Class-Act Coaching: A Podcast for Teachers and Instructional Coaches

Crafting Impactful Lessons: Aligning Assessments and Exploring Cross-Curricular Connections

• SREB • Season 1 • Episode 6

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Unlock the secrets to crafting impactful lesson plans and aligning assessments with the guidance of expert guest Debbie Robertson. Discover how Ashley seeks to refine her organizational skills with insights from senior leadership coach Debbie. Together, they unravel the art of starting with the end in mind, diving into the crucial process of revisiting educational standards. This episode promises to transform your approach to teaching by ensuring lessons are not just effective but deeply aligned with contemporary educational expectations and student needs.

From integrating real-world scenarios into your classroom to making cross-curricular connections, you'll learn innovative strategies that make learning both relatable and robust. We explore how blending subjects like English Language Arts and math can enrich students' understanding and problem-solving abilities. Plus, gain wisdom on effective coaching for educators, with techniques that prioritize understanding coachees' processes before offering guidance. With thoughtful analogies and practical advice, this episode is a treasure trove for teachers and instructional coaches eager to elevate their educational practices.

For more, make sure to download our handout.

The Southern Regional Education Board is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization that works with states and schools to improve education at every level, from early childhood through doctoral education and the workforce.


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Ashley Shaw:

Hi and welcome back. I'm Ashley Shaw. I will be learning something with you today and to get us started on what we're going to learn, here is my regular SREB coach, Daniel Rock.

Daniel Rock:

Hey Ashley, how's it going?

Ashley Shaw:

It's pretty good. It's the end of the week. That's always nice, absolutely.

Daniel Rock:

How's it?

Ashley Shaw:

going for you.

Daniel Rock:

Oh, it's wonderful, Wonderful. So what's on your mind today, ashley? What do you need some help with?

Ashley Shaw:

So I can be a little bit unorganized sometimes. Anybody that knows me will not be surprised to hear that and that sometimes can be a problem as a teacher because it means maybe I don't spend enough time on planning like I should and so I want to be better about planning out my lessons. Do you have anybody that can help me with that?

Daniel Rock:

I'm thinking. One of our senior leadership coaches, debbie Robertson, is a master at design, thinking and helping teachers do all of those great things that we know are important, like beginning with the end in mind and starting with standards and then moving to assessments and having a very deliberate and coherent process. So why don't we have you meet with Debbie Robertson, and I think you'll have a great experience learning with her.

Ashley Shaw:

That sounds great. I'm looking forward to working with her.

Daniel Rock:

After you talk to her, I'll come back and look at some of the ways that she worked with you as an instructional coach and some of the strategies she employed that people out there who are working with other adults might want to try.

Ashley Shaw:

All right, well, that sounds perfect. Let's bring in Debbie, and I'll talk to you later. Hello Debbie, thank you so much for being here today.

Debbie Robertson:

Thanks, Ashley. I'm super excited to be with you.

Ashley Shaw:

We like to start with having the coach do a little bit of an introduction to themselves, just so we know who's coaching us today.

Debbie Robertson:

Okay, yeah, so I taught in a math classroom for 13 years at the middle school level and then I spent the next two years as an instructional coach that was based at the district in Pensacola, florida, and really focused on schools that were in turnaround status, and during those two years I did get the opportunity to teach an algebra class and then a geometry class. So my experience has been middle and high. And then I did that for two years and then I was recruited by SREB nine years ago and I've been with SREB ever since. I currently serve as a senior leadership coach, but spend most of my time in the role of an instructional coach, and I'm excited to be with you today.

Ashley Shaw:

Well, thank you so much for coming. I love hearing from math teachers because, as an English person myself, math is not my best subject, so I respect math teachers a lot.

Debbie Robertson:

Well, you know, the thing about math is, you can get better at it every day, so everyone's a math person.

Ashley Shaw:

That's good to know. I asked Dan to find me a coach that could help me with an issue I've been struggling with, which is something I'm sure a lot of teachers deal with. I teach the material and I'm like, oh, they've got it, they understand it, and then we might get to an assessment. Or in my classes they might write an essay and I'm like, oh, they did not get it. I would like some advice on how to not only teach the material, but teach the material in a way that's going to actually get them to understand the material. Can you help with that?

Debbie Robertson:

Sure, yeah, yeah.

