A Few Simple Strategies

In this episode, clinical social workers Kristina and Heather unravel the art of managing children's emotional outbursts with a mix of expert insights, practical strategies, and a dash of humor. They explore how understanding our child’s brain development can shift our approach to discipline and guide us through moments of emotional intensity. Learn how to redirect focus from the emotional brain to the more rational frontal lobe with techniques like the "look up" method, and discover the power of non-verbal communication. Kristina and Heather also dive into why it’s crucial to avoid teaching during a meltdown, how simple phrases like “first and then” or “make me an offer I can say yes to” can promote cooperation, and the magic of clear, consistent communication. With tips on using positive reinforcement and calming phrases like “asked and answered,” they’ll explain some actionable approaches we can use right now that can reduce tension and foster a peaceful environment for both grown-ups and children. 

Gear Up! Adventures In Parenthood is recorded and edited by Dave Purnell and produced by Jen Plante Johnson for the ODC Network in Holland, Michigan.

The ODC Network is a non-profit organization that strives to advance outdoor education and conservation in West Michigan. 

Since 2000, The ODC Network has served over a million people through hands-on, outdoor learning experiences and conserved thousands of acres of native habitat through restoration and preservation projects.

The ODC Network’s vision is building a better community by connecting people, land and nature. To learn more and get involved go to: www.odcnetwork.org.

Transcript

Kristina  00:00

Today, we're diving into some simple strategies that parents we've worked with have found super helpful. 

Heather  00:06

And these approaches begin with understanding a bit of brain development. Knowing what's going on in the brain is key to helping our children calm when emotions run high. 

Kristina  00:15

Exactly. We'll share some of our favorite techniques, like simply looking up, doing that helps shift focus from the emotional center of the brain to the frontal lobe. Basically, it's a quick reset.

Heather  00:27

We'll also explore using our senses. Shifting our focus to what we can see, hear, touch or smell, can really help pull our kids out of that emotional whirlwind.

Kristina  00:38

And here's a biggie: those emotionally charged moments are not the time to teach. Trying to reason with a child who's in meltdown mode is not going to serve anyone. 

Heather  00:50

Well, it's just not going to happen. Instead, let's tap into non-verbal communication. We'll talk about what this looks like in practice and how it increases feelings of connectedness within our children. 

Kristina  00:59

We'll also cover some useful phrases, like “first…then” to set expectations, “make me an offer I can say yes to” to encourage cooperation, and “it's just the right thing to do” to instill values. 

Heather  01:16

Consistent, positive reinforcement is crucial. And clear communication helps build that all important connection with our children. 

Kristina  01:24

Just a reminder, these strategies take time. Don't try to implement all of them at once. That can get super confusing for everyone.

Heather  01:31

Begin by focusing on only one. We think you'll be surprised at how effective these strategies actually are once implemented. 

Kristina  01:40

Let's explore some strategies together.

Heather  01:46

Welcome to Gear up! Adventures In Parenthood.

Kristina  01:49

A podcast where we explore the struggles and challenges we all face as parents. We'll share ideas and offer tips and strategies for raising happy, healthy children. My name's Kristina Boersma.

Heather  02:02

And I'm Heather Bouwman. Kristina and I are clinical social workers who've been working with families and children for a good long minute. We're support service directors for the Early Childhood Network of ODC Network in Holland, Michigan. And we get to support parents and children as they navigate the tricky terrain of raising children and growing up in today's world.

Kristina  02:24

We're here to help unpack the hard stuff and connect with the joy of parenting. 

Heather  02:30

Are you ready?

Heather and Kristina  02:31

Let's hit the trails!

Heather  02:37

This project is made possible by the ODC Network, an amazing nonprofit organization based in Holland, Michigan where we get to work supporting preschool aged students, their teachers and their parents. 

Kristina  02:50

The ODC Network is all about nurturing the community and the next generation through a wide variety of innovative nature based initiatives.

Heather  02:57

Please visit www.ODCNetwork.org, to learn more about the ODC Network's mission and impact.

Kristina  03:07

We've talked about assertive voice. We've talked about empathy, expectation, choice. Let's share some of our favorites that are quick. They are easy. They're great to know about what's happening in your child's brain. And as soon as you get done listening, you can implement these things too. 

