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Muslim Money Talk
British Australian Doctor EXPOSES What He Saw in Gaza | Dr Mohammed Mustafa Ep 54.
Dr. Mohammed Mustafa, a British-Australian-Palestinian doctor, recounts his harrowing experiences in Gaza, describing the humanitarian catastrophe, targeted destruction of healthcare workers, and his mission to establish a mobile, internationally staffed hospital to save children and rebuild medical infrastructure. He urges collective action, emphasising that every person can contribute to Gaza’s recovery beyond just seeking a ceasefire.
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Show Notes:
00:00 - Opening
06:41 – His motivation to become a doctor and commitment to serving in crisis zones
08:43 – Firsthand account of Gaza’s conditions, lack of resources, and constant danger
13:10 – Going viral while in Gaza; using social media to humanise Palestinians
14:20 – Family’s reaction to his mission; personal encounters with relatives in hospitals.
23:37 – The humanitarian crisis for Gaza’s children and risk of losing a generation.
25:54 – Proposal for mobile, solar-powered hospitals to rebuild healthcare.
31:29 – Navigating politics and risk to push the hospital project forward.
41:37 – Call for global grassroots action; everyone has a role to play
We're watching the endgame of a genocide here in 4K. You know they're funneling people into cages and just mowing them down with guns. Israeli soldiers have admitted on Israeli media that they shoot civilians for fun. They kill them for fun while they're queuing up for food. And I just remembered, like if I was going to die bagging and masking someone or managing their airway to another hospital, it's a good way to go out. It's a good way to go out way to go.
Speaker 1:It's a good way to go out, and you know what's crazy is? I'm just a doctor. You know, doctors and healthcare workers in gaza make up 0.7 percent of the population, right, but they make up eight percent of the dead. For me, I don't care if they call the hospital benjamin netanyahu's pediatric hospital. I don't care who gets to cut the ribbon, I don't care if it's Donald Trump, I don't care if it's Joe Biden, I don't care. I just want these kids to stop dying. Look, if there is not a international effort, we're going to lose a whole generation of kids.
Speaker 3:Before we begin, we notice only about 20% of you are subscribed to the podcast. So if you like what you're listening to and you want to hear more from us, then please consider subscribing, liking, sharing or leaving us a comment or a review wherever you are listening to this, because it really does help people to find us. Thank you, and back to the show to find us. Thank you, and back to the show. Today's episode is a slight departure from our usual content on money and finances, but the reason couldn't be more important. My guest today is Dr Mohamed Mustafa, a British-Australian-Palestinian doctor who has recently returned from Gaza after witnessing what he has described as apocalyptic scenes. We'll be diving into what he saw, how he's dealt with it and, crucially, what solutions really exist that could help civilians on the ground.
Speaker 3:Today, as always, I'm your host, areeb Siddiqui, and this is Muslim Money Talk, dr Mohammed. Assalamu alaikum and welcome to the show. Wa alaikum assalam. Thank you so much for having me. No, no, thank you for coming on. I mean, you've been on some massive shows recently. I feel like I don't really know where you're finding the time to be doing all of this.
Speaker 1:I don't sleep very often.
Speaker 3:Alhamdulillah. So you were from the UK. I think you spent most of your childhood here in the UK, but right now you're living in Australia, so this is a bit of a flying visit for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean it's a bit of a flying visit. I've been here for a few weeks now, but you know, I was born in Mecca, oh, wow. And then, when I was four years old, I moved to the UK and I grew up in the UK, okay, I grew up in, you know. I grew up mainly moving around in the Northeast, but I grew up in Middlesbrough, okay, and then I went to university in Liverpool and then from there I worked in Glasgow in Scotland for a couple of years and then I moved to Australia where I've been working and living there for the last eight years.
Speaker 3:Real mix match of accents.
Speaker 1:I guess, yeah, it is. I don't even know what it is anymore.
Speaker 3:Pretty, neutral, pretty neutral. Before we get into it, I'd love to know, because I see on your, your social handles. You're often described as the beast from the middle east. Yeah, where did you pick up that nickname?
Speaker 1:I mean, look, I had a lot of nicknames back in the day, but, um, you know, I used to play professional rugby. I? Um was always quite athletic and sporty and one of the things was was, when you give me the ball in rugby, I used to run and I used to just knock people over what were you?
Speaker 1:prop. Yeah, I was a prop, yeah, so, um, that was my thing. I was just pretty much like a bulldozer, so I got nicknamed from that the beast from the middle east and then I made that. You know, because this is back in the day at university, you know instagram came out. You know people started using it a lot when I was in my second, third year at uni.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:You know, that's when I got Instagram and I just made the handle the Beast from the Middle East and it just stuck. And then, when I was in Gaza, it was the Beast from the Middle East.
