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Main Street Reimagined Podcast
This is a podcast for dreamers, creators, developers, and entrepreneurs to learn, share, and be inspired to change your community through small business.
Main Street Reimagined Podcast
Episode 31: Dreamers, Developers, and the Art of Community Building with Andy Warnock
Are you curious about how small towns can thrive again? Join us for this enlightening conversation as Luke Henry welcomes Andy Warnock to the Main Street Reimagined podcast, where they unfold fascinating stories of community building and revitalization. This episode dives deep into the nitty-gritty of what it takes to breathe new life into forgotten places. Andy shares his relatable experiences as a developer focused on transforming towns, emphasizing the importance of listening to local voices and addressing their needs.
From impactful community discussions to sharing a vision for the future, Andy's insights reveal the beauty of connecting historical preservation with modern development. His passion for collaboration shines through as he discusses his successful projects in Hilliard, London, and Plain City, proving that when community needs are prioritized, the heart of a town can thrive again. This episode offers valuable lessons for those interested in entrepreneurship and revitalization efforts, urging listeners to take that leap into the unknown and make a difference in their communities. With a wealth of knowledge on navigating skepticism and fostering relationships, Andy inspires us to view development as a collaboration rather than a solo mission.
For anyone feeling that pull to reinvigorate their community, this episode provides practical insights and encouragement to make a lasting impact. Together, we can turn visions into reality and create spaces where dreams can flourish!
Guest Links:
Website: www.westwoodcollective.com
Main Street Reimagined:
Facebook: facebook.com/MainStreetReimagined
The Main Street Reimagined Podcast, Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqfkmF5bRH0od1d3iiYKs3oEn_gvMYk7N
Henry Development Group:
Facebook: facebook.com/henrydevelopmentgroup
Website: www.henrydevelopmentgroup.com
Developing News Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/33110524eb5c/developing-news
Luke Henry:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/luhenry
Facebook: facebook.com/luke.henry.148
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One of the hardest things about being an entrepreneur is those nights where you're laying in bed and you can't sleep because these ideas are on your brain and you just want them to come to life tomorrow yesterday. And it doesn't. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, it doesn't mean those tenants, those businesses shouldn't jump into the pool and figure out how to swim along the way and figure out how to swim along the way.
Speaker 2:This is the Main Street Reimagined podcast, a show for people ready to turn visions into realities and ideas into businesses. Hey, I'm Luke Henry and each week I lead conversations with Main Street dreamers who took the leap to launch a business, renovate a building or start a movement, their ideas, their mindsets and their inspirations, as well as some of the highs and lows along the way. This is a place for dreamers, creators, developers and entrepreneurs to learn, share and be inspired to change your community through small business. Enjoy the show. Hey friends, luke Henry here. This is the Main Street Reimagined Podcast. Thanks so much for being with us. This is Episode 31, and I'm very excited today to be joined by my friend, andy Warnock. Hey Andy, hey Luke, thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely so good to be with you here.
Speaker 2:We are recording on-site from Firefly Winery in Hilliard, ohio, Old Hilliard. Andy's one of Andy's projects and you're going to be learning a lot about some others that he has worked and is working on. That he has worked and is working on. But if you are not watching this on YouTube, you need to flip over there and check it out, because this is just a spectacular project, spectacular building. We've got the bar here in the background. That's just really well done, really cool spot.
Speaker 2:And so I met Andy a little over a year ago through mutual Marion connections All roads lead back to Marion, as we like to say, and we just instantly hit it off are both very aligned in our vision and values and our passion for old buildings, creating community and small business and all of that. So we've had a lot of great conversations in the last year and have connected with some other like-minded people and have put together a little bit of a group of us that are having some meetings and discussions and just trying to make our communities a better place. So I'm excited to dig in and talk a little bit more about that stuff, as am I. Thanks, luke, yeah, so, first of all, so Andy has Westwood Collective, which is, as the name implies, kind of a collection of companies. So why don't you tell us a little bit about that specifically, if folks haven't heard of your group?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Westwood is actually the street that I grew up on in Delaware, ohio. So people ask all the time where did where did the name come from? And you know I look back into my childhood years and people ask also why real estate? And there were two games that I found myself playing in my youth pretty regularly. One was Monopoly and the second was Sim City on a computer, the only computer game I played. I love that too.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Right. So you know, I think subconsciously, before I really knew what real estate development was, I had this passion forged in Delaware. So I wanted the moniker for which we do business to pay respects to my past and where I came from. Where I came from, and also, I think I didn't appreciate what Delaware, ohio, was until I got older and was trying to find a place to plant our roots, to raise our four children. And when I look back at my time in Delaware, it had a vibrant downtown. It had a sense of community. The type of businesses and people were just something I gravitated to. So I wanted to bring that to a place like Hilliard, and the more time we spent here, the more I said, okay, this is a blank canvas for us to come in and create some of those things that, again, I appreciated from my past.
