Class-Act Coaching: A Podcast for Teachers and Instructional Coaches

Empowering Students with Real-World Communication Skills

• Season 1 • Episode 8

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Unlock the secrets to transforming your classroom into a dynamic workplace simulation with insights from our extraordinary guest, Marty Sugerik. With a wealth of experience drawn from both military and educational realms, Marty delivers invaluable strategies to enhance students' communication and collaboration skills. Discover how we can extend the classic "think-pair-share" method by incorporating world language research's "three modes of communication," empowering students to adapt these skills across diverse subjects and careers.

Explore a structured, hands-on approach to cultivating workplace collaboration skills that goes beyond traditional classroom practices. With a practical three-step process, students first engage in independent problem-solving tasks before collaborating with peers to refine their approaches through visual tools like Venn diagrams. As educators, we step into the role of an employer, offering constructive feedback to help students elevate their presentations and communication skills, collecting qualitative evidence of student understanding to guide future instruction.

Gain valuable perspectives on preparing students for the realities of the workforce by simulating professional environments within the classroom. Learn how acting as an employer can set clear expectations and establish a connection between classroom activities and future career paths. Marty also shares innovative ways to adapt the "think-pair-share" strategy for digital hybrid environments, emphasizing the importance of customizing these techniques to suit your educational needs. Don't miss this opportunity to enrich your teaching methods with practical insights and resources shared throughout our conversation.

Check out Marty's Google folder to get all the materials referenced in this episode, and feel free to send him questions at marty.sugerik at sreb.org.

The Southern Regional Education Board is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization that works with states and schools to improve education at every level, from early childhood through doctoral education and the workforce.


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Hi, and welcome back. This is Ashley Shaw and this week Dan's back with us. Welcome back, Dan Rock. Hey, Ashley, what's going on? Just this podcast episode, I guess I have nothing else on my mind, but how we can help all the listeners out there today. How about you? Same. 100 percent focused on giving our listeners some practical, ideas for rockin and rollin in the classroom. All right. Well, I'm excited to hear who you have planned for me today. Well, tell me what's on your mind. What kind of problems are you, facing these days? All right. A couple of weeks ago, you sent Leslie Eves in to talk to me about how to create an authentic work experience in the classroom. And I really enjoyed that. And I thought it might be nice if I had a little bit more ideas about like specific assignments that I could try. to make my classroom feel more like an authentic work experience. Do you have somebody that can help me with that? You know, I think I do. We have a gentleman named Marty Sugeric. He has a fascinating background in the military and working on a nuclear I don't know if it was a nuclear sub or a nuclear, ship. He was, you know, working with some high technical equipment for the U. S. military. And then he changed from that to being an educator and a math teacher. And always working with project based learning, working with math teachers, but also career technical teachers. And he really understands ways to help students think like they are preparing for a role in the workplace and helping teachers see their students through the prism. But what I like about Marty is he can really find easy to implement and not necessarily simple, but not too complex strategies. So I'm going to bring in Marty and I think he's going to have some great ideas for you. All right, well, I'm looking forward to hearing from him. Hi, Marty. How are you? Hey, Ashley, how are you doing today? I am pretty good. Thank you so much for being here. I'm really excited to hear what you have to talk to me about today. Uh, before we get into that though, would you mind telling me or telling all of us a little bit about yourself? Well, my name is Marty Shigeric and this is my 13th year as an instructional coach working with SREB. Uh, but what led me here was actually, I started my teaching career while I was active duty in the Navy. I was a nuclear engineer on the USS Virginia guided missile cruiser. And my CEO asked me to be an instructor. And from there. I got out of the Navy in 96 and got my, uh, degree in math and started teaching secondary post secondary math for 15 years. And during that time, I, started instructional coaching with the state department in North Carolina. And that led me to SREB and the role I'm at now. Well, I really love that you have a background that's not fully teaching because I do as well. And I started before I ever taught a class, I worked in a legal position, and then I worked in, marketing for a long time. And part of the reason I went back and started teaching is because I had so many colleagues that I worked with that didn't know, anything about basic stuff around communications and writing and things like that. And I was like, shouldn't they be learning this in school? Uh, why don't they know how to do this? Why am I always giving lessons to my colleagues on how to do some of this stuff? And so I started teaching because I wanted to help students. figure out how to kind