Speaker 1:And you know, things started to go viral when I was in Gaza and when things started to go viral, I was like, oh my God, how are people going to take me seriously? Started to go viral. I was like, oh my god, it's the. How are people going to take me seriously? I'm a doctor called the beast from the middle east and thinking, but I actually think, like subhanallah, it's all worked out for the best, because everybody now is like, oh yeah, that's the beast it's a very memorable handle it's a memorable handle, but that that was my nickname back when I played rugby.
Speaker 1:You know that was what I was using guitar. I'm quite a big guy, so you know I mean it fits, I think we've given you the widest frame that we have had for a guest so far so alhamdulillah. So I think that's good.
Speaker 3:I don't know how you'll take this, but would you describe yourself as a refugee?
Speaker 1:I'm a man of the world, I would say right now. Yeah, you know, I was born in Mecca. My father was born in Gaza, my mum born in Jordan. Palestinian refugees both of them I'm a refugee moved over to the UK, you know, moved around a lot in the UK but primarily was in Middlesbrough, then went to uni in Liverpool, then lived in Glasgow, then moved to Australia and in Australia I've moved all around Australia and now I'm an Australian citizen. I'm a.
Speaker 1:British citizen, my mum's a Jordanian citizen. You know, like I have just so many facets to who I am. But you know, look, I think ultimately I'm just me Labels, and you know where I'm from and things like that. It doesn't really matter too much to me. You know I am from Gaza, I'm a Gazawi. You know I'm from and things like that. It doesn't really matter too much to me. You know I am from Gaza, I'm a Gazawi. You know I'm Palestinian. I'm very proud of where I'm from, but, um, you know, I like to see myself, as you know, I'm a Palestinian, but I love, I love Greggs. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:I love, uh, tim Tams, which is the, the little biscuits that you, it's like the Australian version of a penguin yeah, yeah, pretty much a lot tastier, um, but you know, like I, I'm just, you know, all of them are part of my identity, you know I am a refugee.
Speaker 1:when it boils down to it, I was a refugee. But you know, I've grown up in the uk. Some of my best friends are british white, british people and I have friends of all different backgrounds and all different faiths. My religion is very important to me. I pray my five prayers a day, I fast, I do all of those things. So you know, I think you know there's like this box that we all try to put ourselves into, but I don't think really I fit into any boxes. I'm just me.
Speaker 3:Which I think is why you're so you do so well on media. Because, I think, is why you do so well on media, because I think a lot of people can relate to you, because you've picked up all of these different experiences. Yeah, and I think it's also credit to your parents and your father, because I'm British, pakistani, but I don't feel like I have that much of a tie to my home country whereas with you and, I notice, with a lot of people from Palestine, especially Gaza.
Speaker 3:Wherever they've been through in the world, they could be second, third, fourth generation. They never seem to lose that bond with their home, with their motherland. Um, do you think that's why you became a doctor? To emulate what your father did? He was a doctor himself, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1:there's multiple reasons. One, obviously. There's the whole Asian thing of you've got to be a doctor. You know what?
Speaker 3:I, I mean, you guys have that as well. Yeah, oh, mate.
Speaker 1:You know, you're either a doctor, an engineer or a disgrace. Those are the three.
Speaker 1:I think lawyer falls in there, you know even that is a bit shaky grounds, but you know, look, there was obviously a bit of pressure to be, you know, highly educated in the household, but I was also playing sports at the same time, so I had focus on multiple different areas. But you know, ultimately at the end of the day it was being a doctor isn't a job, it's not a career for me, it's a vocation. Like this isn't a man from a law, this is a trust. You have people's lives in your hands. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Sometimes, when I'd study, when I'd be working late and I'd be studying and stuff, and I didn't want to say study, say I wanted to just go do something else, put on some Netflix or play my phone, I'd always just remind myself and say someone's life could be under your hand. This little bit of knowledge could be the thing that saves their life. So focus a little bit more. And that's just the way I've always taken. I've always taken it as this is an amenah.
Speaker 1:This job, you know, to be a doctor is a very, very high position and I've always just felt that way and that's why, you know, I've I don't know subhanAllah, like when I went to Ghazal and stuff. It was the same thing Like I would not rest, I would always be working. When I was in Ghazal, I was ill, I had the fubar, I'd still to work. I would sleep in my um in my scrubs, just in case anything happened. I was awake and ready to go. I would stay in the a and e department all night, go upstairs to my room and sleep at like five o'clock in the morning and be back down at nine like but when you were doing all of this yeah, did you ever imagine that you would be applying it firsthand?
Speaker 3:in gaza. Did that ever cross your mind?
Speaker 1:well, I always wanted to do A&E medicine because I always wanted to work on the front lines of natural disaster war zones. But Gaza is not a war zone, gaza is a genocide. You know, I remember talking to an American doctor there and you know we said this is like if you were a doctor in Auschwitz. Like this is like a doctor if you were in the Warsaw ghetto. This is what it would be like. You were literally watching people being mowed down with guns, kids blown to pieces, and we're here with very limited resources, limited food. Us, as the international doctors, we didn't have food either. You know, we're only allowed to bring in three kilos of food with us and you're there for a month. So, yeah, it's very, very um. It's not like just being a doctor in a war zone, it's you're in the front line it's almost like a movie.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know the hospital's being bombed and you're in the hospital. The hospital grounds are being bombed and you're in there. Ambulances are being bombed.
