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Main Street Reimagined Podcast
This is a podcast for dreamers, creators, developers, and entrepreneurs to learn, share, and be inspired to change your community through small business.
Main Street Reimagined Podcast
Episode 10: Breathing New Life into Small Towns with Jason Duff
What if you could transform a vacant downtown into a lovable downtown? Listen in on an insightful conversation with Luke’s longtime friend and fellow entrepreneur Jason Duff to share his journey that started back around the time they became college buddies at Ohio Northern University. They reminisce about realizing they didn’t fit a traditional mold, then get real about the hustle required to turn dreams into reality.
They explore Jason's ambitious mission to breathe new life into his hometown of Bellefontaine, Ohio, then take that model to other towns around Ohio, and beyond. Raised in a family of small business owners, Jason returned home after college with a vision to rejuvenate Bellefontaine’s downtown area, transforming vacant buildings into bustling community spaces. They discuss the vital role of downtown amenities in attracting talent and new industries, and the innovative approaches that have turned Bellefontaine into a model of economic revitalization.
The conversation takes a turn towards support networks and resilience, emphasizing the importance of mentors and real-life experiences in navigating the entrepreneurial rollercoaster. From the importance of hands-on experience to the value of learning from both successes and failures, this episode is packed with inspirational stories and practical advice for aspiring entrepreneurs. Don't miss out—tune in and be inspired by the power of vision and community in driving lasting change.
Guest Links:
Website: smallnationstrong.com
Facebook: facebook.com/smallnationstrong
Instagram: instagram.com/smallnationstrong
Main Street Reimagined:
Facebook: facebook.com/MainStreetReimagined
The Main Street Reimagined Podcast, Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqfkmF5bRH0od1d3iiYKs3oEn_gvMYk7N
Henry Development Group:
Facebook: facebook.com/henrydevelopmentgroup
Website: www.henrydevelopmentgroup.com
Developing News Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/33110524eb5c/developing-news
Luke Henry:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/luhenry
Facebook: facebook.com/luke.henry.148
#SmallNation #RealEstateDevelopment #CommunityDevelopment #DowntownRevitalization #BellefontaineOhio #Entrepreneurship #SmallBusinessSuccess #RevitalizingCommunities #UrbanRenewal #BuildingTheFuture #InspiringEntrepreneurs #SmallTownSuccess #OhioBusiness #PodcastEpisode #BusinessGrowth #InnovationInRealEstate #LessonsInLeadership #VisionaryLeadership #USRevitalization #EntrepreneurialJourney
I knew a little bit about construction growing up, and the thing about being young is that you have a lot of courage and you have a lot of bold ideas. I mean, your lenses change and you get more perspective as you get older. But the buildings could be bought literally for a dollar because the economy was so bad locally, and so the acquisition price of a downtown building was actually really low, and so the acquisition price of a downtown building was actually really low. What I didn't know at the time is that the process of how hard it would be to actually bring a building up to code this is the Main Street Reimagined podcast, a show for people ready to turn visions into realities and ideas into businesses.
Speaker 2:Ideas into businesses. Hey, I'm Luke Henry and each week I lead conversations with Main Street Dreamers who took the leap to launch a business, renovate a building or start a movement, their ideas, their mindsets and their inspirations, as well as some of the highs and lows along the way. This is a place for dreamers, creators, developers and entrepreneurs to learn, share and be inspired to change your community through small business. Enjoy the show. Hey, friends Luke Henry here have joined us once again to talk some fun shop here about business, about entrepreneurship, about development. And today I have one of my very favorite entrepreneur, visionary, contrarian, change agent, dreamer. Most importantly, he's a doer and a great friend Jason Duff.
Speaker 1:Thanks, luke. It's great to be on the show. I think we were joking earlier, before the segment, that we were kind of becoming the old guys in the room. Hey, hey, hey. So yeah, do you want to share how we actually have a connection prior to all this business stuff?
Speaker 2:actually we have a connection prior to all this business stuff. Yeah, we sure do so. Um we we go back now it makes me feel old to say that we go back now almost 25 years, yeah, uh, before either of us were really much into real estate both of us doing different things. Yeah, had an interest in some some business stuff, but we were in some singing groups at Ohio Northern University and we spent a lot of time together with those groups.
Speaker 1:Traveling on a tour bus to different places around the country and you develop friendships and that's the cool thing about finding whether it's a college experience or maybe friends in high school or your first job. Like you build, you know relationships that that can last a lifetime. And yeah, just just excited to be in your studio today, luke. Uh, you've always been. You know, we we kind of borrow a lot of ideas from each other, we do. We call that masterminding right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, we do, we do, you know, and thinking back again, we're talking early two thousands vintage here and I think that both of us, probably in growing up, we're starting see other people like that. You're kind of like hey, I, I feel normal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're a little weird, but I kind of like my weird compliments. You're weird and so maybe we should share some ideas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so exactly. Uh, that's that's what happened. And Jason and I connected and we talked a lot of business stuff and I was in the early days of landscaping and I'd recently bought my first rental property, at 19 years old, and I remember very distinctly Jason said why don't we grab dinner one night? And I'm working on some projects? I'll kind of show you a little bit and we spent some time together. We were just talking earlier. We went to the House of Szechuan, that's right, you know entrepreneurial mindset, and you were something with like pamphlets, like you put them in flyers or in foyers and like you were charging people for that and you have to hustle right, like to gain credibility, to get access to capital.
Speaker 1:And I think, for entrepreneurs, when you first meet them, like, you're right, you're wired differently, but money is a form of energy. So if you're passionate about wanting to change something in your town or you want to give back to a charity that's important to you, you've got to find a way to make money. And so I think it's finding that thing that you like to hustle, that doesn't feel like work that you actually think people will pay you for. And so you mentioned a few of those early businesses. For me, I grew up to two parents that were small business owners. So my dad and grandfather and even grandparents were business owners.
