Savvy European Travel: Where Culture Meets Value

Ready to discover Europe's most affordable and authentic destinations? This week, celebrated travel experts Kathleen Peddicord and Kat Kalashian reveal their top budget-friendly European cities perfect for solo female travelers. From enchanting coastal towns to historic mountain villages, learn where your travel dollars stretch further without sacrificing rich cultural experiences.

Perfect for women seeking authentic European experiences without the premium price tag, this episode transforms seemingly expensive European dreams into achievable adventures. Learn why these under-the-radar destinations offer the perfect blend of culture, safety, and value for solo travelers.

Join us for destination-specific insights that will revolutionize how you plan your European adventure. Whether you're drafting your first solo itinerary or seeking fresh destinations for a girls' trip, let Kathleen and Kat guide you to Europe's most rewarding yet affordable corners.

Transcript

Savvy Budget-Friendly European Travel: Where Culture Meets Value

[00:00:00] Dreaming of sipping espresso in a quaint Italian piazza? Or strolling along the cobblestone streets of a charming French village, but worried that your travel budget won't stretch that far? Well, think again. Today we're joined by international living expert Kathleen Petticord and her daughter, Kat Kalashian.

Kathleen has crisscrossed the globe for over 35 years in search of the best retirement havens. She's here to reveal her top 10 budget-friendly European destinations, promising La Dolce Vita without breaking the bank. From hidden Mediterranean gems to unexpected Eastern European treasures, Kathleen and Kat's insider tips might just have you packing your bags for an affordable European adventure.

Stay tuned as we unlock the secrets to living your best life abroad without compromising your wallet. 

[00:01:13] Well, hello and welcome lovely listeners. I'm your co-host Nicky Omohundro and I'm Heide Brandes. And I can hardly contain my excitement about today's episode. You know, life has a funny way of opening new chapters just when you're ready for them.

Next summer, I'm celebrating two major milestones, one being an empty nester and another hitting a big one. I'll be 50 next year. In a previous episode, we had my friend, Michelle Marine come on and talk about her 50th milestone birthday, where she went to Paris to go see Taylor Swift with her extended family.

I love that episode. Yeah, it's a great one. So definitely check that out, I'm not planning a quiet little party. I want to go big, just like Michelle did. Passports are going to be involved. I'm dreaming big, thinking of cobblestone streets, charming cafes and breathtaking European vistas.

But I have to do it without emptying my savings account. That's why we're thrilled to have Kathleen, the queen of budget friendly international living. So Kathleen Petticord and her daughter Kat Kalashian. They're back with us today. 

Last week, she was here talking about retiring overseas, and today they're going to take us on a whirlwind tour of the top affordable European destinations.

That could be the perfect setting for my, and maybe your next great adventure. Can't wait. So are you ready to dream? Plan and maybe take the next leap. Let's dive right in and welcome Kathleen and Kat to the podcast.

Ladies. It's great to have you here today. Thanks for having us. 

Today we're going to be talking about budget friendly European destinations, but kathleen, before we dive into your top list, can you tell us what criteria you use to determine which European destinations are truly budget friendly?

[00:03:03] Of course, budget is such a tough thing, what's expensive to one is can be a bargain to someone else. It all has to do with your perspective . If you're living in Manhattan most of the world is going to seem affordable. If you're living in a small town in the Midwest, much of the world's going to be legitimately more expensive. 

We, have come up with starter budgets because What's important to you, how you want to spend your money, how local you want to go, that's a big factor in going to be in another part of the world. If you're going to live like the locals, your cost is going to be much less.

You know, that's a great point when you can stay locally, you don't have to pay the high price of hotel fees, trying to get that monthly discount is a great way to go. If you can actually cook in your accommodations, that saves a huge amount of money. Cause I know for me, other than my airline ticket, food is one of my highest expenses.

