A Coffee with Renowned Indigenous Chef, Shane Chartrand!

Join us for a coffee and chat with Renowned Indigenous Chef Shane Chartrand, owner of PAPERBIRCH. From growing up on a farm outside Red Deer to competing on the national stage of Top Chef Canada, Shane’s journey is a masterclass in using doubt as fuel to build a world-class career.

Shane’s love for cooking began at a Red Deer truck stop, where he realized food could truly change someone’s day. After honing his craft at NAIT, he earned his Red Seal, a designation he views as vital to the culinary profession. As a member of the Enoch Cree Nation, Shane shares how he navigated the industry and traveled across North America to hone his skills before opening his own café, PAPERBIRCH, in the Old Strathcona Market.

Shane also pulls back the curtain on his extensive career and the "unfiltered" reality of appearing on major television shows, including Chopped, Iron Chef Canada, and Top Chef Canada (Season 11 & 12). He explains the complexity of managing a "kitchen within a kitchen" and the logistics of multi-floor culinary operations. We also dive into the three-year journey to publish his acclaimed cookbook, tawâw: Progressive Indigenous Cuisine—a title meaning "Come in, you’re welcome"—which was inspired by Michelle Peters and co-authored with Jennifer Cockrall-King.

"I knew I could change someone's life or make their day through food."

Experience Shane’s vision firsthand at PAPERBIRCH in the Old Strathcona Market, where he brings his culinary expertise and love for community together. 

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Transcript

0:01

Hi, I'm Shane Chartrand, and you're listening to Coffee In The Park with Jennifer and Cam. Jennifer, I'm just gonna say this, it's cold. It's really cold. And guess what? What? It's gonna get colder. I knew you were gonna say that. It is freezing out there. But hey, it is Alberta, and it is December. And yeah, it's all just cold. Have you dug out your winter parka? I'm refusing to wear my winter parka until it dips to minus 20 during the day. Then I'll put my winter parka on. Overnight, one day this week, I'm just gonna say it. It's gonna dip. And this is without wind, minus 38. Okay, but I'm staying inside. So there's no need for the parka because I'm staying inside. Anyways, welcome everybody to another Coffee In The Park with Jennifer and Cam. And we are coming to you again this morning, live from the Wall Coffee Roasters in the heart of beautiful downtown Acheson. So if you hear some noise in the background, maybe some kids screaming or talking or coffee machines whirring or people chattering, it's because we're live in the coffee shop. That's where we are. And it's a great day to come visit the Wall Coffee Roaster and try one of their new holiday drinks. That's right. They got their Christmas drinks out. Their eggnog latte, their peppermint mocha latte. Their, no, that's not a, the mocha is not a latte. It's just the mocha. Shows what I know about that. Yeah, I always get that. I'm always confused. And then- And the espresso cranberry tonic. I haven't tried that one yet. Me neither, but that sounds very interesting. So hey, if you're not doing anything this afternoon and it's cold where you are and you want to be warm, come down to the Wall Coffee Roasters, and have a Christmas coffee. That's right. Kind of cool. So yeah. And we want to make mention that today Coffee In The Park is brought to you by Wing Snob. Where the wings are fresh, never frozen, Cam with 16 different flavors. 16! And 4 rubs. 4 rubs, 16 flavors, best parm fries you're ever going to have. And they make this amazing cornbread. I love that cornbread. I could just eat the cornbread. But I like the wings. Well, I was going to say, we're going to start with the wings. And I always ask you this, and I do it because maybe from week to week it changes. What's your favorite flavor? Well, I really am liking the mango habanero this week. That's what you liked last week. I know, but it's still good. I was hoping you'd change it. Well, yeah. But I'm with you. It's great, that mango habanero. So, hey folks, if you've never been to a Wing Snob, you've got to go to Wing Snob. 10 locations here in the city of Edmonton. And it's a game day here in Edmonton. And I think, are the Oilers playing tonight? I don't know. I think they are. So, on game day, you can get their Wing Snob Oilers special. It's amazing. Stop by. You don't have to cook. Bring the family around the TV. Watch the Oilers game and have Wing Snob. Check them out at www.wingsnob.ca. That's it. And we'd also like to thank Mprint. Let's get that right. Mprint. Not Im. Mprint. For sponsoring us some of the most amazing printers you will ever find. They're located right here in Acheson and they do amazing work. Anything from business cards all the way up to... Well they wrap. Vehicles. They wrap. They do. Yeah. They wrap them. I don't know if they wrap your house. We should ask them. Oh, I bet they would. That would be so cool to wrap your entire house. They wrap windows like Christmas themes and Oilers themes. They do Oilers themes and Christmas themes. But hey, give them a call. Whatever you might need, whether it's brochures or booklets or business cards or whatever it is, Mprint here in Acheson, they're amazing. www.mprint.ca. Check them out. I'm really excited about today's show because we have a guest who's going to talk about one of my favorite topics. Food. Yeah, food's the way to. Right now, food. The world's going crazy. The stabilizer is food. You're right. I'm going to run on that platform. I'm going to run for office on that platform. It's part of the realest party, Cam. That's right. Part of the realest party. Jennifer and I have started the realest party. You don't have to pay to join. You don't get to vote for anything, but you're just part of the realest party. You're just real. Anyway, I'm so excited about our guest today. I think this is going to be a great show. And Jennifer, introduce him. Okay. Let's go. Our guest today is Shane Chartrand. Welcome, Shane. Good to have you. Chef Shane. Hello. Thank you very much. Do we call you Chef or what would you like us to call you? You can call me Shane. Okay. But I like Chef because I think that's cool. I