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Main Street Reimagined Podcast
This is a podcast for dreamers, creators, developers, and entrepreneurs to learn, share, and be inspired to change your community through small business.
Main Street Reimagined Podcast
Episode 32: Sidney Series: Seth Middleton Shares a 10 Year Revitalization Journey
As a fourth-generation farmer with a background in agricultural and commercial banking, Seth recognized downtown Sidney’s potential when few others did. Starting in 2015, he began acquiring vacant buildings one by one, learning the complex world of commercial real estate development through hands-on experience. What began as a personal investment strategy evolved into a community revitalization effort that has helped transform Sidney’s downtown landscape.
Seth's approach combines financial acumen with genuine community passion. Rather than simply seeking the highest-paying tenants, he strategically recruits businesses that generate foot traffic and contribute to a vibrant downtown ecosystem. His partnerships with local investors who value legacy alongside returns have enabled larger projects that might otherwise be impossible. The Winter Market—a creative use of vacant basement space that now draws crowds during colder months—exemplifies his innovative thinking.
The Sidney story offers valuable lessons for aspiring downtown developers: start small and build momentum; partner with people who share your vision; focus on creating business ecosystems rather than isolated storefronts; and don't underestimate the power of temporary activations to prove concepts. Perhaps most importantly, Seth demonstrates that with vision and persistence, even seemingly abandoned downtowns can become thriving community centers again.
Whether you're contemplating your first building purchase or looking to expand your downtown development portfolio, Seth's journey from skeptical bank reactions to community transformation provides both inspiration and practical wisdom for navigating the challenges of small-town revitalization.
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#DowntownRevitalization #SmallTownTransformation #CommunityDevelopment #UrbanRenewal #HistoricPreservation #CommercialRealEstate #EconomicGrowth #LocalInvesting #SmallBusinessSupport #MainStreetMatters #Entrepreneurship #SustainableDevelopment #DowntownEcosystem #AdaptiveReuse #VisionaryLeadership
It may be the ugliest space you'll ever see, but I can walk in and say, oh, this is awesome. This is going to be exciting to see what happens here and that's, you know, from the dreamers to the doers. I think there's people out there that have that vision amongst many small towns, and when you see it and you're able to visualize it, you know you just have to find ways to get that end goal and make it happen.
Speaker 2:This is the Main Street Reimagined podcast, a show for people ready to turn visions into realities and ideas into businesses. Hey, I'm Luke Henry and each week I lead conversations with Main Street dreamers who took the leap to launch a business, renovate a building or start a movement, their ideas, their mindsets and their inspirations, as well as some of the highs and lows along the way. This is a place for dreamers, creators, developers and entrepreneurs to learn, share and be inspired to change your community through small business. Enjoy the show. Hey friends, luke Henry here, and this is the Main Street Reimagined Podcast, episode 32. Thanks so much for being here. We are so grateful for those of you that keep showing up every week and listening to the conversations. We're having value to you and having meaningful conversations that are helping you in your entrepreneurial journey your small business, your main street business or your small town reimagination of your own.
Speaker 2:So today I'm excited to be on location in Sydney, ohio, with my new friend here, seth Middleton. Hey, seth, hello. So Seth and I met a few months ago at a kind of a little meetup that we've started. So last episode we had Andy Warnock on and Andy and I talked a lot about the work that he's doing in a few small towns. Seth was at that meeting and Seth is another one of these guys, just like Andy, that he starts talking and I'm just like shaking my head up and down, just emphatically like, dude, you are reading my mail, uh, you are doing the the good work, fighting the good fight and uh, and I'm really happy to be doing it alongside other uh, courageous, uh people that are, uh, just wanting to make a difference. So Seth is one of those guys and so I'm excited to have him on the podcast. So appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you again. And so those of you that may not know Seth as I'm even still getting to know parts of his story, so I'm excited to be digging in today Tell us a little bit here about what you're doing here in Sydney, some of the projects you have going on, and then we'll kind of dig into some of the history of how the heck you got to this point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no problem. So I appreciate you having me on and an opportunity to talk a little bit about what we have going on here in Sydney. It's been a fun experience. Currently, we are in the process. A lot of our downtown storefronts have set vacant for some time. We have a pretty standard small town USA downtown, but I got started back in 2015. But today you know we're still working on a few vacant spots to try to build them out, find tenants that have a desire to bring their business to Sydney and find out what we can do to be a part of that. But the space that we're in currently for today was done about a year ago. I purchased the building back in 2019. And so today we have four storefronts here on Main Street, on Ohio Avenue, that have full operating businesses that are vital to the downtown, to what we have going on, and so we're trying to continue to build those out. We have two spaces that are still available and just figuring out ways to create opportunities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I've gotten a chance to walk through some of the spaces today with Seth and have been in some of the spaces before just visiting Sydney. It is a really quaint, really beautiful downtown that, like many I understand you know, kind of has went through a similar cycle as us back in Marion and a lot of other small towns around Ohio and really even just the US in general, where it was a thriving place. It kind of saw some decline, correct, and thanks to imaginative and courageous people like you, are being, uh, being revitalized and it's great to see so again. Those of you that are just listening and not watching on YouTube might hop over there and check this out. And we've got a great background here some exposed brick walls.
