Muslim Money Talk
Introducing the Muslim Money Talk Podcast, a place for all things Muslim and Money related.
Every week we'll be sitting down with Founders, leaders and industry experts from across multiple disciplines to discuss lessons learned, mistakes made and most importantly 'How they did it?'.
Brought to you by Kestrl: The Muslim Money App, software to help Muslims grow their wealth without compromise. Find out more here: https://kestrl.io/
Muslim Money Talk
Making Muslim Women Financially LITERATE | Yasmine El-Mehairy - Muslim Money Talk Ep 27
Yasmine El-Mehairy, a serial entrepreneur and founder of Deja Money, discusses her journey through startups, her inspiration from the Arab Spring, and her mission to empower Muslim women in finance through Deja. She shares lessons learned from her past ventures and insights on fostering financial literacy and independence among women in Saudi Arabia and beyond.
This podcast is powered by Kestrl.
Kestrl is an app that helps Muslim to grow their wealth without compromising their beliefs
Kestrl - The Muslim Money App
https://kestrl.io/
Show Notes:
00:00 - Opening
02:05 - Networking at fintech events.
03:06 - How entrepreneurship began accidentally.
05:56 - Founding Supermama to fill a content gap.
12:34 - Early funding challenges in Egypt.
17:01 - Supermama’s exit and stakeholder struggles.
24:32 - Cushies: A purpose-driven venture.
28:36 - Transition to UK fintech roles.
34:16 - Deja Money’s origins and goals.
38:38 - Cultural barriers to financial literacy.
44:30 - Saudi focus: Women in the workforce.
52:20 - Lessons on co-founders and networks.
54:52 - Building communities with intention.
58:19 - Yasmeen’s legacy and vision.
Dear Google. What are names of inspiring women in finance so that I can name my startup after? When we have Sayyida Khadija right, go back a step. So I come from a background where we just don't talk about money.
Speaker 2:Why do Muslim women have a problem with money?
Speaker 1:I think the problem is we never talked about it, and it doesn't have to necessarily be a bad thing. It was what it was back in the day. Let's about it, and it doesn't have to necessarily be a bad thing. It was what it was back in the day. Let's change it Basically. In the last five years, 20% of the entire workforce are women new to work. But I believe that genuinely being there for people and being supportive and offering help and going out of your way to offer opens every door.
Speaker 2:In today's episode, I'm joined by Yasmeen Al-Mahery, the founder and the CEO of DJ Money and a three-time successful founder in her own right. She shared her experience about how she was inspired to get into entrepreneurship by the Arab Spring in her home of Egypt and how that led her into a journey of a successfully exited startup, another one which didn't work out, and today, with what she's doing, revolutionizing the way in which Muslim women are empowered to learn about financial services. As always, I'm your host, Areeb Siddiqui, and this is Muslim Money Talk. Before we begin, we noticed that only about 12% of you are actually subscribed, so if you like what you're listening to, then please consider subscribing. Leave us a like or, even better, a review, because it really really does help more people find us. Thank you. Now back to the show, Yasmin. Assalamu alaikum.
Speaker 1:Alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatalam.
Speaker 2:Thank you for joining us today on Muslim Money Talk.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me. I've been following for a while.
Speaker 2:It's always a pleasure when a guest listens and tunes in. But last time we saw each other I don't know if you remember we were in- Saudi In Saudi. Riyadh, in Riyadh yeah, that's right. At 24 FinTech Conference.
Speaker 1:How was that trip for you? Uh, it was very it was. It was amazing, actually, because the event itself was eye-opening in terms of what's happening there on the ground, fintechs that are taking place shaping the country and stuff, but also for me, alhamdulillah, I've met, I've made so many connections in terms of partnership, potential investors and so forth, just from that trip and follow through.
Speaker 2:And follow through. Have you been back to the region since?
Speaker 1:Yes, I've spent a good two weeks in November and I'm going again in February, Wow so am I To leap?
Speaker 3:I assume, Okay fine, well, I'll see you there. I'll see you there, inshallah.
Speaker 2:So, mashallah, you have one of the most varied and diverse CVs or resumes of anyone that we've had on the show so far. So I'm picking out. You started your career at IBM in Cairo, you did some time in banking at Citi, you did some consulting at Deloitte, but of course you are a three-time founder in very different areas. So I always ask, whenever we have someone with that sort of background on the show was entrepreneurship always the goal, the dream?
Speaker 1:No, Can we say that entrepreneurship happened twice by accident?
Speaker 2:Twice by accident.
Speaker 1:And one should learn right. The first time with Supermama. It was a very interesting story because I had been very reluctant to get into my own business. We were so 2000,. When was that 2018, with the global financial crisis. I was working at a startup at the time and we were very committed to the startup. Everybody felt like it was family. The founders were amazing. It was just this amazing feeling. But at the time, the larger companies took work of the medium companies. Medium companies took work of the smaller companies and at this point, smaller services company cannot compete with a freelancer.
Speaker 1:So the company had to shut down and this devastated me like it was emotionally hard for me what was the? Start uh, we, we built software services. Fine, so okay, a regular tech startup wasn't even a startup tech services company in cairo uh, in cairo. So at that point, when, uh, when that happened, um, I took my team there were like 12 of us and we went to the last client project we were working on and we moved there so delivered the, the continued delivering the project from there and there it was such a bad environment, you know, like your typical toxic working environment.
Speaker 1:Without getting into details, but like everything on the checklist of don't do that, they did everything. So I quit after delivering and my team at that point sat with me and said Yasmin, please, let's start start something where OpenCraft went wrong. We can do better. You can think of things, you're brilliant, you know how to lead us. And I was like guys, I can't have this on my conscience, that somebody needs to get paid and I can't pay them you know, at that point, this is what I was obsessed about.
Speaker 1:For somebody's you know, it was a huge responsibility Because I had built that reputation in a certain area of tech media, like media technology. I got headhunted to run projects. So I would again reach out to my team the same people to do things on freelance basis, but I'm not responsible for the risk. Around the time when it was the Egyptian revolution, so 2011, we all had the vision of change. Let's do something big. And actually I kind of had attempted a small project which I almost forgot about. I just remembered now, right before Supermama, we had attempted to build some sort of medical directory, but we never looked at it as a startup. It was just a project. And around this time, it was about doing new things, innovating, getting your you know, like let's build a new egypt, let's build a new us, uh. So, and even before the revolution actually took place, it was that vibe in the street, in a way.
