Off The Beaten Path Episode Five - Kirk Adams

Today we are talking to Dr. Kirk Adams. Kirk and I talk about his blindness journey  which started at age five. We dove into what it was like for him growing up in a small town and discovering how there wasn't much available for blind kids to have developmentally appropriate experiences. This was the catalyst for the direction he took in life -to be an advocate for people with disabilities. 
I know you will enjoy this episode of Off The Beaten Path!


Here's a bit more about Dr. Adams
Dr. Kirk Adams is a Professional Speaker and the founder of Innovative Impact LLC., focusing on groundbreaking, high-impact projects that accelerate the inclusion of people with disabilities in the workforce and supercharges a company’s bottom line.

Dr.  Adams earned his PhD in leadership and change. He is known as a master connector of key decision-makers in government, corporate America, the nonprofit sector, and disability advocates guiding them to create collaborative solutions that have a real impact in increasing the employment of people with disabilities.


To connect with Dr. Adams On Social

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kirk.adams.56/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirkadamsphd/
X formerly Twitter: @KirkAdamsPhD

Thanks for listening! Off The Beaten Path is brought to you by Dave Epstein and Awarewolf Gear, makers of the All Terrain Cane and the Urban Xplorer. To purchase a cane or find out more visit https://awarewolfgear.com/awghome

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Transcript

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Dave Epstein: hey? Everyone, Sedona, Dave here, and this is off the beaten path. Today I'm talking with a true business leader in our community

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Dave Epstein: a very full background. I met him as a CEO of a rather large and impressive corporation back in about 2020.

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Dave Epstein: And he hasn't stopped there, constantly, upwardly mobile, constantly improving, constantly working his game.

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Dave Epstein: Please give a warm, awesome welcome to Dr. Kirk Adams Kirk, welcome aboard.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Thank you, Sedona, Dave, and I imagine you. I've been at your home in Sedona.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Imagine I can imagine where you are right now on a beautiful.

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Dave Epstein: No.

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Dave Epstein: no, not too glamorous, for, to be honest, I'm tucked away in a dark bedroom, I mean office.

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Dave Epstein: but the background is gorgeous here in Sedona. Beautiful weather. We're having the clouds really giving

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Dave Epstein: Depth and character to the landscape. Super time to be in Sedona. Let's get some more hiking bootstrapped onto you, and come on out and beat some more trails into submission with us.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Sounds good.

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Dave Epstein: Yeah, no. I remember back in 2020 when he came on out did some hiking back. Then that was with really the prototype, the second prototype of our all terrain cane

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Dave Epstein: and and that was a really important trip for me to get the feedback from. You guys on what works, what doesn't work, what's needed, what's desired.

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Dave Epstein: And together

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Dave Epstein: we're we're we're busting some paradigms. We're we're we're changing things I would say for the better in our

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Dave Epstein: our community. Yeah.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Agreed.

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Dave Epstein: Yeah.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I have. My. My prototype is about 10 feet away from me right here.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So in Seattle.

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Dave Epstein: If.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Ready to go.

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Dave Epstein: It's just a prototype. Yeah, I cannot wait to hand. Deliver the the final version of the all terrain cane, a couple of improvements, and and again constantly improving. So we'll get a new atc in your hands as well. Our new urban explorer the Kid. Sister. You know we're not here to talk about me. We're here to try to spotlight on you.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Alright! Let's do that.

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Dave Epstein: So if you're good with that I would love to dive into. Who are you? Who's Kirk Adams?

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Dave Epstein: Who are you? What you got, and what you doing these days.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. Well, you know, I have a lot of identities. My newest one is grandpa. So

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Dr. Kirk Adams: that's a fun. That's a fun identity to have.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I am a totally blind person I've been since I was 5 years old when my retinas both detached simultaneously when I was in kindergarten.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: due to some hemorrhaging of some blood vessels that cause pressure that detach my retinas.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And I became went from being a sighted kindergarten kid running around the playground to a kid in the hospital, to a blind waking up in the hospital, a blind kid

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I went to a school for the blind

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Dr. Kirk Adams: at that point in time

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Dr. Kirk Adams: kids with significant disabilities weren't educated, and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: in their local neighborhood school provisions weren't available for that, though my parents were told

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Kirk can't come back to school here. He needs to go to the State School

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Dr. Kirk Adams: for the blind kids and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: they they checked out. The Washington State School didn't like what they saw there as far as academics. They were young, they were 25 years old. They were both

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Dr. Kirk Adams: starting their teaching careers, but then they visited the Oregon State School, and thought it was tremendous, so they

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Dr. Kirk Adams: quit their jobs and move the family to Oregon, so I could go to school there.

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Dave Epstein: Hmm.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And first, st second, 3rd grade learned my my braille skills.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: reading, writing, braille, traveling independently with a long white cane typing on a typewriter.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: so I could start into public school in 4th grade and went went all the way

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Dr. Kirk Adams: on through. And

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know you you mentioned. I've I've had some successes professionally

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Dr. Kirk Adams: 1st 10 years out of college banking and finance, and then into the nonprofit sector, and became the CEO of the lighthouse for the blind.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Here in Seattle, going

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Dr. Kirk Adams: 250 blind and deafblind people and businesses, including aerospace

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Dr. Kirk Adams: manufacturing for all the Boeing aircraft.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And then was, was given the honor and privilege to be the President and CEO of the American Foundation for the blind.

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Dave Epstein: Yes.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Alan Keller's organization. He was the brand ambassador for 45 years, and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: moved to New York City from Seattle to to step into that role, and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know, if I if I if I had a down day, I could walk down the hall instead of Helen Keller's desk.

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Dave Epstein: Well.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Write her and read her Bible, and let's.

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Dave Epstein: Get a good job.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Thought of inspiration.

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Dave Epstein: That's.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I have a Phd. In leadership and change from Antioch University, which I pursued and completed about 5 years ago.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and really just from my belief that leadership is one of the transformational

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Dr. Kirk Adams: factors that

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Dr. Kirk Adams: can improve the lives of people who are blind. I've really dedicated my

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Dr. Kirk Adams: professional and academic careers to creating opportunities for people who are blind.

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Dave Epstein: Hmm.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And really, that's because our outcomes are

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Dr. Kirk Adams: just unacceptably poor.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Only 35% of us of working age are in the workforce

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Dr. Kirk Adams: as opposed to over 70% of the general population working age or working.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So that means we have a lot of poverty.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know, homeownership is like 1 10, th that of the general population.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: those of us who are working are in a narrower band of occupations. The majority of us work for nonprofits or governments. So we have limited

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Dr. Kirk Adams: great jobs, but limited earning potential compared to

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Dr. Kirk Adams: some some of the other opportunities in entrepreneurship and corporate America, for instance.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I don't want to give the impression that any of this was easy. There are lots and lots and lots of barriers to thriving and being successful as a person with a significant disability

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Dr. Kirk Adams: that are really, you know, built built in

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Dr. Kirk Adams: to our environments, the built environment

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Dr. Kirk Adams: the digital environment, the social environment.