Speaker 2:I mean I would uh put this maybe, uh, early 1900s uh vintage building here here that's now a really great looking real estate office and so a good spot for our podcast here as well. So tell us a little bit about your journey, starting with growing up here in Western Ohio, and how you developed ultimately and found yourself where you are today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, I appreciate that because there's a lot of story to be had. I'm a fourth generation farmer, so I reside at the farm where I grew up, so I live in the house that I was born and raised in. I am a fourth generation farmer. I farm my parents' farm at 600 acres, so I've lived in Sydney all my life as far as on the outskirts, and so I graduated from a local school, fairlawn Schools Thought I'd stay on the farm the whole time, and within that process my brother, a graduate from Ohio State as a chemical engineer, talked me into coming over to Columbus.
Speaker 1:So I finished a four-year degree at Franklin in finance, got out of college, moved back home about what I anticipated, got into banking. So my last 17 years of my life has been in ag and commercial lending, and so that's what I've done for those past 17 years. And so I got a great experience of understanding cash flows and balance sheets and financials and just realizing that a good source of creating net worth was in the real estate market. And so, in that process, I think I bought my first home off my dad in 2004. And it was a place that I moved back to, lived to, start out and then got married there shortly after had kids and just continue to think of real estate as an opportunity to create wealth realistically. And so in that process, so I've got out of houses. You know the downturn in the market in 28 through 2012, roughly that was an opportunity to buy residential real estate.
Speaker 1:And that's where I began the process and I loved it. I enjoyed creating and building and you know I was a hands-on guy. So to get in there and fix things and build out space is where it's brought me today. And so in 2015, I bought the first property here in downtown Sydney, and that was an experience because, you know, residential you don't have as I don't want to say, as many building requirements, but when you get into commercial real estate, you definitely have to follow a different guidebook to what that looks like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so there's a lot of learning curve.
Speaker 2:Many of us have learned that the hard way.
Speaker 1:And it's a totally different ballgame Agreed. So for me, that first building, though, you know and we talked about the downtown and where you know pre-COVID and what USA downtowns look like they were starting to just kind of you know, talking to investors as a whole. You know, one of the things that I saw was just downtowns were not being the money that they were getting, they were not putting back into the facilities. It's almost like people were retirement age just kind of sucking out of it and then unloading that real estate to unweary investors. And so in 2015, when I bought the first space, you know I bring my dump trailer downtown and we'd park it on the square after hours.
Speaker 1:After the five o'clock shutdown, I just parked the dump trailer and start doing demo work, and I never got a call from the fire department, the police or anybody. They just kind of let it be because there was nobody downtown. It was like a ghost town. And so now that 2024, 2025, you look at downtown Sydney and it's not the same. I can't come downtown in the evenings and park a dump trailer. The town's filled up with traffic and people taking place and buying at the shops and eating at the restaurants. So it's a huge difference in just a short time frame of 10 years, and we have great city leadership with Andrew Boucher at the helm in Sydney, and so it's just neat to watch the process. It's been a really unique experience for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, how fascinating, I'm sure, to have that front row seat and to be part of that progress. Candidly, I know that you've been instrumental in just catalyzing some of these other projects Because, I mean, we've seen it in our town, we've seen it in others that we visited, where it just sometimes takes somebody doing something Correct and then others come alongside. There's some proof of concept, there's some momentum, one thing begets another and it's a really beautiful, virtuous cycle when you can get it started. But being on the forefront of that is risky, yes, and it's scary. So I mean, let's talk a little bit about that in terms of you know, it's 2015.
Speaker 2:There's not a whole lot going on house here. There's some legacy businesses. I mean I can tell just by walking by they've been there for many, many decades and that's so cool. But, as you mentioned, at five o'clock, a lot of those people they leave and there's not much going on. So, you know, for you to come in with vision of, of doing, you know, restaurant or apartments or some of these things that are like nobody else is doing. Tell me about that. Felt Were. You met with opposition, with excitement, with criticism. How did that go?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So one of the interesting parts for me was I talked about 08 and 12 and the housing decline of what existed in the housing market. Well, the commercial market did a similar scenario. It took a time, but you started to see it where there was vacancies on buildings and even storefronts, you know, let alone the second, third floors not having any occupants any longer. That took place in the late 80s and through the 90s, and then in the 2000s you started to see that when businesses would go out, maybe nobody filled a storefront, and so for me, I realized there was an opportunity. You know that you'd start to see some things hit the real estate market where it was for sale and you'd see a price and you're like that seems reasonable for the type of structure. So I do a walk to look like. So for me, businesses still wanted to be downtown. They just had to find a spot that fit their need, and what you could do is you could pick up properties at a relatively reasonable price at that time.