Speaker 1:So the one thing that was missing in Hilliard was really the historic buildings. This was a farming town with a train stop, so really a railroad town, and you don't have the iconic three-story main street buildings here. So the collective is truly just that. It's a collective of small towns that we have decided to develop and redevelop. It's a collective of buildings. So this is a new building that we're in. There were two dilapidated structures on this parcel when we bought it. We decided tearing those down and building new was better than taking what we had and doing something with it. But we have a lot of buildings in the shadows of this that we've taken the old bones and created something new. So we went out to Plain City, we went out to London Ohio both, which have some really neat historic building stock rolled up our sleeves and went to work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So it's become a whole collective of things and places and people and you've got kind of development arm and real estate arm and doing some other things as well and like to stay busy. Obviously I do, and I love hearing the story of you know the kind of smaller town roots and how that really gave you a vision for what was possible and what you're trying to do in some of these communities today. So I mean, as we're kind of rewinding, I mean let's talk about the rest of the story. You talked about growing up in Delaware. I know you went to college right there at Ohio Wesleyan, and then what Kind of take us through some of the early career years and what led to where you are today.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I met my business mentor at Ohio Wesleyan. He had founded a real estate finance company and went immediately to work there, first as an intern and then full time. We originated loans for real estate developers across the country, predominantly in the multifamily housing space. So seniors housing, student housing, market rate and affordable apartment communities Learned a ton, not only being on the lending side I think was really important, because I learned what banks looked for in projects but also I got exposed to all of these developers who did it different ways in different geographies, and was able to pull different parts from each of those developers that I really liked and respected and create my own vision for what I thought made sense.
Speaker 1:And, as time evolved, I was a one-trick pony. For a long time it was apartments, apartments, apartments, apartments, and it was very good to. For a long time it was apartments, apartments, apartments, apartments, and it was very good to me Both the lending business was good to me, but also investing in apartments. Along the way we were able to grow from really a couple dozen units in 2008 to 2,600 units in just a few years post-recession. We took some significant risk, but I felt it was prudent risk. I spent every day studying apartments and multifamily housing, and when we were presented with some of these opportunities after the credit meltdown, it just seemed like we had found something that was a deal of a lifetime. So we found an investor. We continued to buy and buy and buy and gosh, we rode those rents up to the point by 2018, it was hard to make sense of apartment deals, or at least I thought so, but the wave continued and that's when I decided look, I want the next chapter of my real estate career to be focused on small town revitalization.
Speaker 1:So we started here in Hilliard, bought a Victorian home, put in a barbecue restaurant and really had a ton of momentum from there. We put in the first Airbnb in Hilliard. We put in an indoor golf lounge to bring some entertainment and vibrancy to the downtown, other restaurants, obviously the winery that we sit in. We did patio homes. We tried to find different housing stock that we thought was important to have in the downtown core and really, you know, the best part is we live where we're developing and sometimes you have a target on your back, as you know, and it can be tough, but the beauty was we ask our friends and our neighbors what is it that this community is missing. What do we need? And then it became kind of a mission statement for us how do we fill voids in the communities for which we're developing? Yeah, and the only way to really know that is to ask the people there what is it that you want?
Speaker 2:yeah, how did you do that specifically? I mean, I know know we've utilized social media for that. We have some other friends that have kind of taken a similar approach. I mean, what did that look like for you?
Speaker 1:So I would say in Hilliard it was pretty informal, it was over beers, at cookouts, it was on the sidelines of basketball and soccer games, of basketball and soccer games. As we kind of built this business and these ideas then, as we gravitated to like London Ohio, you know, we went out there and I think there's a healthy level of skepticism when a developer comes to town. So we actually promoted a Q&A with me, the developer for people to come in a public setting, sit down with me and ask whatever hard questions they wanted to ask, and it was great. We spent a couple of hours doing that. I think it disarms the community a little bit by giving them a forum directly to us. It gave them a voice which they were excited about and, frankly, we listened. We listened to what they wanted and we've had a really good experience out there in London Ohio and I think that's a big piece of us setting the table to again ask, not come in and think that we had the best solutions for their small town.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's a really great best practice. You know somebody who's out there listening and you have ideas for your community or neighboring community or whatever, and you are thinking about some projects, asking people what they're looking for and trying to make that group as diverse as possible. I think any of us in this day and age are so guilty because it's so easy to get into echo chambers of people that think like us, that look like us, that have similar incomes as us and just think what we want. But really a community, and especially a downtown, is for all people. So that means a diversity of income and background and all of those different factors to make it a really vibrant community.
Speaker 1:And we're in the three markets that we're playing in currently have just that. They have socioeconomic diversity. You know they have some of that old money, new money, and it is really important to have diversity of thought, diversity of opinion. But you know, I remember distinctly a conversation about Dora, which is designated outdoor refreshment area which some of these downtowns have that allow you to walk with an open alcohol in hand, and the perception is that you know, when you bring these Doras to these downtowns that you're promoting alcoholism, you're promoting the seedy bars and it's the exact opposite and trying to educate these folks that no, it actually brings the families down for the parents to have a glass of wine to listen to.