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Dave Epstein: -

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Dr. Kirk Adams: But there are some success factors

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Dr. Kirk Adams: that research. I'm a researcher shows

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Dr. Kirk Adams: that can

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Dr. Kirk Adams: put a person in a position to be successful and thrive as an adult, especially in employment, which is, which is my thing. I I think a good, meaningful career.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Solves a lot, solves a lot of issues.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: But

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I'll tell you. At the school for the blind I got. I got 3

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Dr. Kirk Adams: 3 things, and and one of them is very germane to what you're doing with your all terrain chain. One was, I got my blindness skills and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know, these were no, no doing of my own as a 6, 7, 8 year old. They they were gifts that were given to me.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I was totally blind, so there was no question.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know, does this kid need to learn? Braille, does this kid need to learn how to

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Dr. Kirk Adams: walk with a cane? Something like only 15% of us who are blind are totally blind. Other people on the legal blindness spectrum have different

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Dr. Kirk Adams: visual conditions.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: peripheral vision, central vision.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: blurred vision. But

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Dr. Kirk Adams: lots of people have some usable vision. Yeah. So with a lot of kids, that's a question. Do they need to learn, Braille? Could they use my unification? And now it's like, could they just listen to it. We do audio. But

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Dr. Kirk Adams: having

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Dr. Kirk Adams: strong

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Dr. Kirk Adams: blindness skills is a predictor.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So the more skills you can gain, no matter where you're at on your journey.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: But

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Dr. Kirk Adams: more likely you are are to be able to get to where you want to go. So in my case it was braille. Can you travel typing like I said. So

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I can start public school and type my spelling test and type, my

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Dr. Kirk Adams: papers and things for my teachers?

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And then the the other thing

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I got was high expectations. The school

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Oregon State School,

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Dr. Kirk Adams: was amazing. There were 100 100 1,120 blind kids kindergarten through 8th grade

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Dr. Kirk Adams: we were expected to be at grade level.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: if we didn't have another

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Dr. Kirk Adams: additional disability.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: You know, those of us who

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Dr. Kirk Adams: blindness was our only disability we're expected to perform.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know, at grade level. My parents, as I mentioned, were teachers. My dad was a bast High School basketball coach.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: played college basketball, a very disciplined person. You know. My parents didn't expect anything less than an a on a report card expected us to be involved.

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Dave Epstein: Too. Huh! Sports.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Right. Expect us. Didn't. Didn't exactly tell you how to do it.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Wait, wait, but laid out those expectations.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: But,

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Dr. Kirk Adams: You know a lot of

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Dr. Kirk Adams: blind kids and kids with disabilities don't have high expectations of them. Their families, like my family.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: My parents, I said, were 25 years old when I lost my

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Dr. Kirk Adams: vision, and they had never met a blind person before.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Have never

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Dr. Kirk Adams: didn't have any experience.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And a lot many families, if they're in that case they don't

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Dr. Kirk Adams: necessarily hold high expectations for their

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Dr. Kirk Adams: blind kids. They they may. They may have a vision in their minds where they're being a caretaker for that child into adulthood, and still living with them

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Dr. Kirk Adams: at home as a as an adult, and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: maybe not expected to go to college, etc. But I I had high expectations

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Dr. Kirk Adams: from my school and my parents.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So I had strong blindness skills. I had high expectations which I internalized.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and then

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Dr. Kirk Adams: The next thing was just a strong internal

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Dr. Kirk Adams: locus of control, which means us feeling deep in my bones that I could do what I wanted to do, I could

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Dr. Kirk Adams: create my own path, I could

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Dr. Kirk Adams: solve problems.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So it was this was the 19 sixties and run by a bunch of hippies in Oregon, and we we went

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Dr. Kirk Adams: backpacking, hiking overnight tent, camping in the 3 Sisters Wilderness area, we.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: the horseback camping.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: We went up on Mount Hood and built big snow forts out of huge snowballs. We went to the Oregon coast, and.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know, got in the tide pools and searched for starfish and sea anemones and nudibranchs, and.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know, climb trees and scrape knees, and did all those

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Dr. Kirk Adams: things that kids should do that were developmentally appropriate.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And then when I did my and so that's a strong internal locus of control, the the opposite of the external locus of control where you think things happen to me.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I can't really do much about it. Stuff is just gonna gonna happen to me. And when I did my doctoral work.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I. My dissertation is called Journeys through rough Country.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: an ethnographic study of blind adults employed in large American corporations. So I interviewed blind people working at, you know the usual suspects. Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, Google, Apple Chase

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Dr. Kirk Adams: at and T.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And

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Dr. Kirk Adams: all of them had a strong internal locus of control.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and many of them

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Dr. Kirk Adams: can. It could attribute that to a

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Dr. Kirk Adams: some peak, experiences or experiences, usually in their teen years, usually to do with the outdoors.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Or some sort of physical activity.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So 2 examples I like to use. There was a woman who was a 45 year, a successful executive at a major

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Dr. Kirk Adams: company that we all pay bills to and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and she remembered when she was a 10 year old she had a twin sister who was sighted, and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: her parents sent them off to Sleepaway camp.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and when it came time to horseback riding, the counselors told her, oh, no, you can't ride the horses. You're blind, that's too dangerous, or you're gonna have to sit here

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Dr. Kirk Adams: while the other kids ride the horses and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: That night she and her sister Snuck out of their cabin, and went to the stable and got a couple of horses and went riding.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: She just remembers the

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Dr. Kirk Adams: exhilaration of being in the night riding with her sister.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: feeling hoarse, and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: the power of that.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know another. Another gentleman, also working with a very successful company. Most of us use every day.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: He grew up in the Bronx in New York, and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: there's a group of neighborhood boys 1213 years old, and they they did

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Dr. Kirk Adams: these bicycle tricks. They would ride their bike, and you know, coast and stand up on the seat, or, you know, ride their bikes off ramps and do jumps. And so he he did that I was a blind kid.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know. You know, that that was his kind of set of peak experiences that gave him

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Dr. Kirk Adams: that strong

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Dr. Kirk Adams: internal locus of control. And another person had a a

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Dr. Kirk Adams: was trying to

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Dr. Kirk Adams: was not

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Dr. Kirk Adams: dealing with their blindness very well, was not using a cane to travel. Had a terrible accident. Fell down a stairwell.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: went to a blindness rehab center, and and they got her up on the slope, snow skiing

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and rock, climbing.

