Off The Beaten Path Episode Four - Penn Street

Today I am speaking with Penn Street! She shares with me her life as a young tom-boy and her adventurer's spirit. The harrowing tale of survival and healing from a rattlesnake bite and how she overcame all the no's in life and learned to navigate her vision loss on her own terms. I know you will find great inspiration in what she has to share with us today!

Here's a bit more about Penn Street
Penn Street lost most of her eyesight at age nine from Stevens-Johnson Syndrome (SJS) after being bit by a rattlesnake. Her tom-boy spirit proved the medical teams wrong over and over again. She not only survived, but thrived. SJS compromised Penn's sight, but not her tom-boy spirit. She made the choice early that she would not be shoved to the sidelines. Her career spans decades working in the disability communities. Her passion is showing others that the outdoors is for all of us and we have to show up and be at the table when discions are being made. Penn has rafted the Grand Canyon, summited many of the peaks in surrounding her home in Colodo, skiis the steep winter trails, paddle boards, and takes long walks every chance she gets. She is also the host of the podcast, The Blind Chick.

Connect with Penn

Website:  http://www.aftersight.org

Catch Penn's podcast here: https://aftersight.org/audio-publications/the-blind-chick/

Follow Penn on social (click the links below)
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/penn.street

Thanks for listening! Off The Beaten Path is brought to you by Dave Epstein and Awarewolf Gear, makers of the All Terrain Cane and the Urban Xplorer. To purchase a cane or find out more visit https://awarewolfgear.com/awghome

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Transcript

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Dave Epstein: Hey, everyone, Sedona, Dave here. And this is off the beaten path. Today we're talking to an amazing blind Podcaster, a highly respected influencer in our community

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Dave Epstein: a true outdoors person.

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Dave Epstein: I would say, a true friend.

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Dave Epstein: just a great, great person to follow and pay attention to in our community. Let's give it up for Penn Street, Penn. Welcome to the party.

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Penn Street: Thank you so much, Dave, for having me. It is a great day.

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Dave Epstein: Nice, nice crushing it so far.

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Dave Epstein: I love your smile you've got. You've got a really.

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Penn Street: Oh, thank you. Life's too short. Not smile right?

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Dave Epstein: Love that love that good good! Good! Yeah. Great laugh.

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Dave Epstein: How's span doing today?

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Penn Street: Good much better. I had a bit of the flu last week but kind of kicked my butt, but

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Penn Street: I'm bouncing back.

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Dave Epstein: Really and really like the the pros. Well, I've been waiting to get you on board with our podcast I remember, was not long ago that I was on the other side of the desk.

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Penn Street: Yes.

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Dave Epstein: Learning, the Podcast, the blind Chick. I believe.

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Penn Street: Yes, yes.

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Dave Epstein: And I was all like Brand, new to the whole scene, into a werewolf. Ear canes, cane production. I was all nervous, and not knowing what was going on.

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Dave Epstein: And you were very kind, and

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Dave Epstein: it was a great success, great fun podcast and now I get to be on this side of the desk.

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Penn Street: Yay!

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Dave Epstein: And get into the nitty gritties on you, and what makes you

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Dave Epstein: awesome and super excited to find out more about you.

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Dave Epstein: So if you're ready

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Dave Epstein: as

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Dave Epstein: as my buddy. The pilot with this flight helmet says.

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Dave Epstein: Shut up and hold on.

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Dave Epstein: light this candle, Penn Street. Let's get to know you. So

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Dave Epstein: 1st and foremost, okay, you're a podcaster. Yeah, visual issues.

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Dave Epstein: Tell us about yourself who you are, what you got, what you do. Give us the the deets on you.

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Penn Street: Wow! That that's a that. That could be a scary question.

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Dave Epstein: Depending on.

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Penn Street: It is depending on the day. Right? Yeah, I

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Penn Street: I I really think of myself as an adventurer through life, no matter what it is regardless if I'm in the mountains, or.

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Penn Street: you know, even filling out forms online, that are, you know, not accessible, right? We've all been there done that. But yeah, I'm the. I'm the 9th of 10 kids. So I have 7 older brothers. So I sort of came out of the womb a tomboy right like I. There was no no barbies and pink fluffy

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Penn Street: dresses for me, and really really did everything I could to keep up with them. I really loved being a little sister, but wanted wanted to just be in all of their adventures. And then, when I was 9 and I did my poor mom, she waited so long to have another little girl.

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Penn Street: I did not live up to that dream of hers, but I did have a little sister a couple of years later, and she totally filled in all the gaps with the Princess and everything. So you will not find my little sister out on any trails, that's for sure.

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Penn Street: But but yeah. And then, when I was 9, I I got bit by a Western diamondback rattlesnake, and it triggered a syndrome called Stevens-johnson syndrome.

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Penn Street: and that that definitely knocked me for a loop. My

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Penn Street: poor little 9 year old body! They didn't think we're was going to make it, but but I did. And I think it really was that tomboy spirit of

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Penn Street: Okay, I'm sick today. But I'll be better tomorrow, like you know, just that attitude. And

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Penn Street: even when you know, I got released from the hospital, and they, you know, it was such a rare disease. They didn't really know

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Penn Street: what the future would hold for me, except there was definitely a bunch of no's that, they said, you know. No, you cannot climb trees anymore. No, you cannot, you know, run through the woods by yourself, and it definitely impacted my vision.

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Penn Street: you know, which was the most noticeable thing, but it really did a number on my heart and my lungs, and was told that I would never run. I would never, definitely, never climb mountains, you know, do anything sort of extreme

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Penn Street: with with my athleticism, and which is a big bummer. I was on the you know, school baseball team. I was on the gymnastics, you know. I was

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Penn Street: just anything to get my body moving. I really enjoyed. So so yeah, so I just I just was kind of a brat. It was like.

