What 4 Countries Taught One Expat Spouse About Identity and Home: Rika Bouffe

For Rika Bouffe, Indonesian by birth, married to a French husband, and an expat spouse who has built a life across Indonesia, France, the United States, and India, home was never going to be a fixed address. It had to become something else entirely.

In this episode, Rika shares one of the most honest and layered conversations we've had on Rooted and Routed. She talks about observing Ramadan as a minority in Western countries, where the absence of community led to something unexpected — deeper personal reflection. She talks about pausing a career that had spanned logistics, IT, L'Oréal, and education, and how volunteering became the bridge between who she was professionally and who she was becoming. She talks about raising children between cultures, the guilt that comes with every move, and the quiet work of passing on values when everything else keeps changing.

And she arrives at something that will stay with you long after the episode ends. Identity is not fragmented by living across cultures. It is layered. Every country adds something. Nothing is lost.

In this episode:

— Ramadan across four countries and what changes, what doesn't 

— Why Rika's identity feels different in Indonesia than it does in the West 

— The identity gap a career pause creates and how volunteering fills it 

— Raising third culture kids and answering the question: where is home? 

— Cross-cultural marriage, language and the patience it requires 

— Why home is not a place, it's wherever the family is together

Wherever you are in your global journey, this one is for you.

Rooted and Routed is a global mobility and cross-cultural storytelling podcast hosted by Sabiya Pathan Withoeck. New episodes every week.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, I'm Sabia. Welcome back to Rooted in Route Podcast. We are having this conversation during the month of Ramadan. And what a beautiful month to reflect how traditions travel with us and also how identity evolves. Today we have a truly global lived guest, the one who have worked in different industries, have been in different professions in countries, and in different roles as a professional, as a mother of two, and somebody who continues to evolve across the globe. Her name is Rika Buff. So let's unpack her journey and get inspired. Let's get started. Hi Rika. Hi, Savia. Welcome to Rooted and Routed Podcast. Thank you so much. You're welcome. So being an Indonesian, married to a French, lived in the US and now living in India as an expert, that's four different societies, which really has this different cultural rhythms. Does Ramadan feel like the same month everywhere? Or does it transform depending on where you are? You know what? Like for me, uh spiritually, Ramadan feel always the same for me. It's just like you know, the moment of um you reconnect with faith, and then also it's about patience, also about you know um reflection. Yeah. But the asthma atmosphere is totally different, of course, it depending on where you are, actually. Yeah. And has it been more of an adjustment that you had to do, you know, within these four. I mean, of course, your home country, yeah. I know you have been raised in Muslim countries. Yeah. But the other countries, I think it was different, and you had to adjust a lot. Or it comes like naturally, like, okay, it is different. So yeah. Yeah, of course. I mean, like in Indonesia, Ramadan, it's very collective, you know, because like um we are like um you really have like uh the sense of the same movement, yeah, you know, for uh like you have access to the Islam and also about the community. Like when I was in French, I was in the US, and now I'm in India. Like I have to have this kind of app to know when the Azen is and it's something like that, you know. In Indonesia, all of the mosques, they do AZAN like five times a day. So you didn't have any kind of remind reminder of something like that, you know. And then when I live in the US, it was different. So to be honest, from the three countries that uh I lived in, uh US was very, I have like a good memory there in Houston because uh there we have like a big uh Indonesian community, and then there's like a big mosque where all of Indonesians gather there. Of course, the mosque is like uh open for everyone, of course. But you know, uh this mosque like initiated by Indonesian. So it's just like kind of home for us, you know, when like during even like during Ramadan, people gather, like Indonesia loves to do Gotong Royong. You know, Gotong Royong is like um uh when people gather together to help each other. So yeah, like a community help. Exactly, exactly. So what uh we did there in uh this mask, then the name of the mask is Istriklal.

unknown 3:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

So normally like some months people or Ramadan, uh people which hey, Ramadan is coming. Do you want to participate? Because we we just like um gather and then like do iftar, prepare iftar together. And then you know, like of course uh sometimes we do like um kids can learn something there, everyone can learn something there. So Ramadan feels different there. Uh so and then you know, I love I love it. So how many numbers are you talking about? Approximately the community. How big was that? Oh, I don't know, maybe thousands? Thousands, yeah. Yeah, and in just like in Texas, in Houston. Houston, so yes, yes. Wow, yeah. It's a huge number. Yeah, yeah. And that does then make you feel like I'm not that much away from home, isn't it? Exactly. I feel like, oh, I'm like home, far from home. Yeah, yeah. You know, like one of the one of the guests in the past episodes have mentioned that Asian countries have this uh feeling like collectiveness. Yep. There is a collectiveness, as you mentioned. Yeah, and the Western countries are more individualistic. So you feel quite separated. And the ones like in Asia, so if at all you have any issue, if you want to go somewhere and you don't have anybody to look after your child or your child is sick or something that you don't have at home, you can immediately contact your neighbor.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