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Dave Epstein: Nice.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So those were. Those were her.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: as a you know, 1920 year old per

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Dr. Kirk Adams: peak experiences. So

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know, when I was with you

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Dr. Kirk Adams: on the trails in Sedona, using the the prototype all terrain cane, and I've done a lot of hiking, as I mentioned, backpacking

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Dr. Kirk Adams: a lot of outdoors stuff on the Pacific Northwest Kid. But that was the 1st time I'd really walked a trail without a sighted guide.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know, independent.

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Dave Epstein: Interesting, interesting.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: As a you know. Not not a kid!

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Dr. Kirk Adams: No.

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Dave Epstein: Oh, you are not! No.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: But the

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Dr. Kirk Adams: oh.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: those 3 things, the blindness skills, the high expectations, and the the strong internal locus of control were the 3 things I got

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Dr. Kirk Adams: given to me as gifts through my experience at that school for blind children.

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Dave Epstein: Amazing, amazing. I th that expression the internal locus of control. There's such a depth to that that I really want to explore

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Dave Epstein: after hours. I know there's a lot to that. And that really is, you know, as I'm thinking about what questions I'd like to ask, that really is the core of it. What is, what are the deepest

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Dave Epstein: experiences

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Dave Epstein: that give you the skills to build on your successes today?

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, I think the I think the I think my, the challenge that I

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Dr. Kirk Adams: try to address is, what can I be doing for blind people who

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Dr. Kirk Adams: weren't as fortunate as I to be given

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Dr. Kirk Adams: those gifts.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: those

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Dr. Kirk Adams: experiences that

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Dr. Kirk Adams: predict success and thriving as a blind adult.

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Dave Epstein: can I take you back to your kindergarten event, when when you had that that they

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Dave Epstein: i guess it was the the

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Dr. Kirk Adams: The retinal detachment.

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Dave Epstein: Rental Detachment Right.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Bilateral retin.

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Dave Epstein: Yeah, yeah, easy for you to say.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Right.

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Dave Epstein: So it's a bilateral retinal.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I was I I was a kindergarten kid. You know, running around playing on the playground and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: doing the things, coloring with the big crayons. I remember that.

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Dave Epstein: Where the big crayool is. Yeah, that's.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And then one, yeah. And then one day,

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know, we

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Dr. Kirk Adams: got on. Got on buses.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and I remember we had a big circle of construction paper pinned to us that the color of

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Dr. Kirk Adams: the circle told us which bus we should get on. I remember that

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Dr. Kirk Adams: they're on the orange bus, and then they let me off at the corner

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Dr. Kirk Adams: of my house. It was winter, so I'd started kindergarten, you know, in the fall fall in September, but this was probably November, December, but it had snowed a little bit.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and when I got off I just I could not tell where I was. The snow. Just I I had no idea where I was. I was just

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Dr. Kirk Adams: one block down to my house.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and then

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know, I just started kind of wondering.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and a neighbor found me in her backyard, you know, crying.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I kind of huddled in the snow snow, and she recognized me from the neighborhood. So she took me to my mom.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and my mom kind of took, took a look and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: said, Hey, something something seriously going on here. So it took me to the

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Dr. Kirk Adams: our pediatrician, who said, Oh, you need to see an ice doctor now, so took me to a hospital

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Cabrini, which was a Catholic teaching hospital here in Seattle, and I had a emergency retinal surgery

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and and woke up the next day totally blind and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I had a number of. I had a little bit of light perception for some years.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: but I had a I had a number of surgeries from age 5 to 12

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Dr. Kirk Adams: in which you know they try. This is before laser surgery. They tried to tack down the remaining parts of the rep and remove scar tissue, and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know they were very painful and unsuccessful, and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and I was in the hospital a lot.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: for, you know, 1014 days at a at a stretch, with my head immobilized after surgery as a little kid.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And I I don't want to make

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Dr. Kirk Adams: light of the psychosocial aspects of being blind, and people come to it at different points in their lives. And there's a

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Dr. Kirk Adams: a grief cycle.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I was talking to a therapist, maybe 7 or 8 years ago.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: because I think I had come to the Grief cycle a little later in life

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Dr. Kirk Adams: than some other people, and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know she's like, Well, have you done any work around your childhood. Trauma.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I said. Childhood trauma, she said. You were in the hospital

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Dr. Kirk Adams: for days, on time by yourself, essentially as a 6 year old that.

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Dave Epstein: Yes.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: That's childhood trauma.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So you know, there's a lot of stuff that that goes along

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Dr. Kirk Adams: with the impairment.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So the blindness is an impairment, and then.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: having the impairment puts us in a lot of disabling

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Dr. Kirk Adams: situations because of the environment. Our impairment doesn't fit with the environment.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So my little example I use a lot is if I'm running a board meeting and I have my agenda and braille my financial statements. My committee reports in Braille.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know. I I kind of run that meeting as efficiently as a sighted person would would run a meeting if they are leading their organization.

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Dave Epstein: But I'm.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I walk in and you hand me a stack of print.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: My visual impairment does not allow me to operate efficiently in that built environment of print. So I'm in a disabling

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Dr. Kirk Adams: situation.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I also often ask if I'm speaking to a group. Is there anyone here who's 5 foot 2 or shorter there usually is.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and I say, if you have a package on a shelf that's 8 feet off the ground.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: your characteristic of your height has put you in a disabling situation. So you're going to need to get a tool

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Dr. Kirk Adams: like a step stool.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: In order to to reach that or

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Dr. Kirk Adams: create a team, find a time to find a tall friend to reach it down for you.

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Dave Epstein: Right, and you.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: You may want to build a lower shelf, you know, for the future, you you may want to create a better fit between yourself and the environment.

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Dave Epstein: Solve that problem.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So that's what we do with assistive technology and accommodations and tools and technology is we, we create a better fit between ourselves.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: with with

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Dr. Kirk Adams: an impairment and the built environment that we find ourselves trying to operate in.

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Dave Epstein: Well, that's that's 1 of my my major questions is.

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Dave Epstein: is, is, what do you

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Dave Epstein: attribute your your present successes to? You know what technologies? What hardware, what software, what equipment? As a totally blind person. What you're saying is that, given the proper tools, you know, a a sheet of braille printout you are fully able enabled to get it done. That's okay. So those are those are your tools for success.

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Dave Epstein: the transition from sighted to blind was very quick for you. And there was no discussion. There was no negotiating. It sounds there was, okay, this is where you're going.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Right.

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Dave Epstein: I've got a a good skateboard, buddy also totally blind.

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Dave Epstein: who who shared with me as we were as I was complaining about blindness situations and I've got rp, I'm down to a very little in one eye and nothing in the other.

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Dave Epstein: He expressed to me, he said, you know, Sedona, Dave, you you really have it harder than me than us in the totally blind world because you've got one foot in both doors.