Heather  03:27

Absolutely. One thing we talk about a lot, and that we teach parents and teachers is that when a child is really dysregulated, maybe they are throwing a tantrum. Maybe they're just really upset. They're crying, and we're trying to get them to calm. And that can be those moments of what I will often do is look up. And at our work, we're oftentimes outside, so there are things to look up and see. Even in your house, you can look up. And the young child especially will almost always be like, “What are they looking at?” And look up as well. Look up as well. And it's really hard for the brain when your eyeballs look up to be in your emotion center or your survival state. It brings you back to your frontal lobe. And so there's at least a pause. And so I look up for a significant period of time, and then I breathe really deeply, and you hold it, and then you might see a bird or something in a tree, or an airplane, and for the young child, we can call any of those things to them. “Did you see that plane? Look at that.” And then all of a sudden, it is distraction, but it's also they're looking. They're using their brain, their back and their frontal lobe, and the upset calms, yes, because they can't be in both places at once in their brain, right?

Kristina  05:02

Because simultaneously, you cannot be in the emotional or survival state of the brain and be utilizing your senses, right? To take in information. So if you're inside in my house, you could look up and say like, “Oh, there's a cobweb. Oh, what's that weird stain?” So you don't have to be outside. 

Heather  05:24

No, you do not. There's always something to look at, or a smell. It's any of your senses. It could be. What do I see? What do I hear? What am I smelling? Sometimes it's just making something up. Like, “Do you smell that? Yeah, is that- That stinks.” The kids always like the stinky stuff.

Kristina  05:46

Yes. So then all of a sudden they start trying to figure out what they're smelling as well. So they start sniffing smells like macaroni and just random things come out. We had a parent ask one time, well, what do I do if I don't smell anything weird, you may just pretend you hear something. I'll often say, “Oh, my word!” And turn my head around. What? Oh, I hear that. Do you hear that? And soon they’re back up in their thinking part of their brain. They're taking in information. They're focused on what they're hearing. And they often will hear something too, or they'll say, “Why don't I don't hear anything?” But they're up in their thinking brain. We've left our survival brain, we've left our emotional center, and we're back to thinking.

Heather  06:35

And then we can get to a place where we can have a moment of connection. We have calm. It's probably not the best moment to have the learning take place still. We're too close to it. We don't want to go back into whatever was causing great distress. Now it might be that they were refusing to do something, and then we go back into empathy. “That was really hard. You were really upset. I'm so glad that you're calm and we can breathe” and all of that. But we don't need every moment to be a teaching moment. And sometimes we can forget that as parents, because we just we want them to know. And we want to teach them. And we go there too quickly before they're ready, and it doesn't serve us well. 

Kristina  07:27

One of the things that's really important for us to remember and to know is that when an individual is in their emotional center or survival center of their brain, that thinking part we know is kind of offline. That's also where we house our language center. So too often, we use lots and lots of words in the midst of somebody else's upset. And what that actually does is it doesn't help them understand. It doesn't teach them something. It causes them to become more frustrated, more agitated, because it's confusing to them. So when we try to apply the logic in the midst of upset, you know, “You can't have that cookie because we're going to eat in twenty minutes. And if you eat that cookie right now, then you're going to have a, you know, not the appetite that we want. You need to get strong food before you get weak food.” Nothing. You can bring in a sense, you can use empathy, expectation, choice. It is not the time to teach. So reflecting back sometime later to say, “That was tricky. You really wanted to have a cookie right then that was hard for you.” Ad you can talk about that later. “The reason we can't eat cookies,” if that's something you've established in your home, “is because it affects our appetite. And what we know about our bodies is they need…” That's the time to have the conversation. Once you are removed from the upset. Everybody's back in the thinking part of their brain. There's your teachable moment, not in the time of upset or immediately right after it.

Heather  09:11

I think we move to that oftentimes too quickly, and it doesn't serve us well. But it's also not easy to stop doing it right? Because it could be that we're frustrated too. And sometimes we talk about that we can get hooked as parents. And so something taps within us, and then it's the “No, you are not going” and then it just the agitation is so increased. But it's hard to resist those types of things. It's human nature. When there's a push, we want to pull. And so that can be really hard to resist. 