That I don't think so it's possible in France that okay, you can get up at the neighbor's door and say, I don't know, maybe I don't have a sugar. Do you have some sugar? You know, like our medicines, you can do that. Yeah, in India as well, we can still do that. So I agree, but I can I can imagine that that community feeling must be different. Yeah, yeah. And with these four different societies and the cultural things that you have lived in, cultural rhythms. Yeah. Uh do you think Ramadan changed more because of the country you were in, or because you were in a different season of like each time? Now let me in in this question, I'll say season is two things. Season is one that you are going through a phase of life, and the other season I'm referring to is literally the weather season. Because uh if the weather is different, the way you celebrate eid, or even yeah, fast, that's gonna be different. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think it's both, you know, like honestly, um the country I'm in definitely change um the experience, of course. But the stage of life also plays a big role. Yeah, you know, like growing up in Indonesia, Ramadan feels very alive, like you know, the whole environment uh also supported, like people fasting together, we do iftar together, and then everything is very accessible. And then, you know, like you can go to the mosque, mosque will be full every night, you can like do uh iftar, and then also you will be close to your family. Yeah, so Ramadan, like um like uh but actually like Ramadan is everywhere, but naturally you can feel the spirit of it, even you are not in you know in your own um home country, yeah. Yeah. But uh when I start to live in like um like become a minority, uh of course the atmosphere is much quieter. But it's just like um Ramadan is still there, of course. Yeah, but the way um you see or you feel is um different. Like in the beginning it was very hard for me, of course. Like, you know, being like, oh everything is easy, Ramadan is there, but suddenly your life like twists it, and then like, oh, there's nothing, Ramadan is very quiet here, where's everybody? I'm the one who's celebrating this, I'm the one who does it. So it's kind of hard at first, you know. But um at the same time, I just realized that now my life has changed. It's not the Ramadan changed, but me, I changed. Uh, you know, just like I remember when I was a child, Ramadan was something that I was waiting for, you know, because that time I knew that I could play with my friends. Like I can enjoy uh what is happening in Ramadan, the festive, what uh you as a kid will get during Ramadan. The media, you're saying that at the end of the yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, like during Ramadan, sometimes you you know you can ask, oh, your mom will be like when you fast, you know your mom will give you something. So in the in the middle of the month as well, it's yeah, sometimes, well, sometimes you no, I mean like not about like something like a gift, but at least Mom, uh, I want, can you cook this for me? Can you you know in the yeah, special for yeah, exactly? Yeah. So um in a way, like uh bothing shape my Ramadan, you know. Um the place changed the atmosphere, but growing older and then doing the new role is like um change the meaning of Ramadan for me. Yeah as a mother changes, right? Yep, and I think that will continue to evolve because that's not gonna be a how do I say a stagnant or a constant thing, right? Of course life changes, you change, yeah, places change. Our face change feelings change, yes, evolve, change or evolve, but they do different things, they change, it evolves, yes. So as as Ramadan comes to an end, right? Because right now we are recording during Ramadan and you're almost close to the end of it. Eid is such a big celebration, as you mentioned as well in your home country. In fact, globally, whoever is celebrating, it's quite big. You must have experienced it in a different way. As you said, uh collectiveness of this festive. Now, since you're married uh to a French family, into a French family, how has the way you celebrate Eid changed? Did you blend it, have got your own tradition, or something that you carried from your childhood? So growing up in Indonesia, it must be like a big celebration, of course, as you mentioned, yeah. But I've like, I mean, visiting a friend, visiting family, extended family, and then also, you know, sharing meal, ask for given this, because as you know, it is like um your restart button. Yeah. Reset. Yes, exactly. So um now I'm married to like a French. So everything is like need to adapt, you know. Um marrying a French family, living abroad, everything changed, and then sometimes now it becomes like a smaller celebration when sometimes you just uh celebrate with your like initiate family or your close friend. If you found some who also celebrate it, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, but in a way, um, it becomes more meaningful, like um because uh consciously you choose with tradition and then to keep uh and then which you you think like which one to create because now your life evolves, you cannot be like um stay in the same, you know, in the same past because life changed. So life changes, your roles