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Dave Epstein: and you're living in both worlds. So you are constantly choosing. What world do I want to, or do I need to be in

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Dave Epstein: let me get your opinion on that as as having experience in the cited community. And now you're totally immersed in this.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I mean, it's easy to say, but I'll say it, that if you cannot

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Dr. Kirk Adams: operate as efficiently with the vision you have as a sighted person. Then you need to get on to blind the skills.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: if a kid can't read as quickly as their sighted brother or sister

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Dr. Kirk Adams: using a large print or magnification, then they need to learn braille, so they can read just as fast as their

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Dr. Kirk Adams: brother or sister or classmate. If

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Dr. Kirk Adams: a person can't so

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Dr. Kirk Adams: developmentally appropriate. So let's talk about that. So

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I talk. I I have the privilege of talking to parents, of blind children quite often and off. Often. They're in the same place my parents were.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I don't know any blind people. I've never met any blind people. I have this blind kid

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: today, given these tools we have with the Internet and being able to connect with people electronically and virtually

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Dr. Kirk Adams: so many great opportunities for families to connect and people to connect. And

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I'll I'll come back around to that. But

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I say, you know

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Dr. Kirk Adams: your blind child should be doing whatever is developmentally appropriate for them. So

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Dr. Kirk Adams: if your sighted child's gonna be

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Dr. Kirk Adams: on the playground when they're 3 or 4,

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Dr. Kirk Adams: you know, going up and down the slide and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: fighting with another kid in the sandbox over a toy. You know your 3 or 4 year old blanket needs to be out there

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Dr. Kirk Adams: with their cane.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Doing those things.

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Dave Epstein: Love it.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: You're

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Dr. Kirk Adams: sighted. Kids 8, 9 years old are climbing trees and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: building tree forts. Then your blind kid needs to be out there doing that. If you're 12 or 13 year old.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: sighted Kid is meeting their friends at the Mall to go to a movie.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: No, your blind kid needs to figure out how to how to do that.

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Dave Epstein: And.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: If you live where there's public transportation, they need to learn how to take the bus.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: if your and this is this is where things start to separate

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Dr. Kirk Adams: at about age 16.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: In our country, where I grew up, especially in small towns. Kids got driver's licenses, and they got jobs

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Dr. Kirk Adams: of some kind.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And so I didn't get a driver's license

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and only about 23% of us with significant disabilities, get any kind of paid work

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Dr. Kirk Adams: before we're 23 years old and over 70% of non-disabled young people get some sort of paid work.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: The early work experience is also a predictor of success.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: as an adult.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: But

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Dr. Kirk Adams: so doing, those developmentally appropriate things is really important.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: it may take.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: some creativity, some problem, solving to

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Dr. Kirk Adams: create the opportunities for

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Dr. Kirk Adams: blind kids to have those developmentally appropriate experiences. And some kids are not born into families that have the resources or the infrastructure to do that.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Now that most kids don't go to schools for the blind, they go to their public school.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: It's pretty hit or miss whether or not not they get in a school that has

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Dr. Kirk Adams: good infrastructure to support and teach a blind child.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So there's there's a lot there's a lot of gaps.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: that people can experience

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Dr. Kirk Adams: before they get to the point where they're ready to, you know, school to work transition. Go into the world of work.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: You know, pursue those markers of thriving, whatever they are for that person. For me it was, get married, buy a house, have kids, which you know I did, that

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I also

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Dr. Kirk Adams: had to overcome a lot of obstacles to do that.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: as I

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Dr. Kirk Adams: right away from college.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Phi Beta Kappa and cum laude and 4 point, and my

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Dr. Kirk Adams: major economics and start applying for jobs.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and I would send out my cover letter and resume great great resume lots of good stuff on it, and I'd get phone interview

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and the phone interview would go great. And then they'd say.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Come in. We want to interview in person, and I'd walk in with my long white cane, my at that time my slate and stylus, and some braille paper, so I could take notes, and

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Dr. Kirk Adams: the employer across the desk was I?

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I imagine, they were thinking to themselves.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: self, how could this blind kid possibly do the job of a financial analyst?

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Dave Epstein: Oh, come on now.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And I wasn't getting hired. And so I I just.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And if you have a have a disability, a visible disability, there's a question of? When do you in the employment process? When do you disclose your disability?

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Dr. Kirk Adams: So I started putting it in my cover letter.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I've been blind since age 5. This is how I've accomplished what I've accomplished. This is how I'll do the job.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: That I'm applying for. And then then I wasn't even getting phone interviews. So.

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Dave Epstein: Okay.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: You know, I talk to people

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Dr. Kirk Adams: talented, smart, educated people who say I've sent out 200 resumes. I've gone on

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Dr. Kirk Adams: 40 interviews, so there. There are still barriers to to employment that exist, and I don't want to pretend there's not.

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Dave Epstein: Right?

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Dave Epstein: Right? Well, your your advocacy for us, for the blind community is.

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Dave Epstein: it's just commendable. We we need

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Dave Epstein: powerhouses like you to be the the figureheads, the the spearheads of

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Dave Epstein: come on, now, we got this, you know. All we need are the right tools

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Dave Epstein: and and and what I'm picking up also. Is that your background, your your developmental years in in, in the business world?

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Dave Epstein: in your successes, as Ceos have have only fueled this drive to do something about the employment unemployment rate to to advocate, for you know what we

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Dave Epstein: we gotta learn how to use public transportation. We gotta learn the stick. We gotta do what we need to do to stay in the game.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And the flip side of it is that conversation now with employers which I I didn't know how to do when I was 2122 years old.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: that disability as a strength, as a as an asset, because the way we develop strengths is by overcoming challenges.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And there's a book I really like that talks about that called the Talent Code.

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Dave Epstein: Okay.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: But it's if you're going to be a chess champion, you're gonna start out learning the basics, and you're gonna have increasingly

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Dr. Kirk Adams: harder, more difficult matches. If you are going to be a premier athlete, you're going to start learning fundamentals.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and then you're going to go up against stiffer and stiffer, stiffer competition, greater and greater challenges. If you're going to be a premier musician, you're going to learn the scales and the chords.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: and then you're gonna take on increasingly challenging pieces of music. So, yeah.

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Dave Epstein: The fundamentals, the basic.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Living with disability.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: we are faced with a ever changing set of challenges.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And should we

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Dr. Kirk Adams: choose to take on those challenges, we can develop

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Dr. Kirk Adams: strengths that are really unique.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Resilience and perseverance and grit is a is a buzzword in business.

427
00:36:08.690 --> 00:36:09.020
Dave Epstein: No.