Speaker 3:You must have feared for your own life several times.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, the thing is is I started to go viral when I was in Gaza and that brought with it a lot of eyes and it also brought a lot of danger with it as well. I was getting threats and things like that.
Speaker 3:Can you say from who exactly, or was it anonymous individuals?
Speaker 1:Let's just say there was a lot going on. Okay, there was a lot going on and the NGO that I went with they'd actually prepared a statement in case I was killed. A lot of people were really very worried because I was doing a lot of interviews while I was there and stuff like that. I was making a lot of noise and a lot of people are scared. A lot of them are self-censor when they're there. A lot of the doctors don't like to do anything because they don't want to be, one, banned from going back to Gaza and, two, they don't want to put themselves in danger, which I totally understand. But I was just so horrified by the scenes that we were seeing.
Speaker 3:So for people who don't know, I think a lot of people became familiar with you and they saw the Beast from the Middle East handle with this video, which is very emotional. It's you in your scrubs and you're taking some time away from were you in the operating theatre.
Speaker 1:I was down in the emergency department and you were just taking some time away from um.
Speaker 3:were you in the operating theater or I was not in the emergency department and you just taken some time to yourself and you were just so overcome and shocked by what you had seen and the smells you're describing the burnt flesh and yeah and all of that and that just went absolutely viral and brought so much attention to what was going on. Yeah, like you said there were celebrities sharing it yes was that overwhelming for you do?
Speaker 1:you know, because there's not. You know, the wi-fi signal is very bad in gaza. So, like I could see, there was a lot of views on it and there was a lot of likes, but I couldn't really read all the comments and stuff, so I didn't really know the extent of how viral it went. My plan when I went to there was I opened up my instagram account and I just wanted my Instagram to be able to show what was going on in Gaza. Um, so, people could support our work and and that was pretty much it, and it was just out of make sure that everyone that knows me knows that I'm safe and sees what I'm doing. And, um man, you know when, when it went viral, everything just changed. And you know when it went viral, everything just changed. And you know there was a real danger then, as I was going viral, that I was in danger.
Speaker 1:But I knew that, now that I was viral and I had the attention of the world, that I had to keep posting what was going on and I had to keep sharing what was going on. And I used it as a mode to humanize Palestinian people. You know, I'm Palestinian and my thing was was I want to try and humanize Palestinian people. I wasn't doing like a diary of talking about the cases I mean, there was some of that, it was, you know, talking about different cases and stuff but I wanted to talk about the stories of these patients. I wanted to show how they came to be, how their life is at the minute, what kind of conversations that they're having. I just wanted to shine a light on that. I just wanted to show people that actually these people are just like me and you and that's really what I was trying to push, and there seemed to be an appetite for that worldwide and that's why I think it just gained the traction that it did, especially because no international journalists are allowed in.
Speaker 1:So people like you, you're our only window to what's going on, and you know, I've got an English accent, I'm well-spoken and I felt it was important that I at least be the voice of the voiceless there in Gaza, and I think that's probably just as important as any medical work that you do over there.
Speaker 3:How did your mother and father react when you told them listen, I'm going, I'm going into Gaza?
Speaker 1:Do you know, the first time when I went into Gaza last year was June, in May, that's when they closed the Rafah border and there was like nothing that went in and out for like four weeks. So we were, I think, the first team to go in via Jordan, the first group of people to go in via Jordan, the first medical team. And you know, that's when we weren't allowed to take any medical equipment. We weren't allowed to take, you know, large power banks and we weren't allowed to take in money and you know we're only allowed to take in a limited amount of money and all the rules had changed. So, you know, I bought with me eight medical bags. I wasn't allowed to bring them in, they were like big duffel bags, wasn't allowed to bring any of them in and, um, the rafa had closed.
Speaker 1:But they'd also killed the world central kitchen workers as well wow so I was essentially one of the first group of international aid workers to go into Gaza after they killed those world central kitchen workers, and that's when I had to tell my mum that I was going in. And obviously that was a very because the war had changed. Now Rafa was closed, now International aid workers have been killed and I'm gonna be the first one going in after that, and my mum was obviously, you know, petrified for me, of course, and you know I remember the conversation that I had with my mum. But you know, my mum, she, she raised me and she grew up with me. She always knew this is what I wanted to do, that I always wanted to be helping people, especially in these kinds of situations, and it was my home as well, like it was almost like. This is, this is everything that it's, this is why I became a doctor. This is why I went to Australia to do emergency medicine was for this moment.
Speaker 3:All leading to that one moment. It was all leading to that one moment was all leading to that one, and you'd never been to gaza before, never been to palestine before.