Speaker 1:You know we have musicians that post up here in downtown Hilliard. It becomes a very family-friendly place and it's not that alcohol is abused, it just promotes the vitality that actually we're all looking for. So we did that in Hilliard. Dora was launched. It was very successful. It brought on new businesses, new restaurants, and now we're doing that and really championing that in other communities, but getting out in front of the idea that change is a problem and in all of these areas where we're coming in and we're drastically changing the landscape. You want to give those folks a forum to question, to vent and to not take it personally right To go in and really be collaborative versus combative.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think we've both found that downtowns in particular because they do include a lot of kind of public assets whether it's green spaces, city and county buildings and courthouses and sidewalks and all of that some people have some very strong opinions about what their downtown should be and, as you kind of experienced I mean kudos to you. I mean, I think the public forum idea is really it sounds like it was really effective. I mean, I had to maybe be a little nervous going into that as to who was gonna show up, but it sounds like it was really effective. I mean, you know, had to maybe be a little nervous going into that as to who was going to show up, but it sounds like it was very productive in the end. You know, as you start to get some, some challenges and some criticism, I mean, what were some of the things that came up and how did you help to try to kind of dispel misinformation or kind of quell tempers or whatever around some of that?
Speaker 1:Well, we're in a pretty unique spot. We're an established real estate company that we don't have to stretch for deals, we don't have to stretch for tenants. And I think one of the concerns was that when a developer comes in and buys a building that's vacant and rehabs it, that they're you know're panicked to get the first tenant into the building. So I remember a gentleman asking me if these CD bars or the thrift stores or the smoke shops and not to say that those are bad tenants or bad people but they're more polarizing than some of the other tenancy options he said if they call you, what are you going to do? And I said look, the beauty of who we are where we are, the beauty of London giving us a tax abatement that buys us some time and makes the numbers work better, is we don't have to stretch for those tenants. And we know from history that when you do you only shoot yourself in the foot. From history that when you do, you only shoot yourself in the foot. So that's one of probably many conversations we had where people were just skeptical of developers in general and what our motivations are. The thought is and I think sometimes this is true the developer is motivated simply by the bottom line, and I know you well enough, I know some of the others who have been on this podcast well enough that we're motivated, yes, to stay in business and keep the lights on, but there's an intangible benefit to what we do that you can't ignore and I just I think that was important for them to hear genuinely that we're not coming into your town to get rich, we're coming into your town because we love the before and after of taking these old buildings. Frankly, in some of these towns, if someone doesn't get to them soon, they're beyond the point of repair. So we're coming in and truly salvaging the history of some of these towns.
Speaker 1:And when you share that and again, I think there's still some level of skepticism among the ranks that, okay, this guy is saying all the right things, but does he really mean it? And then there are other times. We've invited them into the communities. We've already made the difference and said look, come to a place like the winery and see and feel what we do and why we do it, and maybe you'll become a believer. And they have the Chamber of Commerce from those other municipalities have come to Hillier to see what we've done here. So you know it's a lot of elbow grease. Again, I said rolling up the sleeves it's. You have to take the time to set the table to really get these folks believing. But you're always going to look on social media and see somebody who's not happy and what do you do about that and how do you handle that and how do you not let it deter you from what the majority really wants to see done in their town?
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do you keep it from deterring you personally?
Speaker 1:Look, I think I've been at this since 2006. So I think you, you get a little, you build up a thicker skin as time goes on. You know you get a good team around you that can can help silence some of the noise. But again, I'm a. It's like when I coach my fifth grade basketball team and they're getting heckled and I said, look, the best way to shut up the other team and shut up the other fans is go, put points on the board. And for us I think from a development standpoint, that's what we've been able to do is we've been able to have successful projects that silence the critics, and it just takes time to get there. But I think that's been the biggest win for us is just and again, doing what we say, listening to what the people want, and you're not going to be able to bring every vision to life.
Speaker 1:You know we just had somebody ask us to build this. Really, we had mentioned that we're doing a food truck venue in one of the municipalities. We had mentioned we do a kid's area with a climbing wall and some fun things, and we had somebody reach out and say, oh, we'd love a climbing park and I don't know anything about rock climbing or vertical climbing, but it's one of those things I'd love to do that we can't say yes to everything. We put that kind of in the file and say look as this evolves and grows, remember all of these different ideas that have been brought to us and let's see what we can bring to life over time. And this is a good example Firefly Winery, where you had a local operator, a family, who was doing the wine.