Speaker 1:So, starting 2010, this is where a few friends and I got together and like we're not happy with where we are in life. We're more senior now. We, we need to do something. And we, for six months, I think, we were meeting at my place thinking of what we can do and everything would be shut down. Feasibility study it doesn't make money. That requires a lot of business development. That requires blah, blah, blah. Like someone would always find something where things can work, up until the point where my sister-in-law was pregnant and when she told us at this point of what became the super baby that inspired Super Mama, it hits me that my parents are doctors. I live in a part of Cairo where everybody speaks English and is comfortable finding information online to support their parenting journey. What about the majority of the country, which are Arabic speakers? And at that point, only 4% of all entire world content online was Arabic 4%.
Speaker 2:Globally.
Speaker 1:Globally. Wow.
Speaker 1:And you can imagine, I think we're like 20% of the population of the world, like Arabic speakers, so like there was something I could do there and I have like in my head it was so simple. Again, complete, naive, first time founder right. Everybody needs parenting. I have the information. I have access to doctors and parenting guides and coaches and so forth. It will market itself. It will sell itself. Everything will happen. Everybody would want to advertise with me. Again, completely a naive founder. And then somehow I found myself doing balance sheets and pnls and talking to investors and raising funds and building a company and how did, how did you get over that fear where you said you didn't want to be responsible?
Speaker 2:I never did?
Speaker 1:I don't think I did at this point, but, like even in my choices now as a third time founder, for example, until I am comfortable with funding, I never hire full timers, I hire part timers. Okay, so that at least you know they have a way. Yeah. But what I've also learned is that even is that number one when people believe in you, they would want to work, taking this risk to if you provide a good working environment and I'm very keen on the whole working environment and a good place to work and a place to thrive, and giving people a chance to learn other things than the core job they do.
Speaker 1:So I encourage, for example, people in marketing to understand what back end versus front end means. And the opposite they become more employable in the future. So, should God forbid things happen and what I'm doing doesn't work, they have a better opportunity at life absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's one of the biggest pros. We say that to all of our employees at kestrel, that exactly look if you're, if you're coming here to get rich quickly, this is not the place for you, but we can incredibly accelerate your learning journey right, for if you want to stay here, that's fantastic, but if you want to go off and do something else, we could accelerate that and you could go in way more senior yeah, you end up later on one of the benefits of a startup.
Speaker 1:Yes, but something you said really struck me because I never considered that the arab spring, especially in egypt, that that would precipitate entrepreneurship absolutely like you're living in a world where but mind you put yourself in this mindset it's 2010, it's as gloomy as it gets, but given what, we knew at the time, it's as gloomy as it gets.
Speaker 1:Things are horrible, unfair. All that is offered to you is a structured, rich man world and you're seeing what's happening all over the world and it's very different than what you have here. Yet we're technology, people. We can change right we can make a difference. So, come to think of it, a lot of the people that led the revolution were actually from a tech background wow it's the ability, and like it's the knowledge, that you can change things were you ever tempted to leave?
Speaker 2:because, like you said yourself, you were educated english-speaking, you'd had big brands on your cv, did you think I could go to the uk or go to america? No, but back then. I'm just so interested in this because from my background I'm of pakistani origin. Pakistan has a big issue where there's a nationwide brain drain, where anyone who gets educated or has a chance of getting out, they get out right and they move into the western world, and that's a big issue that they face. But it seems like many of my Arab friends, wherever they are, like from Egypt or Morocco, sometimes they want to give back and stay there.
Speaker 1:I think both are true simultaneously. So in a way, I mean I am here, so in and of itself this proves the point right. But, realistically speaking, so I did my first master's here in the uk. A lot of the people that I did the degree with I was on scholarship with other arabs jordan, palestine, syria, uh, lebanon, we have a few, we had a few saudis. We did the. We did a one-year degree together. Everybody was studying something different, but we were living together. The majority of them came back. I didn't. I felt I want to go back, I want to give back, I want to develop back. Actually, in my head, six months before I moved to the UK, in my head, I was never leaving Egypt. Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, we'll get to that when we get to Supermama, because a lot has happened. So, yes, there is brain drain, but there is also willingness to give back. Actually, the startup I was working on, the one that collapsed the three founders were geniuses who lived abroad, like one in the US actually two of them in the US and one in Canada and they had come to Egypt around the mid 2000s hoping to create change. So we do have that we want to give back, but then, without getting into too much politics, I think that the country is pushing us out.
Speaker 1:So really actually the entire region is pushing us out at this point, gosh.
Speaker 2:I'd love to delve into it more, but we're not the thinking muslim podcast but perhaps we could. We could delve into that in the future. But tell me about super mama then, because you kind of alluded to why it started. Your brother's wife was having a baby and you thought not everyone can get access to this information, which is all in english. Let's try and create almost like a, an education portal or platform where it's all for mothers to be, or new mothers, or yeah basically women taking care of households.
Speaker 1:Okay, so with a focus on parenting, but like we use, so think of it this way it was part a parenting magazine, part Mumsnet in the UK you know where mothers can discuss things, talk about things, get questions answers and so forth. It was phenomenal in that it started out honestly. We were two founders with maybe 17 18 volunteers writing content and doing research and editing, and so forth because they believed in the mission.
Speaker 1:and then we paid one software developer out of pocket me and my co-founder and then we won a few competition prizes, so we had a bit of cash to hire more tech Launch and immediately as soon as we launched, we were very fortunate. Alhamdulillah, we were featured in. We got to the finals of. It was called Ibda' ma Google, which means start Ma Google, which means start with Google, which is basically the first Google initiative to push entrepreneurship in Egypt, and I think it started with over 1,200 companies applying and we were in the last, in the final 10. So that gave us a lot of media exposure.
Speaker 1:So it was alhamdulillah, alhamdulillah, alhamdulillah. It was very good for us to get momentum in terms of visibility, the website being seen.
Speaker 2:You know momentum, but also investor interest so at that point you were just taking competition money and some grants? I guess yeah, but you hadn't given away any equity at this point, no equity but this was your.
Speaker 1:You were interested in fundraising oh yeah, yeah, we immediately fundraised after really okay.
Speaker 2:What was that experience like?
Speaker 1:uh, painful, yeah, fundraising is always painful. Even now, like three, three times later, it's still painful, like, and it doesn't get easier.
Speaker 2:It actually gets harder and I'm sure you know these days it's just um I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, of course, but back then, what were you looking?