Speaker 1:Now it's changed significantly since 2015 to today and probably the same in your neck of the woods.
Speaker 1:Once people see it, it's like everything else Everybody thinks there's an opportunity for them, but the reality is is there's a lot of stress, there's a lot of capital needs and luckily again back to the banking background I saw I knew what I had as far as the real estate and so from the other end of that it was like, okay, if I can cash flow this, I can take some equity out of some other properties and start building this.
Speaker 1:So again, 2015 was the first property, but then I was on a yearly purchase almost there on after. So you know, take 10 years and there's 10 properties out there I've owned since 2015 that I've purchased since that time and just because the opportunity presented itself. And on the additional side of that is, I had investors that were here in town that that did want to be a part of. They just weren't sure what they wanted to do or how, but we had dollars here in Sydney that people were like you know what? We want to be a part of this growth. We want to be a storyteller and I was early in that. So I had some great partners that we've teamed up with since and they've been really just unbelievable on the wealth of knowledge, but also, you know, capital is a large part of this right.
Speaker 1:So for me, when you look at that, it's like okay, so if I get some investors that are on board, we can start to really snowball this into a really progressive opportunity to build out buildings. And so where we sit today 101 through 107, north Ohio the thing that happened so quickly here is I had one tenant when I bought this building. Today, this building is 100% occupied, and that's a big deal because it was just four storefronts at the time. But now we have four storefronts, two offices on the second floor and five apartments in this building, and that's that's a big to do. When those apartments were vacated, there was nothing there.
Speaker 1:So we got to those um and and the. You know the demo process, the, the drawings, the stamp drawings and all the processes to building. You know the building department, to working with the city management team and everything. It was a learning process, to say the least, but it was an experience that I value and that has allowed us to grow out from just this space into additional opportunities and create what I hope is an opportunity to find other investors that want to come down to downtown Sydney and just create and be part of the outreach and the build out of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So if you would maybe talk a little bit about teaming up with other investors. So oftentimes the way that things might go is that somebody with the time and the expertise may not have the money Correct and those with the money may not have the time nor the expertise, and so sometimes there can be a beautiful link up of those individuals and they can go and make something really significant happen. So it sounds like perhaps you know you had an element of that, and I think that so often those with the time and the expertise, or the, or at least the, the desire to make something happen in their own community, whether it's a new business, whether it's buying a building they don't know where to find those people, how to engage them in conversation. Would you share a little bit about how that process went for you?
Speaker 1:So I got lucky in this space. So this was building. This space was building number three of my space. So the first building I bought down at 115, which is currently going to be opening up as a new deli it was a pizzeria. That was the first space I bought. Um, luckily I had a W2 income that helped me, along with the farm. I had some income that allowed me to start on that space, but it was a sizable build out on a change of use building that turned into a restaurant from a storefront uh, just a boutique, essentially.
Speaker 2:So that was a learning experience in itself. Yeah, and for those that don't know, a restaurant build-out is probably the most expensive use type that you can do, so if you're looking to do your first project, maybe not something you would recommend.
Speaker 1:Agreed 100%.
Speaker 2:But you learned a lot through that process and lived it to the bottom.
Speaker 1:And so back to that story of this being the first one with a tenant.
Speaker 1:What we found was I was able to get the storefronts all rented.
Speaker 1:And then the investor group that came to me and I say investor group, it was just a couple guys that were interested in the downtown. They really saw an opportunity to put their legacy on the build out of downtown and saw what I was doing, knew me. We went out and had coffee, talked about it, and so those two individuals they said you know what, seth, we have that capital, we can bring together that piece of it. And it's just been a huge part of that because, again, when we start to look at these spaces I think last year and I'd have to look at the book specifically but between the five apartments upstairs and the exterior work, the storefront you see here we've got new glass storefront on our toy store and then on this real estate location we have a salon next door that also got a new storefront. So you know, we quickly got into a 1.4, 1.5 million of improvements and to get that cashflow we've got we need the a hundred percent occupancy that we talked about.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, that's right.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 1:But at the end of the day, I think having those individuals that were dedicated to the community I mean, when I see small town and I go visit the other communities around us, it seems as though the people that are from the area, that have a desire to be a part of that growth and that that story of the downtown, you know being able to get that capital and obtain it and have access to it.
Speaker 1:Get that capital and obtain it and have access to it, even if it's an internal loan with the business, you know, it's just a finding ways to have the right people Because, again one you know you get above a million dollars.