Speaker 1:We sold construction materials, so things like lumber and concrete and stone, and my mom had a Hallmark shop and, like in the 80s and 90s for those of you that are listening, like those were the curio cabinet collectible years. Yes, so like I bet you're, you're, you're, you know many of the parents and grandparents that are listening here remember cherished teddies and precious moments. And then there were this, this creation called Beanie Babies, beanie Babies. And then there was this creation called Beanie Babies, beanie Babies.
Speaker 1:Like I was like working in my mom's store and she would pay me in Beanie Babies and let me tell you that was a good form of currency, because you could throw them in the back of my you know 1987 Ford Explorer and like head down to Trader's World in Cincinnati and you could deal them out the back of your truck and so like, like, whatever it is. And so those of you listening, like you're probably thinking of the thing of your generation that you actually, if it was mowing yards or like selling stickers or making lemonade, like everyone's got to find that little bit of spark of you actually creating a product and selling it and someone exchanging money for you, like there's magic that happens with that. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean I learned a lot from you and being friends even in college, you know you coming through having those experiences growing up, I mean I was really new to the entrepreneurial thing small business, kind of just figuring it out and I remember that that one particular time when we had that kind of brainstorming session over dinner and I remember you had just stolen I guess we'll say stolen a bunch of bricks from a torn down building.
Speaker 2:You said some people are probably going to want these bricks and we can put a commemorative plaque on them and we can sell them and it's just like always having those ideas. But I remember you saying you don't need money to make money, you need creativity. People pay you for good ideas.
Speaker 1:You could have. You know, in every small town there are similar businesses and business types. But if you're the person that has a good idea, and you know, I'll share this, because one of my businesses happens to be that we help small businesses peppered all throughout the state and all around the country. But when we work with a client, we don't say to them hey, we have billboards based on these highways and this is the traffic count. We go to that client and we say, hey, we recognize something special about your business. We have a good idea on how you should market that, and then that then distinguishes you from any other businesses out there, because most people don't do the hard work to take the time to think about it or to be creative about it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean I learned that, I remember that distinctly from that conversation. So fast forward, 20 some years later, you know, we kind of talking a little bit about our story and in such, learned a little bit about your story. But so now you are the founder and CEO of Small Nation, headquartered in Bellefountain, ohio, and tell us, you know, for those that don't know Jason, both those people that that might be listening, that don't know Jason, most people do but what is small nation? What do you do?
Speaker 1:And well, I'll start to tell the story of the town first, because I think small towns and small businesses are kind of a big deal, and it happened to be that, you know, my community, where I grew up, was 60 miles northwest of Columbus. Our county is called Logan County. The county seat of Logan County is Bell Fountain. Bell Fountain saw its heyday from about 1890 to 1930 when it was the center for the Cincinnati Cleveland Railroad, and so there was lots of industry and investment and there's all this beautiful historic building stock that was in the town.
Speaker 1:The problem is is that as industry changed um, towns like bell fountain didn't keep up and uh there. That it's not just a bell fountain problem, it's not just an ohio problem, it's a midwest problem, and so you know, as, as you know, people move to the East coast and the West coast and that's where new, like you know, independent pharmacies, banks, insurance offices, and then there was all the shopping. Growing up the mall was a really special treat. You went to JCPenney's that lined the streets of your downtown, not the mall that line the streets of your downtown, not the mall.
Speaker 1:And so what changed is that in Bell Fountain, the time that I went off and left and went to college and met you, luke, the big box pharmacies came into town and purchased the independents, the retail shops and department stores that were there, including my mom's Hallmark shop closed and about 80% of the downtown went vacant and empty. Hallmark shop closed and about 80 of the downtown went vacant and empty. So, coming, uh, you know, graduating college, uh, not quite sure what I wanted to do. Next, I saw these empty buildings. I heard people, you know, really lamenting. It's like why, why can't we fix this? Like what? Why we? We missed the time when the town was a thriving place, where there was activity and shops and restaurants and all those kind of things.
Speaker 1:And so I really asked myself, like I knew a little bit about construction, like growing up, and the thing about being young is that you have a lot of courage and you have a lot of bold ideas. I mean, your lenses change and you get more perspective as you get older. Your lenses change and you get more perspective as you get older, but the buildings could be bought literally for a dollar because the economy was so bad locally and so the acquisition price of a downtown building was actually really low. What I didn't know at the time is that the process of how hard it would be to actually bring a building up to code and you just can't go in and you know, do your own construction work or hire your friends to do it Like there are codes and rules and zoning and all that stuff, but like when you're young, a lot of that stuff doesn't matter because you get a pass. Like people will be forgiving if you're just honest and transparent, like I'm just trying to learn.
Speaker 1:But uh, this kind of came about to say we, we, I started buying real estate, got my real estate license.
Speaker 1:I was a terrible realtor. You know 2007 2008 is when the economic crisis really kind of went into motion, so I I wasn't selling much real estate, but I fell in love with the, the potential and the story and the possibilities of being able to take back a small town. Yeah, and that's when this idea of like there are actually small towns and small businesses peppered all around the state and all around the country and, truthfully, when you put all of them together, they're a very big thing. They're a big thing with the economic power that they have. They're a big thing of where population around the country resides, and there's lots of incredible stories of very, very small businesses that were nimble and quick and inventive and creative, that built something that became very big and significant to make a positive impact. So we created and I say we, like I and some friends that were from other small towns built a for-profit company called Small Nation that invests in places, spaces and dreams for small towns and entrepreneurs and that started with we had to buy our first building.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you've bought a lot of buildings since that time and done a lot of work, and tell us a little more about what that journey is.