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Penn Street: yes, I can.

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Penn Street: And some of that definitely came from my dad. My dad always kind of had this like, well.

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Penn Street: yeah, you're probably not supposed to be riding your bike. But let's not tell mom, you know. Just just go for it. See what you can do. And

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Penn Street: and figured out. Well, you know, there was certain I had enough vision that I could

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Penn Street: like, make out contrast and stuff and so, and had that for a long time. You know, I could ride a bike independently, probably not safely. I have all the, you know scars, and on my especially my knees from all the crashes. But but I just really focused on what I still had. What did I have to work with? Right, you know, and I think there's a lot of us out there. You are that way for sure, Dave.

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Penn Street: What do I still have left? What? What's usable right.

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Dave Epstein: Love, that.

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Penn Street: Sometimes you don't know that you don't know what's usable

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Penn Street: until you fall, and you're like, Oh, wait a minute. If I did it this way. I wouldn't fall, you know, or at least I wouldn't fall as hard

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Penn Street: wouldn't lose quite as much skin or as deep a bruise. But I just that that really is kind of a nutshell of me is, and not just for myself. I picked a career that I really really wanted to work with people with disabilities, and I really wanted

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Penn Street: to live in that energy where there is that energy does not exist anywhere else, as far as I have found. Is that energy of.

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Penn Street: yeah, yeah, maybe I'm in a wheelchair, but I can still get up that mountain, or you know, you know I don't have any arms, but I can still swim the pool, and I just that's just like my food for my soul. And

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Penn Street: I, you know, I went on, and I've had an incredible career of working with people that with disabilities that really push themselves and sometimes pushing themselves, is putting, you know, for the 1st time they put a cane in their hand, and they make it down to the mailbox and back for the 1st time. You know, whatever that, whatever that is, but it's it's just a magic place to live in.

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Dave Epstein: That's so many different directions. I want to go in right now.

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Dave Epstein: I want to backtrack for a second before I lose my my trains of thought.

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Penn Street: Sure.

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Dave Epstein: I've never encountered this condition before you mentioned it affected your heart and lungs.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: So many questions about that, did it?

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Dave Epstein: How long did it take to manifest? Did it? Did it settle in muscles? And second question before I forget them all.

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Dave Epstein: You live at altitude.

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Penn Street: Yes.

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Dave Epstein: You're not at sea level. And and I'd like like to really find out, how does that affect you on a daily basis?

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Penn Street: Probably not good.

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Penn Street: I. So basically what it is. Stevens-johnson syndrome, it's it's an adverse drug reaction. So after the snakebite, they gave me all this medicine right to save my life and

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Penn Street: and and that's what the and they don't know. If it was one of the medications that was the trigger or multiple. But you're you're basically, your body burns alive from the inside out. So you're treated in a burn unit.

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Penn Street: 75% of my body was covered in second and 3rd degree burns. And so, if you think about being in a fire, all your soft tissue is compromised, and so, when they felt like maybe I was going to make it. They said that I'd be on a breathing, you know. I would never be able to breathe on my own. I would be on a feeding tube the rest of my life, because my entire

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Penn Street: mouth, and throat, you know, because it was blistered from being in a fire, even though it wasn't in a fire. So all of my organs, all of my skin. I was very, very fortunate my mom was

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Penn Street: She was native American, and she's gone now. So that's why I say was. And so she really believed in natural medicines. And so when I was. I had, you know, like I said, 75% of my.

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Penn Street: you know, skin was covered in blisters. Well, when I finally was able to go home. She threw away all the prescription prescription ointments and that kind of stuff, and she put, you know, was using aloe vera. And

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Penn Street: you know, comfrey and these different herbs and stuff. So

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Penn Street: I'm very, very fortunate. A lot of kiddos that survive Sjs are severely disfigured because of the burns. And I'm not. There's definitely some, you know, places on my back that you can, you can tell. But I was very fortunate with that. But if you think about being in a fire, and the soft tissue being compromised.

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Penn Street: And they also you age a lot faster than you should and it's accelerating now, so like just in the last 10 years. I'm 56 now. But just in the last 10 years I've been, you know, I have

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Penn Street: rheumatoid arthritis. I have osteoporosis.

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Penn Street: you know they there. Something's going on with my heart. Blacking. I'm having blackouts, and they think it's pots, which is so funny, because when they ask me, has anybody ever, you know? Or they said, Do you have pots? And I thought they.

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Dave Epstein: If you smoke.

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Penn Street: Pot, and I was like, no, I haven't smoked pot, and they're like not that I I mean, I don't care. We you do you right, but I was like, no, I don't smoke pot, and they all, of course, laughed, and they were like no pots, and they told me what it meant. I was like Nope, never heard of that one, but it's just everything's accelerating now. So. But even as even in my twenties, when you know, I was climbing mountain peaks, and I was running, running trail running, which is crazy to me.

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Penn Street: or even cycling up the Colorado passes on my bike. It hurt like I never got to usually like. If you get next really good exercise, you know you. You strengthen your heart and your lungs, and they don't hurt quite so much. Mine never got past the hurt but and and I knew they never would. But I didn't care. You know they're going to hurt if I sit on the couch, so

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Penn Street: they're going to hurt if I'm standing on top of mountains, so I'd rather be standing on top of the mountain.

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Dave Epstein: Where we want to be. Love that. Thank you.

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Penn Street: Yeah, yeah.

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Dave Epstein: Yeah, I can imagine the the pain, and it's not just, I'm guessing a topical pain, but but the pain goes deep into the muscles, into.

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Penn Street: Yeah, it's it's not fun. It is not fun. I do want to tell you, though, we were in

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Penn Street: Steamboat Springs this last just last few days, and we were. We went to the famous Strawberry Hot Springs there, and so I try to do a lot of that. We were at Hot Sulfur Springs. You know I try to do a lot of things like that, Yoga.