Speaker 1:You got to find a way to not only pay it back but you got to have the ability to show the bank that you, you can borrow those types of funds, and that's really what it comes down to. So when you ask the question, I think it is important for a young investor, or beginning investor for that matter, to know the cost or have a general concept of what you're going to be spending on some of these improvements and getting the drawings, which are just a starting point. It doesn't get you any better building, it doesn't make any changes, but you've got to have that stamp drawing to even get the ball rolling, and that in itself is a sizable dollar amount to not even not even do anything, right? So you just get the design and say this is what we want to do, and, and so that's. That's a big part of this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So, uh, to kind of unpack that a little bit, um, it sounds like these fellows that came to you, uh, they were not necessarily strictly looking for just a real estate investment. You know this was not about like, how can we get the largest ROI on our dollars. You know, we think this is it. It seems like it was yes, we do expect some return on investment, but we want to do this in a purposeful way, because we're local to the community, we believe in the community, we want to have some legacy here and we believe that partnering up with Seth would allow us to leverage those dollars in that way.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting because so one of the individuals, phil Gilardi, his family, started out downtown. They had a fruit and vegetable stand, and so to expand on that and I have most of the story, but I wish he was here to tell a little bit of it but here in town there's a company called was called Freshway Foods. That was the extension of Phil's family, as him as a child working the shop here in downtown, and then they expanded it to grow it into Freshway Foods, which was recently sold to US Foods, and that business is one of the investors. His CEO, devin Beer, is also another partner.
Speaker 1:So us three together exist as Gateway Funding Group, that's the entity that owns this real estate, and so those are the type of guys you need that have some ability to not only be a part of it. Because of where he started, you know his footprints are all around the square from when he was a kid, and so it's kind of a neat story, absolutely, and so those are the type of people that you have to not only know, but they make a big difference on the ability to make these things happen in a quick format, because one of the things I noticed as I was buying properties is the bank accounts. The capital that was there leaves pretty quickly.
Speaker 1:And you start to notice. You know like, okay, well, how do we start building up? Now that we've got these storefronts and cashflow, it starts to look good. But you know, you get to the second, third floor and you figure out we have a lot of construction costs within this and so now that bank account funds that were there suddenly are depleted and you're looking for, you know, the capital to continue on, and so having again those individuals really makes a big difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I've seen this story play out in a number of different communities where we've studied and made friends and you know, oftentimes that first project or two is bootstrapped.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean you're doing that with you know extra money you've saved, or maybe somebody you know cashes out part of retirement account, or I mean they're all in you know with, with taking their savings or that whatever, and and then also rolling back in any kind of you know income that they're getting from the property to try to accelerate it.
Speaker 2:But again, when you're dealing with that big of dollars, oftentimes an individual is just not able to do it with a velocity that you can get the momentum you know. And so teaming up, uh, obviously you know, made a huge impact for you. But you know, let me also kind of look at the other side of that coin, which is that you positioned yourself Well, you had proved your concept, you had done a successful project, and so these guys were not just like completely speculating when they, you know, teamed up with you and you know you had had that credibility that you'd built and also you had, you know, with your finance background and all of that you know, some real handle on what the costs are going to be, what this is going to take. We've got some plans like this is not just a dream, but you actually took that dream and put some work clothes on it and you know it looked like something that could be executed. At that point.
Speaker 1:You know I look back at my upbringing, and hard work on the farm is something that you're always just used to. You know you've got to go out and make things happen for yourself and find a way to put the work in. And so for me, getting these buildings, seeing the space. A lot of times when I get started, some people walk into a space and they see all the debris or all the roughness around the edges. They're like I don't see what this is going to be. Luckily for me, I consider myself to have some vision when I walk into a space. It may be the ugliest space you'll ever see, but I can walk in and say, oh, this is awesome.
Speaker 1:This is going to be exciting to see what happens here and that's, you know, from the dreamers to the doers. I think there's people out there that have that vision amongst many small towns able to visualize it. You know, you just have to find ways to to get that end goal and make it happen. And that was, for me, was always the big plan is is I see these buildings, I see this beautiful downtown Sydney's again born and raised? So for me, just knowing that I've been down here since I was a young kid walking the streets and it was to me it was like how do we bring this back to an experience for the, my kids? Cause I've got three kids of my own and you know they love coming in.
Speaker 1:I've got pictures when they were kids. You know we'll come in and I've got one of them with a hammer and I'm thinking that's probably not the best thing for a six or eight year old to have. But they, you know they get to spend time with me. We get to experience, you know, they get to experience the, an investor's dream. You know what we're doing and my hope is to instill with them is that these things are optional. You know, I don't figure there's a lot of kids out there that are growing up and their dad or mom's out there just buying buildings. You know, you know left and right and they're like what, what is dad?
Speaker 2:doing, you know, and so. I know a couple if yours uh, you know, think that it's so crazy. You know, I can introduce them to a couple.
Speaker 1:anyway, I get you, I get you, but that to me is even fun in itself. Is that the?
Speaker 1:kids get to experience, the work that it takes, but also you know, I'm building this in my mind, talking about that legacy is to build it and show them with hard work, with a little bit of time and effort and dollars, and you have to invest in the community. But what it brings out of it is now we have a downtown that's become vibrant and you know talking about parking there on the weekends or on the on the weeknights. That doesn't exist anymore. It doesn't. You can't, you can't just come downtown because it'd become it's become an economic hub again where it's a process of continuing to see that improvement. I've seen it over the past 10 years, realistically, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, as you've fixed up the building, you know, I mean, mean, just like I started out, I thought that when we bought eight buildings on one block of south main street in marion in 2018, that this was going to be like a construction project.