Ashley Shaw:

This is a common problem that teachers experienced and the first thing I'd like to ask is what does your planning process currently look like? I have to admit that a lot of my planning. At this point, I feel like I'm such an expert I've been teaching for so long. My planning is oh where's that lesson from last year that I already did on this topic, which is not the best way to plan. I usually do have an actual lesson plan, but sometimes it's older and I don't always update it like I should.

Debbie Robertson:

Gotcha. Yeah, Ashley. So that's a common problem that teachers experience. They do what's comfortable to them and a lot of times they do that with good intentions, with great intentions. Their mindset is I've got a lot of stuff to cover and I don't have enough time for planning, so I'm just going to go with what I've done before, Even though, according to what you said, we have evidence that's not necessarily being effective for our students.

Ashley Shaw:

I definitely know I'm guilty of. If the lesson seems to go well, I consider it a good lesson, even if the assessment shows it didn't go as well as I thought. So if they seem to be absorbing it in class and they seem to be answering questions and they seem to be getting it, I'm like, yes, I'm going to redo this lesson, even though they got it in class but didn't get it for the assessment. So that's definitely where I need to have that mental connection. I guess that idea of okay, it's not working, like I think it's working, I do need to adjust, sure sure.

Debbie Robertson:

Yes, that speaks to the topic of, or the idea of, coherence and planning, right? So how do we make sure that what our students are experiencing and how we're having them demonstrate understanding in our classroom is really aligned with the standard and the assessments that are based on the standards? And so how do we make that happen? Well, we begin with our planning process by digging into our standards every time. We teach them, year after year. And so when I say digging into the standards, I mean really spending time collaborating around the expectations of the standard, especially the verbs of the standard, and here's what I mean by that. I can teach my students how to perform an experiment that demonstrates a certain phenomenon let's say weathering a certain phenomenon, let's say weathering. However, if the standard specifically states that students are expected to design an experiment that demonstrates weathering that's a completely different skill set and by interpreting it myself and saying, oh, I'm going to show them how I'm going to have them demonstrate weathering through this experiment and never have them reach the level of creation of an experiment, then I have not truly prepared them. My instruction does not align with, and is not coherent with, the assessment level at which they're going to have to demonstrate their understanding. So we do this on a regular basis. Every time we sit down to plan, we always go back to the standards to make sure that we are aligned with the intent of the standard. What exactly is the standard expecting them to? How is it expecting them to demonstrate understanding? And then, after we develop this robust understanding of our standards and that requires time, understanding of our standards and that requires time it does take time and it takes a space in which you can engage in discourse within your community of educators. Those are conversations that are had within your grade level as well as horizontally and vertically, because we need to think about not just only what affects our grade level, but what are those deep understandings that set our students up for future success. So then, after we really get clarity on our standards and we come into agreement on our standards and what they're asking students or how they're asking students to demonstrate mastery of that standard, we get into this idea of backwards design. So we have an idea, we have a clarity on what our standard is asking and then we go and we look at how our standard will be assessed.

Debbie Robertson:

So, if you have access to state assessment release items or even descriptors of test items. We would surely make use of those. But I'll also have my teachers work through any benchmark exams or unit tests whatever is available to them to provide insight in how students will be assessed. I prefer that these assessments be written external from the classroom, and what I mean by that is it's really nice to have benchmarks or module assessments or state items that are written by another group of people who have really dug into the standard.

Debbie Robertson:

Because if I'm in the classroom designing my own assessments, a lot of times I do it in reverse order and I design my instruction and then I create my assessments, whereas your assessments should be created directly from the standards and then your instruction should align to the standards through this idea of how they're going to be assessed. And then I have teachers actually work through the assessments, not just again, not just look at them and say, oh yeah, that's a question on mean-media mode or whatever. So we have to work through them and talk about and have discourse around. What exactly are students expected to do? Where are going to be the misconceptions? Where are the students going to have errors in their thinking?

Debbie Robertson:

For example, if I see an assessment item that deals with measures of center. I may think yep, got it covered that we talked about mean-meaning mode. My kids can find mean-meaning mode like nobody's business. And then the assessment item actually says here are some measures of center mean median mode. Can you create a set of data in which these measures of center would be applicable? Again, that's a completely different skill set than me giving my students a set of data and saying can you find these measures of center? So we've aligned to our standards, we are aware of the assessment expectations and then we begin designing our instruction.