Speaker 1:were you looking for angels within egypt, or okay, so mind you, back then we did not know what angels were. Okay, because, again, this is 2011 in Egypt, right? Yeah. Yeah, which is very different from the Silicon Valley experience. So we were part of Startup Bootcamp Incubator in Denmark. We won this as part of a competition.
Speaker 2:Oh, nice Okay.
Speaker 1:It was a lovely experience. But back then I remember so that was, I think, probably November 2011. And I remember one of the American entrepreneurs coming in and sitting there saying oh, I don't know how you guys do it in Europe. Everything is so hard, everything is so difficult. Look at us in Silicon Valley and talking about how easy things are. And then he looked at me and my co-founder, who also were a hijab, and he said I have nothing to say to you at that point. All the advice we were given I'll get people to pay using credit card.
Speaker 1:At this point, credit card penetration in egypt was 10, so it was a completely different ball game, right, you're? You're talking funding, like the idea of investment. At this point, even the angels or the family offices or stuff everybody was thinking so what's my return tomorrow? Like the idea of equity was new at that point and I I I'm not even sure if this still happens in egypt, but at that point in egypt, there was no concept of equity contracts in government. Wow, oh yeah. Yeah, it was. It was back in the dinosaur era. Okay.
Speaker 2:Gosh, it doesn't seem that long ago, but yeah, I guess things have moved really really fast and it's all precipitated in the West and then, I guess, trickles down to the rest of the world.
Speaker 2:But we experienced this when we fundraised from all over the world, from angels and some institutions, both here in the UK but in places like Pakistan, malaysia, saudi. There were a number of angels that we came across who just had no familiarity and the main thing that they were interested in investing into in the past had been property, you know, bricks and mortar, something they could touch and feel. So the idea of a startup, let's learn a fintech, some sort of app on your phone, just I don't know. They thought we were like a scam for the longest time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, even today, sometimes when I talk to angels who are keen on what deejah is doing in terms of mission, they don't get it because again, I tend to feel I mean, you're better at this than I am, but I tend to feel we muslims kind of like gold property and that's it, like yeah comfortable.
Speaker 2:That's what we do. It's definitely something that's still there, uh, but it's something that's changing. It's changing absolutely sorry, I know you keep trying to take a sip of your coffee. Go for it. Go for it. You are the first guest actually I'll point this out who's actually brought their own refreshments. So that's very kind of you. So a lot of firsts. So you're actually the first episode in 2025. That's why I think this will be going out nice, the the first one there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like being the first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of fuss, a lot of fuss. So this Supermama, it sounds like it was very painful to set up and you were breaking new ground, but it all culminated in a successful exit as well, moshla. So how did it go from there to over there?
Speaker 1:I think when someone talks about exited startups, they kind of forget to mention the journey, like or sometimes they mention the journey and it just doesn't make sense, like who and who started whatever in their garage and like who can afford the garage these days anyway? Um but it, it was a hard journey. It was very difficult. We've had all sorts of um stakeholder drama. Uh, my board was extremely difficult. Um, again, it was their first time being on boards. They were like they were corporate ventures or corporate funds that started getting into angel, into startup investing for the first time. So one of the key issues that we faced was that some of those board members were treating it as if it was a project in their conglomerate, not a dependent company.
Speaker 2:Who were these board members?
Speaker 1:We had representatives from our key investors, without mentioning names, but one was from a media conglomerate that set up their venture fund. One was from a media conglomerate that set up their venture fund. One was from a venture fund from the advertising agencies, kind of. The third was from the startup world. So, basically, but again, everybody was new to this, so drawing lines was very difficult.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, okay, but despite all that that you managed to secure an exit. Was it to one of these?
Speaker 1:no, we exited to a competitor actually oh really, and it wasn't an easy journey because, uh, towards like, towards the end. So we exited at the end of 2019, end of 2016. My issues with the board have been um unrecoverable. So I stepped down as ceo, stayed on the board but stepped on a ceo. This is when I founded kushis and and since then it again I would say lack of maturity from them and from myself. It became more of um clashing really yeah, it was very it.
Speaker 1:It was hard and everybody knew about it. It was like yet another time I think. I can't mention names, but I received an email that I was not supposed to be on. Oh no. Where someone said I hope she gets nothing, when we were talking about the exit. She's been troubled for years. I hope she gets nothing, I'd rather anyone else, or even throw the money in the bin what was?
Speaker 2:what were these conflicts around? Was it strategy direction hiring?
Speaker 1:part of a direction in the sense that, uh, they were pushing for us to stay focused 100% on content in my views, which turned out to be right and I hate to say I said so but like, um, content was dying, you couldn't just monetize on content, we had to get into services or commerce. And their direction was quite pushy in the sense and when I said I was leaving, they felt like somebody has backstabbed them in a way and like, instead of looking at it objectively, we'd started getting into feelings and hopes and dreams and you broke my heart and things like that and this was not the case. They reached the point where I was threatened to be sued. It got very dramatic.
Speaker 1:It got very dramatic and again as a first time founder still in my younger years, it really gets to you.
Speaker 2:Gosh and you'd been part. I mean, this was your baby.
Speaker 1:It was my baby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you'd been part of it. For what? Six years up until that point, yep 2010, 2016.
Speaker 1:Yep 20, 2016, 2017, 2018. I think the market has been clearly shifting. It wasn't working. I started pushing for an exit and again it was like well, you made it this way. And it was like, seriously, this is not a couple's discussion, we're survive. It needs to either be sold or change direction. We pushed for an exit. We had an offer on the table I would say even slightly better than the offer that we took but it did not align Like the equity structure versus cash did not align with what my board would have preferred. So somehow that died and we exited to Mawdua, which is a media conglomerate out of Jordan based in UAE. So it went well and you know, at the end of the day, all's well that ends well, alhamdulillah.
Speaker 2:So. So thank you for listening to muslim money talk. If you like what you've heard so far, you might be interested in checking out what we do at kestrel, the muslim money app. Kestrel is a service that helps muslims who want to grow their wealth without having to compromise, whether it's on their belief or user experience or price.
Speaker 2:I founded kestrel because of how fed up I was at how poor islamic financial services were in this country. Often people didn't use them because of how fed up I was at how poor Islamic financial services were in this country. Often people didn't use them because of how bad the user experience or customer service and indeed, how high in price they were. So Kestrel was the answer to that. If you download the Kestrel app today, it can help you by creating a budgeting plan. Plug in whatever bank account you have and it will create an auto budget just for you. You can then tell us what goals you're saving for and we'll save towards them automatically into pots and then, crucially, link you towards Sharia compliant investment and savings products as well. So download Kestrel today and try it out for yourself. Now back to the podcast. I mean any exit is a good exit. The In the startup world.
