Supper with Sylvia #6 Josh Noel and The Book on Malort

Malort, for many the word alone brings a shiver through the spine or warm nostalgia for a cold night in a Chicago tavern.  This gulp of bitterness harkens back to its Swedish roots of vodka and wormwood and has been described as just about the worst tasting liqueur on the bar room shelf.  Like kale and Brussels sprouts, Malort has been around for decades, it's just recently that a whole new generation of Chicagoans and now Americans across the country have embraced it. Sales are booming. On this episode of Supper with Sylvia, Josh Noel, author and former Chicago Tribune travel and food writer, takes us on the journey of Malort and why this shot with notes of bitterness, loneliness, grapefruit and dirty rubber bands is all the rage.

The Show Notes:

Malort, The Redemption of a Revered Reviled Spirit by Josh Noel

joshnoel.com


This episode of Supper with Sylvia is produced by Jane Stephens
Music and audio engineering provided by Donnie Cutting

Check out SupperwithSylvia on Instagram.
Email us at SupperwithSylvia@gmail.com

Transcript

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It's the Chicago drink those in the know love to hate and those who don't know wonder why, just why. finish reminds me of chewing on rubber bands and not just any rubber bands, like dirty rubber bands. Jepson's Malord has Swedish roots but is a Chicago liqueur with a fascinating history. It's been around for more than 100 years. So why has it survived and what is it about this liqueur that has withstood the taste of time

despite its roller coaster existence and what some call its vile flavor. Those questions and more are all answered in a new book by beer and travel writer, Josh Noel. Today, we talk to him about the fascination, how Jepson's Malord is really a love story and why Chicagoans view it as a civic badge of pride to our city. Welcome to this episode of Supper with Sylvia.

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Josh Noel, it is such a pleasure to meet you. Welcome to Sefer with Sylvia. Thanks. Hi Sylvia, nice to meet you. Yeah, you know, Josh, you and I have lived in this city for a long time and I can't believe we've never run into each other. Before we get into this book, I want to explain how you got here. So you've been a Tribune, you were a Tribune writer for a long time and understand that you did beer and travel. I'm like, how does somebody get a job being a beer and travel writer? I want that.

Yeah, I this question because the answer is I'd love to say it's skill, but it's really luck. I was hired as the I was a news writer for the Tribune at first. The travel job came open and I applied for it thinking who wouldn't want to be a travel writer. I got that job and then did that. And travel and food were under the same broad umbrella. And I had an interest in beer, which the food editor knew when he pulled me aside one day in 2009 and said, when you're not traveling,

do you mind just keeping an eye on this craft beer thing starting to happen in Chicago? And I thought, sure, because the only thing better than being a travel writer is being a travel and beer writer. And so over time, as the craft beer industry became a bigger and bigger part of Chicago, I spent more of my time covering it. So I just became a travel and beer writer. And that's what I did for about 10 years at the trip. Super fun. And so your travel and beer experiences would take you to bars.

Tell me how you learned about Malort and what made you decide to write the book. Well, it was hard not to be aware of Malort at a certain point. It's been around since Prohibition, started to find a new audience in Chicago in about 2008, 2009. Just sort of a new generation of drinker found value in this thing that had been around forever.

And it was around then that I just sort of came on my radar and I tasted it and thought, huh, that's different. It's very bitter and I haven't really tasted anything like that. I didn't hate it at all as a lot of people do. I won't say I loved it either, but I was sort of intrigued by it. And then of course, as a journalist, I became very intrigued by it because it was clearly just becoming part of the cultural fabric of Chicago in a way that it hadn't. It was this sort of

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punch line and afterthought and this weird thing that your old aunt and uncle drank, you know, back in the day. But suddenly this new generation was really finding an appreciation for it. How did I come up with the idea of writing the book? Is I was having a shot in my kitchen, because I do enjoy it. I don't drink it all the time, but one night after a big meal, I took a shot and just had this lightning bolt moment of awareness.