Speaker 2:You know, we could, you know, demo everything with. With the hammers, we'll bring the finished crews in and make it look pretty and you know the people will come. But, uh, there's a lot more to it. Uh, of course, as as I learned and as you've learned, but a big, big piece of that is recruiting and cultivating the right tenants and the right tenant mix. And I know that you've been really intentional because, especially as you're going, you know, kind of through that early stages of development, it can be really tempting to just take whoever's got the dollars in their hand, and it's not necessarily the ones that are going to bring the vibrancy to the downtown. You know, as we talked about, you know, building out a restaurant space is not only really difficult, but it's really expensive. It would be much easier to have just put another attorney office in that space, because that's what was all around.
Speaker 2:And those guys you know. I mean that they, you know, might've rented it and been able to get you on your path to an ROI, but it wasn't going to create what you wanted. So you know how did you go about that Looking for the right tenants, dreaming of what would be right for the space, and then finding those individuals to bring them to the space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's a great question and we talked in our last event over in Urbana. You know Jason Duff was there and early on in my experience I knew what Jason was doing in Bellefountain and he and I got an opportunity to meet quarterly you know, semi-annually very often early on because I wanted to see what he was doing. Like we talked earlier, it's almost like the gold standard over there with Jason. Like we talked earlier, it's almost like the gold standard over there with Jason. So talk to him as often as we could just to pick his brain. He came to a few events here in Sydney at the library and discussed in front of the chamber and other economic development partners and just trying to figure out what's the process no-transcript tenant that you can get for another three, five, 10 years. I mean the best thing I can have happen is recruit, get the best placement and have them for the longterm Well turnover brings out the critics too Like oh yeah, we knew this wasn't going to work as a stupid idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, agreed, agreed.
Speaker 1:So today I had some investors that were here from the Troy market and so we were walking around and I took them. So in this space next door we have a business here in town. It's called Moonflower Aromatherapy and they sell essential oils and Betsy O'Leary is the owner and operator of that business and she started out at the farmer's market which we have right here on the square. It starts in late April, goes all the way through October, and so some businesses start out at that just to try to learn what their market is. Can they be? It's almost like a feasibility study Can we be operational, can we make enough sales to have labor, overhead, utilities, costs, insurance, whereas if you're just at the farmer's market in a stand, you know that thing. You're there on Saturday, you're gone on Saturday, there's no additional fees, there's no additional costs.
Speaker 1:But she started out next door. She went over the across the street to another building. I have, and it has has been. I forget what she said today I even asked her. I think she's on year six, maybe seven, of operations and has a fantastic shop. But the point of the story is, is that in that process the question you ask is just finding viable businesses that have the ability to operate and sell a product that is useful to the downtown, the marketplace that you represent, and and trying to find a way to. You know, every time I do a tour, I take people through that space Like I didn't even know this was here.
Speaker 1:You know, you hear that a lot when you take people through spaces didn't know this was here.
Speaker 1:So now I try to tell people when you walk through a space well, come back, visit her sometime. If you need something for a holiday, a birthday, you know, please take it to your wife and see what you can have. Make that happen. And because sales to a small business is how. That's just the way the system works. You know, we got to find ways to spend dollars and bring people downtown, and so for me to recruit was very intentional. We would love to have more boutiques and more restaurants and more foot traffic downtown, because when you come downtown and a place like Sydney and you see the green space around the courthouse and I've got some pictures from when I've left a job site in the sun setting and it's unbelievable and so for me, just that passion to see people be successful I mean I want to be successful, but I love when my tenants are successful to me.
Speaker 1:That's a key component.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that certainly resonates. It's something that we've been really passionate about because, you know, I mean just as I mean it's truly like this kind of symbiosis where, just as the tenants are often very grateful for us kind of taking a risk with them and trying to help them through the different way I know you've done the same like just trying to do some some coaching and trying to make sure the space is right for them and just setting them up for success as much as possible, you know, taking people on tours and taking them through their space and just raising awareness and doing all of those things. In the same way, I mean we feel grateful to them because they took a risk on, you know, coming into a market and doing something that hadn't been proven, yes, and just really going after their dream. I mean it's inspirational and I mean it's what gets me up in the morning, and I'm sure you as well where it's just like you know, they are the heartbeat of our community, these small businesses, and we want to do everything we can to help them.