Debbie Robertson:

This idea of lesson planning. I think about Jason Kennedy, who wrote the book let's Stop Teaching and Start Designing Lessons. He says that lesson planning should be focused on what the teacher will be saying, assigning or assessing, but then lesson design focuses on what the students will be discussing and how they will demonstrate with, engage with or demonstrate their understanding. So the lesson planning involves alignment and even pacing. And then lesson design involves the actual learning experience. And then lesson design involves the actual learning experience.

Ashley Shaw:

Teachers plan the coherence piece, but design for the learning and understanding piece. Okay, and kind of speaking to that or what I think that you're saying here. I know something that I struggle with is that disconnect with the planning that I designed my lessons to be really fun and really engaging, to get them in class learning, but then I don't necessarily have that planning portion where I'm connecting that to the assessment. So the assessment is the dry boring. These are the facts that you need, but the lesson is like hands on, interactive and I'd never put in the design portion of the lesson that connection to help them make the connections to the assessment.

Debbie Robertson:

Yeah, yeah.

Debbie Robertson:

And so you know, and you hear people say I'm not going to teach to the test, I'm not. Well, if your tests are aligned to the standards, then why would you not want to prepare them for demonstration of mastery of the standards? And so I think sometimes as teachers, we get bogged down in the idea of I want my kids to have fun, I want them to be engaged, I want to hear them talking, but we don't really pay attention to, or we don't pay enough attention to, what are they talking about. So that's where that idea of designing instruction that, yes, it is engaging, I do need my kids up and moving and talking and debating and examining and exploring, but I need them to do that in such a way that they develop this deep understanding so that when they do have to demonstrate what they know on perhaps a dry, boring exam item, that they are so well prepared and confident and they persevere, that they are going to be able to express their understanding in a way that meets the mastery of the standard as designated by the assessment item.

Ashley Shaw:

So do you have any tips or ideas on how exactly to do that?

Debbie Robertson:

Yeah, so I think about as we look at our standards and we think about the level at which or the verbiage of the standard at which the students are going to have to demonstrate understanding. That's the serious part of lesson planning. I think that you can create engaging lessons in a way that promote student thinking. You know Ron Richard talks about learning is a result of thinking, and so we really need our students to think deeply about the big ideas of our grade level. I was teaching my students and this was an inclusion class of 40 students, and I was teaching my students, or we were engaged in instruction, around this idea of direct variation and inverse variation, and so I had to incorporate differentiation as well, and so what I did was I came up with some stories. One of them was my dog is lost and I'm offering $500 reward. The amount of money you get depends on how many of you are in the group that find her. Another one might have been we're going on a field trip and it costs X amount of dollars for each student to go. Depending on how many students go is how much the bus is going to charge us. So I just I came up with these ideas, these stories, these scenarios that my kids could really relate to. They understand going on a field trip. They understand someone's dog is lost and I'm going to have to find the dog and I can get this reward money. And then the differentiation piece of that was with my higher flying students. I just gave them the situations and had them, or the scenarios, and said you know, figure this out, like how, what are some values that might be realistic with these scenarios? And then with my students that were below grade level, I actually gave them the same scenarios, but I started them at a different place where I provided tables of values and I had actually put some values in the tables already. So really, there's, they did not have to. There were not as many decision points for that group.

Debbie Robertson:

So then the way we ended the activity was with my below-grade-level learners. I had given them a list of characteristics of direct and inverse variations and I asked them to create a bulletin board out of the characteristics of each, so they were able to create their list. Their characteristics were already written on sentence strips for them, my above grade level students. I just asked them to come up with a list like what do you notice about these? And so then, even though there was the differentiation piece, we were able to come back whole group and compare our lists and talk about okay, so together as a whole group, can we build a list of these attributes of direct or inverse variation. My students walked out of that classroom still talking about that. And so when my students engaged in something that was relevant to them, an activity or task that was relevant to them, and then created a kind of a synthesis of what was happening in that lesson, they owned that lesson and they understood it at a deeper level because they had experienced it.

Ashley Shaw:

Can I tell you, your example is interesting to me because my sister a couple of years ago.