change. So moving on to the roles that we have you have uh achieved and lived, moving on to the identity now across the borders has moving so much made you more certain about who you are or more open to changing? I think it's both, to be honest. Like moving between different countries has made me more certain about some part of who I am that I have never recognized before, but at the same time it made me so much more open to change, you know. It's like uh when you live in different cultures, you naturally start to question like things like you used to take for granted because like you oh everything was there for me, but now everything changed. Like you see that people can live differently, uh but they still have to manage the meaningful uh life and strong values, of course. And then um the experience for me the experience make makes you feel like open-minded. Yeah, yeah. I have an example of something of the situation personally, okay, yeah. And I'm sure you will also have that. Um things that we take for granted is the food. Exactly. And you move on and you kind of have nice grocery store, whether it is US or France, and then you don't get what you are used to. Yeah. And then you realize, oh my god, uh, your mom was cooking, let's say, and you enjoyed that meal, yeah. You want to recreate the same for your kids now. Yeah, and you don't have that. So these are the things I think did you also experience the same thing? Of course, of course. Just like uh sometimes my kids like uh, yeah, mommy, I want can you please cook this? Like the grandma said, uh, did I so it's like, yeah, I wish, but you know, sometimes I cannot find that specific ingredients here or there. So yeah, everything changed. And is there a version of youth that only comes alive in certain cultures? This is a very beautiful question because there are warm countries, there are cold countries. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, not just I'm working, but not in temperature wise. Um I'm trying to say in terms of uh the collective uh ness and the individualistic societies. So the Western countries are always referred as individualistic. And there, oh, you will see yourself in a different way. I mean when you are in India, which is a warm country, lively, you know, the sun is out there, uh, it's more colorful, it's vibrant, and it's diverse. There, I'm sure you will see yourself in a very different way. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, is is it true that that okay is from cultures from one culture to the other culture, you are different? Yeah. Well, actually that's a very interesting question. Yeah, thank you. But uh I wouldn't say that I am now a completely different person. Like uh, but I do think like certain parts of me um come out more depending on the culture I'm in. So, for example, when I'm in Indonesia, I feel uh like a strong sense of community, and then I become more social, more relaxed because you know I'm home, of course. And then uh also in Indonesia, this is where I grew up. So I really like I'm feeling like I'm very natural there. But uh when I like um live in places like you know, France, the US, everything different, of course. Like um I think like uh I was more independent there, and then the independent side of me was more become stronger, of course. Oh, okay, that way, okay, and that's in case you know like living there uh pushes you to adapt, of course, because everything changed, and then um to be more self-relei, and then sometimes more outspoken. It's very different between like uh Indonesia become Indonesian and then living out of uh like in the place like France and US. And then now I'm living in in India. Uh um I feel like I'm constantly like uh learning and then observing again how like a life here, so I need to learn something new, you know. And then I wouldn't say that there's a completely different version of who I am, but uh different cultural culture, uh really bringing out different layers of me, to be honest. No, it's just like oh, I just want myself. Oh, Rika. So something that I never knew that, you know. You're self-aware. Exactly. Exactly. Uh you become more aware of your own identity, which was different in your home country. Yep. And and I think that does the work professional career does that for you, isn't it? Yeah, that creates an identity. I relate to that point, yes, because now when you must be going home, you're trying to capture or relive the ones that you have lived as your as a child. Yep. But then you're not a child, you're actually grown it and you've experienced so much in the life that it's nice to think about it, but you cannot relive that. You cannot recreate your childhood. Yeah. Traditions are there, but you are different. Yeah. Just like somewhere there, but now I'm no longer there. How to say it? I don't know, I know. I don't know how to translate it, you know. I think this is this is the situation for everybody who have moved on from their home country. Yeah, they want to come and they want to, I don't know, hold on to something. They have held on to something, but when they come back and want to relive, I think there's something missing, you know? There's a gap. There's like a one big puzzle there missing, but I don't know where the puzzle is just like you know, a