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Class-Act Coaching: A Podcast for Teachers and Instructional Coaches
Join us each week as a different SREB instructional coach walks our host through different teaching concerns in the world of K12. Teachers will gain valuable teaching insights and instructional coaches will see a model coaching session.
Class-Act Coaching: A Podcast for Teachers and Instructional Coaches
Active Learning Through Collaborative Note-Taking
Unlock the secrets of effective note-taking in our latest episode, promising to transform how students and educators grasp and retain information. Our engaging conversation with Donn Kirkwood, a senior leadership coach with a specialty in literacy, provides a treasure trove of practical strategies designed to boost understanding and retention in classroom settings. We explore the pitfalls of relying solely on technology, like snapping pictures of slides, and delve into the power of translating information into one's own words for a deeper learning experience.
Discover innovative ways to enhance classroom discussions through diverse note-taking methods that encourage unique perspectives and peer interaction. We introduce dynamic activities such as "speed dating" and inner-outer circles, which create opportunities for students to share, validate, and refine their notes collaboratively. These approaches not only build confidence but also ensure that students are equipped to apply their notes to future learning situations, ultimately fostering mastery of the material.
Experience the impact of active note-taking strategies on student learning and memory retention. We highlight the importance of repetition and experiential learning, introducing the three-column note-taking format that encourages summarization, reflection, and real-world application of key concepts. With these tools, educators can better prepare students for assessments and assignments, ensuring that knowledge is solidified in long-term memory. Delve into the intricate dance between cognitive processes and instructional coaching as we reveal insights from our discussion with Dawn, setting the stage for future dialogues on mastering cognition in education.
Download Donn's Three-Column Notetaking handout.
The Southern Regional Education Board is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization that works with states and schools to improve education at every level, from early childhood through doctoral education and the workforce.
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Hello, welcome back to the podcast. I'm Ashley Shaw. As usual, I'll be the host of this episode, and with me is my co-host, dan Rock. Welcome, dan.
Speaker 2:Hey, how are you doing Ashley?
Speaker 1:I am doing great. I am really looking forward to our topic today because it's something that I know. I struggle with a lot in my classes, so I'm hoping that we're going to have a really great lesson today. With a lot in my classes, so I'm hoping that we're going to have a really great lesson today.
Speaker 2:Well, I think you're going to really like it, because I've got some good people lined up for you in the next few episodes. What is something that you're concerned about?
Speaker 1:Okay. So this is something that actually I could improve on, not just my students, so I can't really judge them for this. But one thing that they're not great at that I'm also not great at is taking notes. I want them to actually, when we are talking about things in class, take notes on it, and take notes that are actually going to help them, and I want to learn how to take notes that will actually help me, so I'm going to help everybody today. Do you have anybody that can help with that?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's a great thing to think about as a teacher, because we assume that we all agree what taking notes means and what effective ways there are, and the question is is there certain strategies that have been proven to help kids retain information? The best person I think to help you with that is Don Kirkwood. Don Kirkwood is a senior leadership coach. He works all over the country with teachers and leaders and helps them use really some of the best evidence-based practices. He really has a deep understanding of what the science of learning is, and I think that is the kind of help that's going to really appeal to what you're trying to do. So let's get Don in here.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm looking forward to talking to him and I'll talk to you after the episode. Excellent.
Speaker 3:Hi Don, Hi Ashley, Thank you for this amazing opportunity to sit down and talk about note-taking today.
Speaker 1:I am looking forward to it, because if you can help me get my students to be better note-takers, then I am going to love this episode. But before we get into that, can you please tell me a little bit about who you are?
Speaker 3:I am Dawn Kirkwood, a senior leadership coach at the Southern Regional Education Board, where I focus on improving literacy skills across the nation, especially in the South. My work involves collaborating with educational leaders to develop instructional frameworks with professional support, and then working with teachers to implement strategies that enhance literacy outcomes for students at every stage of learning. I am passionate about the role literacy plays in shaping personal and academic success. I am committed to helping schools and communities create environments where all learners could thrive and reach their full potential.
Speaker 1:Well, that sounds great. As an ELA instructor, anybody that focuses on literacy is a great person. But also it's a really helpful thing, because today I would like to talk to you about some tips on getting my students to be better note takers and hey, I need to take notes sometimes too. Maybe you'll give me some tips on how to be a better note taker that I can use along with my students. So I think somebody focused on literacy should be pretty good at that. What do you have for us about note taking?
