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Class-Act Coaching: A Podcast for Teachers and Instructional Coaches
Join us each week as a different SREB instructional coach walks our host through different teaching concerns in the world of K12. Teachers will gain valuable teaching insights and instructional coaches will see a model coaching session.
Class-Act Coaching: A Podcast for Teachers and Instructional Coaches
Building Relationships: The Heart of a Thriving Classroom
Rodriquez "Rod" Leonard, a coach with extensive experience in K-12 education, shares valuable insights on building a positive and productive classroom culture.
He emphasizes the importance of getting to know students as individuals, using those insights to inform instruction, and fostering student achievement.
He encourages teachers to try one of his tips, starting with making a genuine effort to connect with their students. This can be accomplished through:
- Conversation: Engaging in meaningful dialogue.
- Inquiry: Asking questions to understand student perspectives and interests.
- Application: Using this knowledge to shape classroom activities and lessons.
Rod's episode provides practical, actionable advice for teachers looking to cultivate a supportive and successful learning environment.
The Southern Regional Education Board is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization that works with states and schools to improve education at every level, from early childhood through doctoral education and the workforce.
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Welcome back. I'm Ashley Shaw and it's the week after Thanksgiving. We hope you all enjoyed your meals and got to see lots of family this week. I'm here with my co-host, dan Rock. Hi, dan.
Speaker 2:Hey Ashley, how are you doing today?
Speaker 1:I am great. Thanksgiving was wonderful. How was yours? Oh, it was delightful.
Speaker 2:It was delightful, my favorite holiday by far.
Speaker 1:Oh good, it was delightful.
Speaker 2:It was delightful. My favorite holiday by far, oh good, definitely it's just the best day. You get family, food and football the three best things. Okay, I mean what else can you ask for?
Speaker 1:I get cooking and cooking and cooking and that's what I do, all of Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2:Well, that's too bad. I don't do that, it's fine, I love to cook bad.
Speaker 1:I don't do that. It's fine. I love to cook, so I'm happy with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great day, so what do you want to talk about today?
Speaker 1:Okay, the week before Thanksgiving, shelly Gibson came on and talked about how to encourage your students so that we had this nice little lead-in to Thanksgiving, just thinking about how grateful we are for our students, and part of that was the idea that we should kind of work to connect with our students. So I thought it might be nice to follow up Thanksgiving with a little bit more about connecting with our students. Do you have somebody that can help me with that?
Speaker 2:our students. Do you have somebody that can help me with that? I do. Rob Leonard is an instructional coach from Alabama and, as a teacher and as a coach, he understands how to build culture amongst his students and build a culture of honesty and togetherness that actually translates to better learning, and I really think he has a lot that he can help you with in terms of building a culture of learning and understanding into your classroom. So let's bring in Rod, I think he'll really help.
Speaker 1:All right, well, I'm looking forward to meeting with him and I'll talk to you after the episode. See you there, hi, I'm looking forward to meeting with him and I'll talk to you after the episode.
Speaker 3:See you there. Hi, ron, how are you? I am well. Ashley, how are you?
Speaker 1:I am pretty good. I am really thankful you're here today. Thanksgiving was last week. I'm in a thankful mood. I'm very thankful for you, so thank you for coming on and joining us today.
Speaker 3:You're welcome.
Speaker 1:All right, before we get started, would you tell us a little bit about who you are?
Speaker 3:Most certainly I am again. You said my name is. I'm Rodriguez Leonard. I go by Rod a lot of times.
Speaker 3:I am from a little small town in Alabama called Alexander City. It is one of the most wonderful places on earth and you are just in a good place if you meet anyone from there. However, I live in Birmingham, alabama, where I taught 16 years in the Birmingham City School System. I taught grades six through nine. I taught grades six through nine. I taught middle school for 14 of those years and high school for two of those years and absolutely loved every moment of it.
Speaker 3:I started in the middle of the year when I first started and I probably need to go back and reteach to those students. However, they can charge it to my head and not my heart, because I was doing what I thought was best at the time, but through professional growth and learning, I turned out to be a pretty okay educator. So I taught English and then I absolutely loved it until I came to SREB three years ago and it has been life-changing. So it's moments like this that add to my growth, although I'm sharing knowledge, but I get to learn from others as well. So that's a little about me educationally.
Speaker 1:Well, I am also from Alabama, so it's always nice to have a fellow Alabamian on the episode, and so welcome.