Speaker 2:The risk of failure is so high, particularly in those parts of the world. Is Supermama still around today?
Speaker 1:Yes, supermamame, if you actually see it me, there you go, you can check it out. Middle East Moms.
Speaker 2:Okay, and you said that they were really pushing for content. You were pushing for services. It turns out content was the right way to go. In hindsight.
Speaker 1:Content went well up to a point, but you couldn't only monetize on content and I'm still behind that, like Even today, even if you look at all the content players. Everybody's pushing for subscription now. So like the idea of just content and advertising was not sustainable.
Speaker 2:What was your idea?
Speaker 1:I wanted to push into commerce.
Speaker 2:Okay, commerce for mothers Right Like prams buggies baby calls, so like advertisement fees pushing certain brands, so like if a pram was advertising.
Speaker 1:I actually wanted to build a store. Oh really, yeah, yeah, yeah, wow, yeah, and and work on commission like, yeah it, it wasn't that difficult. But I mean it doesn't have to even be brand new. It could could have been a marketplace with yeah exchanges we had the community. People were asking for it, people were asking us for recommendations that's so interesting once you have the community.
Speaker 2:All the different ways. Please take a sip for people listening. We do have coffee cups on the table yes, I mean keeps edging towards uh, grabbing one.
Speaker 1:This is hot chocolate. Okay, perfect for winter.
Speaker 2:There you go yeah, community building and then looking for ways of monetizing that. Because mumsnet in the uk last I heard about them, I believe they were thinking of launching a digital bank with their community, which is. I think once you have the community, then you're set to go yeah, that's so interesting, right, and their whole thing very similar to Deja in a way exactly, and that it was like okay, well, mothers have very specific needs when it comes to financial services.
Speaker 2:They have very different requirements from purchases long-term thinking. Because they're thinking about their children, they can actually be very good and very credit-worthy bank customers.
Speaker 1:Perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very interesting. So I don't know whether Supermama can still be in the picture with DJ in the future, but it's something we can come up with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, you never know right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you moved away from Supermama.
Speaker 1:You founded Cushiesies, which I believe was a textile design company no, it wasn't text or textile, sorry, because I have a thing about helping communities and helping people. I can do something. That's just commerce, right? Um, I need something with a bigger purpose. I I'm one of those random people that want to change the world with everything I do, so I go into difficult choices. So we worked with Undiscovered Artists.
Speaker 1:They designed custom designs which we use to digitize print on fabric and then work with non-government organizations that support women and children to create those into products like cushions and squishies, laptop sleeves, tote bags, tablecloth, accessories for home, gifts and so forth. Incredible. So think about it this way what's it called Kit-Kits-Ten with a purpose?
Speaker 2:In a way, okay, yeah, I've seen similar initiatives now for the Palestine movement People trying to do that.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think we were ahead of our time. I think so, if this had lasted a few more years, we would have aced it, but life right.
Speaker 2:So what happened?
Speaker 1:Two things Horrible co-founder.
Speaker 2:Really yeah. How did you meet him? Crisis.
Speaker 1:So this is also one of the hardest things that happened in my life. He was my brother-in-law's best friend. Oh no. And that created family drama because everybody blamed me, because I was vocal about it, despite people. You know the tricks from underneath.
Speaker 2:Yes, the family politics Okay, fine.
Speaker 1:So that's.
Speaker 2:I guess one of the lessons about perhaps not founding a company with family or family adjacent, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I think. I think the lesson was to look more beyond words. I I knew I was bad at sales. Uh, I wanted someone again. This was physical products. I wanted someone who was good at sales. He sold himself too well. Uh he's one of those people that talk too well but do too little, and as a founder that that uh, I'm sure you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean look, I founded a startup with family right, so that was with my father and my friend from MBA school and you know it leads to a lot of clashes, but I think the idea there are benefits. I'm a big advocate for founding something with family because at the end of the day you have to make up.
Speaker 1:I don't know how I feel about this I have mixed feelings. So again with my first startup, yusra. My youngest sister came as an intern, built her way through to cmo and wow. And she, she is phenomenal and I'm not just saying that because she's my sister, you can ask anyone who's worked with her. Yusra is phenomenal. But then we co-founded cushis together, so Yusra was the third co-founder and I think it was harder for her than either either the other two be like me or a guy, because she was put in the middle her husband, her husband's best friend, her husband's best friend, right okay?
Speaker 1:um, I would work with Yusra any given day. I'd I'm begging her to come work with me in Dijon, but for her she's I can't do this anymore. So I think different people look at it differently. I think you trust your family. You know where their strengths are. Potentially, because I'm the older sister as well, I technically raised her.
Speaker 2:Is there a large age gap between you two? Yeah, 11 years years. Oh, no way. So yeah, so with my youngest brother it's a 12 year, 12 year. So you know what I mean you've.
Speaker 1:You've affected their like you know their personality growing up. You know like you know everything about them and like between my brother and my sister, honestly I trust any like either of them. My brother I wouldn't work with. We have the same personality so we clash a lot.
Speaker 2:Uh, my sister compliments me but again, you can't force someone into a partnership yes, of course, of course, gosh, okay, so two very different experiences at different startups yeah and that brings us to today. So this was all in egypt yes, this was all in egypt, you found yourself coming back to the uk so what happened was 2019 um end of 2019.
Speaker 1:cash and bank super mama, alhamdulillah um kushi's end of 2019, cash and bank super mama, alhamdulillah, masha'allah Kushis end of 2019, it was clear that it's heading to liquidation. We liquidated in 2020, but it was clear and there was the point of what next. I was completely burnt out.
Speaker 1:I just mentioned what happened with super mama, and then I was clear about liquidation. So that was emotionally draining as well, and there was the whole point of what do I do with the rest of my life? Right, this phase the late 2019, early 2020 was pivotal to me in a lot of things. First of all, it got me to think about money, which is why DJ happens eventually. But I thought and here's the second accident I never want to be in startups again.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought this is just too hard. I'm too drained, I'm too fragile, but then, having gone through what I've gone through with Supermama is not neurotypical. Nobody gets threatened, nobody gets a lawsuit letter sent to their home, nobody. These things don't happen to most people, so it was a bit hard.