of do the things they're going to do in the workplace before they get into the workplace, especially as relates to specific subjects. Obviously, every teacher is a little different. And so I asked Dan to find me somebody, and obviously he knew exactly what he was doing because he picked somebody else with an industry background. who could help me get some ideas on how to help simulate the workplace in the classroom. Obviously for me, I have an English background, but for any teacher of any subject. And so that's what I asked you here today for. Can you help me with that? I sure can. And like you, , experience in the military, when I got into public education. It was that, you know, trying to educate kids on or anybody for that matter, that whatever we're teaching or learning, like mathematics was my specialties. It doesn't happen in a vacuum in the workplace. So regardless of whatever I was doing in the Navy with math and science, which were my strengths and my degree was in. I had to write. I was listening. I was communicating. I was, you know, technical drawings and following procedures and reviewing safety. So I felt that bringing that into the classroom might leverage students into maybe taking a harder look at the math. So the strategy I'm here to share with is everybody's pretty familiar with think pair share. And it's used for obviously for guided practice. So what we have done to simulate the workplace with that is I actually found some research world languages where they use something called three modes of communication with students on the process of how to speak and simulate speaking. And so those three modes align nicely with think pair share. But more importantly, they align with what happens at work. Sometimes we work alone. Sometimes we have to work with other people, a colleague, a supervisor,, a customer, a client, right? A vendor, so many there. And then the third level that goes beyond think pair share is that. Sometimes we have to present. So it's not uncommon for our employers to ask us to share something at a meeting or share something in shift turnover or share the calendar with your group. It aligns nicely, but it takes think pair share to a whole nother level, and that strategy is what we're going to use to try to leverage kids to actually work alone by themselves and simulate that, then shift over to, oh, I've got to work with a colleague now, and I have to share what I've been working on and listen. to what they've been working on. And then that third layer is my employer asks us to speak to the rest of the group on what we were doing. So it really simulates what kids will see regardless of occupation and regardless of what we're teaching in the classroom. It teaches that process of we have to be adaptable and flexible. In our communication skills. So I think when students see that we're actually practicing that skill set in class, math becomes easier in terms of getting them engaged. And that's the whole goal of this is to get students to solve in mathematics or any content area, right? Doesn't Right. But we're trying to get them to problem solve, but try it on their own, then work with a colleague and then present out what take action. And that's weaning them off. the dependency of the teacher, which is a struggle with every teacher, right? Students want you to stand next to them, maybe Yes, hand, right? And kind of walk them through. And this is weaning them. And an important part of this to echo to students is that that is the same process when they onboard employees. You are, you are most likely going to be micromanaged as a brand new employee because you're not, you have not earned. The trust and respect and responsibility yet. But our goal as an employee is how quickly can I get to a place where I'm an independent employee, trusts me, and they know I'm going to ask a question if I have it, I'm going to follow procedure. So when that story is embedded with students. As to why we're going to do this simulation, that's where I think we're getting the kids to engage. And then that allows any teacher to drop in any content they want to use in that process. I love that because I know that's something that I struggle with. I definitely go back and forth in my own teaching with exactly what you just said, where I want to help my students. I want to be there for them, but also I'm like, am I enabling them? Cause I do have that workplace background that I know some teachers don't have where I'm like, I know they're not getting this support. They need to figure stuff out on their own. Once they get out of my class, once they're in the workforce, I want them to start moving towards that. But I also don't want to be like, Figure it out on your own, you know, if they come and ask me a question. And so I struggle with the balance of helping my students, but also not having them rely on me. And I really liked that this process sounds like it's going to help me with that. So I'm excited to learn more. Well, I'd like to add, you bring up a great point. And then this is, I think, where we get a shift in mindset with students. So when we measure their performance, So when we talk about, okay, kids, we're going to do three modes of communication and we're going to go through this process, educating students on, and they get in a mind shift that we are measuring your performance on your employability skills. So we're looking for communication collaboration. We're not concerned with the math content of whether you get it right or wrong. We are concerned with How are you thinking? What are you thinking in the process of trying to solve it? And that's a tough one for kids to grasp, right? Is it you're going, wait a minute, you're not looking at whether I'm right or wrong in the math. Well, I am