Speaker 1:And, um, you know, when I had that conversation with her, obviously she was teary and crying. And then, you know, she hung up the phone and she called me back, like after she composed herself, and she said, you know, said, uh, hamada, death is in the hands of allah, it's not in the hands of israel, so I'm going to leave you in the hands of Allah. It's not in the hands of Israel, so I'm going to leave you in the hands of Allah. But she said to me just make sure your intention is pure when you go. And you know, every day I always think about my intention.
Speaker 1:Like everything that I'm doing, am I doing with it? You know, it's hard when you have all these interviews and there's a lot of media spotlight on me and things like that, and a a lot of people praise me and call me a hero and stuff like that. All of that makes me scared, because I'm not doing it for any kind of praise. I'm doing this because something needs to be done. We need to help these people. That's the only reason why I switched on that camera and was recording what was going on.
Speaker 1:It wasn't about me, it was about trying to help. It was trying to raise awareness, wasn't about me. It was about trying to help. It was trying to raise awareness. But, subhanallah, allah works in mysterious ways and I feel like he's almost now put me in this position now, where you know he's using my voice, you know I'm used as a voice for these people and the irony is is that I'm a Ghazawi. I'm a Ghazawi refugee. Who else to raise the voice of those people in Ghazawi? But somebody from them, somebody who is from their home?
Speaker 1:His own family was displaced Families, displaced from Gaza as well. I've got family in Gaza right now. I've got aunties, uncles, cousins.
Speaker 3:I remember you mentioning you met some of these people for the first time in the hospitals.
Speaker 1:Do you know? Yeah, do you know? Subhanallah, I remember my there was this. You know, I got a message from my mum and she was saying that there's a girl on the ward, she's one of your relatives, please can you go see her. So I went up to the ward and it was a young girl. She was only about eight years old, but she'd been having seizures and she was like slipping in and out of consciousness and I went up to go see her and, you know, by then her temperature had come down.
Speaker 1:The worry was that she had meningitis. Go see her and, um, you know, by then her temperature had come down. The worry was that she had meningitis. And, um, you know, when I turned around after I had examined her and stuff, and you know, neurologically she was okay and I went, I was going to go and look at her med charts. I was going to go to the nurse's station and try and get a medical chart for her and look at her blood work that they did and, um, this woman was stood behind me. She was an old woman and you know, my grandmother died one month before the war started and I looked at this woman and she looked exactly like my grandma.
Speaker 1:Wow and she came up to me and she gave me a hug. Now, obviously this is a conservative place. So this hijabi old woman came and hugged me and I was a bit like taking the back, was like why she hugged me, like, and then she said you look exactly like he'd had. And I went, as if me meaning to. I said sorry, like who are you? She went I'm your mother's auntie, she's my grandma's sister so and the reason why I was so took.
Speaker 1:She looked exactly like my grandma and that girl that I was seeing was her granddaughter.
Speaker 1:Wow so it was my mother's cousin's daughter that I was treating and you know they invited me, like my mom's cousins invited me to their home and you know this was like during a heat, because I spent a heat there, yeah. So I went over there. One had cacca timer, so in a heat in the morning I went around all the family houses and they came with a box of photographs and we sat down and this was my mom's cousins and they started showing me photographs of my parents' wedding.
Speaker 3:Wow, which has happened in Gaza or in?
Speaker 1:Jordan. It happened in Egypt, in Egypt, literally over the border. So this was my parents' wedding. And then they had pictures of my dad when he was a kid in Gaza. They had pictures of my grandmother that passed away when she was in Gaza, had pictures of my grandmother that passed away when she was in Gaza, had pictures of my granddad. I remember just thinking to myself SubhanAllah, like these are real photos, photos of my mum's aunties as well and stuff like that. So you know, I remember when I left Gaza, I left Gaza with those pictures. They gave me those pictures to take, and I remember surprising my mum and showing her that photograph. Photograph it's like a, you know, it's like a 40 year old photo she must have thought she's never seeing that, ever again she's, yeah, she, yeah.
Speaker 1:But that's what I mean about like, how you know. And then look, I've got family members who are doctors in gaza, who work as doctors in gaza.
Speaker 3:I've got family members who are the paramedics in gaza, family members who are nurses in gaza 1400 over 1400 palestinian medical professionals have been killed since the start of this conflict, and that doesn't even include the international aid workers, the journalists during that conflict. How often are you thinking about that? How often do you feel like death is like seconds away from you when you're working?
Speaker 1:you said the hospital was bombed whilst you were there I mean, you know, look, it depends on your appetite for risk. I was getting in the back of ambulances to transport patients from hospital hospitals without, you know, approval by the un or things like that, but these patients needed somebody to, because there was no ventilators. These patients needed someone to manage their airway as they were being transported from place to place. So my appetite for risk was quite high compared to other people. There were some doctors that wouldn't even leave the hospital grounds even to go to the market just outside to buy water or things like that. So it really depends on you as a doctor, and that's why my mum was so worried, because she knew that I would probably take a lot of risks while I was there and I did um.