big, I don't know, hole. I feel like you you as if uh we move on, but the place is still there. Yeah. And you're going in the future and you're kind of coming back in the past, and yeah, I know what you're saying. Yep, yep, yep. Well, that is that is a beautiful one. And then all of this, what is small for you now? Uh as part of uh adaptation, right? What is small for you? Food is something that is small. Ah, I can I can adapt to that, no problem. Or is it um the communication that is what you have to adapt? Well, um, to be honest, both are like uh something important for me. Food and communication stuff. Of course. Well, if I have to like, you know, put which one is the first, which one is the second. Okay. Maybe communication first, of course. Uh-huh. And then the one it the second one in food. Food which is smaller. Yeah. When it comes to I cannot survive without Indonesian food. Oh my. Okay. Okay. I I can imagine. Can you imagine like being like you being Indian when the food are so tasty? And then you're going back to Europe or you're going somewhere in the US when the food is very different. In the US, you like you use very like um like minimum minimum ingredients, how we can say. And then when our food back home is you put ton of like a ton of spices. Yeah. So yeah, for me it was Well you know, for me it's a little bit different. Yeah. So I had a hard time adapting to the Belgian food, the Western rather more bland food. And I used to have this piripiri or cayenne pepper. So first uh pepper still doesn't impact, uh, nothing doesn't change. Uh then comes the cayenne pepper, ah, still doesn't change. Then comes the piripi, then the tabasco, and all of that together ah, maybe somewhere I can enjoy the weed. That's how it used to be. A layer of all the spicy things in my food. But then over the period of time, what I've seen is I enjoy land food. Okay. But it will be for 15 days. Oh, okay. After 15 days, you're limited. Yes. Yeah. I'm done. I know. And I now I need some spices, more flavors in the food. But that's how it is. 15 days, I can survive. But at least like you're brave 15 days. For me, like uh less than a week. Yeah? Three days without my like spice. I'll be like, oh my god. Okay, that but that is beautiful. I mean, that is different. You're different and I'm different than. You know, because sometimes when I coming back home and then they call me, hey, you foreigner, very simple. So, you know, like when I was living in France, like they call me, hey French, hey French, uh, like you know, I said, No, I'm not French, I'm Indonesian, you know. I if I don't eat rice today, I will like starving, you know. And then I don't have chili for like two days, I'll be like crapping for a lot. So, you know, people sometimes just like um thinking, yeah, she's no different, she's no longer Indonesian. I mean, like, I'm still in my heart, I am Indonesia. It's like Indonesia is me. Me in Indonesia both cannot be separated, you know. But yeah, sometimes people think like, yeah, see is different. But actually, I'm different, but it's not in not in that that way difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you mean. Yeah. And the same thing is with somebody else who is more into bland food. Yeah. And when they are into spicy food, a country where only spices exist, like Indonesia also have X packs, Malaysia also X packs. And imagine how they feel. If we cannot survive without spices for three days, and they I think maybe they'll be okay without spices for long, but it's hard, I know. Yeah. That's the beauty of cross-cultural uh situation. And this is about cross-cultural marriage. So in cross-cultural relationships, do you ever realize this is funny, okay? Do you re do you ever realize you're not just just agreeing to your partner? You're more constantly translating. So, you know, of course, I've definitely experienced this thing, of course. I mean, like, even like humor with the same culture, it still happened. Moreover, like like us, different culture, different way to think, uh, different way to see. Yeah. Um, but you know, um, sometimes you realize you're not actually disagreeing. Like uh you just you just realize you're coming from different cultural references, the way we communicate, and then also the way we express emotion or even show respect can be very different, of course, like depending on when we grew up, like western and eastern, of course, like the different body, yeah. So, like um in this moment, it feels less like an argument, but it's more like um how to say translating perspective. Exactly. For for me, I think it must be translating, right? Because yeah, uh you constantly, and also you're translating, but also trying to find the same depth of you know, if you're angry, yeah, and the way if you're angry in your language, yeah, it's different. The pro the way you project is different of the words. Yeah, your body language is different. Now the same body language, you cannot have it in a when you have to speak in French. You know what I'm saying? It's funny actually, because yeah, it's a constant battle of I want to say this, but I have to say it in in English, so I cannot have the same impact. So, how do I say that I'm actually angry? You're that angry, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I