Ashley Shaw:

Your example is interesting to me because my sister a couple years ago lost her dog in real life and I did a similar thing where I had them design lost dog flyers, not for her real dog. I didn't make them do my work for me, but Jessica gave me that inspiration to help them kind of figure out how to do one-page short communications. What would you put on it that's going to catch people's eye? But still do that. But it's just off topic, I know, but very interesting to me that in math and English. But we can still use the same real world scenario. Yeah, I love it.

Debbie Robertson:

You know, and you could partner with your English teacher and say you know, I've got this coming up. Can you have your students design these posters? I think about, from an ELA perspective, this idea of making sense of claims claims that are effective, claims that are ineffective. And you know, how do we engage students with that? Well, perhaps we just bring in some advertisements and we put them up and we ask kids to sort them into things. You know, claims that they feel are effective and claims that they feel are ineffective.

Debbie Robertson:

And the students get to thinking about this and talking about this and debating this and examining this, and that is what leads to a deeper understanding. It leads to a deeper understanding and a cross-curricular idea, for that would be remember the old toothpaste commercial about four out of five dentists recommend a certain brand of toothpaste. You know, having students debate is that effective, is it ineffective? And then in math, think about well, if they only ask five dentists, would that be an effective use of that? So then a cross-curricular connection to that would be then in their math class. If we've decided as a group or as individual students that yeah, four out of five dentists you know suggest this toothpaste, I think that's effective and someone else may think it's ineffective may think it's ineffective. Then in the math classroom we may think about or talk about okay, what does it mean for four out of five dentists to say they recommend this toothpaste? What if they only ask five dentists? Would it be different than if they asked 10,000 dentists? And it's still.

Debbie Robertson:

The ratio of dentists that said that they preferred this type of toothpaste was four to one that said that they did not prefer this type of toothpaste. So there are a lot of real world opportunities and scenarios that we can use to engage kids in developing this understanding. And the part of understanding that is so powerful and when we talk about designing lessons that help students develop that understanding is that students who have a deep understanding not just this superficial knowledge of how to do something, but just the understanding of why it works and how to use it and how to apply it is that they can take those understandings and then apply them outside of the science classroom or the math classroom or the ELA classroom to other curricula or to the real world that they live in. These lead to rich discussions and it fills their toolbox with confidence and thinking and reasoning strategies that they can apply inside the classroom and in their real life.

Ashley Shaw:

Well, I love that. I always try to look for real world connections, but I love the idea of connecting with cross-subject teachers so that you're working on the same problem and seeing how this real problem that you're working on that might be something you deal with in real life like a lost dog. It affects you in math, it affects you in English, it affects you in science. I'm sure scientists could study like the fence or something to go on a hunt to look for the dog.

Debbie Robertson:

I don't know.

Ashley Shaw:

I love that idea though.

Debbie Robertson:

Yeah. Or even you know, the science lesson that goes along with that could be the weather how does the weather impact? You know? How far does a dog travel and what about the terrain. So there's just so many things that you can support. This idea of this applies to all subjects and to your real life. I know my students would sometimes. Sometimes they would say, hey, like we did this in science. Yeah, you did, because this is a usable skill, you know, and this is a life skill that's going to apply in multiple situations and multiple scenarios.

Debbie Robertson:

So anytime students see the connection, that piques their interest as well, because then they it kind of creates this need to know. Oh, I need to pay attention to this because I want to know this, because this is going to to help me and support me in other areas. So it's not just an isolated, that's a math thing and that's a science topic and that's an ALA topic. No, these things all support the whole student. Yeah, no, these things all support the whole student, yeah. So and again, and you know, every day is not going to be a super engaging, exciting lesson, we just do not have time for every day to be like that but when we are learning the factual knowledge in a classroom. We need to know, and our students need to know, that today may not be a party, but there's a party coming where we're going to use this and we're going to engage in discourse around this and we're going to do something fun with this and something that's relevant and something that means something to our students.

Ashley Shaw:

I really love what you just said. That is something that I struggle with I think I said it in a couple of episodes ago, so I'm kind of repeating myself here, but I think you gave a different perspective on it is the idea that we had a lesson on. We had a episode on engagement and I was like, oh, I struggle with wanting every single lesson to be engaging and I don't want them to come in and be like, oh, wanting every single lesson to be engaging and I don't want them to come in and be like, oh, today we're talking about grammar and it's like how do you make grammar fun? But I love your idea of okay, today is the party prep. It's not the party. We have to prep for that party so that we can do a fun engaging lesson next week, but we have to know the grammar, we have to put up the streamers, we have to order the cake before we can have that party.