where I realized people are really interested in this stuff now, and we know very little of the backstory. And what we do know didn't make a whole lot of sense. It raised more questions, really, than it answered. And I thought, well, let me see if there's a book-length answer to the question of how did Malort become what it has become? And I wasn't sure. took a couple months of reporting. But after a couple months, I was...

realized I had really compelling characters and a really interesting story. Well, it is very interesting. And it's amazing to me still how unfamiliar a lot of people are in Chicago with Malort and what it is. So for people who are listening who also are not from Chicago, they've likely never heard of it. Give me your Cliff's Notes version of the history of Malort and how it became a Chicago thing.

That's a big question, but I'll condense it for you. It's called Jepsen's Malort. And there was a Swedish immigrant named Carl Jepsen who introduced it to really his fellow Swedes. He wasn't trying to introduce it to Chicago back during prohibition. So Malort is something very simple. It's neutral spirit, vodka, basically aged on wormwood, which is a very bitter herb and that gets a little bit of sugar, very small amount of sugar. And in Southern Sweden, where Carl Jepsen was from, this is a very well understood

thing that you drink for after dinner to settle the stomach or even for medicinal purposes. And so he was selling it to his fellow Swedish immigrants and they knew exactly what it was. And so he had a built a small, but built in audience in 1935. Carl was about 70 and he sold the brand to a young liquor executive named George Brody, who ran a liquor company in Chicago. And this company had a line of spirits targeted to different immigrant populations.

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So this slotted it nicely into the portfolio. And so he just operated as part of the broader portfolio. In the early 50s, George got out of the liquor business. He was also a, a law degree from Northwestern, to practice law, but kept, sold his whole portfolio, but kept one brand and kept, that was Jepson's Mallort. So George operated Mallort really as his hobby and his life's work and passion for decades. Practicing law, but just doing the Mallort.

thing on the side, taking out ads in the Tribune, in the Sun Times, and the Daily News back when that was a thing, and found an audience for it with working class, blue collar factory guys back in the late 60s, early 70s. But really, Mallort was never a very big thing. George died in 1999, so he'd owned it for almost 65 years. And when he died, he left it to a woman named Pat Gablick who had worked as his secretary.

So that was one thing that sort of raised my eyebrow when I wondered about writing a book was why did he leave it to his secretary exactly? I wonder if there's an interesting wrinkle to that story. And of course there was, and she was very open with me about that and that's all spelled out in the book. But anyway, so Pat operates Mollert out from George's death for about 10 years and it's continually doing nothing, barely selling anything. And in about 2008, as I said, this new generation of drinker

discovers Malort and it's got decades of history, which was very attractive and had Chicago authenticity, which was very attractive and it had a really strong polarizing taste and sort of point of view about it. And that just really resonated with a new generation of drinker. And it from 2008 on the sales just grew and grew and grew and Malort reached heights that even George Brody, even Carl Jepsen,

never could have fathomed in the bars of Chicago. And now it's huge in Chicago, and it's actually sold in more than 30 states. now, it used to be, Malort was kind of an exclusive Chicago thing, wasn't it? Exactly, yeah. For decades and decades, you could get it only in Chicago. And that's because no one else knew about it or cared about it or wanted it. But as

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word started to spread and people discovered it, that the legend was born. People would actually be mulling bottles of Malort back to bars in New York and Los Angeles and Minnesota and all over the place. So when the brand ultimately sold, the new owner said, well, geez, let's actually expand distribution. in the last 10 years, it's gone from being available only in Chicago to now more than 30 states. Wow. Okay. So

What do you think it was that made it get the resurgence that it has now had? So this I knew was really important question that had to be answered in the book. If the book was going to be worth anything, how did Malort became what it became? And that's really one of the most interesting things to me in the whole narrative. And the answer, it's more than Malort. And it's certainly not anything Pat Gablick did. She'd be the first one to tell you that. But there was this cultural change that happened. And we just.