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Penn Street: to try to keep again what's still working? How long can I keep it working. But there was a there was this really neat bookstore Tea House Coffee House that was called off the beaten path, and I and I thought of you. But

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Penn Street: but but yeah.

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Dave Epstein: On to that one.

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Penn Street: My husband took a picture of of me standing in front of it. I'll just send it to you, Dave, but.

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Dave Epstein: Made.

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Penn Street: But I do try to do things like that, not just externally, like, you know, the Hot sulfur springs and things like that, but also internally, I eat. Try to eat really, really well, and take care of this body, because I want it to last as long as possible.

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Penn Street: and I'm stretching it pretty thin right now. But

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Penn Street: but yeah.

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Dave Epstein: It sounds like you're you're you're living really close to Mother Earth.

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Penn Street: I try.

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Dave Epstein: I don't know if you're doing like a raw, but but but sounds like your diet is one of, you know, minimal processing. Yeah, no junk, really. Yeah, close to the earth. Yeah, beautiful. And you're living in an amazing place, too. I mean the

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Dave Epstein: the air, the great opportunities to.

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Penn Street: Yes.

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Dave Epstein: Out into nature, and that's you know, we get to go. And do you know where we want to be? And that's.

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Penn Street: Yes.

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Dave Epstein: Yeah.

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Penn Street: Absolutely.

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Dave Epstein: And you got into the community helping your your people, the community

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Dave Epstein: got into podcasting where where you are today.

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Dave Epstein: take me through that. You know the the transitions

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Dave Epstein: that got you 2 sitting behind the microphone and saying, All right.

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Dave Epstein: I'm Penn Street.

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Penn Street: How does that happen? I I don't know. At a fairly young age I

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Penn Street: I was very. I was shy. Put me out in the woods, and I would talk to the the trees and the birds.

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Penn Street: but to to stand in front. I don't know how I ever made it through speech class

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Penn Street: in in high school, but somehow I managed. But

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Penn Street: when I when I started my career I I would get asked, even though it wasn't part of my job to do public speaking, and because I worked with people with disabilities they were. It was. It was easy for me to talk about, you know.

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Penn Street: And so

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Penn Street: I I got comfortable talking in front of even fairly large crowds, and

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Penn Street: you know, and and I've and I've made a lot of friends just like you. And just really incredible people have touched my life in in so many ways all over the con, all over the country and the world actually. And so when

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Penn Street: Covid hit, I was working for a nonprofit called No barriers, U.S.A.

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Penn Street: Eric Weimer. Many of you may know the 1st blind person to Summit Mount Everest. It was his nonprofit, and I love that job. That was my

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Penn Street: where I wanted to spend the rest of my life. I got to raft the Grand Canyon and climb all these mountains

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Penn Street: and do all these amazing things, and I got paid.

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Dave Epstein: This week was like.

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Penn Street: Right and and get to hang around all these, you know, dirt bags, and and meet all these amazing people.

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Dave Epstein: Only suit.

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Penn Street: yeah, it was. It was really cool. Well, then, Covid hit and Covid just like the rest of the world. It really shut down a lot of nonprofits, especially if they were in person.

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Penn Street: Experiences like no barriers was. And so I got laid off, and then they eventually let us all go because they didn't know how long. You know. At 1st it was like, Yeah, we're gonna lay you off for 3 months. None of us knew what Covid was gonna

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Penn Street: have on the, you know, impact the world. And so I needed a job. I I'm

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Penn Street: you know, as you know, Dave, I'm sure that you know the unemployment rate or underemployment rate for people who are blind and low vision is above 7, you know, 70%. And so it freaked me out that I didn't have a job. Yes, it was awesome. The government was handing out money to the unemployed, but I didn't trust you know I took it right, but I didn't sit around and wait until

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Penn Street: that was over. I started immediately looking for a job. I got contract jobs and things like that. And then

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Penn Street: and and even took some jobs I really didn't care.

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Penn Street: didn't like like, and knew I wasn't going to be there forever. But I wanted that stability of a paycheck, and so

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Penn Street: after site, which is where I work now. I heard that they were hiring, and I heard about it through. Kevin Worley is a buddy of mine who's blind, very influential in the blind world. And he sent me. An email said, Hey, did you see this. I know you're looking, and

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Penn Street: I barely got in under the wire, Dave, you know the job was closing, I think, that night, and the executive director knew me. I had collaborated with her on other projects, and so she knew me. I knew her, but still it was a rigorous interview process, and

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Penn Street: I gosh! I think there was 3 different interviews and the final one. I was actually over in Utah. We were. We were camping and climbing over there, and

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Penn Street: we? I was like we have to stay in a hotel because I need stable Wi-fi

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Penn Street: to do this final interview, and

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Penn Street: we got this like total. I don't. I would never stay there again. It was like the scariest hotel ever we were there, and and I was able to get a stable wi-fi, and you know, and I, you know, put on my, you know, professional face, and did the interview, and it was with the whole staff. We were all on zoom together, and and

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Penn Street: and and it still took several

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Penn Street: weeks for me to find out that I was the one that they picked and

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Penn Street: so I came on board as their development and outreach director, and they had this little

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Penn Street: podcast at the time. It was called community Conversations, that that they wanted really to bring life back into. And I said, Oh.

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Penn Street: you know well, I know some people that if you know, we you guys could interview, because you know. I I know a lot of people.