Speaker 2:Of course, at the same time they've got to, you know, work hard to help themselves, but you know one gets going and then another can come. And then by you know, pretty soon you look up and there's a district, and now that's when you started to get the momentum. When did you start to see that here in Sydney, like when was it kind of was? Did you feel like there was a certain time when there was a tipping point or where you kind of looked around and you're like I think this might actually work? I think, you know, it's become more than just like kind of my pipe dream. It seems like it's becoming reality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's. It's interesting that you ask it, because the one thing that was difficult early on in the process is knowing that the town was, to a certain extent and I know Jason uses a similar term, but it was almost so it was dying, and to me it took a while because at first I thought, man, am I spending money on something that just doesn't have the capacity to continue to improve and grow, like I think? And so 2015, bought the building, started the process, and again options coming up where the downtown, just real estate hitting the market, so bot, bot, bot. And then I thought am I overextending here on buildings and I don't even have the ones I have filled? And so to me, uh, right after COVID, you know, people started to come back to their communities because I think, whether you were in suburbia, usa, um, it felt like people that were raised in small town, usa said you know what um-COVID they're like. I think I want to go back to where I started, you know, with the family and friends that I have.
Speaker 1:And so we saw an increased desire for downtown space, real estate space, and when that happened, I thought, okay, this is now making sense. I feel like there is this traction for a development component where downtown will have an opportunity to rebuild it or rebrand itself and people want to be down here. So I think that's when I started to see that potential. And then we had again. I was talking about management, of city management for that matter, and county community members involved that wanted to see this happen. So there was, everybody started to collaborate. We started to see meetings within the community that we're talking about, whether it's grants or funding or tax credits or just finding who the investors were and who had dollars to be a part of it.
Speaker 1:And so the banks. It's funny, working at a bank it was one of my co-workers, a boss of mine, you know from Sydney, his whole life, and Dan, he had said I would have never guessed in downtown Sydney we would see the appraisals, we would see the desired demand to be back down in that market town Sydney, we would see the appraisals, we would see the desire demand to be back down in that market. And they actually almost stopped lending, you know, because there was the buildings they just felt like were, from a collateral standpoint, really what they'd really want to have in the portfolio there. So they kind of held off. But as they continue to see the appraisals come back differently and the the the amount of investment that people were willing to put into it.
Speaker 1:I think it changed a lot of the banking from small town. You know, small community banks are another lifeline for the neighborhoods that they operate in and so for me that was a big start of seeing that, that transition right. So when the banks were willing to be a part, when the investor groups, when the community leadership, whether it's council or the commissioners, the mayor, the city manager, you know, that's when I saw that transition to me and that's been within the last five years for sure, here in Sydney.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so you're talking five, six, maybe seven years in is really where you started to see that Obviously COVID was a bit of a wrinkle in there, agreed, probably, you know, good in some ways and bad in some ways. But yeah, that's fascinating. And to hear the banking angle, definitely have felt that and talked with others who have as well. You know I often encourage people that if they go to one bank and they get shot down, that doesn't mean you know that there isn't another bank or lender of some sort out there that's willing to take a flyer on a project. So you know, different banks have different appetites for different types of things as time goes on in their portfolio, as you mentioned, and so, and sometimes they've got to see a little more proof in the pudding before they're willing to jump in.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, really fascinating kind of listening to that timeline. And again, it mirrors very similarly what I've heard in some other communities. I think what we've experienced I mean, we're about six and a half years in to our projects in downtown Marion and I think are, you know, starting to really feel a lot of that momentum as well. So really cool. I wanted to have you talk a little bit about the winter market. Yeah, and what you're doing in one of your buildings with this winter market idea, where that genesis of the idea came from and what impact that's had.
Speaker 1:That's one of the more exciting things here recently that we've had happen. Andrew Spade is an investor with that building and he's a realtor. He's a younger guy. He's spent most of his time in the residential realm but recently, kind of because of the growth of the downtown and he just being a part of it, we've had an opportunity to team up and so our downtown uh, when you look out the window here there's the court square and that's where we have our farmer's market.
Speaker 1:From about that April, may, all the way through October, the whole courthouse on Saturday mornings is just packed with with local vendors. And so one of the things that popped up is we were we were brainstorming our downstairs basement at 110 East Poplar. Murphy's Crab Barn Kitchen is the mainstay, it's the. It's the high hotspot to be for lunch and dinner, but our basement has a lot of offices. We did to walk through earlier and so for us we were like, what do we do? We put these on the MLS, they don't hit. We put them on social media. Not a lot of traffic. We were still trying to figure out are people still in that work from home type of scenario, talking about COVID a little bit no-transcript, not a farmer's market, but we call it the winter market. So in that downstairs they put some feelers out and we had, I think they had 26 applications for vendors and we only had room for, I think, 12. So since we started that about five weeks ago, they've done it ever since and it's just been amazing because the component of the economic impact just in the building, let alone the downtown, is we see that on Friday and Saturday when they have that event, the foot traffic for the restaurant picks up immensely. We walk through the arcade up on the second floor and I think, at the end of the day, just creating that ecosystem of businesses that create an opportunity for one to hand off to the other. It's kind of a neat scenario.