Speaker 1:That came to us, the local developer, and said, hey, we would love to do a winery. Would you be interested in doing the real estate side of it? And we'll do the operating side of it. Those are my favorite partnerships when you have local vested parties working together to bring something like this to a reality. Because, again, I think people are craving, now more than ever, that local appeal, and you're able to bring that when you have true residents of the community as the business owners.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you don't mind, share a little more about how that then went, from that initial conversation here with Firefly to kind of through. I mean, there's a lot of steps to get from that idea to where we sit today, operating business you know doing very well in their first, you know, six months or so here open. Tell us a little more about that journey.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So obviously you want to get to know each other on a personal level to make sure the interests and values align, as you had mentioned earlier. But the product too. I would say I was healthily skeptical of an Ohio wine, not that I'm a wine buff by any sense of the imagination. My wife would be better equipped than I to say what's good and what's bad. But you know, I always worry about is the product something that people want? And my fear was Ohio grapes aren't the best for winemaking, so I really wanted to understand how are you going to make this? What's the product going to be like?
Speaker 1:So this goes well beyond the real estate side of it. This goes into, you know, is the business even viable? And as I got to know Joe and Jenny and realized okay, they're bringing their product in from California, from the state of Washington, from upstate New York that they had done their recon and their market research, and they realized, okay, we have to have a product that sells. So the more you just get to know these people and spend time with them, I reviewed their business plan. They were recruiting investors. I decided to invest also in the business, not just in the building that we're in.
Speaker 1:So, again, interests are aligned at that point and you know not so much that Joe and Jenny needed this, but some of our other tenants. They need that business mentorship. It's their first venture. They don't know what they don't know. We've been through it, we've been forged by fire. So we like those alignment of interest opportunities where we can own a piece of the business and be the landlord, because then it's easier for us to devote time and energy to helping with marketing. Uh, making suggestions on operations, uh, I don't. You know, sexton's Pizza doesn't need me to tell them how to make pizza. Legacy Smokehouse doesn't need to tell me how to make barbecue. It is helpful to just have somebody that can bounce the business stuff off of.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, there's a long courtship and then obviously there's the development side where you're trying to find synergies in the space. I would say I'm a bit of a control freak. I know that about myself and I like having some of the creative control over some of the creative aspects of these buildings. Fortunately, jenny Hollibaugh she and her husband Joe share a similar taste to me, so you know the tile in the background here. We had a really neat brick specced for there. That was just way too expensive and we had to get creative. And Jenny and I, I think at the soccer field out of the back of her car, had floor and decor boxes and this was one of the tiles that was significantly less.
Speaker 1:But it's getting into those weeds. And some people say, get out of the weeds, right, when you're trying to run a business. But we're dedicated to excellence and we want things to look and feel differently. So sometimes you have to get into the weeds, especially with some of these larger tenants that you want to be successful. And that's just one of many examples of us really walking in lockstep as we tried to bring this vision to life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So, as you know, as someone that's then investing in the business, you're going to be the landlord ultimately. You know you're involved in those design decisions, not just decor, but also, obviously, as you're working through the architecture and engineering and all of that, really trying to make suggestions because you've done this, you know, I mean you've worked through other projects and I mean I know you know from having done the same, like you just learn stuff, uh, typically by stumbling or or face planting or something you know some level of, uh failure of different things we think might work out that we don't want to have it happen again with the next tenant. So we're trying to bring some of those best practices and experiences to the table with those discussions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, like my wife and I joke all the time. So we've now built three homes and every time you build a home, immediately upon completion, there's 15 things you would have done differently. Right, and you love those homes. But even this last one that we built, you know you get done, you love of this space, but there are things you would do differently.
Speaker 1:So it really is about reps and, and you know, the first projects you do are going to be really important foundational resources for you as you continue to grow. So, yeah, again, for a lot of these tenants in small towns it's not somebody with an established track record. So you know you do have to handhold, probably a little more than if you're in downtown Columbus and Cameron Mitchell calls you to do a restaurant, you say where do you sign and you get out of the way and you let the pros do what they do best. So I particularly like that piece of it of getting to know. I mean, I'm big on the relational side, so getting to know the people that you're aligning with and you know there's then a level of depth that is more meaningful to the business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and you know. So, really, following all the way through, I mean, you were here on opening night and you know, have been an advocate for the business and you're trying to make connections for them and making you know recommending it to your friends and family and all those things that you know, because you are aligned.
Speaker 2:You know everyone wants to be successful with this venture. I mean not just for the sake of the business and, you know, paying your mortgage that you now have on the place, but also because that spills over to the other things that you're trying to do, you know, in the neighboring blocks and so forth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you hit on something that I've tried to introduce as we're moving forward here with some of these other concepts and other markets, which is, if you're bringing to life a unique concept like a winery, and you need investors, and obviously there are investment rules that you have to follow. But how cool if you can figure out a crowdfunding model where you bring in local investment and all of a sudden those folks become brand ambassadors for what you're trying to do. So it can be, you know, a thousand dollars, 2,500, 5,000, 25,000, but to have these attainable investment dollar amounts that you know, if you get a hundred investors and again, everybody listening, there are investment rules that you have to follow. But and I haven't figured all of this out, but I just can't help you know there's a, there's a building in downtown here that I would love to have to do a steakhouse. There's no steakhouse here in town and I've promised my 13 year old I'll bring him a steakhouse at some point in my business career.