mean like um, but for me, like once you understand that, like it becomes like easier to be patient and also like courage uh instead of defensive, you know. Yeah. So and then because you just realized like both of us seeing a word through different lenses, you know, that's true. Yeah, yeah. But like um, sometimes I'm lucky because my husband can't speak Indonesian, and and there should be. He lived in Indonesia for two years uh before our marriage, and then that's how he learned it. So that's why now I can be, you know, expressing my skills in your own language, and then he will understand. Well, anyway, Indonesian is very easy though. You don't have like, you know, future or past, you just have to add one word and it becomes like future. You add one word, it becomes past. So it's very easy. You don't really like conjugate words or but in the beginning when he was not, yeah, when he didn't learn Indonesian. Give me an example if you're having a fight with So you just like you know, try to speak in English because back then I didn't speak French back then. Ah, okay. Yeah, yeah. So when you actually are angry, or let's say arguing or disagreeing to something, yeah, what is the language? English, French, or Indonesian? That's interesting. Indonesian. Because I need to express myself without like have to thinking about the grammar. Is the grammar correct? Or like do I conjugate the like the correct word or something? Like, what is this? What is that? Oh what is the passe in French? What is the, you know? So and how about him? Also, I'm like uh he will be expressing himself in French, and I can understand. Yeah, that's sort of many situations. So we both are like uh speaking our own language to express uh what we feel. So yeah, we both understand. Yeah, I wonder what the kids must be thinking and how what is their mode of communication in terms of getting angry or expressing themselves. I I don't know. No, my kids they uh at home they more like um speak uh French than Indonesia, yeah. But we are not allowed them to speak English at home. Yep. Yeah, I that I heard. That's true. Yeah, my son cannot speak in English to my husband, he speaks in Dutch. Yeah, has to whatever, big mistakes. Yeah. Like you choose uh Indonesian or uh French, but not English. English only when you are outside the house. Yeah, interesting. When it comes to kids, right? Yeah, you have raised, you are raising kids in different countries. That's another complicated layer that you live every year. And it's not gonna dissolve or it's not gonna change, or it is how it is. You're evolving, and this this role of motherhood raising kids in different countries, it's gonna be always there. Do they have a feeling of belonging to a certain country, calling it like a home? Once um my children ask me, yeah, like, mama, where's the home is? Where's our home is? So at the time as a mom, I feel like a little bit sad, you know, to be honest. Like um they are they are young. My kids they are still young. So, but uh in that certain age, like the young age, they have to feel that you know why life is moving or why like everything changed. So at the moment I would just like freeze, and then I stared uh to her eyes and then said, I'm sorry, uh sometimes that um it's a little bit different and confusing, uh you know, and then she asked me, Yeah, but where is the house is mama? Like uh is it in French? Is it in Jakarta or in Houston back then? And then I just like um I told her finally, just like you know what? Home is whenever you, your brother, mama, and papa, we are all together. Yeah, no matter where we are, as long as we are together, we are home. Yeah, so it just remind uh that, you know, it's just like yeah. Yeah, because it is how it is. Yeah, I mean like we don't really have that answer. I didn't add it in that because you know, like it's normal thing that they question us, like, why are we keeping moving, mommy? Like uh I don't know if it's happened also with Alias, but when we move here to Pune, uh both of them like uh no mommy, I want to go back to Houston. I don't want that, yeah. But here, you know, as a mom, you try to convince her, like uh yeah, there will be like a uh new friends and everything. No, I don't want to have new friends. I want my friends, I want my previous school. I don't want to be in this new school. Yeah, so yeah, the whole summer break here in India, they keep telling me that. So I was just like uh gosh, what should I do? You know, sometimes I don't know. I don't know you, but me to be honest, sometimes I don't know um if I misguide or like uh my children, uh or I'm just like, you know, I just pray to God that God, please, uh, this is my first time being a mother. Please lead me to like uh, you know, the good to the good path to lead them. Yeah. I think this this is called third culture kid. Yeah, right. So your country is different, your husband's country is different, and your kids are being raised in different countries, yeah, multiple, in fact. Uh, with this, it's normal to have this kind of a clash of identity. Where do I belong? Where is my home? Uh and whatever they like, they want to stick to it, isn't it? They don't want to change, especially at that age because they have friends and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

