Inside the Human Side of Expat Assignments in India, with Marie Truchassou | Part 1

Marie Truchassou is a global mobility HR consultant who lived and worked as an expat in India — before becoming the person advising organisations on how to do it right.

French, countryside-raised, she packed up her life and moved to India alone –  navigating a new country, a new culture, and a new career, all at once, with no blueprint.

In Part 1 of this global mobility podcast conversation, we talk about what happens when the person responsible for supporting expats has never been one themselves, and what it costs, professionally and personally.

Topics covered in this episode:
— What HR professionals get wrong about expat support and why lived experience is the gap no certification fills
— What it's really like relocating solo to India as a single French woman in her late twenties
— Safety, unsolicited opinions, and the ring she wore just to get through the day
— Why expat partners pay the highest hidden price — and what career continuity actually requires
— What to negotiate in your expat contract before you sign — repatriation, retirement, healthcare, and unemployment rights
— Localised HR strategy vs. the one-size-fits-all trap
— The contract clauses that protect expats when assignments end unexpectedly

This one is for anyone who has ever held it together in a country that didn't quite make sense yet or stood beside someone who did.

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💬 Tag someone navigating expat life, or an HR professional who has never left home.

Rooted and Routed is a global mobility and cross-cultural storytelling podcast hosted by Sabiya Pathan Withoeck. New episodes every week.

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Transcript

Introduction — meet Marie Truchassou

Sabiya 0:00

Hi, my name is Sabiya, and today I'm back with somebody that I've known since a year. Today's guest is somebody who knows the thrill and turbulence of global life. Not from the textbook, but somebody who's lived the experience of global mobility. My guest today is Marie Truchassou. Hi Marie. Hi. I'm really glad that we're doing this because we've spoken about this 2023.

Marie T 0:30

Yes, when we met in Kalyani Nagar, you're there, we had our connection, and we had a nice breakfast. Oh yes. And then we started to speak about this project. Yeah.

Sabiya 0:40

So you have known about the podcast even before and named uh the podcast, right? And um I'm really glad that we are doing this all the way from France. And I know your background is human resource, that's the topic for today. But maybe you can let the audience know more about your background a little bit.

Marie T 1:00

So I'm a French uh girl, as you can see from my accent, but um I'm not coming from Paris, I'm coming countryside, very small,

From a French village to five years in India

Marie T 1:10

u where you get more cows than people. And um I was always interested in international h topics, and I got the chance to get um a diploma in global mobility. So I worked for uh as an HR in global mobility for many years in France, before getting the chance to get an expat assignment to India. I was supposed to go to India for one year only. At the end, I stayed for five years, and uh I even spent um the COVID lockdown uh in Mumbai. So I think I've been uh living an amazing experience of expatriation and a unique one. I had to relocate to France by 2020 and then I was supposed to come back, but my mom got a very bad diction I decided to stay with my relatives for some time. And at the end, I found the love of my life in France, so I'm still living in France at the moment. But I still I am in touch on a daily basis still with India because uh I've launched myself as a nature freelancer in global mobility, and almost 40% of my activity as of today has a link and a connection with so I'm very lucky because almost every year I come back to India for my business, but as well to meet people, to reconnect with the friends, the family uh I get here, because for now for me, some people became family. Yeah, and uh it's it's very nice for me because India has been shaping me a lot, and I can still grow with India having this uh yearly, you know, uh India, let's say, expat uh experience for a very short period of time, but still for me uh this connection is very important.

Sabiya 2:51

And I'm sure like when you have lived here for five years, it has really shaped your views on how India is or the expat life is, but how was it for you to to experience that and also to see the HR, human resource in India?