Speaker 1:And a couple of weeks ago we did an episode where we talked about encouraging students and it was very encouraging for everybody that listened. I'm sure it was very encouraging for me at least. And one thing that I got out of there is that I would like to be better at connecting with my students. I want to make connections with them, so I asked Dan to find me somebody to help with that. Are you up for the challenge?
Speaker 3:I am up for the challenge.
Speaker 1:All right? Well, let's get started then. Teach me about connecting with my students.
Speaker 3:Well, I think it's important Once I learn that the power of instruction is harnessed and it is the foundation in a classroom, and that lends itself to building relationships, positive relationships with students, positive relationships with students. Dr James Comer said that no significant learning can occur without a significant relationship. So there is an importance there. I know we teach standards and we we harpo growth and mastery, but none of that, none of those things occur without a significant relationship with students. And so it was my experience that the better I knew or the more I knew about my students, the better relationships we had and the more successful they were in my class. And that was just it. And on those days when it was hard meaning the work was rigorous and even if they were having a challenge that was outside of my classroom the relationship that I fostered with them helped them press through, whatever they were going through. So a positive relationship with students, it makes Mary a heart, so that's very key With your issue. I have some tips that I used. Would you like to hear them?
Speaker 1:I would love to hear them. I'm very excited to hear them.
Speaker 3:Well, the first tip is, as teachers, we have to remember that, no matter what grade level we taught or teach I taught middle school for the longest and I taught seventh grade, so I didn't revert to being a seventh grader, but I had to remember that there were a lot of things that I went through in seventh grade developmentally, socially, et cetera that shaped me as a seventh grader. So when I taught seventh grade, I like to say they were crazy and I was crazy, but we made it work. Well, the first thing I did was I listened to my students, and when I say I listened to them, we have a lot of discussion. It could have been about something we were learning. I always tried to make sure my hook was. I mean, it went out of this world, but it was enough to get them thinking about the importance of learning, and so that's one way I built relationships by listening to them, being empathetic as well. They make a lot of mistakes. So my room was a safe place and it was safe to make mistakes, but I had to remember that I too sat in a seventh grade class at some point and I made errors, and some of it was just age appropriate, inappropriate behavior in a sense, and so I didn't. I made sure that if I even if I was going to have to correct a student, I listened first. So that was the crux of building relationships with the students and that was just that building that trust piece, in building that active listening and empathy.
Speaker 3:I had a get to know you sheet. It had their birthday, it had their favorite candy, it had any sports, that they were involved in any extracurricular activities. I also had what does your name mean on there, because that's important. I made sure I learned how to say their names or pronounce them correctly. That helped me to build relationships. We spent time doing design challenges. We used to do them in faculty meetings and so I would do them with my students and I could. Again, I didn't have any. I had some historical data as it related to how they performed on the state assessment the previous year, but they too. I had not really looked at that, but I learned a lot about how they work with each other from the design challenges. So we would do the marshmallow challenge with the spaghetti noodles and I would put them in groups and usually what's that?
Speaker 1:I know what that is. What's the marshmallow?
Speaker 3:So the marshmallow challenge is where you give them spaghetti sticks, a marshmallow like the big one, you give them a piece of tape to the length that you want it to be and a string, and you give them directions on this time they have to make the tallest standing structure that will hold the marshmallow. And so they. And again, they're only given so many spaghetti sticks. Sometimes I gave them three, sometimes I gave them seven, it just depends. And but I was able to learn a lot from them. Day two, just by watching how they interact in groups with people one they may have known and not. And then two, how do they handle? I could see my leaders, I could tell the ones who took charge, I could tell the ones who kind of laid back, I could tell the ones who gave up easily because no one was listening, that type of thing. And so after about easily because no one was listening, that type of thing, and so after about 10 minutes I would stop them and then I would go around with the ruler.
Speaker 3:Many times those towers did not stand. They could not be taped to the surface, so that was always a challenge. They wanted to tape. No, you cannot tape the tower. It has to be freestanding, and so they love that design, those type of design challenges. And again, anything we did in faculty meetings for team building or building capacity, or One day we were in a meeting and the principal told us to take out our falls, go to a picture that brings you joy and you had to turn to your neighbor and tell why it brought you joy.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, the room just changed because people were pulling out pictures of their spouses, significant others, their children, all those grandchildren. Really, he had to kind of stop it because it was people like to talk about, especially grandparents, their grandchildren. So I did it with my students Take out your phones oh, they love that because we always talk about put them up. So they actually were and pulled up pictures that meant something. It wasn't. They took a pair of a picture of a pair of tennis shoes or outfit or something. They pulled up pictures of family or pictures of a trip they went on, or when they got a trophy last year and whatever, and so those things helped me to just day one be on relationships that we would do. What brings you joy a lot of times just at the beginning of class as a way to kind of settle the day or kind of move before we move into academics. Hey, this is what's going on, what brings us joy, especially when it's something going on that they may be despondent about. Same thing can be done with the board we had, like students were very active outside of school. So if they brought me a picture or told me their basketball team won a championship or they were on a soccer team or they had a recital, I would ask them to give me a picture which their parents had and I would put it up on a board. Those type of things Level up. That was a strategy that we used where we just kind of checked the levels. That was a strategy that we used where we just kind of check the levels.