Debbie Robertson:

So I really love that analogy, Absolutely, Absolutely, yeah. Again, like someone's got to clean the house. If we're going to have a party, the house has to get cleaned. So you know, the workup may not be fun, but, man, the party's going to be, it's going to be really good and we're going to have a lot of fun with it.

Debbie Robertson:

I think this, when we are planning and when we are designing these experiences in which our students will gain this deeper understanding that goes just beyond learning a concept but really understanding the concept, I think that we have to get out of the mindset of covering our standards. You know, years ago the complaint was always that our standards were an inch deep and a mile wide. And then we had this push toward new standards, whether they were revised state standards or national standards that shifted our focus to being an inch wide and a mile deep. But unfortunately, the mindset has not permeated every classroom. And so I think, in the planning process, when you are looking at your standards and you're digging into your standards and you're thinking about your assessment items, I think that a great thing to think about, an important thing to think about, is this idea of what are my grade level concepts, what are the big ideas that my students, if they walk out of my classroom knowing these five things or having a deep understanding of these five things, what would those be? For instance, in seventh grade math. That if my students walk out of my classroom rock solid in proportional reasoning and understanding, reasoning and understanding I have set them on a path of success for future math, future endeavors, whatever they want to do post-secondary.

Debbie Robertson:

So I am responsible for always even these little supporting standards. To go back and say, how do we look at this through a proportional lens? Or how do we look at this through number sense? How do we use number sense? So I just lesson planning is a process and successful teaching and learning do not happen by accident. They have to be orchestrated and intentional. And teaching instruction is not about simply preparing them for a test, although having those assessment items in mind as they indicate what mastery of the standard looks like, is important. But teaching and learning is more about preparing students to be successful post-secondary, whatever that looks like for them. Because we have to think about we're preparing them for jobs that don't even exist and there's some uncertainty about that. But what is not uncertain is that we must do better. We have to provide them with learning that transcends our content and even the school building, and when our students are fully prepared, they become confident risk takers, and that serves to benefit their community and society as a whole.

Ashley Shaw:

Well, I love those.

Ashley Shaw:

I do want to do like a little wrap up where I tell you what I learned from you today and you tell me if I learned what I was supposed to learn. Yeah, yeah, I have been taking my notes. I like a good student, looking at what my actual standards are, what do I want them to take away from the class when they leave and figuring out how I can design lessons that actually lead to that, as opposed to what do I want the lessons to be, and then hope they go to the assessment. So that's my first step. And then the second thing is, once I actually start designing the lessons that use them to help them see real-world connections to what they're learning, I can focus on having them think and explore, but they're still targeted towards that final objective.

Ashley Shaw:

Other things, really good ideas that you gave me partner with other grade levels, other people in my department and the one that I really had never thought about, other subjects, so that we can use common examples that they can put through all the different things so that they really get it Sure. And then, of course, remember that sometimes your lessons are the party prep, not the party, and you have to get ready for that fun, engaging lesson by doing the menial labor that maybe we don't always like to do in class.

Debbie Robertson:

Yeah, that's good.

Ashley Shaw:

Okay, good, I'm glad that I followed along with you.

Debbie Robertson:

Yes, yes, that's a good summary.

Ashley Shaw:

Yeah, okay, and thank you so much for these tips. The bell you just heard means we're almost out of time, but before you leave, will you give me some homework to put these tips into practice?

Debbie Robertson:

Yes. So here's what I would give you as homework. I would obviously engage in the backwards design planning, that model of planning, but I would take it even a step further. And so here's what your homework is. Your homework is to think about your grade level content and come up with five to six big ideas. Five to six big ideas, that big concepts. What is your grade level, what are the concepts that your grade level are grounded in, and chart those out, and so that when you're designing these other lessons, how can you tie those back to one of those big ideas? And so that your students continue to spiral back around to this idea of, like one of the big concepts that's in your grade level. So that would be my homework, for you was come up with a list of the big ideas and major concepts of your grade level.

Ashley Shaw:

All right, well, I will do that, and everybody listening at home, feel free to do your homework too and share with us on social Debbie, thank you so much for coming today. This has been a lot of fun and I've learned a lot. Thanks, ashley, I appreciate you. Have a great rest of your day, you, too. Bye-bye.