Marie T 3:07

Is it any different or the same? So for me, I was always having a frustration in the sense that the people doing my job in global mobility expats, most of them have never been an expat themselves. And I think you know, missing the experience is uh something that creates a gap in the sense that we are should be expats because we manage different topics: employment law, uh tax, social security, compensation and benefits, and it's very tricky topics. But at the same point, understanding the experience that you are going through as an expat, both on a professional and personal standpoint, is very important because it is what helps you to shape the best policies, the best approaches, the best support for your expats, to be happy in their experience and with their family as well. It's very important. But uh to be as well, to be very efficient in what they do, because expatriation,

HR professionals who've never been expats

Marie T 4:05

it's a new job usually, but with a challenge, additional challenge to relocate to another country and to settle and make yourself. So it's one of the biggest challenges for me. But when I arrived here, uh unfortunately, you know, HR, we are not good at managing ourselves in the sense that my arrival was not communicated properly to the team uh here in HR. So they have never left themselves the fact to locate from one country to another, and they don't realize our India can be tricky because it's their normal life. And they don't see what is different and when the foreigners are coming from. So for them, you know, a regular problem can be a very big one for expats, but they don't necessarily get the understanding. They are not proactive about this. And uh for me, it's always getting back to the same topic. If you want to take care of foreigners, you need yourself to travel a bit to discover uh the world outside of your own country so that you can be better in what you do.

Sabiya 5:06

And is that something that you learned when you were as an expat that okay, this is what expats truly need from HR?

Marie T 5:15

I was uh I was always an extensive traveler and a very keen person in the sense for me I don't like to do only touristic things. You know, I like to mix with local people when I travel as much as I can so that I can really uh try to integrate and immerse myself into the country. So I had a first understanding, but the real one came when I had myself to relocate by my home. Uh find my house, and at the same time, my managers were expecting to be uh performing some duties from the first months. Uh I was a single lady relocating to India, so I had to manage the housing research, utility setup, uh FRRO registration, everything by myself without the support of a partner for all the logistics. But as well, you know, when I was uh integrating through this uh very hard phase of the beginning to arrive just in a country, I was missing the fact at the evening to be able to speak to someone with what I was going through. Um so it was very, very difficult at that time. And uh I realized how nice it is to get a partner because it uh you can still discuss about what you see, what you discover, and get someone sharing with you some insight and feedback that to help you go and to understand better. But at the same time, as a woman, it was a real challenge for me to get to it, obviously. Um and uh I think now I it can feel

Relocating solo as a single woman

Marie T 6:50

a bit presumptuous, but I know that I can do and I can live whenever I I want to. Because I already did in India just by myself. And um yes, but nothing is impossible anymore.

Sabiya 7:02

I think as a woman it must be very hard, as you said, like I think you're saying it in a way how do I say that? Um it it sounds to be just this much, but I can imagine um as an as an Indian local woman as well to step out or go for work and come back home safely, safety part, right, is is a concern. Uh we do think of okay, when can I come back? You know, there's always a return time that we always have to calculate in our whole uh daily schedule for you to actually move from a different continent.

Marie T 7:39

Uh that must be the assessment for safety at the beginning was very difficult. Uh because you don't really understand your environment. You need to discover what is okay, what is not okay. Uh at the same time, I don't I didn't want to be too scared of the world outside uh of my uh society. So very quickly I went out and wanted to go to the market. The first time was very tricky. So many people wanted to get pictures with me that the security guards had to step in to stop the crowd from taking pictures from me because it was in big thing, and at that time we were only three foreigners living there: one German, one Japanese, and myself. And I think the German and Japanese were never going out. But for me, I just wanted to, you know, I wanted to purchase mangoes and to get my vegetables in the market, and I did not realize really that maybe it was too soon, and people were needing to be prepared for me to live here and to know, and they were just so happy and then the crowd effect was too much, but luckily the security guards, uh, they stepped in and they helped me. But at the same time, you know, being a woman, I know that as well, I was a for obviously I could live my life by my own as I wanted, compared to a woman. And uh for me it's a real chance. I really realized, you know, that I won the lottery of life being born as a French woman. Sometimes you get the idea, but when you live in India, you really, really realize it's the

Safety, judgment & cultural difference

Marie T 9:17

gap that it creates in your life and independence as a woman. But sometimes it was a bit tough. I was 28 years old and I was not having any partner, any boyfriend, any husband, and people were always asking, Are you married? And I was like, No, I'm not married. And once one dri taxi driver told me, You must have something going wrong with you, maybe a mental disease or something bad with your body, still single. It helps.