like Chef too because I've earned, I believe, I've earned that title. That's right. And so, if you've probably heard this name before, folks, because Shane was a contestant on Top Chef Canada, did I say that right? Yes. Top Chef Canada, Season 11. Season 11. And so you might have watched him. You know, I actually, I first saw you, I'll tell you where I first saw you, at Q-Bar. Oh, Q-Bar, that must've been a while ago. I was there with a friend of mine, Adam, and Adam, he pointed, you were at the bar, and he goes, do you know who that guy is? And I have to admit, at that time, I did not know who you were. Yeah. He goes, that's Chef Shane Chartrand. Right. And I was too scared to come up and say hi, so I didn't do that. Okay, before we talk about that, I gotta bring it back to your original conversation that you were having prior to me jumping in with you. Yeah. Food. Food. Okay, listen, this is how I do my Christmas. If there's kids or adults that are very sticklers on what they specifically want, that's fine. Yeah. I'll get you what you want. Yeah. Yeah. But who is to say food is not the best Christmas gift? Oh, 100%. I agree. If my family's listening, this is good right now. Yeah. Okay. So my brother is going to laugh. He's going to laugh because my brother doesn't watch TV, doesn't listen to radio. But this is why I can spoil it for him, for your listeners because this is the truth. Yeah. Cree, tâpwê, truth. Rib eye. I'm going to buy him a whole, an entire rib eye. Do you mean one of them big ones with the bone? No, not a tomahawk. No, just a bone out rib eye. Rib roast, like a prime rib. But are you going to make it for him? No, no. Like he gets the whole thing. Here you go. See, that is the most amazing gift ever. Now, I imagine something like that, you can't leave under the tree for a week. No, he'll get it the day of, that's right. Yeah, he'll get it the day of. I work in the Old Strathcona Farmers Market, I got a cafe there. Yes, you do. So they have, I'm going to get my dad some wild game, my mom some seafood, she loves lobster. My brother loves anything food. And then all the kids and everything just get what they want. Oh, I love it. Food? When does food become so bloody expensive that now it's a gift? Well, no, that's right, right? Like 10 years ago, giving a steak would have meant whatever. Just whatever. Did you just give me a steak for Christmas? You got to take a third mortgage out just to get a decent steak. I know, that's anything! It's ridiculous. I know, anything. $60 something dollars. You'll see a couple of steaks in whatever store. Like $45? Yeah! What happened? It's nuts, but it's getting worse. But anyway. That's another podcast. We don't need to get into that. But I love what you're saying. Giving the gift of food. Because this is great. I think it's fabulous. But we need to take it back to the very beginning. There's so much to know about our guest today. He's an amazing guy. He's done amazing things. And let's start from the beginning. Where did it all start for Chef Shane? Where did you grow up? Okay, I'll make this real quick, snappy, as fast as possible. I grew up on a farm outside of Red Deer. I came to culinary school because I wanted to be a chef. Everyone, I'm just going to say it the way it is. Everyone laughed. Everyone thought it was a silly idea. A chef has a career. That's not a career. I'm like, okay, the more you say no, the more I want to do it. So I went to culinary school, got my Red Seal in my 20s. I'm 50 now. I've been cooking a long time. I never quit either. I never quit because you know what? I could go up north. I could make my money on the oil rigs or whatever. I didn't want to be the guy to do that. I worked my way up the ladder the way you're supposed to. That doesn't happen anymore. Everyone thinks you're just a chef at 20. Self-proclaimed or no culinary school at all. Self-proclaimed. I did everything the way I was supposed to, including wine training. Then I moved here for school, finished that and went to hotels, restaurants, bistros, Japanese joints. And then I starred in competition. Then I started travel. Then I wrote a book. And then I kept traveling more. Yeah. Okay. But I really, really. So, what age were you when you thought, when you really started liking cooking? Like, how old were you? Oh, yeah. Really young. You know what it was? I'm going to tell you what the epiphany was. I saw a couple. They were really young, too. A couple came into the restaurant I was at. I don't know how long have you lived in? Do you live in Edmonton? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was born here. So, there you go. You know the place. Yeah. When I was younger, when I was younger, a couple came in. I mean, when I was in my 20s, a couple came into the restaurant and the owner said, cook for them. And I'm like, sounds good. And it was their first date. Oh, yeah. And so went out and they were so happy and they were in love with each other. And I was thinking to myself, wait a minute, they actually drove all the way out here to this crappy place I'm working at. It's long gone. You don't want to name it? It was in Red Deer. Oh, okay. We are in Red Deer. Before, this is the epiphany to go to culinary school and become a chef. Right, right. So it was across the street from the tea cup restaurant, Glenn's Restaurant, down. But no, it wasn't Glenn's. I did work at Glenn's as a kid, but it was down from there, long torn down. It was a truck stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A true truck stop. Yeah, true truck stop. That's where they wanted to go for their dinner. Right. And my food affected them so much, I thought about it. I'm like, you know, I could be a plumber, but I'm paid to do a job. Right. Right? Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that job. No, good job. Yeah. Or am I going to be selfish and take in that self-gratification that I'm going to get right away, or possibly the insult of bad food right away? Right. I better be good. Yeah. So because I made such an impression on them, it made me think, you know what? I can actually change people's day. Right. I can change their lives in one sitting. And that couple has been affected by what I cooked for them. And then boom. Well, that's true, right? Because if you've had a really good meal at a restaurant, you never forget it and you talk about it for the rest of your life. If you've had a bad meal, you'll never go back. That's it. You'll never go back. That's exactly it. And the point on that is you wake up in the morning, you burn your toast, you're pissed off. Yeah, yeah, that's right. You're going to work, ahh. Yeah, no. It's going to affect your mood. Absolutely. Yeah, a burnt toast can wreck your whole day. Yeah, I'm just saying. Or a bad cup of coffee. You are Cree, from Enoch Cree, is that correct? Yeah, I'm also from the Enoch Cree Nation. Yeah, that's right, which is for those listening around the world, because we have listeners around the world, that is Enoch Cree Nation is just right next to Edmonton. Yeah, I drive by it every day, I go by it every day on my way home. And so yeah, great place, wonderful people. And so 20 years old, you caught the bug, or earlier than 20. Yes, yes, I was no, I was probably just a little over 20, 21, 22. Yeah, I'm like, I got to be a chef. But there's more to it. Yeah, anybody in your family, a chef? No, nobody. You're the only one. No one, just myself, me and people. My family still are blown away. Especially my dad. Yeah. He's just like, I can't believe you picked culinary as a career. I just, I never expected you to go this far. Was he supportive of that? Oh, yeah, my mom and my dad still are. And they're around and still loving, you know, following my stuff. They don't always get it. And I understand. The food world is ever-changing. That's why the cookbook, Tawâw, means come in. Okay. Like as you enter Edmonton, Tawâw, come in, come in, welcome. You're welcome. It basically just means come in, you're welcome. Which is what the book means. And then Progressive Indigenous Cuisine on that cookbook just means food is ever-changing. Not progressive as in getting finer diner. That's not it. Fine dining has nothing to do with it. It's just food is changing. So my family don't follow it like I do. No one does. Wow. That's okay. Yeah. So you went to culinary school. Yeah. Here in Edmonton. I went to NAIT. NAIT. I'm a proud NAIT grad. Right on. I actually have a NAIT sweater. Go ookpiks. No, but I just got a new one. I'm 50 now. And I throw on it. They got this new black one out. It's really cool. And like, because people steal them. Like, what the heck? Like right off your back or what, man? Like, that's really great. Okay. You went to NAIT. Yes. Then you graduated. And you're a Red Seal chef. Yeah, I'm a Red Seal chef. That's like important for people to know. You're certified. Yeah. So this is the thing for people to know, though. I'm a certified cook. The Red Seal is like a plumber. You can't be a plumber without a Red Seal. Right, right. You can't be a chef without a Red Seal, but you are not a chef. You earn that title. That's why it's important that you ask. I like that. I didn't know that. Yeah, you have to earn the chef title. Right. And that's why I don't want people to whip it around like, with no regard. I'm a chef. How can you possibly be a chef at 23? How, unless you literally took no day off, you cooked day and night for the past two straight years and years and years. Actually, to be honest, you should be in your early 30s to mid 30s to be a proper chef. Really? You should be. But now everyone whips it around and that's why. If you think about it, that's like a doctor. Seriously, right? Because you're not a real doctor at 21. Or even at 27 when you graduate from med school. You gotta put your time in. Think about, put it in this regard. You have to know meat cutting, baking, knife skills, gourmanger, rotisseur, you have to poissonnier, which is French terms for like fish cookery, meat cookery, grill, grilling, marinating. Then you have to do cold kitchen where years ago when I worked at the Four Seasons, which is a Sutton place, you'd have a kitchen, in a kitchen, in a kitchen. So this is the main kitchen. Then that would be a temperature control kitchen inside the kitchen. And there's a chef that runs that part. I was a chef of the Fantasyland, three floors into the downstairs all the way up, two kosher kitchens, plus I was their private chef and I had to run all the kitchens. And then there's catering. Folks, you never, the average person coming in to the restaurant knows none of this, none of this. We just come to eat, to have a good meal. We have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. So here's another small example is that we already know because of training, how, when you're making a cheese and meat cracker platter, how big does it need to be for 50 people? We know by a box of crackers or if we make the crackers, whatever it might be, lavash or whatever, we'll already know what amount that should look like. A prime rib, just looking at it. Normally you weigh it and go, okay, if everyone's getting six ounces, the yield could be, do your math. We already know because you've been trained. So I did dinner theater. I've done all of it. That's all mathematics and so that is more information. I think it's incredible. In essence, there's a science behind this. There's a real science behind it. That people have no idea. Yeah, no idea. What you had to do to get to where you are today, the steps you had to go through, the places you had to tell. So tell us when you graduate, tell us some of the places you've worked. You mentioned a couple, Four Seasons. I worked in Edmonton. I worked at a place called Dante's Bistro and Sky Lounge, if you remember that place in the West End. Dante's with Chef Emmanuel David. I worked with him for quite a few years. He taught me a lot of good old school French terms. Then I worked at the Union Bank Inn. I worked at the Fantasyland Hotel. Then I switched over and worked at. Actually Dante's had a sushi bar in there too. We got a little bit of a touch of that. Noodle bowls, rice bowls. An then we, and then I worked, where the heck else did I work. Then I worked at the Hotel Mac, just the staple places you've got to go to. I felt it was necessary for me to be who I am. It's necessary to be able to do these things. Nowadays, this is what's destroying our world, is Pinterest and Instagram. So everyone gets ideas way quicker. Way back then, yes