Speaker 1:But I would love then to bring people in and they're part of the founders club or they're part of some sort of VIP experience where now you have some number of people that live in this town who are championing championing the business regularly and patronizing the business regularly because they're proud of being part of, of whatever that business is. And I think that that's a model that obviously we're going to test and try at Westwood to see. You know, what does that do to the success of the underlying business? But I can't help but think, if you build this legion of allies and this army of you know social media influencers at an amateur level, that it's going to be effective. So we'll report back on where we get with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I've had similar thoughts. I mean I think we've even talked about it before a little bit that just trying to get creative and scrappy on how we're promoting places and just creating stickiness with concepts and community and really getting people invested in tangible ways in being part of the progress of the community, and I think that's a really great idea. Are there other ways that you've? You know that you've deployed or seen work in some of the communities where you're working to create that advocacy and an army of people that are really trying to help push the mission forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I also really believe in public private partnership and public private collaboration. So here in Hilliard I'm impressed with there's this downtown district. Now, in fact, the city of Hilliard has appointed a downtown manager who her role is really to bring the businesses together, routinely talk about things that are working, that aren't working. One of the big challenges here right now is wayfinding how do people find the businesses One? But more importantly, how do people find the parking lots to park, to know where, how they can access these, these businesses? And you know Hilliard also has the Hilliard Development Corporation, which they take the bed tax from the hotels Somehow that funds this, this program, and they provide grants for facade improvements.
Speaker 1:So again, when you have these private developers, you know private entrepreneurs and businesses working hand in hand with the cities. I shouldn't say when you have to have that For it to be successful, you really have to have. And then we've got a great chamber of commerce. You know that is involved and provides networking opportunities. So I look at what we have here in Hilliard and while it's perhaps not perfect, what I really appreciate about it is that you do have that real collaboration between the city and the private folks and that builds a foundation that you can then grow upon. I mean, they've also invested in a city splash pad and a city amphitheater and they bring in musical acts every Thursday in the summer and they close down the streets and they police the streets and so again, they're investing in the downtown because I and they believe that the downtown of these suburbs is the heartbeat of the town. It's where community happens, it's where memories are made, it's where businesses start and flourish. So they have spent real dollars to bring activities and events to this downtown so that the businesses can be successful. You need your walkable retail, you need your restaurants, you need your entertainment, you need your hospitality. I'm big on the Airbnb side of things. You go to a Nashville we talked about Nashville earlier, before we went on air. The Austin Texas is the trendy towns where there's growth and people want to be there, and you need to be able to bring somebody in for a reunion or a wedding or a business trip and let them stay in your downtown. And so many of these downtowns don't have boutique or historic hotel optionality. So thank goodness we have this VRBO and Airbnb model where you can take some of these charming homes and make them an experience, and we love that.
Speaker 1:At Westwood, we like to be creative. We're not just about the deal itself, and I think Airbnbs and those types of concepts allow you to really be creative and make it an experience. We've got an old auto repair shop that we're trying to purchase in town and it's public now so I can talk about it. But one of the things that we're noodling right now is a vintage car indoor miniature golf concept, and this is a family town. Miniature golf is tried and true. Indoor allows us to do it 12 months a year, and while we're not again going to get rich on miniature golf, it's foot traffic. It brings people down here to eat at our restaurants, to shop at our shops, to stay at our Airbnbs. So we know just by trial and error that you have to bring some of those entertainment options to create that stickiness, and so that's high on our list as something that we want to bring to this downtown district.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. You know what I would call a lot of what you're talking about, the recipe for success, and you know, for example, you're talking about the public private partnership. Our last episode we had our downtown Marion Inc director and board president on and and in Marion. Some of those functions that you're talking about the city doing is what that organization does and those Main Street organizations and other communities sometimes serve that purpose. But still, we also talked in that same episode and earlier one with our mayor of Marion. With our mayor of Marion, the way that you know, the city and the downtown organizations and the private businesses, the private developers, are all collaborating to try to work towards that common vision. But then the recipe includes entertainment, hospitality, dining, events and just all of those pieces. Those are the recipes.
Speaker 1:I mean, we've seen it working you know in in.