Speaker 1:But that's not something I talk about too often because you know I don't want to compromise further missions for other people, whatever. But you know, look, uh, this is not an easy place to do medicine. Sometimes you have to do medicine, um and break a lot of rules to get things done to save people's lives. But you know you save life.
Speaker 1:It's as if you save the whole of humanity and I just remembered, like if I was going to die bagging and masking someone or managing their airway to another hospital. It's a good way to go out. It's a good way to go out.
Speaker 3:You were there when those aid workers I think there were 15 of them were targeted and killed in their ambulances and that was then covered up and then discovered by international media, did you? I don't know, like how do you process that whilst you're there? Did you know any of those people?
Speaker 1:You know, I actually because when the war started or broke out like our, um, our car was stuck in the North, the NGOs car was stuck in the North, so, um, I would walk from the hospital to the safe house, or sometimes I'd walk from the hospital to my uncle's house, right and, um, you know, it'd be like a 20 minute walk. So we're walking in the street. Sometimes, if you wanted to, you could get on the back of a donkey car and go via, don't get.
Speaker 1:But the problem is, if you want a donkey, you don't know who else is on the donkey car with you. They could just target the donkey car. Yeah, so I would always walk and be with. The safest thing is just to walk. Obviously, look, they could bomb the street that I'm in and shrapnel could you know whatever on, and yeah, but just a risk that you have to take. But I would walk every day to and from. You know work in the safe house and, um, how long was that walk? 20 minutes, okay. So the 20 minute walk.
Speaker 1:Um, you know the there were times where you know the street that I was in would be bombed. You know, like, literally, you know 100, 200 meters away there'd be a missile strike. But you know that's life in Gaza. You know, if you start panicking over a missile strike that's a few hundred meters away, you are going to panic a lot in Gaza because they're going off all the time and there's drones overhead all the time. Panic a lot in Gaza because they're going off all the time and there's drones overhead all the time. But you know it's not because I'm a like, like fear or anything like that. The fear is always there. But you know, what was also there in the back of my head was like I just these kids that are playing in the streets. The missiles just gone off 100 meters down there, but they're still playing.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's how normal it is that's what I wanted to ask you about children growing up without siblings, without parents, like tens of thousands, potentially hundreds of thousands, who are orphaned. What are the long-term effects? We're going to lose a whole generation of kids.
Speaker 1:You know they haven't gone to school for two years. A lot of them have stunted growth, malnutrition. There's a million children there. You know they say 20 000 have been killed. It's a lot more. I would probably put it at 80, 100, 100,000 children being killed, probably.
Speaker 3:And that's because we don't know how many are under the rubble.
Speaker 1:Well, not just don't know how many are under the rubble. You know the Lancet report reported that they think the estimate of debt is between 180,000 to 300,000. They think are dead in Gaza. If you put into perspective that 50% are children, right. If you put into perspective that 50% are children, right, what's 50% of two hundred thousand? What's 50% of three hundred thousand? It's a lot of children dead, mm-hmm. And the children that survive are traumatized. The children that survive have are emancipated. They've lost a lot of weight. So the real risk is is that we lose this entire generation. You know they've destroyed all the schools, the universities, the healthcare system, food, nutrition. That's why, like, the first thing that needs to happen is there needs to be a concerted effort to save these kids. Whether we save these kids' education, save these kids from you know they're deteriorating bodies. There needs to be a plan in place and right now there isn't a plan in place for what we do for all these kids. There isn't a plan you end on.
Speaker 3:Have a plan for this because all they're trying to do is get to the next ceasefire.
Speaker 1:And then what happens next? Yeah and hence why you know when I saw all of this and you know you'd speak to like un officials and go. So what's going to happen with all? They just know how many kids are orphaned. They have no idea where these kids are. They have no idea who's looking after them. There's no program for these orphaned kids.
Speaker 1:They're literally being looked after by the community, and the community is destroyed, and this is what then gave birth to the idea of we need to get a hospital in Gaza because no one's taking charge of what's going on in Gaza. There's no help whatsoever. There's no day after plan. You know they talk about what they're going to do the day after. The Israelis obviously have their own plan. President Trump has his own plan. You know the Arabs have their own plan, but I don't want us, as the people, to be helpless and not have a plan. Let's start having a plan. We don't have to go along with them. I know they're the rich and the powerful and they control all this, but we don't have to accept their plan.
Speaker 3:So let's talk about this right, because it's so easy to feel hopelessness. We've been almost desensitized to the violence on our screens for the last two years, which is so shocking. It's gone on for that long. But tell me about what you've been working on, because you've just come from Parliament, literally straight from Westminster, to this interview. Tell me about what you've been doing and what you're pushing for, this international effort for.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm pushing for an international effort to get a coalition of governments to work together to bring a hospital into Gaza. Hospital will be staffed by foreign doctors and nurses. Hospital will have its own supply line of medication equipment. You know, look, everyone, and maybe most people, have seen the documentary Gaza Doctors Under Attack.