Kristina  09:56

So remembering senses, you can turn. Right? Later today, smell something. Hear something crazy, whatever it might be. Give it a shot. See what happens. I love this next strategy we're going to talk about. And my mom is a like master with this strategy, and it's highly effective. It is using your head to nod “yes” or “no” as you're asking the question, as you are giving information with whatever you want the person to respond. If you want an affirmative response, you nod your head “yes,” up and down. If you want the person to give a negative response, you shake your head back and forth, shaking your head “no.” So it looks like this, my mother nodding her head up and down. “Do you think we should have ham at Christmas?” The crazy thing about this is because of mirror neurons, which we all possess, as you watch somebody shaking their head up and down, you begin to shake your head up and down, and your brain thinks, “Yes, I want this. Yes, this is a good thing.” So even as you're speaking with your child nodding your head in the direction you'd like it to go. I know this sounds like trickery. I'm okay if it is, because it helps the person that you're speaking to comply with what you're asking. How do you see that used in your world, Heather?

Heather  11:32

Same way. And it can feel like trickery, but it's very effective. Even as adults in the business world, even with sales people, they're all trained in the nodding, because it's really important, non verbal communication. We went through a period in time after some of the people that we work with came to our class didn't dare to be in meetings with us afterwards, because it's so effective. And it is a powerful thing. Another important thing to know, and again, it's not manipulation. It's just science. It works requesting in the “Yes.” You might think I won't have time to do this. I can't constantly get my child to say “yes” three times in a row before I give them a directive. No, you can't. And you shouldn't. There are times, though, that maybe are the trickier times. Maybe there's something that's harder for them to give up. Maybe there's something that's harder for them to move away from and to stop doing. And that's the moment to maybe use the strategy of requests in the “Yes,” which the whole basis of it is you ask or make three comments and you get them to respond “yes” three times. So maybe it's “You really enjoy playing with your Legos.” Yes, I do. “You're really creative. Look what you built today. That is a really tall building. It's the tallest,” whatever it is. “It's really tall. And you did a really nice job sharing with your friend,” blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, yeah, we did it. We did really good. “Now it's time to clean things up. We need to get everything back in the bin, because we're gonna go to T ball practice,” or whatever it might be. But the three positives prime their pump for “yes.” And that maybe sounds manipulative. I just like to think of it as science and research.

Kristina  13:35

It is science and research as well. But the other beautiful thing that you do when you do the request, you know with “Yes,” it's connection. It is connection. And it's instead of “Yes,” instead of hollering from the other room, which we do a lot, like “Time for T ball! We have to leave in three minutes. Hurry, go.” Or my favorite, “hustle, hustle, hustle,” which never made anybody hustle. Please. Not in my family. So requesting with the “yes,” it's also a lovely time of connection, which helps kids transition together. I see you. I value you. This is where we need to move.

Heather  14:15

Maybe we need to start using that one at work. See what happens.

Kristina  14:20

Okay, watch out, colleagues. Here we come.

Heather  14:25

Another really good one that we teach other people to use, and that we use all the time in our school settings, is “first and then.” Because oftentimes you'll be moving the child towards what we need them to be doing, and they'll say, “But we just-“ “First we're going to… Then we can come back to…”

Kristina  14:51

Yes, exactly. “I really, really want to be able to go outside and play.” “Yes, absolutely. I want to play outside too. First go to the bathroom, then we'll go outside.” One of the things I just did is saying “yes.” We want to answer “yes” as much as we can to the children. “I really want to get ice cream.” “Yes, let's get ice cream tomorrow. First we're doing this, then we're doing something else.”

Heather  15:18

I remember being home, because I stayed home with my kids for a number of years when they were young. And there's just tasks that need to get done to keep the place organized and keep things routine and keep things running, and they want our attention. And of course, they do. They're little people who love us and we love them, but sometimes we have to do the dishes and sometimes we have to write out the bills and we have to take the dog for a walk and do the laundry, fold the laundry, the laundry. I love it. Always the laundry. So this is a great way to say, “Yes, I want to come out inside and play with you. First I'm going to fold this load of beautiful laundry, and then I'm gonna come out and play outside. First, we need to feed the dog. Then we can ride our bikes.”