Speaker 1:The the process to to take back an underrated town starts with you have to create a vision, and in part of the vision is actually listening to what people say about the town and the the points, uh, when they were most prideful about it, or, um, you know, I always love to like, find the weird and the unique, and so, like, in in bell fountain, uh, we say for everyone that visits, there's three things that you will always remember when you leave this town. And like, what are those three things? Well, we are the highest. Bell fountain is the highest, it is the shortest and it is the shortest and it is the first. So, geographically and relatively a flat state, bellefontaine is the peak of Ohio, at 1,600 feet elevation Okay, luke's laughing because I mean we have a hill, a hill that happens to be Ohio's largest ski resort, mad River Mountain, and so in the winter months a lot of people come to Bellefontaine to ski and snowboard and we actually have an Olympic snowboarder that is from our town, louis Vito, which it just says you can actually do cool winter things in Bellefontaine. We also have we're the highest, we're the shortest. We also have we're the highest, we're the shortest. So the world's shortest street, mckinley Street 16 feet, you know, after President McKinley. It has a gigantic mural in it with a ruler that shows you that you can stand and get a selfie and experience the world's shortest street in Bellefontaine. And then the other thing that we have is the first. So in 1891, a chemist in our town that was also a pharmacist, his name was George Bartholomew and he mixed sand, marl and clay and really was the pioneer and the inventor of concrete pavement here in America. So we have the first concrete street.
Speaker 1:Now you're probably hearing that and thinking like those are those really things you want to talk about? Well, let me tell you, here's why they are. They're the weird, funky, unique things part of our town. And so when you visit bell fountain, in terms of placemaking, we've been very intentional about those things. And uh, the the other thing is, once you identify your weird, it was establishing that vision and brand for what we desired to be 15, 20 years, even 100 years from now. How can we start to get leaders and people thinking about Because that's what's inspired me is, I think, the leaders 100 years ago that built some of these structures and took some of these bold moves. How can I align our town's thinking around that and took some of these bold moves. How can I align our town's thinking around that? So as the group came together, we decided we want to build a brand and we wanted to become Ohio's most lovable downtown.
Speaker 1:So when you use words like love, that connects to a feeling, and so when you have a feeling, it's something that is an emotional connection that you can tie back to the entertainment that you have. You can tie back to the way that store clerks greet you when you walk into their store. You can highlight the way that you treat people that may be different from who you are, and that kind of mantra. We started really doubling down on it, not only in the branding and the visuals and the website, but really trying to build those points of experience and service is deep down through the organizations and all the tenants and tenant businesses that we've could, and so that process really has been about a 15, 16, 17 year. You know start. Everything began with the vision.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and I mean what you're talking about I'm sure that people listening can resonate with from the standpoint of so many small towns, not just in Ohio but across the United States saw the same exodus of all of their vitality from the downtown over a period of a couple decades, and so many yearn for that again and we are seeing more and more downtowns coming back around and I think that you have done such a fabulous job. And then I know you've taken your show on the road a little bit to also work with other downtowns, because I think that people are seeing that when we lack that community center, we lack that place of connection and the experiences that people have that are tethered to that downtown and the square and the courthouse and just some of those special places, that there's something missing from the town as a whole, and so that storytelling, the placemaking, finding those kind of fun and funky and unique attributes that the community has and doing a good job of highlighting those Again, I mean you've done a great job with that.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Yeah, yesterday on my podcast, the Small Nation podcast, we hosted a former mayor of Tiffin, ohio, aaron Mons, and his main street director, donna Gross, and what he mentioned is that a lot of his work. Today he is now the new economic development director for Seneca County and part of his role is bringing in new factories and industry to Seneca and he said that he recently had a large employer, manufacturer, that he was excited that flew in, that was excited to tour and check out the industrial sites and the amenities that were available in the county. And that particular individual said I don't want to do anything you have on the agenda today besides, I want to drive through and walk your historic downtown. He said, in spending a half an hour walking the streets and seeing how you take care of your flowerpots, what the occupancy is of your downtown, how many coffee shops and restaurants there are, I can make a quick assessment if I'm going to invest here or not. Wow.
Speaker 2:I believe it. I mean I've heard that story before. I mean not quite so directly or poignantly, but I think, if we're honest, a lot of times you know people that are doing these site selections for different types of industry and manufacturing and so forth, healthcare. They want to know about the downtown. Again, it's the center of the community, it's the heartbeat. And because they also realize that if they build something they're going to have to employ people. And if they want to employ people they're going to have to live there. And if they live there there's got to be some amenities and something that's special that draws them there. You know how many of us can go into any town USA and go down their corridor that has all the big box stores, all the chain restaurants and they look exactly the same that's right as every other town. But take me to the downtown and now I see what that place is about.
Speaker 1:Well, you're right, and about it is now, how can we focus on workforce development and workforce retention?
Speaker 1:And so it's a people's game.
Speaker 1:It's not how many shovel ready industrial spaces that you have or the you know the type of yes, you need water lines and sewer lines and all those kind of things, but every small town in the country has those things.
Speaker 1:So now it's like what do you have that's differentiating you, and what we've seen are really important data points for recruiting new development is actually how great your coffee is in your town and how cold your craft beers are. And if you have those two things dialed in, and here's why, if you're looking to get younger people to stay in your town or community, or if they went off to school in a large metropolitan market, they actually are deciding if they're going to move, rent, invest, live in your town if those two things meet their level of criteria. And it's kind of a sobering thing when you talk to a lot of communities they laugh when I say that, but like it is actually the data and the surveying that we do actually shows those two things are very high. The other thing that's coming up a lot is how great is yoga and Pilates in your town?
Speaker 2:And people laugh at that.