What we valued in what we ate and drank changed. And it's reflected in a lot of different ways. There is the whole rise of craft beer. People were looking for sort of these more ambitious and bolder flavors in what they were drinking. But it's also in what we ate. A parallel that really struck me was kale, of all things. In the 1990s, no one ate kale. Now,

Kale's being eaten in all directions. It's in our smoothies and in our salads. I talked to a restaurant owner who started up in the nineties in Chicago and he said, if you told me today, by 2024, Brussels sprouts would be the biggest selling side item for me on my menu. would have in the nineties, I would have said, you're nuts. But we're just, eating more bitter and interesting things. So there was this shift in how we thought about flavor and what we wanted.

in Malort was just sort of hiding in broad site, offering bitterness and astringency and a really strong point of view. And so that was something that we culturally just had no interest in for a long time. By 2008, 2009, 2010, that became something that was really intriguing to people. And again, it's what I mentioned before, that Malort was unique to Chicago. Local became a really important part of how we ate and drank.

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It had history and authenticity and it just struck this new generation of eater and drinker in a way that it hadn't before. And we'll be right back.

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So it's interesting too, because for people who are listening and have never had Malort, Josh, you said you didn't mind it. I tried Malort for the very first time. It was right after the pandemic. I think it was 2021. And I was at the Duck Inn in Chicago. I don't know if you've been there, if you're familiar with that place. So they have an amazing bartender mixologist. I don't know what you call him. Brandon Phillips. He's in charge of all of their beverage.

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So we're sitting out in the back and I had heard of it and he looked at me and he said, you have never had Malort. And I said, no, I haven't. goes, are you serious? Because he was shocked because I've been in Chicago for so long. And I said, no, I haven't. And he said, Sylvia, that is how much Chicago loves you. So see Josh, a lot of people don't necessarily think Malort is so great. So I tried it and it's, I want you to kind of describe this to other people, but this is what happened to me.

I tried it. First I smelled it. Didn't think anything of it. Then I took my first sip and it took a second and I was like, okay, I don't know if I like this. And then boom, it hit me like a brick. I thought, this is horrible. Why in the world would anybody ever want to drink this? And the taste to me was like a grapefruit gone bad. It was just so awful. And that's what kind of the fun, kitschy thing about this is, right? Is that

you like to give it to somebody who is unsuspecting. This has become a thing and the whole malort face has become a thing because when you drink it, like I did, you make the malort face, right? Yes, all fair, all accurate. That was very much what got a lot of the energy behind it in the early days was the giving it to someone and surprising them and malort face and taking a picture of how they looked and

sharing it on social media and people thinking, this is terrible. But it was also more than that. And that's why it's continued to grow. I think people did find legitimate affection for it. But sometimes even in their distaste of it, they could sort of slug it down like medicine, but it was also this civic badge of pride in Chicago. It was ours. And again, it's the fact that it is

chalice that challenging to drink i think that great for it is a fair way to put it is is strangely part of the appeal it it transcends simply being a brand of liquor to being an experience and a shared experience and so it's one that no one ever has their first taste of the work and then just gets on with their day you always walk away from that first taste with the story to tell and you'll remember where you were

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It's like exactly what you just did, where you were, who you were with, the circumstances. And that's what that's sort of the power of it and how it was able to resonate culturally and become what it's became. But some people do. I mean, there's also a lot of precedent, as you know, for drinking dinner spirits after dinner, right? To settle the stomach. mean, that's in a lot of European countries, especially. So there's there's there's some broader cultural context for appreciating it. But yes, it is.

as a very strong point of view, as I like to say. And a of people just truly hate it, but a lot of people also really sort of admire it, even in their distaste for it. I'm one of those. I do admire it in my distaste for it, but I also love that it's a Chicago thing. It's what brings us Chicagoans together, and there's nothing more fun than to share that experience with somebody from out of town. And their first question is,

why in the world would you ever want to drink this? Mostly because I want to see their reaction. And it's, understand if you go to bars, a lot of bartenders like to surprise patrons from out of state as a result as well. Yep, yep. That's the thing. And especially, so there's a bar called Scaflaw where they actually have it on draft. Right. And the owner of Scaflaw, I talked to him for the book, because they were the first bar to put it on draft.

which I thought was such a funny thing. And it was pretty radical back in, I think 2010 or 2011 when they did that. And he said probably at least half the Malort sales were locals from the neighborhood bringing their out of town friends to try it for the first time. Literally about half the sales were that. People love to initiate others with their first taste of Malort. Because again, you have guaranteed memorable experience waiting.