But what I've also realized is that uh the way you adapt is gonna be different than the way your kids are gonna be adapting. Right? Because uh their clash is different. It's it's much more than completely happening, uh internal identity for them still, they're learning about the the the culture, the religion, uh, the language, the food, all of that. I think it must be very overwhelming for the kid. But yeah, it is it is how it is, right? And there are millions of kids who are millions. Can I say millions? No, millions will be too much. Thousands. In fact, millions, yes. Millions of kids who are we are talking about like globally. There are millions of kids who are where the parents have moved to another country, not even as an expat, but migrated. Yeah, then of course, yeah, that they're also part of this third culture kid, yeah, and uh have the same I can't say imposter syndrome, but they go through the same thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What are you most intentional about passing on to your kids, regardless of geography? Um, you know what? I really want to pass uh on uh good manners, also like uh respect whenever uh we are because like you know being Indonesian, those are like um something that you really uh raise from the young age, and then also that's very important. I mean like you know, good manners and also like uh like respect, it's always been useful whenever you are in the world, you know. You cannot be like uh you know, bad. I mean like bad manner when you are facing. Yeah, so but I think like in the same time, uh for me it's important why, because when we see um, for example, in Europe country or something like in West country maybe, uh that can be different. But me as an Asian, it's very important. You know, you cannot like uh there's some gesture you cannot do, and then you understand, right? Like we are Asians, so you must be understand like how you respect like uh elderly or people older than you, also you have to respect like teacher or like being a good manner, you know. Okay, be being a good human being is something that is something the constant value that you have to have in a kid, right? I mean, as a family, whatever you go, no matter where you go. I mean, like of course, like uh there's different um uh you know, not standard, maybe the uh I don't know if high issues standard like between your uh Western standard and Asian standard about standards. Standard, yeah. But I mean like I want my kids they know at least the standard of like Indonesian standard about manner and also about respect. Because I can see it's very different. Like, for example, simple thing. In Indonesia, you cannot hand it someone with your left hand. It's considered ethic, athletic, you know, uh like in the Western uh country, actually it's that it doesn't matter, you know. But yeah, I just want them to keep um these are small things, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it's small thing, but I want them to, you know, keep that kind of uh respect and manner, yeah. Like uh all Indonesians do. Yeah, yeah. Also in India, when you hire to drink water, you drink from the right hand. Yeah, yeah. Not from the left. You know, there's no hard and fast rule of uh drinking water with the right hand. But I know it is possible that sometimes you can just use left hand. So yeah, it's alright. But with this question, I'm thinking of one word which is cultural intelligence. Heard of that? You know where it is, cultural intelligence. I never heard that before. So cultural intelligence is uh I think our kids will be far more culturally intelligent than us. If you are with some other Asian, they have a different culture. Yeah. Example, Korean. So when you are in a group at the dining table, kids are maybe having a party, your kids will have a different way of communicating, talking, interacting. And the the ones coming from Korea, they have a way different way of talking. So the way you have your um values that you want your kids to be instilled in them, the Koreans have a different Yeah, yeah, I understand. Yeah, yeah. So So you mean like they will adapt? Depends on where they are. I think they will adapt. They have exposure, far more intense exposure than us. Yeah, yeah. And I think they're going through it, they have no idea what it is, but once they really are grown up and maybe out there in the world to find a job or make a career of themselves, of uh for themselves, then they will really have this as a benefit. It's more like a tool. And uh it becomes their strength, not weakness. Yeah. To really know, okay, I know exactly how the Koreans behave and exactly how the Indians do or don't do, how the French do it, because of course, yeah. So this is this is a tool, right? This is exactly. And I think it's as a parent very important to keep on stressing on those facts that hey, be aware that no, this person doesn't like this, or they don't eat this, or they don't drink that way, sit that way, because in India you can be very easily seated crossed feet.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Europeans will ever do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And every country will have their own method. Method. They will have their own reasons of doing something. Yeah, sitting on the floor, there's a reason. So having it with fork and nine, you know, with this cultural intelligence, one thing comes to my mind. As a mother, it must be sometimes a moment of guilt. Questioning yourself with all this moment, is it giving strength or instability to your kids? What do you think? So to be honest, I think it's again both of it. You know, it's just like um to be honest, sometimes I feel guilty as a mom, you know. And then but uh in other ways, I really hope that this thing makes them feel stronger, you know? And then the guilt actually comes from knowing that in this young age they already learned that everything is only temporary. Yeah, you know, yeah, like uh you have your best friend, you make your best friend, but at the end it's just temporary because maybe next year I'm the one who will be gone, or she's the one who will be gone, you know? Yeah, and then also like um a part of friend, like uh simple thing for the kids. This your favorite snack, oh you're no longer can have it in here. Oh yeah, you know, yeah. For us, maybe like okay, we are adult, but for kids, like I didn't know my kids sometimes like mommy, I miss this spreadzel. This spreadzel here we find here is different. Yeah, you know, but this is my friend and my favorite one, so yeah, and then also um but I hope like growing up this way it can make them like a more resilient, yeah, like uh like giving them something valuable, something like um easy to adapt, because adapting is about their life now, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of my guests mentioned about this one and he said to this question, I had I asked a similar question about what do you think uh this this expacked life does teach them resilience? And he said, No, I disagree. I think it spoils them. And uh because life in their in the home country is completely different. It is not like living in X-Pac bubble, you know, you have to do your things here, uh not here. In some countries, you have this privilege of having home care, no home care, the staff, housekeeping staff. So the kids leave the school, the bed is messy, but the housekeeping staff will make sure it is tidy and done. The same is not true if when they are in France or in Europe in the home country. Because there you have to do it yourself.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