Kristina  16:08

Yes, we can have a snack after we pick up the toys. So it's first, then, yes, after. 

Heather  16:16

And those are just strategies that gain more compliance. They work really, really well, and it's remarkable-

Kristina  16:22

The difference between saying “no” and saying “yes” after. We really want to reserve the “no” for especially when they're young, things centered around safety, because often children hear “no” a lot. 

Heather  16:45

They're just commanded a lot. I think the statistic that we saw most recently was 80% of things that are said to the young child are commands. That's staggering. That's eight out of ten, and it makes me pause and think, “Oh, what if my life eight out of ten things that people said to me were telling me what to do?” No wonder they're screaming and howling and rolling on the floor. Sometimes it makes sense. 

Kristina  17:19

That's a lot of commands, especially when they're in a time in their life where they're trying to assert their independence, that's their developmental task. So really reserving “no” for things that require a “no,” which especially for the young child, really centers around safety.

Heather  17:37

Let's talk about when we have a child who is maybe hitting a sibling or a friend or a neighbor, and you said “no,” is reserved for safety. This is also a really good time to use it. And that can sound like as you move in closely and gently, put their hands down to stop the hitting and say, “No, I won't let you hit. It's my job to keep things safe. It's your job to help keep things safe.” That's a great time to use “No.” It's very clear. It's stated as a good boundary, and we're not going to hit-

Kristina  18:14

And we're not going to say “No, thank you.” Yeah, “No, thank you.” Just Say “No, I won't let you hit.”

Heather  18:22

Which also communicates “I'm in charge of this. And I got this.”

Kristina  18:29

Yep important. And in that situation, we follow up with coaching kiddos, if the person that was being hit, “Did you like it when she hit you?”, “No, I didn't like it, tell her.

Heather  18:44

And we give them the script, depending on the age, say “I didn't like it. Don't hit me. Next time, ask if you can have a turn.”

Kristina  18:52

And so coaching those skills, right? 

Heather  18:56

We can't have a turn hitting like we just are using that as an example. Have a turn with a shovel. Have a turn with - yeah, next time-

Kristina  19:05

Good clarifier. That's good clarifier.

Heather  19:09

We're not hitting anybody.

Kristina  19:10

But that right there is a beautiful teachable moment we talk about often. That if children don't have the skills to meet an expectation, you'll see misbehavior or maladaptive behavior. Well, they don't just magically grow the skills we need to teach them. 

Heather  19:32

Yeah, and that's a lovely example of a time to begin teaching the skill of giving the language advocating for yourself.

Kristina  19:36

And the skill to the child that was hitting to say, “I want you to look at his face. How do you think that felt to him?” Right? And then if the person has said, “I don't like it when you hit me. Don't hit me again. Next time go around.” We'll say, let's practice that well. 

Heather  19:55

And we'll even say, “Tell him. What did what did you hear her say?” Now it's time go around. Okay, let's do it like this. 

Kristina  20:03

Let’s practice. You did it. And that's-

Heather  20:07

And oftentimes, then they take off running and playing together, right? They're not sworn enemies, no. That's the beautiful thing about children. They forgive and forget so beautifully. We don't always do that as well as parents. We're like, “Bring me the child.” They take off and they forgive. And it's a beautiful example of, “Oh, we made a mistake, and now we worked it out, and we're moving on, and we're happy.”

Kristina  20:32

So reserving the “no”, finding the teachable moments, which is not in the midst of upset, really important as children get a little older and up through their teens into their young adulthood. One of the strategies that I love is to use the phrase, “Make me an offer I can say ‘yes’ to,” right?

Heather  20:57

So a cell phone, right? Oh, that's a big one,

Kristina  21:01

Yeah. Oh man. “You know how much I want to support the things that you're, you know, hoping to acquire, but you need to make me an offer I can say ‘yes’ to.” “Mom, I'm gonna go spend the night at Judy's, and we're gonna go XYZ, until maybe two in the morning.” It's like, “Oh, that sounds like so much fun. I'd love to say ‘yes,’ but you need to make me an offer I can say ‘yes’ to” and it puts it back on the child, right? To think through, “Hmm…” because lots of times they know they've asked us something completely unreasonable. 