Speaker 3:Well, let me just ask a simple question how are you taking notes right now?
Speaker 1:So you mean my students or me, Like right now. You said you're taking notes.
Speaker 3:I see the pen in your.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Do you have a strategy that you feel that works?
Speaker 1:I have a piece of blank paper that says Don's episode note-taking. That's what it says at the top and I literally just write down ideas that you give me as you go. I'll just write down things that you say to me that I think will help me in my class, and at the end of this episode I might do a little wrap up. But there is no strategy involved. It is literally a blank piece of paper.
Speaker 3:What is the strategy you use with your students within your classroom?
Speaker 1:I have slides. Sometimes I try not to rely too much on slides, but I do have slides and I tell them okay, every research out there says you'll do better if you write down the notes in your own words. So I will not share my slides afterwards, except for in special circumstances. You have to take notes while I'm talking through these and then they get out their phone and take a picture of each slide. So and then I just let them and I don't enforce anything. So it doesn't do any good because they're still not writing it down in their own words. And that's my note taking in class strategy.
Speaker 3:Interesting. Let me ask you another question why are you having to take notes?
Speaker 1:So because, like I tell them, the research that I have seen suggests that. You know, if I'm up there again, I try not to rely on strictly lectures. We do activities, we do things, we do discussions. But at certain points I do need to do a little bit of lecturing and when I'm doing that I'm saying it in my words, and all the research says that you're going to get it better if you put it in your words. So I try to get them to take notes. It's not something that I check, I don't have to turn it in, but because I think if they're writing it down what I'm saying, but they're putting it in their words instead of mine, that they're going to process it better and they're going to remember it better. But getting them to actually take the time to do that is an uphill battle.
Speaker 3:Oh, most definitely. I think where we really need to start is coming up with a clear step strategy, a strategy that students could use with confidence in any situation walking into a college class, into an English class, into a CTE class. So if they take a picture, then it just becomes a document on their phone that they could reference. There's no guarantee that they actually are comprehending what's in that picture. But at the same time, we have to be very careful that our students don't just replicate what we give to our students. Um, because when students copy, they're actually using a different part of the brain. I usually tell teachers that you could have a student that just came here brand new from another country, that has no English skills, and they could copy your slide perfectly, but it doesn't mean they comprehend it Right.
Speaker 1:That makes sense.
Speaker 3:But it just starts there. It's like we want the students to really comprehend the information. Now I would always try to push students or teachers more towards having students take a document and find their own key details and sometimes pretty much doing what you did to put all that information into that PowerPoint. Into that PowerPoint, Because when we look at the ACT, 51% of the questions is about students identifying key information. So how do we give them those opportunities, those experiences in the classroom? Now we have so much content we have to teach. We often try to just summarize it all for them and put it into a presentation and then all of a sudden we find ourselves lecturing and sometimes we find ourselves bored out of our mind because we're waiting for the last student to get everything off that slide and they're always raising their hand oh, give me another minute.
Speaker 3:We have some students that have finished it up rather quickly and they're sitting there like, oh, what can I do while I wait for that one student to finish up that?
Speaker 1:slide, that means talk to the person beside them that's also already taken a picture of it and not written anything down Exactly.
Speaker 3:We want to take note taking and turn it into a learning experience for students, Like not only are they comprehending the information, but they're processing the information. Have you ever heard about chunk the information?
Speaker 1:Can you tell us what it is?
Speaker 3:Well, when we look at the attention span of these two, we're probably looking at maybe nine to 12 minutes. But if we're able to chunk the information that moves from and how I would chunk it is to move back and forth, from comprehending taking the information from you to processing, making connections, real life situations. Sometimes we do it as teachers we try to narrate it and bring the information to life, but at the same time we own it. When we do that, it's more powerful if we take the time instead of moving to the next slide, have them really discuss with someone, giving them a thinking partner. You know, we want the students to really have an opportunity to pause. That's bringing in some of that wait time we always hear about wait time but allowing them first to take the information and then discuss the information.
Speaker 3:And it doesn't have to be long. It could take 30 seconds, all right, you know, and sometimes I would almost want the discussion to happen prior to really the note taking, like given the slide and as you give the information and say, okay, let's go ahead and discuss with someone next to you what the slide is saying why is this important and then, based on that discussion, make that your notes instead of saying copy this, because if they copy this, they take pictures of something. It goes back to what you're saying, like who owns it? I don't want to be the owner of the information. When I'm teaching, I want the students to take ownership of the information.