I know, call me old, call me whatever you want. Don't matter to me. It is what I'm, that's my age. So back then, what did you get inspired, what are you opening a better Betty Crocker cookbook? And getting inspired by the Coil, by the Coil. The coil bound. Like no thanks. No pictures. But listen to this, I was 23, somewhere in here, I opened up this book, Susur Lee. And Susur Lee, he's a colleague, he's from Toronto, he's Chinese, but does French cuisine mixed. He was like the king of fusion. When fusion was a thing. Now it's just a thing. Yeah. Mixed, there's no term anymore. But I was searching, because let's say, if we all graduate from school, we all follow each other's path, where are you gonna, how can, your marks are better, your marks are better, how am I gonna keep up with you, with you two? What's gonna make me stand out? Okay, so how am I gonna pull this off? I love my culture, I know nothing about my culture at a young age. So I went down that. But it was Susur Lee's Chinese cookbook that introduced me, because it had a wild game, it had birds, it had talons, it had beaks, it had feathers. You're not eating the beaks, it's just a picture of emotion. It's hunting, it's catching. I think you're right, because I think of like Julia Childs. She was an instigator for so many people in French cuisine. That's right. You're right. The cookbook with the spine, the coil spine, maybe not my... No, it's just... It's not gonna do much for you. It's just whatever... Yeah, it gets you where you go, that type of thing. Whatever grabs you. And that's what made me think, this is the path I need to be on, except not Chinese. My path. Your path. So I felt it was necessary. But why TV then? Why would I do that next? Why do you travel in TV than traveling all the way through? So let's talk about that. So now you're doing... Yes. How would you categorize your food? I do Progressive Indigenous Cuisine. Okay. Called nêhiyawi-, which is a word for Cree that is not Cree. It means Cree. So we're nêhiyawi- people, not Cree people. Okay. So I decided to start traveling to learn more. Sure. So, but you gotta realize I'm taking a big jump in not making any money. Of course. Yes. Yeah. So I'm gonna not make any money by learning. But stage in the culinary world and everyone has to do it. You have to just go, throw a bag on your back and go, bring your knives and just go learn. Right. And just travel. Would you do it? I don't know. I don't know. That's a pretty big risk. It is. It is. Yeah. That's what we do. Yeah. So where all did you go? I've cooked in New York, Chicago, LA. Northwest Territories, well, Behchokǫ̀, Cairo, Egypt, Sharm El Sheikh, sorry. And then just like all around Canada. Yeah. Yeah. All the major cities in the US. I've been in all the major cities in Canada. How long did you spend in each of those places? This is my question. Some months, some days. Yeah. Yeah. Some of them were called upon, some were not. Right now, I'm really trying to win over a spot up at Tuktoyaktuk. Really? To go whale, seal hunting or whale hunting. I won't get into that, but it's a dream of mine. Yeah. That would be incredible. It would be life changing. Oh, I can only imagine. We don't realize what we really have until we're taken in and we get back home in our own bed all snuggly. Yeah. No, I agree. Yeah. But then I thought to myself, wait a minute. Okay. So that's traveling and I'll continue that. But now why the cookbook came to me. Yeah, tell us about that. Somebody saw Michelle Peters. She's a food blogger. I can't remember. Yeah, yeah. She saw something that day. She's like, you need to write a book. It's incredible. Your food is beyond words. I can't explain what this is like to me. I would like to do Indian food because she's East Indian. I would like to do East Indian food in the same as yours, but I don't know how because I'm not a chef. But you need to write a book. So me and Jennifer Cockrall-King, who's a food writer, blogger, food writer, period, we connected. We were always crossing paths. Sure. But we never really had a real big reason. How many people you've crossed in your world? Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So we crossed paths and she's like, I love your story. I love your ideas. I'll journal it. Let's get going. And then we thought we'd be done in two years, took three. Because there was a year where me and her really had to, personal reasons. Yeah, yeah. My personal reasons, then she had personal issues. Right, right. Like family stuff. But I think people think writing a cookbook is just getting a whole bunch of recipes. And growing it in a book. Yeah, putting it in the book and now you got a cookbook. Obviously, this is not it. The next book will be easier. Yeah, for sure. You've done it already. Yeah. So, me and you want to write a book, three of us were going to travel all the way across Canada and come back. That's right, all the way through. When we get back, we're going to journal all of our notes and come up with a great cookbook. Wouldn't that be a sick story? That would be an amazing story. Think of what it would do for the podcast. It would be unbelievable. But then think about this. So, it sounds easy. Then you're thinking about who's going to… Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's your publishing company? We're going to do it on our own. No, no, no, no. You sure about that? Yeah. Because if you do it on your own, you do know. Yeah. You make all the money. Right. But are you going to have the book that you're picturing in your mind? Who's going to publicize it for you? Who's going to get it out there? 