looking, but I'm, I'm, I'm looking more into why are you making the decisions you're making? In this problem, because that is how I can help you with reteaching. And I think many times we may know that as a teacher, but do we communicate that to the kids? That why are we doing it this way? Why is the teacher not going to tell you if you're right or wrong, because they're going to ask you questions with a question. And that was my big struggle is when you do walk up onto two steps. Students struggling or you see them working together, you know, effectively, but they're on the wrong path. How do you ask questions? So they answer their own question. was a huge, right? Because it's easy for me. My first year of teaching is grab their pencil and go up. You're doing it wrong here. Do it this way. And then it hit what exactly what you were saying, Marty became the enabler and that passed through like wildfire, the kids were all at. Just tell him you don't know how to do it and he'll be over. So that's shifting over. And I'd like to, I'd like to say, put a plug for a past episode there. Cause we did a few weeks ago, have an episode on asking great questions in class. And so. I think that kind of helps to what you're just saying is, uh, go listen to Jason Adair's episode about asking great questions. If you want to know more about how to do exactly what Marty just said. So a quick strategy I use because, you know, is I look for, and I use the acronym or whatever the kids use, OMGs. Oh, okay. I'm doing is before I run this activity, I encourage all teachers to do the activity themselves. And it has nothing to do with your class. content knowledge. But if Marty goes through the problem and I'm doing it, I can stop and ask myself, now where would kids go in the wrong direction? When would they add here instead of subtract? And by identifying those obstacles, misconceptions, gaps, that's what I call OMGs, script my questions ahead of time. So I, because I can already anticipate, I know these kids have been teaching this long. They always make this mistake. I can front load my questions on scripts. And I did that for multiple years until it became embedded in just my questioning skills, right? Is it, you know, I think people forget as teachers, we have to discipline ourselves. When changing our behaviors. It doesn't happen overnight. And so I like the scripting and then and when I, you know, I encourage teachers when you go through and do it yourself, but from the lens of. Where would my kids go the wrong direction here? You you end up writing your script so easy and then it just empowers you because you're walking around the class. You become more proactive as a teacher. you're walking up to a pair going. Gee, what should I ask? You're walking up going. I see what they're doing. I'm going to ask this question because I know I'll get this response. Well, one thing you said there that I was going to be a question I asked you, but I think you kind of answered it. And I just want to pull it out is for all the, so I'm an English and communications teacher. I, The fact that we're teaching communications in every class, to me, I'm like, yes, that's important, but I can see a math or a science teacher, for example, being like, okay, that's nice that we're teaching communications, but I do want to focus on the math content. I don't want to focus on the communications. I'm not a communications teacher, and I was going to ask you about that, but then I think you just said something that I want to pull from what you just said, which is, You're not, so you're teaching it this way so that you can, they can communicate their thinking to you so you as the teacher can see this is where they're not understanding how to do these math problems and then you can adjust your lessons based off of that. Is that correct? it is. And then to add to that is they use to they use a graphic organizer during the collaboration piece. So sometimes they work alone. Then they turn to their partner. By documenting a Venn diagram, I have them write similarities in blue pen, they had their differences in pencil. So now I can collect all those Venn diagrams and go through them over a cup of coffee, and I have identified exactly what do they all think that's correct, and what do they all have in different, and that starts it. The second piece is during presentations. Every student in the audience that's listening to two students present out their thinking is required to give constructive feedback. And I use something from accountable talk. I give the students three prompts, validate the person who's presenting. I like that. And then you fill in the blank. And then the second one is, have you considered, which we teach kids, that's an opportunity for you to share a resource or an idea or tool To a pair of kids that don't have that tool. And then the third one is I wonder if, which is cool feedback. I wonder if you were to do this in your presentation and speak louder here. And, uh, you know, so then you're gathering two pieces of evidence and it's qualitative, right? But it's, that's guided practice, right? The goal was How do I adjust my instruction on Thursday based on what we just did on, on this Wednesday? However, I can collect their work and grade it for content as well. Okay, so it gets both. It's an option. But since most of the time I'm working with teachers looking at formative assessment, I've been teaching for a couple days on a topic. I want to see if these kids can do some problem solving with it and what they've retained. This is kind of the strategy we would go for rather than a summative assessment. Okay, I love that. I think that's a great idea. I noticed, all right, I know that you said there are kind of three different steps to this process