428
00:36:09.020 --> 00:36:15.039
Dr. Kirk Adams: Creative problem solving how to analyze and manage, risk, how to work in

429
00:36:15.110 --> 00:36:17.620
Dr. Kirk Adams: shifting diverse teams.

430
00:36:17.650 --> 00:36:19.710
Dr. Kirk Adams: communication skills

431
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:20.865
Dr. Kirk Adams: and

432
00:36:21.670 --> 00:36:24.399
Dr. Kirk Adams: But the conversation I have on the employer side.

433
00:36:24.640 --> 00:36:27.859
Dr. Kirk Adams: because there there is a fierce competition for talent.

434
00:36:29.700 --> 00:36:36.119
Dr. Kirk Adams: people don't stick with the same company anymore. They pick up and move if they don't like their their situation so.

435
00:36:36.130 --> 00:36:37.590
Dr. Kirk Adams: and employers are

436
00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:42.119
Dr. Kirk Adams: are constantly striving to attract and retain talent, and I

437
00:36:42.370 --> 00:36:45.540
Dr. Kirk Adams: have that conversation like there, there's an untapped pool

438
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:52.150
Dr. Kirk Adams: of potential employees who are highly motivated to work have a unique skill set.

439
00:36:52.830 --> 00:36:55.389
Dr. Kirk Adams: and, you know, just a solid example.

440
00:36:55.530 --> 00:36:58.000
Dr. Kirk Adams: When I went off to college as an 18 year old

441
00:36:58.380 --> 00:36:59.954
Dr. Kirk Adams: I used to have an all my

442
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:06.190
Dr. Kirk Adams: textbooks and braille, but in college I I that that didn't happen for me. So I would get

443
00:37:07.060 --> 00:37:14.529
Dr. Kirk Adams: books recorded by recording for the blind, which is now called Learn Learning Ally. They're recorded by volunteers.

444
00:37:15.290 --> 00:37:19.919
Dr. Kirk Adams: A lot of Econ books read by people who didn't know Econ, which was a challenge in itself, but

445
00:37:20.010 --> 00:37:22.649
Dr. Kirk Adams: oftentimes I couldn't get the book at all.

446
00:37:23.120 --> 00:37:23.950
Dr. Kirk Adams: So

447
00:37:24.100 --> 00:37:32.359
Dr. Kirk Adams: you know the State department of Services for the Blind provided me a budget to hire readers. So, as an 18 year old, I was interviewing

448
00:37:33.472 --> 00:37:39.770
Dr. Kirk Adams: readers hiring them manage and managing the invoicing, paying them.

449
00:37:39.940 --> 00:37:41.730
Dr. Kirk Adams: firing some of them.

450
00:37:42.240 --> 00:37:47.539
Dr. Kirk Adams: So you know that that is an experience that my other 8, 18 year old freshman classmates were not having.

451
00:37:48.070 --> 00:37:51.619
Dr. Kirk Adams: So that's just a little example of because of my disability.

452
00:37:51.640 --> 00:37:56.290
Dr. Kirk Adams: I I had some unique business type experiences.

453
00:37:56.786 --> 00:37:58.840
Dr. Kirk Adams: You know that that we're a little bit

454
00:37:59.120 --> 00:38:02.029
Dr. Kirk Adams: unique among my my my peer group.

455
00:38:02.540 --> 00:38:08.150
Dave Epstein: Some some different or stronger, more impressive tools in your toolbox.

456
00:38:09.890 --> 00:38:13.440
Dave Epstein: you mentioned braille a lot as as part of

457
00:38:14.122 --> 00:38:20.109
Dave Epstein: your education, your successes running meetings. You've got the your sheets of braille in front of you.

458
00:38:20.793 --> 00:38:30.469
Dave Epstein: Having. Rp, I've I've dug in and said, there's just no way I'm going to learn very well. There's no need for me. With all the the tech

459
00:38:30.520 --> 00:38:36.308
Dave Epstein: out with them today, you know the other, the readers, the audibles, the the apps.

460
00:38:36.870 --> 00:38:38.660
Dave Epstein: Where do you

461
00:38:39.190 --> 00:38:53.109
Dave Epstein: feel that braille is? Today? As a you know, books, I mean, how how many of us actually read paper books anymore. We've got these things in our hands. Where's braille in your world today?

462
00:38:54.512 --> 00:39:00.849
Dr. Kirk Adams: For me, it's integral. I've got a braille tablet on my lap. It's an android based tablet.

463
00:39:01.030 --> 00:39:06.440
Dr. Kirk Adams: I've got a 80 character braille display sitting in front of me that's connected to my laptop.

464
00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:08.859
Dave Epstein: So the high tech braille. Yes, yes.

465
00:39:08.860 --> 00:39:13.110
Dr. Kirk Adams: I can read one line at a time what's on the screen? And I got a Perkins brailer

466
00:39:14.490 --> 00:39:17.819
Dr. Kirk Adams: on my desk with the 6 keys.

467
00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:18.890
Dave Epstein: Okay? No. Problem.

468
00:39:18.890 --> 00:39:29.850
Dr. Kirk Adams: I've got a slate and stylus in my briefcase I got stacks of hard copy braille, so I read it in every form. But that's the code I learned when I was a 6 year old.

469
00:39:29.850 --> 00:39:30.400
Dave Epstein: Yep.

470
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:31.949
Dr. Kirk Adams: It's very challenging

471
00:39:32.250 --> 00:39:33.940
Dr. Kirk Adams: to learn Braille as an adult.

472
00:39:34.140 --> 00:39:37.979
Dr. Kirk Adams: When I was the CEO of the lighthouse for the blinds here in Seattle, we

473
00:39:38.330 --> 00:39:42.539
Dr. Kirk Adams: out of 250 employees. We probably had 40 strong Braille readers.

474
00:39:43.040 --> 00:39:44.909
Dr. Kirk Adams: but we knew that

475
00:39:45.350 --> 00:39:47.070
Dr. Kirk Adams: people who

476
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:57.990
Dr. Kirk Adams: could read Braille efficiently could be more effective in the workplace as far as reading Braille work orders, labels on on tool bins.

477
00:39:58.450 --> 00:40:01.440
Dr. Kirk Adams: etc. So we we offered braille training

478
00:40:01.470 --> 00:40:02.960
Dr. Kirk Adams: unpaid times.

479
00:40:03.783 --> 00:40:04.610
Dr. Kirk Adams: And it

480
00:40:05.260 --> 00:40:07.110
Dr. Kirk Adams: it takes about 9

481
00:40:07.810 --> 00:40:10.280
Dr. Kirk Adams: on average. I'd say 9 good

482
00:40:11.020 --> 00:40:12.390
Dr. Kirk Adams: focus months

483
00:40:12.660 --> 00:40:18.579
Dr. Kirk Adams: for an adult who hasn't read Braille to learn how to distinguish the tactilely

484
00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:23.579
Dr. Kirk Adams: your thoughts on the characters. And then, after that, it's just working on on speed.