Sabiya 9:47

Now that's like a judgment not asked for and not appreciated, I'm sure.

Marie T 9:53

Yes, but I understood as well that there is a difference of cultural, there is a difference of mindset. And for me, my purpose is not to say it's wrong to believe that. My purpose is just to show that it can be different, but then it's a choice of people. Yeah. I don't want to push people to get the same mindset. I just want to respect their and try to understand, and at the same time, I'm just hoping they will be the same.

Sabiya 10:20

Wow. That is commendable. I think I'm sure uh that's a big tip for a lot of expert women, especially who don't step out because of that mindset or that kind of a judgment that they may receive from the local uh community.

Marie T 10:32

So yeah, could we I think you need to understand that it's not personal, just coming from cultural and the mindset and innovations that it knows is not coming from us. So it's not us getting wrong. Just it is as it is. Yeah. But easier said than done.

Sabiya 10:50

Exactly. Yeah. In the moment you must have what you must have felt. I'm trying to understand, and how how did you react? I don't know. Was it for you like, okay, calm and compose, I'm not gonna react. This is his mindset, my mindset is different. Was that so easy for you to?

Marie T 11:03

At that moment, you know, a lot of my colleagues and women colleagues were in the process of getting married. There's a special process in India when your parents pick up for you uh your future partner, and I knew that there was a lot of pressure for them to be married before a certain age. And for me, I was uh they were 26, I was 28. So I understood that I was already beyond standards for weddings for regular people in India. So I could understand that for them, yes, maybe something was wrong, and maybe this guy was more French than Indian to be so much straightforward then. But um yeah, and I told him, no, I have no issue, it's just I I don't have found yet uh the perfect guy, and I'm not gonna take the first one from the street. But um yes, at the first uh at the first uh stage it was very difficult. I think it depends if you are in a in a mental state where you can handle it, yes or no. And sometimes I had the boundaries to manage it very nicely. But when I knew you know I was a bit uh tired or not very patient or um I could not be in a very stable mental health to manage this type of queries, my um my solution was to get a ring to pretend I was married. And I was putting it when I was, you know, I could I knew that if I had such a situation, I could not manage it, manage it properly. So this is how I managed basically.

Sabiya 12:40

Well it's funny that how you found one person of French in an Indian Was it a taxi driver or or a taxi driver for uh from uh Pune to buy yes? One person of Frenchness in an Indian taxi driver. Well, from all of these experiences uh as an expat, you launched two complementary companies, ventures, With My Expat Ccompass or individuals and Forwards International HR or companies. Yes. How do these businesses work together to cover the full spectrum of global?

Marie T 13:16

So I'm an HR by heart if we can say. So for me it was making sense to create Forwards International HR. And I'm uh that's why I'm always so exposed to India because I'm helping some international companies to settle in India, and I am the HR helping them really to address and to understand the Indian HR specifics. For example, the compensation structure in India is very special compared to what you get in the US or in Europe, the benefits in kinds are not the same. Sometimes I advise in terms of merger or acquisition of Indian companies. Uh so I really provide support about this and I help as well about expats. But uh I had always in my mind the idea to help expats themselves, because I always found