Speaker 2:I mean, it has happened to a few people who've actually been on the show actually. But yeah, it's a bad one if that does end up happening.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think it was difficult and I thought I needed a break, like in my head, you know, let me just find someone to employ me for, if my skills are employable at all, pay me a bit of money where I don't have to worry about feeding other people that care about me. For a while At this point I thought Egypt is too small. I mean, it's not too small, but it is too small in a sense. So I thought of moving out. I had the conversation with my parents. Uh, my parents are I'd say we're a religious family, but not too conservative if it makes any sense. So we stick by the rules but, we're okay like I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm a single woman living on my own so if it makes any sense, like and the conversation was like well, we're okay with somewhere where you can come when you need it. So for me it was like a five hour radius from egypt, somewhere I speak the language, somewhere where either entrepreneurship or corporate innovation is in the scene. So it was, I think, at that point between dubai and the uk yeah, gcc and uk.
Speaker 1:That's pretty much it, yeah okay, so it was then about lifestyle. What do I want going forward? Right, do I want to get into the luxury cars and get more fancy bags and fancy brands, and you know. And then when I get older, like the parents of my friends who did this in the 70s- and move to the gcc.
Speaker 1:You make a lot of money and you're no longer employed, so you can't stay in the gcc and you need to go home and you're no longer able to live given the circumstances. Or do I take the middle-class option in the UK, live a decent life and potentially get a nationality?
Speaker 2:Gosh okay.
Speaker 1:Which is something the British don't think about, but we Arabs do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's what brought you here. Yeah, so it sounds like you're completely burned out. You didn't want to do another startup, and then DJ and then no, and then city Deloitte entrepreneur okay, okay, so there's a lot. Yeah, so you went to work at Citibank.
Speaker 1:I went to work at Citibank as an innovation strategist, so basically I it was a very interesting job because I was working with the different departments in the bank, the different clients in the bank, the different clients of the bank and the different technologies up and coming technologies to find problems worth solving. So once we've identified those problems, we're solving. It was about scouting the market for fintechs that will solve those problems. Oh, okay, so this was my first exposure to number one, financial services, number two to fintechs.
Speaker 2:In the UK.
Speaker 1:In the world, oh in the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because cities, Of course, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So that was magnificent. But, as with all corporate innovation jobs, it's only periodic, it's never a long-term thing. So I stayed there for I think, 18 months, 19 months, then change of management, so I left. I then joined Deloitte Digital, where I was pretty much doing the same, but for different clients, again mostly in financial services, so Barclays, natwest, visa, aviva, hsbc. It was very interesting Along the way I had been introduced to the entrepreneurship center at the Saeed Business School University of Oxford. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1:And I became an entrepreneurship expert. So the first year I mentored, like startups when they reached out. The second year I tutored, basically helping MBA students with their entrepreneurship projects. And the third year last year I actually taught.
Speaker 1:Nice I actually gave a lecture, incredible Lectures about entrepreneurship, wow. And then the itch Okay, it came back Right, like how am I helping everybody with their fight, like you know, with their entrepreneurship projects? And I was doing this corporate job, you know, and the fire started again, and the need started again, and then the dj started happening in my head so that was the inspiration.
Speaker 2:You were immersed in this world of startups. You'd almost gone through like a crash course of learning about the UK fintech scene, fintechs in general, and you thought let me try and solve a problem.
Speaker 1:It was actually the other way around. Like I, I learned about the financial world not fintech necessarily, because let me go back a step. So I come from a background where we just don't talk about money. Like my dad is so conservative that all the money is in the bank, Like it's. It's how we like this is like when I actually had some exit money and needed to do something with it, I really had no clue what to do with it. As in really.
Speaker 1:I and women do not talk about money. I'm sure other people on the podcast have said that we don't talk about money. We don't talk to each other about money. So I had this money and I had sort of amina towards Allah that I need to do something useful with my money, otherwise it goes to waste right. So in my head, this and I was very keen on Sharia compliance, whereas a lot of Egyptians aren't so in a way, I was like I could not find anything that suited me and at the time hence I was saying the end of 2019, 2020, it was very important to me because at the time, one of my friends had a severance package and left a good job.
Speaker 1:Another friend had a bit of money I think it was inheritance. Another friend had a bit of money I think it was inheritance and I can't even recall who started the conversation. But someone threw it wasn't me someone threw the word like, what do you do with the money? Like, so what are you doing? Like, yasmin, you had a bit of you're having a bit of an exit money. What are you doing with it? And I said I don't know, let's think. And we started together thinking. One said said oh, my sister works at this private equity company and they have something with smaller tickets and it's all charity compliant. Let's talk to them. And then someone said, well, real estate is essential. And I said we know what.
Speaker 1:I come from a startup background and I like businesses, so I'd like to keep some on the side to you know an angel, invest or support my friends businesses, even if they're not startups, and we built together an excel sheet that then we found was with other people in Egypt, because people would give it to each other, because women do not talk about money.
Speaker 2:Is it a woman issue or is it, do you think, culturally? In certain countries, people I mean people in this country. Don't talk about money, you know is it a Egypt-wide thing, an Arab world thing, a Muslim world thing?
Speaker 1:I think it's a cross between Arab and Muslim.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So I think Muslims are not good at talking about money. I mean, we're changing it, but history has it this way. Arabs are not good at talking about money and with Arabs, specifically, and with women, comes the whole stigma of we don't want to hasad. You know, you don't want people to look at you, oh, and give you the evil eye and you lose your money. Or the opposite. You don't want people thinking you're showing off. Yes.
Speaker 1:So you don't talk about like, which is I respect tradition, I respect culture and I respect the roots of everything in Islam. However, this is actually holding us back, because what we don't talk about, we have no clue what's going on, so we're always behind. At Deloitte, when I actually joined as a senior manager, I was asked to fill in my investments.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I had no investments, Like cause everything overseas doesn't count, but like I had no investments and everybody had investments and I felt something is wrong. But this started me, like this pushed me to have a conversation with other senior managers around me because I felt something was missing. So this culture needs to be, you know, this needs to be in all Muslim households.
Speaker 2:It's so interesting because you even mentioned your father, who Marshall is incredibly educated. He's a doctor. Your mother was a doctor. Who Marshall is incredibly educated he's a doctor. Your mother was a doctor and despite the education, it's like this cultural barrier still existed where he didn't feel comfortable talking about money. I guess it's not something you ever spoke about growing up.