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Penn Street: Just because all the work I do, and so they'll oh, well, we would actually like you to do. You should be the host. And I was like, Oh, I've never done a podcast. I don't want that. I listen to podcasts. And they said, Well, you're qualified pretty much. And

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Penn Street: so I started interviewing basically just some friends. And then it really blew up like it just exploded. And so that we wanted to make it, you know, a little sexier title, right? And so it turned into the blind chick. Because that's what I'm on, social media. I'm the blind chick that's my handle. And

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Penn Street: so I kind of went through all the friends and all my connections. And again it just it. Just.

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Penn Street: I think it surprised all of us. So they hired a podcast producer so that I didn't have to just rely on my friends and and also just to make it more professional get like an Intro jingle and all the all the cute fun stuff that podcasts have and

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Penn Street: yeah, it, just it just exploded. Now, we get people calling us and saying, Can I be on the blind chick which that's really bizarre to me that

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Penn Street: it's still like, I'm just still so surprised when I meet somebody, and you know they they're like, Oh, my gosh! You're the blind chick! I love the blind chick and and and that it really warms my heart. And and it's and I have met so many incredible people just like you

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Penn Street: being able to do it. It's it's an incredible platform to also give other people, which is my goal.

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Penn Street: is to give a place where people could share their stories.

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Penn Street: not just their triumphs, but also the work that it took to get there. And they're really

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Penn Street: I, Dave, there's just like with you what you're doing here.

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Penn Street: There's there's not a lot of places for people that to have that opportunity

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Penn Street: to kind of be exposed to

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Penn Street: what the possibilities are. You know that, like people are all the time like. Oh, my gosh! I cannot believe the person you interview. Does that like, I didn't even know blind people could do that. And I'm like, Yeah, we can pretty much do anything. If we're given the right skills, the right tools and the opportunity.

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Penn Street: You know it. It kind of takes those that triangle of Perfecta.

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Penn Street: And we can do. We can do anything we could take over the world. Just watch us.

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Dave Epstein: And we are.

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Penn Street: We are. We're everywhere.

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Dave Epstein: That's that's you're you're you're speaking my language. You're you've got that can do. Mentality, that

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Dave Epstein: and your progression, your your progression on how you got to that seat behind the desk with your headphones on.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: And that also lends to your successes, too. I'm interested in like, all right, you're a great person. How did you get to be great

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Dave Epstein: your story of how you got here.

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Dave Epstein: That's what we're after. What? What gives you the

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Dave Epstein: the successes? And and I see you've got some neat headphones. I do not have headphones on.

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Dave Epstein: I need

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Dave Epstein: things. Yeah, were Spot sponsored by Sam Sevey and the blind life. He was gracious enough to

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Dave Epstein: ship me out a real professional microphone. But.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: Need things. And this is this is where I'm very curious as to

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Dave Epstein: how you selected how you chose these items that give you your success.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: That give you the successful. Podcast, you know the voice, the sound. Yeah, the the no reverb, the no feedback. So

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Dave Epstein: help us there. You know.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: Headphones and mics. What criteria do you use to choose the equipment that supports you?

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Penn Street: Yeah. Well, I I'm also yes, I do have. That can do attitude. But I think

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Penn Street: sort of the secret sauce that we all forget about is asking for help and also

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Penn Street: sort of putting our egos aside and asking people for help and because, like, I said, I, I had no clue about podcasting like I, and I am a huge fan of podcasts like there's, there's several that I listen to. I am extremely faithful to and they're very random. They don't really go together. It's not like I have a theme or anything, but is so

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Penn Street: part of

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Penn Street: part of it was asking, because I had no clue when I when I 1st started out. I had my little, you know, apple earbuds in, and you know, and then I and then I went. And and I was literally using the microphone on my computer. And then I asked Evan Starnes, who works with me?

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Penn Street: Who's he's an incredible sound engineer who happens to be blind.

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Penn Street: And Evan really helped me say, Penn, you, you need you need a good head, you know, headset. And we did move to something that kind of had a a mic built into the headset.

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Penn Street: And but still the quality, the sound quality, wasn't quite there. And so and then Brady Steffel, who I also work with.

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Penn Street: He said. Well, and he does a podcast outside of work.

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Penn Street: It's called side dish. And he said, well, this is the mic that I use, and these are the headphones that I use. And I was like.

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Penn Street: Oh, okay. So we got so I got those, and and and the sound quality was massive, you know it was huge jump.

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Penn Street: Then Jonathan came on.

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Penn Street: and Jonathan and this is a sure microphone, and it was a huge game changer. Because this mic.

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Penn Street: is

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Penn Street: it? Come it almost. You might be able to hear my guide dog yawning in the background. He's not quite as excited with my story.

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Penn Street: but but it really the sound quality from that other microphone to this one again. It was just a huge leap. So you talk about equipment, you talk about successes

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Penn Street: you really

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Penn Street: have to put like, really ask, you know, ask people, what are you using? Wow! You sound really good or

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Penn Street: you know, I'm not getting that feedback. I'm not getting those those highs and lows like I normally do. What what are you using, you know, so.

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Penn Street: and and I don't care what you're doing out there, rather, you know, and it's the same thing with me with like trek poles, right like when I'm when I'm hiking. I was. I don't know. I didn't remember what some offshoot brand, and then, you know, I was hiking with Eric Weimer. And I was like, Oh, what Guy, you know. And that was a huge game changer, right? We need to ask people

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Penn Street: and then I am because

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Penn Street: because of my job I'm very fortunate, and it's there, and it's after sight is the umbrella over the blind chick. They're the ones that produce it and put it up, put it up out to the masses. They purchased my equipment, but then I got a co-host this year in January, and I'm financially in a place now that I purchased his equipment.

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Penn Street: And you know I probably didn't need to. The after site probably would have bought them. But but I just you know what I can. I can do this. And and so I did

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Penn Street: so, and so he has the same mic and then I think he he might have the same headset as well. The headset isn't quite as important.