Speaker 1:Right, it shows you the systematic killing of senior doctors of healthcare facilities, because they're not just destroying the building, because the building can be rebuilt, but what they're also killing is the senior surgeon who spent 15 years specializing, the talent, the knowledge and the knowledge that's all been taken away. How do we rebuild a healthcare system if the talent and the knowledge and those at the top have been assassinated systematically, one by one? The only way is we have to bring doctors from the outside in to train up the next lot, the next generation, and that's what this hospital represents. It's not just going to save people right now, it's also going to be there as the groundwork, as the framework for the next group of doctors and how we train up the next group of doctors.
Speaker 1:Look, a lot of people have criticized this and went oh, you know, this is going to be colonialism rebranded, because you know it's going to be all these European doctors and it's going to take power away from the Palestine. Do you know? I had this conversation and I just said to them listen, these people have gone through a genocide, just give them a break.
Speaker 1:They don't need to rebuild their healthcare system. They need to rebuild their lives, their homes, their families. They need a break. Let us just temporarily provide a service.
Speaker 3:So tell me about how you're doing this, because I think you described it as almost like a hospital on wheels. So each of these units can be driven in across the border and will have its own everything like its own ward, its own operating theatre phlebotomy.
Speaker 1:all of that in one go, yeah, so you know. Look, these are medical caravans. These are reassembled and they're made into wards, intensive care units, pharmacies, pathology labs, doctor's quarters, kitchen areas for immunization clinics, outpatient clinics.
Speaker 3:And for context, is there still a hospital standing or that hasn't been bombed in Gaza today?
Speaker 1:Well, pretty much every single hospital is damaged in Gaza and most of them no longer work. Most of them are completely destroyed. So what we're doing is we're bringing in an infrastructure that's built outside and bought into Gaza. So it is a functioning hospital, air-conditioned, state-of-the-art equipment wow and self-powered solar panel powered. So you know there's going to be a problem with electricity for a while in.
Speaker 3:Gaza. So this is all solar panel powered incredible, incredible. How has this been funded?
Speaker 1:So the first hospital is already built and ready to go, and it is a maternity and neonatal hospital in which we're trying to negotiate to get in right now. So that'll be the first hospital, and once we get that one in, the next is everyone rallies around and we get this pediatric hospital in. Look, I've been trying to work through different foundations to try and get this hospital in. It's always the same problem well, you don't have access. So why are we going to pay for something that there's no guarantee that, one, it won't get in and, two, it won't get bombed? And I hear them and I understand them, but at the same time, the reason why they're being bombed and they're not allowing access in is because they don't want these hospitals in. But if we just say, well, they're going to do it anyway, so there's no point in trying, then they win.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what they want yeah so it's a bit of a redundant. It's a circular question, I almost feel, because you know bringing the hospital in is what stops the bombing of the hospital, because this hospital is not no longer got a palestine flag on it or a un flag on it, it's got a british, australian, new zealand. So you bomb that, you're bombing the british yeah you're bombing the australians, you're bombing what's going to be your allies and how are the politicians reacting and receiving this?
Speaker 3:can you say anything? I think?
Speaker 1:you know? Look, I think there's a lot of closed door solidarity, but we don't need closed door solidarity. I mean, we're watching the end game of a genocide here in 4k. What we need is we need statements to come out and we need people to say listen, we have multi-billion dollar trade agreement with you, we're getting in our hospital. This is coming in do you know?
Speaker 1:there is some leverage that we have. And look, I, I can't criticize governments too much because I have to work with them to get this hospital in, so I can't, I'm not the one to shout at them. Look, what I've got to say is I've I've got to believe that these people in government are human beings as well. They're watching the same images that we're watching and they are moved by what they're seeing.
Speaker 1:There are things that are happening in the background that maybe I don't understand or you don't understand, that make it difficult for people to react or to do anything. But just because there are things going on in the background that make it difficult for them to act doesn't mean that we stop trying, and that's all I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to come up with a solution. And you know what's crazy is? I'm just a doctor. I mean, I'm not an ngo, I'm not the un, I'm not a government, I'm not a politician, but somehow I'm managing to meet all of these politicians and present to them this idea. And they haven't had this, and which is what makes me believe that actually there's a gap here. There's a huge gap here. There's a gap for the people to rise up and do something. You know what about all the teachers? Why don't they come up with a plan of how we teach the children in Gaza? For sure.
Speaker 1:Why don't the engineers come up with a plan of how we build the roads back in Gaza? Why don't the fishermen come up with a plan of how we you know we do the, the fishing industry, that Everybody can have a role, everybody can do something? Because what I realized was was that actually there aren't, actually people are just Worried about getting a ceasefire. No one's thinking about the day after. Obviously, I want a ceasefire, obviously I would love that, but there are a lot of people working on the ceasefire. There's not a lot of people working on how do we reverse the damage that's been caused to the healthcare system, the assassinations of these doctors? How do we do it? You know, doctors and healthcare workers in Gaza make up 0.7% of the population, right, but they make up 8% of.