Speaker 1:No, like honestly, the first time we've had a conversation about money was around the time I had my exit money. Well, he said your brother got married. I gave him this much. Your sister got married, I gave her this much. You haven't got married. This is your money, put it with your money and do the rest of it. So this was the only conversation about money we've ever had.
Speaker 2:But you were well into your adult years at that point.
Speaker 1:I was 39. Wow, okay 38, sorry, okay, but like at 38,. This is the first conversation you have about money.
Speaker 2:What is it right? Why is the question? Why is that always out there? Why do Muslim women have a problem with money?
Speaker 1:I think the problem is we never talked about it, and it doesn't have to necessarily be a bad thing. It was what it was back in the day. Let's change it. Like while I'd love to get into the deep roots of it, I think that needs an anthropologist. Like while I'd love to get into the deep roots of it, I think that needs an anthropologist. I'd rather we change it with the changes that are happening in our Muslim society. Okay, so like maybe back in the day they stayed at home, the man used to marry multiple wives. They got married very young. They never had their education, whatever it was.
Speaker 1:Today we're in the workplace, we're working on our own, we're living on our own, we're paying bills, we're paying taxes, we're looking at making sure we have a pension. So really, we need to talk about money. Things have changed, regardless of how they started. Right now, the situation is we need to talk about money. We need to know what we owe and what we're owed. We need to know if, like, in all honesty, I wasted so much money all through my life because I never thought I needed to save or invest whatever came in saved for a few months, go on a trip and splurge everything. That was how I lived. I lived with my dad. I never needed to pay rent, which I assuming applies to a lot of muslims right, yeah like I didn't need to pay rent.
Speaker 1:All I felt like, oh, I've got my extra bit. But I never thought of myself today, in my 40s, needed to think of the future. I don't even know if I'll be in this country or if I go back to. I mean, had I thought about this in my 20s and put £100 every month in some sort of investment account, I would have been in a completely different place.
Speaker 2:It's scary to think about, isn't it? I know so a very personal problem that you were coming across and you realized you had experienced your whole life. So what is Deja?
Speaker 1:Deja, and, as you can see, I'm already smiling thinking about it, because it is the solution to everything. So, deja, the name comes from Sayyida Khadija bin Khawailat, the wife of the Prophet, because, come to think of it, sayyida Khadija was the first angel investor.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:In a sense she invested in the Prophet. She provided the kind of support and advice and everything that he needed to go do his yes, his trade missions Effectively.
Speaker 2:she was financing different trade missions and caravan routes around the Middle East at that point.
Speaker 1:So in a way it kind of feels embarrassing that when we look for role models, we start looking oh dear Google, what are names of inspiring women in finance so that I can name my startup after when we have Sayyida Khadija right? So, this is where it comes from and obviously Dija is the short version. It's the Egyptian way of saying the nickname.
Speaker 1:It's like Mohamed and Mo, but in a way it's easy to spell. No spelling mistakes when you're downloading the app. You can't get it wrong. It's kind of pronounceable in almost all languages I've heard. So that's where the name comes from and the idea is basically to help women talk about money, build financial confidence and take the first step towards investing.
Speaker 2:So is this an evolution of that Google sheet that you and your friends had made?
Speaker 1:I would like to think that, but if I said so, then I'm being very selfish and ignoring the amazing input that I have heard from everyone. I spoke to Everybody that I spoke to helped shape Deidre to where we wanted to go. It started with the Excel sheet. It started with me thinking that every woman needs some sort of Excel sheet, but then not everybody's me, not everybody's an Excel sheet freak, right, right. Some people just want a simpler version and this is how, like this, like my co-founder god bless him, he gave in a lot of thought, he's put in his input um, we've, uh, potentially spoke to two people who helped shape the um, the product, but did not end up being co-founders, who also had major input in what we're building. So it's bigger than the Excel sheet, I'd like to say so what is Deja today?
Speaker 2:It's an app.
Speaker 1:Today, Deja is a mobile app that has two out of three things that we see Deja becoming. So the two things that we have now are basic financial education in a very simplified, action-oriented way to teach you how to save and spend and invest.
Speaker 1:It's targeted for women, it's rooted in Islam, but anyone, muslim or non-Muslim, can use it and benefit from it. It is intended for people with short attention span, because all of us now can't stay focused for too long. So you get the carousel-like content views, you get the two-minute videos, you get the short form. Basically, the second part and this is something that we've just launched last week is the community aspect, so you can go ask questions, respond, talk to people, share your achievements and, in response to the whole oh, I don't want to talk to people about money so that they don't think I'm, you know, giving them hasad or you know showing off.
Speaker 1:We actually allowed the anonymous feature inspired by things like last door when if you're anonymous, you get to speak freely, and this was a request when we did user interviews and focus groups, and what's missing is over the next few months, we want to facilitate the woman's journey from basically understanding about finance all the way to investing, and we're not necessarily keen on one type of investing. We're not saying, go public market, go private market, go VC, go crypto. We're not saying that. What we're trying to do is provide information that help her make those decisions and eventually partner with others to bring in something. Pretty much what the crystals do is bring in the different financial opportunities that are sharia compliant inside the apps the woman can take yeah, it's very similar actually with us in that we are focused on muslims in general.
Speaker 2:You're focused on muslim women. I think the other differences are that you have a big education part of your app, so it's almost like it's reminding me of um nia, which shanaz is yes um great quran learning app. He was on, he was on the podcast a few weeks ago, or like a duolingo, but for financial services or sharia compliant financial services plus the community talking part.
Speaker 1:That's very interesting, and also the focus on starting market. I think all of us want to serve the entire muslim umma, but you've started from users in UK. I started from users in Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2:Tell me about that. So why Saudi?
Speaker 1:Okay, numbers pretty much numbers. So if I wanted to look at Muslim women on the workforce in the UK, we're talking 300,000.
Speaker 2:If that yeah.
Speaker 1:If at all Saudi we're talking 6.1 million.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and most of them newly entered yes.
Speaker 1:So, in like with the vision 2030, saudi's changing women are being so empowered and so keen on becoming part of the change that they are doing everything in their power. Like you talk to a saudi woman, it's like I want to invest. Do you even know what investment is? I want to invest and grow my money. I want to take my money. Bless them. They. What investment is? I want to invest and grow my money. I want to take charge of my money. Bless them. They've been suppressed for a while and they're so smart and so like. I mean I can't even count the number of PhDs that I've met in the last month among women. Right, mashallah, they are amazing and now they have the opportunity to take charge of the country and do things so interesting.