Speaker 1:It's like well, we've got a Y and well, I'm thankful that you got a Y and the YMCA is an incredible. There's a lot of great mission and service work here. But also what we found is, particularly in our region, Honda and its suppliers are a major employer and we found that the Y and some of the existing facilities were closing down at 8 or 9 o'clock. Well, there are second and third shift workers in our community and if they don't have a place to work out, that is a big gap. That is a big gap. And so by working with an entrepreneur to put in 24 hour fitness and other kinds of amenities that are better catered to our community in the workforce there like that, is helping the community. It's also helping that entrepreneur make money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, those, those amenities are so important and I know that you've seen this firsthand. This is not theory that you're you're regurgitating. This is what you've created in Bellefontaine and what you've worked with other communities to create. So I mean, tell us a little bit more about kind of that picture of the number of buildings you've worked with, how many retail stores, restaurants, how that development has transpired.
Speaker 1:If you remember, we were talking about the town being 80% vacant and our downtown, you know it, has a main thoroughfare which is Main Street. That's got about 14,000 cars a day. The town south of us would be West Liberty and Urbana. The town north of us would be Kenton and we happen to be on US 33, which is a corridor to Columbus and if you know anything about the Columbus market in the last 10, 15 years, like, columbus is a massively growing city because of places like Ohio State University and the pipeline of students that go there and then just really great major employers. But what we've seen is out of COVID, like now that people can really work from anywhere, they're starting to look a lot of those suburban communities that are surrounding Columbus, ohio.
Speaker 1:So it happened to be, you know, we, from a timing standpoint, started 15 years ago buying the buildings but then working through and making lots of mistakes of, you know, at one point in time, the state of Ohio. I think I held the record for having the most stop work orders of any developer because I was so excited with the momentum of, like, getting these renovations done, but I didn't know anything about working with architects or engineers or code. I just thought like, oh we, this building is falling down, like I'm going to make it better and keeping making it safer and making it better. Well, there was a lot that you have to do from getting point A to point B.
Speaker 1:Now the good thing is is I got introduced to people that have professional capabilities, that are architects and engineers, so we would start to like vision up what could be possible in the space, and then they would help me understand the the the laws and rules with the Ohio building code of like what we'd have to do related to um fire rating and related to uh, upgrading the electrical panels and the types of use groups and all these kinds of new terms. And that's the thing I think you've got to be prepared for. You've got to be prepared to to surround yourself with people that have that life experience. And in the beginning, what we knew we needed is most people through our surveying said Bill Fountain is a place I don't want to stay live and I don't want to spend my money here because there's no good places to eat, a place I don't want to stay live and I don't want to spend my money here because there's no good places to eat.
Speaker 1:So one of our first projects was is we found a restaurateur that actually was in Marion with us today, touring with Luke, but like she started making pizzas when she was 14 years old, she became a line cook, a pizza chef, an assistant manager and then she brought this pizzeria called 600 downtown to Bellefountain, ohio. We happened to be the landlord and so, you know, constructing that deal it was, it took a lot of courage on both parts because there was not any sit down dining restaurants on main street at that time and this building if you looked at the town, it wasn't necessarily a friendly place Like there were tumbleweeds that were blowing down some of our streets. But by working with the architect, we got a rendering together so we could see what was possible. We got the contractor to give us some construction estimates and then Brittany and her team, you know, opened this place up and I'll be honest with you, it was open for about six months.
Speaker 1:You know, open this place up and I'll be honest with you, it was open for about six months and I got a call from Brittany and Michael and some of the employees there saying we're going to close down lunch when we just had really put everything in. We were hoping it and the problem is they were having a tough time staffing it, they were having a tough time with equipment issues they were having, you know, money was really, really tight and that's the thing when this stuff starts Like it's not. You just hang out the open sign and people start rushing in. Actually, they may do it on the first day and overwhelm you and leave you one-star reviews.
Speaker 1:But, like it is the whole iteration of how do we keep the business healthy, sustainable and the employees healthy and sustainable long-term. But the good news is the kind of pizzas that they were making there on brick ovens, the kind of environment with the historic building and the tin ceilings, and the romance of how people in the town supported and doubled down on 600, it became the catalyst for other restaurateurs to say I want to be a part of that ecosystem there too. And so the base of the pyramid was bring back, buy and invest in historic buildings, recruit, and if you can't recruit another restaurant, sometimes you have to start it yourself. I mean, I know, you know you and your wife have slinged a few ice cream cones over the days. You have done some dishes, you have cleaned some toilets the thing about being a small town developer.
Speaker 1:You will have days that you are on cloud nine and you're feeling like this is really working and I'm making a tremendous impact and I'm going to make really great money.
Speaker 1:And then maybe in a few hours later or the next day, you're like this thing's going to fail, I'm going to lose all my money and why are people sending me these nasty grams when they have no perspective or idea of what, what my employees are doing, or what we're doing or what we're trying to do. It is this very up and down journey, but the the thing that I'm here to say where we're at today seven new downtown restaurants, three event centers, 56 historic buildings, $40 million of capital from three community banks has reshaped this town of 14,000 people that is really, I'm proud to say, probably one of the best historic downtowns in the state of Ohio. And that has not happened overnight. It has happened 15 plus years of really, really hard work. And now all of these other incredible collaborators and entrepreneurs that are bought in to that vision, that are working hard to to make it cooler and better every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean you've done just an incredible job along the way and and I know that we've shared many visits, many phone calls, highs and lows right, absolutely it has been all of the things that you said for us as well starting out this project in Marion Ohio and working towards the vision, and it's great to see other communities where it's working.
Speaker 1:And can I just share. I think it's something to double down on. I think you're really good at this and we try to do the same. It's like you're never going to compete, Like we're never going to compete with Marion Ohio. Right, right, we're an hour plus away from each other, but what we can do is there are certain localized business ideas or certain elements that every historic downtown needs, or certain elements that every historic downtown needs, and so part of the pipeline in a relationship that we do to Mastermind with is like, just like we did today, we're sharing best practices with design. We were talking about air conditioning units and one of the coolest things if you've not been to Marion Ohio, their Airbnbs smell incredible here.
Speaker 2:Why is that they do?
Speaker 1:We learned today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, courtney took us through the whole system that, to be honest, she's done such a great job implementing, but it has just like you go to really fancy hotels and they pipe in the smells throughout.
