The Making Schools Work Podcast

How Westside High Empowered Teachers to Lead Professional Learning

• SREB • Season 2 • Episode 10

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At Westside High School in Anderson, South Carolina, teachers aren’t just attending professional development — they’re designing it.

In this episode of the Making Schools Work podcast, SREB’s Daniel Rock and Donn Kirkwood talk with Principal Kory Roberts and MTSS Specialist Taria McIntosh about how the school’s Visible Learning Leadership Team transformed Westside’s approach to growth and instruction.

Through book studies, teacher-led PD and a collaborative process to define the school’s core beliefs, Westside created a culture where educators learn from one another, model strategies and build trust across the building.

Listen to hear how they:

  • Built a foundation of teacher leadership and confidence
  • Created time and space for real collaboration — with admin support and substitute coverage
  • Modeled adult learning and professional respect
  • Developed a shared set of core beliefs and the “Westside Six” strategies to guide teaching
  • Celebrated growth and built a schoolwide culture of trust

Westside’s story shows what happens when teachers lead — and how a school’s belief in continuous learning can transform instruction and culture.

The Southern Regional Education Board is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization that works with states and schools to improve education at every level, from early childhood through doctoral education and the workforce.


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Daniel Rock:

what are your big takeaways from the experience of having teachers be the ones who decide what the PD is gonna be, what the learning is, and the , big core beliefs

Kory:

It built, the confidence in our teachers to basically sustain our quality instruction. And I, think for not just our young teachers, our teachers new to, the profession, it really helped all of our teachers kind of on this journey

Taria:

I think it extended also that whole concept of lifelong learning and that whole adult learning piece. I think the teachers learned so much from each other through this process and as a result they grew and their growth stimulated student growth. And so that was very exciting.

Daniel Rock:

welcome back to the Making Schools Work podcast. I'm Daniel Rock and I'm joined today by Senior Leadership Coach Donn Kirkwood. Hey, Donn , how are you?

Donn Kirkwood:

Hey, good afternoon.

Daniel Rock:

So Donn , today we are gonna talk with a pacesetter school called West Side High School. What's different about this school and their PD design from other schools is that an internal team of teachers comes together, does a book study, and then throughout the year they plan a PD together and how those strategies look what they are, and then they work with their PLCs to deliver that information. And then this team helped identify core beliefs the school, and they identified six common strategies that they call the west side six. Is that accurate? you've worked with this school for several years now. me a little bit about the work you've been doing with them and what makes them such a pacesetter.

Donn Kirkwood:

Yeah, that's most definitely accurate. The, the first year we really wanted to build that leadership within this team. So whatever the training that we did with developing those leaders, we gave them an opportunity to actually put it into practice the following month. So they were able to take a lot of what we were doing in the book studies to have them actually start leading those conversations around visible learning. And then of course, be able to set up some model classrooms where teachers can by and see it. They also went out to classrooms, visited to give those teachers some feedback. But yeah, that first year was like we were trying to get those teachers the opportunity to really become. Confident in becoming that key leader within the school with their peers. So looking at multiple opportunities, not just or co-leading professional development, but really planning around what can we do to really improve the success of the students within the school.

Daniel Rock:

Well, I wanna bring in the principal of West Side High School, Kory Roberts and the MTSS specialist Taria McIntosh. And these are the two principal people who helped lead and the conditions for this to be successful. Welcome, Kory and Taria. How are you?

Taria:

Hi.

Daniel Rock:

Tell us your background and your experiences in education leading to being the principal of West Side High School.

Kory:

great. Okay, sure. I've been a principal for a little bit over 20 years, and I've had the privilege of working at all three levels, elementary, middle, and high school. So I was very versed at professional development of what it looks like at all levels. It's a little different at the high school level, I would say, because sometimes high school teachers are experts in their areas and don't always understand how professional development really helps them grow. So I was really pleased with Donn and Taria and how they brought the high school teachers together across contents to make sure we were improving instruction.

Daniel Rock:

Taria, tell us a bit about your background.

Taria:

Like Mr. Roberts, I also have worked at all three levels and I have done a little bit of everything. I've been also a building level principal, assistant principal, instructional specialist, and literacy coach. Most of my experience is instructional leadership. And so what I'm doing right now with teacher leadership and working with teachers is my passion.