Speaker 1:So the Winter Market is in the basement of the Murphy Building. The Murphy Building was a five and dime, that's how it's got its name. But long story short, they set up, they posted on social media. It's had a great following. It's kind of a unique scenario because that farmer's market that's not there in the winter is kind of its own little event. So they come and bring clothes, boutique stuff, hand-built items, and so for me, I think what we've found good and bad is.
Speaker 1:The good thing is it's a very needed item in the winter. The problem is is, because of the uptick in traffic, we've started to fill those spaces. So now we have what was vacant space that we're trying to figure out how to fill it. Now they're filling it because of the people coming through it and so we're actually filling with long-term tenants, which is great. The downside is now we have this market that we actually would like it to be a part of our downtown. So we have to find a vacant space or find some type of vacant lot where we can build a facility to carry that market, because we think that that is a viable, usable opportunity in the winter months here in downtown and it brings traffic right. So if we had a larger space and could make it a larger event, you could almost bring anywhere between. You know, if there are 26 applications, we could probably do that on a weekly basis, on the weekends, and try to figure out a business model that would create an opportunity there for the community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean I really love that on a lot of levels. I mean just first for the level of collaboration and just the dreaming and the foresight to say like, hey, there's this space, the dreaming and the foresight to say like, hey, there's, this is space. We've got people that have wares to sell and and just to be able to connect those, and then you know it is a great building, a great space.
Speaker 2:And you know kind of a unique situation there where you walk into the restaurant but there's this like kind of big open staircase that goes down to that first level, so the visibility is very good, and then kind of the interplay back and forth between those spaces to be able to drive, you know, food and beverage and then shopping, and you know, so really cool. You know, you've kind of created your own little cracker barrel of sorts there and with the, the, the combination of shopping and dining, but uh, really cool. So, yeah, thanks for sharing about that. I think that's a man, that's a model that a lot of communities could implement. You've got vacant spaces, you've got unutilized space, or maybe it's something that is technically occupied, but maybe it's not occupied seven days a week. So you know, maybe it's a, it's an office environment, or it's a coworking something or it's whatever that is. You know, at five o'clock on Friday is not used for the next 42 hours or 48 hours, and so it could be utilized as something else.
Speaker 1:Well, it's. It's neat because to me, the one thing that I've I've found is is is a large brick and mortar space that has a certain monthly rate, right. So we all know what we'd like to get ROI, looking at the numbers, we need that to get this space operational. But in that situation we were already vacant. It was vacant and not used and we were struggling to find filled tenant space with it. So when they came to us, it's like well, you know, I'll tell you what you guys run it. This is what we're looking at. You know we.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I'll tell you what you guys run it. We'll, we'll. This is what we're looking at. You know, we currently don't have any tenants. So you tell us, you set the rent rates and we're just going to see how it goes, and so that's, that's brought a ton of traffic to us, and then we have started to fill them long-term. But it's, at the end of the day, to me it's, you know, talking about that ecosystem earlier, starting out on the square at the farmer's market. That's where she began, and she's now six years strong into her business model.
Speaker 1:We would love to find that little startup that's thinking I've got a product, it sells great, but I just don't know if I want to take that leap yet. All right, well, let's start here, and everybody's got a learning process. We've got to figure out what works for a small business, but know that there's this little market that we can get you into and test your theory and try it for a year, you know, and then go back to the square and go to the farmer's market. But once you feel good and you feel like this is an opportunity, we'd love to have you in one of our spaces Because again, the boutiques, the small businesses you know again back to the attorneys and the accountants and the real estate businesses appreciate them all. I mean, I think they're all fantastic, but would love to have the amount of foot traffic that brings the boutiques and the people downtown to walk and see the square and go to the restaurants and just the theater that's around the corner.
Speaker 2:That's a staple here, just a huge asset to the community. But finding that foot traffic is the big key yes, yes, it is, but those are some great, great tactics. I mean I just think that's an excellent model. I just think that's an excellent model. I've heard of other communities that have filled a lot of storefronts, ultimately starting with a farmer, so with a big space that we had that wasn't being consistently used, and then that did lead to relationships, led to people that were proving their concepts and led to some storefronts. So, just getting that ball rolling, it's a great opportunity on the small business side for them to try a concept, to put themselves out there in a really low risk, low cost type of scenario. And from a landlord standpoint, you know, you're able to kind of find some people that might make great tenants, especially if you have, like some starter make great tenants, especially if you have, like some starter smaller spaces. What a great way to kind of get them to stair step on up into a brick and mortar opportunity. So, yeah, really, really great model to follow there. So, man Seth, I know we could, we could talk all day about this stuff and you've provided some, some great insights and value and I really appreciate being able to hear more of your story and I'm looking forward to tomorrow checking out more of your spaces, and so it's going to be a great time here in Sydney. We're going to be talking to some other folks, so the next couple episodes we've got a little Sydney series that'll be going on here. So for folks tuning in, please tune back in and continue to learn along with me as I'm meeting and deepening relationship with folks here in Sydney.