485
00:40:23.580 --> 00:40:23.960
Dave Epstein: Okay.

486
00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:26.279
Dr. Kirk Adams: Comprehension, and I've never

487
00:40:26.970 --> 00:40:29.960
Dr. Kirk Adams: there may be some out there, but I've I've never met a a

488
00:40:30.370 --> 00:40:35.210
Dr. Kirk Adams: rail learner who learned as an adult who could read as quickly and

489
00:40:35.570 --> 00:40:37.950
Dr. Kirk Adams: effectively as someone who learned as a kid.

490
00:40:38.120 --> 00:40:38.680
Dr. Kirk Adams: But

491
00:40:40.420 --> 00:40:42.719
Dr. Kirk Adams: I'm I'm a advocate

492
00:40:44.340 --> 00:40:45.800
Dr. Kirk Adams: a little braille

493
00:40:46.103 --> 00:40:50.849
Dr. Kirk Adams: if you want to take that on could make your life easier. I mean just labeling Cds and

494
00:40:51.570 --> 00:40:53.260
Dr. Kirk Adams: prescription bottles and.

495
00:40:53.320 --> 00:40:53.920
Dave Epstein: Okay.

496
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:55.120
Dr. Kirk Adams: Jotting down

497
00:40:55.150 --> 00:40:57.070
Dr. Kirk Adams: a recipe or taking a note.

498
00:40:58.790 --> 00:41:02.250
Dr. Kirk Adams: But for kids again I'll say it again. If a if a

499
00:41:02.620 --> 00:41:05.870
Dr. Kirk Adams: visually impaired child cannot read.

500
00:41:06.670 --> 00:41:13.060
Dr. Kirk Adams: print, magnified or large print as quickly as their classmate who's

501
00:41:13.130 --> 00:41:16.019
Dr. Kirk Adams: fully sighted can read. Then they need to learn, Braille.

502
00:41:16.040 --> 00:41:19.579
Dr. Kirk Adams: because you can learn. You can read Braille as fast as you can read, print.

503
00:41:19.850 --> 00:41:21.050
Dr. Kirk Adams: and with

504
00:41:21.260 --> 00:41:24.190
Dr. Kirk Adams: the same comprehension, if you learn it early.

505
00:41:25.100 --> 00:41:27.100
Dave Epstein: Interesting law.

506
00:41:28.090 --> 00:41:33.850
Dave Epstein: all new and news to me. Fascinating. I love. Thank you for sharing your perspective

507
00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:50.360
Dave Epstein: on that moving forward into the future strap on your future vision. Goggles braille as a tactile reading element. Is it? Will it endure, or is tech gonna take over.

508
00:41:51.540 --> 00:41:57.980
Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh, I sure will do my best to make it endure. It's a question of literacy.

509
00:41:58.550 --> 00:41:59.205
Dr. Kirk Adams: If

510
00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:11.249
Dr. Kirk Adams: listening to stuff was so great, then sighted, people would not learn how to read anymore. I mean, there's there's a reason why there's a code to represent languages.

511
00:42:11.250 --> 00:42:12.050
Dave Epstein: Yes, yes.

512
00:42:12.050 --> 00:42:14.429
Dr. Kirk Adams: Your head through other senses. So

513
00:42:14.470 --> 00:42:15.530
Dr. Kirk Adams: you know, site

514
00:42:15.600 --> 00:42:19.719
Dr. Kirk Adams: for sight of people touch for braille readers.

515
00:42:20.520 --> 00:42:22.280
Dr. Kirk Adams: It's a literacy question.

516
00:42:24.250 --> 00:42:25.490
Dr. Kirk Adams: and

517
00:42:26.470 --> 00:42:29.329
Dr. Kirk Adams: thank goodness for technology, it's wonderful.

518
00:42:29.420 --> 00:42:32.590
Dr. Kirk Adams: I mean, I have. I have jaw screen reading software on my

519
00:42:33.580 --> 00:42:36.780
Dr. Kirk Adams: laptop. I use voice over on the iphone

520
00:42:37.140 --> 00:42:38.280
Dr. Kirk Adams: constantly.

521
00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:41.608
Dr. Kirk Adams: So it it's it's great, but

522
00:42:43.010 --> 00:42:52.390
Dr. Kirk Adams: kind of like. I say, you know, when a blind kids in a school somewhere out in the community, and they get a braille teacher to come 2 HA week to teach them braille

523
00:42:53.140 --> 00:42:59.139
Dr. Kirk Adams: like well, would would you, would you put up with sighted kids? Only getting 2 h of reading instruction per week?

524
00:42:59.450 --> 00:42:59.970
Dave Epstein: 8.

525
00:42:59.970 --> 00:43:01.079
Dr. Kirk Adams: You would not.

526
00:43:01.090 --> 00:43:03.610
Dr. Kirk Adams: So it's it's a literacy question.

527
00:43:04.590 --> 00:43:05.000
Dr. Kirk Adams: And

528
00:43:06.820 --> 00:43:09.920
Dr. Kirk Adams: yeah, I will do what I I will do what I can do.

529
00:43:10.340 --> 00:43:10.710
Dave Epstein: That.

530
00:43:10.710 --> 00:43:11.140
Dr. Kirk Adams: And you.

531
00:43:11.190 --> 00:43:12.230
Dave Epstein: We've.

532
00:43:12.230 --> 00:43:15.099
Dr. Kirk Adams: Is the importance of the literacy for my

533
00:43:15.140 --> 00:43:17.660
Dr. Kirk Adams: blind brothers and sisters, especially kids.

534
00:43:17.890 --> 00:43:28.150
Dave Epstein: Nice appreciate so so much. Well, I you know I'm 60 and I shudder to think what the future of of the planet is what

535
00:43:28.310 --> 00:43:40.890
Dave Epstein: AI I I do so much research, you know, with with materials and all for for my canes. I get onto AI, and and in in 12 seconds I do a a year's worth of research.

536
00:43:41.830 --> 00:43:43.430
Dave Epstein: And you know, and

537
00:43:43.450 --> 00:43:52.779
Dave Epstein: this is gonna be auto transcribed for us. I don't have to do a thing I started to fear, you know. Are people going to learn how to read, how to write? How to

538
00:43:53.373 --> 00:43:58.670
Dave Epstein: come up with a a a cogent sentence that makes sense. In a few.

539
00:43:58.670 --> 00:44:01.569
Dr. Kirk Adams: I read something, and I'll paraphrase. But

540
00:44:01.630 --> 00:44:06.419
Dr. Kirk Adams: it was a question of like college students using AI to write their essays.