I would say that just avoiding tourist zones for things like eating is the top way to save money. You wanna go to the big tourist sites, right? You wanna go to Paris? You wanna go to Rome. The way to be able to afford them is to step off the beaten path a little bit. 

If you're going to a local neighborhood where you shop at the local markets and spend your time in the way that the locals do, your cost is going to be very controlled. 

We look at a two bedroom apartment for rental, a modest budget for groceries, entertainment and transportation. Then we look at maybe what the cost of a car would be, but that's again another choice. 

[00:04:31] So in much of Europe, you're in a city with excellent public transport buses, trams, metros biking, and walking are viable options. The fact that Europe is so compact on so many levels, can be a shock to Americans who are used to driving everywhere. The fact that you don't need a car can be a big budget saver. Add to that the fact that public transport and cross-country travel often have discounts for those over 60 or 65, depending on the country.

A lot of people I know go around the continent house-sitting or pet-sitting, so it can be a really easy way to spend a month there relatively cheaply. there are many services that do this and you can live for free in a city that you really like for a little bit, get to know it see if it's for you long term. 

Airbnb often will make you a better deal if you're spending more than just a week or two. If you find a place you like, ask them, are you willing to rent it for a month or two at a lower rate? Many cities or countries have their own local version of a house sharing company and you can look at the different neighborhoods and see which are a little bit more affordable. The ones in the heart of the tourist centers are going to be much more expensive. But if there's a place, a few blocks away, where you can get using public transportation for just a couple of euros . 

[00:05:43] Now, last week, we talked about retiring overseas and some of the best places. Kat, Kathleen, what are the top European destinations that you recommend for women to travel slowly on a budget?

 So I start with Spain. Spain was actually the number one. Valencia, Spain is like a mini Barcelona wonderful culture, completely walkable or bikeable, great public transportation. It doesn't have a direct flight from the U. S., so that's maybe one little extra hassle or expense. But you can fly into Barcelona and get either a train or drive down to Valencia. But really, Valencia is much cheaper than Barcelona. But as I say, it's basically got everything that Barcelona has going for it. It's just a little bit further down the coast and not such a tourist hotspot yet.

It is becoming one, but for now until a couple years ago, nobody heard English on the streets being spoken and certainly not an American accent. You might have heard a couple of Brits, but the Americans really hadn't found it yet. Now we are on the cusp of finding it. So for Spain, that's my best alternative Valencia, which is on the Southern coast. It's got a temperate climate year round, fantastic arts and culture scene and just a really pleasant place to spend time. 

[00:06:56] Murcia, which is a kind of unknown city on Spain's southern coast is a great place for really low budget. This is a totally off the radar kind of place. This isn't a tourist spot. It's not an expat hotspot yet. You can definitely go carless. 

[00:07:11] I have pick for France, which is called La Rochelle. It's on the Atlantic coast. So it's a sea focused city. Lots of boating, lots of seafaring activity. Really gorgeous little city with great transportation, walkable boatable, obviously if you're into boats and water sports.

A very cute nautical town that is a bargain for what you're getting there in terms of a like gorgeous sunny, nearly 300 days of sunshine per year. Very sunny part of France. And much cheaper than you would get, for example, on the Mediterranean coast. Although it would be a bit cooler, because it's a bit further north. 

[00:07:47] Budapest is my number three pick definitely another city where you could go carless, where you can walk a lot, there's plenty of public transportation it's a river city, the river runs right through it, it's an absolutely gorgeous city and the food, the beer especially, is extremely cheap. If you're into happy hours to go out and meet expats, that's a good way to do it in Budapest.

[00:08:10] Northern Cyprus is another one of our top picks for living cheap. This is at the farthest end of the Mediterranean. The big downside is that it's the toughest to get to. It's going to be the longest commute from North America. But once you get there, it's an English speaking Mediterranean island. It doesn't get any more quintessentially Mediterranean than northern Cyprus or Cyprus in general. Amazing food, the cuisine is a blend of Greek and Turkish. It's very affordable. And it is sunny year round, warm weather year round. Yet, there is a mountain range where you can go skiing. 