Launching two businesses from lived experience

Marie T 14:06

they are very alone in their career assessment, in their HR negotiation. Uh they're just by their side, alone, having no one to be able to help them by them, whether is it okay, what can get more in such such instance as well when things are not doing okay, and you get no termination process, sometimes it can be very, very tricky, but the stakes are high as well. But because you know the compensation structure for expats, the taxation implications, everything is very tricky. You cannot get necessarily a regular HR to help you and to advise you. And um, it's true I had done a lot of offline and free advisory for some expats from my network network for this, so I realized that there was a real need for this. So I decided to create uh with my expat compass, it was in January 2024. Ah, yeah. And uh, for example, in the last case, I managed uh to help a French guy going to uh uh to Kenya and he got almost 20% of salary hikes because we work together and with uh expat offer, and 20% is huge, right? And it makes your life totally different. So this is what I wanted to do is to be able, for once, to be the HR by the side, by the side of the expats themselves, to help them to get better conditions and to show that what they get is okay, because it's not just an opportunity, a job opportunity is a relocation for you and your family, a new life starting over into another country. You need to be really in success mode to show that everything is okay before you go. Um and uh now what is very nice is that uh because I'm still doing some activities with HR, I'm still really uh updated about what the HR do. So I can really advise experts the best way. And it is the reverse as well, because I'm advising expert, HR and my clients, they love the fact that I'm very much tied with what are the expectations from the experts and what they really need. So I'm really, you know, updated and fitted with the needs from HR and expats, and I mix two of them together to make the best advisory, whether I advise HR or experts.

Sabiya 16:28

That's wonderful. And I think that people sometimes forget that as an assignee, it's not just the assignee which is moving, you're actually helping the whole pack. You have a kid and the schooling. I mean, do you also include that factor?

Marie T 16:41

I include everything. And um I help as well to define the best budget to help the expat partners because very often they sacrifice their career, and uh it's creating a huge financial loss for them, the family as well. And uh sometimes a break period from the expat is something very difficult over for the partner, that is our men. And uh that's why as well I've been uh I am helping the expat partner themselves in their career. For example, when they go uh when they go from France to Uzbekistan, I can help the expat partner to find, okay, now I'm in Uzbekistan. What can I do with my profile uh locally, or can I launch myself as an entrepreneur? So I'm really helping them to assess what is the best for them to do and to try to optimize this uh expat break, not just to be an expat break, but maybe to become a leverage or a new opportunity for them to continue their career, whether as an employee or

The expat partner's career

Marie T 17:44

as another.

Sabiya 17:44

So that is more like helping into um helping to create an opportunity as a dual career for the couple.

Marie T 17:52

Yes. For me, especially if the partner can get a nice work opportunity, obviously it brings more finance. And obviously, when the day comes that the expat is ending, when you come back to your own country or you go to another country, you can still continue working, and the pilot spent as an expat is not a loss to the partner. And as well, we need to realize as well, sometimes life can happen, you can divorce, you can separate. And uh I think partners need to realize it that expatriation is a huge challenge for married couples. And uh because we as individuals we live the expatriation differently, sometimes it can be a real uh couple challenge. Uh so yes, separation or divorce can happen. So that's why for me it's important that you have a bit of um uh work independence if we can say and as an expert, I always say we don't need to work uh permanently and still find a part-time opportunity, a part-time entrepreneurship activity. You are a concrete example of this, Sadia, basically, and uh you have a purpose, you have an impact, and this is what people need to. Yeah, yeah.

Sabiya 19:09

Have you come across a couple where the expact spouse was not leaning towards entrepreneurship at the beginning and that you had to really put in efforts to show her the direction?

Marie T 19:22

Entrepreneurship is always scary, yeah. Especially for a woman because uh I think there is always the assumption that men can be better in entrepreneurship. That's how I think it's like kind of uh you know a mental boundary that we put to ourselves as well. I can see it on myself as I am an entrepreneur in France. We have we are only 5% of women entrepreneurs, so I think there is still something big to work on for us as women. Uh what we need to realize is that entrepreneurship allows us to control our working time, to control what we do. If we want to work 20% uh in November and then 100% in December, we can and we are our own employer. So this is a good point. But yes, sometimes they need to take time, and uh and I think we need we should not forget that the fact that we move to another country, it creates an identity shift. And we need to process it sometimes before making a step from a career uh, let's say orientation or assessment. So, for example, in my programs, sometimes I let people decide what they want to do, what they want to focus more, because sometimes they need more energy to settle, and then when it's done, we can work on the career path. Or some people they like to manage everything together because they like the flow and the energy that moving on one topic can bring to uh the other topic.