Speaker 1:I felt like I was in the Marriott today yeah, throughout the nicest Marriott.
Speaker 1:But my point is and and my team member kane was here on the visit today I'm like we walked away. We're not doing that and we should be doing that because when you go in like that, you felt like it's an elevated experience in a small town and I think you know reciprocating, like you, uh, have have popped over and we talked about co-working a few years ago and I said these having high quality shared office spaces, you know places for people to pop in on a monthly membership, but then having dedicated desk and private office space. There is a need for that in Marion, ohio, and today it was pretty darn cool going through connect co. I'm like this is a neat iteration to see that coworking's impacting Marion in a positive way and I think that you know, build cowork in space, which is our brand, you know, had some kind of evolution and if I looked before me it would be what great things that co-hatch and brick house blue have done. We just found to make our different changes and iterations of doing that in our towns and our markets.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean you can see where we've shared ideas and some of those are coming out in each of our towns and it's great.
Speaker 2:I think we're both the better for it, for sure. But you've been such a thought leader with all of that and a visionary, and you're about eight or 10 years ahead of us, and so you're kind of throwing ideas and encouragements over your shoulder from time to time. But I know that you remember those days and again maybe there's somebody out there listening that maybe they've got a vision for a business Maybe it's for their hometown somewhere else in the world. And I think both of us have been in that spot where we have to be a visionary and we have to try to paint the picture for people of what's possible when the vast majority of the people can't see it. What are some things that you've done through your journey to help cast that vision in a way that the general public can see it, latch onto it and really see themselves even as part of it, because they are part of it and the future of their community?
Speaker 1:I like to understand where people go to have fun, or where people go to create memories or, as you think about the state or your region. What is significant and it's always interesting, I think social media and following what people are posting and commenting and saying. Like I love when people say, like where is a great place to take a day trip in Ohio? And I love seeing those comments, and there were a few themes that would always pop up Like people were always looking for a hallmark town, like, and I'm like, what's the definition of a hallmark town? Well, you know, it's like these quintessential small towns that have brick buildings and that have good coffee and a great, great place to eat and shop. And so there's like that again, that emotional connection. And the other thing is that they're looking for things that are fun for kids to do. So, like if you've got family, like you want things, parks and, um, you know places that that kids can do an experience and go back and make a memory. And then, um, food, everything food and beverage is like another thing that was really important. So I think, for for for me, it was like figuring out what we were losing to and where people were going and then asking the question can we create any of those things here and can we actually do it better than those other places? And so, um, you know, I just give a few shout outs Like I uh, yellow Springs is owns its funky, creative, cool side, and so if you're going to to ha ha pizza, you're going to, you know, a park or to see a show that is being put on by Dave Chappelle there are tons of reasons to go to Yellow Springs. And then you're probably going to hit up Young's Jersey Dairy, you're probably going to play putt-putt. And so I guess I was trying to say how do we take some of those elements and bring that to Bellefountain, ohio?
Speaker 1:Because what I knew of our region is we had indian lake. That was 20 minutes away. There's a million visitors a year that go to indian lake, and then we've got in the winter months, the ski resort. But if you go to the ski resort and you want to go out to dinner we did there weren't great options. And then the other thing I realized if it rains at indian lake, like when the weather's nice, you can be out in the water and you can go to the beach and you can ride a bike. But if it rains, how can someone solve the equation for what to do on a rainy day at Indian Lake?
Speaker 1:That's where we started, like penciling out. We want to be known for antiques. We want to be known for good food. We want to be known for great boutique shopping. We want to be known as the cheapest and best place in all of the Columbus Ohio market to get Kybella, restylane and Botox. You think I'm joking? I'm not. It's those kind of things that you find these different segments of people and groups, and then you find entrepreneurs that are passionate about that and you find investors and banks that are willing to double down to support an idea with that. But I would say the iteration of that is try to think of the places that you love to travel, go visit, do, and then how can you bring a little bit of piece of that and innovate that in your town or community?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then creating the vision for it. I mean, I know that we had discussions in the early days about even things as simple as renderings and really trying to literally paint a picture, create a picture for people to see. You know, yes, today you see these rundown buildings, you see a street that's not full of people and it's not full of outdoor dining guests or anything like that. But here's a picture of what it could be and here's how you can start to see yourself in that picture and that's pretty exciting, right, and kind of starting to build up momentum and making people believe and then executing it to where it actually comes to fruition. You know that you actually then have, have built the team that you talked about with, with the entrepreneurs and with the banks, and I mean it's complex to make it happen. The picture is easy, but it starts there right With with the visioning.
Speaker 1:That's definitely uh, the renderings are really powerful. I would also say, maybe even easier, before you spend the money on the renderings is I always love that history repeats itself, and so one of the first things I love to do when I go into a new town or market is I find the local antique mall and I try to find their postcard section. So when I go to the postcard section and I try to find the postcards from 100 years ago, it was the things that that particular town was most prideful about, that they loved, and so I'll look at those photos and sometimes I'll see these really beautiful iconic historic buildings. Maybe it was their town's opera house, or maybe it was the Grand Hotel or the local university. And then it really is, you know, putting pictures of when the streets were full, when they were having parades and events, and reminding people that that's what it used to be like. And truthfully, that engages the, what I would call the, the grandmothers and grandfathers of the town, and then they can storytell and relate things to the younger generation.
Speaker 1:So it's like the renderings help show how we can reinvent and reimagine and recreate what could be possible there, and then we've got the historic photos that give the roots and the DNA of why that town had the hustle, the drive, the inspiration and, truthfully, marion Ohio where we're at right now, it was the political center. I mean this region between Delaware, marion, lima. These communities were running the country. We're running the country and so we've got good bones to work with. But what it comes down to is how different and creative and how do we bring people back to bring the capital and the dollars to, you know, be the next hundred years of of what, what we want marion to be yeah, yeah, and I think once you get the momentum going, people can start to see it and they want to be a part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and again not everyone.