[00:08:41] In Italy, my top pick is the Abruzzo region. The city on the coast there is Pescara. The main city and more of a big town than a city. What's really interesting about this region, which is directly east of Rome, it's about a two hour drive, so it's a very easy to get to because you can get many international flights directly into Rome, and then take a quick drive across the calf of Italy. 

And you get to Abruzzo and there are mountains, you can go skiing in the morning and go swimming in the afternoon. That's how close the mountains and the sea are. You can, customize your elevation for the kind of weather or humidity you'd like. It's an adaptable place to live. Lots of benefits to living in this part of Italy. Wonderful food as well, of course. 

[00:09:25] That's your big dream, to eventually end up living in Italy. Yes it is, that goal for me is three years. So I'd be great. Digital nomad visa was definitely something that was interesting. Was actually looking at the Torino region because it was not too far of a public transit commute to the Milan airport. Obviously I'm going to need an airport and a bus station. I don't plan on renting a car. 

[00:09:52] We would also say Croatia is a good pick for more affordable living. This shares the Adriatic coastline with Italy. It's almost [00:10:00] the same as what you would be getting on the eastern side of Italy. But at a fraction of the cost the beaches there aren't quite as nice. They're a bit more rocky than sandy, but Great culture. And some great walkable cities. Dubrovnik is the capital. A wonderful place to spend time or live. 

[00:10:17] And Croatia is actually on my list. I learned about Split from a press trip that I wasn't able to make last year. Kat recommends Dubrovnik rather than Split, but the pictures I've seen are absolutely stunning. 

I'm surprised you weren't packing your bags already for the Ambosso region in Pescara, Italy.

[00:10:36] In Greece the outlying parts of Athens, so like the suburbs of Athens, we know an expat there who is loving life, rents a massive apartment for half of what she paid here in Paris and, it's sunny all the time, warm all the time very affordable. And in these suburbs of Athens, because I don't necessarily recommend Athens itself, the suburbs can be really idyllic. 

I was there last summer/ fall, I went just after Thanksgiving and stayed through early December and the suburbs were great. We got to dig in with the locals. We had some great local food. I remember one of my favorite places was this place that literally translated was good cheap eats.

[00:11:16] Look where locals are eating, listen to the people talking at the cafe. Any place with a menu that's translated into 20 languages or has pictures, don't eat there. It's gonna be a rip off. 

Corfu Island, if you're into island living, that's another good option for affordable living.

[00:11:31] For women new to travel, especially international travel. A big worry is not being able to speak the language. How do you get around that in some of these places that you recommend? 

One of the best answers to that question is something that is might seem unlikely coming from me because I'm not into tech very much, but there are these great language apps, I was recently traveling in Turkey and able to use a translation app on my phone. I've used it in China and places where there was no chance I was going to be able to communicate in the local language in Thailand, for example, I'm not learning to speak Thai. I don't speak Mandarin and it's even hard to read signs and interpret, signage and even restaurant menus, et cetera. Translation apps, I think can be really helpful. What you'll find in places where the language is very foreign, the more exotic the language, the more common the use of translation apps is becoming.

[00:12:29] So when I would go into a shop in Turkey, for example, this summer I would walk up to the counter often. The person behind the counter would pull out their phone with the translation app open. In other words, type in here what you want to say to me and I'll be able to read it on my phone without any prompting.

I would say at least in countries where it is possible, there are countries where the language is difficult. Or the alphabet for example is different that it might be a pie in the sky kind of idea to try and learn. But I always say they're the five magic words that you should at least make an attempt to learn before arriving in a place hello, goodbye, please. Thank you. And excuse me If you can at least have them somewhere, in your brain when you're talking to people you'll get a lot of goodwill. You'll ingratiate yourself to the population rather than instantly coming off as entitled.