Yes. and maybe we can break it down and we can talk a little bit about each step individually so that we can kind of understand what it is, why it works, and how to do it in our classrooms. So can we start with the first step? I know you said it's individual, they're on their own, so tell us a little bit about that. the instructor is going to play the role of the employer and simply tell the class, listen, you're all my employees, you're working alone. Now you can use your notes, your books, you can reuse resources. We let the kids, you know, obviously if they have a computer access to the internet, they can use their resources because we want to simulate, hey, you're at work. These tools are available, but you could always say, well, the computers are down and and and restrict it. But we simulate you're working out and we give them a fixed time for the next five minutes. You need to work on this problem by yourself and document how you're solving it, whether you know how to do it or not. What do you know? So the teacher is walking around the classroom as the employer, and our job is to encourage That's it. Print neater. That's it. Put down your thoughts. Mr. Sugerik, I don't know what this is. Just put down what you do know, right? It's just like at work. If you did, right, just document your thinking. Then we'll call time. That's when you direct them to turn to a colleague. And I like the word this is, this is step two, right? two. Yeah. to the colleague. Okay. go to colleague and now kids were going to simulate that at work. you go to your boss or would you go to a colleague first, we go to a colleague first. I want you to turn to a colleague you're going to take your Venn diagram and you're going to take turns speaking about how you solve the problem, sharing your thinking and the other person's going to listen to that. And then you're going to switch and then you're going to document your similarities and differences in your thinking on the Venn diagram. So we, I, you know, painting that protocol out. you two are doing that, your teacher's going to play the role of the employer and I am going to walk around and observe and listen to your thinking, what you're writing, what you're documenting about your discussions. And my role will simply to be asked clarifying questions. So I'm going to play the role of an employer. Hey, how you doing, Ashley and Bobby? Alright, I see you're working on this over here. Can you explain why you chose to use that method? That's interesting. So I'm going to simulate clarifying questions and that way I can dig deeper into why are students making the moves differently. They're making And I like that. You're saying, sorry, I like that. I like that you're saying that you are the employer. Because even though you might not be doing really anything different than you would as a teacher without playing that role, I do think it's important for students to start to see there are employers in their life. They, I know that I've had students say like, Oh, you know, I want to do it this way. Why do I have to do it your way? And sometimes maybe there's not a great reason. I usually try to give them a good reason, but sometimes it's just, Hey, if you're in a workplace, if you're in a situation, you're always going to have somebody saying it needs to be this amount of words. It needs to be. This style guide that you're using, and you have to know how to do that to help your employer. And I like that, even though it doesn't really change much, I don't think about what you're doing. Just pretending, just that concept of letting them think, this is what happens in a workplace, lets them realize, okay, this is, this is going to be my life. Sometimes I'm going to be I'm glad you brought that up because so here's how this gets amplified is during this process and stage one stage two, we use visuals to support it right just exactly so I can talk it. the kids have to think, okay, if I was at work, but if I have video that I can pull up of someone working alone at work, I can pull up pictures of people working with other people at work. And in a third level, we've even had teachers bring in guest speakers from industry Right, And that's, that's where I think we take it to the next level is that if students here. And see it from the teacher, but then they see photos and videos. it brings validation to what we're doing, because it's like, you can argue all day long, but you can Google it yourself. I guarantee whatever job you have, you got to know how to talk to people. right, so yeah, I'm good. So, and then, and then that third level, which I like, right. With guided practices. So the teacher's walking around during phase two and you have all your kids and pairs. out their Venn diagrams. I'm looking for a pair of students who can explain the correct answer, right? right, first thing kids are going to want to hear. So that's one. Another pair of students I will often target to present out what I call the AHA kids. These are a pair of students that maybe were solving the problem incorrectly, struggling, I walked up as their employer, asked them some clarifying questions, and my questions served as the catalyst for them to go, Oh, we should have added five instead of subtracted. Because we all know that when you can figure out your own mistake, often don't make those mistakes in the right. that's an I call those aha pairs. So if I have a pair of students that went down the wrong road and corrected themselves, I will also have them come up and present because it's important for our students to hear that problem solving is just that. You don't always get it right on the first try, but it's okay. I really like that. the third one is I look for a pair of kids that I call extenders. And it doesn't always