Sabiya 20:46

That is interesting, and I think that refuels your passion.

Marie T 20:50

Yeah.

Sabiya 20:50

Your own entrepreneurial passion by yeah, helping somebody else on in their uh path.

Marie T 20:55

And uh it's highly individual, individualized that I do. And uh, for example, uh for European expats, it's very important, you know, summer break. Yeah. We come back to Europe, we enjoy family, we get some uh nice time. So, for example, my programs, depending on the needs, uh it can stop during the summer break so that people can refresh, get a nice uh break uh in Europe. But sometimes as well, uh you can be very much proactive. For example, I'm happying uh a French lady, she has been living in for 15 years in the US, she plans to come back to France in two years, and she's already in uh preparation return mode, and we are already working together to prepare our return to France to find a job the next two years. She wants to optimize her return, she wants to optimize her career in the US. So uh we are working on this together and uh she will she should be able to get a very nice opportunity then when she comes back.

Sabiya 21:54

Interesting one, and I have I've seen that you've also certified in France um the Certification called GPHR, which is the Global Professional Human Resource and the Senior Senior Professional Human Resource, right? International. So you've certified in both of these. What exactly these certifications do? And how are they different? I don't know.

Marie T 22:18

These are American certification and resources for international. And for me it was very important to get them because I didn't want to get too much the French HR approach. So getting these two certifications helped me to get the American business-sided HR approach. So it's feeding me uh a lot about this. So that's why today I'm working for some American uh clients. But basically, these certifications were very difficult to get because when English is not your mother tongue, it's very, very difficult from uh you know learning and um and sometimes you can feel as well that you use the same word, but you don't have exactly the same definition for the same word. So it's a the tricky part of a language

Getting globally certified in a second language

Marie T 23:08

coming up. And for this certification, uh I had to get 80% of right answers, so it's a very high one. But I knew that because of the language barrier, I had 5% less because uh I could not necessarily understand fully the tricky points as a comprehension point. So basically I had only 15% of margin of. So I got them. But it was as well a nice opportunity for me because um when I accompany some expat or the partners, sometimes I advise them about certifications, and I can advise them about this process of learning a certification for another language and uh what they can expect, how they can get prepared to optimize this, because uh usually it's a cost. And uh obviously you want to be in a in a position of uh of success. But when it's not in your mother tongue, it's always quickest.

Sabiya 24:05

And I think it's it's nice to have done it yourself and then you can give the advice because you know exactly what that uh that that journey was, right?

Marie T 24:13

Exactly. And um I think so some things we cannot learn in the book. You need to live yourself to be really able to help people about this.

Sabiya 24:22

Well, I need like the the senior professional uh human resource. That was a difficult one because I saw the uh what is required, right? Requirement for to pursue that course. And it said like you have to have uh minimum seven years of experience in human resource, but what that SPHRI does is massive for you in the international.

Marie T 24:43

I am the only one in France to get the two certifications, basically.

Sabiya 24:47

Right.

Marie T 24:48

No one else gets uh and because it's a significant investment as well in terms of time, uh for each of them it was almost six months of preparation. And I was working in three or four hours per day to prepare it and get ready. And for the renewal, because it's three years certificate, you need to renew it. For the renewals, basically the renewals it's not so easy neither. So it's always an investment, but I like to do it because at some point as well, I think it's important to keep yourself updated in your industry and in what you do. And uh this is how I bring value as well to uh HR and to experts.

Sabiya 25:29

So when you're talking about the update, it is the whole the curriculum or the studies or that. Oh my god. But when you have done it, once it's okay. You just need to keep yourself updated and you know you're more ready, so it's a bit easier.

Marie T 25:46

I think you're also in the in that pace, right, of learning. Uh once you've done the certification, so the next time it becomes easier to grasp because Yes, you just learn the updates basically, and then uh it's okay. So it's still manageable.

