Addiction Medicine Made Easy | Fighting back against addiction
Addiction is killing us. Over 100,000 Americans died of drug overdose in the last year, and over 100,000 Americans died from alcohol use in the last year. We need to include addiction medicine as a part of everyone's practice! We take topics in addiction medicine and break them down into digestible nuggets and clinical pearls that you can use at the bedside. We are trying to create an army of health care providers all over the world who want to fight back against addiction - and we hope you will join us.*This podcast was previously the Addiction in Emergency Medicine and Acute Care podcast*
Addiction Medicine Made Easy | Fighting back against addiction
What Happens in Residential Treatment: Inside The Place Rock Bottom Leads To
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Residential treatment gets talked about like a single thing, but most people have no idea what they are walking into until they arrive. I sit down with Rachel Docekal, CEO of the Hanley Foundation in Florida, to open up the “black box” of residential addiction treatment and partial hospitalization (PHP), from how programs are structured to what patients actually do hour by hour.
We dig into what separates a quality rehab program from one that is all marketing. Rachel explains measurement based care, why repeat assessments like PHQ 9 and GAD 7 style tools matter, and how teams should adjust treatment based on data instead of vibes. We also address a hard topic: predatory rehab practices, including unethical pressure to relapse to meet ASAM criteria so insurance will pay again, and what ethical, patient centered care should look like instead.
Then we get practical. We talk length of stay, why discharge planning must start on day one, and how step down care, sober living, family involvement, and alumni support can make the difference between momentum and relapse. Rachel also walks through a real residential daily schedule including medical and psychiatric care, cohort based groups, nutrition and fitness, and why many programs restrict smartphones to improve engagement and outcomes.
If you want a clearer map for choosing a residential treatment center and building an aftercare plan that holds up in real life, press play. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a rating or review so more people can find the show.
To learn more about Rachel's program: https://hanleyfoundation.org/
To contact Dr. Grover: ammadeeasy@fastmail.com
Hi, I'm Dr. Casey Grover. I spent years practicing emergency medicine before shifting my focus to addiction medicine. This podcast grew out of caring for patients, hearing their stories, and wanting to do better. Here we talk about recovery, medicine, and compassion. This is Addiction Medicine Made Easy. Today's episode is on residential treatment. And this is an interview with Rachel Dosicle, who is the CEO of an addiction treatment program in Florida called Hanley, and they offer various levels of care. And what I wanted to talk about with Rachel is residential treatment. And most of our discussion looks at residential treatment from a high level, like what are best practices, how do systems of care work well together, things like that. But we also dig into actually what the day-to-day schedule looks like for a person in residential treatment for addiction. Now, in the world of addiction, we have various levels of treatment. There's outpatient care, like coming to see me in clinic every two weeks. There's intensive outpatient programs, also known as IOPs, where a person goes for a few hours several days a week, say two hours Monday, Wednesday, Friday. There's partial hospitalization programs, also known as PHPs, where a person goes for multiple hours most days of the week, say five hours a day, Monday through Friday. And then there's residential treatment where you move in and live in at the program. And as you can imagine, the worse a person's addiction is, the more intensive treatment they need. So Rachel's programs with Hanley in Florida sound amazing, and it sounds like they have a ton of resources. And she shares her program's specific approach to residential treatment. But as you can imagine, not all residential treatment programs are the same. I am the medical director of a residential treatment near me that takes mostly patients with Medicaid, and while it's a great program, it doesn't have a lot of the amenities like a full gym that Rachel's program has. Some residential treatments, like Hanley, are very heavy on medical care, while others, like the one that I work at, are social model programs that focused more on behavioral interventions like groups and meetings. Now, Rachel's program also does behavioral interventions like groups and meetings, but again, it's more medically focused. Other programs might be faith-based. So if you are considering going to a residential treatment program or sending a patient of yours or a loved one of yours to a residential treatment program, like Rachel says, take the time to learn about the program, to see how they do things, and see if it would be a good fit for you. Now, a few clarifications before we start. Rachel and I talk about a few assessment tools. PHQ9 is a nine-question assessment of depression, and GAD 7 is a seven-question assessment of anxiety. And finally, Rachel mentions ASAM criteria. ASAM stands for the American Society of Addiction Medicine, and they set specific criteria to assess if someone needs residential treatment. This turned out to be a fantastic episode. I can't wait to share it all with you. Real quick, before we start, please consider leaving me a rating or a review on your podcast app to help more people find this podcast. And with that, let's get started. Okay. Rachel, happy Friday. Happy Friday.