Daniel Rock:

What did you think about that, Ashley? Did you find that helpful?

Ashley Shaw:

Of course I did. Now, whether or not I make myself actually plan that's to be seen, but if I do sit down and do a plan, I feel like I have some really great tips to get me started.

Daniel Rock:

So there's some things that she said and did with you that I want to highlight for anyone out there who's working with coaches or is a coach and is sort of listening from that perspective. One thing I heard was how she started the conversation was asking you tell me how you plan. So she kind of diagnosed big picture, Well, she has a planning issue and instead of telling you ways to plan better, she asked you to describe your planning process.

Ashley Shaw:

Yes, she did.

Daniel Rock:

And great coaches always seek first to understand, then to be understood, as Mr Stephen Covey teaches us. So I really appreciated the way that she started off with that question and then listened to you and then peppered you with more questions to better understand what's happening.

Ashley Shaw:

And can I tell you you just did something that she also did, that I liked when she did it, so I'll also compliment you which is she didn't just use her own expertise, she brought in other experts to support what she was saying, and I really appreciated that. It made me feel like she had done her research.

Daniel Rock:

Yeah, great coaches need to be fluent in the latest and greatest of what works in education and not necessarily work just from what our own experience is, because what worked for me doesn't necessarily predict what's going to work for you, and we want to be able to use things that can predict success, like if we do this, there's a high likelihood. So I think that's really important. I'm glad you highlighted that. Another thing I saw her do was define the key terms that she wanted to use.

Daniel Rock:

Notice how she really zeroed in on design and talked about not just lesson planning but designing a unit, and she defined lesson planning as these are the steps I'm gonna do in my lesson as I interact and engage with the students. Lesson design she defined as what are my assessments, what are my assignments, what are the checkpoints. Think of it as designing a house where everything needs to be and how it's going to stay up and be sturdy, versus building the house as it goes, versus, you know, building the house as it goes. And she was very clear about defining the term and then comparing two terms so that you could really have a better understanding. Whenever you compare and contrast, it clarifies in our minds what it is you're trying to explain.

Ashley Shaw:

Yes, that's a really good point. It does help when I can see what it is and see what it isn't.

Daniel Rock:

Yeah, and that's just the way the brain works. Teachers know that being in classrooms when you can show students the similarities and differences between two concepts, it helps them better understand those concepts. And I think I just did this next one. The last thing I want to talk about is she spoke to you in analogies to help clarify what it means to design and plan. She talked about planning a party right and talked about all how, if you want to have a good party, it's not just ordering the balloons, ordering the food, cleaning up ahead of time, but thinking about big picture.

Daniel Rock:

Okay, what do I want my people's experience to be? What do I want them to get out of this party? What kind of dancing do I want? What's the mood of the party, what's the vibe, what's the intention? Those are all design questions. So one thing as a coach, part of our job is making some complicated ideas understandable to a large group of people. Communicating and using analogies to make your point clear can really help, and again, that transfers to the classroom. So, with teachers to students, helping the teacher create analogies in their classroom is great, and even better is if your students make analogies about what they're learning. That's extremely a powerful practice.

Ashley Shaw:

Yeah, and I know that analogy the party analogy I struggle so much with. I don't want any of my lessons to be boring and I know I analogy the party analogy I struggle so much with. I don't want any of my lessons to be boring and I know I've said that in a couple of episodes. But as soon as she said the party analogy, it clicked in my head and I was like, oh, that's exactly how I have to think about it. I mean it works so well to throw that in, because I have planned parties before and I do know how much planning it takes and I do know that it's more fun when you've done that planning. So it made perfect sense to me.

Daniel Rock:

And it goes back to helping people learn something new based on what they already know and connecting the familiar with the unfamiliar, and it's something that any you know. As a coach, your job is basically to teach adults, but hopefully you can use it and then help your teachers use that strategy in their classroom. I'm sure Debbie does that all the time when she does model lessons and classes, as she knows she does a lot of.

Ashley Shaw:

Yeah, I love using analogies. I love that she used analogies and I can definitely see that how that's helpful. So thank you again for coming in and telling us what makes a good coach. As always, your tips are great.

Daniel Rock:

I look forward to seeing what you have to learn next time.

Ashley Shaw:

All right, and I look forward to meeting your next coach. Thanks, all right, bye-bye, bye.