the book with, so I guess this is a third thing I say I was going to say too.

00;26;19;07 - 00;26;41;25

Unknown

On that note, I end the book with learn to talk to yourself nicely. The negative thought process is extremely difficult to break. You need to learn to talk to yourself nicely. Yes, that is not the outcome that I wanted. It's not because I'm a horrible person and not because I'm a malicious person. I can get. I'm going to.

00;26;41;27 - 00;26;56;06

Unknown

Do a deep dive into this one. When we get back on the horse, I'm going to help the next person because I have the skills and tools to do that. And I call that learn to talk to yourself nicely. So I guess those would be my three things for I would say for the young and for the old physicians.

00;26;56;09 - 00;27;18;09

Unknown

Gosh, I almost feel like I want to rotate on your service. I'm, picking up some great URLs from you today. Appreciate that. So your book isn't just for physicians. I mean, you talked about having to modify some of the language in it. How do you think it might help other health care professionals or patients or anybody who's reading it?

00;27;18;12 - 00;27;37;25

Unknown

So you are correct that it's the book was, quote, meant to be for everybody. Life lessons. The publisher said, if your book is for everybody, your books for nobody, and the more specific that you make it, the more likely you are to be successful. So I said to them, okay, finance for health care professionals. They said, not good enough.

00;27;37;27 - 00;28;02;13

Unknown

They said it's for doctors. They said not good enough. I said it's for surgeons. And they said, okay, fine, we can run with that. So my, my yes is it is meant to be for surgeons, doctors, health care professionals. But to me, I mean, who can't read a chapter on dealing with difficult personalities and, can insight be taught?

00;28;02;15 - 00;28;38;18

Unknown

And what's the most important thing that you have? I mean, these are some of the titles, you know, how to talk to yourself nicely, things like that. So it really in my mind, it was always meant to be like the other books that you see there. My hook or my differentiator was that they're coming from surgical stories, and those tend to have drama and conflict in them, and those tend to there's a little bit in there about how to be a great storyteller, what you when you have conflict in there and the stress is high, that tends to captivate peoples, captivate the brain more and activate the brain.

00;28;38;20 - 00;29;01;12

Unknown

So I would love to say it's really for everybody, but the publisher tells me when I say my books for everybody, my books for nobody. Yeah. So I have heard from you that we're not this this isn't on shelves yet. It is not. When can I get a copy and how can I get a copy? So the launch date right now is February 2026.

00;29;01;14 - 00;29;22;02

Unknown

I have taken the attitude of much like a house renovation, it will take 25% longer and cost 25% more than what I originally budgeted. I would love to get it out in February 2026. Definitely by March right now, for anybody who. The only way to sign up for the book right now is I have a landing, what's called a landing page.

00;29;22;09 - 00;29;47;13

Unknown

It's integrity surgery, morgue, no space integrity surgery, morgue. And that will take you to a website that has my picture on and says, I'm writing a book. And on there you put your first. There's a to put your first name in in your email address and then hit submit. But five seconds later, you should get a confirmatory email that says, to confirm it.

00;29;47;13 - 00;30;06;23

Unknown

And then you're in my list, which is protected and, and all that stuff. And then when I send out email blasts of like, hey, here's the cover, and when it's time to launch and preorder, you would be on the list. So that's the best way to do it right now. I also hired this company because I do zero social media.

00;30;06;25 - 00;30;34;14

Unknown

And they were the only company that was willing to work with me without doing social media. But if anybody who's listening right now is into social media and wants to take that website, blast it out there, you'll be my new best friend. But that's how to do it. Integrity surgery.org. Put your email, name and email in there, sign up, confirm your email, and then when I send out, when the marketing people from the company send out email blasts, you'll get updates on the book.

00;30;34;17 - 00;31;04;16

Unknown

Well, I'm excited to read it when I get my copy, I'll have to have you, sign it for me. Any last words that you want to say before we close this podcast out? Thanks for doing this. Not just to. I mean, yes, it's wonderful that I got to have some air time and talk about my book, but the idea of having a podcast to, have to keep your play community going.

00;31;04;16 - 00;31;34;13

Unknown

You all went through the same experience, and now you're having ongoing touchpoints is fantastic. And, those are the type of things we need in here. So, thanks. Yeah. Well, and, you know, really the intention of the play is not to just impact individual physicians, but it is to create an even larger impact in our central Ohio community.

00;31;34;13 - 00;32;04;04

Unknown

And, you know, I feel really strongly that here in central Ohio, if physicians are communicating and supporting one another, we can create a shift in how health care is delivered and received. And just really try to make that a much more humane situation for all parties involved. So thanks for taking the time to be on this. And thank you to the listeners for joining this play podcast.

00;32;04;04 - 00;32;12;22

Unknown

I hope you have a wonderful start to your holiday season, and we'll look forward to having you join us next time. Take care.

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Thank you for tuning in to the Physicians Leadership Academy podcast. This podcast is produced by the Columbus Medical Association. We hope today's conversation has inspired and equipped you on your journey as a physician leader. For more resources and to learn about applying to the PLA, visit us at Physicians Leadership academy.org.

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