SPEAKER_02How are you?
SPEAKER_00I'm doing very well. And you what state are you in?
SPEAKER_02We are here in Florida. Hanley Foundation is located in West Palm Beach, which most people know Palm Beach. We are right over the intercoastal from Palm Beach.
SPEAKER_00And what do you do?
SPEAKER_02I'm the CEO of Hanley, which has a foundation. We have a treatment center. We are, in fact, the largest continuum focused on eliminating addiction in the United States, starting with the youngest kids all the way through treatment for, I think our oldest patient was 96.
SPEAKER_00Wow. How did you get into this work?
SPEAKER_02Never too late. It's never too late. Lots of family connections. And I ended up having a process disorder in my early 20s. I had an eating disorder and all of those things came together. And in 2010, I started working with Hanley.
SPEAKER_00I will share that I also had an eating disorder. I hope you're doing okay.
SPEAKER_02I am doing great. Thank you. How about you?
SPEAKER_00It's been an interesting journey. I don't know if I'll ever get back to completely normal eating, but it was about 19 to 35 that I really struggled. So I went through medical school and residency with my eating disorder. But yeah, I've with the support of my family and getting into some different types of exercise and eating differently, I'm in a great place right now.
SPEAKER_01I love that. I love that.
SPEAKER_00So we were going to talk about residential treatment today. And here's how I think about it is for many people, residential is a black box. And there's so many terms. I've got to go to rehab, I've got to go to detox. And a lot of times my patients, when they're sitting with me in the office, have no idea what they're going to get themselves into, whether it's good or not what they expected. So can you just give me an overview of what happens in residential treatment for addiction?
Measurement Based Care Explained
SPEAKER_02Of course, of course. First of all, and for your listeners, let me just say a big part of Hanley is our residential treatment center. We sit on 14 acres of botanical gardens in Palm Beach County. But there are different levels of residential treatment. The lowest level is actually called partial hospitalization or PHP. And I always think that is a term that feels scary. Hospitalization, what does that mean? In fact, what that means is that you are living in a residence and then you travel to what is effectively a very intensive or long outpatient treatment. So that's the first one. And then there are different levels of residentials. And when you come to Hanley, your treatment team is inclusive of medical, psychiatric, clinical, as well as holistic elements. And residential would be for individuals who need that higher level of care. So that's a condensed way of saying it.
SPEAKER_00I'm going to try to be funny here. I have to warn people when I try to make jokes because my daughter tells me I'm not very funny. So what actually happens? We'll start with the PHP, the partial hospitalization program. Sure. Walk me through a day like, is it yoga? Is it underwater basket weaving? What's a day actually like when you go to a PHP program? Because a lot of my patients have no idea what to expect. And again, it's this black box. I went to my PHP.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. I understand. I think maybe the way I'll start is there are more than 14,000 treatment centers in the United States. I don't know the exact number, but essentially more than 14,000 that are licensed. And what your listeners who are trying to figure out a treatment journey for themselves or a loved one want to start with would be looking for a center that has what we call measurement-based care. I'm going to talk about cardiac care or cancer care or something. All of that care is measurement-based. And measurement-based care essentially means we are going to measure how you're doing every single step of the way. And we're going to adjust your care based on real data. And so before I talk about what a day looks like, we want to make sure that the day that your listeners are having is a day at a quality center. And measurement-based care is really a huge component of that. And very few of those 14,000 centers actually use measurement-based care. We are really one of the only industries that is healthcare where that is not the standard. So measurement-based care means that you come into treatment and there's a baseline assessment done. At Hanley, it is done by psych, it's done by medical, it's done by clinical. Every single element of that treatment team, the patient also takes part in answering questions and completing a really standardized questionnaire. And you look at things like depression, anxiety, substance use, all of those components. As the person is in treatment, there's ongoing tracking of the same or similar measures. You keep repeating those. You review the results, and then you adjust treatment based on how the patient's doing.
SPEAKER_00So you're talking about doing like a screening, like a PHQ nine for depression, working on the depression as it relates to the addiction, an intervention, a medication, and then redoing that scale, something like that.