Speaker 1:What I'll say is that, like you'll build is. People always ask me like how do we get everyone on the same team?
Speaker 1:and I say to them you don't yeah, you you create the vision, you find people that have shared values or a passion, like you do, and you make your tent very big. But if you think you're going to get everyone to unanimously agree on a decision or a direction or a plan, that doesn't happen and truthfully, I'm okay with that because I want different tribes of people that are passionate about certain things. Like in our town there's certain people that are really really passionate about the trees or really really passionate about how the flower pots are planted, or what color you, how colors on the, what color you paint your brick, and we need all of that. But it's like when it comes to making a decision, like, we may not agree but I can still respect you and I still can work with you and I want to work with you to make the town better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a great point. To make the town better. Yeah, I think that's a great point. There's, unfortunately, sometimes it is very easy to start catering a lot to the people that probably are never going to get on the train to where we're going. Well, they always say they.
Speaker 1:You know they should be doing this or you should. You know they're really good at telling you, especially online, of, like, what should be happening. And then when you say, oh, what should be happening? And then when you say, oh, the meetings next Tuesday at seven o'clock AM oh, I could never attend a morning meeting, they say, oh, no worries, you know, the next night there's one at four o'clock PM. Oh, I have this going on. Well then, okay, if you can't be a part of the process and invest your time, talent and treasure to do this, ignore on your feedback.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Unfortunately it comes to that point sometimes.
Speaker 1:And I'm okay with it. I think you know this is nice thing about getting older. You just say exactly what's on your mind.
Speaker 2:So I want to transition a little bit. So we like to do the segment every time to talk about the leap, because there's a lot of people out there that have great ideas, they have great vision, they have talents and abilities that the world needs to see, but it takes them jumping off the diving board to make it happen. And I know you've done that and you've helped some others do that. But tell us a little bit about your leap story or or really, I think that you probably have a bunch of them that you can remember very specific moments in time where it came that time where all the planning had been done, the dominoes have been lined up and now it was time to move forward. So what's one of those?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think one thing that you find with entrepreneurs is that their risk profile of what risk they're willing to take and how much they're willing to sacrifice is usually pretty high. And I'd also say youth gives you a little more leeway and permission to make those bold moves without the significant consequences. So what I think we all need are people in our lives that will listen to our dreams and ambitions and encourage us and support us. But then also, we need, uh, could be the same people or other people that will, um, ask the tough questions and say, if you do do this and it doesn't work, like what? What does that mean? And so, um, I've just been very lucky to try to find other people that have that same level of courage and willingness to work really, really hard and make sacrifices, and so, um, it removes that feeling of like you're totally alone, because in most cases, that is probably the thing that this paralyzing and really defeating to the entrepreneurial spirit is, like not having other people around you that are willing to do and be and and make bold decisions. Um, but you know, needing people that can be your nine-one-one plan that when things don't go well because I guarantee you there will be points in time that, um, you will have really devastating things happen to you, and I kind of call these rites of passage in entrepreneurship is, most entrepreneurs, you know, may have a family member or significant other that is not supportive of their business endeavors. And then, sometimes, when you form a business partnership the reality of business partnerships, I think it's you know, after five years, like almost like 70, 80% of those partnerships fail. And so, um, you know you will go through losing a business partner and then, if you've not had someone that has taken or stole from you, that will happen too at some point. And so, um, when those moments happen, I think the thing that we need a lot to take a leap and probably the many examples that I have is that being able to not feel alone with doing something bold.
Speaker 1:One of my first businesses was I love these old historic buildings went to the bank to get a loan. The banker was like literally almost laughed at the meeting, saying like there is no way you can make money selling pizzas in a building that you can buy for a dollar, but you're gonna need several hundred thousand dollars of capital. And you know this no one's ever put a downtown restaurant in in the last 80 years, like well. Then it became like okay, I was angry and frustrated, like when someone like I felt almost I used the word disrespected. But the truth about it is it forced me out of my comfort zone. To then ask the question okay, banker, if you're not going to give me money on this, what would you loan me money on? And what came out of that conversation was a whole new business idea about like well, what about if you're interested in commercial real estate? What about something like self storage? What about if you're interested in commercial real estate? What about something like self-storage? And my immediate gut reaction was you mean those little boring garages on the side of the road? That is not the aspiration of restoring historic architecture and building this really cool restaurant. But I'm glad he pushed me there because he would lend me money on that. And I build a self-storage facility because he would lend me money on that. And I build a self-storage facility.
Speaker 1:And then the whole anxiety of when you build and open up a new business. Am I going to have a customer Like, is the phone going to ring at that time? And like you hang out your open sign and I wasn't sure if people would rent the units. I wasn't sure if people, even after they rented them, were they going to continue paying me. But you're staring at like utility bills and you're staring at a mortgage payment and all these kinds of things.
Speaker 1:But I would say that I found other people that had life experience or had knowledge, that were there to be my 911 call when I was freaking out. I could at least hear their advice, their experience. For a lot of people, sometimes that's an attorney, sometimes it could be an accountant, sometimes it could be a family friend or what we call a mentor, and I was very lucky to have a few of those people in my life. And what I try to do now is that, as people are dreaming and thinking about their business ideas, I try to get them to connect it to other people that are living in their dream already, meaning that you want to own a restaurant. What are you doing? Friday at 4 o'clock pm and this is always my funny thing when I talk to people at restaurants, they're like, yeah, I'm going to hire a manager, I'm going to maybe show up on Fridays, I'll just sit at the bar and just make sure things are going smooth and I'll probably have like quarterly meetings with my management team or whatever I'm like hey what are?
