Ep 10: Martial Arts, Mindfulness, and Medicine: A Conversation with Dr. Dean Agra

In this episode of The PLA Podcast, host Stephanie Costa, Director of Alumni Programming at the Physicians Leadership Academy (PLA), talks with PLA graduate Dr. Dean Agra, formerly a nephrologist and now a full-time addiction medicine physician, about how martial arts support mindfulness, grounding, and leading as one’s truest self.

Dean shares how he first explored martial arts as a child, returned to training in medical school as a physical and mental outlet, and now practices three to five times per week as a “moving meditation” that helps him stay focused and present. He discusses the complementary nature of PLA mindfulness teachings with martial arts, outlines disciplines he’s trained in (including kung fu, ninjitsu, Muay Thai, and tai chi), and offers suggestions for beginners seeking breath work, fitness, or practical self-defense.

Produced by the Columbus Medical Association

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Transcript

This transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.

[00:00:00] Welcome to the PLA podcast. This podcast was created to help graduates of the Physicians Leadership Academy at the Columbus Medical Association stay connected to the PLA teachings, mindset and community. If you're not an alum of the Physicians Leadership Academy or are not familiar with our Academy, we welcome you and we thank you for your curiosity and would invite you to enjoy our learning today.

I'm Stephanie Costa, director of Alumni Programming at the PLA, and today I am really excited to have a conversation with Dean Agra. Dean is a PLA graduate. And initially in his career, he practiced as a nephrologist and then thoughtfully made a career transition and completed an addiction medicine fellowship.

Dean is now practicing addiction medicine full-time, but when he's not [00:01:00] practicing addiction medicine, he has a passion that he pursues regularly in the form of martial arts. I thought it would be fun to have a conversation with Dean to find out. What his hobby of martial arts, it's probably more than a hobby dean, but how that influences how he practices medicine and importantly, how the mindfulness teachings of the PLA informed his lifelong pursuit of martial arts and thought all of the alumni would enjoy hearing that as well.

Dean, welcome. So excited to be with you for this podcast. Great. Thank you Steph. Really appreciate your time and excited to be here. Thanks. Yeah. So as PLA alumni, we know that in the leadership academy we place a large emphasis on leading as our truest selves, and when our leadership is in alignment with who we are as a human being.

[00:02:00] That's when we are our very best in the Leadership Academy. We also place a large emphasis on mindfulness and being grounded. And of course, this is a necessary step to knowing our truest step our truest self. So Dean, I'm really excited to talk to you about this side of you that helps you provide.

Both of those things to you. So can you talk to us about your pursuit of martial arts and how you got started with it? Oh, sure, of course. And it, sometimes it is really hard to separate and perhaps even separation is artificial. But at any rate I, growing up in the eighties, it was so hard to not be influenced by by media at that time. I had older brothers. We watched movies action figures, action Heroes. It all blended into this. Hey, I want to this thought of, [00:03:00] Hey, I want to check this out. And as a young kid, it was very dependent upon rides and transportation.

It, it started and stopped probably kind of grade school early middle school with a, a, a. A local training center, a local karate training center, and really didn't pick up again until, oh, geez until medical school actually. Wow. That's quite a break, when you think about not doing it for a number of years.

And then, having gone through medical school and knowing the intensity and the time demands, to pursue it again in medical school and pick it back up. There had to have been something about being in medical school that made it the right time. Can you speak to that? Oh, for sure.

Medical school, as we all know, is and for me in particular was a real pressure cooker. It was a time [00:04:00] of lots of demands. My, actually Ruth, my fiance, my wife now, but fiance at the time was, we were apart. She was in St. Louis going to medical school. So we were separated.

And I needed an outlet, both physical and mental. And it just so happened that one of my anatomy study mates and later a good friend was already training. He was training at a local kung fu studio. He actually was training to fight and he invited me and it took off from there.

It was what I needed at the time, and it really renewed and sparked further interest, both physical and mental to remember. I am more than just. What I'm studying, I'm more than just what I want to be. I, there's more to me than that. And it was great to be able to, in one sense, in a literal sense, take off one jacket and put on another and then just sink into our bodies.

So it was [00:05:00] the perfect time to get into that. We were already very intense in our medical school training and quite selfish also. We had to be, it was part of it, but then I needed to remind myself there was more. Wow. Beautifully stated. And I think so many times we're going through med school or our training and we're just really doing what the system of medicine is asking us to do, and your.