50 grand. Yeah. You got 50 grand? I certainly don't. And then who's going to book our flights and our book tours? Yes. Not us. No, it's true. We're not doing it. Then, but that's what I'm saying, but then you have to think about who's going to test your recipes to make sure they work. Because a lot of the cookbooks, I'm not going to say who, I know, are not been tested. So you've invested yourself into a cookbook that doesn't work. So how does that work? You get a recipe that you think you want to publish. I give it to you because you're a food writer. Here's $1,000. Give me the results. Yes, it works. No, it doesn't. You need more of this. You need more of that. How many times do you cook that dish as the chef? I do it. It depends. Some of my recipes are really simple. Some are really complicated. And the good thing about the publishing company that I went with is they were okay with storytelling. I won't say the other publishing companies. They're all great. But there's three other ones I was choosing from. Big ones too. But they're like, you can't have stories. It's just a cookbook. Or you have to fend for yourself out there. But we'll put it together. Get all the information. We'll tell you what to do. Get everything together and we'll get it for you. Okay, now skip all that publishing part. Paper. Where's your paper coming from? It's important. Are you so, so worried about that? I'm not. I wasn't. Because you're a chef. You're not worried about paper. Some people are. Some people are like, no, I want my paper from Canada. Oh, okay. Only Canadian trees. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's like, okay. But then you got to talk about gloss, the amount of pictures. Yeah, yeah, putting it all together. Who you're thanking, legal fees, never-ending. So when you put a recipe in a cookbook, is that trademarked? Is that recipe yours? No, no, no. It's out there now. Anybody can use it. Do it. Change it. Do whatever they want. You can say what you will. And those people out there know who written a cookbook. Yeah. You don't make money of a cookbook. Okay. What you do is you make your name. Right. So how many chefs do you know of? Restaurant? Yeah. Cookbook? Yeah. Or whatever else? No, just you. Just you is all I know today. You're the only one. But you know Lynn Crawford. You watch Top Chef Canada. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She just wrote a book. I just looked at hers yesterday. So it's, but it's enlightening to see how other people approached it. Yeah. But that is a really, that's a massive struggle to write a book. Okay, so you mentioned it. And let's go down that road of Top Chef Canada. Oh, Top Chef Canada. How did you get on? I like what, how did, well, just how did it all happen? So this is my ninth show. So let's start from, I was on Chopped. I was on Chopped initially. And I applied three times and didn't get on, till finally they got me on. Right. And I did really well. Right. Then in the next show, they called me and they said, we want you to be on the Wall of Chefs. Oh, okay. And I was on four episodes. I didn't apply. Right. I was a judge. Oh, pretty cool. I'm like oh my god, I'm jumping around, woo-hoo! Yeah, that's pretty cool. Then I got the call, Iron Chef Canada. Okay. They were only handpicking two seasons. And you're one of them. Wow. I lost my marbles. I lost it. You gotta realize, it doesn't matter if it's Top Chef, Iron Chef Canada, Iron Chef US. Yeah. None of them are really around. Right. These shows are all done. Yeah. It doesn't matter. It's still the same lights. Yeah. It's still the same stress. Yeah. Oh my goodness. But even though you say none of them around, people still remember. They're still, yeah, you can still. Yeah. They talk about those shows. Yeah, they're still. Yeah. Because now there's no, well, there's internet, but I still miss internet. Stacked TV, Pro-Media, you can go back. So for those who are listening, because we do have listeners right around the world, in North America, they have like the Food Channel. You probably watch it over in Germany or wherever else too, but they're all associated with that, the Food Channel or whomever. So we have the Canadian version, the American version, and they do the same shows kind of back and forth. The Food Network. Yeah, the Food Network. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now it's Flavor, but around the world, they have Iron Chef Brazil, Iron Chef Mexico. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. All over the place. Yeah, so it's still hanging on, but they're done. Okay, so you're now on Iron Chef Canada. So Iron Chef Canada. A participant. Iron Chef, as a participant, did really well. Then the next show was a show called Fridge Wars on the CBC Gem. Fridge Wars. Fridge Wars. Fridge Wars. It was fun! Okay, tell us about Fridge Wars. Yeah, Fridge Wars. I love that name. I love that name. Fridge Wars. Literally, the TV crew shows up at your house, takes pictures of your fridge, shows up at your house, takes pictures of your... Yeah. No, no, your fridge. Then they make two refrigerators on two stages with your fridge. Okay. They even had a frozen goldfish in one of them. No! And so you have to come in and cook? And cook with whatever is in that fridge. Make a three-course dinner. Was it a three-course? Did you cook a goldfish? No. No. But it was funny that it was there. Like they took leftovers of... Like if there was a moldy grilled cheese, it would be in there. And you have to make a dish? A moldy grilled cheese. No, it's full. It's your fridge. Yeah. Okay. So whatever you have leftover is gonna be in there. You don't have to use the leftovers. I see. Okay, okay. You can use whatever. It's just literally your fridge. Round two comes in. Olympians, musicians, whatever is round two. Then they stack up the points. Winner is the winner. Oh, okay. Okay. I'm gonna have to go look that up. Honestly. Because that looks, yeah, CBC Gem, because that looks interesting. It was fun. It was hard. It was grueling. It was, there were switches. I thought it was the most, the best show. Yeah. Now, after that one, I did a couple of documentaries. Right. And then I got back, and then Top Chef Canada called me and said, you are an icon in the Indigenous world, culinary world. Yeah. Yes. So we want you to compete. But you got to tell us. I won't say too much about who called me, because I don't think you're allowed to know. But so they called me, and I still had to, because you got to apply, right? Yeah. So I still had to apply, and I still had to show that I'm good. Yeah. I can move. You know what I'm saying, right? So tell us about, we all watch these shows, and they're an hour long with 10 commercials. So they're really 45 minutes long. It is so true. So we're watching 45 minutes of what looks like you did that in 45 minutes. Yeah. A day and a half. Day and a half. Per show. Per episode. About a day and a half per episode. Oh yes. And also this year I did season 12 as well. So for a day and a half, you're doing one episode. I did season 11 as a competitor. And this year, I did season 12 as a judge. So this year as a judge, I got to know both sides. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Back up to being a competitor. It's crazy the things that people don't see. But you know that, you naturally know that. But the thing is you don't really know how bad things can get that affect your results. I want to ask the question, how bad do things get? Okay, a small example. I shoved fish bones in the tips of my thumbs. But I mean, bad. What kind of? Perch. Oh, yeah, little, yeah, little, sharp bones. And so during my seafood one, which you don't see, those fish bones came out, where I showed the medic. Remember, I was complaining about those fish bones. Cause like, imagine all the way through, I'm like, cause the next, once I shoved those bones in my thumb, thumbs, it was by pure accident, clearly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. I'm like, I don't know if I can finish this. I am dying here. I am dying. You know the feeling of having shoved way deep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's one small little thing. Nevermind. And so you have to stop the show? No. No, no, no, no. No, you just keep going. You're cooking with fish bones in there. It's up to you. So I cooked, I did the whole series, the whole series with fish bones shoved in my thumbs. Then you get people that like other people or friends with other people and rooting for themselves. Then you get floods in the kitchen. Really? There's a huge flood. Oh my gosh. Yeah, see, because again, what we see is basically flawless. Yeah. It's smooth. They'll show the odd thing. But also here's something else too, is they change your personality. So you're nice. Yeah. Someone can't be nice. It's got to be... Really? Well, I'm not saying that they switch it that way. But there's got to be the antagonist, almost, like the... Yeah. You got to have different personalities for it, because we're all different. Sure. And on Season 11, sorry, yes, Season 11, I got to know everybody. And so my personal feelings of them are different. And then I watch them on TV, I'm like, oh, weird. I don't know how to feel. You know what I mean? Even about yourself, like, they made me look very serious. They dropped all my jokes aren't in there, my laughing's aren't in there, my smiles aren't in there. I was very serious right from the start. Really? Yeah. They edited all that out. Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. So you don't know what you look like until nine months later. You don't have a, you have no clue how your hair looks. And you have no say in it. No. Just the way it is. You have to sign. Okay. Yeah. See, this is like incredible to me. But that's what I'm saying. Are you willing to, are you really, like you said, are you willing to do that? Yeah. So the reason I did it and the reason why I do TV is because I like to challenge myself. Yeah, yeah. I like to say I did it. If I win, if I was to win, let's be honest, it's not that much money. Well, yeah. It's a good chunk to take care of a car. But it's notoriety. No, it's not. Yeah, it's notoriety. It's everything. But here's the question. Here's the question. Is the real winner the winner who wins first place in a show like that to you? Or is the winner the person you're cheering for? Of course. Right. Yeah, yeah. That's a good point. That's it. Because if you have your favorite, even if they don't win, they're still your favorite. Yeah. You're not switching to the winner. And that's what I did. And believe it or not, we just finished watching season 12. Really? And my guess was the winner. Really? And I was ready to say, no, no, no, no, no, I can't. I made my choice. Here's something else. Who do you represent? Yourself, your family, your background, your heritage? Of course. Your teacher, your culinarian? And how did you feel about that? Well, but I'm asking you that, right? Like how do you go on? And so when people ask that, you're judging my entire world of culinary arts in one show. Right, right, right. All my life. So you have to think about that, too. Yeah. Yeah. I could have done that. Oh, that was simple. Did you feel more pressure because you were Indigenous? No, no. I felt, as long as they get the right spirit behind what it is, I'm okay with it. Yeah. What I was a little concerned about is how they took it. And there's some goods and bads in there, mostly goods. I just felt like this, some of the stuff I did, it was repeated. Right. And then other people did well because of it. I'm like, wait a minute. I did that exact thing. That was me. Yeah. Like, where did that come from? But that's okay. That's how we learn. But this is the thing. My name is Shane, Chef Shane Mederic Chartrand. Chef Mederic Chartrand. Métis. My real name is Cree. Shane St. John Gordon. Do I represent the Enoch Nation? Do I represent the Métis family that I was adopted in? Do I represent Chef Shane Chartrand from NAIT? Or do I represent Shane the guy? Yeah. And? So, but that's what I'm saying. Of course I can represent just who I am as a whole, right? Shane the guy. The author. I'm just going to do the very best I can. But I did all Indigenous food. Someone came to me and said, how? You're going to lose. Why would you say that? Yeah. Why would you? Why would you stick it in my head? Yeah, that's ridiculous. Because I need, I need, you need it. I need to stay focused. You need a mentor. Yeah, yeah. But I don't have one anymore. It's just me. Yeah. I'm at the age where my, they're all retired. Now people are looking at you as their mentor. That's right. So how am I going to affect kids, adults, people who don't know anything about the Indigenous world? Why don't I put out ingredients they've never heard of? And any, anyways, to back it up, he said, you'll never make it because they can't even judge your food. They don't know what reindeer lichen is. They don't know what bear grease is. They don't know what Saskatoon berries are on the East Coast. On the East Coast. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you need to go. But we know what they are here. That's right. For sure. And then you got nettles and then you got chaga. I don't get that because what difference does it make? If you've never had it and you're trying it and you like it, who cares? But that's what I'm saying. That's how I am with food. That's what I would be like. I don't know if I'm going to... Clearly, I'm not going to put some weird... No, but... You know what I'm saying. Yeah. But I mean, indigenous is just another genre of food. Like South Asian or Mexican or whatever it might be. That's right. It's just another genre of food. Yeah. And there's a specific diet that we follow, clearly. Yeah, yeah. But he said they're not going to be able to understand anything so they can't judge it. I think that's a good point. And then I was on the next morning, the next day... Or sorry, when it's all done, I rewatched it eight months later. And the one girl couldn't actually say one of the ingredients I put up. She's like, whatever this is, is over cooked. I'm like, what do you mean, whatever this is? It's supposed to be. Yes. That's the point. It's grilled. So it was a grilled bannock. OK. So I've done bannock, baked, grilled, fried, open fire on sticks. This was baked, but like meant to be this way. Right. And to her, it was too overcooked. And that's fine. Sure. It's fine. To her palate, as people like to say. I hope that word someday goes away. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Palate. Whatever. But yeah. So OK. So there it is. A lot. There's a lot of things that run through your brain. And as the show's going on, you what are you thinking? Just let me not be the first one. Yeah. Yeah. And then you make it. Then you make it. And you're like, let me not be the second one. Yeah. Wait a minute. Yeah. Yeah. The pressure intensifies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're like, and then you're like, okay, so I'm all the way up to halfway mark, right? I'm like, do I? And I win the day. I'm like, do I use that word, pivot? Yeah. And go back to French cuisine that I know? No. No. Do I finish it off with French cuisine? Or do I keep on the Indigenous that I was meant to be? Where you started. Yeah. So I stayed, but I could have changed. And who knows what the outcome could have been? Buttery, fattier, more French, more delicious. So how far did you go? You went to? I made it to the fifth place. Fifth place. Yeah. So I was one away from the finale. Right. Right. Or two. So what did it feel like when you? Oh, yeah. So you haven't seen it, right? No, I haven't. But I will now. But I'll just say because I don't want to spoil it for you guys. My ingredient was garbage. Garbage ingredient. Like it's a good ingredient. Yeah. But everyone's like when I was finally for me to go, everyone's bringing out perch and seaweed and it was everything from the, I can't remember what else they brought out. And then I saw mine. I'm like, oh, it's over. Yeah. There's no way. Okay, that's it. I'm watching it tonight. I'm going to watch it tonight. Yeah. I got to see this now. But there's so much more to it that makes it exciting. So there's no, there's no, I love doing TV period. Did your life change after that? No, no. No. A lot of other people it did because they're in bigger cities. Right. But back on that note, this is why I think all we focus on is hockey. In Edmonton? You mean in Edmonton? In Edmonton. Yeah. Well, yeah. But who, what other rock stars do we have here? Wow. There's a lot. Like we should be celebrating anyone. Well I agree. There's a lot of people in the arts. Yeah. A lot of singers. Yes. A lot of performers. There's lots of chefs. Yeah. In the culinary world, I believe that we need to look, dive a little deeper. Right. What place did you see her going to? Like an old school, Italian place, you're thinking about checking out. You know, who says it's not their turn to be the next rock star? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, if they're in their 60s or 70s. So tell us now, you have a restaurant now. Oh, yeah. I got Paperbirch, which is just a little cafe in the Old Strathcona Market. Great place. Old Strathcona Market. Yeah. Yeah. I still work with youth. As a matter of fact, I just got off the phone with the Terra Center. Oh, yeah. I'm teaching them how to the young... Come on. My daughter volunteers there. Yeah. Yeah. So then we know each... I know her. Yeah. I don't know if you tell me her name. I won't remember. We'll talk. Yeah. I know. Yeah. We'll talk after. Yeah. But that's really cool. Yeah. So I do... I teach the young ladies how to cook. Yeah. That's awesome. And then I teach Indigenous elders about Indigenous food. Right. Because some of them came from residential schools, which were... food was taken away. Yeah. And I truly believe, you know, language, dance, culture, that's one part of it. But food was taken away too. You can't find food traditions in the Indigenous people. Like, there's no such thing as Indigenous food. It's because it was taken away. We're not going to go down that negative... Yeah. But you're right. Yeah. But you're revisiting it. You're bringing it back. So, I am adopted. And I was adopted into a Metis family. I did find out I was from Enoch when I was 30. Okay. 30. Okay. Yeah. 29. Yeah. So from 29 to 50... Well, before that, I was already doing Indigenous food. Right. Right. But I didn't know how. Right. So I'm like, okay, when I found out I was from Enoch, it was like, catch up time. Okay, now for the rest of my life, I've got to keep learning about Indigenous. And I mean, I've got ulu knives to regalia, to bear claw necklaces, not stuff like this is to brag about. No, no. It's just stuff I've collected. Yeah, it's fascinating. And I've been gifted. Absolutely fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a good, good strong spirit. And right now we also do Indigenous dinners. Indigenous dinners in the evening time that are loaded with storytelling. Yeah. But really deep storytelling will make you laugh, make you cry, make you think, make you walk a better life. Right. And I think right now in our world, we need to laugh more. We need to walk better. And no matter how sick we get, we're all sick. We just don't want to admit it. Right. That life is short. Let's live a good life. Yeah. You know, I love