Speaker 2:It's not just lip service, because a lot of people are like, oh, let's just put women in the workplace, but every company that I've been to visit in Saudi Arabia I've been there three times in- the last year. There's just women front and center in very senior positions, decision-making positions, very well-educated, speaking multiple languages, like you say PhDs, masters, whatever.
Speaker 1:And these have been people who have been studying and working abroad and now found the opportunity to go give back to their country To come back, so they do.
Speaker 2:Wow, so you've incorporated in Saudi.
Speaker 1:No, actually, oddly, we are a Delaware company.
Speaker 2:Oh, are you? Okay, that's not odd.
Speaker 1:No, I mean because I'm living in the UK and we're working in Saudi, but now we are in the process of incorporating in Saudi.
Speaker 2:Incredible. So for people who don't know, a Delaware company is the most common form of US company that is incorporated just because I think the startup laws and the laws for businesses are most agreeable for those which are incorporated in Delaware. So most Silicon Valley companies are Delaware companies, everyone says anyone who wants to do anything in America become a Delaware incorporated company, um, but now you're looking to incorporate in Saudi?
Speaker 1:starting that process. Yes, uh, we we're. We we're actually in the middle of the process. It's, it's, it's a couple of months long process yeah, we're literally doing the same high five same.
Speaker 2:Right now are you going through pif or?
Speaker 1:uh, no, we're going through an agent an agent like um accelerator. Happy to make interest if you want yeah, that'd be very, very interesting yeah, just shortcuts yeah, that would be good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we're talking with pif, which is the big sovereign wealth fund. They have their own like routine um, which they've really been pushing.
Speaker 1:We met them when we were in real last time um, so yeah, we'll be good to have a chance offline. I'll give you. I mean, we're obviously happy to share with the audience, if anyone has any questions, of course, of course, about it I'll give you three names okay, okay, oh, afterwards, yeah, yeah, we can do that.
Speaker 2:Do you want me to say it now? Yeah, why not? Why not?
Speaker 1:so there's blossom accelerator, which they have, their path and they they have the whole process priced and everything. And they do it in approximately three months. There is Astrolabs which have the same thing.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And then there is Tawarif, so it's written T-W-A-R-E-F. I think. Okay. And they all have this process, which they call Saudi landing, and it is meant for startups and the benefit of that I mean. Honestly, the government is taking strides over there. They are doing a specific license for startups so that you forego a lot of the legwork needed for typical companies to incorporate, so there's less financial requirement. You get a discounted Ministry of Investment license for five years, Like it's made for startups. Right, okay, they're basically competing with Abu Dhabi and Dubai.
Speaker 2:Yes, so that's why I wanted to ask, because it seemed very expensive to incorporate in Saudi.
Speaker 1:See, you're going the wrong route.
Speaker 2:Because, like in Dubai, you could do it for maybe 3,000 to 5,000 USD. You could incorporate and set up. I think Bahrain was even way cheaper than that, maybe like $500.
Speaker 1:No, it's slightly more expensive. The quotes I have were expect 10 as fees to the agent that you work with and 10 in terms of requirements.
Speaker 2:Okay, fine.
Speaker 1:So, realistically speaking, no, it's more expensive than that. But I assume if you go with the ADGM, the Abu Dhabi one, you would still need another 10 on top of the five in terms of fees. Like you know, pay this license, pay this comma, pay this blah, blah, blah Sure sure, sure, okay, very interesting to swap notes on that. We should definitely talk about that more.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I definitely see the opportunity in Saudi when I'm there. It just seems like a real buzz. And environment and 2030, I know there's like a lot of things which maybe won't work out, like the big Neon line project and all of that, but they had a target for financial services to incorporate, I think, 500 new fintechs by 2030. I think they've already crossed that I think so by now. So a lot of them are going to die, but they're very.
Speaker 1:But that's normal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very, very normal, but they're very open to bringing in people from the outside. Um, and you know, when we were there, we won this 24 fintech award which, yeah, I never thought like a non-southie company would be able to they're doing a good job to do that. So, yeah, alhamdulillah, very interesting. So shout out to fintech saudi.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all that yeah, but in all honesty, I think they're doing an amazing job and women there feel so empowered. Again, we're talking about exceeding numbers. The target was reaching 30 percent employment on the workforce by 2030. They're now at 39 percent. Wow. So basically in the last five years, 20 percent of the entire workforce are women. New to work gosh, not knowing what to do with their tax-free money have you spoken to anyone on the ground?
Speaker 2:like culturally?
Speaker 1:is that not just a real shock to the system of, like the previous male workers and you, you, you hear everything right, like I was in a taxi and the guy was saying so. Now it's easier for my wife to find a job than for me to find work. Yes, but then I honestly have have not seen a lack of job opportunities in saudi at all yeah it's just opening. There's so much work on all fronts sure women are, of course, like I mentioned, amazing.
Speaker 1:Women are coming back to the country, trying to give, trying to build, trying to establish themselves. Um, a lot of women are being supported by leadership training in order to reach higher positions in the government. So it's, it's only something to admire I mean it feels weird for me as an egyptian to talk about saudi this way, but honestly it is impressive I mean, those saudi taxi conversations are very interesting.
Speaker 2:There's one guy who was driving me around. He would say he's worried his wife's gonna run away now. It's way easier for her to do that, I think it's normal, right, I think it's normal.
Speaker 1:Every like with change, you get pros and supporters and, yeah, who dislike it. And the taxi conversations and all honestly, like there was a guy that technically was going to throw me out of the country before taking me to the airport. Everybody else was amazing.
Speaker 2:So okay, gosh, we'll have to get into that some other time. So what's next for dj you're going to launch in saudi?
Speaker 1:we are launched. So so we've launched our mvp in 20 september. We're adding features as we go, we're building and we're growing in saudi. The benefit of building our own um presence like a physical company is um it'll be easier to get contracts, get uh yeah to hire more there, because now we're working on freelance basis how many people are at dj now, freelance or freelance? Slash, part-time slash.
Speaker 1:I think we're 12 12 okay so yeah gosh between here, saudi egypt so I'm here, my co-founders in seattle, um, we have some of the research. So research and content creation and marketing are split between Saudi and Egypt Tech. We have someone in Egypt, someone in the US and we work with a team in Croatia.