Speaker 2:You know, like you said, nashville, tennessee, austin, texas. You know they're doing it on a bigger scale. But also you know folks might say, well, yeah, of course, hilliard, I mean it's, you know, proximate to Columbus. You know they're getting all this overflow. It's the same recipe as what? You know we're using in Marion, or you know our friends are using in Sydney and Bell Fountain and Urbana and Lima and you know it works if you can get those unique elements to come together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, and you know as well as I know that sometimes us as small town developers, we have to create some of the businesses ourselves. Right, and I've said it's a tough time in my life, with four young kids, to devote my time to operating businesses. I look at Arise Brands in Columbus, ohio, that does the arcades and the pins mechanicals, and you look at all of their concepts and they're all wildly successful. Yeah, troy's an incredible visionary, right, and I think about Westwood, having this live Westwood as our apartments, the work Westwood, which would be retail and office, the stay Westwood, which would be Airbnbs, and then the play Westwood, which would be the one nine golf lounge, the miniature golf course, but bringing other concepts along the way that allow us to plug in our own businesses into these buildings until such time Because, again, that's not my, not my passion is creating the place for another entrepreneur to come in and create their own dreams.
Speaker 1:But unfortunately there are times those buildings don't immediately lease up and you have to then reimagine what could this space be, at least temporarily? So you know we're thinking through as a business. You know how do we staff those types of concepts and who really brings those to life, and that's. There's always going to be a challenge with capacity, both time and financial capacity. But, yes, but I think that anybody who goes into these suburban downtowns and thinks I can just build it and they will come yes, sometimes you you have these perfect storms, like Firefly Winery, where that is indeed the case, and sometimes you buy a building and it's beautiful and you just don't have that tenant and you have to figure out okay, how am I going to get creative here and bring something to life, at least temporarily?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean, you know you and I are both students of the game and we're developing these relationships with other people that are doing this work. You know, first of all, we're sharing ideas, we're stealing ideas back and forth from each other, which we're happy to do because we're not competitive. You know, we can collaborate on these things and it is amazing how many of the people that we've met that really just out of necessity, have started one or more businesses, some of them several, to really kind of get the ball rolling. And so you know, if there's someone out there listening and you know it's like, hey, we want something for our downtown, you know it has potential. Maybe you own a building or two or three and you're trying to build it and you know they're not coming.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know that was our story in Marion. We had the vision and we had the buildings, but we didn't have the tenants, and so it started like, well, we're going to have to get this going, and that meant starting a few businesses to get it going. And you know, I think it's a proven model. I mean, it's not easy, it's definitely not the easy track, but if you're going to be what one of my friends calls a patron developer, where you're kind of going to start it and then others, once you've proven the concept, can come along and step into it. That's often what it takes.
Speaker 1:It is, and we've prided ourselves on being a flexible and accommodating business, and what I mean by that is you look at my top two staff within the Westwood Enterprise on the business side. We've got all these great people on the ground as well. But Lauren and Cole I mean Lauren is a tenant of ours, she has a clothing boutique and she came down here from Finley, ohio, another great small town, and, you know, very quickly gravitated to what we were doing and said, hey, I would love to be your assistant, just spreading the word and trying to grow this. So we were able to take one of our tenants, who knows what it's like to be on Main Street and an entrepreneur, bring her in househouse and be an asset for the development company. And then Cole, on the other side, he's a jack of all trades and does a little bit of property management and finance and leasing and he's also part of our real estate brokerage. So he has his real estate license, so he understands the real estate side.
Speaker 1:But we've tried to become a company that has some economies of scale. So the brokerage allows us to do our own leasing or find our own deals or represent our tenants in other pursuits and becoming vertically integrated. You know, I know you have a landscape hardscape business and I had always said I should have a painting company, I should have a landscape company because we employ all of these people. Now again, there's a capacity problem to have all of that. But I love that this type of business forces you to be creative and think outside the box and by us giving a runway to some of our staff to be entrepreneurial themselves and give them time in the day to run their own businesses or deal with business problems. Some would argue that that deters from the productivity of Westwood Collective. I would argue it just arms them to be better employees of mine and more loyal to what we're trying to do which is redefine what suburban and small town America should look like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I love that. So you haven't talked a lot about Plain City, but also working on some projects over there. Yeah, tell us a little bit about how that started and how it's going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really neat. So my partner out there, race, came to Hilliard with his father-in-law and kind of said look, I'm not a real estate guy but I'm a lifelong Plain City resident. He's about my age. He said I love what you're doing in Hilliard. Would you come out and run alongside me in Plain City? So I go out to Plain City and again I fell in love with the fact that you have these three-story brick buildings that are 120 years old. That did not look very good when I got out there but you could see the sprawl of Columbus heading west and all of the prospects for that village. It's not even a city yet because of its population.
Speaker 1:So we bought the old fire station and converted it into co-working and private office and meeting space. We bought the clock tower building, which is probably the most historic building in that town, and converted it. It was once a hardware store, antique store. Now it's going to be a full-service restaurant with a 120-person reception venue on the second floor. We're in talks with a couple of potential restaurants. That project will be done in a few months.
Speaker 1:The McCune building, a three-story brick building that we ended up on the third floor putting in a private cocktail club that has just done phenomenally Incredible space. Yeah, beautiful. But you look at the tenant mix In that building we have a 3D ultrasound, we have an esthetician, we have a photographer, we have a home goods store, we have a barber Tried and true small town tenancy Tried and true small town tenancy. But we're giving them these spaces that are just different than everything else they could find. I mean the exposed brick walls. You're taking the old bank building and leaving the safe and the vault in there and creating something special in the space with that.