Heather  21:39

Yeah, right. And instead of saying “no,” they're gonna try it. I mean, mad props. Give it a try. You don't ask, you don't get see if you can get away with it today.

Kristina  21:43

But instead of just saying, “No, you're not going to do that,” you say, “Make me an offer I can say ‘yes,’ to.” Give them the opportunity to rethink it, to formulate a plan that is something that to create their own boundaries.

Heather  21:57

Yes, that are rooted in what you've taught them. It's a lovely way to see what they've taken in and have them get themselves to a reasonable place.

Kristina  22:08

So another little strategy, “Make me an offer I can say ‘yes’ to.” 

Heather  22:14

Another one that I really like is “it's just the right thing to do.” “But why? Why do I have to do that? It's okay. Nobody cares. They don't care.” “It's just the right thing to do.” And that can be used in a variety of different situations. And it really goes back to your foundations and what you value as a family, and it's not laced with guilt. But there is such a thing as right and wrong, and “we believe that and it's just the right thing to do,” is a good way to just kind of remind them that this is what we're going to do. 

Kristina  22:49

Yep, my brother has a choir concert, and I don't want to go. And so the parent says, “I know you don't want to go. It's the right thing to do. We're going to go. That's what we do for family.” Yep, we show up for each other. It's the right thing to do. So another lovely strategy to use with kiddos who maybe don't want to do what they need to do, what you're asking them to do, is to remind them it's just the right thing to do. Okay, one of my favorites that I want to share before we end things today is the strategy of asked and answered. And Heather, I'd love for you to kind of explain this. I think you do it in a really beautiful way. And whew, is it a nice strategy.

Heather  23:35

It's really, really effective. And it's all about how you introduce it in the tone that you use because we don't want it to get snarky or dismissive, but it really is meant for whining, because whining can grate on all of us, and kids can beg and beg and beg and be pretty relentless. And so Asked and Answered, is one of those things that like anything else, we teach to our kids, so when they're in this place of, “Please, please, can I, can I please spend the night at so and so's? Can I please, please, please, please, please?” It's like, “Sweetheart, we can't do that. I told you, your brother has the choir concert, and we need to go to the choir concert because it's just the right thing to do.” But mom, everybody's going to be there, and I just want to go do that. It's going to be so much more fun.” I understand you want to go to that. It's not going to happen. But asked and answered. You've asked and I have answered.” And when they're real little, you can say, “Look at my face. I have said, ‘No.’ I have answered your question. You're asking again. You've asked, I've answered.” Do you remember what I said? Yeah. Still the same. But, but, but, but, but, Mom, mom, mom. It's just asked and answered. And I think maybe once I did say to my child, “Look at my face. Look at mommy's face. Do I look like I'm a mommy who's gonna change my mind?” No, no, shaking their head. No, no. I'm not. Asked and answered. And then it dies.

Kristina  25:33

And once your child knows this kind of routine-

Heather  25:38

You don't have to teach it every time. Then you just kindly say “asked and answered,”

Kristina  25:45

And you can look them in the face with a really kind, loving look and say, “asked and answered.” It's not like I'm gripping the edge of the sink in the kitchen with, you know, my teeth all clenched saying “asked and answered,” right? Then I've lost my calm. And that's not going to be helpful for anyone. So part of what it does is it eliminates all those words. It is eliminating you as the parent getting hooked, right? Our children throw out opportunities for us to get hooked all the time.

Heather  26:21

And they know when is our weakest moment, because they're with us, and they see us and they observe us. So every kid knows. I used to say to my kids “When I get on the phone,” I mean, we had a rule in my house unless you were vomiting on fire or bleeding you waited until I got off the phone, because it's like they could be engrossed in play, doing the thing they love most, and if that phone rang, they were transported right in front of me, hungry, tired, angry, with a problem, like it all happened right then, because they know when we're distracted. Yes, it wasn't necessarily about the phone ringing. They heard the sound of it, and they were like, opportunity big time. 

Kristina  27:08

Because I always say like, when you're on the phone or at night, like, those are my worst parenting moments. At night, you get anything you want. I don't care what I said during the day. I am tired. If you wake me up in the middle of the night because you want to crawl in bed with crawl in bed with me, come on and just don't allow it. Yes, I just want my sleep. Or if I'm on the phone, it's like, Yes, oh, whatever. “Have another cookie.”