How Predatory Rehabs Operate
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. And I love the fact that you talked about the PHQ nine, there's also the GAD-7 for anxiety, the audit, the dust. There are all of these different components that are used in measurement-based care. And it is, it's really critical that the center uses those. And the fact is, if you have a university-based treatment center or one that's affiliated, they're almost always using it. But you really have to do your homework if you're going to somewhere that is not a university-based or university affiliated or medical center-based or medical center affiliated, just to be sure that you're sending your loved one somewhere quality. And that's one of the biggest concerns in our industry today, that people look at a website and it looks like the same website that they saw for this other place, and they're not sure how to make that decision.
SPEAKER_00So this brings me to something I wasn't ready to bring up yet, but now feels like the right time. You're in Florida, and I hear a lot about predatory rehab programs. And I realize that there are predatory programs all over the place, but for whatever reason I've heard about such programs in Florida. Can you talk about some of these more predatory programs?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, of course. So again, for your listeners, Hanley opened its doors in 1986. So we have been around for more than 40 years, approaching 45 years. Originally, we were affiliated with Hazelden. Everybody knows Betty Ford Hazledon. We still work closely with the Hazelden location that is in Florida. So let me just give you that little bit of background. When we started, there were very few places here in Florida. And in the early 2000s, South Florida became what folks called the recovery capital of the world. And unfortunately, some of this was driven by insurer policies. So health insurance policy. And what would happen is at whatever number of days the insurance company would say, okay, we think that that patient no longer meets AM requirements, so we're not going to pay anymore. And the treatment center would ask that patient to leave. And the predatory ones would say, if you want to stay, what you need to do is you need to go out and relapse. And I'm sure your listeners know that term. So the person would go out, they would drink, they would use drugs again, and then they would meet ASAM criteria. And so the insurance company would start to pay again, and the treatment center would bring them back in. This is so incredibly unethical. At Hanley and at most quality treatment centers, first of all, we're a nonprofit, but we do what's called any lens treatments. So we do take insurance when insurance runs out. If the family is not able to afford to continue to pay, our scholarship dollars kick in. And we keep that patient in treatment for, as the name says, any length. So whatever length of treatment that person needs in order to get well, our scholarship dollars kick in and pay for them. And that is is ethical health care.
Ideal Length Of Stay
SPEAKER_00So that brings up another question I had. In an ideal world, what is the optimal time in a residential treatment program?
SPEAKER_02Oh, golly. Let me just say again for your listeners, it's very daunting to be having this discussion with an addictionologist because you are you are an expert in treatment. And I should be asking you these questions instead of you asking me. That said, Hanley believes that a minimum of 45 days for treatment is what is needed. PHP, which is a lower level of care, starts at a fewer number of days. Here at Hanley, it starts at 30 days. But our residential level of care starts at 45 days. And our older adult programs, we have a program that specifically focuses on the needs of older adults. That program starts at 60 days because many of those patients come in, they're presenting with what looks like dementia or confusion. They can't walk anymore. And many times after 60 days or 90 days, walk out of here and they are completely clear. Their brain has begun its healing process and the family gets their loved one back.
SPEAKER_00I like how you said any length of treatment time because yes, I think addiction has been previously viewed as a very cookie-cutter thing, like you just need to go to meetings or you just need to get on naltrexone. And every single one of my patients is different. I had one gentleman who is two years sober after 18 days in rehab. And I have some that will do 120 days and relapse and then have to do it again. So I love your philosophy. If I may ask, do you know what your average length of stay is in residential?
SPEAKER_02I do. So let me just, for your listeners, let me let them know that we have 10 primary mental health beds. And we also have eight beds that are luxury. So it is, it's a very small program for individuals of high net worth. The primary mental health program, the length of stay is in the 50 days. So it's close to 60. And I'll talk about why that is in a few minutes, because there's a really specific reason. Our gender-specific programs, our average length of stay right now is about 43 days. And that is obviously average of all patients who go through here within the last year. And then interestingly, the average length of stay for our high net worth program is a little bit lower. It is about 35 days. So what we're seeing, at least here in Florida, is an uptick of what is marijuana induced psychoses. And those patients are going after detox, they are going into our mental health program. And it is taking about 60 plus days for those individuals to clear. And then that patient will step down into either the men's program or the women's program on the substance use side for say 14 days, something like that, because they've already been through detox, through treatment, and then they need just a little bit more on the substance use side. But it's pretty, pretty scary what we're seeing. Pretty scary.
SPEAKER_00It's the same here in California.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And it's just, it's getting worse. We added two mental health beds. We had eight, we have 10, and we're getting ready to add another one to 11 because it just keeps happening.