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Penn Street: You want it comfortable, and have you know where you can hear and stuff. But it's that mic that really cause you, you're you're gonna be interviewing like these amazing people. Right? You want to be able to make sure that

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Penn Street: they come across just as amazing.

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Dave Epstein: Absolutely. I'm all about putting the the best foot forward.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: There's no reason why why we can't, or why we shouldn't be doing that, and, you know, start off with, do I need an external camera. Do I need.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: And and it's it's it's terrific that that you

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Dave Epstein: you ask for help. I can learn so much about that.

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Dave Epstein: I don't have a problem asking for help. But when it comes to

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Dave Epstein: things mic equipment, I tend to just

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Dave Epstein: stumble through it myself. And then I ask, it, does is this working you had the the foresight to ask

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Dave Epstein: people with that experience. So that's

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Dave Epstein: what a what a time saver.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: Oh, and hold on! There's a question coming in from somebody a fan. Wants to know. What kind of a trekking poles does Eric use

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Dave Epstein: asking for a friend.

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Penn Street: Oh, man, I don't even know what he's using right now. He probably has these like, you know, glow in the dark. I don't know

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Penn Street: things. Who knows?

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Dave Epstein: Filled, or.

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Penn Street: Exactly.

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Dave Epstein: I just had to get that out there myself, but somebody somebody else wanted to know.

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Penn Street: Somebody somebody else. Yeah, I can tell. There, somebody in your your studio there.

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Dave Epstein: Indeed.

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Dave Epstein: Nice. You're. You've got many amazing stories to tell and to share

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Dave Epstein: something I'm always interested in. Not that we can do this, but

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Dave Epstein: I've always been curious about if I could go back in time to the little me, my little, my little.

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Dave Epstein: put my arm around him and say, Hey, little dude! Here's 1 piece of advice that I, as your future blind self, really want to pass on to you.

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Dave Epstein: Aside from staying away from snakes. I'm just throwing that out. That might be, maybe at the top of your list.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: Being away from

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Dave Epstein: Western diamondbacks.

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Dave Epstein: Is there one piece of advice that you would give your younger self in preparation for the future?

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Penn Street: I would just say.

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Penn Street: you got this. You know, it's

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Penn Street: it's gonna hurt. It's gonna suck at times, but it's worth it. And you got this. That's that's what I think. Because

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Penn Street: I I think there's lots and lots of kids out there, and and even adults that are new to vision loss that

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Penn Street: we get so many no's, you know. I mean, you're not supposed to do this. You're not going to be able to do this, you know all these things. You can't read anymore. You can't drive your car anymore. You know all these things. You can't ride your bike anymore.

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Penn Street: and

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Penn Street: that we need to start saying more yeses to them. And just that, you know, you got this.

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Penn Street: You know, you gotta figure it out. But you got it.

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Dave Epstein: A lot more of support system.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: Then then guardrails.

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Penn Street: Yes.

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Dave Epstein: Loft, loft them up and give them that

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Penn Street: So it's okay to fall like, it's yeah. It's I see it all the time with

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Penn Street: parents, with kids, you know, with especially blind kids. They're like holding their hands. They're, you know. You talk about those guardrails, and I'm like, No, let them fall off the monkey bars, because that's they're going to learn about space right? If you let go, you are going to hit something on the bottom, and it may not be soft like. That's how you learn. You know you you it's it's if if we are not allowed to fall.

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Penn Street: we are. We are not going to be able to learn to get back up right, because that skill of learning like, Oh, man, my knee is scraped, or you know oh, my! My hand hurts, or whatever. But you can still get back up.

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Penn Street: You just get up like, you know. And and you learn a lot from that. Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: Right right, but not not just with the you know. Suck it up, rub some dirt in it, and move.

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Penn Street: Right.

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Dave Epstein: Not with that attitude or mentality, but

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Dave Epstein: giving us

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Dave Epstein: permission

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Dave Epstein: to fall.

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Penn Street: Yes.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: Giving us

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Dave Epstein: permission to explore.

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Penn Street: Yes.

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Dave Epstein: Out and and to identify. What do we want to do and be out there? And whatever that answer is, how do we get there. What are the tools that I need to

384
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Dave Epstein: get on top of the mountain or

385
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Dave Epstein: kayaking? Or you know.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: Myriad of of things that we can do so

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Dave Epstein: interesting.

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Dave Epstein: great, great, great, great tack on that great approach.

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Dave Epstein: If there were a cure.

391
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Dave Epstein: Would you take it.

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Penn Street: Man

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Penn Street: that I I actually think about that quite a bit. My, I don't know. I really like my life. I really love my friends and my family, and I don't think that I would be here

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Penn Street: if

395
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Penn Street: I hadn't of got, you know, ended up with the vision loss, I think.

396
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Penn Street: because so much of my life, even my career is tied into my vision loss. And

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Penn Street: I I just really don't think I would. And I can't even imagine all the stuff I'd have to relearn.

398
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Penn Street: you know.

399
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Penn Street: you know, like

400
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Penn Street: people are like, oh, but you then you could drive a car because I've never been able to drive, at least not legally. My husband is

401
00:44:24.950 --> 00:44:37.009
Penn Street: taught me the very basics. Just in case if we're ever like in a true emergency. I don't know what that emergency would be that I needed to drive them puberty, horrendous emergency. But

402
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Penn Street: but it's like. But but I don't know. Driving looks stressful for me, and it's I like. That's not where my brain goes. I think

403
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Penn Street: I maybe I would reclim all the mountains I've climbed and see a clear view, but I don't know. Like

404
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Penn Street: to me. I had a clear view.

405
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Penn Street: I got to experience it with all my senses.

406
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Penn Street: you know, and my blurry vision right? But I got to experience it with all the other senses as well. I don't. I don't know. I just feel like I would be a totally different person, and I don't know if I'd like that person.