that you say, tell the stories. Stories, oh yeah. And this is how this podcast got birthed. Is we just want, it's the story behind the story. We just want to tell the stories. But isn't, yeah, but isn't there something, and you and I have always said this, because I think it's a piece that's missing, too, from our world today, is sitting down with friends and family, over food, and telling those stories, and connecting. Yeah. The stories from way back, the stories that mean something, meant something then, but should mean something today as well. Yeah. And it's funny that you say that too, because my dad's dad's dad, that's old. Yeah. There's a spoon that's cut off with a hole in it in our fishing box. I'm like, what is that? It's like my dad's, granddad's dad. Yeah. Uses the spinner. He had no money. Yeah. I'm like, he fished with a spoon? Yeah. I know, eh? And that stuff just blows you away. I know, but my dad's like, I just leave it there. I'm like, No! There's a story there. Yeah, that's a good enough story. And the fact that it just is broke. Hopefully we catch something on it. He's like, yeah, I think we caught it. Man, oh man. Can you just talk it, no nonchalant. Yeah. We live good lives and we have an opportunity to make somebody feel better about their life, whether it's feeding them or talking to them or making their day that way. Absolutely. Man, I feel like we could just go on forever here. This is just, it's blowing me away. It's fascinating. I love you. I love what you're doing. This is absolutely incredible. But time is our constraint. So again, so many questions. Yeah. So many questions. So many questions. Is there any last questions? Yeah, there is. There is a last question. We ask every, every guest. So yeah. Okay. So Shane, what is the best piece of advice that you've been given either personally or professionally that you still carry with you to this day? Oh my God. I know there is, um. And we purposely put you on the spot. Ask it again. Best piece of advice you've been given either personally or professionally that you carry with you to this day. I have it. I'm going to tell you right now. Give me one second. I'll tell you. Okay. Give me a second here. Okay. Okay. So I've been trying. This is a piece of advice that a lot of people have given to me to explain to you what Indigenous Cuisine is. What is it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like you left me hanging here. But this isn't my words. This is your words, your words. Cree, Blackfoot, Stoney, the Bloodfoot, the Blood Tribe. So this isn't really a piece of advice, but it's a cuisine meaning. Okay. So Indigenous Cuisine's meaning that I've been able to gather, that makes you walk this earth the way I do, is it's ethically collected ingredients that have been cooked in a traditional manner that evokes emotion and the spirit of life. Oh, wow. I love that! So that's because people have influenced my spirit through their food, to their speeches, to their conversations. So they gifted me this information. I hope that helped. I love, because you know what? That's not just, what you just read there is actually profound because I don't believe that that just applies to Indigenous. No. It could apply to. Absolutely. Heritages and ethnicities, like German, Polish, French. Yeah. At that, we got to get that from you. You got to send that to us because we got to put that on our website because that's phenomenal. I agree. That's really incredible. This has been phenomenal. I'll tell you what this has been, folks. I'm going to be honest with you. Jennifer, it's blown my mind. It's just totally blown my mind because I feel like today, a whole new world has been open. And Chef, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not sure what I expected for you coming in, but this is phenomenal and I think this is great. Yeah. Yeah. And so we want people to know, first of all, where can they find your cookbook? Yeah. Any major cookbook. Okay. Amazon. Indigo, and Chapters. It's a major cookbook. Amazon. Okay. We're three weeks away from Christmas. This would be a phenomenal Christmas gift. Amazon next day delivery. All right. So I'm just saying. And where can people, again, they can check out Paperbirch at the Old Strathcona. Farmer's Market off White Ave, Edmonton. Okay. Is there a website or you're on Instagram? You might know that. Yeah, there's, I don't know what it is. OldStrathconafarmersmarket.ca. Yeah. I believe. Okay. Amazing. Fantastic. We're coming there to eat. We are. So just so you know, we're coming to eat. We're going to do that. And I want you to cook for us because I think it would be absolutely fantastic. Folks, this has been great. I love this. We could do like nine episodes of this. We could do like Top Chef Podcast Canada. This would be like unbelievable. Oh, yeah. Just food alone. The things that are like over stimulated. Just anything. Fantastic. Hey, everybody, just a reminder, don't forget, talking about food, www.wingsnob.ca, fresh, never frozen. Best wings you're ever going to have in the city. Unbelievable. Mprint, they do an amazing job. If you're looking for stuff to be printed, they do amazing menus, whatever it is, they'll do it up for you. And hey, you got to make sure you tell people about the podcast. Thanks for listening today. Tell your friends, tell your neighbors, tell your coworkers, tell your enemies. If you don't have a friend, make one, just so you can tell them about this podcast. You know what? What? If you're looking to make a friend, you can buy them a Chef Shane's cookbook. Buy them a Chef Shane's cookbook. They'll be your friend for life. Yeah, that's right. Unbelievable. And hey, wherever you get your podcasts, or at www.coffeeinthepark.ca, no, .com. We're at.com. We're at.com now. We've moved up in the world. No, we've always been.com. Oh, we've al... Yeah, we're a com, not a ca. I know, we're a com, not a ca. so.com, you can check us out there. And thanks for listening, everybody. Appreciate it. This has been great. I'm going to listen to this one. Like, I don't listen to many. Well, I shouldn't have said that. I'm going to listen to this one 10 times, because this is really great. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, everyone. See you next time.