Daniel Rock:

When you're in education and you're a teacher, it can sometimes feel as if I'm gonna be a teacher forever and I love teaching and there's other opportunities that I want. Right. I mean, I, I moved from being a teacher to an instructional coach and that was one of the best changes I ever made. I love teaching, but I also really enjoy working with adults. And

Taria:

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Rock:

happened here you help people think about their role as a teacher, as somebody who's not just teaching kids but teaching their colleagues. Right. And, and, and that's part of the experience of being a teacher is like exploring with your colleagues what works and what happens in the classroom. I bet you that was exciting for a lot of people to see.

Kory:

Yes, it really was. Anytime you can get teachers talking about the work and them being excited about it because I don't know in the natural school day how many opportunities our teachers get to just talk school and talk strategy and not get caught up in going to duty and grading papers. But just trying to find that structured time where they could actually relax and just talk school.

Daniel Rock:

You know, I'm thinking about, I spoke with your teachers recently and you, you all gave them time once a month, half a day. The VLL team to dig into these strategies, talk about their book study, reflect on how it would work in their classroom, and plan how we're gonna teach And that's gotta be teachers, for some leaders, like that's hard to build that time. You have to get, I mean, substitutes have to get, coverage. Was that a challenge? And, and like, what, what are your thoughts on building that time and like what, how do you know it's worth it to do it? Yeah.

Kory:

I, I, I'm gonna turn that one over to, to Ms. McIntosh and simply because she was the person working directly with the teachers that had to make me understand exactly how much time the teachers needed. How much and we had to provide lunch for them in coverage, so she was instrumental. I wanted to ask her to kind of comment on that.

Taria:

First of all, I wanna say that it was so tremendous and I so much appreciate Mr. Roberts immediately saying yes to everything. You know, he was very gracious and wanting the teachers to have that time to plan. He wanted them to have as much time as they needed for study. He wanted Donn and me to have access. He wanted them to have the materials that was necessary, and he wanted them to be fed and relaxed. And that was important because we needed that atmosphere for teachers to feel comfortable with the learning. And they felt safe there with Donn and me. They felt comfortable. They looked forward to that time. And I think that that's important. I think it's important that when you're in that learning space, that you feel safe with who you're with, that you feel comfortable. And it began to feel like something that they look forward to every month. And I think a lot of that was because of the routine that they were in. The substitutes were already ordered by the assistant principal, Ms. Penson. She knew the dates ahead of time and she secured the subs. Mr. Roberts had already. Set up his bookkeeper and me with the relationship that I sent all of the names to her and she sent me the form so that I could get the orders from everyone prior to that meeting so that I could get everybody's lunch order. So everybody got what they wanted for lunch. So they got exactly what they needed and she made sure that lunch was there in a timely manner. So it was a seamless kind of thing. And so I really appreciate that and I know that the teachers appreciated that as well.

Daniel Rock:

And then, okay, here's my other. Now I'm, I'm putting myself in the mind of one of these teacher leaders, and I'm being told you're a teacher leader. Congratulations. The, you're gonna be responsible for teaching your colleagues. How to do the variety of strategies and, and some other, my colleagues may not be the most as receptive as I am. Right. I'm here 'cause I'm a teacher leader. Mrs. Johnson may be, you know, someone who likes to do the way Ms. Johnson does. And isn't that open to things? So I guess I'm wondering like, how do you prepare somebody who's not a professional like Donn or you Taria, to deliver and to be, feel confident enough to be, you know, to one, learn the content the one hand, but then be able to come in and like, deliver it with confidence and not, you know, and not feel like they're wasting their colleagues' time. I'm just wondering how you prepare them for that successfully.

Taria:

I think that was, that's twofold. I think that throughout that first year, and even at the beginning, I think they saw that modeled with Donn presenting, coming in, you know, as an outsider and dealing with a bit of resistance, a bit of questioning. They saw how that, how he was able to turn that around into something positive. So, they watched him they watched you know, me and our API, able to do PLCs because they're not always necessarily agreeable when we are doing things. And so, they were able to see models with that. So I think that that helped out as well. And we were fortunate as. folks that were asked to be a part of the VLL team are very well respected teachers and they're leaders themselves. And so they hold, they're very held in very high regard. And so they're very respected by their colleagues. So I think on top of looking at leadership as a model and being very well respected themselves, I think that they were very prepared for different obstacles that came their way.