SPEAKER_00So you mentioned the arc of a person's treatment around, let's say, a case with cannabis-induced psychosis. Talk to me about the process of discharge planning, meaning someone comes into your program, they want to do residential. This frustrates me so much. My patients will go into a residential, kind of no discharge planning happens. They get discharged after, say, 60 days, no change in their living circumstances. And then you can imagine it's not hard for them to relapse. So what's the discharge planning like in an ideal setting?
SPEAKER_02Sure. So at Hanley, every single program has at least one case manager. So that's the first thing that your listeners need to know. And that case manager is part of the treatment team from minute one. The other person who is part of the treatment team is what we call the referrant. So it is the professional who got that patient to us in the first place. And we do have some patients that come in, mom and dad found us online, or sister or brother, or spouse found us online and call us directly. But typically there has been a professional who has recognized that this individual has an issue with substances. So we start to coordinate with that professional from day one. Our therapists, our case managers, everybody keeps that person involved in all of the treatment decisions. Why? Because if you're going to send us a patient and then we're going to send that patient back to you, how in the world could that person continue to get well under your care if you weren't part of and knew exactly what happened while they were with us and help make those treatment decisions? So that's the first thing. The second thing is we talked about an average length of stay and residential of about 45 days. It is extremely rare for somebody to be able to go back home with no further supports and not have a relapse event. We know from research that to change a habit or to make a new habit, it takes around 70, 75 days. So think about that. If somebody has been drinking or using drugs for years, typically, how in the world in 45 days are they going to change that behavior and more importantly, learn different coping skills? Because really that's what's at its core. When people are having a great day, they may not need to have a cocktail, but when they've had a hard week, they may want to have that glass of wine. And so, how can they put what they've learned with us into practice so they don't relapse? It's much easier. Easier if that length of stay is say two years long because they've stepped down. And so what we want to do is we want to, when we discharge that patient, we want to make sure that they have a plan in place that they've agreed to, their family has agreed to, and family is such a critical part of this whole process. And then their referring professional has agreed to.
SPEAKER_00I agree 100%. Discharge planning for me starts on day one, right? My patient is going to residential. We go to residential with what's going to happen afterwards. And then for the program where I'm a medical director, I'm really lucky. It's in a rural area. I drive there to see patients two days a month. So it's a women's only program. They go in, and then there's a wonderful women's sober living that most of them land in. And then they just stay with me afterwards. So I have this group of women, they come in, they see me, they see one of my colleagues, they go through residential, they land in sober living, and they've got a place to land with us. Yes. Now, granted, I realize not everyone has that experience. And I think the hardest for me is when the family is part of the problem. Like you have a couple, they're both drinking, husband wants to stop, goes off to residential, comes back, wife keeps drinking. Ooh, those are tough. Yeah. So we talked a little bit at the beginning about what kind of a day-to-day experience is like in treatment. Let's come back to that. Let's imagine somebody has gotten cannabis-induced psychosis. They obviously are going to need to see a psychiatrist, a medical physician. We're going to help their brain recover from the intense stimulation from the who knows what concentration THC product they were using. They come back and let's say they're in men's residential. What is just an overview of what does a day look like?
A Real Day In Residential
SPEAKER_02Sure. The first thing that your listeners need to understand is that insurance and licensing bodies really are a big part of talking about the number of hours of treatment. And we put up a daily schedule every single day. But a day here at Hanleek could be waking at a certain time. And it's pretty early. It's around 7, 7:30. I don't have the schedule in front of me. So take what I'm saying with just a little bit of a grain of salt. Folks go to breakfast. That's part of residential treatment, that folks are not making their own meals. When you go to PHP or partial hospitalization, you are making your own meals. Then they will come back from breakfast, and typically they will have those one-on-ones with members of their treatment team. So that could be their primary counselor. They could see our medical team. And every single patient sees our medical team once a week. They could see psychiatry. Maybe they will see a member of our spiritual team or a member of our alumni team. And we really keep in very close contact with our alumni because that is part of that support post-treatment. After one of those one-on-ones, then they will typically go to group and they'll go to group with their cohort. So here at Hanley, we really believe in cohort-specific treatments. We have men's programming, we have women's programming, we have older adult programming. And then we have what we call tracks. So we have a track, for example, for what we call patriots, which are veterans and first responders. We have a program that is specifically for perinatal women, many of whom have their babies with them in treatment. When you're in group, you are in group with people who have similar challenges and similar issues to what you have. And group is it is uh it's rigorous. Let me say that. It's a couple hours long. At that point, there is a short amount of free time, and then people go to the dining hall for lunch. And then the afternoon is again spent in group. We also have uh a physical component and a nutrition component. So we have a gymnasium here on campus with a trainer. If you're part of the men's program, for example, you may be playing basketball, you may be working out on the TRX and the weight machines. On the other hand, if you're in the older adult program, you may be seeing our physical therapist and learning how to walk again. And then there is a spiritual component. So it is our 12-step component. And, you know, we we really do have 12-step immersion here. We believe at Hanley that in order to get and stay sober, people need to get in touch with their higher power and have a spiritual breakthrough. And then there's dinner and free time. One thing we don't do here is we don't have phones, smartphones as part of treatment. And I can tell you that we probably have a third of our patients who first time around don't come to treatment here because they want to go somewhere that will allow them to have their phones. Research shows that people's retention and treatment, their outcomes, all of those different components are much, much better. And the treatment episode is much richer without smartphones, especially somebody who has a process addiction of gambling or sexual dysfunction or one of those things. And what you didn't hear me say was free time to play on your phone because it doesn't exist.