Speaker 1:I really like that concept making them the owners. So thank you for saying that.
Speaker 3:So when we're looking at note-taking, I really encourage and encourage with the teachers that so thank you for saying that really comprehend the vital information we're trying to give them as instructors, but we're also facilitating conversations to allow them to process the information. Once they process the information, the note-taking is always a part of a scaffold right. So we got to give them this background information, this vital information, for them to be successful in the next step. Hopefully the next step is not a test but it moves into some type of project where they're going to have to tap into that information and actually apply that information. And sometimes what we really lack doing with students is being very transparent letting them know exactly why you're taking these notes and how these looking for you know teachers, to give students the opportunity to go from the reading to the writing and to be able to become the ownership of that information. What are your thoughts? How would that work within your classes that you're teaching right now?
Speaker 1:I think that that'd be really useful. I mean anything that I can get them doing. Obviously, it's for me specifically teaching composition. They're going to be writing an essay and it is their whole goal is information. I'm giving them and rephrase it in their own words. But get what they need out of it and not just rephrasing, not just summarizing. Summarizing plus a little bit more maybe is a good way to say that. So, yes, but I can also see outside of my ELA class, any class I mean. I could see that have been helpful to me in a math class if it's not just knowing the steps but understanding how the steps work, so that when I get a higher level math problem later on, you know I can understand. Oh, this goes back to that thing I learned last semester. So I can see this being very helpful in every class, not just mine, which is always exciting for our listeners who might not be teaching English classes like me. So that seems great. Let's go back to specific things that we can do to create that note-taking strategy.
Speaker 3:One thing I would keep in mind is that, like the notes, is that we want to prepare students for their conversations. So the best way to prepare students for a good conversation is taking good notes. But at the same time, we want the students to be able to share different perspectives. My goal is never to have all my students to have exact same notes. If I'm doing a great job as a facilitator in a classroom, then every student's notes would be different, so that way they're able to bring their own perspective into the conversation, in their ideas about what they are learning.
Speaker 3:So that's one thing that I would say is a tip is that a lot of times you make your note taken open-ended and make it around the discussion of these big ideas. Of course, it allows us as teachers to interject some key ideas within those conversations, but at the same time, students to interject their ideas. I've always suggested that really having the three columns sometimes two columns two columns of very simple input, output we're going to have to engage the students in a lot of different information. So we're always inputting information, but at the same time, their output should go back to. How do we prove this theory is true? So tying your notes to an essential question or a critical focus question is essential Sometimes. Coming back to that question about how can you use your notes to answer this question keeps us really focused on the whole purpose of taking notes.
Speaker 1:Can I ask a question really quickly? You're suggesting that I, as the teachers, say this is the essential question and then that's what they're focusing questions that we could ask our students that are very broad and open.
Speaker 3:The easiest ones is like how might we prevent a pandemic from occurring? Right, there are so many different ways. We could look at healthcare. We could look at healthcare, we could look at vaccines, but at the same time we could look at how we could prevent travel, like no one getting on airplanes, and social distancing. We could look at it as you know, just isolating the outbreak, like maintaining it. So when you have a very open question, then we're going to be giving the student a lot of information, but they're constantly looking for ideas of how they would explain how we might prevent a pandemic from occurring within the United States or within the world. So the more open that question is to that standard or that concept, let that really drive the note-taking because ultimately we want the student to be able to show mastery of that standard. So if that student could answer that question with evidence of what they have learned or what they have really taken as notes within that class, then we actually see the evidence of that student's progression towards mastery.
Speaker 1:I think that that's really interesting because I noticed I wouldn't have thought of it until you just said it. But, like at the beginning of each episode, I asked Dan a question For this episode. I said, hey, do you have anybody that can help me figure out tips on how to make my students better note takers? And of course he sent me you and I do that for every episode. So, as I'm sitting here taking notes without realizing it, I am filtering it through that question.
Speaker 1:You know I'm trying to get the tips. I'm trying to pull out the tips that you're saying. So, even though I'm obviously listening to everything you say, I'm pulling out, as I'm taking my notes, questions that answered my essential question that I didn't even realize I had, which is what could I do to get students to be better note takers? That's my essential question for the day. So all my notes focus around that and it does help me make me a better note taker because I know what I'm looking for. So, even though I didn't know that's what I was doing, I feel like I'm taking your tip here and my own note-taking and I can definitely see how it'd be helpful to students.