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Dave Epstein: You know, and yet I'm getting the impression that you don't identify yourself primarily as a blind person

408
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Dave Epstein: who is, you know, a Podcaster.

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Penn Street: Right.

410
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Dave Epstein: And and otherwise outstanding individual. It's part of your makeup. It's part of who you are.

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Penn Street: Yes.

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Dave Epstein: Yeah.

413
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Dave Epstein: I've got rp, and.

414
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Penn Street: Yeah.

415
00:45:42.130 --> 00:45:44.730
Dave Epstein: Drive. I was a surveyor.

416
00:45:46.950 --> 00:45:52.199
Dave Epstein: lost my license, thank goodness! And and and when I think about the question myself.

417
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Dave Epstein: I'm a hard no on it as well. But

418
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Dave Epstein: people are like, Oh, yeah, you could drive again. I would absolutely not want to.

419
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Dave Epstein: It's a jungle out there. It's.

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Penn Street: Oh, yeah.

421
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Dave Epstein: Cars. They're smarter, and they do things on their own and

422
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Dave Epstein: having rp, now I know that I can't trust these these these guys. I know that.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: There's there's nothing trustworthy about that.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

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Dave Epstein: To go into all right now. You've got your your vision back again. I don't know if I'd be able to trust it. Do I am I getting the information to drive, you know, an 8 ton vehicle, you know. Warp factor 8.

427
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Dave Epstein: I like. I like my eyes just the way they are. And and, as as you say, I've adapted my life

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Dave Epstein: to embrace and to carry on as a person with lower, no vision. So yeah, I think I'm right there with you.

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Penn Street: Yeah.

430
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Dave Epstein: We'll we'll we'll carve our new paths together. We'll.

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Penn Street: Yay!

432
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Dave Epstein: Trails

433
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Dave Epstein: blindly together.

434
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Dave Epstein: Nice.

435
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Penn Street: Yeah.

436
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Penn Street: nice.

437
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Dave Epstein: Oh, my goodness, you really crushed some great questions!

438
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Dave Epstein: Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you really want to touch on that you want to address.

439
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Penn Street: Rest!

440
00:47:09.420 --> 00:47:13.159
Dave Epstein: Feel that as a blind community we're not addressing

441
00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:15.899
Dave Epstein: adequately or enough, or correctly.

442
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Penn Street: Yeah, I mean.

443
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Penn Street: it is just having equal access to the outdoors. And I've

444
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Penn Street: had some really amazing experiences over the last year working with braille trails here in Colorado, and

445
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Penn Street: and it's a great 1st step. But to me that's all, it is is the 1st step, because all of the Braille trails are really short, like we're talking like a quarter mile, and that's 1 on the longer side, right? And to me Braille trails are great, but

446
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Penn Street: it doesn't really put you out into the outdoors right? And

447
00:47:57.850 --> 00:48:03.079
Penn Street: it's it's I. And part of that having access is that

448
00:48:03.100 --> 00:48:20.789
Penn Street: there are buses that go to the ski areas. There's so that you can get there independently. You know, there's buses to trailheads. You know that where so much of the outdoors it's not necessarily that the outdoors is inaccessible. It's

449
00:48:20.900 --> 00:48:39.590
Penn Street: getting access to get there. And I really feel that there has got to be some bigger, better solutions, because, like, even with me. Where I live in Colorado I could take an Uber or live pretty much anywhere.

450
00:48:40.250 --> 00:48:42.899
Penn Street: and they would drop me off at that trailhead.

451
00:48:43.120 --> 00:48:46.729
Penn Street: but I would be at that when I came back down.

452
00:48:46.860 --> 00:48:56.149
Penn Street: There's there's no cell service right, or it'll say no cars available, no cars cause what car is going to be hanging out up there, you know.

453
00:48:56.660 --> 00:49:11.829
Penn Street: It's it's it's to me it's a big barrier is just even having access to the outdoors unless you're lucky, like I am. My husband loves to do outdoor stuff, but there are days like Gosh! I wish I could just

454
00:49:12.380 --> 00:49:15.469
Penn Street: go for a hike by myself, you know, or

455
00:49:15.500 --> 00:49:31.469
Penn Street: go paddle boarding by myself, you know, or something, and it's there's just all these barriers, and you know, and I'm working through them, and we'll continue working through them. But I just like it should be a little bit easier now. It's 2024. For God's sake.

456
00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:34.200
Dave Epstein: And and from what you're describing.

457
00:49:34.960 --> 00:50:00.690
Dave Epstein: that's a mountain of resources, I mean buses to take people to trailheads, I mean, that's to me. You know, we've had the same thing in Sedona. And I recognize that man. That is a really important service. Yeah, to the people who live in the mountains, and you've got the many trailheads and the trail systems, the networks of systems out there access to them.

458
00:50:01.010 --> 00:50:09.289
Dave Epstein: transportation shuttles parking the infrastructure. Yeah. You as as a blind person, or as a non-driving person who would have.

459
00:50:09.290 --> 00:50:09.930
Penn Street: Yeah.

460
00:50:10.370 --> 00:50:18.229
Dave Epstein: As readily. Absolutely. You mentioned Braille trails. Can you audio, describe that? I've never! I've never heard or seen.

461
00:50:18.230 --> 00:50:25.669
Penn Street: Don't know about braille trails. Oh, they're actually really phenomenal. They've been around for a long time for like decades and decades. But

462
00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:29.990
Penn Street: there what it is. It's it's trail, and it's in the woods.

463
00:50:30.390 --> 00:50:50.039
Penn Street: like the one that I've been working with is it's actually on Independence Pass, which is between Aspen, Colorado and Buena or not. Yeah, Buena Vista or no, I'm sorry, Leadville, Leadville and Aspen Colorado. And it's so. It's at really high altitudes it's I mean, it's it's way out there.