Having that maturity and self-awareness to realize that you were more than a med student, you were more than what you were studying, and that leaning into martial arts during that very intense time was going to. Make you more dean, and I think that's a mistake that we frequently make, especially in medicine.

We talk about it as a calling and we are always putting other people before ourselves. [00:06:00] And what we frequently don't realize is by. By really prioritizing our needs and our pursuits and being our truest selves, we bring our very best, we bring a better self to our patients, and we have more compassion and brilliance and creativity.

Wow that's fantastic that you had that awareness in medical school. So now, fast forward and I know it's incredibly important to you as you live your life as a husband, a father, a grandfather, and as an addiction medicine specialist. Can you talk about how it is now for you to have this important pursuit at this stage in your life and career?

Oh, sure. It, I, it is, it gives me grounding and foundation. I, I alluded to earlier, it's hard to separate because it very much is [00:07:00] part of who I am. Not necessarily the rankings or things like that. That's not the important part. It's it's the essence the movement.

It's my my moving meditation as you will. And I obviously can understand and know and my family knows when I'm not training. You're off, you're cranky. You're less focused. I and truthfully I'm blessed to be able to do this, to still be able to move the way I wanna move for the most part and have the time or the priority to make it.

So it is it's become a necessary kind of thing and it is just integrated. That's probably a good way into both myself my practice and all things that are important to me. That's great. I'm just curious, how often do you practice this? Sure. Right now I'm ramping up.

I, there's, there is a little test testing [00:08:00] season coming up in mid-March, but usually anywhere between three, five times a week. I, that's what. I currently do, and I have to be mindful, of course, about what my body's trying to tell me. A little bit too much recovery day, or a day to just remember and also not lose myself in, in, in that and just say, oh yeah, you know what we're going to go to a metro park and we're gonna go walk.

That's perfect. And long-winded way of saying, yeah, three to five times a week. Yeah. And you go somewhere to do this? Yes. I go to cla, I go to, currently I go to two different places in two different disciplines. And then of course at home you want to continue to Perfect. So there are just little moments, little snippets where I'll take five minutes and, practice certain aspect of what I learned or what I need to [00:09:00] sharpen up on. So just little things. Yeah. Like walking down the hall. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's that power of consistency, that just consistently having it in your life. Eventually, creates tremendous results. Talk to us about what it was like while you were going through the PLA and Janice and Phil were sharing their wisdom around mindfulness.

What was resonating with you as a martial arts practitioner and how was it coming? As you were in your martial arts environment how was the PLA mindfulness training coming up for you as you were in that martial arts environment? And how was your martial arts training coming up for you while you were at PLA?

Oh, sure. It was it was so complimentary. It was complimentary in the sense that oh [00:10:00] yeah, I've been doing this, but I didn't even realize I was doing it. And I've been doing it in different ways and then I Phil and Janice and just in talking and being around them and going through the PLA kind of reminded me that I can take the mindfulness that I've learned in different areas.

Under different circumstances and bring it further out and apply it more and more to my life instead of keeping them. Segregated or siloed which I didn't, I don't really intend to do it. Just, oh, I go to class and, this is what I do at class and then I come home and this is what I do at home.

Instead of really bringing that awareness and mindfulness. Both of my body, but also of the people around me our patients, our sparring partners, our loved ones and being mindful of [00:11:00] what those interactions are, both physical, emotional and in, in the healing arena also.

And I remember having, conversations, particularly with Janice about the meditation aspect and the breathing aspect. And we had talked specifically about movement and yoga and tai chi and energy, and it was just it was so complimentary and of feeling of, being refreshed and renewed and challenged.

Yeah. Wow. One of the things we hear a lot. Physicians who are going through PLA or even our alumni, you know that, gosh, they really enjoy the mindfulness practice and the meditation and they want to do it more often. We, we get busy and we forget or and I'm just realizing if you're practicing your martial arts three to five times a week and [00:12:00] incorporating some mindfulness in that, gosh you really must have been able to just really deepen that ability to be present fully many times during the day and week. I think, yeah. Yes it is quite helpful. I'm chuckling right now because there particularly when there is somebody else in, in sparring, which I do on occasion you get instant feedback if you're not pressing.