Daniel Rock:

Donn, she said that you did a great job modeling and preparing them. I have no doubt about that. Donn and I have worked together for going on 11 years now. Traveled the country doing literacy and all kinds of great stuff. So I'm wondering, so Donn, you're working with these teachers. What are the most important, don't know, facilitation skills presentation or just what did you want them to think about? As a, as a teacher leader, as a facilitator, what were the things you wanted them to bring into that world?

Donn Kirkwood:

Well, like we always say, I mean, once we get up in front of a group and we're doing training, we don't want it to be sit and get. So we took that whole entire. Belief. And you know, when we first started out that first chapter of that book study, we were doing all, it was all about relationships and, you know, expectations and, and really looking at what literacy is why it's important to challenge students. But what happened organically is when that first meeting, we would have just the teacher leaders and we used, save the last word for me. So each, teacher leader will give a quote that they thought was powerful and, and then everyone had a chance to respond to that quote, which created a really rich conversation. But what was so beneficial is that they had that conversation on that chapter, and then that next month when we did that same chapter with the rest of the faculty and, you know, they would rotate in through each block, they were able to really see their peers and, and really make the connection between their conversation as leaders. And then that conversation that was happening with those teachers in each of the block. I, I think really preparing them and having those conversations. And, and really working through those conversations in a safe place. Like Taria was saying, that there was a lot of trust, there was a lot of respect, and we had optimism like we wanted them to be open. Yeah. Sometimes we're like, okay, where is this conversation going? But at the same time we were like, okay, we value that. Because even when we were doing it with the teacher leaders, it like. It really opened up, okay, this is what they're thinking. Which then really allowed Taria and I to like really get deeper into our planning. So, okay, this is how they see this. But the most beautiful thing about it was, it's like sometimes they had those common misconceptions. Even though the strategy's not really effective, like lecturing per se, and, and you know, you might have seen at the beginning of the first year, there's some , they're trying to protect it., No, it's really, but then at the end of the year they're like, no, no, you should never lecture. Like this has a ne negative effect on. So you actually see the transformation. But at the same time, we never let those teacher leaders get in front of the teachers without that those conversations really listening to each other so that we, we really. We felt prepared and confident forward. So we had the conversation, oh, we might see some resistance on this. So instead of just saying, oh, there might be resistance, we started talking about, okay, how can we make it relevant to this group, let's say CTE teachers that might not see this strategy being beneficial. And that group was like, okay, this is not gonna work for CTE teachers, so we shouldn't even put it in front of our teachers. So they were very intentional always keeping their teams in mind, the teachers that they're working with within their departments.

Daniel Rock:

I noticed that one of the roles of this team was to create core beliefs, and, and then also a west side six, right? So these are like school-wide. Beliefs that we have. where did that come from, that idea of having core beliefs and, and writing them down? I'm curious.

Kory:

It had to be tear and Donn, Daniel Rock: It had to be Taria and it had to be tear and like

Daniel Rock:

how that came about?

Kory:

I knew we needed something to help with our school culture, drive our professional development, and I kind of just leaned to the experts on how we got there. Like that was my overall big arching theme, and I just kind of turned them loose to do what they do. Again, they're the experts. So I, a lot of times I got out of the way and let the experts I, I would kind of give my input and just kind of let them go with it.

Daniel Rock:

So, Taria, how can you tell me about, like why that came about?

Taria:

Well, Donn definitely was the spearhead with that, that core belief system. I was fortunate enough that I was able to work with Donn in another location in our district, actually our feeder middle school, with beginning this process too about core beliefs. And I will say that I definitely understand and agree totally with the premise of that is that before you know, you begin any journey together is that you have to have. A common place that everybody begins. That you've got to have a place where you all believe something so that you can move forward toward a common goal. And so there were things that we all needed to believe about children, believe about learning before we could move forward. And so stimulating that conversation among the faculty and digging deep and really forcing them to talk and speak about those things was very beneficial for both groups of teachers. And so, and he constantly would come back to those core beliefs. Hey, look, now we said that we believe. That all children can learn. We believe that all students should have high rigor. We should have high rigor, and we should have high expectations for all students. So it was important at different points of the year to go back and relate to those core beliefs. So establishing those was very important. And so I think that that was key and I appreciate that, that Donn did that for us.