Sabiya 25:59

Well, from that um I see that you support the SMEs. Forward is international, HR offers services like HR, human environmental analysis, strategic partnership identification. Why localized tailor support so critical?

Marie T 26:16

I think sometimes some um some organizations they want too much to remain global while uh life is not like this. And uh and I think especially for products, you need to be a bit local and to understand what local people so that you can uh sell your product and basically grow into and most of the organizations they forget it. It's true sometimes it can it can work, remain too truly global. For example, Coca-Cola, Coca-Cola is it just remained global and it's working everywhere. But sometimes, I think uh, for example, if we take the example of Ferrero, you know, Ferrero, the product they sell in Europe, is totally different what they say sell in India because of the temperature, how you can keep the product, how you can eat it. So they had to develop a different product

When global companies ignore local context

Marie T 27:10

with more or less the same taste. But it's just in Europe you open the paper and then you eat it. Yeah. While in India, you open the paper and then you get a spoon to eat it and to avoid it to melt it too much because the temperature and the heat and everything. So they were able to adjust, and I think it's the best way to address this. But very often the headquarters decide, okay, I'm gonna open a subsidiary in India, someone is coming for two weeks there, oh it's it's gonna be complicated, but we are gonna do it, and then they expect to manage everything from the headquarters only. For me, it's a total mistake.

Sabiya 27:46

Also, the logistics changes, right? When you can if you don't want to deal with the temperatures and um customize or localize the whole process.

Marie T 27:54

Yes, and the tastes are different. For sure, also, yes. For example, for the colors, for the sound, for a lot of stuff, we have a different taste. Yeah. And um at the same time, for me, I I I like to believe I would love to that we be able to keep our local taste and not to become too much global. Because for me, I think at some point when everything will be global, it will be boring.

Sabiya 28:15

I didn't think of that, but Ferero Rocher was really a great example because you're talking about logistics, you really covered a lot of things with that, right? Um localized because of the temperature, the texture needs to be maintained, uh, the packaging.

Marie T 28:29

Yes, the brand, the marketing, it's not the same. But uh and how can we adapt the product? But no, they wanted to create. And that's the biggest issue for me for organizations to make uh business abroad, but they do exactly the same Sabiya for HR management. What works in my home country, we will apply the same for this country while no, we need to consider local uh specifications, local constraints to adjust and to make it with the situation. And do you have uh you've been helping such uh SMEs already? Yes. So mostly uh in India, Indonesia, uh Middle East, and the US. These are my key uh markets.

Sabiya 29:15

Did you live anywhere else uh besides India? No. Okay, but you really have a fair idea of the area.

Marie T 29:22

I'm traveling there on a regular basis. In July I was in Indonesia and for me, I don't want to be a nature just uh in an office and doing international stuff from my office and through Excel sheets. I want really to be a nature on the ground. Yeah, it makes sense. It's important.

Speaker 29:39

That's important indeed. Do you also get a chance to attract or know some expats in that country?

Marie T 29:44

Yes, very often, and sometimes I participate to the selection process of expats for some countries, especially when it's sticky countries, because I'm trying to determine the feat and if uh the experts are ready. Because sometimes we let them go, and then they are not totally ready or the feat is not there for them to stay in the country, and then you have to reintegrate them back to the own country. But basically it's a financial loss for the organization, it costs a lot. And usually the bad point for the expats themselves is that they feel that they failed and there was some performance issue, but sometimes it just that was not the perfect fit. And it's not unnecessarily from themselves, sometimes it's a lack of preparation from the organization. You get some so many leverages and um impacts that created the situation. So I'm always trying to accompany them to apply that. It's not necessarily uh a fail from their end.

Sabiya 30:40

So for the audience who doesn't know much about global mobility and trying to understand what we're talking, it is not just about expats, right? And in global mobility, uh we aim uh we have the terms inbound and outbound assignees. Maybe for the audience, if you can explain what inbound and outbound assignees are.