Heather  27:31

And that gets us into trouble. Yep, because that's a system we've set up and created. Our children are just on the receiving end of it, and people think that the child is manipulative. It's like, no, we've just simply reinforced that behavior.

Kristina  27:48

They saw an opportunity. Yep, good for them. Good for them. So when we go back to “asked and answered,” you know, to be able to say to somebody on the phone “Just a minute, asked and answered” to the child, and what will happen? There is a little phase of the asked and answered strategy where they'll ask you a question. You'll answer them. They'll ask again, and then they'll kind of mutter, asked and answered and walk away. It's like, yep, because now they know. 

Heather  28:20

And then you just say, “Oh, sweetie, you're so smart.” My mom saw this in action the first time. I think Ava was maybe five, yeah, and observed, and was like, that's some voodoo man. Like, those are some powerful words. Yep. I never thought of that, but it is a great strategy.

Kristina  28:42

If you're going to use the strategy, make sure that your first answer is the answer that you want to give. So hey, all's fair. You can buy yourself some time. You can say, “Hmm, I need to think about that a minute” when they ask you a question, because if you say “No,” or you say “yes” and then you think, which, this happens a lot for us, is you say no, you can't do that. And then you think yourself, “Well, is it really that big of a deal?” Like, maybe it's fine if she does that. Well, then you have to come back and say, “You know what? I thought about that more. I am okay, if you would like to whatever they asked.” So if you used “asked and answered,” make sure you feel real good about your answer, so that you can stick with it.

Heather  29:30

And that makes sense to return to it. In our house, we had a rule that if you asked one parent and got the answer you didn't want you couldn't go ask the other parent, hoping for a better answer. And if that happened, it was an immediate family meeting. Butts in seats. We're all going to review the rules of the home and make sure we're all on the same page. Because that gets real tricky, and can cause a lot of just really yucky feelings between parents. And that's what we explain to our children, like, “Hey, you can't put this rift between your father and I, because we want to have a good relationship, and we want to be your parents, and we want to all live here in harmony. And when you do that, it undermines something within the family structure. You can't play us against each other.”

Kristina  30:24

Nope, my daughter was – oh, she was like a savant with this, asking Grandma and I love my mother, and she loves me. She loves my daughter. She used the strategy I used as a child when I wanted dessert, like ice cream, and I hadn't really had a very good dinner. And I would say, “But mom, it's ice cream. It just, you know, goes between all the cracks in in between my food.” I hear my mother saying to my daughter, “Yes, you can have ice cream. It just goes all between the little cracks, like, what you- Did you buy that when I was a kid? No. You're selling it to my daughter. And then my mom would look up to me and say, “Oh, is that okay.”

Heather  31:13

A fun position to be in. A great position. I'm gonna be the joy crush.

Kristina  31:21

So we've shared a lot of different strategies today. Try one. Don't try them all at once. It'll be too confusing to you. It'll be too confusing to the child. But pick one and give it a try.

Heather  31:34

It's amazing how quickly you'll see results.

Kristina  31:36

Yes, and we've heard from hundreds of parents over the years about how utilizing these strategies has really shifted the dynamic, the tone, reduced tension, increased the joy. So pick one, any one, and give it a try. Thank you so much for joining us for Gear Up! Adventures In Parenthood. I'm Kristina.

Heather  32:07

And I'm Heather. And we're so grateful to join you on your parenting journey. 

Kristina  32:12

Until next time-

Heather and Kristina

See you on the trails!

Kristina The Gear Up! Adventures In Parenthood podcast is brought to you by the ODC Network in Holland, Michigan. It is produced by Jen Plante Johnson, recorded and edited by Dave Purnell, with original theme music by Dave Purnell.

Heather  32:29

The ODC Network is a non-profit organization that strives to advance outdoor education and conservation in West Michigan. 

Kristina  32:37

Since 2000 the ODC Network has served over a million people through hands on outdoor learning experiences, and conserved thousands of acres of native habitat through restoration and preservation projects. 

Heather  32:50

The ODC Network's vision is building a better community by connecting people land and nature. To learn more and get involved, go to www.ODCNetwork.org.