Daniel Rock:

It seems to me as a teacher, if I come to a school and the school, you know, prince or, or the principal or the district says, these are our beliefs. This is what, you know, x district believes it can feel very bureaucratic and like somebody made this in an office down the street, you know, maybe they Chachi, ptd it or Googled, , create six core beliefs for my school. And it's, it's not personal to me. Like I didn't have anything to do with it. It was just given to me. Whereas this was part of the VLL team's charge is to come up with their core beliefs, and not just from scratch, but from like their own, from the research, right? They, they were, they were using the book studies

Taria:

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Rock:

they were doing, and which was, which I believe was visible learning for literacy and teacher clarity were the two of the core texts that were used. But you have professional teachers who've done research and reading. And then the team came together and created these. Was it a, was it a difficult process? Was there a lot of argument and, tearing of clothing? Like, like of just like anger rendering, rendering of clothes where they're just like angry at each other? Or was it pleasant and easy and done in 10 minutes? Like, tell me a little bit about the process.

Donn Kirkwood:

I honestly will have to say it, it took several workshops to, to get to the, to where we were with the core beliefs. And, and to kind of talk about, you know, where did it originate from? It was another school in, in, in South Carolina. I had a principal walk in and said, Donn , what would my teachers need to believe for this school to be successful? And that was Dr. Hagerty. And him and I ended up. Publishing a paper was casa is the leadership conference in, in South Carolina. But when we were doing the book study, there was one chapter that was all around those beliefs. So, once we finished it, we kind of revisited this and said, okay, you know, what would it take for our school? What would it, what would we have to believe to really have an impact and influence on the success of our students? Taria and I first started out like, how are we gonna present this? Do we just give what the book says? But at the same time we were like, Hey, we can't just have them copy the book because then. Then it's the books. It's not theirs. So we, we actually gave them a whole bunch of different formats, different beliefs. We set it all up in, in a Google document, and, and they kind of just went through they revised it. But then we kind of like, we just let it sit in like simmer for, for a month. And then we came back and we really then finalized it. But we said we need everyone's feedback. So we kind of created like a gallery walk with each of the beliefs. And then each student, I mean each teacher came and they, and they responded like, what did they think? What, you know, what would they add? And then based on all that feedback, we just kind of combine it all together to have a voice. And once we had those beliefs, then we started setting those smart goals on those beliefs. But I mean, that, that was almost three months, that was like the last three months after we finished the book study the first year is really getting what does the school belief. But at the same time, I'm working with Kory and Taria to make sure, you know, I'm not, we're going somewhere that, , doesn't align with, , where their mission and vision is. So it was, I would say it was probably one of the more complex, like there was a lot of thought and a lot of discussion in that development.

Taria:

Can I talk about the last one?

Daniel Rock:

please.

Taria:

wanna talk about the very last one. It's interesting. The last one, it was very pivotal because it was added because it was a sudden aha for the group. Because as they went through and they talked about that, they felt like that learning intentions, you know, needed to be clear and communicated to students. They felt like that, , students,, should have high rigor. They went through all of these things with the core police, and then at the very end,, they were done and we were finished. I think we had five. And then they said, wait a minute. mean, we're done with it. The list is done. And they said, but you know what? There's one that we forgot and then they tack on there at the end that they felt, and I, I thought this was so powerful, they said that they felt it was important that they added, that it was important to, to continue to have a culture that fostered adult learning, continuous learning. And I thought adding that at the very end was just awesome. And I don't remember who started that conversation. Perhaps one of the teachers that you will end up interviewing later for a podcast. I think it may have originated with her, but I thought that it was so great that they came up with feeling like it was important to add that. I think that was,

Daniel Rock:

Well,

Taria:

I, I thought that was wonderful.

Daniel Rock:

validates the work you're doing. It validates the work that they're doing, and it gets to the heart to me of what teaching is. I mean, to me, like as I see a teacher as and foremost as a learner, you have to approach it at, from the perspective, I'm, I'm a learner and I'm bringing in other people to learn with me, and I've just learned a lot more. Before they have. And so I'm going to, I'm gonna teach them what I've learned, but I'm also gonna keep learning because that's, that's the only way to be a great teacher. In fact, teaching is an act of learning. For me that, that's what I love about teaching is like, oh boy, I get to learn this in depth now because I get to teach it even deeper than I knew it before.