Speaker 3:Then you know, one thing that you just remind me is that sometimes we think that note-taking is only between the teacher and the student. But what I've really encouraged and what has been powerful is note-taking between student and students. So a lot of times if I have them read an article, I want them, you know, maybe underline the critical information, the key ideas, and then I have them take that, they put it into their notes, they elaborate on it, and then I'll do like an inner outer circle, or I might. My favorite is speed dating. I just like saying speed dating because everyone looks at me crazy, but you know, I even did it like a couple of days ago with with CTE teachers.
Speaker 3:I just had one line and then I had like 13 teachers and then I had 13 teachers face those 13 teachers, but I had them take their notes and share their notes with the person across from them, and then that person across from them was taking notes on the notes that they were sharing with them, and the goal is is just to go deeper into that content that we're presenting now.
Speaker 3:And then after a minute I have one of the lines, rotate one down and then they share again and then rotate one, so, like five minutes, not only are they building confidence in the notes that they took, but they're also validating and getting the feedback and really I would say refining those ideas, that output when I was talking about the input output and even in the strategy that I shared with you, that it really starts with those key ideas, those key quotes that import information and a lot of times, whatever goes into that column is then how do we make those connections, how do we, you know, really relate it?
Speaker 3:But then helping the student realize how do we apply it, like how am I going to take these notes and why are these notes going to help me be successful in what I'm doing tomorrow or the following days? So giving the students the opportunity to really refine those ideas through that speed editing activity, or sometimes I'll call it the gauntlet, or you could do as an inner outer circle, depending on the room you have in the class. Usually I only have room for like two lines, but if we go outside I'm definitely doing two circles and just having fun with it. But it really allows the students to take ownership.
Speaker 1:I really like that. I tried something probably my first semester ever teaching that another teacher had suggested to me on note taking and I feel like yours is a better version of what I tried to do, which is that they had me do. They suggested I do something called class note taker. Class one student was assigned and they all got assigned at least once over the semester to be the note taker for the day and they had to take notebook notes for our joint notebook. And then they started the next class.
Speaker 1:They did a five minute summary to remind everybody what we talked about the last class and there were some things that worked really well with that that I really liked, but there were a couple of things that didn't, which is that people ended up relying on the note taker's note instead of their own and I wanted them taking their own and putting it in their own words, and I think yours is an updated version of that in that they're still taking their own notes, but they're still hearing from the other students and getting their perspective, which was the purpose of the class note taker was to hear not just my words but another student that thought like them or closer to them, at least hear in their words, and so I think that your idea here is really really helpful for that, because it does have kind of the best of both worlds, so I really like that idea.
Speaker 3:Well, if we think of the brain research right and the repetition, so if a student says it seven to nine times, it starts moving towards that long-term memory, like they're going to be able to remember a conversation, like I'll always remember this conversation with you, To be able to have those experiences where they're sharing with someone else. It's easy for them to remember the conversation they had, like in a inner outer circle or a speed dating, then remembering what they wrote on a piece of paper. So when it comes time for the test, it's like we're able to recall something we could see, an experience, whereas just recalling words from a page in a book that we read it's a lot more difficult. So it actually helps the retainability by being able to share their notes with multiple people, because then they have multiple experiences yes, I really like that.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great idea. All right, can we go back to you said one thing that you like is the three column format, or two column. Can you talk a little bit more about what that is and how teachers can use that in their class?
Speaker 3:Well, being an advocate of active reading at all times. So any time a student is engaging in learning, there should be some type of note taking going on. If they're watching a video, if they're pulling information from a PowerPoint, if they're reading a chapter in a book, if they're reading infographic, if they're looking at a piece of artwork, if they're looking at math problem, we want it to make it active. So the three columns strategy allows any type of, I would say, active reading to occur. So it's just pretty simple Whatever you're analyzing, you're looking at, whatever you're reading, wherever you pull the information, that first column, in that graphic organizer, would be really your key ideas in your keynotes, your summary of what you're learning.
Speaker 3:Sometimes teachers want to like kind of give the students all that information and maybe leave some blanks. We want students to be able to take ownership of it, so they're allowed to pick what they feel is important, but at the same same time, they're working. That summarizing skill, which is essential, um, and then from there in that next column, is really like the processing. How do you process that information? What is your reflection? So, if you're using it with, like, let's say, inner outer circle or speed dating, that second column is where, as they are sharing their ideas and talking, they're writing more reflection into that column but at the same time, kind of a closing ticket. You know, out the door ticket is now.