If you walk into a store or a restaurant at least say hello and thank you in the local language, people will probably receive you better than if you ignore the fact that they don't speak English as a mother tongue.

[00:13:30] Kat, what have been some of your favorite places you would recommend the most and why?

Paris, I actually went to high school in Paris and it was my lifelong dream to get back here. So that's definitely number one. But Barcelona is probably my second favorite city in the world. I absolutely love it. If I move from Paris, I think the next move will be to Barcelona. My husband and I have talked about getting a holiday home just off the coast there.

I also love pretty much every Italian city I've been to, except for Venice, which is beautiful, but not really a viable place to spend time. Milan and Rome, I absolutely love. The countrysides, are very alluring. But really, I like any place that is a real city.

I'm absolutely a city girl. I don't like small towns. I don't like being in the countryside too long. And I like having water nearby. So Paris, it's not a seafront city, but there's a river running through it. Budapest, not on a coastline, but it has a river running through it. For some reason, maybe it's because I grew up on the east coast around boats and water a lot I need there to be a source of water nearby. It's kind of an odd answer to your question, but almost any city on a coastline will get my attention. 

[00:14:38] For a lot of women, myself included Europe is a dream destination and there are so many amazing places to visit. Safety of course, is a big concern, especially for solo female travelers or those going to a destination for the first time. In your experience, which European budget locations are particularly safe and welcoming for women who are traveling or living alone?

I really can't jump in. Sorry, not to cut you off. I'll just jump in to say I have trouble thinking of European Western European destinations. I guess if we stay with Western Central Europe that aren't safe. I think maybe to frame the conversation that way, there really aren't places that come to mind that aren't safe.

There are specific neighborhoods in any city in the world, including Baltimore, where I grew up, where you don't want to be at two o'clock in the morning as a woman alone because that would just be foolish. But for the most part, anywhere you're going to travel in Western Central Europe, even as a woman alone, you're really generally safe.

[00:15:46] What would you say specifically, Kat? 

I was gonna say the exact same thing, that it's hard to think of any place that isn't safe. As you say, crime exists, so you want to avoid the bad neighborhoods, ask around, know where not to go. I've been pickpocketed a few times here in Paris, but there's never any violent crime here. It is entirely possible to do this as a single female. I travel almost exclusively by myself to do my scouting trips, to write our reports and to find new places and I've never felt unsafe. 

Last time I was in Barcelona, we were told to stay out of El Raval. Don't go there. A dozen people must have told us to stay out of that neighborhood. We, this is my husband Two or three year old daughter, plus another family with a two or three year old daughter were going out to dinner, we walked home to our Airbnb, and ended up going through El Raval.

We had no idea we had been there, and so we looked at the map afterwards, but there was absolutely nothing there that would have given me pause. I saw women alone on the street, I saw families walking home from dinner, and this is around 11 or midnight, because Spaniards eat dinner very late. Sometimes people can get things a little bit out of proportion.

Spain has had a history of machismo violence. This is going back several years now. For example, Pamplona where there's the running of the bulls had a kind of scandalous issue a few years back. It's been a big campaign throughout the country to protect women. Latin cultures can be a little bit more machismo you'll hear comments on the street, like wolf whistles or, Hey, good looking, whatever it is. It's not necessarily as threatening as it might be in the U S. Latino cultures Compliment women and women locally see it as a compliment other women might take it as a threat or something offensive.

So there is a cultural difference. I would say in italy in greece in spain women aren't standing for it anymore.

[00:17:37] Men are being taken to court more and there are, massive signs all over the country declaring, women are safe here. So that was quite a few years ago. I would say that might be the only thing that I would think of as a concern is that if you're in a big party atmosphere, like the running of the bulls and you're drunk and walking home alone, maybe not the safest thing, but it just comes down to being a little bit smart, being a little bit wary, keeping your wits about you.