541
00:44:06.420 --> 00:44:07.100
Dave Epstein: Sure.

542
00:44:07.100 --> 00:44:13.260
Dr. Kirk Adams: And the professor says, I don't assign essays because the world needs more freshman English essays.

543
00:44:14.820 --> 00:44:21.159
Dr. Kirk Adams: I assign these assignments so people can learn to think and organize and articulate their thoughts.

544
00:44:21.160 --> 00:44:26.800
Dave Epstein: Hopefully, we continue to think. I mean, I'm I'm a big advocate of thinking. Let's let's keep that momentum.

545
00:44:27.890 --> 00:44:28.460
Dr. Kirk Adams: Good.

546
00:44:29.658 --> 00:44:30.792
Dave Epstein: Thinking is good.

547
00:44:32.190 --> 00:44:37.889
Dave Epstein: awesome huge conversation with you today, Kirk. I mean, I'm really.

548
00:44:37.940 --> 00:44:44.789
Dave Epstein: We delved into some amazing meat and potatoes, issues and questions about the blind community

549
00:44:45.500 --> 00:44:46.700
Dave Epstein: about you.

550
00:44:48.550 --> 00:44:52.460
Dr. Kirk Adams: I'll I'll say, and I'll I I don't know if you're gonna ask me. But my my

551
00:44:52.750 --> 00:44:58.060
Dr. Kirk Adams: general advice to anyone on the blindness journey is to connect with other people

552
00:44:58.767 --> 00:45:12.909
Dr. Kirk Adams: form some sort of community, rather formal or informal. We have so many opportunities now. I was so isolated. I grew up in these little towns. I was always the only blind kid in my schools. I really didn't connect with blind adults until I was.

553
00:45:12.970 --> 00:45:14.320
Dr. Kirk Adams: I'm in my thirties

554
00:45:14.650 --> 00:45:17.910
Dr. Kirk Adams: and I didn't know how to advocate. For myself.

555
00:45:18.460 --> 00:45:26.620
Dr. Kirk Adams: I have a story when I was in high school and walked into the chemistry class and the chemistry teacher said, No, no, no, you can't take chemistry

556
00:45:27.540 --> 00:45:28.230
Dr. Kirk Adams: issue.

557
00:45:28.370 --> 00:45:31.559
Dr. Kirk Adams: you know. Go to the office and get it assigned a different class. So

558
00:45:31.690 --> 00:45:35.209
Dr. Kirk Adams: I say I read. I sat in the library and read trashy novels.

559
00:45:35.210 --> 00:45:35.710
Dave Epstein: Nice.

560
00:45:35.710 --> 00:45:38.250
Dr. Kirk Adams: My whole senior year. But now I've met

561
00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:44.800
Dr. Kirk Adams: blind people who have Phds in chemistry, blind people who teach chemistry at the university level.

562
00:45:45.301 --> 00:45:51.269
Dr. Kirk Adams: I didn't know those things as a 1718 year old. My parents didn't know those things.

563
00:45:51.510 --> 00:45:52.400
Dr. Kirk Adams: so

564
00:45:52.530 --> 00:45:55.889
Dr. Kirk Adams: wherever you're at on your journey there's there's someone who's

565
00:45:56.600 --> 00:46:04.970
Dr. Kirk Adams: a few steps ahead of you, or a lot of steps ahead of you on the path, or someone who's kind of at your same place. You may have your same visual condition.

566
00:46:05.600 --> 00:46:08.010
Dr. Kirk Adams: May have some of the same aspirations.

567
00:46:09.540 --> 00:46:20.849
Dr. Kirk Adams: any 95% of any jobs you can think of. A blind person somewhere is doing it. So if you, if you're blind, listen to this, you want to be auto, automobile mechanic. They're blind, automobile, mobile mechanic.

568
00:46:21.669 --> 00:46:22.489
Dave Epstein: love. That.

569
00:46:22.490 --> 00:46:26.229
Dr. Kirk Adams: If you want to be a cyber security analyst, if you want to be a threat hunter

570
00:46:26.420 --> 00:46:31.860
Dr. Kirk Adams: for cyber, there's blind people doing that. If you want to own own a restaurant.

571
00:46:32.160 --> 00:46:38.280
Dr. Kirk Adams: there's blind people doing that. So you use those tools you use. Use those search engines.

572
00:46:38.927 --> 00:46:43.400
Dr. Kirk Adams: There's there's communities like, I say, formal and informal everywhere.

573
00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:48.739
Dr. Kirk Adams: There's obviously the American Council of the Blind National Federation of the Blind. Have chapters, so

574
00:46:48.810 --> 00:46:51.089
Dr. Kirk Adams: don't don't try to do it alone.

575
00:46:52.130 --> 00:46:55.950
Dave Epstein: Love that so ask for help and advocate.

576
00:46:56.180 --> 00:46:56.960
Dr. Kirk Adams: That's it.

577
00:46:56.960 --> 00:46:58.113
Dave Epstein: That's awesome

578
00:47:01.150 --> 00:47:16.946
Dave Epstein: priceless info absolutely priceless information to to be passing along, and that that was really my next. My next question is, what what are we as a community not addressing? Or what do we need to be doing to continue to move forward?

579
00:47:17.610 --> 00:47:26.119
Dave Epstein: Well, I don't. I don't want to dilute this at all. You absolutely crush this this conversation with minimal questions on my end. I'm I'm I'm just excited.

580
00:47:26.120 --> 00:47:29.799
Dr. Kirk Adams: Let let's have it to be continued. I'd love to. I'd love to talk more.

581
00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:38.360
Dave Epstein: To begin, but I have to. I can't end it without asking this one question that's been burning in my mind ever since. Honestly, ever since I met you, and realized that you

582
00:47:39.160 --> 00:47:44.170
Dave Epstein: lost your vision at such an early age. And now look at where you are today.

583
00:47:44.210 --> 00:47:52.189
Dave Epstein: and and and this is, if you don't mind. This is a bit more of a a personal question, not a not professional, more of a personal question.

584
00:47:53.900 --> 00:48:03.580
Dave Epstein: If someone were to approach you today, you know. Put his hand on your shoulder and say, Kirk, I can cure you right now. Drink this 12 ounce, whatever it is.

585
00:48:03.610 --> 00:48:09.119
Dave Epstein: and and tomorrow morning you'll have your full site back. Would you do it?

586
00:48:09.120 --> 00:48:10.740
Dr. Kirk Adams: In 2 seconds.

587
00:48:10.740 --> 00:48:11.670
Dave Epstein: You would.

588
00:48:11.670 --> 00:48:12.030
Dr. Kirk Adams: In 2.

589
00:48:12.030 --> 00:48:13.297
Dave Epstein: And okay, terrific.