Speaker 3:I want the students to prepare themselves for how they might use this in the bigger assignments. So using that last column to really think about what is the real world application of this information? How does this information apply to what I have on my agenda for tomorrow or what the assignment that we're going to finish on Friday is going to be? So it becomes almost like a journal. So the next day you would flip it, they would have the same three columns. They could be watching a video taking notes, conversation and then reflection at the end of the class. So it's a way to ensure that the students are really comprehending, processing and seeing the application of the notes that they're taking for that day.
Speaker 1:All right, okay. Well, that sounds great, so I'm going to show. Since it's a note-taking, I'll show you got three columns.
Speaker 1:No, I don't have three columns. I can't because of the background. I'll put it in front of my face. There we go. See, I took note no three columns. I need to be better about that. But I took note and I will share my notes on social media, since this is about note taking. I normally don't do that, but I do want to kind of make sure that I used some of your note taking tips to actually take some good notes here and figure out exactly what it is you wanted us to get out of this. Well, can you can?
Speaker 3:you read something from your notes. Just give me something that you have in your notes.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to sum up what we just talked about and remind everybody what we just said, and I'm going to rely on my great note-taking skills here in order to do that. So we first talked about the need to create a strategy. Don't just say take notes. Give them a strategy and a way to take those notes. We talked about chunking and breaking a lesson down into little sections, because their attention span is not going to be longer than like nine to 12 minutes.
Speaker 1:Then focus on an essential question and make sure your note taking is open-ended, so essential question that can guide their notes as they're taking it. Try things like the three column format, which is to have the key concepts that's what they need to find first, but then a reflection that lets them add their own ideas and show why it matters, and then putting in that real world application. And then try activities that make the note taking more active, like speed dating, speed note taking in class, where they can share their notes with each other and get new notes from what they other students said, and they can go and get it from a bunch of people and they're also, at that point, repeating what they've heard and it's lodging in their brains. So how was my summary of what you talked about?
Speaker 3:It's a really good summary, but let's go a little bit farther. Can you take one of those key points that you just shared and give me a reflection or a connection? Why is that important?
Speaker 1:Okay, so I guess I'll pick make note-taking. Open-ended is something I wrote in my notes. So just like anything open-ended questions in class, open-ended notes in class. You have more time for reflection if it's open-ended and it's not just a yes or no. If you ask a yes or no question, they're going to write yes on their paper and that's going to be their notes for the day and they're not going to get anything of it. But if I can have them focused on an open-ended question that they're going to be answering throughout class, then they will actually not only do better at looking for key concepts around that topic, but they'll also have more room for that reflection piece in the real world application because they're actually able to think about it instead of just writing the fact down.
Speaker 3:Excellent reflection. Now let's go into that third column. I really would like to see what's the real world application. Let's say that you just got a job with NASA and you got brand new astronauts. They're coming to you. How would that benefit them in learning how to prepare to go to outer space?
Speaker 1:Okay, I feel like if astronauts this is tough Anything science related, I feel like if an astronaut was taking notes about what was happening in outer space, they're going to need to know more. Is that what you mean? Or you mean like, how are my notes going to help them? Oh, you're the trainer, you're training the astronauts to get ready.
Speaker 1:I'm training them and they're taking notes. How would me getting them to focus on open-ended questions help them? I have no interest in going to outer space. I have no interest in going to outer space. It sounds very scary, but I feel like if for some reason, I had to, if they're forcing me to go to the you know live on Mars or something, I would want to focus on open-ended questions because I don't want to just know you know, what helmet do I need and what's the oxygen level that I need, or whatever.
Speaker 1:I want to know what's it like to be on Mars Like? What do I need to know? What do I need to do? What am I going to feel? What am I going to be thinking? What's going to be the anxieties that I have as somebody who's scared of space and heights flying up into outer space? I want to know those things for myself. So I don't want just fact-based information. I mean, I do want some fact-based information in that situation, obviously, but I don't want just fact-based. I want to know what the real experience is like.
Speaker 3:And I think our students feel the same way when they come to our classroom. Like everything you just said, it doesn't matter the content, we want to know more about it. I think sometimes we limit by just giving them the facts. By opening it up, we're allowing curiosity, we're allowing critical thinking, we're allowing problem solving, and so I think your reflection and your applications were spot on. Excellent job.