Oh yeah. Ouch. Yeah, it's a gentle or something else to say, oh, get back in the moment. Or where was your mind because it's not connected to your body and now they are connected and they're giving you a little signal that says Ouch. Oh my gosh. So you're making me realize how unfamiliar I am with martial arts and I will confess that my experience with martial arts is mainly through movies.[00:13:00] 

Sure. We have had a couple of, pLA alumni sessions one on Qigong and another on Tai Chi. And during the Tai Chi session, like I was really channeling my inner Uma Thurman and felt so powerful. You did, I didn't realize I, I had seen people doing Tai Chi and I really didn't realize, the, the moves were based on, actual, I don't know if I call it combat or what. And it's just really slowed down with the Tai Chi practice. So I have some familiarity with Qigong and Tai Chi. Can you tell us the types of martial arts that you practice and why? You mentioned that you go to a couple of gyms.

Sure I it's evolved. And I earlier in my career it was your basic karate dojo in medical [00:14:00] school and through residency for time maybe 10 years or so of Shain kung fu. And then during that time also there are subsets of of the, of one of the Chinese systems, and that was, is something called which is their Chinese wrestling or the Chinese equivalent to judo.

So that was incorporated. And then I took a break as for family and fellowship and then a couple years later went. And started Ninjitsu and have continued that now for the past 10 plus years. And maybe three years ago, four years ago probably more like three, I started taking Mui Thai, and also, oh yeah, I forget intermittently throughout that time Tai Chi that has helped. And then the Tai Chi journey led me to, to some training in acupuncture. Yeah I didn't mention that one staff, but, wow. Yeah I had no [00:15:00] idea. There were so many different types and I guess it, it makes sense.

So the Muai, i've heard that your wife, Ruth is joining you in We Thai now you had mentioned earlier Ruth is also a PLA grad. What's it like for the two of you to do we tie together? Oh, it's been great. I've been very thankful for her presence. And actually if I may just tell a quick story, it was Christmas, maybe two years ago. And she handed me this surprise and she had me unwrap it and it was a framed picture of her and one of my instructors at Mu Thai. They both had gloves on and they were both kinda shy. Smiling and posing. And it was our instructor, Jackie.

And I looked at her and I said what are you doing with Jackie? And she told me that for the past six weeks she was taking private lessons [00:16:00] with Jackie so that now she can join the group with us. And I was just so touched because it is not something that. She has expressed interest in before or her comfort zone, but to be, she knew that and has known that martial arts have been, a part of my life for a long time and an important part.

And that this particular school is starting to be a community, a an important part of my life and community, much like the PLA, and she wanted to, look into it and then share it with me. And I was so touched by that. And now we go to Pads class where we're only striking pads frequently, at least once or twice a week together.

And we do usually pair up. It is cathartic and we have a lot of fun. So it, it means a lot to me and to be able to share that and for her to have gone out of her comfort zone. It's just, we have a great time and I invite [00:17:00] everybody to come check it out. Ruth is such a remarkable person, as are you.

And I'm so glad you shared that story because it is such a lovely example of how we support. Those people in our lives who are so important to us. And I have always enjoyed spending time with you and Ruth, and you're a wonderful couple. And I just love that story.

But I do wanna clarify a point here. So you guys are going to this gym or dojo, or I'm not sure what you call it, with mu hai and you're putting on gloves and you're. You're punching each other with there's pads involved? Yes. Yes. There are different types of classes, but in the General Pads class we have our hands wrapped to protect our knuckles and wrists and then gloves on top.

And we have hand pads. We do a typical [00:18:00] warmup and we work on certain things that the instructor wants us to work on and we hold pads for each other. Both strikes from hand strikes, typical punches, jab, cross hook, upper cut. Then also kicks because mui t is quote unquote the art of eight limbs, which is, both hands, both elbows, both knees and both legs.

So elbowing and kneeing and kicking are all part of it. So we learn how to hold the pads for all those strikes and you know how to. Obviously do the strike properly, integrate the strike, but also how to be a good partner too. And they actually stress that you have to be a good partner. You have to hold the pads correctly and be in the right place or else people can get injured and it's just not the true spirit of things.