happen, but there will be times when you have students who will not only solve the problem correctly, they will go on and have an interesting conversation that extends their thinking. And in our, in SREB's PBL process, we call this sustained inquiry. So I have two kids that go, yeah, the security camera costs this much, but you know what? I wonder if we two of them, if you could get a deal and I want them to present out because not only can they validate, yep, we got the right answer, just like the other two did, but we were also thinking about this. And I think when a teacher validates students and shows the class that they value thinking beyond the problem. This is something that employers are looking for as well, right? Is that employee who's not only going to do the job, but they're going to look at the next thing, how to make things better, those types of things. And I think when that gets illustrated, again, we get more leverage with kids when they go, you know what? like math. I don't like school, but what we're doing, I can see as valuable for me in the workplace. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And you did, note that this is kind of like think, pair, share, which a lot of people already know. Expand on the differences for me. So when I, and I can only speak for myself on this, but when I was trained on think pair share, it was as simple as, Oh, just have the kids work independently for a couple minutes. And then have them pair and share and that, and that will spontaneously happen. And, uh, so I got out of the Navy and tried that technique and it did not work. Uh, so liked what it was doing. The intent of think pair share is just that. Can you work independently? Can you work collaboratively? if I can structure it in a way that ties into, so for example, one of the additional pieces that I didn't talk about is that This strategy is part of something of simulating an employee performance evaluation. So what I can bring in is that, hey kids, what do employers measure once you become an employee? And that's easy to pull up those documents and kids can see, oh, relationship with colleagues. Am I a team player? Do I have an urge to learn at work? You know, they can see this and then they can start to see that what I'm having you do will provide evidence for that. So it even, it even gives kids this idea of we're practicing so that you become an better employee so you can document your skills when going for a pay raise or a new job promotion or something along those lines. So it carries that, that third level. ThinkPairShare stopped at the collaborative. Where three modes of communication adds the presentational component, which is selecting pairs of kids to come up and speak. I think that added level, I think the fact that the students know that we're measuring them on their communication and collaboration skills specifically. So we actually use a rubric so the kids have a clear learning target. This is what our employers looking for and they can start to work on those behaviors and practices. So structure for Think, Pair, Share was really just shot up with steroids. We've Right. embedded it in a simulated workplace. We've tied in graphic organizers to document evidence. That probably was the biggest thing, is getting, okay, if these kids are actually pairing and sharing, how are we capturing that? That's valuable data that gets overlooked is when you listen to two kids sharing how they're solving it, how many times does another student solve an issue that another student was having and clear up a misconception before they even go to the teacher? So that happens. and that is extremely powerful because informative assessment, we know students need to see each other as resources for learning, just like they would at work. I need to see my colleagues as resources for learning and that helps them move to independence. So I think, I think those stories of tying that back and that's why we create a slide deck to paint that picture for kids. And now I know that you said that, that you use a graphic organizer. Do you have a sample graphic organizer that we can share in the show notes? Share to I will share the Venn diagram, which. I use because as a math teacher, it's part of my curriculum and it also serves as a similarity and differences document. But thinking maps.com is where I go to for my graphic organizers, and that is very powerful because I think a lot of us learn you, you strategically pick a graphic organizer to solicit what you're trying to get. I mean, if I wanna see what kids are similarities and differences in their thinking. I need a graphic organizer that allows them to, you know, transfer that information down. So the double bubble map, and I have copies of both that I can share with everyone. all right. That's great. So you can find those in the show notes. That'll help you do this activity in your class. Do you have any final things you want to share before we wrap up? I, I love is I have, this is 13 years across the country working with SREB and I have shared this with teachers. And what I love is when they take it and they put their own thumbprint on it. So when I model this in my professional development, right, we'll actually model, they'll role play as students and I role play as the teacher and then I give them time to customize it because although Marty had it set up and it worked for him, love for teachers to go and then I, I learned from that. So. Using technology, which I did not have a lot of when I was in the classroom. Nowadays, teachers have been very helpful of giving me strategies of Marty. Could we can we do this digitally? Could you do this in Microsoft Teams hybrid version of the same thing? Because if you think about it, they're going to walk in a hybrid