Speaker 1:You could have said smart. Is that what you're going to say? I would have been sad, brilliant, magnificent. Thank you, thank you, all right. Well, you heard that bell. That means we are almost out of time. Do you have some homework for us to do?
Speaker 3:Well, definitely, my homework is with your next class. Why not try out the three columns and really focus more on the processing and the application than the note-taking? But the note-taking is going to get them to process the information and apply the information. But don't just make it just all about note-taking. Make it more about the processing and the application.
Speaker 1:All right, I really like that and I know that you sent me a copy of the three-column format, a handout that they can use, so I will put that in the show notes so that you can see what the three-column note-taking format looks like and you can practice it in your next classes by doing today's homework and then tell us how it goes on social media. So thank you for being here today, don. I think this has been great.
Speaker 3:I hope you enjoyed it too. I definitely did.
Speaker 1:All right, well good, we hope to have you back one day and have a great rest of your day. Thank you, bye, bye.
Speaker 2:All right, ashley. What did you hear there that really stood out to you?
Speaker 1:I really like the games that he suggested, like the speed dating. I think of note-taking as something you sit there and do at your desk and I like the idea of making it an activity just like any other activity, where they practice the note-taking and they report it to other people in a fun way. So that, to me, was a really good tip that I'd like to try.
Speaker 2:The idea of using your notes. How are you going to use your notes, taking them off the paper and giving them practice with? That is so important, and that's something that he was talking about. So I'm thinking about what Don did from the view of an instructional coach. If I'm an instructional coach and I want to help teachers with taking notes, what are some things that I heard him do? And the first thing he asked was he tried to zero in on your purpose. He said why are you having them take notes? And I thought that was a great question because it made you reflect on something that maybe you hadn't even thought about deeply. Right, you just sometimes we just have kids take notes because it's time to take notes.
Speaker 1:That what is the goal? You're supposed to take notes, so take notes. That's the purpose. It's one of those things like when you ask your parents why is that the rule? Because I said so.
Speaker 2:Why is this important? What does this have to do with our goal for this class? And so that other thing that I heard him do was talk about transference. So, as an instructional coach, you often work not just with one department. You often have to work with English teachers, math teachers one department. You often have to work with English teachers, math teachers and one of the keys of education, I think, is teaching kids skills that they can transfer from class to class, and he was probing you and asking you about how this skill could be used in different classes and how it could be applied across the curriculum. And that's just a probing question and a focus that I think, as a coach, it's important to keep in our minds what skills are we teaching kids that can be applied in multiple classes? That are learning skills?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's a really good point and it is something that I'm always interested in this transference, not just from class to class, but from grade to grade, from the class to work, anything like that. So any skill that you can use across everything you do is really great.
Speaker 2:So another step coaching step he took that I think is important is helping you to think about how the notes connect to your critical focus question, Because he was trying to keep you focused on the purpose of taking notes right. So that's the whole thing about what I said. Why are you taking notes right? So that's the whole thing about what I said. Why are you taking notes? Keeping it focused, keeping our conversations focused on the purpose of what it is you're trying to accomplish and you know he was talking to you about essential questions and having a big essential question and then taking notes to answer those questions. And I thought that was important coaching move because it connected the strategy to the content you're trying to help students learn.
Speaker 1:Right, that's a good point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then the one last thing I wanted to mention, which is, if you notice, he kept referring to some brain research. At one point he talked about repetition and how repetition helps you learn, and at another point he talks about chunking and how you know you can only pay attention to something for so long. The brain can only do that. I believe and Don does too that as coaches, we need to really study how the brain learns, how the brain processes information and stores information for a long time so that you can retrieve it. And what I hear in that conversation is that Dawn has studied not just literacy or note-taking, but how the brain processes information. And my recommendation for any instructional coach is to find literature and make yourself a learning expert, not just a teaching expert. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:not just a teaching expert. Does that make sense? Yes, and I do think that that matters. Knowing the way people think and the way they learn helps you as a teacher, no matter what your subject is, and also I can see helping any instructional coach. Help a teacher. So I think, that's a really great point.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we're content experts, like I'm an expert in history or in literature, but I need to be an expert in how the brain learns to read Right and how the brain learns math best. That's what I need to truly master as a instructional coach and be able to share that with others. So those are my coaching points from Dawn's conversation.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, I think those are really great points. I think they'll be very useful. So thank you for joining me again today to help us find the coaching tips from our lesson, and have a great rest of your day. I'm looking forward to talking to you next week.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. See you then.
Speaker 1:Okay, bye.