Speaker 3:Some of the schools I taught in whatever happened on the weekend had a residual in the classroom and so that piece. We couldn't start with standard eight in the ELA on Monday when Jason's brother was tragically shot while walking home and people in the community know that, so knew that. So we had to check our levels. We had to, and it wasn't always tragic, it could have been oh, we're just tired. I worked my students, I worked them. So we just kind of leveled up sometime just to check when you get ready. When I was growing up, a little boy on a trip or going somewhere 30 miles or more from home, the oil was checked before we left. And so that piece, that just leveling up.
Speaker 1:And an air one team.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah. So we have to level up to do that. Then the classroom meeting really was my favorite, and there's two. They will say, mr Leonard, we got to have a classroom meeting and I'm like, why? Oh, that is that test you gave us yesterday and I will get tickled and we would have a meeting about it. So those type of strategies help to build relationships and that's from.
Speaker 3:If you've never taught children to, you, are 30 years in and have lost your wind and are still here after 30 years teaching. Those things will truly help make a difference in building relationships. We're not saying that you children have to like you as it relates to friends, but what they understand is they respect you. So building these relationships with students helps you strengthen and build, Because sometimes some students, to be honest, leave home. Nobody said good morning to them, no one has said anything positive to them. Everything has been. You need to do this. And then they get here and get out of school and get to the right side. Take that call no. That's not how you build relationships.
Speaker 3:Students people they respect, they will do anything. Students people they respect. They will do anything, from the toughest football player to the most unassuming student who you may overlook, they will rise to the occasion no matter their academic level. I know this, that's something I stand on. We get IEPs and we look over them and we follow those accommodations and modifications. But a lot of times if you have a good relationship with students, all together, those, no matter the learning level they want to rise. They may be in the seventh grade and they're on a fifth grade level or third grade level, but they're going to give you some growth by May because of the relationships that you have vested in to impact instruction.
Speaker 3:Standing on that, I'll say that on top of the highest mountain, that is very key and gives dividends in the classroom, no matter the level. If you have a positive relationship with students, they rise to the occasion every time because that respect is there and you don't have to spend a lot of time trying to. I didn't have to become a rapper to trip them, so those type of things help me to build relationships with them from day one and from the onset and I kind of caveated it with the around the listening piece and when I worked with teachers that was the same thing. You have to listen and build a relationships.
Speaker 3:Everybody at some point has had a relationship, whether it was a love interest or friendship, but the way, and even kinship, you still have to get to know people, and so the way we do that is by talking and listening, and so that's very, very again to impacting instruction from a, I hate to say, non-academic, but from a place where students will really see, oh, my teacher cares, or and is real in the sense that, oh, miss Ashley knows that I enjoy doing projects, so every time she gives an assessment, they have the option to do a project versus taking a test, and so the standards are still mastered. But you know little, johnny is more prone to do the assessment because he has an option.
Speaker 1:I love that. All right, so we talked about doing the design challenges. Do you have anything else that we can try to connect with our students?
Speaker 3:The key is for students to master. Whatever it is you're teaching. We're not trying to get them to be our friends. When I talk about building relationships, that's not when I talk about building relationships. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is you are getting children to work to their highest peak or potential. We did a book study at one of my schools on a post-tidal non-relationship building strategies. Well, teach up was the title of the book. Diving, also named the Mola Mason, and she deals a lot of strategies but she gives nine that anybody can just pick up.