Okay, what is the saying in your book about one in 49 men who drink Malort? Tell everybody about that. Yeah, that's, George Brody, the guy who owned it for all those years, he, again, he operated it as a passion project and a hobby, and he fancied himself as a pretty clever marketer. So he tried to initially position Malort as sort of a high-end Tony product, something you must savor and sit with to appreciate, like oysters, clams, green olives.

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And that went nowhere. So then he decided to lean into Malort's brashness. And he actually would sort of dare his audience, are you man enough to drink our spirit? And he would write, our spirit is very off putting to many people. And that was one of the lines he came up with. Only one in 49 men, almost never women, can even tolerate Malort. So he was really having fun with it.

being kitschy as you say, and sort of leaning into the absurdity of the product and really trying to entreat people with this sort of chest thumping masculinity. And it worked. And that's part of, yeah, very macho. And that's kind of how we found his audience is in the small period of time that he actually had an audience. Again, it was about six or seven years, late sixties, early seventies that it really resonated pretty well with the working class blue collar factory guys.

Okay, describe what is the Chicago Handshake? The Chicago Handshake was very simply, it's a shot of Malort with an old style beer. So two Chicago legends paired on the bar. And what happened is that when Malort had its resurgence, people were taking the one shot and sort of reveling in how quote unquote bad it was. But the concern was that if people only ever

had the one shot and then we're done with it forever, that it could never grow, it could never go anywhere. So Pat Gablick, the woman who owned it for about 20 years after George's death, she had a couple of young guys, part of this new generation of Malour drinkers, reach out to her and say, they just loved the product so much, they wanted to work with her even for free. And so one of those guys was this guy named Sam Meckling, and Sam was really good at sort of,

guerrilla marketing. just sort of could sense how to talk to people about Malort. And so he and one of the local old style reps had the idea to sort of create an occasion where you would drink Malort more than just the one time, but you could go into a bar and have a repeated experience again and again. And so Sam came up with this when he, I believe he wasn't even on the payroll at the time. And now it

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continues to be a thing across Chicago. And you'll even see it in bars beyond Chicago. was at a bar in Denver last month, and they served the Chicago handshake. Wow. That's very cool. Yeah, it was just a really clever way to get people to keep drinking Malort, and it worked. It's been interesting to see how people describe it. It's been called botanical gasoline, the champagne of pain, like drinking water and cigarette ashes.

So for people who have never had it, how do you describe the taste of Malort? So exactly what you said, which is your first taste is like the first moment of impact is generally not so bad. It's really in the finish that you really get slugged on the tongue. So I think it's very much like biting a grapefruit, but it's like the grapefruit pith, not the grapefruit juice. And then the...

I haven't eaten a lot of rubber bands in my day, but the finish reminds me of chewing on rubber bands and not just any rubber bands, like dirty rubber bands. So anyone who's ever tasted it is probably thinking, why in God's name would you want to drink that? So here's the thing. If you like the flavor of grapefruit, I do. If you like bitter, I do. If you like astringent, I do. Then it's actually pleasant.