Speaker 2:So we're remote and global as should be right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean we're the same between UK and Malaysia. Yeah, just UK and Malaysia right now. That's not bad at all, should be right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean we're the same between uk malaysia. Yeah, just uk malaysia right now.
Speaker 1:That's not. That's not yeah coming.
Speaker 2:So I always ask this to the entrepreneurs on this but what are the? We talked about some of the lessons that you've learned, but let's talk about, I guess, the lessons learned that you're now applying to dj, because you mentioned a co-founder in seattle. Were you scared of working with someone again, given your experience at Cushies?
Speaker 1:Yes, it's a painful experience to have to go through, but I believe we have a saying in Egyptian you can't clap with one hand. So for you to build something successful, you need someone to lean on and depend on and someone to push you through and pull you up when you're feeling down. So the whole solo entrepreneur thing is just not for me. Bless them who can? I can't.
Speaker 1:hazem and I, we we studied computer science at at uni, in uni oh, really in undergrad okay we've not stayed in touch since, but when I left deloitte I put a message on linkedin and and bless linkedin right for connecting us. Where I said I left deloitte, I'm looking into the space of female financial empowerment, middle East, islamic FinTech. Anybody who's interested, get in touch. So two people I mean a lot of people got in touch. I've got so good input, like it was alhamdulillah, alhamdulillah, phenomenal. This post, just it shows you the power of network.
Speaker 1:But, two things were key. Haizam got in touch and he's like you know. I've been working in finance for a while, in fintech for a while. Let's have a conversation and he's a brilliant cto like. His cv is impressive. Uh, amazon microsoft crypto remedy is part of the team who were there when the ipo happened and then worked in trade with ninja trader, which was the trading day trading platform. So I mean, seriously, he's left us to build something with me.
Speaker 2:That's incredible.
Speaker 1:I know, but also one of our first angel investors reached out. He was one of my team leaders when I was quite junior and he said I've always admired what you do. I followed you with Supermama let's see what we, what you're building and how I can support conversations. And he made introductions and after those introductions he's like I'd like to be part of this.
Speaker 2:Okay so, and there's full credit to the network and the community that you built then. So what are your biggest takes? And, as someone who's created a successful startup that you then exited or built around community, what is that?
Speaker 1:Because so many people try to bottle that magic right, like to create that community. How are you doing that now at DJ? How have you done it before successfully? I think there are two different communities. So you have the, you have the product community or your project community, and then you have your own personal community, and while I am impressed with people who are able to merge both, I don't think this has happened for me yet. I would like it to, but I believe that genuinely being there for people and being supportive and offering help and going out of your way to offer opens every door. Subhanallah, but, like you and I met at the muslim ceo dinner yes where you thought I was competition and were reluctant to talk to me.
Speaker 2:However, is that what happened? A little bit, yeah, a little bit I try to assure you we're not competition.
Speaker 1:By the way, I'm really, I'm really a nice person look, look at this now.
Speaker 2:right, we're having hot chocolate. Yeah, I think I had my back up a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe People usually have this with me. I think I'm too forward, I scare people off. But I think you can easily tell that I'm genuine and I think I can easily tell that you're genuine and people like us. When we go out of our way to help people like I, tell people you don't have to put the whole highest mean how are you doing Long time? No see, If you need something, ask me. If it's in my power, I'll do it. I'll go out of my way. You know, and because of that, SubhanAllah, God gives it to you right, Allah gives it to you. Like you go one step, Allah gives you two. And it's doing something with the proper Naya. And for me, this is why, for example, things like this, things like the Muslim CEO dinner, things like meeting other people who have Naya as part of what we're doing, like saying we're doing something with Sharia compliant or we're doing something for the Muslims, it just reminds you of what you're doing and with Naya, you know it's just open stores.
Speaker 2:Yeah, subhanallah, wow, gosh. Well, we're running a little short on time, but I want to ask you it's fine, it's been a great conversation, um, but in terms of legacy and what you want to leave behind, have you thought about that? Is, dj, what you want to? You know how you want to finish everything off, or if you're hitting on the tight spot right now.
Speaker 1:The thing is, I believe I don't know if it will end at Deja or something else will come afterwards, but I would like I never had a female role model growing up, and the more I move in life, the more I move further away from the traditional examples that were put in front of me, and I find that the newer generation growing up are no longer satisfied with the traditional examples and I would like, when whatever legacy I leave is for people to look and say you know what? This is, someone I respect and I want to copy her model. So it's a big responsibility. It's big dreams, big ambitions. I don't know if I'm going to be able to do that, but I mean, it's been said here first, when you watch my biography later on in life, Eddie would be the first who heard this answer.
Speaker 2:Mashallah, you're already inspiring a lot of people. There are a lot of people, there are a lot of people who already quote you and talk about you. Mashallah, I think I first heard about you when you were on stage at Muslim Tech Fest last year. Yeah, so that was amazing. I'm sure there's a lot of people who are already looking out for you and following you.
Speaker 1:Alhamdulillah, it's again. It's a goal, but it's a responsibility and if I want to do that, that it makes me look at everything I do, even on a personal level sometimes, and assess whether I'm going in the right direction.
Speaker 2:Okay, amazing. Well, yasmeen, thank you so, so much for your time. Inshallah, next time I see you we'll be in Riyadh.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, maybe you'll send a follow-up podcast. Yeah, maybe.
Speaker 2:So if anyone wants to get in touch with you, how can they do that?
Speaker 1:LinkedIn. I answer 95% of emails that I get, unless you're spam or you're unclear. Just tell me what you want. I'll try my best to answer you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great pro tip for anyone called calling or called emailing. Just get to the point of what it is. And just write that in your intro email, don't just say like hi, how are you doing? And then just wait a few days and then say, hi, how are you doing again no.
Speaker 1:And then there are those people that tell you hi, I need your opinion and something just give it all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just put it in the first two lines yeah, exactly, I'm happy to answer.
Speaker 1:I'll go out of my way, I promise, but just make it easier for me to get to you and if people want to find out more about dj the website dj money. The app is on the app store, available in arabic English, the IJA, and follow me for news there you go alright.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. Assalamualaikum, waalaikumussalam, wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh thank you for listening to the Muslim Money Talk podcast. If you like what you heard, then please subscribe to Muslim Money Talk. Wherever you might have been listening to this, give us a like and share it with someone who you think might be interested. It really, really helps us out. Thank you, asalaamu Alaikum, and see you next time.