As Kathleen said, there are a lot of places in the U S you wouldn't want to be as a woman alone at night. And I think it's the same anywhere in the world.

I completely agree with that. I've been in the New York City subway, in the middle of the day, perfectly fine. At night, same thing. It's just when there's people around, don't go down a dark alley by yourself at 2 o'clock in the morning, even where we live here.

As Kathleen was saying, it's so much easier now to to get connected with the local community or the local environment. You can call a taxi, call an Uber a lot of those ride sharing apps are universal now you have Uber on your phone, you can use that overseas to call a ride quickly.

[00:18:42] What in your experience have been some creative ways to immerse yourself in a culture when you're visiting for the first time, let's say if you're traveling solo and you want to meet new people, what are some good tips that you've found useful?

There are so many meetup apps now. Meetup is literally an app that you can download and find people to meet up with usually along the lines of interest, or perhaps they're just conversation exchange. So if you're trying to learn the language, for example you'll find a local that can speak with you in their language and then you'll speak with them in your language and you do an exchange there.

So meetup apps are definitely the best way. Facebook groups are very active in expat communities. Instagram might be a better way to go because you can tell when people are traveling somewhere, so you can, pinpoint people that are in your location.

But for people that actually are already living there or spending a good amount of time there, Facebook is a great resource. And I would say the number one way to meet people is to follow your passions or whatever your main interest is in life. When I moved to Paris and I had a baby, My entire social circle became mothers with babies, my husband meets people who like to watch football.

The libraries are a great resource. Usually big cities have English speaking libraries, whether it's an American or British library. I think that's [00:20:00] probably the best way is online these days. The best place to find other people that might share your interests.

[00:20:05] Now you did mention expat communities. If someone were to visit. And do maybe a little bit of slow travel and spend a few weeks. Are there any destinations on your list that have a thriving expat community that you would recommend?

For sure. Any large city and any capital city. Part of that is just that those are the nice places to spend time. Retirees will target them as well. A lot of it also comes from workers. Whether it's digital nomads that choose the city for its business amenities or people working for a multinational, half the expats I know here, probably more than half who live here in Paris, who I'm friends with.

It's that they're their husbands work for a multinational based in Paris, and they're on contract here. Any capital city is going to have the highest rate so Paris has probably more than a million expats living here. Madrid and Barcelona, both Milan is a huge, they say that there are more foreigners in Milan than Italians and that no one is actually born in Milan. They all go to Milan. So it's a completely foreigner based city, even among Italians. 

Budapest surprisingly does have an expat community. And really you'll find them anywhere. If you're looking for high concentrations, go for the big cities, but again, I will say Facebook is the best resource here and you can type in any number of variations.

So for example, we know an ex pat couple who live currently in Montenegro. You might think you'd have time finding the other fellow foreigners there. But I guarantee if you type into Facebook, expats in Montenegro, English speakers in Montenegro, English speaking families in Montenegro, English speaking retirees in Montenegro, any variation of whatever you can think of there will be a group for it.

I can almost guarantee. And that's the way to find people. So a lot of people, as I said, get together based on their interests. So there's hiking groups, dog walking groups, painting, groups that people that like to go cook together, book clubs, really any interest that you have, you will find expats practicing it in almost any corner of the world.

[00:22:09] Are there any lesser known places, those hidden gem destinations in Europe that, you think would be great for women traveling alone or, with their friends.

I'll put Kotor Montenegro on that list. I don't think most Americans think of Montenegro yet, but it's becoming more and more popular. It's really just the best of old world Europe, but no one has paid attention to it so far. Kotor is a medieval walled town surrounded by a bay, and it's like something out of Walt Disney.

It's almost too pretty to be believed. It's almost too picturesque. That's really a great spot. Montenegro is also a great spot for boating. There's a big yachting culture there. But I think if I were to make a short list of my favorite places in Europe that most people don't think about, I would put Kotor at the top.