464
00:50:51.025 --> 00:50:52.000
Penn Street: And

465
00:50:52.320 --> 00:51:17.960
Penn Street: and it's a loop. This this particular one is a loop, and what they do is they? Some of them have like a rope that you just hold on to, and then at different increments, there'll be a sign, and it's and it's printed. But it's also in braille, so it'll in braille, you know. It'll say, you know. Oh, you're standing in front of a pine forest that's been here for whatever?

466
00:51:18.010 --> 00:51:26.869
Penn Street: And then you go along, you know, using the rope you keep going around, and another sign will be there, and it'll say, Oh, these are conifer trees, or

467
00:51:27.400 --> 00:51:36.580
Penn Street: what whatever's there? But the problem is is that the force changes right or and and even seasons. So

468
00:51:37.190 --> 00:51:54.546
Penn Street: it's not a true, and of course, over time there's fires, there's, you know, trees fall down, new trees grow, and even streams, you know, like that particular one goes next to a stream, and my husband was reading the description, he goes.

469
00:51:55.290 --> 00:51:57.439
Penn Street: This isn't even described.

470
00:51:57.440 --> 00:51:58.286
Dave Epstein: Oh no!

471
00:51:59.180 --> 00:52:08.579
Penn Street: That I mean it's and and yes, it's better than nothing right. But but and then there's another really

472
00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:16.140
Penn Street: decent brail trail up in Wyoming, in Casper Wyoming, and and it's neat because

473
00:52:16.170 --> 00:52:18.490
Penn Street: you have to be a billy goat

474
00:52:18.750 --> 00:52:22.309
Penn Street: up and down. It's not a flat, you know.

475
00:52:23.350 --> 00:52:30.823
Penn Street: surface. It's it like you are at. You. Better take your cane or your truck full with you, or you're gonna end up in the off the side.

476
00:52:31.090 --> 00:52:31.589
Dave Epstein: Have to be.

477
00:52:31.590 --> 00:52:32.240
Penn Street: And

478
00:52:33.170 --> 00:52:36.170
Penn Street: exactly you will be off off the beaten path.

479
00:52:36.710 --> 00:52:54.639
Penn Street: But but yeah, I bet you there is a Braille trail in Arizona. I would be really surprised if there's not. But I would like to extend those brail trails to have a much, much longer

480
00:52:55.104 --> 00:53:04.339
Penn Street: where you actually have to push yourself like. It's not this flat, you know, kind of monotonous trail, which is great for some people.

481
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:10.160
Penn Street: But if you really want to get out there like like, I really think you could

482
00:53:10.550 --> 00:53:19.770
Penn Street: do some pretty strenuous trails, and you wouldn't even have to do the Braille signs, you know. Just have good markings.

483
00:53:20.430 --> 00:53:26.354
Penn Street: you know, different identifiers and stuff so that people could hike by themselves.

484
00:53:27.930 --> 00:53:32.479
Dave Epstein: Build the trail such that a mobility aid would be able to identify.

485
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:33.340
Penn Street: Exactly.

486
00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:38.380
Dave Epstein: So make our tools more

487
00:53:38.910 --> 00:53:40.110
Dave Epstein: effective.

488
00:53:40.110 --> 00:53:41.650
Penn Street: Yes, absolutely.

489
00:53:41.970 --> 00:53:44.759
Dave Epstein: The populace. I love that love, that.

490
00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:45.470
Penn Street: Yeah.

491
00:53:45.640 --> 00:53:46.325
Dave Epstein: Okay.

492
00:53:47.180 --> 00:53:53.909
Dave Epstein: interesting. You know a sign in front of a stand of trees. You're standing in front of pines, or whatever

493
00:53:54.130 --> 00:53:55.890
Dave Epstein: it could be interesting.

494
00:53:56.600 --> 00:54:03.309
Dave Epstein: It brought me back to a hike. We did. Oh, just a handful of days ago, where, going through a a

495
00:54:04.290 --> 00:54:08.859
Dave Epstein: juniper grove, and out here in Sedona, Arizona junipers, you know.

496
00:54:08.860 --> 00:54:09.340
Penn Street: Yeah.

497
00:54:09.340 --> 00:54:17.719
Dave Epstein: Really smell, I mean, the smell is palpable. By the time we got down to Oak Creek and auto, you know, our pup was swimming and doing his thing.

498
00:54:17.870 --> 00:54:20.279
Dave Epstein: Now we're among the cottonwoods.

499
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:21.090
Penn Street: Hmm.

500
00:54:21.090 --> 00:54:25.479
Dave Epstein: And that you know that in the fall has a very prominent.

501
00:54:25.490 --> 00:54:30.719
Dave Epstein: a candy smell almost like Pez. Yeah, you break those little.

502
00:54:30.720 --> 00:54:31.190
Penn Street: Yes.

503
00:54:31.190 --> 00:54:43.909
Dave Epstein: Backs open. It's it's that sticky pez smell. Yeah. The forester geek in me is is seeping out. Sorry but but for for I guess what I'm saying is for the blind person. Yeah, difference in in smells.

504
00:54:43.910 --> 00:54:44.480
Penn Street: Yeah.

505
00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:47.230
Dave Epstein: Cottonwoods versus Juniper is really

506
00:54:47.680 --> 00:54:50.480
Dave Epstein: interesting when you set your brain to, it's like, Wow, that is.

507
00:54:50.810 --> 00:54:51.500
Penn Street: Yeah.

508
00:54:51.500 --> 00:54:53.179
Dave Epstein: That's so bad. Being blind is that I can.

509
00:54:53.180 --> 00:54:54.040
Penn Street: I know.