workplace. And how many times do we collaborate right now? You and I, Right. many times do we collaborate through virtual emails? Podcasts, zoom sessions. So I love that, you know, teachers share back things that'll take a basic structure, three modes of communication, and they can really take it and personalize it, , themselves to meet their specific needs. So Um, I think that's great. And I hope everybody out there, if you Do this. If you try it and you customize it in any way, let us know on social media, how you use this and how it worked for you. So that bell means we're almost out of time. It's time for you to give us some homework and I know that you sent me a Google folder to share with everybody. That'll be in the show notes. So I know that your homework has something to do with this Google folder. What do you want us to do with that? Okay. In the Google folder, it's basically a toolkit. You will find a slide presentation, which is basically a storyboard. We use this to teach the students the process of Of three modes of communication, it answers how, when, why, where, what, so one is to review that and process that for yourself included in the folder are also the graphic organizers rubrics and some other resources aligned with the research., the first thing I always do is ask participants unpack the folder itself and just go through it and then you can email me directly if you have clarifying questions. I would like you to go ahead and nothing ventured, nothing gained. Go ahead and start it. Just try it. Just give it a shot and walk it through and give me feedback on how it works. Now, we all know that you need to run it more than one time, give yourself a good sample size, but I would love to hear back about people that are doing it. And if you're already doing something similar and you have suggestions, homework would be to pay it forward and reciprocate. We, SREB is a network, so I love hearing from other teachers and then sharing what they're doing. your success with other teachers across state lines. So those are all good homework strategies. You mentioned a lot about contacting you. Do you mind if I share your email address so that they can contact you if they do have those questions? Yep. All right. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for this great lesson. I am looking forward to seeing what people do with the homework assignment you gave, and I hope that they try this and that it's very successful for them. Thank you for coming today. It's been great talking with you. Thanks for the opportunity. I love sharing, what's, what are strategies there that will help teachers. So I appreciate just the opportunity to be here. All right. Well, have a great day and a great rest of your week. You as well, Ashley. Bye. Was some great ideas from Marty. Yes, it was. I really enjoyed that. Marty is a really wonderful presenter and is able to explain things in such clear ways. It really helps to understand. Yes, I agree. He did a great job of saying things so clearly. I want to highlight something that he has teachers do that I think maybe was just mentioned, and I want to sort of put a fine point on it. Do you recall that he asked teachers to complete their own assignments before they give them to students? Is that the OMGs? OMGs, that's right. And what does OMG stand for? Opportunities is the O. That's right. And then Misconceptions is the M, That's right. and gaps. So a teacher will take the assignment. And if I'm a writing teacher, I would actually write the essay. If I'm doing a short answer or a free response question, I want to answer those. And I'm going to think about Hmm. As I've done this assignment, what are likely going to be opportunities for them to show what they know, misconceptions that they might have, and gaps? Now, I can do that when I do the assignment, and then I can do it when I get the student work. So, as an instructional coach, one thing is I can bring the student work together, I can have the teachers assign an assignment, bring it to my PLC, and we can, as a team, look for OMGs opportunities, misconceptions, and gaps. We can look at maybe five different assignments, one at a high level, one at a middle level, and one at a low level and fill that out. I love that one, yeah, that's one coaching move. And the second is a coach can use that mindset with their own professional learning. So I'm teaching, you know, I focus with literacy. And I want teachers to use a summary strategy. Before I stand up in front of, 50 teachers and ask them to use this in the classroom. What I recommend to our coaches is make sure you have a, what I call a, lab class. This is a teacher who's a good, maybe a buddy of yours who has a lot of trust and you know them and you say, I want to teach this strategy because I'm going to teach this to the faculty. But before I do, I want to use it in your classroom to make sure, you know, it does what I want it to do. With your students. So I'll teach the strategy and then I'll pull that teacher aside afterward and say, so we're using this strategy. What are some of the opportunities, misconceptions and gaps you think will apply to your colleagues? So thinking about OMGs from the perspective of a PLC for students, but then OMGs from the perspective of before I have my teachers complete this task or this strategy or this practice, do it yourself and work out the OMGs on your own. What do you think? I think those sound great and I hope they're helpful to all the instructional coaches and school leaders out there that may be listening to this right now. So thank you once more for coming in and sharing your coaching tips with us. It is my pleasure. I look forward to seeing you again next week. All right, have a good rest of your week. You too. Bye.