And then that in that from that angle, expat life is not teaching the resilients, it is not good. It spoils. Yeah. Well, I feel like it depends on country to country. Yeah. I don't think so. In the US it was like that, was it? Well, in country like uh well, of course, in US, uh we don't have any, you know, this kind of luxury. Yeah, luxury privilege. Privilege, yeah. To have like someone who can help you at home, like uh everything dance. But yeah, it depends. Even here, to be honest, like I still um do this um how to say it like a rigged action. So every time uh my kids they need to clean up their room themselves. Like uh sometimes they say, yeah, but Didi was I said, no, no, Didi. This is your room, this is your responsibility. I mean, like, you know, they it just have uh it just to give them the idea that you know you even like we have the privilege of having someone who helps us, but you know, maybe in the future, we never know. You have to take care of yourself. I always tell them like that, you know. From from from now kids and raising kids, you're moving on to the next topic, but just for me, my favorite. I'm sure you will also give you why. Let's get into that. Career and reinvention. You've you've moved across industries, right? You've worked in logistics, IT, cosmetics, and education. Was that exploration or adaptation? Um it is uh yeah. I mean like I will say like uh it's more adaptation, you know. Okay. And then I was lucky normally. Uh I mean like uh I think like I was lucky because why? Back then I started uh to work like professionally when I was 19. I was still in the university back then. And then this uh like um you know um the boss, he was the owner of the logistic uh that was my first uh job uh working in the logistic industrial industry. And then like uh he gave me a change. It I was like young in us and 19, you know, 19. Well, it I I was legal to work, of course, but uh I have like zero knowledge about uh logistic. It was not my industry. So he gave me change to learn and everything. So, and then after that, like uh after some years, I feel like okay, maybe this is time for me to you know dig something else to to know something else. So I tried to move from another industry to another. So I did like uh logistics, um IT, like uh cosmetic, and then also when I was in French, I tried something new, which is like uh about education in the smaller, like a younger age. So teaching. Well, technically I couldn't teach because uh back then um I was like uh I was not uh French. So normally they require like a French uh citizen. But I was like the assistant of teacher back then. But you know, from all of these things, from the adaptation I tried, I found that something like, oh, finally I found something that really into me, you know? Yeah. From these old like uh things, uh experience. So that is the exploration. Yeah. Exploration also was your adaptation. Yeah. When you're exploring something, you have to adapt to something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the the the way. So yeah. I was happy with this. Now what were you when? Sorry. Yep. Please. You were into cosmetics, you said. Yeah. What were you doing? What was your I was a commercial assistant to to L'Arena, like L'Oreal Paris. L'Oreal Innovation, sorry. L'Oreal City. That is a special one. Yeah. Who? I don't know. Which girl wouldn't like to work in a position like that? Company like that. But then you couldn't continue that in some other country? No, I cannot, unfortunately. Why? Yeah. That's expat life. But I mean, like uh, it's okay. I I found something new, yeah, because of that. Can you imagine if I can continue in this uh like you know, going somewhere else with L'Oreal? Maybe like when I moved to France, I can continue. So I cannot find the this thing, uh, this new thing that actually I really like about like uh this uh education. Yeah. Actually, uh for the from the old job I have, the thing that I love most is about like um the in this uh educational shape, yeah. Because it was with the younger age, you know. That's the first thing I remember that I come back home from work and then my head was clear. I didn't think something about job. Yeah. Because normally before, every time I go back home, I okay, tomorrow I need to do this, this, this, this, this, this, you know, you have to think about your job. Even physically you are no longer in your office. Yes. But with this kind of job, I was happy. I feel light. I felt light, you know. So if ever finally I can go back to work, now I know where I belong. Yep. Yep. Education. Yeah, interesting. Yep. But then right now, when there is a career pause, yeah. How did that affect your sense of self? Um honestly, from my personal experience, it didn't make me lose the sense of my identity, to be honest. It didn't. No, it didn't. Like in a way, it actually helped me okay, um discover a new version of myself. Okay, yeah, yeah. So um I just realized that my life has simply moved into a different place, you know. Just like uh, you know, uh, I'm a wife, I'm a mother now, and then at the moment I'm not working professionally, but there was a conscious choice that I made when I decided to build a life with my husband, of course. Because everything has been, you know, decided from the beginning. Yeah. And then also like um I think like uh every stage of life comes with different roles to play, you know? Yeah, yeah. And then uh I like uh I mean like um of course I'm used like having a professional life, you know, when you can you have a plan, you have, you know, idea to express, of course, I I I miss it. I'm like a human being, you know. Yeah, yeah. But also I find like I found other ways to channel my um to channel that energy, of course. Like um, you know, every time I move, whenever I cannot work, I always volunteer. That's the the thing I I do. Like um before I always volunteer in like a spouse association, um both in France and here in Houston.