Wow. Wow. So I'm just picturing, your grandkids like not everybody has grandparents who do this sort of thing [00:19:00] together, so this is great. I've gotta have a conversation with Ruth, but what have you noticed in Ruth since she started doing this? First she taunts me. So she's, I always knew she, Ruth doesn't lack for confidence. But she's a bit of a trash talker oh, funny. And the taunting happens when you're at the gym? Yes. Primarily at the gym, sometimes at home, but. But yes. And like obviously I, she's gotten in much better physical shape and being a proud spouse her right cross in her right roundhouse, rear roundhouse kicks have come along nicely. Oh my gosh. A roundhouse kick. Okay, so now I'm really curious. And if people listening to this podcast are curious about martial arts, what advice might you have for them if they. [00:20:00] Really just wanna pursue it for the breath work or the body movement or the mindfulness.

Where would they start? So it I, first key is start and challenge yourself and get out of your comfort zone a little bit. But also I would. It picking the one for you, obviously it's picking the right tool or the right musical instrument. And it depends upon what you want, but if one is wanting, breath work, movement more of the inner cultivation, and if I may make a parallel to, something martial arts like, but on the yoga end of movement, something like Tai Chi would be perfect. Because like you said, there is movement. You're cultivating energy. You are, the movement is supposed to cultivate the qi.

Energy and move it around to certain spots. And then you [00:21:00] throw in the spots that it's supposed to the channels. But also the Tai Chi is, it is a martial art. It's a slower, softer martial art that can be sped up, but the movements are still very grounded and I. I believe I, it's been a while since I've actually looked at the study, but Tai Chi has been shown to improve and or prevent osteoporosis.

Yeah I think about that frequently as I age as well. But, but something along those lines just for exposure. Community rec centers freestanding kung fu places. And I can add links if you would like. Also, I don't get any fruit packs.

There's no Stark Law here. And so if someone is also listening to this and saying, wow, that sounds really fun to put on some gloves and maybe do some sparring. They want something a little more physically challenge be phy more physically challenged where would you direct them?

Because it sounds like maybe they want [00:22:00] something more than Tai Chi. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. So I would I would break that down into, do you want to learn how to stand up and strike IE punching, kicking kneeing. I would definitely lead one to check out the MUI hai.

If it is more of a wrestling kind of thing. Where you want to stand up, but then get somebody to the ground. I would lead one to check out jiujitsu or BJJ. Yeah you really can't go wrong. And the physicality is great. The workout is, the workouts are really tough. If anybody has just tried to punch a bag as hard as they could for 15 or 20 seconds.

It gets you really winded and really fast, real, really quickly. Increasing your cardiovascular is just a byproduct. It's gonna happen no matter what. It's great. Wow. Wow. That's great. And how about for self-defense? Is there one mode that, [00:23:00] that lends toward a very practical self-defense?

Yeah I would say so, and actually I haven't, I've had some exposure but haven't been in their system of training. It just I just never got around to it or I just have enough in other aspects. But probably kv, MAGA. Very practical. There is no spiritual basis. It the, from what I understand and from what I've seen, it's the whole mindset is I'm going to get home, I'm going to be safe, I'm going to get home, and I'm going to do what it takes to do that.

So you, I think that's a little difficult. That's quite difficult for me to be able to turn off. That switch or turn off that, or turn on that switch if needed. And thankfully it's never been needed. But to, we're healers, right? We care about people. We like people for 17 minutes, and then we go on to the next for, I'm just kidding.

We care about our community. It's hard to be able [00:24:00] to practice that indifference if needed, but I think K MAGA would be the most direct way because it doesn't have any That's the sole purpose of this, my understanding. Yeah. Yeah. You've got me curious about exploring Tai Chi a little more and maybe even some we Thai.

So Dean it's been so fascinating talking to you. I feel like I learned so much and that I want to learn more. Really appreciate your sharing your ongoing practice that is such a big part of you and helps you bring your very best to all that you do. Any last parting words as we wrap up the podcast?

Go PLA thank you Steph, for the time. And I just encourage people to keep moving, to keep being mindful and to get out of your comfort zone and try something different. And I greatly appreciate your time. Oh we appreciate you. Thank you so much for [00:25:00] joining us today on the PLA podcast.

More information about the Physicians Leadership Academy at the Columbus Medical Association can be found at www.physiciansleadershipacademy.org. In addition, applications for the next class in 2026 to 2027 are open. And you can find that application at the website as well. Thanks for joining us today, and we'll see you next time.