Speaker 3:And one that I really loved to use and a lot of districts are going to this now when it comes to discipline was restorative circles, and so restorative circles was where we had a conversation and that in order to talk you have to listen. So, going back to that piece about listening, and so some things I addressed as a class or behavior, and then there were things that I addressed individually, because the class shouldn't have to suffer because of one person's behavior, and so those restorative circles allowed us to kind of reason with empathy and see what was the problem. So let's say we were going, we were having problems in groups, in transitioning. Why are you all talking so much? So, and that's simple. But in seventh grade that is a big deal, and so we talked about that, instead of me taking away PE for everybody or having silent lunch. We talked about it and we developed a plan that relates to restorative circles. Now, the discipline piece is that a lot of districts are going to is that it's not punitive, in that, instead of you being suspended for three days or going to in-school detention, you may go talk to the counselor? You may have a plan where now there are some things that require the punitive issue. So I'm not saying they fault and we said, oh, we just want to talk about why you fought. Would that take place? However, there were some consequences for their behavior, and so those restorative circles or the restorative discipline worked.
Speaker 3:But you had, like I had a discipline plan and in that plan like for instance, in one of my schools, we were the halls and so I had and this was post-it, so they knew at all times my classroom management system. So the first piece of it was the positive. What happens when hogs soar? And I had, I thought things? Verbal phrase was always hustling gift cards, candy from my family, from my Sunday school class from just wherever, and so I had a treasure chest so they could go to it. Those students who like to read could go to the library. It might be some time on your phone, et cetera, but that was posted. But also posted next to it was what happens when students do not, when hogs do not soar, and so I had a plan.
Speaker 3:First thing was again like I had a verbal praise, I had a verbal warning, and so, ashley, I need you to stop talking, please. Thank you. Now she kept talking. The next thing was they signed the book. I had a simple notebook. They simply just wrote down their name, the date and what's the infraction. Now there were those students who liked to be cute and they would put down. I don't know why Mr Leonard had me sign this book. He's crazy or whatever. So that was fine.
Speaker 3:But when it came down to parent conferences and my documentation, I took that in. My favorite is I had a student who signed the book and he said my mama told me I didn't have to do X, y, z. Well, when she had a conference that I couldn't wait and it was in Israel I couldn't wait to start to bring that up and show her that. And so after that well it turns out they got a lot of warnings, but after that they had a restorative meeting with me.
Speaker 3:We didn't get any better. They were sent to the counselor. After the counselor they were then rigged up and if we got to a write-up I sent all of my documentation students to the office and they came right back. So when I sent a child they knew this is this was serious. But in turn I didn't have a lot of issues and it still helped to foster relationships because students want structure and they help me with structure. Students want structure and they help me with structure. And so I've had students come back to me and say Mr Leonard, I'm sorry that you had to write me up, because they knew that I had gone through all of those steps and so that built relationships as well. And again they, like our parents, they love us. And I would say to them if nobody ever corrects you or gets on to you, I would check my love connection because it's probably a little shaky or faulty. People don't get on to you.
Speaker 1:The bell you just heard means we are almost out of time, so do you have some homework for us today?
Speaker 3:So I do have some homework. We as teachers love to give homework. It's just simple. Just try one of the tips Start by getting to know your students. And how do you do that? By one talking to them, asking questions and use that in the classroom. Say, just get to know them. And then not only when you get to know them put it into action by using that knowledge to build your classroom and foster instruction. That will foster student achievement.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, thank you for that. Everybody out there. If you tried this, tell us how it went on social media. And Rod, thank you so much for being here today. It's been a pleasure hearing your tips.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you so much, Ashley. I hope that you have a great day and, as we prepare for the holiday season, that it is full of Christmas cheer for you and your family.
Speaker 1:Thank you, you too, bye, bye.
Speaker 2:All right, ashley, so that was very interesting. What were some of your big takeaways? What really resonated with you from that episode?
Speaker 1:Well, I think a big thing that resonated with me is that to connect with students, you have to actually make the time, which is obvious, but also something that you forget. So I think it was really good to hear that about. It's not just like, like, oh, I'm going to walk into the classroom and my students are going to connect with me. It's making the effort to learn about them and their interest and what they do, and making a point of showing them that I know about that it's almost like he built that into his structures right.
Speaker 2:He plans for how he's going to build relationships and he creates lessons and activities specifically for that purpose it's not an afterthought.
Speaker 1:It's a priority yes, I thought that was really good information and something that isn't something that I think about all the time thinking about it from a coaching perspective.
Speaker 2:it is interesting because I felt like a lot of the ideas he got he got from coaching leader. Maybe it wasn't an instructional coach, but it was the leadership acting as a coach, because they were bringing the teachers together to the marshmallow challenge right or the marshmallow tower, and he was bringing the teachers together and asking them what's good and so the leadership of that. He was taking his cues from how to coach the students, from how the leadership was sort of coaching Hare. He was following their example.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought he was showing he was using the leadership skills that he was watching his leaders do and using them to be the leader in the classroom.