Donn Kirkwood:

I, I think the one belief that really came out in all of our conversations, that third one was , it needed to be a proven research strategy. All of a sudden, like there was this huge shift from, okay, I'm just gonna take this from the teaching channel, or I'm gonna just take this from, you know, a website this team is they became the filter. Okay, where's the research behind the strategy? How is it proven? Really seeing not only them being beliefs, but really taking ownership and, and really controlling the conversation. I mean, even from the very first one, which clear learning attentions moving to what is success criteria. Yeah.

Taria:

Mm-hmm.

Donn Kirkwood:

your rubric? You know, I mean, they were huge advocates for these beliefs. I mean, progress monitoring and feedback. Okay, your student is not progressing. What are you doing to close this gap? What type of feedback are you giving to your students? So these beliefs like really became the center of all of our conversations.

Taria:

Donn was talking about feedback and he's right, but I love that when they, they added some things to feedback that it must be specific and timely, you know, because so much, it's sometimes we wait too long to give kids feedback and so they were very adamant about that feedback. Needed to be timely feedback.

Daniel Rock:

Yeah. I spoke with Alita, of your teachers on the VLL team,

Taria:

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Rock:

she was telling me how those kids come up to her the next day and say, you know, how'd I do? Because they know now they're gonna get that feedback the next day and all. And there's one thing we know about feedback is the longer you wait, the less effective it is. Uh, you know, that's why video games are the best learning tool because. The immediate, you, you play and you die in the game and you try again. Okay? You play, you die in the game. You try again, you play, you die in again. You try again. You immediately learn like, don't go down that alley.'cause that's where the robots are. So that I once heard someone say for with feedback that day, next day, or don't bother.

Taria:

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Rock:

that's a little extreme. I don't know if that's exactly right. It's it, but it's close. It gets, gets the right idea. Taria Donn , go. Let's, we're gonna zoom in a little bit into those half days. So we've got a group of teacher leaders. got a book study. They've got this book. Either one for, for year, year one was. learning. full literacy. Year was teacher clarity playbook. they've, I assume they've read their chapters now they're with you two. are we doing for a half day? What does that day look like? Gimme some of the details about how you facilitated that day. So by the end of it, they, one, understand and have discussed the strategy, and two, are able to communicate it and talk about it to the various audiences. what are some of the ways that you have organized those half days? I know the two of you collaborated deeply to plan, like it wasn't, you didn't just throw 'em in there and say, don't come out until you're ready. You, you guys plan together deeply. Can you talk a little bit about how you tried to structure that time? Taria, take it. You go for it.

Taria:

I was gonna say, Donn , you wanna take that? Well, Donn and I did a lot of pre-planning. we did a lot virtually, we planned and we used a lot. Of the days, you know, like, when he was here after he had worked with the teachers, we would spend the rest of the time planning here. So we spent a lot of time together talking about next time and what we would do. So it was a lot of, uh, pre-planning. and Donn would have the agenda set, you know, based on our pre-plan. He had the chapter set about what he wanted to cover with the teachers and he would present the staff development. I mean, he would do the presentation with us in, with the VLL team and he would present it in his own way using best practice strategies, those high effect size strategies that are mentioned in the visible learning book. And he would definitely highlight the west side six in those, in that presentation. And you know, he would definitely involve discourse in those strategies because one of the things that he stressed to the teachers and especially the BLL team, is how important talk is with students. That students need to talk to each other, they need to talk to the teacher. And so that really cements learning is, you know, that talk. And so he would definitely model that with the teachers. And so that's what he would do during that time. And then once they learned the material, then we would go into the second phase of, okay, we, I've immersed you in the experience, you know the content. Now let's turn and let's talk about. How would you present this to your colleagues? And that's where the turn would come. And then what they would talk about and, you know, he would lead and I would, I co-lead with him that discussion with helping them plan how they would lead the staff development the next day on how they would present it to their peers.

Daniel Rock:

I wanna point out something that I just think is so important, though. You could have made the decision. Kory and Taria were, you know, were paying Donn , he's coming in to coach our teachers. I'm gonna stand in the back of the room afterwards I'll tell him what I liked and what I didn't like, or, you know, I trust they'll all do a great job. Let me know how it goes. Right. I work with a lot of administrators sometimes, and it's like, oh, the teacher said this. Oh, teacher said that. What I'm hearing is, Taria, no, you rolled up your sleeves you said, we are going to do this together. Right. Are you're, you're using Don's experiences, his knowledge, his just, you know. Expertise, but you are the person at the school who's there every day, you're the person who can follow up and have those conversations and is in the trenches with the teachers in terms of working with kids, working with parents. So you doing it with him seems like a critical component to this being successful. Am I right in thinking that,

Kory:

Yes,

Daniel Rock:

How,

Kory:

yes,

Daniel Rock:

Kory,

Kory:

yes, yes.