PHP Versus Residential Housing
SPEAKER_00My first job before I was an addiction doctor is I was an emergency department doctor. And in the emergency department, you have to know a little bit of everything. So in my brain, I like to keep things simple. So let me run two simplification understanding ways to think about things and make sure I'm right. So the first is that partial hospitalization program and PHP and residential are fairly similar in their day-to-day, except the PHP folks wake up at home and go to bed at home. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_02Essentially, yes. However, what we know is that sometimes the family is a problem. You said that earlier. And we know that person needs to have housing somewhere else. And I will share that Hanley has somewhere in Palm Beach County, we don't publish the address, a men's house, and we have a separate women's house. And typically people are only there for a month. And we make sure that they get that really rich family programming during that first month. So in month two, they're able to go and house at home, live at home.
SPEAKER_00Interesting. So you've got the I definitely need residential. There's the my family supportive, and I'm gonna do PHP from home, but you have a middle group whereas I'm gonna go to PHP, but I need to get away from my family. So you put them in housing away from family.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Why there's also a middle group, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna with you working with young women, I know this is a term that that you're familiar with, but for your listeners, there is a group of young people somewhere between 18 and let's call them 35 that we refer to in the industry as failure to launch. And those folks need uh life skills in addition to rehabilitation. And so sometimes we use PHP with individuals with a substance use disorder who are also failure to launch. Why? Because in PHP, you make your own bed, you clean your own room, you make your own food, you are taught how to go to the grocery store and choose healthy foods, you're taught how to budget all of those different components. And in residential, all of that is taken care of for you. We have environmental care specialists who make sure everybody's rooms are beautiful all the time. And there are young people whose parents never taught them those things, and they're a fit for PHP as well.
SPEAKER_00I I actually hadn't heard that term. It makes perfect sense. The way I teach it is the age at which regular substance use starts is the age at which social and emotional learning stops. Yeah. And so we get these like 30-year-old, 14-year-olds that, and literally, like some of my patients, we spend my visits talking about what is compound interest.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes. How do you write a check? Not that most people are writing checks. How do you make sure your bank account doesn't go negative the day before paid day? All of those things. In fact, Hanley is just about to open a job training program that when these young people are finished with treatment, they can get some job training and some additional life skills. And then we'll help them figure out what they'd like to do with their lives.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So my second simplification I wanted to run by you, and this is like a really big oversimplification. But let's say a patient is coming in for a new visit with me and they don't know much about treating addiction. I remind them we have three basic treatments, right? We have medications, we have groups, and we have some sort of therapy. And the way I describe it to them is let's say you want to start some therapy and you want to do a group and you want to see me. You might see me once every two weeks, the therapist once a week, maybe to go one or two groups a week. That work is stretched out over a long period of time. And one of the reasons why residential works is you get all of it in an intense fashion in large quantities in a short period of time to get the most work done possible. Does that ring true with what you do?
Life Skills For Failure To Launch
SPEAKER_02Uh it does. It does. I uh and uh but I but I I think the the one clarification that I would make is what you're talking about with the three prongs rarely happens. And uh you know what will happen is somebody will go see a therapist only. They won't be working with an addictionologist and they won't join a group. So what's the big deal about joining a group? First of all, you understand what everybody else's challenges are, but that group holds itself and each other accountable. And one of the things we know about addiction, especially with dealing with families, is families start to get used to and as a consequence of that start to enable the addiction a lot of times. And so in addition to the real work that's being done in a group, the dynamic is holding each other accountable. And so the three legs of that stool that you're talking about would be much more effective outside of residential treatment if people, in fact, got all three legs. They rarely do. And that that is one of the benefits of residential that all of those components are here.