Speaker 1:you doing Friday at four, because you're going to come and work a shift in your dream and when they get there and they realize the highs, the lows, some nights it runs like a symphony, other nights it runs like a shit show. Yeah, but there's some personalities and types that thrive on the adrenaline of running the ship and executing and getting more of those symphony nights and less of the nights where everything falls apart. And so we've just been very lucky, I should say I have been very lucky at understanding the brain types and the people that thrive on conquering those journeys. But then I come and provide them all of this support, support with their marketing, support with I literally am the 911 plan for probably 20 entrepreneurs in my network where I can make pizzas, I can fry wings.
Speaker 1:I know Square, I know Shopify, I've worked in all those point of sale systems.
Speaker 1:You incorporate this whole body of knowledge that when I come in you can't pull wool over my eyes because I've been in the trenches and even today, at 40, 43 years old, I am not afraid to do any of those jobs.
Speaker 1:So if you want to, you know, say you're going to quit on the spot. That's okay because I will do your job, but I think that's part of it, that you've got to help people have the courage and the grit to be able to do those things. So, yeah, I mean, every day, almost every day is a leap, is a leap Like right now I am trying to get my hands around AI and I used to feel and that's my 20s, my 30s, I knew I was on my technology game, and now I'm surrounding myself with the 20-year-olds and younger because I want to understand how we can implement these tools to make our businesses more competitive, better and keep us sustainable for long term. So, like it is always taking a leap out of your comfort zone to do something that you maybe would never explore, but you've got to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, as you're talking, it reminds me of a saying. That that I often repeat is everyone needs a teacher, a student and a friend. And you know I see that thread woven through your story. You know where you had some of those mentors that helped you take the leap. You had peers in other in town or in other places that you were able to lean on through those tough, tough times of business. And now you've got some, some people that are learning from you. I love the hands-on experience model and I think that this is just you.
Speaker 2:That's a tough love teaching, but really you know if, if someone's looking to be an entrepreneur and they haven't been, you know if they haven't grown up in a family that way, or they haven't been in entrepreneurial business before, they need to know what they're getting themselves into, because it's a lot better to learn some of those lessons before they get into it than after.
Speaker 1:I'd also say it's okay to fail and what it means by that.
Speaker 1:And maybe you know I always like to say that mistakes are accelerated learning and sometimes we just make a lot of mistakes.
Speaker 1:But, like, the first iterations of a number of our businesses or projects were the training and proving ground for how we became better later on, later on.
Speaker 1:And so for a lot of entrepreneurs, that's why we try to create spaces within our downtown for them to try out something or pop up temporarily to see if there's proof of concept with their idea, because oftentimes if they start and they pop up with this particular cookie or this particular thing that they make and if they get traction, then they can double down on that. If they don't get traction, they didn't sign this crazy big lease that they're. And if they get traction, then they can double down on that. If they don't get traction, they didn't sign this crazy big lease that they're going to lose their home. And so I think that you want to keep testing, trying, listening, and I love the kind of one-page business plan where you really even sell your idea before you even make it like to see if there's a critical mass of of customers that want to support you with your candle making or your whatever service or business that you want to provide.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I love that. We did a earlier. I did a short solo episode on people If they were interested in having a business, some of those same things. Look for pop-up opportunities, look for a minimum viable solution that you can go out and see if people will trade money for or not. You know, some, a lot of people are going to tell you that they like your idea. They'll be polite and say, yeah, yeah, I think there's a need that could go. But really when you get out there and and see if people are willing to pay for it, that is a whole different story. So I mean, I see you talking from so much experience, having launched a lot of businesses, taken a lot of leaps yourself with great partners and have seen a lot of things To take off and not last.
Speaker 1:And you know there's been some disappointments along the way too yeah, and and honestly, some of my favorite um podcast episodes that we've recorded on the small nation podcast. And thank you for being a guest, luke on our show but, like the um, I remember the interview with matt brown and, uh, probably that particular segment has gotten the most views and listens that we've ever done, it's powerful.
Speaker 1:He talked about. We created a sports bar together and we were business partners and we bought an old Ponderosa for those of you that remember that brand and there wasn't a great sports bar in all of Logan County and so we thought this thing had to be a home run. And so we thought this thing had to be a home run and kind of going through that journey, you learn that proteins and the kind of things that we were selling are really expensive and the size of the operation, the amount of labor and demand on the expense side of the stress got really bad. Matt opens up and talks about the show. Mad Men became popular and we would drink some cocktails and those cocktails started increasing more to so much in his particular case and it wasn't good on me either, but it cost him his marriage and it really ended up costing us our business partnership too. Um, but like today, we, we I love him and I admire him because he has turned that business and the life around and now we've got lenses and experiences that we went through that we can help other entrepreneurs avoid those same pitfalls and mistakes. But yeah, you have to. You celebrate the highs, but then you also you will have some failures, you will have some losses. You will. You will cry Like I'm a grown man, but like I care so much and I put so much on the line.
Speaker 1:There have been moments, whether it's a failed zoning initiative, or there'll be moments where, like an employee leaves you, or you, um, you know, you, you, you have a customer that just that you care about that really rips you to shreds. And they don't, they can't, understand the full story, but they have their narrative. Or or someone that you, you deeply respect, thinks you're the villain. Like yeah, it is just there. There's no way to equate it besides, like this is just the real raw approach of entrepreneurship. And so I do think, like you said, it's giving people the context, but it's being there to build them up and we do have to fuel. There's so many. I call them arrows and daggers.
Speaker 1:Like I spend a lot of my time just literally being around other entrepreneurs and we call it entrepreneur therapy. We're like we can just talk and say I bet you this has never happened to you. Or let me tell you that's your story, let me one up this and let me say what happened to me, but at the end of the day, we're doing it for the right reasons. The impact is happening. It's impacting families, like I mean. I think to what the sacrifice my parents and grandparents had in my chance to work with them. That's gotta be a point of pride for you of your kids being involved in this movement too. Now is it great all the time? No, no. But like you have to show them and teach them how they respond when someone says like oh, your dad owns half the town. Or like you know what? Why? You know, why are you working in the business when I'm out here having fun?