Speaker 3:Wow, so it's a clear targeting, yeah.
Speaker 1:Statistically it'd be impossible that they're not being targeted. They're being killed 10 times at the rate that they are in society, 10 times the rate you can't say anything other than targeted.
Speaker 3:I'm hopeful. I think recently we saw the UK, australia, canada, norway and I think it was New Zealand who all came together to apply sanctions on two very senior ministers within the israeli government, ben gavir and um smotrich, security and finance minister, so clearly it's.
Speaker 3:You know it's starting to get to a point where they're like this is enough, we need to figure something out and all you're asking to do is to move your mobile caravan units, which are they're in j in Jordan right now, through and into Gaza. Do you worry that they may just get bombed anyway?
Speaker 1:Listen, man, if they get bombed, they get bombed. They killed aid workers because they were feeding children, because they don't want children to be fed. They bombed hospitals because they don't want people to be treated at hospitals. Listen, that can't be the reason we stop. That can't be the reason that we say we don't do it. That's what they want. They want you to have these questions and be like, well, there's no point because they're going to get bombed. What we're saying is they're going to do a war crime. All right, let them do another war crime. Let's build the ICJ case it. Let's bring in another one.
Speaker 3:Let's bring in the differences, they're committing a war crime on their allies at this point exactly that's where it changes and that's what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1:I'm just trying to change how we package these hospitals yeah and look, you might not agree with me.
Speaker 1:You might think that I've got the wrong idea. You might think that I'm the wrong person to to lead this. You might think there are other people that are better suited than me. There might be a lot of things. You might not even like me, right? Yeah? But one thing that you cannot deny is at least I'm trying to come up with a solution, absolutely, and there are other people that are not willing to do that. So, listen, if you've got a better idea, I will support your better idea. Come, come and I will be right behind you. Because for me, it's not about not about me, it's about those children. It's about saving lives, because when you go over there to Gaza and the things that you see and the patients and the injuries and the screams and the children, it changes your perspective. Right? For me, I don't care if they call the hospital Benjamin Netanyahu's Pediatric Hospital. I don't care who gets to cut the ribbon. I don't care if it's Donald Trump, I don't care if it's Joe Biden, I don't care.
Speaker 3:As long as it's saving lives.
Speaker 1:I just want these kids to stop dying. I want to give them a bit of dignity and hope. I don't want them to be screaming in a corner, bleeding to death on the floor, without even a little bit of analgesia or painkillers. I remember you describing you didn't even have sutures fit for human beings yeah, I mean, I showed the pictures the first time that I was there.
Speaker 1:They said the sutures were not suitable for humans well, they were for animals yeah yeah, so to puncture someone's skin with it was taking it was like I'd have to puncture three or four, five, six times just to puncture the skin with no anesthesia yeah tell me about, and and I think this is what people want to hear the most about how do the garzens feel?
Speaker 3:do they feel abandoned? Do they feel hope, hopeless?
Speaker 1:you know, like any population, there's always a mixed, mixed feeling. You know there are some people that feel hopeless. Can't deny that. You know to say they don't feel hopeless. That some of them don't feel hopeless is a lie. I mean you're feeling hopeless watching it, Imagine living it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:They're only human beings at the end of the day. There are some that are defiant and resilient, and there are others that are in this apathetic state where they no longer are living or dying. They're just existing. That's how they're going along. I think they have a right to feel however they want to feel, If they want to feel angry at the world. They deserve to have that right Absolutely.
Speaker 1:If they want to go and leave Gaza, they have the right to, and I know people don't like and I'm Ghazawi, I'm from Gaza, right to, and I know people don't like and I'm from gaza, right here. I know people don't like to hear that, right, but we've done nothing collectively to stop this mass genocide and killing spree. Everything's been destroyed in gaza. Would you go live in gaza now with it being completely destroyed, your kids not having food, not knowing if you're going to sell?
Speaker 3:there's nowhere to live. You'll just be living in a tent or so.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying, yeah but what I'm saying is is I don't want that to be the case, where everyone leaves gaza. So I want to start bringing in infrastructure into gaza, starting with health care, and then after that we can get all these other things in, so we don't have loads of people wanting to leave gaza. You know, and I'm and I know, and I know people do not want to leave gaza. They don't want to. They would only leave gaza if they are forced to or they have to because they have no other option, and that's what's happening right now. There's no other. I mean, you know everyone's having a look at the gaza humanitarian foundation. You know they're funneling people into cages and just mowing them down with guns.