I would add Malta. I don't know how known Malta is among Americans, but Malta is a series of three actually five islands, but three of them have habitants on them. Malta Island itself is a wonderful place to spend time. And then Gozo, it's sister island to the north is completely unknown.

Even tourists that go to Malta don't usually go to Gozo. Gozo is probably half the price, has a very small population, but is really interesting archaeologically, some amazing history in Malta. The Knights Templar were based there during the Crusades. Every culture that you can think of has passed through and left a mark.

Great place to go, very safe island to visit. There is one neighborhood in Valletta, which is the capital of Malta, where all of the Brits go for bachelor parties. That is a place I would not go at night. But again, it's not local crime, it's not extremely dangerous, it's just very rowdy and boisterous drunken Brits. Just something to keep in mind. 

I would also add Cyprus, as I say, it's a bit farther off the map. It's generally a place that Americans don't go. The Brits have been going there for decades. In fact, they had colonized it at one point. So many people there, it's has one of the highest rates of English speaking in Europe and they drive on the left, things adopted from the British. It's a wonderful island with so much history and a really interesting, cultural cross section. 

And I mentioned Mercia and I think that is a really good option. It's a riverside city. I love riverside cities. But it's basically, everybody lives their life outside and it's a place where you're not going to run into any tourists. Or really any expats very off the radar and much cheaper than most destinations in Spain. 

[00:24:47] So you've written extensively about retiring and visiting abroad. Where can people find you online? 

At liveandinvestoverseas.com. That's the website. The main platform is Live and Invest Overseas. We're at our heart, a publishing company, we publish content, recommendations, insights, and guidance. It's for people thinking about living, retiring, investing overseas, and just package it in all kinds of forms from free e-letters to paid monthly subscription services, books, and we host about a dozen conferences a year. 

[00:25:24] Tell us about your book, how your book helps readers navigate the practical aspects of moving or spending extended time in these affordable European destinations?

I've written a lot of books on retiring overseas, and they all took the same approach which was a kind of how to approach, which is very valuable and I thought had a purpose. But this idea has evolved and the idea is increasingly almost mainstream.

The AARP writes about retiring overseas and, Forbes USA Today and US News, all have regular sections now, columns and contributors on retiring overseas. So the market has evolved and I thought it would be valuable to put together a book that shares stories of real life expats who've already made the move. They tell their stories about where they came from, why they wanted to move, how they chose where to go, because of course, that's such a big question.

You start looking around the world and realize wait, it's a lot of countries out there. A lot of regions, where do I go? So to hear from people who were in that position, not that long ago and have them talk through their process of how they chose where to go, and then to tell the story of what their life is like now in the place where they decided to go.

And so half of this new book, it's in two sections. And one section is devoted to those real life stories of expats of all descriptions. Some are retired couples, which is the conventional face of this, a retired couple moving to another country together, but increasingly at single men, single women and younger people with children.

It's funny you say that during COVID, I had two good friends and they moved their entire family to Portugal two totally separate families, two different regions, and they didn't know each other, which was really interesting. I was just talking to a good friend that I went to Finland with.

She and her husband are moving to Spain. I'm looking to go to Italy. I liked the idea of the digital nomad visa. You can apply if you make a certain income opt out of federal health care could show that you had a place to live, and they would give you a resident visa for one year.

[00:27:36] It's easier now than it's ever been try this idea and go live in a place for a year or so, thanks to those kinds of residency visas. If you want to stay in a place indefinitely, you need permission from the government. That's what residency amounts to. A couple of decades ago, these programs were not so common, and there were just a few options.

Today, a lot of countries offer a dozen or more different visa options, residency options, including the kind of digital nomad visa you're describing where, if you qualify and the requirements to qualify are not complicated or onerous, and some of them are very affordable. It's not a big investment either. You can come and stay for 12 months, 18 months and, get a real taste of the place, not as a tourist or traveler, but really dig in and become a resident. 