Believe it or not. But it's, it's just, it's the bitter, the dry, the astringent. And it's just like, and it all comes together in this really long rubber bandy finish, let's say. I love it. And not just rubber bands, but dirty rubber bands. yeah, the rubber bands that have been wrapped around all sorts of stuff for a long time. Wow. So you do drink it then? I do. I enjoy it. I do. Again, not, I'll have a shot every.

two or three weeks. I'm not pounding it left and right, but I always keep a bottle at home. I have even before I started working on the book. I enjoy it. I appreciate it. Especially after a really big meal. It really does settle the stomach. Yeah, because initially that isn't that what it was. It was supposed to kind of be medicinal, right? Exactly. And Wyrmwood actually, that's the key ingredient there, has decades of precedence or decades, really generations of precedence for use in

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medical contexts. So do you like to prank people with it? I don't. I don't think I've ever pranked anyone with it. I just, I tend to deal with it more head on. I talk to people about it and say, is this really interesting thing and it's very bitter and let's try it. And some people have the reaction, you know, the big, my God, this is the worst thing ever. Other people, barely blank. Cause again, I think our taste buds are.

a more attuned toward these kind of bigger, bolder flavors. people can make a little more intuitive sense of it by now in the year 2024 as we speak. But yeah, you'll get the range of reactions. Yeah, I think sometimes too, you everybody's taste buds are different. Like some people can't eat cilantro. Maybe some people can't drink Malort. Yeah, I think a lot more people can't drink Malort than can't eat cilantro.

Because we all love our guacamole. Okay, so what's the craziest thing you have ever heard about a Malort story or when you were doing your research for this? What is the one thing that really surprised you or stood out? I think the thing that stood out is really what I like most about the book, which is that the book is about Malort, right? Putting big air quotes around that. But really, like any good narrative, it's about people and relationships.

It's about why did George love Malort so much that he owned it for 65 years? Why did Pat run it for 20 years after George died? You know, it's about how George felt about Malort and how Pat felt about George. Why did I mention these young guys who started getting involved with Pat in the brand just out of their sheer love for Malort? Why did they love Malort so much? And how did their relationships with Pat

change and unfold. It's really, it's a story of people in relationships and sort of all this love and care always out of sight of the public view went into what Malort became. Malort could have and should have disappeared probably many times over the years, but there were just the way people felt about it and the way these people felt about other people in their lives allowed Malort to endure. And I think it's really ultimately a fascinating story to me.

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of people in relationships. And the beneficiary of that was, Mallort got to find its audience. Just it took 80 years, but Mallort endured and survived and ultimately thrived. It's funny you say that because that's exactly what I got from your book. You'll be happy to hear that, Because I thinking, in a way, this is a love story. That's what I thought. It's a love story. It's about, it's a love story between people and it's a love story with the Mallort and the passion because

When people read your book, you and I are only touching the surface. There's so much more that delves into the people involved and how it came about and the people who were not making any money. Pat and George owned it forever and they were not making any money until in the long run, Pat did benefit, did she? She did. And actually I want to go back real quick because I don't think I've shared this before in any of the interviews I've done, but the working title of the book as I was writing it was, Malort, a love story.

So I love that you said that. I appreciate felt it. And my publisher thought it was, and I think they were right that that would have been confusing to people as a title, but that was in my head. was the title of the book. Yeah, completely. I'm glad that you got exactly what I wanted you to. I'm so glad to hear that. Yes, and that's the amazing part of the narrative is it ends with, you know, it's sad in some ways.

but also things work out for her in this really nice way, against the odds, all because of Malort, who would have thought? Yeah, because she held onto it because it meant something to him, but she wasn't making any money out of it. So when it got sold to CH Distillery, did she become wealthy? Yeah, I never liked to say what she sold it for in interviews or in events, because I really like people to come onto that.

fact arrived there themselves that number had never been reported what she sold it for but i was able to find it and it is in the book but it pat grew up middle class at best i mean pat never really had much money jers was pretty well off he he was a lawyer he did okay he took care of pat a lot but she was always stressed about her finances and yet in the end malort provided her some some comfort let's say in her her retirement years

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which are ongoing. She's 81, I hope she doesn't mind me saying that. And she's still living in her condo on Lake Shore Drive. That's awesome. That is awesome. Okay. So I always ask people during my podcast what their favorite Chicago go-to restaurant, but because of what we're talking about, I want to know what is your favorite Chicago go-to bar? gosh, there's so many. You've got one that it's a standard that when you can't make up your mind, you always end up there.