Speaker 1:Israeli soldiers have admitted on Israeli media that they shoot civilians for fun. They kill them for fun while they're queuing up for food. You wouldn't accept this for yourself or for your kids, so don't accept it for the Gazans. And unless you're willing to make a change or do something to help them, then you don't have an opinion about what Garzens feel, or if they want to leave or they don't want to leave. Obviously, like everyone else, I don't want them to leave. I want them to be home. I don't want them to be displaced from their land, but we've got to change the circumstances.
Speaker 3:Otherwise, that will be the inevitable outcome.
Speaker 1:That will be the inevitable outcome, and if we don't do that, then that's what's going to happen.
Speaker 3:There's so much else I think we could talk about, but one thing which I always wonder about people in your position is how did this affect your faith as a Muslim?
Speaker 1:You know you can't help but fall back in love with your faith. You know what I mean. There's a lot of deep things that I was thinking about, you know, when I was in Gaza, because you know you think these people in Gaza, they're so blessed like, they're so amazing. You know the way they carry themselves and conduct themselves and you think why are these people who are so spiritually in touch with their religion, why are they suffering in this way? And you know you can go down that path and it can create a bit of doubt. But what also you understand is that Allah never places a burden on a soul that it can't take. And these people are carrying a huge burden, but they carry it in such a way where they've awakened the whole Muslim world. There are people that never practiced Islam, or Muslim by name, but not by faith, and they've come back to Islam because of Ghazza. There are people that weren't Muslim, that became Muslim because of Ghazza. So when you're there in Ghazza, what do you think it's going to do to you If they're inspiring people from behind the TV screen? Imagine what it's like there.
Speaker 1:And you know, there was one thing that I think my mother helped me actually to process. Because I said to her mum like you know, all these things, like all the suffering they're suffering so much like this can't be right, they're not suffering. And she said to me you know, she said Hamad like how much do you love your brothers and sisters and your mum and dad? And I went, loads, she goes. How much do you think your parents love you? And I went, she goes how much do you think your parents love you? And I went, yeah, loads. She went. Allah loves them more than you could ever love any of those people. So whatever is happening over there in Ghazni, remember it's by his will and it's his will to people that he loves more than you could ever love your own mother, more than you love anything else in this world. He loves them more than that. And that made me realise that that, any subhanallah, then there must be something in store for them in the day, in the, in the day after, you know, on Judgment Day. There's something for them and they must be blessed in a way that we'll never be able to understand and the reality and the veil of this dunya. We can't see how blessed they really are. And you know, that was part of the reason that motivated me to go to raza, because I was, like you know, on the day of judgment. They're gonna have it easy. It's us that I have a lot to answer for that.
Speaker 1:While they were being slaughtered, what did we do? Were we still sipping on coca-cola and having starbucks and jermaine? What did we do? And I just didn't want there to be a scenario where I'd have to face allah and say, well, do you know what I mean? What did we do? And I just didn't want there to be a scenario where I'd have to face Allah and say, well, I just, you know, I shared a few posts on social media. That was as far as it went with me.
Speaker 3:My final question is for people listening, thinking how can I help? Is there something they can do? Is it lobbying their local MPs? Is it donating to a certain cause?
Speaker 1:yeah, lobbying, lobbying your mps. Get pressure, put pressure on. Uh, talk about us. Look, I am a firm believer that everyone has a lane to stick to, right. Yeah, I'm a doctor. I'll do some doctor things right for you. Might be an artist, do artistic things for us. You might be a singer, sing for us. Poet, write poetry for us, if you're really good at Making angry letters. Write angry letters to the MPs. Go for it.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. If you're good at complaining, complain, but everyone's got a role to play. Everyone's got something to do. If you're a teacher, organise with other teachers. Maybe even write up a syllabus.
Speaker 1:You know there's no syllabus that's been written up of how do we get everyone to catch up for two years worth of work. Let me find a teacher that's got a plan of how we can, a teaching plan of how we can get these kids back up to speed in 18 months. You know what I mean Something, but everybody has a role to play. And look, even if you come up with a whole curriculum, say, of how you do this in 18 months right, yeah, and it doesn't get used or whatever, then it could be a guide or motivation for other people to do something yeah and it's for your own own mental state of well-being where you say I did something, I came up with a plan.
Speaker 1:yeah, it didn't want to use, but I tried, I did something. And you know it applies more pressure. It brings eyes. If you're there and you're advertising that you've got a comprehensive teaching plan that's going to make the kids, you know, catch up to speed, it's going to get other people to go. All right, let's have a look at it. Maybe we can improve it, maybe we can help, maybe we can sponsor. You know, the Palestine movement has always been a people's movement. It's never been a government movement and that's essentially what this hospital is all about. It's a people's hospital. It's for the people, by the people, from the people. That's what it is. That's why I'm not asking for governments to give money or whatever. We're going to raise all the money from donations and from whatnot, but what we need is we need people to get governments on side so they can support this hospital.
Speaker 3:So they can just let it through.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 3:Dr Mohammed, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, thank you so much for having me May. Allah protect you and your family and continue you on this mission.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. I appreciate it. As-salamu alaykum Wa alaykum as-salam.
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