510
00:54:55.380 --> 00:54:57.337
Penn Street: Wow, yeah, I.

511
00:54:57.990 --> 00:55:00.786
Dave Epstein: Hey? I've got to get out into the trails with you someday.

512
00:55:01.020 --> 00:55:01.550
Penn Street: Yes.

513
00:55:01.550 --> 00:55:04.799
Dave Epstein: Get up into Colorado, get away from this flat desert.

514
00:55:06.090 --> 00:55:15.509
Penn Street: I don't know. We've been hiking in Sedona only once, and and we we enjoyed it. We've been talking about how we got to get back out there when we have more time.

515
00:55:15.750 --> 00:55:23.540
Penn Street: So we can. Because I think we literally had like one day that we could stay. I was like? Do we really have to go.

516
00:55:24.270 --> 00:55:26.179
Dave Epstein: End up, going shopping for souvenirs.

517
00:55:26.510 --> 00:55:29.415
Penn Street: No, that will not be me.

518
00:55:29.830 --> 00:55:34.310
Dave Epstein: Say this, I throw this out. I probably shouldn't. But I throw this out to you.

519
00:55:34.520 --> 00:55:38.129
Dave Epstein: What good are friends in Sedona? If you can't take advantage of them.

520
00:55:38.130 --> 00:55:41.940
Penn Street: That's right. That's right. Same here. Same here we feel the same way.

521
00:55:42.350 --> 00:55:48.759
Dave Epstein: Alright. Well, we gotta do something about that. I need some more elevation get into some granite away from the sandstone up into.

522
00:55:48.760 --> 00:55:51.130
Penn Street: Yeah, absolutely.

523
00:55:51.130 --> 00:55:53.559
Dave Epstein: And well, let's do that. Let's let's talk about.

524
00:55:53.560 --> 00:55:54.190
Penn Street: Yeah.

525
00:55:54.190 --> 00:55:54.820
Dave Epstein: Rails.

526
00:55:54.820 --> 00:55:55.920
Penn Street: Let's make it happen.

527
00:55:56.470 --> 00:55:59.439
Dave Epstein: It's been great chatting with you before we let you go.

528
00:55:59.968 --> 00:56:03.850
Dave Epstein: How do we keep in touch with you? How do we follow you?

529
00:56:03.850 --> 00:56:20.519
Penn Street: Yeah, so the blind, the blind chick is on all podcast. Platforms. Wherever you listen to your favorite podcast that you'll find me the blind chick. New episodes drop every Thursday, and soon

530
00:56:20.530 --> 00:56:26.519
Penn Street: we're going to be doing dropping a second little episode. We're going to call them chicklets

531
00:56:28.560 --> 00:56:48.499
Penn Street: and I just need to get a bunch of them in the in the bucket recorded. But they're just going to be little funny things, which I'm sure, Dave, you know about, you know just weird things people ask you, or little encounters like, Wait, did that just happen? Kind of episodes.

532
00:56:48.500 --> 00:56:50.615
Dave Epstein: Funny and weird. Why do you think, Dave.

533
00:56:54.396 --> 00:57:00.409
Penn Street: And then you can definitely check out aftersite.org.

534
00:57:00.460 --> 00:57:18.229
Penn Street: you can learn more about what we do there. All the other podcasts, we have a lot of other podcasts. There, we have one that's called blind level tech, that Evan does. And he actually does a little. He, his drops once a week as well, but then he also has a little mini.

535
00:57:18.250 --> 00:57:25.660
Penn Street: He calls them bytes, which is fun, really awesome, super simple tech things as well as super advanced way over my head.

536
00:57:26.072 --> 00:57:38.049
Penn Street: You know we have one called game changers, where? The host interviews people that are specifically in sports that are blind and low vision. So we have lots and lots of stuff on there.

537
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:48.500
Penn Street: As well as you can find out more about me, and then you can always email me pen, penn@aftersite.org.

538
00:57:48.580 --> 00:57:57.760
Penn Street: So would love to hear from you. And if you want to be on my podcast you have a story you'd like to share with the world. Please let me know I'd love to hear from you.

539
00:57:58.190 --> 00:58:02.323
Dave Epstein: Absolutely. That's thank you so so much.

540
00:58:02.980 --> 00:58:06.699
Dave Epstein: Always excited to keep in touch.

541
00:58:06.700 --> 00:58:07.580
Penn Street: Yeah.

542
00:58:07.700 --> 00:58:11.449
Dave Epstein: You know you. I think you were my 1st podcast. You.

543
00:58:11.450 --> 00:58:13.559
Penn Street: I think so. I think so.

544
00:58:13.560 --> 00:58:15.000
Dave Epstein: Excited about that, and.

545
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:15.530
Penn Street: Yeah.

546
00:58:16.010 --> 00:58:17.359
Dave Epstein: Come full circle.

547
00:58:18.150 --> 00:58:21.289
Dave Epstein: great great, sharing the screen with you today, Penn.

548
00:58:21.290 --> 00:58:23.390
Penn Street: You too. You too, Dave.

549
00:58:23.390 --> 00:58:30.830
Dave Epstein: Love love hearing your stories, and indeed, let's throw some hiking boots on, and get some dirt.

550
00:58:31.140 --> 00:58:31.800
Penn Street: Yes.

551
00:58:31.800 --> 00:58:33.820
Dave Epstein: Their souls. All right, pen.

552
00:58:33.820 --> 00:58:34.470
Penn Street: All right.

553
00:58:34.470 --> 00:58:36.579
Dave Epstein: Things continue to crush it out there.

554
00:58:36.580 --> 00:58:39.460
Penn Street: Thank you you too. You, too. This is awesome.

555
00:58:40.580 --> 00:58:41.510
Penn Street: Bye.