Well, my kids are young enough that I don't get out to bars as much as I used to back in the day. I'll probably give a tip of the cap to a bar that actually is not much of a Malort bar, but it's the Hop Leaf in Andersonville. I just love what Michael Roper, the owner, has built there. I'm a huge beer guy and Michael's just one of the most thoughtful, wonderful bar restaurant operators in the city. And in fact,

even though he doesn't sell much Malort, I called him and interviewed him for the book just because I value how much he thinks about things. And he was the one who said that about the Brussels sprouts that I mentioned earlier. So he always informs how I think about things. So I love the hop leaf. I love what they've done there. And I'm sure a lot of your audience is probably well familiar with the hop leaf, but in case you're not, go there and have a really special experience. great recommendation. So.

Your book talks about how Malort would come and go in waves. At one point it was made in Florida, even though was still only a Chicago thing. Here all of sudden people are making cocktails with Malort, which by the way, I still have not had a Malort cocktail that I enjoyed. So if you know of where I can get one, let me know. So look for the hard sell. Do you remember the hard sell from the book? yes, yes. That is a very approachable Malort.

OK. It can be done, but the Malort needs to be used obviously very sparingly and in harmony with the other ingredients. It needs to be used right. And the hard sell really sort of put Malort on the map is something that could be taken seriously by, let's say, mixologists and used in a really elegant way. OK. I can't wait to try it. Do you think it's here to stay? You think Malort now will continue to survive despite its roller coaster past?

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That's a great question. Absolutely. And, and, but the interesting thing to me is that as recently as say 2010, the answer could have been easily could have been no. It there again, there are so many points where it could have gone away. Pat could have just hung it up at any time, but now that it's owned by CH and I mean, Pat operated Malert as a one, one woman company out of her apartment. CH is a proper distillery in business.

And they have plans and they have a marketing team and a sales team and they're all very good at what they do. And I think Mallert's place in the culture is very fixed now. I think it's part of the Chicago fabric and that's not going to change. mean, do I think it's going to be the next Tito's vodka? No. But has it found its place as this Chicago, really unique Chicago oddity that

really means something, again, not just as a brand, but culturally and as an experience, yes, and I don't think that's gonna change. Malert is here to stay. I love to hear that. And for people who are listening from Chicago, if you haven't tried it, you absolutely have to give it a shot. For people who live out of state, now they have the opportunity to try it. I want everybody to give it a shot. I want everyone to read your book. It was really a fun read, very interesting. I love the history involved. I love the love story involved, like I said.

What's happening for you in the future? What's up next? This is your second book. Yeah, this is book number two. It took six years to get from book one to book two. Hopefully it's a little less than that for book three. Right now I'm still very much in the mode of talking about this book and doing events and readings and interviews. And it's really just an absolute joy. But yeah, hopefully book number three will be out before too, too long. yeah, I'm going to keep telling stories.

That's name of the game. Keep promoting stories. Yep. This is a fun one. OK, so again, the name of the book is Malort, the redemption of revered and reviled spirit. And where can people buy it? Everywhere? Everywhere. Yeah, it's on it's on that website where we buy all that stuff. It's at Barnes and Noble, but it's also you can get it through your local indie bookstore and through my website. I've been selling signed copies because people really like that, especially if they have a history with the brand and I'll send them.

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and all that. That's fun too. Very fun. Josh, great to meet you in person. Hope to run into you and maybe we can take a shot of Malort together sometime. Sylvia, I would love that. A shot of Malort and then we're going to find a hard sell too. Because I think you'll really enjoy that. I am in. Okay. Thanks again. Great to meet you. Yeah, likewise. Thank you so much. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Supper with Sylvia.

I'm Sylvia Perez. This podcast was produced by Supper with Sylvia with technical support and music by Donnie Cutting.