SPEAKER_00It's so funny that you mentioned the stool, because that's what I tell patients is you have a three-legged stool, medications, groups, and therapy. And if you lose a leg, your stool's less stable. And some people come in and they're like, I don't need anything, I'm gonna do it on my own. And obviously, those are tough cases. I wanted to ask, it sounds like your your program with Hanley has a lot of resources. And in an ideal world, every program would have that level of resources. Have you had any experience with programs with less resources? I'll give you an example. The program I work with is predominantly for people with Medicaid, and it's a social model only program. So we don't have a physician on site. I see people remotely. They do work with us, they see a physician probably once every two weeks, maybe. And then mental health, they have to go out of the program to get. But do you have any experience with programs with less resources?
SPEAKER_02Sure. I think that that what I would say is that all of the resources don't necessarily need to be under the same roof the way they are at Hanley for them to be effective. There are a number of tenants that we believe in. And as long as those tenants are there, I think that you can really get quality treatment anywhere. We talked about measurement-based care. A couple of the other ones that are really non-negotiable for us are trauma-informed treatment. And for your listeners, trauma-informed treatment essentially means that in helping, we are not going to re-traumatize. So everything is really focused on healing and healing through a positive lens versus a negative lens. I'm trying to break it down. It is very complicated. And at Hanley, we have 260 employees from the CEO to our environmental care specialists. Every single person is trained in our trauma-informed culture because we're all healers and part of the healing process. Um, the next one is that the treatment needs to be spiritually focused. And that doesn't mean that it's denominational. That doesn't mean that you have to believe in one God or another. It just means that you understand that there is a power higher than yourself. And we know that, you know, that however somebody defines that, that really helps. And a spiritual breakthrough happens so often in treatment. Cohort-specific treatment, we talked about that earlier. Men and women, they should not be housed together. They just shouldn't be. And, you know, you're talking about your program, which is women only. Um, you know, uh there are very obvious reasons for that, and I'll leave it there.
SPEAKER_00I could not agree with you more on that one. Yes, totally agree.
What Quality Care Must Include
SPEAKER_02Uh, expert medical care. It doesn't have to be on site to have an addictionologist who goes twice a month and sees people remotely is just fine. We know that virtual treatment works and that's okay. But as long as the expert medical care is brought in and is a component of it, great. Counseling, when that's the piece that really is part of most programs. And then there needs to be involvement by the family, involvement by the professional that got the person into treatment. And that's really that aftercare piece we talked about. And then lastly, and we talk about it as alumni support and engagement, but that could also mean just going into the rooms of AA, having a sponsor, really having a peer group, a sober peer group that is going to provide that support to the individual.
SPEAKER_00Well, I have to say, Rachel, I know you mentioned you were a little intimidated talking to the addictionologist. You know your stuff. You were spot on with all of that.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Thank you. And it is intimidating talking to the addictionologist.
What Hanley Builds Next
SPEAKER_00So as we get to the end of our time here, what's next for you? What's next for Hanley? What are you working on?
SPEAKER_02Oh, so Hanley is working on a couple of really cool programs. So the first is our Casa Floras program, which is our perinatal women's program. Women can come here pregnant or postnatal, and they can come here with their babies. And doulas are part of the program. We teach parenting. It's it is really exciting and exciting time at Hanley. And then the other program is our job training program that I talked about it. We we call it our recovery model. And what we know is that if treatment is 45 days, recovery is the rest of your life. And that's where we need to put the majority of our effort. And what this does is it helps people get the life skills, the make sure that they have the supports they need, envision what those next steps are going to be. We collaborate with a local foundation here called the Mark Garwood Foundation that provides scholarships for people to pursue higher education. And we just really want to help people get their joy back, get their lives back, and get their families back. Any last thoughts? I just want to say thank you. It is really an honor for me to be able to join your podcast. So thank you. I'm grateful.
SPEAKER_00I appreciate you taking the time to chat with me, and I learned a ton, and thank you so much. Thanks so much.
SPEAKER_01All right. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for listening to Addiction Medicine Made Easy. If you found this helpful, please leave a review. It really helps others find the show. And a huge thank you to Central Coast Overdose Prevention for supporting this podcast. And always remember treating addiction saves lives.