And in the current book, what's the key piece of advice you hope that people take away? When they're considering moving abroad or even just visiting for an extended period of time.

I think that one idea that I really try to convey in the book and generally is this isn't easy. And it isn't for everyone. The truth is not everyone is cut out to move to another country and build a whole new life from nothing.

And even those for whom that's not a crazy idea, you need to go into an understanding that it's going to take work. It's not going to be easy. And you're going to come to points where you'll wonder if you took leave of your senses, what in the world was I thinking? Why did I think this was a good idea? Where am I and what am I doing here?

 I've had those moments myself over the past 27 years now living outside the States. Especially in Ireland, the first year in Ireland was really hard for us. My husband and I were married a month before we moved to Ireland together. Kat, my daughter at the time, was eight. And so she and I were moving with my new husband, her new stepfather to a new country and starting a new business all in the same year. And then what made it the hardest thing for me, honestly, putting all of that aside and all the complications that came with all of that was the weather.

What I've realized, and I had never really known about myself is I need sunshine. After about six months in Ireland, Where it almost never is sunny. I was really sad I had never gone through a period where I just would wake up every day feeling sad, and I couldn't even figure out why.

And so we took a trip coincidentally for work to Nicaragua and we spent two weeks or so in Nicaragua. And by the end of the trip, I was my usual self again. And I realized it was the sunshine. Getting out in the sun every day. I was back to my usual self. So we made a plan for how to, build in regular sunny destinations because it was taking a toll on me. Although, we didn't speak of it openly, but you'll find there will be things about your new destination. Which could be the perfect place for you to be, and it checks all your boxes and it meets all your priorities, but there will be things that won't work for you.

Nowhere is perfect. And for me in Ireland, it's the weather. I need sunshine. So you'll need to be prepared for that. 

[00:30:52] For women that may be hesitant, let's say they've never been overseas before, what's some advice that you would give them to travel? I would say just take it in small steps. This shouldn't be just a one way ticket. You should do a lot of research online beforehand. And then take it, at your comfort level. If you're looking at someplace in the Americas, maybe you just take a long weekend, if you're looking at Europe, maybe you go for a week, maybe two weeks, maybe the next time you spend a month or two months.

Don't just travel there and expect I'm here with my suitcases. As Kathleen said, there's always going to be an adjustment period. You might find it harder to integrate than you thought you would. The language might be harder than you thought it would be. And we always say rent in multiple places. It could be the town, the city. It could just be the street that you're on is not the street that you want to be on.

We know one person who moved to Belize. He rented a house next to a church. You wouldn't think a church would be a bad neighbor. But it turned into a nightclub after hours, and they broadcasted the music outside the megaphones that would announce the hourly bells for the church would then turn into loudspeakers for what turned out to be a little club at night.

My other big piece of advice is don't forget that this isn't jumping off a cliff. Rarely are decisions that permanent in life. You don't have to move overseas for good.

You could move for a month, six months, a year, on the digital nomad visas that are now popular especially in Europe, you can easily live somewhere for a year. If you don't like the place you initially settled on, you could move on, find another place.

Once you're in the region and you find another place you like better move on to that one. You can go back home. If you say, this isn't for me, fair enough. Just be honest with yourself and say, I had a great adventure for however long it was, and it's a story I'll tell till the day I die, and I'll move back home and it'll all just become a funny anecdote at cocktail parties

This is another thing that, I think Canadians are very familiar with this idea of snowboarding. Going somewhere for the snowy months or the really cold, miserable months renting your home out if you can, or, finding some way of mitigating that cost and then spending just a few months overseas, whether it's in a place that you own and rent out for the rest of the year or a place that you just rent for three months, six months, whatever. The beauty of that is it becomes easier for you administratively. You don't need to worry about the residency or the taxes or, the blah, blah, blah that goes with it all.