Speaker 1:So the beauty of it for me is Hilliard is centric to our business, but Plain City is 15 minutes up the road so we actually are able to collaborate with some of our Hilliard tenants. I love, I call it the triangle model. So we have Plain City 15 minutes away and then 15 or 20 minutes down the road is London and it's all kind of triangulated together, which allows for ease of, you know, management, leasing. You know property management is not for the faint of heart. So to be able to have geographies that are nearby, where you can again gain some synergies in the management of these assets, is important. We made a conscious decision that there's enough small towns within a 30 mile radius that we don't need to go travel two, three, four hours to find an opportunity. We're going to stay focused on local. Be able to get home for dinner, be able to coach our kids in sports that was important for us, so we've been pretty conscious about trying to find markets that allow us to do all of that.
Speaker 2:What would you point to as you look at these three different towns that are kind of on different places in the progress arc that have been some of the most catalytic projects, whether they're yours or they're something that others?
Speaker 1:have done.
Speaker 2:They're yours or they're, you know, something that others have done that have really. You feel like you know there's a clear inflection point where it was going a certain way and then it got dramatically better with in that particular community with a certain project.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'll be first to Hilliard. I mean Crooked Can Brewery, which is not ours but very friends of ours and entrepreneurs that we respect the heck out of. But you know they created this market atmosphere with multiple food options. The brewery is obviously the anchor tenant Great outdoor space in the absolute heart of this downtown and you know for the longest time.
Speaker 1:Very well done, Very well done and for the longest time. You know, I would say, when you're looking to do something on a Friday night, you were leaving Hilliard to go find that option. And then when Crooked Can came in, all of Hilliard, it seemed, was coming to the Crooked Can Friday nights, saturday afternoons, all through the summer, the summer. And when I knew Hilliard made it was you're talking to people that are from Grandview, from Upper Arlington, from Dublin, from Powell, places that they never came across the river to Hilliard. And now you have this what I call a communal space, this space that had enough room for congregation of residents but also had optionality. You know, by having this market concept with you know Asian and American food and Greek food, and you know you had all of these different options that allowed the melting pot that you know we all are to come and really find something that works for them.
Speaker 1:So that was as catalytic as a project as this town has seen in a long, long time. And then again, with the city just before Crooked Can, putting in the splash pad adjacent to it. Now you have a public amenity anchored by a private restaurant and brewery and you're starting to see like in Plain City. The city has now plans and has started on a community center to again bring people down and congregate and then go spend money in the local businesses. And that's why we're launching in London this food park concept and we're working with a local restaurant out there to do events as well weddings, corporate events because we saw what Crooked Can did here and the problem in London it's probably eight or 10 years behind.
Speaker 1:Where Hilliard is, the demographics aren't quite as strong. It doesn't have that communal space in its downtown, so there's no reason for people other than to stop into a store, make a purchase and head on their way, no reason for them to park their car, spend a few hours, walk the streets and we're realizing that if we don't do that we're going to lose some of our tenants, that stickiness isn't created. So we've prioritized that, even though we have all sorts of other projects we want to do out there. We just know that seeing the success of the cricket can, that that's the next thing that needs to happen there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, really great, great advice. I mean, there has to be all of these pieces in order to create the vibrancy that people crave. You know whether they can put their finger on it. You know we're all the time kind of again comparing notes and looking and studying what are the perfect ingredients in the sauce, the places that are doing it well and being successful, what are they doing? And sometimes it's time, these communities, whether you're guys like us that are trying to put the projects together, whether it's you're one of the kind of pioneering tenants that went in, you know, in the first five years of a project that you know is ultimately going to be maybe 10 or 15.
Speaker 2:It's easy to get impatient, but it does take time. You know, we're changing people's perceptions, we're changing people's patterns of behavior and habits and it's slower than we'd all want. Believe me, you know I have this conversation Truly a marathon, not a sprint.
Speaker 1:And again I use Jason Duff, who's been on your podcast before. In Bellefountain, you look at what that was a dozen years ago and what it is today and it's truly taken all of that 12 years and a lot of energy and time and money and resources. So again, I use them as an example, often for these towns that want to snap your fingers and the progress to have been completely evolved and it just it doesn't work that way. And that's real estate in general. You know, you look at many of these real estate podcasts and books and self-help tutorials and many of them make it seem like it's a get-rich-quick scheme or that the transformation happens quickly. And I'm here to tell you I mean, I've been at this for 19 years. It is worth it, but it absolutely takes years to effectuate what our visions. And you can probably relate to this. One of the hardest things about being an entrepreneur is those nights where you're laying in bed and you can't sleep because these ideas are on your brain and you just want them to come to life tomorrow yesterday.