Daniel Rock:

important, Mr. Roberts?

Kory:

Because even throughout the first year, one of the concerns that the teachers had,

Daniel Rock:

Mm-hmm.

Kory:

wanted to make sure the administrators

Daniel Rock:

Hmm.

Kory:

in the journey with them, not just me, all of my assistant principals. So we had to tell them that we were in our own personal book study. But Taria and Donn , their interactions and the way they work, they work so well together. And I think you really hit on it that Donn was gonna get on the plane at some point and fly off somewhere else and was gonna be left here with West Side High School to make sure everything, everything worked right. And again, it is, it's, it's a lot easier sometimes when you pass somebody from the outside to come in because it's that expectation. But I think them two, working in the, in our VLL in our entire faculty, seeing how well they work together, it, it kept the continuity from, from month to month. I think that's why they were excited about the, the monthly pd. And sometimes for high school teachers, they do a lot and it's a long day, but to have that excitement, it really goes back to Taria and Donn and their preparation.

Daniel Rock:

Yeah. So we're talking about that follow up, so Taria being part of it, allowed her to follow up. Can you talk a little bit about now, afterwards, like in between the month? So, so, you know, you're doing these PDs every month, but in between that. They're using the strategy and so there's two things I would imagine. One is feedback to help them get better, and the second is celebration of us as at school, you know, digging into these things and getting better. Mr. Roberts,

Taria:

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Rock:

you talk a little bit about how you tried to celebrate and encourage and build momentum in between those, those visits?

Kory:

I, I think it, it was us really having those small celebrations as administrators, us going into classrooms, seeing the strategies, us bragging in our, our newsletters

Daniel Rock:

Mm-hmm.

Kory:

the teachers and, and spreading that. Spreading that joy around, not just with the BLL team, but when we saw their colleagues working extremely hard. When we saw it in the lesson plans the first year, we had stickers that we would put, you know, outside of the classroom to say visible learning. Has been in this classroom, we saw, we saw from one semester to the next semester, some, some really young teachers really grow just because I think they had the, the instructional strategies and, and some things in their tool belt to, to help with that. So we had a great year across the board. But academically, being able to encourage our young teachers and our veteran teachers, and probably another thing that happened that was a, a celebration. We had some young teachers really. Embrace everything. And, and, and I'm not talking about high school teachers, but some of our young teachers didn't have any bad habits. Like they were, they were just like sponges and they wanted this, this knowledge and information, and they really wanted to make a difference because now in education, we have a lot of teachers that don't take that traditional path to education that I took. So I had the, you know, the practicums and the student teaching, and now we are in a different, different ball game in education. So having somebody work directly with you because you actually doing the job as a, as a student, I think I went to the practicums. I tried to pay attention, but if I would've had this kind of support when I first started teaching, I would've been a monster, you know, because I wanted that, I wanted that knowledge.

Daniel Rock:

Yeah,

Kory:

was giving it to me though. So this setting takes us all back to being teachers. And what would we want somebody to give us as far as the pd?

Daniel Rock:

I would go to different classrooms and watch. I found out who are the best teachers at the

Kory:

Yes.

Daniel Rock:

and I'm gonna sit here, I'm gonna watch you to figure out,'cause like, you know, the kids talk and you know who the stars are. and I would go and, and I would watch them, but I don't know that other teachers do that. Like, that was

Kory:

Right.

Daniel Rock:

I was hungry young. But yeah, it sounds like some of your young teachers are, but I did have those practicums too, so I knew what I was looking for. knew what I didn't know. What about feedback, Taria and maybe people who might, I don't know, struggle, who didn't quite get it? Like Donn said, maybe the CTE teachers were like, what? Like, I'm trying to build a computer. What does that have to do with me? Was there anything that you did to in between the visits to facilitate their growth and understanding?