[00:33:18] The last question I have for you, cause we're going to be wrapping up is what are some creative ways you've found to find your place? I know in the last podcast we talked about resources, apps you've talked to a lot of people that have actually, they're expats, they've made the leap. What are some unique things they've done that people may not have thought about to find their place? Choose where to go?

Yeah, to choose where to go. Is it going to be like the dart on the globe? Is it going to be a Google search for something? Is it going to be AI? Create me a list of, that's actually probably a good, that's not a bad strategy, but I'll say one way that I've known a lot of people to choose where they thought they would like to try this idea on for size is thinking back over places where they've gone on vacation throughout their life.

So what was your best vacation? When you think of my favorite trip, my best place I've been, if they're all at the beach, then you want a place with a beach. If your memory of your best vacations were all in Europe and walking through cities, then you want to focus in Europe. So you can start by thinking in your experience to this point, where have you been happiest traveling, taking vacations?

So if you have something like that. That helps to filter. If you could go anywhere, then it's hard, you are almost throwing a dart at a map, but start with asking yourself these questions. What kind of weather do I want. What do I want out my bedroom window when I wake up every morning. What kind of food do I like? How do I like to spend my free time? What's my favorite thing to do on a Friday night or a Sunday afternoon? 

Another important question as you're choosing where is how local you want to go. This is a question that you should address very early on and it sets you on one path or another and they're very different paths.

And what it has to do with really is how much of a change of lifestyle are you up for? How much culture shock are you comfortable with? Because going completely local in the interior of Panama, not in Panama City, which is a city almost like any real city in the world, it's become a bonafide city.

So you can live in Panama City as though you're living anywhere in the United States, but in the interior of Panama, if you choose to live among locals, then your life is going to be very different than if you choose to live in a private gated community built specifically for foreign retirees and expats. 

Construction will be different. The infrastructure will be different. The quality of the roads, the quality of the electricity, a lot of things that you might take for granted. They'll be very different in a very local neighborhood versus in a gated community, specifically targeting foreigners.

That's all great advice. 

[00:36:06] Today, we've come to the end, so we have one more question for you, Kathleen and Kat. When it comes to traveling personally, do you have one resource or app that you use most often to plan or to actually navigate your trip?

Kat already mentioned Uber, but Uber is a lifesaver because as she says it, you can use it in so much of the world today, just transparently.

We can be in a lot of different places. My husband and I moving around and you're out walking and suddenly it starts raining or you realize you're running late for an appointment and you don't have to think where do I get a taxi? Where's a taxi stand you just stand under an awning in the rain and call an Uber who comes straight to you.

So that's, I think, makes on the ground travel very easy. But I'll add that, I'm so old school that I still travel with printed guidebooks. We went to Turkey my husband and I a month ago. My planning for that trip was a trip to the bookstore here in Paris where I bought every guidebook they had on Turkey.

You might have to share some tips on that. I'm headed to Turkey in December.

Oh I loved the trip. We had a wonderful time. We were on the western coast. We drove from Izmir down to shoot through Israel to Ephesus. And had it's a wonderful part of the country, if you like, history and archeological ruins and architecture.

[00:37:29] Now we're going to be wrapping up our podcast today. I want to thank you both. One last time, where can our readers find you online, both the website and your social platforms? 

[00:37:39] We are liveandinvestoverseas.com and we are on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. Kat is our primary face on YouTube and posts a video a week from all kinds of different places and interviewing lots of interesting people on the ground in different places of interest, including expats who've already made the move.

Ladies, thank you so much for joining us we're going to have another episode just on retiring for less overseas. Thank you again. Thank you. We appreciate the invitation.

We hope you've been inspired with this conversation with Kathleen and Kat about budget friendly European destinations for women to visit. Be sure to pick up her book, check out their website, and we'll have those links in the show notes, that's it for this week.

I'm Heide Brandes. And I'm Nicky Omohundro. Pack your bags and get ready for adventure.