Speaker 2:Right, right, and that's a lesson, I think, in and of itself for anybody who's in a leadership position, which is you set the example for what you want teachers to do in your classroom, in their classrooms. By how you treat the teachers and you listen to them and you give them voice and you provide them opportunities to connect with each other during your meetings or your collaboration time, then they will see that and they will follow your example. It's less what you say to them and it's more what you do.
Speaker 1:I think what I hear you saying right now is that it's important. Just like it's important for teachers to connect with their students, it's important for leaders to connect with their Teachers. It's important for coaches to connect with the teachers. Connections help everybody.
Speaker 2:And it's more than feeding them right. It's more than notes in their box, right your and your faculty meeting, your plc meetings, your one-on-one coaching conversations, with the mindset of we are all together in this. We are all people with emotions and pride and dignity and it's important to treat each other like that and it's important to give them opportunities to learn how to work together. You can't be, you can't just because you throw five adults in a team and call it a plc, you can't expect them to know how to collaborate effectively. Just like in Rod's case. He didn't expect his students to know how to collaborate, so he used instructional methods and activities to teach them how and to pull out the best sort of ways to work together and then to teach that explicitly. And a coach or a leader can find those opportunities to do that for the teachers, so they know how to work together. And that's an important life skill that we assume teachers come with and most of them do, but it's still something that that people can grow in right. I'll throw something else out there that I noticed is you notice he talked about at the end restorative practices, right restorative teams, and this is something that's taken a hold in a lot of schools where, rather than just focusing on punishing it, we focus on okay, you did, you know you beat up Johnny. Johnny, you know what does? What does Billy have to do to restore the your faith in him or restore your dignity? Well, how can he make this right? And having that conversation, and that's, you know, restore your dignity, how can he make this right? And having that conversation, and that's a very specific practice that's happening in schools.
Speaker 2:It's interesting the idea of well, can this apply to adults?
Speaker 2:And maybe not restorative practice like in the classroom. But the fact is that there's dysfunctional teams and there's schools out there where you have people who are not good team players and they don't want to. They don't want to collect the data, they don't want to share the data, they just want to complain about bill beating up Johnny. And how am I supposed to teach the kids when they're doing that? And the rest of the team is trying to analyze the data and focus on you know, the big picture of learning restorative circle practice to your teams and thinking about how can I teach them norms and how to communicate respectfully and safely. And addressing a teacher, as Rod said, who doesn't soar, what do you do when you have a teacher in your group who's sort of not just not soaring but bringing everybody else down. And I think that is, as a coach, something we are tentative in dealing with because it's human, it's adult feelings and we kind of come to the you know, assuming everyone knows how to treat each other right.
Speaker 1:But that's not always the case. Well, one thing also to add kind of to what you said is you talked about when one teacher's not soaring, but one thing that Rod said in his lesson was about when the whole class is having an issue. For example, he used seventh graders talking too much in class and, instead of holding them all from recess or something, having them sit around in a circle and be like what's going on? Why? Why are you guys talking? And I feel like you mentioned, when a group of teachers is struggling with some issue, the school's having an issue, and there might be something there too that you can talk, you know, with all the teachers like what's going on? What do we think's happening? You know, what do we think we can do to fix it?
Speaker 2:one of the primary and most difficult skills of a coach is courageous conversations, or fierce conversations, and you know, sc Scott wrote a book called Fierce Conversations and she talks about getting down to the mineral rights right, which is like getting down deep into what is the core problem here, and that's not easy to do because you have to know how to be respectful and how to honor people's feelings and perspectives but also help people see the different perspectives of other folks in the team and, again, setting norms and expectations for ourselves and holding ourselves to high standards, as we do the kids. So that's something that I hear Rob doing with the students. That he's obviously learned and I know he brings to his coaching too, and I'd love to hear how he does that.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for these tips to our coaches out there. I think it's been really useful. Hopefully they feel that way too, and thank you for coming and being here, as always.
Speaker 2:It is my pleasure. I can't wait to see you again next week.
Speaker 1:Next week will be a special episode, another special episode where Dan and I will sit down and wrap up all the things that we learned this semester from our coaches.
Speaker 2:I don't know how we'll have time for that. There's been so much.
Speaker 1:I know. All right, we'll see you next week.
Speaker 2:All right, see you there, bye.