Taria:

One of the things that we made sure that they understood was that we were always open to coming in and helping and co-teaching, helping them with the strategy. We would always, you know. Open that opportunity up, Donn always opened, opened that opportunity up for the time that he was here. You know, he would say, if you want me to come into your classroom, I certainly am able to do that. And I certainly opened that up to teachers as well. You know, if they were particularly a little bit nervous or anxious about a strategy and they wanted some support, then I certainly was willing to come in there and give them a helping hand. And sometimes I think just knowing that you're willing. Makes them feel relaxed. You know, they may not ever invite you necessarily, but knowing that you are there and I got a couple of invites and, and Donn I think did too. But I think just knowing that you're willing helps them feel safe. So I think that was good. I also think the, the diversity on the VLL team helped eliminate that kind of what you're saying because they had somebody was a part of their discipline on the VLL team. So they kind of reached out to them more so, than say to me and that's who their sounding board was. They normally wanted me to come in if they wanted a shout out in the newsletter.'cause they knew that I would make sure that it was in the.

Daniel Rock:

Oh, I would be invi. I'd be inviting you constantly.

Taria:

Yeah, they knew their name would end up in print with me, but but they did go to their BLL member and and I really liked that because, you know, that's why, you know, Mr. Roberts wanted the team put together that way is he wanted them to have a like person on there that taught their subject matter.

Daniel Rock:

What about year? So first year, you know, you did Visible Learning literacy, you did teacher clarity. Is there a new book this year that you've chosen?

Taria:

We are going to complete teacher clarity because we did not finish it last year. We got right there in the middle. So, we've done our professional development plan for the year and our plan is to complete that book because we did not just wanna stop in the middle. We talked about the importance of SREB and the study that we started with them and that wasn't something that we were going just leave and.

Daniel Rock:

Okay.

Taria:

Throw out Mr. Roberts talked about that, and so I think that was important that he led that conversation.

Daniel Rock:

Depth over breath, right? Let's, let's, let's learn this for real

Taria:

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Rock:

it's a new year, new book. My last question is choosing the team. Picking the right people. So next week we're gonna have on two of your people we'll have Claire Armstrong and Alita Greenley. And they are good. I, I've already spoken to them and they said to me the, the most important things is getting the right people on the team. can you just talk about, briefly what did you look for and what do you, what are the tips you would give another leader in terms of creating a, learning leadership team of teachers?

Kory:

I can briefly kind of talk about my thoughts and turn it over to Taria and Donn. I, I knew it would be important to get teachers across the content, like I knew that was gonna be extremely important and we knew we wanted to find some influences within the school, but we also knew we wanted some strong voices. And I don't know if this, like we didn't need all Yes men. Like we needed people to really and we had some very strong personalities, extremely strong personalities. And one of the things that Donn and Taria probably didn't have time to go into when I was going into the BLL sessions, it was work, it was back and forth. It was agreeing and professionally disagreeing. So having those key people I think sped up our process. It, it really did. And we've had people from the guidance department, every, every department, every phase of the school, because we wanted total buy-in. And I was, we thought that would be a good way to, to speed up that process.

Daniel Rock:

So influencers, voices, diversity of perspectives are three of the big ones. Anything else you wanna add, Taria? To who should be on picking the right people?

Taria:

Continuous learners.

Daniel Rock:

learners. People who are always people who ask to go to the PDs. Right. Send, send me. Send me. Good.

Taria:

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Rock:

so is there anything about this process or this experience that we haven't spoken about that you think people might wonder about or might be useful for people to think about?

Taria:

I mean, the, the big word that comes to me is trust and relationships.

Kory:

I think so, and, and I kind of wanna piggyback off Taria, because it's the speed of that trust. As soon as we can trust each other, and we know that that part about having each other's backs. That means something in education. And I've been in this profession over 30 years and we wanna make sure we continue that. Like, I'm not always gonna be the principal of West Side High School and, and my teachers won't always work here at West Side High School. So again, we want this to, to to extend we in public education for a reason and we want that to keep going.

Daniel Rock:

I guess the question then becomes, how do you build trust? What are the key steps to building trust? I don't know. That's, that's not, that's not done overnight. Right. That's a, that's an ongoing experience.

Kory:

Probably a, the. I. Okay. of, a lot of altar calls. I believe it. Well, thank you guys. I really appreciate your time. Next week, we're gonna have two teachers to hear their version of this and listen to how they perceived this experience and how they grew from it. So thank you all for coming and we look forward to hearing from them next week. Have a great year at Westside High School. Hey, thank you so much. We certainly appreciate the opportunity to come before you. We, we really cherish this opportunity.