Speaker 2:Like or whatever those things may be in this environment, and all the good things that they learned, but also some of the difficulties of balancing multiple businesses and trying to be able to turn off work and to not let them consume our lives. And so, yeah, you definitely are speaking to that. So I mean, we've talked about some of the challenges, some of the hardships, some of the things that you've been able to accomplish as we kind of round the corner here. I hardships, some of the things that you've been able to accomplish as we kind of round the corner here. I mean, what's something that you're most proud of, jason?
Speaker 1:I work with incredible people. I mean, just today I got to bring a few of them along but, like, we have 17 team members at Small Nation. Half of us are entrepreneurs, meaning we like to create and start businesses. The other half are what we define as entrepreneurs people that have the entrepreneurship mindset but like to go home at four or five o'clock and turn it all off. Um, I don't know what that's like, cause that's not my life, but I know I need people like that. But, um, I think the thing that I'm probably most excited and proud of is, uh, our town is now used as the model.
Speaker 1:You know, if you go around the state and you ask about small nation, there's probably very few people that are mayors or economic development professionals that have not heard the Bell Fountain story. My next kind of goal with them is actually, have you actually been there and taken the and and taken the tour or, uh, shopped in the shops or eaten in the restaurants? Because it's not just what we say, it's what you experience. And so, if we can actually deliver on what we set out was the brand promise and then accomplished in the messaging, accomplished in the experience, then we're we're we're designing something that's sustainable and significant, and so that's the kind of thing that I'm probably really proud of. And now it's like what can we do to make it cooler?
Speaker 1:And I think the iterations that I've learned from you here in Marion is what we can be doing to be known as a destination for events, and events. Those marriages, those weddings, those funerals, those life events where those experiences and memories are created, tie into supporting the florist, the coffee shops, the hair salons and so like. It's figuring out within your town where you're at in that iteration and that DNA. But then it's also looking at other towns to say where are our gaps and how can we be filling those gaps and learning from people like Luke Henry and if you have not visited Marion particularly I know we talked about the Airbnbs and how great they smell Please come here and stay, that's right but like Bucci's today, the restaurant we went through the Italian food and the experience and the environment, and then from the brickyard with the this really aspirate aspiring event center, and what's the name of the other event Urban?
Speaker 2:501. Urban 501.
Speaker 1:Like listen, guys, come to Marion, take the tour. And then he, he mentioned Lindsay. Lindsay is actually, if you wanted the secret, it is not Luke. That is like rebuilding this town as his wife Lindsay. It is not Luke that is like rebuilding this town as his wife Lindsay, but Lulu's the toy shop here. We walked out with these glow footballs today, love those Yep.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing You've got to come, and that that's how you're going to learn. You're going to learn by walking the streets, and then you'll see all the ideas that Lucas stolen from me and implemented and made better.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that.
Speaker 1:Just be honest.
Speaker 2:We are. We have a lot that we've shared.
Speaker 1:I'm sending you an invoice. That's fair.
Speaker 2:That's fair. I've returned a few favors.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:I still owe you some more.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You spoke to your team. They are fantastic. I mean, I've met a lot of your team members. They're great. We're building an awesome team here as well, and they make us look good, let's admit, you know. I mean, we've surrounded ourselves with great people and that's the name of the game, you know, whether it's entrepreneurship, development, community development, you know, whatever it's the people that make it happen, and we're really fortunate to have that. So I know that we could talk for like all day, all night. So many war stories to share, so many successes to share things that we're working on and working towards and aspire for our community and others that we want to help for the people of our communities, the businesses. So, anyway, but I know we can't talk all all day, but uh, so I want to make sure that, uh, if folks do have a desire to, to make connection with you, how can they do that, Jason?
Speaker 1:Yeah, check out our website at small nationcom. We also have a tab there called success that we've broken down a lot of the projects that we discussed into free case studies that you can just look at how buildings, before and after pictures, how much money went into certain projects, whether your town wants to recruit or develop a bakery, especially, retail shops, lawns, fitness facilities. Really we share a lot of these resources to help other towns and communities. And then, yeah, check out the podcast. We are now up to 87 episodes. It's been about a year and a half journey and I've really practiced and grown like becoming a better interviewer You're a really good interviewer, by the way, luke, but I have thoroughly enjoyed. Like I thought I knew people, but when I actually interviewed them I learned so many new and cool things.
Speaker 1:So we share that in all the places that you listen to podcasts and also on YouTube. But yeah, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:I can't say enough good about the Small Nation podcast.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't miss an episode and I've learned a lot through those as well I mean, I think anybody that enjoys listening to this podcast would certainly enjoy the small nation podcast as well to to double up on learning lessons from other entrepreneurs, community development people and and just other dreamers and doers that are out there making it happen, um, and so I appreciate that very much. So thanks again for being on with me, jason. It's always great to go down memory lane, but also to also to vision and dream about what's still possible for our communities and others. I know we're both deeply passionate about old buildings, people with a desire to better their lives through entrepreneurship and just making places that we can be proud of to live, and so we're going to keep working towards it together. I'm going to keep robbing your ideas and hopefully can add some more to you Onward and upward. Luke, absolutely Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:We're excited for the future. So thanks again, thanks to everybody for listening. Please continue to share this with someone else who maybe could be impacted through hearing Jason's story, through hearing just what we're working on and the good things that are happening and continue to happen and are able to happen other places as well. Thanks again, thanks for listening to the Main Street Reimagined podcast. To learn more about Main Street Reimagined henry development group or our work in downtown marion, ohio, please visit mainstreetreimaginedcom. If you want to connect or if you know someone who we need to interview, shoot us an email at info at mainstreetreimaginedcom. Until next time, keep dreaming and don't be afraid to take the leap.