590
00:48:14.020 --> 00:48:19.700
Dr. Kirk Adams: I would I would love to see what my beautiful, lovely bride looks like. I'd like to see what my kids look like.

591
00:48:19.700 --> 00:48:20.960
Dave Epstein: Ours is amazing.

592
00:48:22.112 --> 00:48:24.370
Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. I mean, life would be easier.

593
00:48:24.790 --> 00:48:25.140
Dave Epstein: Okay.

594
00:48:25.140 --> 00:48:32.160
Dr. Kirk Adams: I'm not going to sugarcoat it. I mean, it's it's challenging. You have to figure things out. You have to do extra stuff, but you have to.

595
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:34.170
Dr. Kirk Adams: That's expensive.

596
00:48:34.390 --> 00:48:42.009
Dr. Kirk Adams: and you have to pay for extra stuff. There. There's a thing called expanded core curriculum, Dave, which was developed by American foundation for the blind doctor.

597
00:48:42.290 --> 00:48:43.540
Dr. Kirk Adams: Phil Hatlin.

598
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:45.879
Dr. Kirk Adams: And it basically said it was for

599
00:48:46.210 --> 00:48:53.239
Dr. Kirk Adams: school kids. Basically said, the blind kid has to learn everything the sighted kids have to learn, and 9 more things.

600
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:59.310
Dr. Kirk Adams: And with how do you how to travel independently with the mobility, aid a cane.

601
00:48:59.680 --> 00:49:01.910
Dr. Kirk Adams: assistive technology

602
00:49:02.060 --> 00:49:03.380
Dr. Kirk Adams: advocacy?

603
00:49:04.805 --> 00:49:05.610
Dr. Kirk Adams: Braille

604
00:49:06.877 --> 00:49:09.860
Dr. Kirk Adams: so from from from the get.

605
00:49:10.260 --> 00:49:15.340
Dr. Kirk Adams: It's extra work, hard work, extra challenges, frustrations.

606
00:49:15.390 --> 00:49:16.760
Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh, my gosh, I

607
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:19.970
Dr. Kirk Adams: you know every week I probably encounter

608
00:49:20.940 --> 00:49:33.570
Dr. Kirk Adams: a dozen accessibility issues with websites and apps, trying to fill out a simple form, and it says, You know, check, check the checkbox to agree, and there's not an accessible checkbox for me to check

609
00:49:33.710 --> 00:49:36.609
Dr. Kirk Adams: or to complete the process.

610
00:49:36.990 --> 00:49:40.330
Dr. Kirk Adams: Scan the QR code on your screen.

611
00:49:41.740 --> 00:49:45.663
Dr. Kirk Adams: Don't know where it is. So yeah, I mean it. It's

612
00:49:47.020 --> 00:49:54.210
Dr. Kirk Adams: It's challenging, frustrating, tiring, expensive. But what what's the alternative?

613
00:49:54.210 --> 00:49:54.630
Dave Epstein: Don't!

614
00:49:54.630 --> 00:49:56.830
Dr. Kirk Adams: The alternative is not to move forward.

615
00:49:56.900 --> 00:50:01.980
Dr. Kirk Adams: and not to not to try to achieve those those things that mean thriving to you.

616
00:50:02.250 --> 00:50:05.989
Dr. Kirk Adams: whatever that is to you. But there are ways to

617
00:50:06.060 --> 00:50:12.719
Dr. Kirk Adams: to get there, and there's people who know how to do it, who can share that information with you and support you.

618
00:50:13.611 --> 00:50:17.120
Dr. Kirk Adams: Also, just, you know, emotionally.

619
00:50:17.686 --> 00:50:24.419
Dr. Kirk Adams: I certainly did not pay much attention to that for a long, long time in my life. I just kind of kept

620
00:50:25.910 --> 00:50:36.280
Dr. Kirk Adams: crashing, crashing forward. But you know, it's it's emotional labor involved. And I think it's I think it's important to acknowledge that

621
00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:38.000
Dr. Kirk Adams: as well okay.

622
00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:40.050
Dave Epstein: Fascinating.

623
00:50:41.709 --> 00:50:47.299
Dave Epstein: I love your responses. I really do. You've got such a a fresh perspective.

624
00:50:47.530 --> 00:50:48.410
Dave Epstein: but

625
00:50:49.120 --> 00:50:57.040
Dave Epstein: different than mine. My my response is slightly different. But I really appreciate where you're coming from and yours, and

626
00:50:57.924 --> 00:51:01.870
Dave Epstein: gives Lot lots, lots. Pause to think, pause to reflect.

627
00:51:01.870 --> 00:51:03.039
Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, and if you want.

628
00:51:03.040 --> 00:51:03.609
Dave Epstein: You're touching.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: With me. I have a consulting

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Dr. Kirk Adams: practice. Now. I mostly focus on

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Dr. Kirk Adams: accelerating employment of people who are blind. I work with companies to help them do that. I'm also

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Dr. Kirk Adams: an advisor to, and a shareholder in the

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Dr. Kirk Adams: 3 different startups in the wireless tech space.

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Dave Epstein: Hmm! But.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: I have a innovative impact. Llc is my consulting business. So I have a website, innovative impact dot consulting.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: And there's a little contact form there. If anyone wants to get in touch, I'm also on Linkedin every single day.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: so feel free to reach out Kirk Adams, Phd. On Linkedin.

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Dave Epstein: Terrific. You see, you're you're you're even answering the question I was just about to ask, how can we keep in touch with you? How can we follow your? How can we.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, yeah.

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Dave Epstein: In your awesome awake of successes.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Innovative impact, consulting and Linkedin Kirk Adams. Phd. That's it.

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Dave Epstein: Appreciate. Appreciate that. Truly someone to keep an eye on. I'm sorry no pun intended or pun intended. Let's follow Kirk. Dr. Kirk Adams. He really is an innovator. In

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Dave Epstein: business, an amazing advocate for for us our blind and low vision community.

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Dave Epstein: Dr. Kirk Adams. It's been an amazing honor having you on board with us today and as requested. This is not the 1st or only chat we will have. I want to see you sitting across desk for me in the near near future.

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Dave Epstein: In the meantime dust off your boots.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. Well, I will tell you.

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Dave Epstein: Don't worry.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: In New York City. I could have used an urban explorer cane because I had cane stepped on and broken more than once.

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Dave Epstein: You know, and that's what they're there for.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Town, Manhattan.

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Dave Epstein: Cannot wait to get one in your hands, so I'm guessing an extra large. We'll we'll size one up for you

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Dave Epstein: the the tools for success. Alright, Dr. Adams, appreciate your presence. Thank you so so much. Have an amazing rest of your day today.

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Dr. Kirk Adams: Thank you, Sedona. Dave.

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Dave Epstein: Be well