Speaker 2:So a couple of final things here, Seth. So one thing is just I love to always ask guests if there's been any kind of like educational or inspirational resource that you found along the way. That is really kind of something that you go back to to help you. You know whether it's through some of those you know trying times or something that's really helped propel you past some challenges, or is there anything that comes to mind?
Speaker 1:you know, for me the thing here is in sydney is there's such a collaborative group that, whether it be the city manager, he's got, he's invested in the downtown so he understands what it takes, whether it be with the building department, whether it be through just the general regulations that take place. But I feel like there's a good group of people here regionally, yourself included in that. I mean I appreciate being a part of the group that I was able to attend out in Urbana. Tomorrow is going to be a great day. But I think having those individuals that have a similar mindset is often the hardest thing.
Speaker 1:Because I have great friends, I have good relations. But sometimes I'll talk to my friends and they just kind of initially, when you talk about and show them through some of the older buildings, they look at you like what are you doing? Why would you spend money on something that's you know nothing's happening downtown? But all of a sudden you know here is a recent when we get these things fixed up and we walk through and their eyes kind of get real big and they're like I didn't ever guess this would look like this.
Speaker 1:I never thought that Sydney downtown would be this economically stable now, where it was kind of a detriment to the downtown. It's completely changed. And I'm not patting myself on the back. What I'm saying is there's people like us, all over the communities, that have the hope to bring life renewed downtown, and to do that you have to have some vision, you have to have the right investors, the right friends, the right mindset, Because there's long nights, there's long days, there's a lot of processes that take place, but there's nothing specific Talking about Jason. Jason's been great for the process Again just bouncing ideas off. Individuals like yourself and the others of this group that just give you some real life experiences you know, because it can be.
Speaker 1:You know, ask my wife, I'm sure she can tell you some stories of, of just relationship. You know, when you come home and the, the, the, the amount of work, the amount of capital, the amount of debt, um it's. It can be stressful at times making sure the spaces are filled, that the cashflow makes sense and that you're not writing a check out of your children's college funds you know to make these things happen.
Speaker 1:So again, as much as my kids love coming with me, I do expect and want to be successful for them and their growth and their longevity. But I think to do it you just have to take in all the information you can try to process and know that it's everybody wants to be a part of the solution. But you got to find ways to figure out who the right people are to connect with in those moments, yeah, yeah, absolutely there's.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of good folks out there and again, especially in this space, if you're somebody that's looking to do this sort of work, I mean you know guys like you know, like Seth, like myself, jason Duff, andy Warnock. You know others that we'll have on on future episodes that are doing this work. I mean we're all doing it for the same reason and that is the community impact and really trying to drive vitality for our communities where we live Agreed.
Speaker 2:You know, similar to you. It's like this is where I'm raising my family Exactly, and we have deep roots here and we're not going anywhere, and so we want this to be a community we'd be proud of, and I know I've heard you say that, and so so, yeah, there's people out there reach out and tap into those resources. So, really well said. So, folks want to follow along with any of your projects in Sydney. How can they do that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we have a couple of websites. One is the Gateway Funding Group. That's a website that we have out there that has all our layout of our office space as well as our apartments, and I think I mentioned most of our apartments are currently filled. So it's a lot of opportunity. That's the quickest way is Gateway Funding Group and it's com, I believe. But anything else is just search us online, follow us on Facebook Again, gateway Funding. We also GC Murphy's is you got a Murphy on the square?
Speaker 1:Is the one for the Murphy building. So that's that's there as well on Facebook. And you know, at the end of the day, if you do a quick Google search me. Uh, just like today, you know I'm, I'm, I'm happy to meet up. I love show. There's nothing that excites me more than showing space off. I know that seems probably weird to most people, but when you've built the type of portfolio that we have, I get so much enjoyment from bringing people down because they've been to small towns across the state. They've seen probably some of the dilapidated buildings and, and you know you bring them in. I've got pictures all over my phone of construction projects, of of the first start, of what the building might've looked like and then take them to the final, the final process, and look, and they're often just like. I can't even imagine what this was like.
Speaker 1:I'm like you would imagine how many dump trailers got pulled out of this place just to take to the dump, and then we rebuild it as what you see today, and that's the fun part, but yeah, that's the best way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, love it. Thanks again, seth man. I uh, I really appreciate so much of what you talked about resonates and uh, I know that uh, listeners in in in this group and this space are really going to resonate with it as well.
Speaker 1:Appreciate it. Thanks again.
Speaker 2:And to our listeners. Thanks so much for being with us. We really appreciate you continuing to tune in and I hope that you will share this with someone else who could find some value, who could use the education, the inspiration, and we'll keep doing it. We'll be back with another episode here real soon. Thanks for listening to the Main Street Reimagined podcast. To learn more about Main Street Reimagined Henry Development Group or our work in downtown Marion, ohio, please visit mainstreetreimaginedcom. If you want to connect or if you know someone who we need to interview, shoot us an email at info at mainstreetreimaginedcom. Until next time, keep dreaming and don't be afraid to take the leap.