Marie T 31:00

So basically it depends from uh where you start. Okay. Uh inbound, it's people coming into a country. So, for example, at the moment, say I am in India, so I'm an inbound in India. While outbound, it's people going out from a country, going to another country. So when I would be traveling back to France, I will be an outbound France, basically. And um in the global mobility world, you get the expats, and normally expats you get the generic word of expat meaning a foreigner into a country working. Uh but for us as HR expats, it's mostly someone going into another country for a certain period of time. It's always temporary. But we can send people on a permanent basis into another country, and then we offer them a local contract plus sometimes some additional benefits. And then it's more like what we call a permanent

Visa uncertainty & what to put in writing

Marie T 31:57

transfer. So more and more HR and organization, because of financial uh, let's say, interest, they try to push more for permanent transfers because it is less costly than expats. Um but on my side, when I advise expatriates themselves, I'm always uh helping them to identify what they need to negotiate for permanent transfers on coming on top of the local contract. Because what organizations very often forget is that you need to get retirement because one day you will be retired. What this opportunity is bringing you in terms of retirement, are you losing any retirement right? What will happen for you when you will reach the age to withdraw your retirement? Medical healthcare, obviously, especially in some countries, it can be a big uh uh big uh negotiation thing. Unemployment, because yes, when everything works well, it's nice to earn your money, you are in to a new country. But what if tomorrow they end the contract? Who is covering the cost for you to relocate back to your country? And who is gonna pay for unemployment allowance for you? Are you getting rights into the country where you are an expat? Would you be getting rights into your own country? Would you be getting nothing? It's something very important to participate. And you get some other topics like uh life and disability and uh uh very other key points that usually Yeah, it's sure the try to avoid to discuss about this ideally and uh because it's very costly. And when you are under local contract, they just say get the local provisions. Yes, it's easy to say when everything is doing okay, but when you get a visa and if your employment is terminated, you will need to get out from the country, and in your home country you will get no rights, no entitlements because you have not been there for many years. So this is something they need to anticipate. And uh usually uh HR try to avoid the topic as much as it.

Sabiya 34:03

This is an interesting topic because I wasn't aware of all these things, the anticipation of things uh which is not something that you think the first thing in your mind. You don't think of okay, uh your visa is terminated and you have to go back and what are the rights in your home country. You don't think of that, right? So you don't think of considering to discuss with your HR. But yeah, it's an interesting topic.

Marie T 34:26

At the moment, for the US it's a very key topic because of Mr. Donald Trump and what he's doing from an immigration standpoint. Um it's difficult to get visa to go to the US, but it's gonna be difficult as well for people having a visa there. The guarantee to get the visa renewal is not anymore. Green card application will get more and more complicated to get. We already start to see some visa rejection, visa renewal uh denials. And what does this mean? You get the visa there, if it's rejected, your employment is terminated, you cannot remain into the country territory, you need to come back to your home country. And who is gonna cover the cost of you removing back for your flights, for your removal, for ending your lease agreement, and then to cover the cost for you settling back to your home country? But as well, what about the loss of uh salary? You have a lot of topics, and I think people for years, when I say people, it's more HR. HR for years were considering, okay, visa renewal will be guaranteed, it's gonna be okay. But now organizations start to work on this topic and they will start to realize that yes, it's not guaranteed anymore. So what do we do? But some of them decide to be supportive and some of that decide not to be supportive. That's why for me the best when I help expats to negotiate their offer is to set up everything into the contract. Because you cannot just trust the employer that when the day comes and something is difficult uh uh arrives, you can just cannot just trust that they will be helping you. It's better to get everything written and signed to your control. These things are not like a standard thing in the uh that's why you need to negotiate, and that's why for me I help to negotiate this, but as well I help to get the best way to speak to HR so that to get the best chance to be able to include this into the contract. Because usually they don't like so much to get this into contract, it's creating a what they call a precedent, and they don't like precedent because when they do this for someone, they are scared that it will be the same for other people coming after since they don't want to do. But uh I know the tricks and how to do to negotiate for this because usually I'm on the other side. So this is uh how I bring values to expatriate negotiation.