Speaker 1:And it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it and it doesn't. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It doesn't mean those tenants, those businesses shouldn't jump into the pool and figure out how to swim along the way. And I was just with a guy, a friend of mine, this morning who said how do I know it's time to get into the real estate? And I said look, if you're trying to time it, you're never going to get in, right, you know at some point. Yes, interest rates aren't the best. Yes, construction costs are expensive. Yes, there's more demand than there is supply, so prices are high, but there are deals to be made in every market and there's opportunities along the way to refinance the debt, rents to grow.
Speaker 1:So I would just encourage everybody who's listening, that has an interest in real estate in general, but in particular small town redevelopment, real estate, that if you don't jump into the deep end, you're never going to learn how to swim. And that's not to say to make a reckless or hasty decision. It's just when you got a deal that seems to work, go make it work. Got a deal that seems to work, go make it work. And that's what guys like you do, and I respect you for it is. Yes, there are going to be some things that pop up that cost money, cost time. But you know what I can say, having 19 years in the rearview mirror, to say those deals I bought early on that weren't very profitable they're profitable now and they were worth doing. So seeing it to fruition is special and I have some perspective and hindsight that others don't to just encourage and champion Go do it, go do it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well said, Really well said, as you look at these different communities and you know you have continued visions for them, I know, and projects that are in the works.
Speaker 1:When is it done? It's a great question, and I have a lot of people that say like, don't you have enough things on your plate? Why more?
Speaker 1:For me, look I always tell people it will be organic when I know my role is done. But I'm. But this is all about legacy for me. I hope that one of my children want to get into this business and carry the baton when I can't anymore, because the beauty of the work that we're doing is you hope that it survives for not only decades but potentially centuries. You're taking these buildings and you're giving them extended life and you're putting your fingerprints on them.
Speaker 1:So I love what I do and it's not a job for me. So people say what are your hobbies? I don't have hobbies. You know this is my hobby, this is my livelihood, this is my career, this is my hobby. This is my livelihood, this is my career, this is my hobby. Yes, I love sports. Part of the reason we built a gymnasium facility is I was able to combine my love of sports and real estate. Like that's how big the sickness is I have for real estate. But that's a beautiful thing when you have something you're so passionate about that you love spending your time doing it. And so again, I don't know. I think, as long as I can continue to be accretive in these communities, that the communities are receptive to the ideas and the buildings and the places that we're bringing forth, that there's no reason for us to stop. Keep the engine going.
Speaker 2:I love it. Well, you know that we could talk for literally hours and I'm sure that at least some people would love hearing the conversation, but we'll stop it there for this episode. I'm sure we didn't get to everything that well, we didn't get to everything that I wanted to cover, but that'll leave us some content for another future episode here, perhaps. So I do want to get well. Two final questions. One is I'd love to hear from folks just if there's been something that's been a particular help to you along the way in this journey, whether it's an educational resource, inspirational resource. Where do you go when you are, you know, looking to learn or be inspired?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you touched on a little bit that we have this consortium of like-minded small town developers. We call it the small town developer summit when we meet, and what I love about that is it's people who are in the trenches, living the lives that you and I are living, and it's not again competitive because we all have our own playgrounds, as I call it. So to me it's. You know, the podcasts are great, the books are great.
Speaker 1:I do some of all of that, but I think the thing that one keeps me going, allows me to vent. You know, just is continued encouragement is finding those people who are doing what you're doing, or doing what you want to be doing, and asking for their time, and you'll be surprised at how many people want to share. Not everybody wants to share, but I think the people who are doing this not just for that last dollar, who are doing it because there are intangible benefits along the way, they want to be collaborative. So I think for me that's the top of the list is finding those people that you can share, ideate with, and we found that and it's been a huge blessing.
Speaker 2:I agree, yeah, I mean, it all comes back to what we're trying to create for others, which is community. Right, we want community as well, and that's what's been the most beneficial. So if folks want to follow along with some of your projects and progress and what all is going on, how can they do that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're on all the socials but westwoodcollectivecom W-E-S-T-W-O-O-D-C-O-L-L-E-C-T-I-V-Ecom. We're putting in all of our projects there and we have an info contact us form. So if you have questions of me or what we're doing, how we did it, you know we're an open book and we would love to share that, so feel free to be in touch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, love that. Thanks again, man.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate the conversation. It's been great those of you listening. Hopefully you've gotten as much value out of this as I have. Hopefully you've gotten educated, hopefully you've gotten inspired and uh hope you come back uh next week and hear another episode and we'll kind of try to keep bringing value and uh other great guests to uh help you along your journey. See you then. Thanks for listening to the main street re-imagined. To learn more about Main Street Reimagined Henry Development Group or our work in downtown Marion Ohio, please visit MainStreetReimaginedcom If you want to connect or if you know someone who we need to interview. Shoot us an email at info at MainStreetReimaginedcom. Until next time, keep dreaming and don't be afraid to take the leap.