unknown 48:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

And then also I always take part of, you know, either in like a school or like in the you know, social where you live, your community. Yes, yeah, something like that. So I still have um uh how to say platform to you know express myself, my feelings, my idea. That gives you different identity, something that you didn't try in a paid job, a salaried job. Of course. You have I can't say 100% of the film, but you have to pivot. Yeah, you have to pivot. And your goals are different, your roles, as you said, is different in a volunteer job. Yeah, um, but volunteer job in a school is different, volunteer job in a community in your society is different. And what else did you sing? Volunteer job as uh uh like uh in a spouse. The spouse talk about that. What is the spouse association? So this is uh from like um my husband company because the company is like uh they are around anywhere around the world, right? Yeah, so the idea is like together uh all spouses because sometimes you know you when you are like uh new in the new country, you don't have friends, you don't have someone to ask, you're like feeling alone. And then the idea of this uh community is like uh so all of these women won't feel alone. You will have a source source when you can ask everything, either like a simple thing like hey, uh which uh school is uh good, and your reference about what brand to buy for this, you know, from like simple questions to like. Yeah, yeah. So also like uh we did a lot of things like um to keep them occupied. Like um, there's a lot of clubs, like uh, you know, cooking clubs, like uh some spouses can cannot speak like uh the language. So there will be like uh I don't know, English club, like Spanish club, French club, you know. There are a lot of like when I was in Houston, it were the member was uh almost 700. Because like Houston was the big 100, it is that yeah, 100 clubs? No, not 100 clubs, I mean like almost like 700 people. 700 people, yeah, who are open to such associations? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The association was like um massive one, yeah. But I mean like sometimes uh in the event, uh not everybody comes, but at least you know whoever like um wants to join us, you can join. But in the total, we have almost uh 600 something, but uh close to 700, yes, just in Houston, just in Houston itself, yeah. So can you imagine like uh even you're not like professional working, but to you know handle this uh huge of ladies, yeah, and I think it it may be then looking like when you have a career fault, um you feel like okay, what is who am I in that identity crisis at the same time? That space, that kind of uh hollowness is taken by this space of volunteer job. Maybe, maybe way too much, I don't know. Uh that space of volunteer, okay. Now I have to volunteer for a larger number of people, which is not your paid job, which was nothing like what you did before. That takes the space voluntary. And were you happy with that? Yes, of course. I mean, like, okay, like um now I'm not earning something, of course, for now. But the thing is, my heart is full. My heart is filled up. I mean like you know, because for me it's like uh it's filled up with different kinds of purpose. So my purpose now is not maybe like um my purpose now is being present for my community, for my children, for my family, you know. And then um, so even I'm not professional working at the moment, I still feel like I can contribute, you know, just and stay engaged in other ways. Yeah. No, like we've seen in schools as well the way events come up with and the way parents are involved, at the end, what you get is honestly no money. Yeah, there's no recognition, there's no certificate that okay, you've done this or well done. Yeah. I don't need, I mean, like to be honest, I don't need that kind of you know recognition. Recognition, but at least my heart is full. Yeah, yeah. That's the most important thing for me. Yeah, yeah. In this constant shifting, okay? From from uh having no job, but then at the same time having this volunteer taking over, volunteer services taking over. Um and then you have to move. Okay. So when you have to shift, what remains as a non-negotiable for you? So I think it's one thing that remains um non-negotiable. For me, it's uh family and the values we carry with us. So um country may change, like but I want my children to always feel grounded, you know. Yeah. Uh they have to be become who they are, they have to know where they come from, their roots, and then you know, as long as we keep we stay connected as a connected as a family, um, and hold on those values, I think like um everything else can adapt. And then you can move swiftly wherever you can. Yeah, whenever. Yeah. We are like, you know, people who have to adapt now. So yeah. Once they know that okay, this is their identity where you have to be consciously aware of adapting, I think it becomes easy if you leave like in three years or four years or five. As long as you know your route, everything will be okay. You can always adapt. I love the word roots. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That just comes all right. So with all the discussions, okay. I'm coming to the end of the session and I'm gonna leave with one question which I think will make you think a little deeper. If your life were a map, what do you think it's been trying to teach you? I know it is coetic it has to, isn't it? It's the end, so I cannot just el edit a question and a serious one. Um if my life were a map I think um it's been teaching me that home isn't always a fixed place. Yes, yeah. Sometimes it's something you build along the way, you know. So um with people you love, of course. Moving moving so much uh taught me to stay open, adaptable, and then also um to focus on what truly matters. Yeah, like family, values, and connection. That's beautiful. I think I won't have really added much to that because what you said is perfect, uh, my response of what I've been saying. It is something that you know you you cannot have home at one place, home is wherever your family is together, yeah, of course. But thank you so much, Rika, for your time. It has been such a pleasure to talk about your journey, and I think uh this session was good for you as well because of course it's also a conscious effort to make sure the guest comes in this conversation as reflective as they can. Yeah, and I think uh you were really, really good. Thank you so much. Oh thank you. How did you find the session today? Well, the session was just like um very good, to be honest. I thank you for the opportunity to invite me to be here now. It is like, you know, um there are a lot of things here unspoken. But today you gave me like um place so where I can like you know, open about what happened here, what I feel here. So now today I can like speak it up. Yep, yeah. And then I thank you for that opportunity. Malikam, welcome. Today it was really a lot about unspoken words, unspoken experiences, and you voiced it in a way that there's so many women today watching will be able to relate to that, will also maybe inspire you, but they'll be inspired to hold things in a certain way, you know. Yeah, I hope. So thank you so much. Thank you.